• 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:15 pm

Scorpius wrote:
discussing drawing nuclear blow to Russia without official Declaration of war, secretly that didn't track down.
tommy1808 wrote:
Russia conducted a WMD attack on the UK without declaration of war, that is:

essentially terrorism in its worst form. :yes:

The rich irony of complaining about a rogue nation launching a WMD attack, without first going through the proper procedure of declaring war, is just totally lost on these guys. I bet when they look in the mirror, they see a stunning blonde instead of the bald reality. :lol:
Image

Is it just me, or is there a certain similarity with these Kids from the Kremlin™. As soon as there is talk of potential retaliation with one nuke, it brings out their total war mentality. Their eyes positively light up in anticipation of all-out Armageddon. :roll:
"we will hunt you down and sink your little island...." <yawn>

And then Scorpius introduces two dream scenarios.
1. "a single launch of ICBMs in Russia or, in the US, will not bring results, as missile DEFENSE systems are able to intercept a single ICBM."
Yep, and the US have a similar system called Patriot. Do you recall Bush's fantastic claims for it's success rate? :lol:
Personally, I would launch one nuke, along with six or seven dummy missiles that would fragment into dozens on re-entry. And if I can think of that as a plan, I'm betting even the dimwits in the Royal Navy can come up with it too. Either that or I'm a fecking genius.

2."the launch area will be tracked by the OSR system immediately at the time of launch, and an anti-submarine group will go there, which is likely to hunt down and destroy the submarine from which the launch was made"
I know this is a.net and generally speaking our expertise is aviation (well, for some of us...) but Scorpius has some very strange ideas about Russian Navy capabilities.
By the time a Navy task force has been assembled and steamed 6000 km towards a launch location, the launch vessel will have also steamed around 6000km in a different direction. It isn't going to just sit there nicely waiting to be found. Except in his dreams. :shakehead:

Besides; Russia may not be able to send a task force to the launch location, if it turns out to be in somebody else's backyard. Personally I'd choose a launch location about 25 miles outside of San Diego. Or maybe the South China Sea. There I go with my genius ideas again.... Good luck sending the Russian Navy to either of those!

.... all carriers of nuclear charges in the world are constantly monitored.

Satellite monitoring - of submarines :lol:
Patrols of anti-submarine aircraft - the Il-38 is one of my favourite a/c, but let's be honest - the Russian AF/Navy can only cover approximately 0.001% of global waters from Russian bases.
Hydroacoustic tracking - great for maintaining contact with a known source, at a cost. And great for defending a home base, like the approaches to Vladivostock harbor. But out in the open ocean? If you are lucky you might pick up a submarine. If you are unlucky you will pick up two submarines. Which one are they going to depth-charge now? Obviously it must be the one where you can hear the crew in the background, celebrating launching a nuke by singing rude naval songs. Yeah, that sounds right.

In reality, it will be even more difficult than proving the origin of a random attack with novichok.
As I recall, anrec80's solution would be for the Russians to gather evidence, and make a case by asking the British to nicely co-operate with the Russian investigation. Once the British have pointed out which of their submarines launched the nuke, the Russians would then have to pursue justice through the British legal system with a trial in a British court. :rotfl:

Sounds quite ludicrous now doesn't it? :banghead:
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
 
Freakysh
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:17 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
discussing drawing nuclear blow to Russia without official Declaration of war, secretly that didn't track down.
tommy1808 wrote:
Russia conducted a WMD attack on the UK without declaration of war, that is:

essentially terrorism in its worst form. :yes:

The rich irony of complaining about a rogue nation launching a WMD attack, without first going through the proper procedure of declaring war, is just totally lost on these guys. I bet when they look in the mirror, they see a stunning blonde instead of the bald reality. :lol:
Image

Is it just me, or is there a certain similarity with these Kids from the Kremlin™. As soon as there is talk of potential retaliation with one nuke, it brings out their total war mentality. Their eyes positively light up in anticipation of all-out Armageddon. :roll:
"we will hunt you down and sink your little island...." <yawn>

And then Scorpius introduces two dream scenarios.
1. "a single launch of ICBMs in Russia or, in the US, will not bring results, as missile DEFENSE systems are able to intercept a single ICBM."
Yep, and the US have a similar system called Patriot. Do you recall Bush's fantastic claims for it's success rate? :lol:
Personally, I would launch one nuke, along with six or seven dummy missiles that would fragment into dozens on re-entry. And if I can think of that as a plan, I'm betting even the dimwits in the Royal Navy can come up with it too. Either that or I'm a fecking genius.

2."the launch area will be tracked by the OSR system immediately at the time of launch, and an anti-submarine group will go there, which is likely to hunt down and destroy the submarine from which the launch was made"
I know this is a.net and generally speaking our expertise is aviation (well, for some of us...) but Scorpius has some very strange ideas about Russian Navy capabilities.
By the time a Navy task force has been assembled and steamed 6000 km towards a launch location, the launch vessel will have also steamed around 6000km in a different direction. It isn't going to just sit there nicely waiting to be found. Except in his dreams. :shakehead:

Besides; Russia may not be able to send a task force to the launch location, if it turns out to be in somebody else's backyard. Personally I'd choose a launch location about 25 miles outside of San Diego. Or maybe the South China Sea. There I go with my genius ideas again.... Good luck sending the Russian Navy to either of those!

.... all carriers of nuclear charges in the world are constantly monitored.

Satellite monitoring - of submarines :lol:
Patrols of anti-submarine aircraft - the Il-38 is one of my favourite a/c, but let's be honest - the Russian AF/Navy can only cover approximately 0.001% of global waters from Russian bases.
Hydroacoustic tracking - great for maintaining contact with a known source, at a cost. And great for defending a home base, like the approaches to Vladivostock harbor. But out in the open ocean? If you are lucky you might pick up a submarine. If you are unlucky you will pick up two submarines. Which one are they going to depth-charge now? Obviously it must be the one where you can hear the crew in the background, celebrating launching a nuke by singing rude naval songs. Yeah, that sounds right.

