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BlueberryWheats
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Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:36 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43295134

Well, this looks like something out of a movie. Salisbury Hospital in the UK is had to close it's A&E department for decontamination and parts of the town cordoned off.

A man is critically ill after exposure to an unknown substance, that man happens to be an ex-Russian military intelligence colonel who passed secrets to the UK.

Is Russia up to its old Litvenenko tricks again?
 
Kestrel333
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:52 pm

Appears so.

A 30 year old woman has also been hospitalised, having been found with the male.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:54 pm

Cue the usual suspects to deny any Russian involvement, in 3...2...1...
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tu204
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:48 pm

scbriml wrote:
Cue the usual suspects to deny any Russian involvement, in 3...2...1...


If there is Russian involvment, good for those invloved. I don't have much against traitors getting what they deserve :roll:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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scbriml
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:29 pm

tu204 wrote:
If there is Russian involvment, good for those invloved. I don't have much against traitors getting what they deserve :roll:


Then why release him in the first place? Seems pretty incompetent, frankly. :wink2:
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CCGPV
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:39 pm

I wondered why that guy had an umbrella even though it was a sunny day.
I have all day.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:57 pm

CCGPV wrote:
I wondered why that guy had an umbrella even though it was a sunny day.


Yes, they have a proud history of public executions in the UK.
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Route66
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:06 am

tu204 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Cue the usual suspects to deny any Russian involvement, in 3...2...1...


If there is Russian involvment, good for those invloved. I don't have much against traitors getting what they deserve :roll:


So you wouldn't mind if somebody offed Snowden in Moscow?
 
tu204
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:34 am

Route66 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Cue the usual suspects to deny any Russian involvement, in 3...2...1...


If there is Russian involvment, good for those invloved. I don't have much against traitors getting what they deserve :roll:


So you wouldn't mind if somebody offed Snowden in Moscow?


I think he's in St.Petersburg actually.

Although I really do appreciate what he did and the fact that he did it not for the money, but due to his personal beliefs, he is a traitor. I respect him for doing what he thought was right for a just cause, but being a traitor has it's consequences. So the answer is that I would understand it if he was offed, I wouldn't be happy from the fact, but I would understand it.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Route66
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:47 am

tu204 wrote:
Route66 wrote:
tu204 wrote:

If there is Russian involvment, good for those invloved. I don't have much against traitors getting what they deserve :roll:


So you wouldn't mind if somebody offed Snowden in Moscow?


I think he's in St.Petersburg actually.

Although I really do appreciate what he did and the fact that he did it not for the money, but due to his personal beliefs, he is a traitor. I respect him for doing what he thought was right for a just cause, but being a traitor has it's consequences. So the answer is that I would understand it if he was offed, I wouldn't be happy from the fact, but I would understand it.


Fair enough. As long as things are consistent.

What other high profile espionage assassinations have there been?
 
CCGPV
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 am

Route66 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Route66 wrote:

So you wouldn't mind if somebody offed Snowden in Moscow?


I think he's in St.Petersburg actually.

Although I really do appreciate what he did and the fact that he did it not for the money, but due to his personal beliefs, he is a traitor. I respect him for doing what he thought was right for a just cause, but being a traitor has it's consequences. So the answer is that I would understand it if he was offed, I wouldn't be happy from the fact, but I would understand it.


Fair enough. As long as things are consistent.

What other high profile espionage assassinations have there been?


Ames was a bastard. There's lots of dead Russians (among others) because of him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_A ... s_betrayed

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Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:04 am

Sounds like a nerve agent like sarin/vx. At least they keep things fresh by changing it up from polonium tea...
 
ltbewr
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:43 am

Putin and past Russian/USSR leaders and sometimes those of some other countries like recently with North Korea, have a real hatred for anyone who they see as a traitor. Eventually the 'worst' ones will be killed using unusual and painful methods in very public locations that allow the person who does the killing to get away with it very easily.
 
sevenair
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:57 pm

Well. The Russians said they didn't do it. It must be Brexit what done it.
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scbriml
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 pm

sevenair wrote:
Well. The Russians said they didn't do it.