In reality, it will be even more difficult than proving the origin of a random attack with novichok.
As I recall, anrec80's solution would be for the Russians to gather evidence, and make a case by asking the British to nicely co-operate with the Russian investigation. Once the British have pointed out which of their submarines launched the nuke, the Russians would then have to pursue justice through the British legal system with a trial in a British court. :rotfl:

Sounds quite ludicrous now doesn't it? :banghead:


Oh my :lol:

You make Trump sound like a genius.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:44 pm

Freakysh wrote:
Oh my :lol:

You make Trump sound like a genius.

Please do go on; provide some substance to those personal insults. Don't just leave it there as if you've got nothing to back it up .
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
 
Freakysh
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:07 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Oh my :lol:

You make Trump sound like a genius.

Please do go on; provide some substance to those personal insults. Don't just leave it there as if you've got nothing to back it up .


Why?

Doesn't stop you making accusations without any proof
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:35 am

Dutchy wrote:
1. Su-25 theory is bogus and proven so, no need to believe either way.
2. If you were really interested you would have read the JIT report and you know what evidence there was to support the theory and that you tried to frame it like you do is nothing else we expect from a Putin devotee.
3. BUK launcher itself has probably been shredded by now, probably by the Russian military because they owned the bloody thing.

Don't try to pin it on Ukraine because that record is beginning to sound very old by now and isn't supported by a shred of evidence.


Yes, I have seen that "evidence". It's largely based on Ukrainian Security Service called SBU - quite a "reputable" establishment. This "institution" since 2014 was busy spoofing Internet for anti-war videos and initiating criminal cases against their authors; some were getting hefty prison terms for those. Also - monitoring journalists, poets, writers (some were getting imprisoned or even killed), protest movements and their leaders; fabricating heavy criminal cases against those (e.g. armed coup preparation, separatism, extremism, etc.). This is pretty much as good as this agency gets, and you are trying to engage them into something serious.

Plus, the "black hole" issue is still there. A case where something comes out of a "black hole", shoots and then disappears back - isn't really strong and compelling, agree? If you want it to survive in court, you need to gather and present history of this BUK - where/when it was made, what military division(s) was it registered with, what happened to it immediately before and after the incident.

Ukraine also had BUKs in their military and should be investigated as well. Instead - they are on JIT. And - this kind of "half-ass" investigations are in their (SBU) style. For Ukrainian "court" they work, and for anything else - they will "compensate" that mentioning well known names (Strelkov, Plotnistkiy and a few others, obviously enough having nothing to do with MH-17) and then organizing a massive and aggressive media and lobbying campaign. This of course will not help to find out who is responsible for lives of 200 of your countrymen, but if you want to focus on groundless accusations instead - I can't help that.

All that while actual court case or even investigation itself will be falling apart, just as all British accusations in Skripal case are falling apart now. Scientists said they can't trace the samples to country of origin, and Foreign Office acknowledged their statements are based on simple guesses.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:41 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
But how would you know for sure it was a British nuke, if it was launched from a submarine in international waters anywhere on the planet?


Aren't British trying to set a precedent right now? As of this month, you don't need to know for sure. All you need is to state "highly likely".
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:22 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
1. Su-25 theory is bogus and proven so, no need to believe either way.
2. If you were really interested you would have read the JIT report and you know what evidence there was to support the theory and that you tried to frame it like you do is nothing else we expect from a Putin devotee.
3. BUK launcher itself has probably been shredded by now, probably by the Russian military because they owned the bloody thing.

Don't try to pin it on Ukraine because that record is beginning to sound very old by now and isn't supported by a shred of evidence.


Yes, I have seen that "evidence". It's largely based on Ukrainian Security Service called SBU - quite a "reputable" establishment. This "institution" since 2014 was busy spoofing Internet for anti-war videos and initiating criminal cases against their authors; some were getting hefty prison terms for those. Also - monitoring journalists, poets, writers (some were getting imprisoned or even killed), protest movements and their leaders; fabricating heavy criminal cases against those (e.g. armed coup preparation, separatism, extremism, etc.). This is pretty much as good as this agency gets, and you are trying to engage them into something serious.

Plus, the "black hole" issue is still there. A case where something comes out of a "black hole", shoots and then disappears back - isn't really strong and compelling, agree? If you want it to survive in court, you need to gather and present history of this BUK - where/when it was made, what military division(s) was it registered with, what happened to it immediately before and after the incident.

Ukraine also had BUKs in their military and should be investigated as well. Instead - they are on JIT. And - this kind of "half-ass" investigations are in their (SBU) style. For Ukrainian "court" they work, and for anything else - they will "compensate" that mentioning well known names (Strelkov, Plotnistkiy and a few others, obviously enough having nothing to do with MH-17) and then organizing a massive and aggressive media and lobbying campaign. This of course will not help to find out who is responsible for lives of 200 of your countrymen, but if you want to focus on groundless accusations instead - I can't help that.

All that while actual court case or even investigation itself will be falling apart, just as all British accusations in Skripal case are falling apart now. Scientists said they can't trace the samples to country of origin, and Foreign Office acknowledged their statements are based on simple guesses.


Good to see that you recognize there is more evidence then just social media. The remainder is the usual bla bla bla bla bla.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
Good to see that you recognize there is more evidence then just social media. The remainder is the usual bla bla bla bla bla.

If you notice - I put the word “evidence” in quotes. For a reason of course.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:28 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Good to see that you recognize there is more evidence then just social media. The remainder is the usual bla bla bla bla bla.

If you notice - I put the word “evidence” in quotes. For a reason of course.


So you deny that there is more evidence?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:26 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Russia conducted a WMD attack on the UK without declaration of war, that is:

This is bullshit. Russia has nothing to do with poisoning. If the Russians wanted to kill the spy they killed wouldn't let him go ten years ago.

Russia started the war, they should count their blessings for the rest of the world being so restrained.

That's bullshit, too. If Russia declared war on Britain, Russian troops would already be in London. But neither in London nor in Britain there are no Russian troops. However, if you continue to insist, they will appear there, lol.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15398
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:10 am

Scorpius wrote:
If the Russians wanted to kill the spy they killed wouldn't let him go ten years ago.


Ah, but then they wouldn't have gotten anything in return for letting him go, would they?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
GDB
Posts: 12967
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:58 am

Scorpius wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Russia conducted a WMD attack on the UK without declaration of war, that is:

This is bullshit. Russia has nothing to do with poisoning. If the Russians wanted to kill the spy they killed wouldn't let him go ten years ago.

Russia started the war, they should count their blessings for the rest of the world being so restrained.

That's bullshit, too. If Russia declared war on Britain, Russian troops would already be in London. But neither in London nor in Britain there are no Russian troops. However, if you continue to insist, they will appear there, lol.


He was part of that swap with those 10 deep cover Russian operatives unmasked in the US in 2010, (if you are now going to claim they were some sort of false flag or other BS, explain how they got a heros welcome once back in Russia).
He thought he (and his daughter) were safe since as a now ex spy who has been swapped, as was done numerous times in the Cold War, that is what would happen. They would live out the rest of their lives quietly of no use to any intel agencies in any side.

Even the U-2 pilot shot down over the USSR in 1960 was swapped not long after for a Soviet spy caught in the US, one of the better known cases.
But Putin does not see it like that, the bitter ex KGB man that he is, maybe since his beloved USSR 'lost' the Cold War, maybe he's just a sadist, you've had a few of them high up in the past, like Beria,
Add to that how the Mafia State that Putin's Russia, functions as now.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:28 am

GDB wrote:
He was part of that swap with those 10 deep cover Russian operatives unmasked in the US in 2010, (if you are now going to claim they were some sort of false flag or other BS, explain how they got a heros welcome once back in Russia).
He thought he (and his daughter) were safe since as a now ex spy who has been swapped, as was done numerous times in the Cold War, that is what would happen. They would live out the rest of their lives quietly of no use to any intel agencies in any side.

It would seem - why to wait for this ten years? And specially to carry out an action just before elections in Russia.


Even the U-2 pilot shot down over the USSR in 1960 was swapped not long after for a Soviet spy caught in the US, one of the better known cases.

Перевести вGoogleBingWestern spies in Russia are constantly caught. Their number is no less.Western spies in Russia are constantly caught. Their number is no less.

But Putin does not see it like that, the bitter ex KGB man that he is, maybe since his beloved USSR 'lost' the Cold War, maybe he's just a sadist, you've had a few of them high up in the past, like Beria,
Add to that how the Mafia State that Putin's Russia, functions as now.

I even find it difficult to tell if it's just propaganda lies - or the consequences of your mental disorder?
Such a monstrous shit couldn't have come from a healthy person.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:16 pm

Scorpius wrote:
I even find it difficult to tell if it's just propaganda lies - or the consequences of your mental disorder?
Such a monstrous shit couldn't have come from a healthy person.


See you are back to attacking the person. But I do understand, Scorpius, whom dares to say anything bad of your dear leader?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7569
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:42 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
I even find it difficult to tell if it's just propaganda lies - or the consequences of your mental disorder?
Such a monstrous shit couldn't have come from a healthy person.


See you are back to attacking the person. But I do understand, Scorpius, whom dares to say anything bad of your dear leader?


When you try to defend WMD touting criminals against humanity arguing with facts is out of the question a priori.

Isn´t about half of this threat about the bully fanclub complaining that the victim isn´t just laying down and staying quiet? Well, and a lot like "arguing" with Holocaust deniers....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Freakysh
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:30 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
I even find it difficult to tell if it's just propaganda lies - or the consequences of your mental disorder?
Such a monstrous shit couldn't have come from a healthy person.


See you are back to attacking the person. But I do understand, Scorpius, whom dares to say anything bad of your dear leader?


When you try to defend WMD touting criminals against humanity arguing with facts is out of the question a priori.

Isn´t about half of this threat about the bully fanclub complaining that the victim isn´t just laying down and staying quiet? Well, and a lot like "arguing" with Holocaust deniers....

best regards
Thomas


You. Have. No. Proof. It. Was. The. Russians.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:53 am

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Good to see that you recognize there is more evidence then just social media. The remainder is the usual bla bla bla bla bla.

If you notice - I put the word “evidence” in quotes. For a reason of course.


So you deny that there is more evidence?


Some things are there - some investigators might talked to locals (the latter people are also beign referred to as "Russians" - which isn't wrong, they are ethnic Russians mostly). Some pictures. But can we use the word "evidence" when applied to these things without quotes - we are yet to see.
 
salttee
Posts: 2126
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:11 am

Freakysh wrote:
You. Have. No. Proof. It. Was. The. Russians.

What is so difficult to understand about this?

Yet. it. was. the. Russians. who did. it.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:22 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
I even find it difficult to tell if it's just propaganda lies - or the consequences of your mental disorder?
Such a monstrous shit couldn't have come from a healthy person.


See you are back to attacking the person. But I do understand, Scorpius, whom dares to say anything bad of your dear leader?


When you try to defend WMD touting criminals against humanity arguing with facts is out of the question a priori.

Isn´t about half of this threat about the bully fanclub complaining that the victim isn´t just laying down and staying quiet? Well, and a lot like "arguing" with Holocaust deniers....

best regards
Thomas


Thomas, good enough blaming Russians. Porton Down lab didn't find any connections with Russia. Foreign Office was forced to admit they made this judgement based on assumptions, without any evidence. All there is is just "high probability". The whole Skripal story is just falling apart and has already shown to be totally groundless. Have you also considered stopping blames for it?
 
Freakysh
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:11 am

salttee wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
You. Have. No. Proof. It. Was. The. Russians.

What is so difficult to understand about this?

Yet. it. was. the. Russians. who did. it.
What is so difficult to understand about that?


It's difficult to understand because you. Have. No. Proof. They. Did. It.


Regardless of what you think about Russia, you should be concerned that these claims are being made with nothing to back them up.

This attitude of end justifies the means on here is wrong and certainly not what a liberal person should be advocating
 
salttee
Posts: 2126
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:16 am

Freakysh wrote:
It's difficult to understand because you. Have. No. Proof. They. Did. It.

Who do you think I have to prove it to? -- A. Troll. On. the. Internet???

LOL
 
Freakysh
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:19 am

salttee wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
It's difficult to understand because you. Have. No. Proof. They. Did. It.

Who do you think I have to prove it to? -- A. Troll. On. the. Internet???