Mystery solved, then!
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zkojq
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Not necessarily relevant, but he has links to Christopher Steele:

Sergei Skripal, the former Russian spy at the centre of an apparent attempted assassination plot in Britain, had links to Christopher Steele.
Skripal passed intelligence to British officials at the same time Steele became MI6’s Kremlin specialist.

The ex-Kremlin spy found unconscious on a bench in Britain almost certainly has links to Christopher Steele, the man who penned the explosive Russia dossier on US President Donald Trump, experts told Business Insider.

Sergei Skripal, who is critically ill in hospital after being exposed to a mystery substance on Sunday, turned double agent in 1995 when he was recruited by the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service, MI6.

Skripal passed information to MI6 agents between 1995 and December 2004, when he was arrested. That was the verdict of a Moscow military court, which sentenced him to 13 years in prison for spying for Britain.

Skripal’s time handing intelligence to Britain overlapped with Steele’s meteoric rise at MI6, where he became the agency’s preeminent expert on Russia. Steele was posted to Moscow for three years from 1990, working undercover as a British diplomat. After returning to London, he continued to work on Russia and “moved in a small world of Kremlin specialists,” according to The Guardian. By 2006, he was head of MI6’s Russia desk.



https://www.businessinsider.com.au/serg ... ?r=US&IR=T

Jouhou wrote:
Sounds like a nerve agent like sarin/vx. At least they keep things fresh by changing it up from polonium tea...

If its true that Putin is approving operations that use crude methods like Sarin to terminate people he doesn't like that, then that definitely crosses a red line. It's one thing to slip polonium or another poison into the victim's tea (or to poke someone in the leg with a poison-laced umbrella), but using a nerve agent like Sarin in a public area is disgustingly irresponsible. Could have killed dozens of innocent civilians. If that is what happens, then it's time for plans to be put in place to knock Putin off. Anyway, the symptoms don't look like Sarin, so this is probably irrelevant.
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Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:18 pm

We already know there's been a trail of dead Russians left in the wake of the dossier. It makes sense.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:52 pm

zkojq wrote:
but using a nerve agent like Sarin in a public area is disgustingly irresponsible. Could have killed dozens of innocent civilians.


The country is run by a KGB thug, who was babysitted by Brezhnev and breastfed by Andropov.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:57 pm

zkojq wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Sounds like a nerve agent like sarin/vx. At least they keep things fresh by changing it up from polonium tea...

If its true that Putin is approving operations that use crude methods like Sarin to terminate people he doesn't like that, then that definitely crosses a red line. It's one thing to slip polonium or another poison into the victim's tea (or to poke someone in the leg with a poison-laced umbrella), but using a nerve agent like Sarin in a public area is disgustingly irresponsible. Could have killed dozens of innocent civilians. If that is what happens, then it's time for plans to be put in place to knock Putin off. Anyway, the symptoms don't look like Sarin, so this is probably irrelevant.

The symptoms don't look like sarin? I'm no expert, so enlighten me.

Meanwhile, it's hardly new news, but since it hasn't been mentioned above;
The 33 year old woman also in hospital is his daughter. They dined at an Italian restaurant and visited a pub.

One British policeman who arrived on the scene is still (today) in hospital in a "serious condition".
Two other British police were treated in hospital for minor symptoms including itchy eyes and wheezing. They have since been released and given the all clear.
And today, two days after the event, another (unrelated) woman has also been admitted to hospital. I accept the possibility this last case could simply be a manifestation of mass hysteria, as in the Morangos com Açúcar (Strawberries with sugar virus).