LOL


No. I don't need you to prove it to me. You couldn't prove it even if you wanted to.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:47 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
If you notice - I put the word “evidence” in quotes. For a reason of course.


So you deny that there is more evidence?


Some things are there - some investigators might talked to locals (the latter people are also beign referred to as "Russians" - which isn't wrong, they are ethnic Russians mostly). Some pictures. But can we use the word "evidence" when applied to these things without quotes - we are yet to see.


Your use of quotes is ridiculous.

So you recognize there is more evidence, it takes a while, but we are there.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:56 am

anrec80 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

See you are back to attacking the person. But I do understand, Scorpius, whom dares to say anything bad of your dear leader?


When you try to defend WMD touting criminals against humanity arguing with facts is out of the question a priori.

Isn´t about half of this threat about the bully fanclub complaining that the victim isn´t just laying down and staying quiet? Well, and a lot like "arguing" with Holocaust deniers....

best regards
Thomas


Thomas, good enough blaming Russians. Porton Down lab didn't find any connections with Russia. Foreign Office was forced to admit they made this judgement based on assumptions, without any evidence. All there is is just "high probability". The whole Skripal story is just falling apart and has already shown to be totally groundless. Have you also considered stopping blames for it?


Can we expect an even more harsh response from you when dealing with the total baseless accusations of your foreign ministry against Great Brittain, Czech Republic, Slovakia, the United States or Sweden?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7569
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:57 am

anrec80 wrote:
All there is is just "high probability".


you are the guy that advocated nuking the UK without any evidance whatsoever, so your opinion is mighty irrelevant to this discussion.

Porton Down lab didn't find any connections with Russia. Foreign Office was forced to admit they made this judgement based on assumptions, without any evidence.


try not lying so damn much, they didn´t say anything even remotely like that.

Aitkenhead said: “We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify it was a military-grade nerve agent. We have not verified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific information to the government, who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions that they have come to.”

He said the location of manufacture could be established through “a number of different input sources which the government has access to”, adding: “Scientific evidence is only one of those sources.”


As much as you would want them to, they won´t provide sources and methods just to have Russia make up more utterly baseless conspiracy theories. They got all the evidence they need, and historically a Russian denial is as good as a confession.

Time for May to put a price on Putins head.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:55 pm

I watched the UN Security Council meeting last night. Thought the 40min Russian speech was farcical. Covering everything from Midsummer Murders to asking what happened to the Skripal's pets. And then last night on Russian TV was an alleged conversation between the daughter and a relative. Most Bizarre. Certainly came across as a rant on any and everything. At one point even threatening the UK saying "you will be sorry". What the hell..it's the UN!

In contrast the UK representative was very clear in exactly why words have been used (i.e highly likely) in a British legal context is the highest level of certainty you can give without a judge, also indicating there was other evidence that they were not prepared to release at this time and above all restating the completely obvious fact that there is a Police investigation in progress and the facts will be released once this is complete. All members except Russia agreed the UK was in complete compliance with regulations surrounding the investigation of the use of a chemical weapons on their soil. Russia again complained it was being refused consular access, however the UK confirmed it had passed on the request and that no reply had been given from the Skripal's, and it was said clearly how their wishes must also be taken into account. If they have been told that it is suspected Russia attempted to murder them I would think the answer will be no. Mine would be, and would include a few choice swear words for good measure.

I thought it extremely concerning Russia tried the day before at the Hague to be added to the countries involved in the investigation. How would that make it impartial?

People have no patience anymore or understanding of how international legal procedures should be carried out. All answers must immediately be released and if not then you have no proof. I don't know who did it, but you can bet I have a damn slight more faith in the UK / EU position than what Russia is doing right now. It's not acting like it's completely innocent.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15398
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:46 pm

With Yulia making a good recovery and Sergei Skripal now no longer in a critical condition, it appears that this time Russia's assassins were incompetent.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:32 am

scbriml wrote:
With Yulia making a good recovery and Sergei Skripal now no longer in a critical condition, it appears that this time Russia's assassins were incompetent.


Look - even British Foreign Office said they have no proof of any ties to Russia of all this. That just means that whoever did this probably took some shortcuts in making the substance, and ti turned out to be nowhere as strong. I admire that even their cats survived this. Which makes this whole thing sound like an even shadier story.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:38 am

Reinhardt wrote:
In contrast the UK representative was very clear in exactly why words have been used (i.e highly likely) in a British legal context is the highest level of certainty you can give without a judge, also indicating there was other evidence that they were not prepared to release at this time and above all restating the completely obvious fact that there is a Police investigation in progress and the facts will be released once this is complete.
People have no patience anymore or understanding of how international legal procedures should be carried out. All answers must immediately be released and if not then you have no proof. I don't know who did it, but you can bet I have a damn slight more faith in the UK / EU position than what Russia is doing right now. It's not acting like it's completely innocent.


Look - "highly likely" does not even imply "I have a proof". It states rather opposite - these clauses imply "I do not want to prove it, and want you to just believe me". The whole story of British side (pets remaining alive, statement of the lab that they can't associate the origin, no other evidence shown) just keeps falling apart. Yes, they will keep making noise for as long as they can - if British leadership loses this one, careers of Therese May and Boris Johnson are done for good. And we should just take it at that - British came with absolutely groundless accusations.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:48 am

tommy1808 wrote:
you are the guy that advocated nuking the UK without any evidance whatsoever, so your opinion is mighty irrelevant to this discussion.

OK - precedent legal system is British invention. Once they want the whole world to buy their "highly likely" statements at their face value - why they believe they can't be nuked and sunk on the same "highly likely" grounds? And why in that case everyone else has to prove their statements against them?

Aitkenhead said: “We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify it was a military-grade nerve agent. We have not verified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific information to the government, who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions that they have come to.”

tommy1808 wrote:
He said the location of manufacture could be established through “a number of different input sources which the government has access to”, adding: “Scientific evidence is only one of those sources.”

What else can they say? The statement here is "we cannot provide proof of ties of this thing to Russia, and we do not want to be responsible for other BS that was said aloud". Nobody has shown any other evidence though.

tommy1808 wrote:
As much as you would want them to, they won´t provide sources and methods just to have Russia make up more utterly baseless conspiracy theories.

If they don't have any other proof - of course they won't. They will just continue this media campaign for as long as they can, until they can switch public (read: yours) attention to something else - to avoid getting reputation of simple windbags. Look at other nations - nobody outside of West buys these things at their face value.

tommy1808 wrote:
They got all the evidence they need, and historically a Russian denial is as good as a confession.

Then where's this evidence? How come nobody presents it to anyone anywhere? Last thing that was marketed as "evidence" was 5 slides with just as unproven list of "Russian sins". Nobody has seen anything else since. And - denial as good as confession - what kind of justice is this? When someone denies something - don't you need to present the story, as opposed to coming up with such "makings of justice"?
 
Freakysh
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:43 pm

anrec80 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
you are the guy that advocated nuking the UK without any evidance whatsoever, so your opinion is mighty irrelevant to this discussion.

OK - precedent legal system is British invention. Once they want the whole world to buy their "highly likely" statements at their face value - why they believe they can't be nuked and sunk on the same "highly likely" grounds? And why in that case everyone else has to prove their statements against them?

Aitkenhead said: “We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify it was a military-grade nerve agent. We have not verified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific information to the government, who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions that they have come to.”

tommy1808 wrote:
He said the location of manufacture could be established through “a number of different input sources which the government has access to”, adding: “Scientific evidence is only one of those sources.”

What else can they say? The statement here is "we cannot provide proof of ties of this thing to Russia, and we do not want to be responsible for other BS that was said aloud". Nobody has shown any other evidence though.

tommy1808 wrote:
As much as you would want them to, they won´t provide sources and methods just to have Russia make up more utterly baseless conspiracy theories.

If they don't have any other proof - of course they won't. They will just continue this media campaign for as long as they can, until they can switch public (read: yours) attention to something else - to avoid getting reputation of simple windbags. Look at other nations - nobody outside of West buys these things at their face value.

tommy1808 wrote:
They got all the evidence they need, and historically a Russian denial is as good as a confession.

Then where's this evidence? How come nobody presents it to anyone anywhere? Last thing that was marketed as "evidence" was 5 slides with just as unproven list of "Russian sins". Nobody has seen anything else since. And - denial as good as confession - what kind of justice is this? When someone denies something - don't you need to present the story, as opposed to coming up with such "makings of justice"?


Geez anrec, questioning non sensical posts.

You must be a troll! :lol:

I do feel a bit guilty being in here using posts by the likes of Thomas as entertainment. I tell myself these people are just taking the piss and can't really be that deluded.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:07 pm

anrec80 wrote:
. I admire that even their cats survived this. Which makes this whole thing sound like an even shadier story.


How does that make it shadier?

At the end of the day, people and things do survive the most remarkable things. Take the head engineer at Chernobyl. Survived being exposed to high doses of radiation, on top of surviving a high dose of radiation in a shipyard accident during the construction of a nuclear powered vessel years before.

Call it fate, good luck, whatever.

What about the people who survived JAL 123 smashing into a mountain? Is that shady?
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:17 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
In contrast the UK representative was very clear in exactly why words have been used (i.e highly likely) in a British legal context is the highest level of certainty you can give without a judge, also indicating there was other evidence that they were not prepared to release at this time and above all restating the completely obvious fact that there is a Police investigation in progress and the facts will be released once this is complete.
People have no patience anymore or understanding of how international legal procedures should be carried out. All answers must immediately be released and if not then you have no proof. I don't know who did it, but you can bet I have a damn slight more faith in the UK / EU position than what Russia is doing right now. It's not acting like it's completely innocent.


Look - "highly likely" does not even imply "I have a proof". It states rather opposite - these clauses imply "I do not want to prove it, and want you to just believe me". The whole story of British side (pets remaining alive, statement of the lab that they can't associate the origin, no other evidence shown) just keeps falling apart. Yes, they will keep making noise for as long as they can - if British leadership loses this one, careers of Therese May and Boris Johnson are done for good. And we should just take it at that - British came with absolutely groundless accusations.


Nice framing, Anrec, one of your best work!

Just wait till the investigation is over and I am sure you will never admit Russia was behind it, just like with MH17, Eastern Ukraine mess, the annexation of Crimea etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Too many incidents to name here.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
GDB
Posts: 12967
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:56 pm

Scorpius wrote:
GDB wrote:
He was part of that swap with those 10 deep cover Russian operatives unmasked in the US in 2010, (if you are now going to claim they were some sort of false flag or other BS, explain how they got a heros welcome once back in Russia).
He thought he (and his daughter) were safe since as a now ex spy who has been swapped, as was done numerous times in the Cold War, that is what would happen. They would live out the rest of their lives quietly of no use to any intel agencies in any side.

It would seem - why to wait for this ten years? And specially to carry out an action just before elections in Russia.


Even the U-2 pilot shot down over the USSR in 1960 was swapped not long after for a Soviet spy caught in the US, one of the better known cases.

Перевести вGoogleBingWestern spies in Russia are constantly caught. Their number is no less.Western spies in Russia are constantly caught. Their number is no less.

But Putin does not see it like that, the bitter ex KGB man that he is, maybe since his beloved USSR 'lost' the Cold War, maybe he's just a sadist, you've had a few of them high up in the past, like Beria,
Add to that how the Mafia State that Putin's Russia, functions as now.

I even find it difficult to tell if it's just propaganda lies - or the consequences of your mental disorder?
Such a monstrous shit couldn't have come from a healthy person.


Thanks for the faux 'concern', really shows you have no real counter argument.
Or even a clue about the subject being discussed, either by the current events or their historical context.
It is a nice analogy with all the waves of BS and conspiracy crap the Russian State itself is putting out in regards to this event and others, like MH17.
Rather like a suspect bering interrogated by Police (in a Western Democracy that is, not Putin's mafia State), when faced with damning evidence, often they start weaving stories and/or try to blame others, or say they are being 'fitted up', or often just say 'no comment' to any question. Ironically it would not look any worse for Russia if they used the no comment tactic than it already does. If only you were bright enough to get that.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Nice framing, Anrec, one of your best work!

Just wait till the investigation is over and I am sure you will never admit Russia was behind it, just like with MH17, Eastern Ukraine mess, the annexation of Crimea etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Too many incidents to name here.