Assuming that the first police only arrived on the scene several minutes after any attack, since up until then there was no obvious evidence of any "attack", this is worrying.
If it now transpires that a civilian who had no direct contact with the Russians is also affected, when she was merely in the same locale at some point, this is beyond serious.

It took 23 years to nail Gaddafi for his terrorism.
Let's hope Putin & the KGB don't get the same benefit.
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Route66
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:51 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
It took 23 years to nail Gaddafi for his terrorism.


That's working out well.
Last edited by Route66 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wingman
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:52 pm

Leave it to Putin to expose hundreds or thousands of people to the nasty stuff to get his man. Are Russians so hopelessly fucked up as ot be out of guns and bullets these days? Everything the country does is completely half-baked.

Random day to be agreeing with TU-204 though, turn traitor you deserve what you get. But for fuck's sake can't you do it nice and clean like?
 
CCGPV
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:58 pm

wingman wrote:
Leave it to Putin to expose hundreds or thousands of people to the nasty stuff to get his man. Are Russians so hopelessly fucked up as ot be out of guns and bullets these days? Everything the country does is completely half-baked.

Random day to be agreeing with TU-204 though, turn traitor you deserve what you get. But for fuck's sake can't you do it nice and clean like?


Its probably easier to get nerve agents into the UK than a P-96.
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Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:02 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Sounds like a nerve agent like sarin/vx. At least they keep things fresh by changing it up from polonium tea...

If its true that Putin is approving operations that use crude methods like Sarin to terminate people he doesn't like that, then that definitely crosses a red line. It's one thing to slip polonium or another poison into the victim's tea (or to poke someone in the leg with a poison-laced umbrella), but using a nerve agent like Sarin in a public area is disgustingly irresponsible. Could have killed dozens of innocent civilians. If that is what happens, then it's time for plans to be put in place to knock Putin off. Anyway, the symptoms don't look like Sarin, so this is probably irrelevant.

The symptoms don't look like sarin? I'm no expert, so enlighten me.

Meanwhile, it's hardly new news, but since it hasn't been mentioned above;
The 33 year old woman also in hospital is his daughter. They dined at an Italian restaurant and visited a pub.

One British policeman who arrived on the scene is still (today) in hospital in a "serious condition".
Two other British police were treated in hospital for minor symptoms including itchy eyes and wheezing. They have since been released and given the all clear.
And today, two days after the event, another (unrelated) woman has also been admitted to hospital. I accept the possibility this last case could simply be a manifestation of mass hysteria, as in the Morangos com Açúcar (Strawberries with sugar virus).

Assuming that the first police only arrived on the scene several minutes after any attack, since up until then there was no obvious evidence of any "attack", this is worrying.
If it now transpires that a civilian who had no direct contact with the Russians is also affected, when she was merely in the same locale at some point, this is beyond serious.

It took 23 years to nail Gaddafi for his terrorism.
Let's hope Putin & the KGB don't get the same benefit.


It's been confirmed that it was a nerve agent, but won't reveal which while they are investigating. Next prediction of mine, it's something more advanced than sarin, such as vx, if it's critical to the investigation at this time to not reveal the specifics. It would imply a state actor- and as I've mentioned before it's Russian style to leave their mark so it's clear who did it as a warning to others.

Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent perhaps this is in some part Putin showing off Russia's wmd arsenal to accompany the new nukes.
Last edited by Jouhou on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:13 am

Jouhou wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
zkojq wrote:

If its true that Putin is approving operations that use crude methods like Sarin to terminate people he doesn't like that, then that definitely crosses a red line. It's one thing to slip polonium or another poison into the victim's tea (or to poke someone in the leg with a poison-laced umbrella), but using a nerve agent like Sarin in a public area is disgustingly irresponsible. Could have killed dozens of innocent civilians. If that is what happens, then it's time for plans to be put in place to knock Putin off. Anyway, the symptoms don't look like Sarin, so this is probably irrelevant.

The symptoms don't look like sarin? I'm no expert, so enlighten me.