Ok - so you still believe it’s OK to blame someone before even an investigation has started? Yes, there are too many incidents. Did you not come to think that everything West has done in the last 15 years just falls apart, is broken or an outright disaster? Iraq - well, we are in agreement on this one. Afghanistan - zero success. Libya - refugees. Syria - refugees plus pretty humiliating for West political defeat, where a major crisis is being resolved without regards to their opinion at all. Ukraine - West-sponsored Maidan led to a disaster for a poor country. What else did I not mention?
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:26 pm

GDB wrote:
Rather like a suspect bering interrogated by Police (in a Western Democracy that is, not Putin's mafia State), when faced with damning evidence, often they start weaving stories and/or try to blame others, or say they are being 'fitted up', or often just say 'no comment' to any question. Ironically it would not look any worse for Russia if they used the no comment tactic than it already does. If only you were bright enough to get that.


Listen - where is this “damping evidence”? Are you talking of those 5 pages?
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:43 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Nice framing, Anrec, one of your best work!

Just wait till the investigation is over and I am sure you will never admit Russia was behind it, just like with MH17, Eastern Ukraine mess, the annexation of Crimea etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Too many incidents to name here.


Ok - so you still believe it’s OK to blame someone before even an investigation has started? Yes, there are too many incidents. Did you not come to think that everything West has done in the last 15 years just falls apart, is broken or an outright disaster? Iraq - well, we are in agreement on this one. Afghanistan - zero success. Libya - refugees. Syria - refugees plus pretty humiliating for West political defeat, where a major crisis is being resolved without regards to their opinion at all. Ukraine - West-sponsored Maidan led to a disaster for a poor country. What else did I not mention?


Whataboutism all the way.

In many incidents, Russias role is proven and thus a fact. You still believe it's OK to deny anything and try to defend all the wrongdoings by your Putin regime?

Normally people/ countries/regimes get the benefit of the doubt, Russia has proven that they are not worth it, so they don't get that. Why is it so hard to understand that? Russia / Putin's regime needs to prove to the word that they are playing at their level, so they don't do these kinds of things anymore, then they get the benefit of the doubt again. They need to earn this again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15398
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:29 pm

anrec80 wrote:
GDB wrote:
Listen - where is this “damping evidence”? Are you talking of those 5 pages?


The most astonishing thing about this whole episode is that a.net keyboard warriors expect to be privy to highly sensitive government intelligence information. :rotfl:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:15 am

scbriml wrote:

The most astonishing thing about this whole episode is that a.net keyboard warriors expect to be privy to highly sensitive government intelligence information. :rotfl:


What's this "highly sensitive intelligence"? All this "highly sensitive intelligence" was Boris Johnson "got strong impression from Porton Down scientists". Nothing else. And later Porton Down guys of course didn't want to get associated with any of that. The British story falls apart, dude. Just take it at that.
 
anrec80
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:25 am

Dutchy wrote:
Whataboutism all the way.

In many incidents, Russias role is proven and thus a fact. You still believe it's OK to deny anything and try to defend all the wrongdoings by your Putin regime?

Normally people/ countries/regimes get the benefit of the doubt, Russia has proven that they are not worth it, so they don't get that. Why is it so hard to understand that? Russia / Putin's regime needs to prove to the word that they are playing at their level, so they don't do these kinds of things anymore, then they get the benefit of the doubt again. They need to earn this again.


This is not what-aboutism Dutchy. This is track record of failures. And quite impressive one. These leaders just can't predict what's gonna be next out of what they are doing, repeating same huge and disastrous mistakes over again, and looking for someone to blame. No successes or achievements to show off either, unfortunately. This just got old and stopped looking any good Dutchy.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7569
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:30 am

anrec80 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

The most astonishing thing about this whole episode is that a.net keyboard warriors expect to be privy to highly sensitive government intelligence information. :rotfl:


What's this "highly sensitive intelligence"?


The overwhelming evidence that convinced over 20 governments, that are trustworthy enough that they share such information with to some degree or another, to kick out Russian spies en mass, but that would unfortunately reveal sources and methods, so ain´t for public consumption.

The lame deflections coming from the Kremlin lack any substance and pretty much proof that the UK governments assessment can be taken to the bank.Over 20 governments are more than the average Jury size, for all practical purposes Russia was charged and convicted, because no one in the Jury of probably hundreds and hundreds of involved officials from left to right on the political spectrum had any reasonable doubt left. And it must have been overwhelming enough to make that decision rather quickly.

Defending Russia in this case is like claiming OJ didn´t murder his wife..... ridiculous. Not that believing Russia´s dementi has ever made sense, after all they claimed for over a year that no Russian troops where in Ukraine until Putin finally admitted they where.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:31 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Whataboutism all the way.

In many incidents, Russias role is proven and thus a fact. You still believe it's OK to deny anything and try to defend all the wrongdoings by your Putin regime?

Normally people/ countries/regimes get the benefit of the doubt, Russia has proven that they are not worth it, so they don't get that. Why is it so hard to understand that? Russia / Putin's regime needs to prove to the word that they are playing at their level, so they don't do these kinds of things anymore, then they get the benefit of the doubt again. They need to earn this again.


This is not what-aboutism Dutchy. This is track record of failures. And quite impressive one. These leaders just can't predict what's gonna be next out of what they are doing, repeating same huge and disastrous mistakes over again, and looking for someone to blame. No successes or achievements to show off either, unfortunately. This just got old and stopped looking any good Dutchy.


Classic whataboutism and denial by a Russian troll. That's why we love your "contributions", Anrec.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15398
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 am

anrec80 wrote:
What's this "highly sensitive intelligence"? All this "highly sensitive intelligence" was Boris Johnson "got strong impression from Porton Down scientists". Nothing else. And later Porton Down guys of course didn't want to get associated with any of that. The British story falls apart, dude. Just take it at that.


Either you're very good at feigning innocence or you are the most naive person on the planet. I can't help you if you chose to wilfully ignore what's already been posted in this very thread.

tommy1808 wrote:
The overwhelming evidence that convinced over 20 governments, that are trustworthy enough that they share such information with to some degree or another, to kick out Russian spies en mass, but that would unfortunately reveal sources and methods, so ain´t for public consumption.


Hmmm. :scratchchin:

Why would anyone dislike a regime that uses WMD to attempt to assassinate its enemies overseas and also supports another regime that uses WMDs against its own people?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:36 am

GDB wrote:

Thanks for the faux 'concern', really shows you have no real counter argument.
Or even a clue about the subject being discussed, either by the current events or their historical context.
It is a nice analogy with all the waves of BS and conspiracy crap the Russian State itself is putting out in regards to this event and others, like MH17.
Rather like a suspect bering interrogated by Police (in a Western Democracy that is, not Putin's mafia State), when faced with damning evidence, often they start weaving stories and/or try to blame others, or say they are being 'fitted up', or often just say 'no comment' to any question. Ironically it would not look any worse for Russia if they used the no comment tactic than it already does. If only you were bright enough to get that.


Well, first of all, stop telling that shit.

Today we have the following fact: the citizen of Russia Yulia Skripal is kidnapped, about her location there is no information. Employees of the Russian Consulate were not granted access to it. We don't even know if she's alive or what condition she's in.
Russia has considerable reason to believe that the attempt on Julia Skripal and her father was set up by British or American intelligence agencies.
All the hysterical accusations of Russia in an event arranged for the distraction.
At the same time, just the day before yesterday, the Israeli air force, invading Lebanese airspace, launched a missile attack on the territory of another independent state - Syria.
No sanctions have yet been imposed on Israel, despite the fact that this is not the first case of illegal Israeli actions in the region.

At the same time on the territory of Syria is not the first year ILLEGAL missle and bomb strikes of the international coalition led by the United States.
Let me remind you that the only military that is legally present in Syria are the Syrian government forces and the Russian air force, which are officially invited there to assist the Syrian government.

At the same time, the totalitarian regimes of the United States and the West are trying to distract the attention of the international community with the help of murders and terrorist attacks, which accuse Russia. MH17 was shot down at the direction of the Pentagon - specifically to impose sanctions against Russia. Oleg Skripal and his daughter were poisoned just before the world Cup in Russia and a week before the elections in Russia. There is no doubt that only Western regimes could benefit from these actions.

Western cannibal regimes must be destroyed, because they have brought too much suffering to this world.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7569
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:53 am

Scorpius wrote:
Employees of the Russian Consulate were not granted access to it. We don't even know if she's alive or what condition she's in.


and Russia would have the right to that information how exactly?? There is none.

Yulia Skripal as a Russian citizen has the right to contact her consulate, but if she chooses not to, that is her decision and her alone. Russian citizens are just that, citizens, they are not subjects or property.

There is no reason for her to ever talk to the government that ordered and tried to carry out her murder. It is most likely her desire that no Russian or person talking to Russians ever hears anything about her whereabouts ever again. After all she needs to be protected from a Regime that uses WMDs without even bothering to declare war.

Today we have the following fact: the citizen of Russia Yulia Skripal is kidnapped


hasn´t happened, and is as far removed from being a fact as anything can be.

At the same time on the territory of Syria is not the first year ILLEGAL missle and bomb strikes of the international coalition led by the United States.


It is always legal to stop crimes against humanity, these are carried out with support of the empire of evil: Russia.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
GDB
Posts: 12967
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:29 am

Scorpius wrote:
GDB wrote:

Thanks for the faux 'concern', really shows you have no real counter argument.
Or even a clue about the subject being discussed, either by the current events or their historical context.
It is a nice analogy with all the waves of BS and conspiracy crap the Russian State itself is putting out in regards to this event and others, like MH17.
Rather like a suspect bering interrogated by Police (in a Western Democracy that is, not Putin's mafia State), when faced with damning evidence, often they start weaving stories and/or try to blame others, or say they are being 'fitted up', or often just say 'no comment' to any question. Ironically it would not look any worse for Russia if they used the no comment tactic than it already does. If only you were bright enough to get that.


Well, first of all, stop telling that shit.

Today we have the following fact: the citizen of Russia Yulia Skripal is kidnapped, about her location there is no information. Employees of the Russian Consulate were not granted access to it. We don't even know if she's alive or what condition she's in.
Russia has considerable reason to believe that the attempt on Julia Skripal and her father was set up by British or American intelligence agencies.
All the hysterical accusations of Russia in an event arranged for the distraction.
At the same time, just the day before yesterday, the Israeli air force, invading Lebanese airspace, launched a missile attack on the territory of another independent state - Syria.
No sanctions have yet been imposed on Israel, despite the fact that this is not the first case of illegal Israeli actions in the region.

At the same time on the territory of Syria is not the first year ILLEGAL missle and bomb strikes of the international coalition led by the United States.
Let me remind you that the only military that is legally present in Syria are the Syrian government forces and the Russian air force, which are officially invited there to assist the Syrian government.

At the same time, the totalitarian regimes of the United States and the West are trying to distract the attention of the international community with the help of murders and terrorist attacks, which accuse Russia. MH17 was shot down at the direction of the Pentagon - specifically to impose sanctions against Russia. Oleg Skripal and his daughter were poisoned just before the world Cup in Russia and a week before the elections in Russia. There is no doubt that only Western regimes could benefit from these actions.

Western cannibal regimes must be destroyed, because they have brought too much suffering to this world.


Oh the irony! 'Shit' indeed. Well as others have stated, over 20, nearer 30 actually nations, think the most rational explanation is that the UK is riight, enough to take action of their own.
So your brain farts don't really count for anything.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:59 am

All right I call bullshit on everything:

Scorpius wrote:
Well, first of all, stop telling that shit.

What shit?

Scorpius wrote:
Today we have the following fact: the citizen of Russia Yulia Skripal is kidnapped, about her location there is no information.


Proof?

Scorpius wrote:
Employees of the Russian Consulate were not granted access to it.


Proof?

Scorpius wrote:
We don't even know if she's alive or what condition she's in.


Why do you need to know this? Not public knowledge.

Scorpius wrote:
Russia has considerable reason to believe that the attempt on Julia Skripal and her father was set up by British or American intelligence agencies.