Meanwhile, it's hardly new news, but since it hasn't been mentioned above;
The 33 year old woman also in hospital is his daughter. They dined at an Italian restaurant and visited a pub.

One British policeman who arrived on the scene is still (today) in hospital in a "serious condition".
Two other British police were treated in hospital for minor symptoms including itchy eyes and wheezing. They have since been released and given the all clear.
And today, two days after the event, another (unrelated) woman has also been admitted to hospital. I accept the possibility this last case could simply be a manifestation of mass hysteria, as in the Morangos com Açúcar (Strawberries with sugar virus).

Assuming that the first police only arrived on the scene several minutes after any attack, since up until then there was no obvious evidence of any "attack", this is worrying.
If it now transpires that a civilian who had no direct contact with the Russians is also affected, when she was merely in the same locale at some point, this is beyond serious.

It took 23 years to nail Gaddafi for his terrorism.
Let's hope Putin & the KGB don't get the same benefit.


It's been confirmed that it was a nerve agent, but won't reveal which while they are investigating. Next prediction of mine, it's something more advanced than sarin, such as vx, if it's critical to the investigation at this time to not reveal the specifics. It would imply a state actor- and as I've mentioned before it's Russian style to leave their mark so it's clear who did it as a warning to others.


What non-state actors have access to VX?

Seems like overkill if it were a simple gambling debt, etc.
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WarRI1
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:41 am

Putin follows the old Mafia Doctrine, bury your self behind layers of operatives and they will never get to you. It really helps to have the Russian Army and its weapons at your disposal.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
salttee
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:39 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Putin follows the old Mafia Doctrine, bury your self behind layers of operatives and they will never get to you. It really helps to have the Russian Army and its weapons at your disposal.
This wont go unchallenged forever, and when that time does arrive, Donald Trump will be widely known for his treason.

He will be known as: Treasonous Trump, Melania will be gone: what will become of Ivanka?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:55 am

Seems strange to only give him 13 years in jail if he was a major traitor. And to kill him if he wasn't.
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zkojq
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:59 pm

Jouhou wrote:
It's been confirmed that it was a nerve agent, but won't reveal which while they are investigating. Next prediction of mine, it's something more advanced than sarin, such as vx, if it's critical to the investigation at this time to not reveal the specifics. It would imply a state actor- and as I've mentioned before it's Russian style to leave their mark so it's clear who did it as a warning to others.

Well, I stand corrected then.

Jouhou wrote:
Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent perhaps this is in some part Putin showing off Russia's wmd arsenal to accompany the new nukes.

I think the message is actually to Russians, rather than the West. Putin is telling the army, security services and other relevant players that he will crush any disloyalty.
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Dutchy
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:03 pm

zkojq wrote:
I think the message is actually to Russians, rather than the West. Putin is telling the army, security services and other relevant players that he will crush any disloyalty.


Most things Putin does is for internal purposes. So yeah, most probably you are right. Betray Putin or mother Russia and you will face the consequences.
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FlyingColours
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:02 pm

I think this is just adding fuel to the fire...

State TV and Media warning "Traitors" about coming to the UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43330498

Time to deal with the Russians, the problem is what are we going to do other than write a sternly worded letter... Oh and don't say the UN as they are a waste of space, let's not forget that Russia vetoed the UNSC proposals to punish Russia for MH17...

Phil
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Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:30 am

So weird thing I realized today, Fox news is not reporting this. Why are they not reporting this? Are they protecting the Russians?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:38 am

FlyingColours wrote:
I think this is just adding fuel to the fire...

State TV and Media warning "Traitors" about coming to the UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43330498

Time to deal with the Russians, the problem is what are we going to do other than write a sternly worded letter... Oh and don't say the UN as they are a waste of space, let's not forget that Russia vetoed the UNSC proposals to punish Russia for MH17...

Phil
FlyingColours


Always interesting to see what kind of crap Russian media is reporting. No wonder that we have sect-like thinking within the Russian communities, hearing time and time again that everything that is happening is bad bad {inser country] and Putin is a demi-God with his carefully laid out Soviet-like propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjF2dPdHd7Q
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sevenair
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:28 am

Personally I'm of the opinion that this is a Russian issue for the Russian people. I'm not too bothered if and when they pop one another off but I do take issue with my NHS (it is not the NHS of the world like many of the liberal elite claim it to be) being used and I certainly take issue with weapons being used which have a high propensity for creating collateral damage. This nerve agent being one of them causing serious injury to a policeman and contaminating the local area.

Old fashioned sniper, boobytrapped car, petrol though the letterbox, stabbed with a poisoned umbrella.... Whatever. Just don't put my people at risk. We have enough homegrown jihadis, imported jihadis and jihadis camping out in sangatte ready to drive a truck of peace at us or a firework of peace (TATP usually) without the Rooskies doing this on our turf. I know it's a.net logic to despise the UK (particularly us English) and many are of the opinion that we deserve it but it's a domestic issues for the Russians. Keep it that way.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:08 am

zkojq wrote:
I think the message is actually to Russians, rather than the West. Putin is telling the army, security services and other relevant players that he will crush any disloyalty.


sevenair wrote:
Personally I'm of the opinion that this is a Russian issue for the Russian people. I'm not too bothered if and when they pop one another off


I think you are at least partially misreading it. Do you really think that KGB/FSB officers did/do not know what is at stake and what Motherland is capable of when they cross the Rubicon, figuratively speaking? Getting whacked off is implicit "occupational hazard" associated with such decision. It has always been.
However, the real message of such spectacular murder(s) is for the British, the West in general: "look we can (repeatedly) use WMDs right in the middle of your cities, we don't give a crap about collateral casualties, and there is exactly nothing you can do about it".
Why the target is the UK and not Germany (or France) is also beyond the pale.
I'm not sure what the adequate British response should be, but it should be more than just the princes not travelling to Russia to watch the corrupt WC in football.
 
tu204
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:01 pm

sevenair wrote:
Personally I'm of the opinion that this is a Russian issue for the Russian people. I'm not too bothered if and when they pop one another off but I do take issue with my NHS (it is not the NHS of the world like many of the liberal elite claim it to be) being used and I certainly take issue with weapons being used which have a high propensity for creating collateral damage. This nerve agent being one of them causing serious injury to a policeman and contaminating the local area.

Old fashioned sniper, boobytrapped car, petrol though the letterbox, stabbed with a poisoned umbrella.... Whatever. Just don't put my people at risk. We have enough homegrown jihadis, imported jihadis and jihadis camping out in sangatte ready to drive a truck of peace at us or a firework of peace (TATP usually) without the Rooskies doing this on our turf. I know it's a.net logic to despise the UK (particularly us English) and many are of the opinion that we deserve it but it's a domestic issues for the Russians. Keep it that way.


Then don't harbour crooks and spies from other countries ;)

Although to be honest I am not too fond of innocent people getting hurt because of his stupid decision myself.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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zkojq
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:53 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
zkojq wrote:
I think the message is actually to Russians, rather than the West. Putin is telling the army, security services and other relevant players that he will crush any disloyalty.


I think you are at least partially misreading it. Do you really think that KGB/FSB officers did/do not know what is at stake and what Motherland is capable of when they cross the Rubicon, figuratively speaking? Getting whacked off is implicit "occupational hazard" associated with such decision. It has always been.

That's true.

L410Turbolet wrote:
I'm not sure what the adequate British response should be,

Considering the severity of what's occurred, I think that cancelling airservice agreements between UK and Russia would be merited also. If nothing else, it makes it take longer for perpetrators to return home to the motherland after committing their crime. Stopping the issuance of visas to all Russian Nationals would also be worthwhile.

Confiscating some of the loot that Putin and his cronies have laundered through the Crown Dependencies would be a good start, not that any of the Tories would ever have the balls to do that.

With an affront like this, now is absolutely a time for the Prime Minister to show some of that "Strong & Stable" leadership she was touting at the last election. I can 100% guarantee that she's gonna screw it up.

L410Turbolet wrote:
but it should be more than just the princes not travelling to Russia to watch the corrupt WC in football.

For sure.
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Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:22 pm

Now has been confirmed as a Novichok agent.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:48 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Now has been confirmed as a Novichok agent.


Gosh, I'm shocked to hear confirmation that Russia's dirty hand is all over this. :sarcastic:

As to any meaningful response from the UK, I won't hold my breath.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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cpd
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:58 pm

scbriml wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Now has been confirmed as a Novichok agent.


Gosh, I'm shocked to hear confirmation that Russia's dirty hand is all over this. :sarcastic:

As to any meaningful response from the UK, I won't hold my breath.


Maybe a similar style of retribution inside Russia? Putin won't do anything about it, he will not want to face M.A.D.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:01 pm

cpd wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Now has been confirmed as a Novichok agent.


Gosh, I'm shocked to hear confirmation that Russia's dirty hand is all over this. :sarcastic:

As to any meaningful response from the UK, I won't hold my breath.


Maybe a similar style of retribution inside Russia? Putin won't do anything about it, he will not want to face M.A.D.


Expel 76 Russian diplomats with FSB connections. That would be an appropriate response.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhVaSWYcdyQ
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:04 pm

tu204 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Personally I'm of the opinion that this is a Russian issue for the Russian people. I'm not too bothered if and when they pop one another off but I do take issue with my NHS (it is not the NHS of the world like many of the liberal elite claim it to be) being used and I certainly take issue with weapons being used which have a high propensity for creating collateral damage. This nerve agent being one of them causing serious injury to a policeman and contaminating the local area.

Old fashioned sniper, boobytrapped car, petrol though the letterbox, stabbed with a poisoned umbrella.... Whatever. Just don't put my people at risk. We have enough homegrown jihadis, imported jihadis and jihadis camping out in sangatte ready to drive a truck of peace at us or a firework of peace (TATP usually) without the Rooskies doing this on our turf. I know it's a.net logic to despise the UK (particularly us English) and many are of the opinion that we deserve it but it's a domestic issues for the Russians. Keep it that way.


Then don't harbour crooks and spies from other countries ;)

Although to be honest I am not too fond of innocent people getting hurt because of his stupid decision myself.


So no problem that western agencies go on a killing spree in Russia? This spy was part of a trading deal with Russia, so a lot of people to chose from for western intelligence agencies, if you don't mind that sort of thing.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:01 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Expel 76 Russian diplomats with FSB connections. That would be an appropriate response.


And that will likely be close to the reality. A few expulsions, some sanctions against senior Russian politicians, maybe a tightening of regulations around Russian money in the UK. Not much more.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:09 am

scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Expel 76 Russian diplomats with FSB connections. That would be an appropriate response.


And that will likely be close to the reality. A few expulsions, some sanctions against senior Russian politicians, maybe a tightening of regulations around Russian money in the UK. Not much more.


Form a task force to seize laundered money in the country. That *would* make them being tremble. I'm hoping that's what the US investigation snowballs into.
 
anrec80
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:19 am

Jouhou wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Expel 76 Russian diplomats with FSB connections. That would be an appropriate response.


And that will likely be close to the reality. A few expulsions, some sanctions against senior Russian politicians, maybe a tightening of regulations around Russian money in the UK. Not much more.


Form a task force to seize laundered money in the country. That *would* make them being tremble. I'm hoping that's what the US investigation snowballs into.


Seize laundered money? In Britain? Do you want the whole British finance system to collapse?
 
anrec80
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:24 am

scbriml wrote:
Gosh, I'm shocked to hear confirmation that Russia's dirty hand is all over this. :sarcastic:

As to any meaningful response from the UK, I won't hold my breath.


Don't British need to finish investigation first? They haven't even started it yet. Who used the agent? How did these people got it? In the darknet, you can buy anything now. These agents are being made by ISIS, during the mess of 90s in Russia who knows how much of this stuff went onto black markets. They need to investigate that first, but instead they called on Russian ambassador. As if he can know what gets onto British soil and how. It's British authorities responsibility, not that of Russian ambassador.
 
anrec80
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:37 am

tu204 wrote:
Then don't harbour crooks and spies from other countries ;)

Although to be honest I am not too fond of innocent people getting hurt because of his stupid decision myself.


Agree. What happened to Berezovsky over there? Litvinenko? British is trying to hang off Russia responsibility for their own state's failure. Britain likes taking all sorts of shady dues as this one, and their security services are good enough to realize that each of them comes with a whole trail of just as shady followers. They should stop taking them into their country first.

It's not surprising that all kinds of "mysteries" and "spy movies" happen there. For some reason we aren't hearing about any of this taking place in neighboring Ireland, Netherlands, France, Germany. Only in Britain for some reason. Britain here behaves like a failed state - all sort of garbage gets in there, and someone else is "almost certain to be" at fault.
 
Jouhou
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:37 am

anrec80 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Gosh, I'm shocked to hear confirmation that Russia's dirty hand is all over this. :sarcastic:

As to any meaningful response from the UK, I won't hold my breath.


Don't British need to finish investigation first? They haven't even started it yet. Who used the agent? How did these people got it? In the darknet, you can buy anything now. These agents are being made by ISIS, during the mess of 90s in Russia who knows how much of this stuff went onto black markets. They need to investigate that first, but instead they called on Russian ambassador. As if he can know what gets onto British soil and how. It's British authorities responsibility, not that of Russian ambassador.


Well, the Brits have given the Russians the opportunity to explain how someone else may have gotten a hold of their unique chemical weapons which only Russia knows how to produce. Go ahead, tell us. Who got a hold of those?
 
anrec80
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:48 am

Jouhou wrote:

Well, the Brits have given the Russians the opportunity to explain how someone else may have gotten a hold of their unique chemical weapons which only Russia knows how to produce. Go ahead, tell us. Who got a hold of those?


True, except that British gave the Ambassador 36 hour window. Is someone doing things like this? If they truly need the result - there are international treaties on cooperation between law enforcement agencies, and British investigators can request help of their Russian colleagues to determine WTF this was. But it can be once British investigation has some details, and real results that can lead to finding and jailing those responsible aren't being done in 36 hours. All they can do is achieve yet another media scandal - perhaps this is their priority at this point? But then those responsible will walk away of course - this media noise doesn't help any meaningful investigation.

And why assumptions the agent was of Russian origin? Whole former USSR had stocks and labs with all kinds of fun stuff.
Last edited by anrec80 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
anrec80
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:53 am

CCGPV wrote:
What non-state actors have access to VX?

Seems like overkill if it were a simple gambling debt, etc.


It's hard to say. The whole former USSR had labs with all sort of stuff, and in many of those countries it was guarded not so well to say the least. It's hard to tell what and how much got out into the black market or darknet during those years. This includes not only substances themselves, but also processes for making them.
 
Kestrel333
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Re: Attempted spy assasination in UK?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:59 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Well, the Brits have given the Russians the opportunity to explain how someone else may have gotten a hold of their unique chemical weapons which only Russia knows how to produce. Go ahead, tell us. Who got a hold of those?


True, except that British gave the Ambassador 36 hour window.


Plenty of time. It’s not a hard question to answer, is it?

Did the Russian State authorise this attack? Or was it made possible by the fact that the Russian State has lost control of the weapon?
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