Proof? Based on what exactly. Firstly it was Sweden and a number of other countries, now it is Britain of America. Again Russia's story is spinning more than a dancer. And why did they do this? This was a Russian whom turned understandably on the Russian regime and helped America and Brittain, why would they murder him with a WMD endangering their own citizens?

Scorpius wrote:
All the hysterical accusations of Russia in an event arranged for the distraction.


Proof, a distraction of what?

Scorpius wrote:
At the same time, just the day before yesterday, the Israeli air force, invading Lebanese airspace, launched a missile attack on the territory of another independent state - Syria.


Whataboutism, this is about the attempted murder by the Russian state, not about Israel. And you are fine with invading another state: Ukraine and a number of other independent states, so you are being hypocritical. But what's new about that attitude of yours.

Scorpius wrote:
No sanctions have yet been imposed on Israel, despite the fact that this is not the first case of illegal Israeli actions in the region.


Whataboutism....

Scorpius wrote:
At the same time on the territory of Syria is not the first year ILLEGAL missle and bomb strikes of the international coalition led by the United States.
Let me remind you that the only military that is legally present in Syria are the Syrian government forces and the Russian air force, which are officially invited there to assist the Syrian government.


Syria supposed to get rid of all their nerve gasses and Russia played a role in that as well. Alais, another lie from Russia and the Assad regime.

Scorpius wrote:
At the same time, the totalitarian regimes of the United States and the West are trying to distract the attention of the international community with the help of murders and terrorist attacks, which accuse Russia.


Proof of totalitarian regimes in the west and the US. Or should I stop talking to you now you insulted yet again the west :lol:

Scorpius wrote:
MH17 was shot down at the direction of the Pentagon - specifically to impose sanctions against Russia.


Proof? There is proof of Russia's involvement, none of the Pentagon, but please enlighten us......

Scorpius wrote:
Oleg Skripal and his daughter were poisoned just before the world Cup in Russia and a week before the elections in Russia. There is no doubt that only Western regimes could benefit from these actions.


I doubt it, so yet again a lie, there is doubt. :lol:

But perhaps you could explain how exactly the west benifited from this attempted murder in relation to the stolen World Cup and the re-election of Putin?

Scorpius wrote:
Western cannibal regimes must be destroyed, because they have brought too much suffering to this world.


Again, you yet display a lot of anger towards the west and yet again want to destroy it. Nobody says the same about Russia. You are the aggressor, nobody else.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:12 pm

GDB wrote:
Oh the irony! 'Shit' indeed. Well as others have stated, over 20, nearer 30 actually nations, think the most rational explanation is that the UK is riight, enough to take action of their own.
So your brain farts don't really count for anything.


Very funny to see the justification of the crimes of Western regimes cannibalistic in the spirit of "johnny and I decided that your wallet belongs to us - you see, it means that you have to give us your purse!"

Almost all countries that expelled Russian diplomats reported that they did so under great diplomatic pressure from the United States and England. At the same time, some of these countries were limited to nominal measures, it is enough to see the list of countries that have sent less than 3 diplomats:
USA-60
great Britain-23
Ukraine-13
Germany-4
France-4
Poland-4
Canada-4
Lithuania-3
Czech Republic-3
Moldova-3
Italy-2
Spain-2
Denmark-2
Netherlands-2
Albania-2
Australia-2
Latvia-1
Romania-1
Croatia-1
Hungary-1
Estonia-1
Sweden-1
Finland-1
Macedonia-1
Norway-1
Ireland-1
Belgium-1
Luxembourg-1
Montenegro-1
Georgia-1

Twenty countries out of thirty have expelled two or fewer diplomats, indicating that this is done only nominally.

at the same time
Austria
Slovakia
new Zealand
Bulgaria
Cyprus
Greece
Malta
Portugal
Slovenia
Serbia
refused to expel Russian diplomats.

In the remaining 211 countries of the world did not even raise the issue of the expulsion of Russian diplomats.
If we compare the number of people - it turns out that 80% of the world's population does not support the policy of Western regimes.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7569
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:36 pm

Scorpius wrote:
She can't do that because she's being held illegally by the British intelligence services.


She isn´t. She is hiding from Putins henchmen. There isn´t even the faintest indication of anything else is the case, and yet you keep spurting lies, while demanding complete and utter public disclosure of intelligence sources and methods before admitting that Russia is behind the attack and lying about it, despite being so obvious that Russia could just as well rent billboards with "Yes, we did it. Of course, who else?".. Just like they lied about SU-25s in the vicinity of MH17, just as they lied about Russian troops in Ukraine or State sponsored doping. Has Russia even one told the truth about anything?

This is yet another blatant lie from tommy 1808


You can call obvious facts lies as long as you can find oxygen to do so.

I recall that the subject of weapons of mass destruction has already served as a cover for the illegal attack on Iraq. Western countries have already covered up their illegal actions with lies, and now they are acting in the same way.


See, you are close to a kernel of truth. Everyone with half a brain-cell and interest in the subject matter knew there where no WMD in Iraq, there was plenty of publicly available expert opinions at them time, up to the actual expert teams in Iraq at the time. There is no such thing for the Russian WMD attack, your analogy just as anything else you state crashes head on into a wall of facts. The only analogy between the two that there are Weapons of mass destruction somewhere in the mix. Another argument of yours that is so terribly bad that the only logical conclusion is that you know perfectly well Russia is behind this act of war.

Hiding behind the false "care for humanity" Western cannibal regimes for centuries oppressed the countries of the world, driving them into colonial slavery, pumping resources out of them.


I never claimed they care the least bit about humanity, i am just pointing out that any nation is perfectly legal in stopping crimes against humanity. What their ultimate goal is in the matter is completely irrelevant. They can and they should put a stop to that.

Any nation that feels the need to intervene, is perfectly fine to do so. Assads accomplices, Russian troops, don´t have to be spared any more than Dutch or Russian SS Troops have when that crime against humanity was finally stopped, and the criminal on top of the food chain got finally wiped of the face of the Earth. Funny how gassing civilians seems to do that trick.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Scorpius
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:40 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
....
best regards
Thomas

As many words in justification of the cannibal policy and lies of the West.
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: B777LRF, bagoldex, BartSimpson, LTenEleven, mmo, moo, sevenair, SOBHI51 and 32 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos