No proof yet. I have seen things but, why haven't we seen or heard anything?
How about this. After almost 50 years of study I have come to the conclusion they aren't from another world but,another dimension.

Yall have at it

Electronpusher9 wrote:

No proof yet. I have seen things but, why haven't we seen or heard anything?

Smart enough to hide themselves from the idiots that live on this planet

I agree, certainly we would know by now, with all the space exploration and telescopes reaching out there.

There is an infinite amount of space. You assume that "aliens" exist only in carbon based, oxygen processing, third-rock-from-the-star planet. Maybe life forms exist who can process ammonia into xenon or some crazy stuff. Prove it.

I get that Loch Ness type creatures or Bigfoot type creatures do not exist. I want them to but they probably do not. Anything outside this planet? nope. We are even finding life forms on this planet we never thought would exist.

Maybe aliens have been here for centuries for our nitrogen or radon properties.

WarRI1 wrote:

I agree, certainly we would know by now, with all the space exploration and telescopes reaching out there.

We can't even count the stars in our own galaxy, we still have to estimate. And there are some ~400.000.000.000 more.

Unless someone build a megastructure around a star or uses powerful radiotransmitters at a fairly near star, we won't know about them pretty much ever.

Space is big, no matter how big you think it is, it is bigger.

Best regards
Thomas

Where are they? Possibly still on their planet.

Just because they're out there somewhere doesn't mean they're able to be detected (our observation capabilities of distant objects isn't as great as you assume). They possibly don't even know we're here either.

And you assume that Earth is some wonderful destination that alien races are clamouring to get to?

And don't forget time.

Between time and distance we may never learn of another advanced alien species let alone meet one.

Tugg

maybe we are the aliens from another planet. food for thought.

It has also been suggested that we are a big-ass black monolith and a floating space-fetus.

Earth People are able to send radio waves into space since roughly 100 years. How far have they traveled yet - and how is the quality of the waves now after 100 years of travel? I just read recently - but can't find it - that the power that we use to transmit radio waves for our own pleasure is anyway way too small to be detected even on the closest exo-planets.

So, it's really unlikely that we could have received extraterrestial messages after just 50 years of listening into space. And remember, our listening device are stoneage-level in comparison to what would be needed if we wanted to be sure to detect even the slightest hint.

Here's some more reading for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_terrestrial_exoplanet_candidates

It says that our own galaxy alone could contain as "as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of sun-like stars and red dwarf stars". A yaw-dropping number. There is most certainly some life in whatever form out there, but with the same certainty we will never know for sure.

If our best scientists haven't found anything concrete, you may be overrating this forum as a fallback option

Electronpusher9 wrote:

No proof yet. I have seen things but, why haven't we seen or heard anything?
How about this. After almost 50 years of study I have come to the conclusion they aren't from another world but,another dimension.

Yall have at it

Have you any idea how big the Universe is?
We can't even find a lost 777 on our own planet.

Perhaps this:

Life is identical throughout the universe. All planets that hold life have identical creatures as here on Earth and started around the same time in history give or take a couple hundred years.

Who knows? Maybe we are the most advanced species out there and other civilizations are looking to be contacted by us?

WarRI1 wrote:

I agree, certainly we would know by now, with all the space exploration and telescopes reaching out there.

We don't even have the ability to see a planet in the nearest solar system to ours, Alpha Centauri. The only way we're able to detect planets is the Transit Method, which calculates the amount of light dimmed as a planet passes in front of it's star in relation to our line of sight to it. It's a fascinating method which allows is to find out quite a bit about the planet, even whether it's in the so called habitable zone. All that said, with our technology we don't have many possibilities at all to discover life at all at the nearest solar systems let alone further away in our galaxy, let alone out of our galaxy.

Personally I don't think we are even close with our technology to be able to discover life on other planets.

Do aliens exist, almost certain, just a question of numbers: more stars in the universe then there are sand grains on all the beaches on earth. Totally different question is if we can detect them. For this, we need to be ourselves technically competent and the aliens need to be. Then there is the factor time, we need to be at the same level at the time the signals get here. etc etc etc. The Drake equation might help you: N=R* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

N The number of such civilizations
R∗, the average rate of star formations, in our galaxy,
fp, the fraction of formed stars that have planets,
ne for stars that have planets, the average number of planets that can potentially support life,
fl, the fraction of those planets that actually develop life,
fi, the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, has developed,
fc, the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
L, the length of time over which such civilizations release detectable signals,

Electronpusher9 wrote:

No proof yet. I have seen things but, why haven't we seen or heard anything?
How about this. After almost 50 years of study I have come to the conclusion they aren't from another world but,another dimension.

Yall have at it

Just look up the Fermi paradox.

Everyone has a different theory.

I am convinced Andy Dick is an alien.

WarRI1 wrote:

I agree, certainly we would know by now, with all the space exploration and telescopes reaching out there.

The universe is rather large (way beyond the comprehension of most people).

Needle in a haystack? More like we haven't even found the galaxy that contains the solar system that contains the planet where the haystack is.

The chances of ever finding evidence of intelligent life outside our own solar system are infinitesimally small.

Not sure if he's gone insane or there is truly more than we know, but former member of Blink 182 Tom Delonge says he's met with top government officials about UFOs and aliens.

Here's one article about it, but there are plenty more. http://www.cbs8.com/story/37496738/form ... ch-academy

I suggest watching the following video:

The Fermi Paradox

If by "from another planet" you mean that they are here among us, then I'd say I don't believe there are aliens here.

If you just mean life exists somewhere else, then I'm certain it does. Our best bet to find it is not necessarily to look for it, but rather to do what we've done since the beginning of humanity : expand our habitat. We need to colonize space. Then one day we might stumble upon alien life.

af773atmsp wrote:

Not sure if he's gone insane or there is truly more than we know, but former member of Blink 182 Tom Delonge says he's met with top government officials about UFOs and aliens.

There may be more than we know, but he has also clearly gone insane.

Been reading about his various alien-related activities for a couple years now.

scbriml wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

I agree, certainly we would know by now, with all the space exploration and telescopes reaching out there.

The universe is rather large (way beyond the comprehension of most people).

Needle in a haystack? More like we haven't even found the galaxy that contains the solar system that contains the planet where the haystack is.

The chances of ever finding evidence of intelligent life outside our own solar system are infinitesimally small.

I was referring to our solar system and I do agree about others. Not a chance. One could of course mention the big bang theory and creation.

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

maybe we are the aliens from another planet. food for thought.

Mutated and lacking Tree of Life Pak we are ?

I'd more go with Heinlein's alien parasitic slugs ( nicely turned into a movie with D.Sutherland )
There is one right out in the open. they look like rugware
Another one is active in Spain ( or Belgium as may be).

WarRI1 wrote:

I was referring to our solar system and I do agree about others.

we haven´t really done much in the way of looking for life outside our own planet. All we can say so far is that life as we know it is not as prolific on the Moon or Mars as it is on Earth.

best regards
Thomas

Other planets that sustain life,may be farther than 100 lightyears away. If you were 100 light years away, and could just now see the earth with a PERFECT(Amplitude and distortion not an issue over space and time ) SATELLITE, you would be seeing the earth as it was at the end of WW 1.

Our radio waves are traveling at such a weak power base, that anything outside of 1 light year could hardly detect us.

Distance wise ,
In a Galaxy that is 100,000 light years across, planets with sentient life might have a hard time to classify a system on one of the outer rims of the galaxy as a target to send explorations too. Our solar system is far from the center. Considering there are 100 BILLION solar candidates in the milky way alone, other lifeforms capable of space travel would have to make a target plan to look for where they thought life was likely. Chances are low.


Time wise. Out of the 4.6 Billion years the earth has existed. We have had space travel for 60. Not a long time in the grand scheme, and it may take other civilizations longer to come about.

Technology: It will take time, education, and energy to be able to travel to distant stars. If we do not find a way to travel faster than the speed of light, is it worth it?

I guess I'll be the 2nd (or 3rd) person to bring up the Fermi Paradox. There are a lot of fascinating discussions out there as to why we don't/can't see other intelligent life out there. The problem with space is that it is incomprehensibility huge. But the size also means time and we suck at comprehending time. Over the course of human history -- roughly 1-2 million years there could have been thousands of intelligent, interstellar civilizations come and go, and we would have never known. Assuming interstellar travel is possible and at a speed where it doesn't take generations to travel between stars may require a level of technology and physiology that we as humans cannot imagine and wouldn't even know what to look for. And to those few interstellar aliens may look upon us as dumb and uninteresting apes not even worth their time.

BUT one of the solutions to the Fermi Paradox that I like is that as a civilization advances it creates its very destruction either through war or ecological disaster. Which means that intelligent life capable of interstellar communication or travel is exceedingly rare. And just given the sheer vastness of time and space makes it exceedingly impossible to find.

This is a subject that has intrigued me for most of my life. While I am very confident life exists elsewhere, we have to take into account how truly unique the circumstances are here on Earth that allowed life to take hold and flourish. The fact that we have a large moon that stabilizes the tilt of our axis, that we have a gas giant farther out in the solar system that helps protect us from being bombarded by large, masss-extintion causing asteroids raining down on us, that we have molten metallic core that generates a strong enough magnetic field to deflect many harmful cosmic rays and allows for plate tectonics, that we have a stable star that is not prone to extreme solar flares and CME's (more than our magnetosphere can handle) etc etc. With the sheer number of stars out there and the attendant planets, odds are high that these conditions exist elsewhere, but they may not be very common. That said, reason for us not finding "them" or conversely them find us are myriad. For starters, in the scale of our own galaxy, let alone the cosmos as a whole, we are beyond microscopically small. A light year is 6 trillion miles and our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. Our little rock is a mere 25,000 miles in circumference. Hardly a speck. Then there's the (unlikely) possibility that we are the most advanced civilization in the galaxy and if we've not even left our front porch yet, maybe no other civilization has either. Then there's the possibility that there really is a cosmic speed limit and no one can go faster than a small fraction of the speed of light. Physics as we know it would seem to support that. Maybe there's no way around that, maybe theories about using wormholes and bending space/time are just that - theories that can never be put into practice. Or who knows, maybe aliens will come visit us from a vastly advanced culture and all of our physics textbooks will only be useful as doorstops after they teach us what they know.
This is just fascinating stuff to me

All these are reasons why scientists so often have deep faith. The universe is larger than we can fathom. We can't put it in a box. It's the same with God. Many people have tried to define God as one thing or another. But God is so much broader than our finite minds!

zrs70 wrote:

All these are reasons why scientists so often have deep faith. The universe is larger than we can fathom. We can't put it in a box. It's the same with God. Many people have tried to define God as one thing or another. But God is so much broader than our finite minds!

Yet we are made in God's image. Quite a dichotomy.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas. I have heard of the Fermi Paradox. I find that fascinating. I am so pleased that all the ideas and discussions have been courteous and insightful .

zrs70 wrote:

All these are reasons why scientists so often have deep faith. !

Yeah, in science....

Best regards
Thomas

casinterest wrote:

zrs70 wrote:

All these are reasons why scientists so often have deep faith. The universe is larger than we can fathom. We can't put it in a box. It's the same with God. Many people have tried to define God as one thing or another. But God is so much broader than our finite minds!

Yet we are made in God's image.

So the janitors tell us. Question is how much that is worth as factual information.


Scientist, deep faith.
There is an interesting novel around "The Shoes of the Fisherman" ( Morris L. West )
the newly instantiated pope's ( from Russia aide finds his research rsults
to clash with Church dogma. Interesting take and made into a rather good movie.

then we have:
"The Star" ( Arthur C. Clarke )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_ ... ot_summary

For all we know, life on earth as we know it may have started from organic material on a meteor that hit the earth from a source already containing life.

Perhaps the Webb Telescope may help.....

LockheedBBD wrote:

For all we know, life on earth as we know it may have started from organic material on a meteor that hit the earth from a source already containing life.

Yes, panspermia as it is called is a pretty popular theory regarding the origins of life on Earth.

Electronpusher9 wrote:

No proof yet. I have seen things but, why haven't we seen or heard anything?
How about this. After almost 50 years of study I have come to the conclusion they aren't from another world but,another dimension.

Yall have at it

They might be asking the same question right now in a place far away from us..

787Driver wrote:

They might be asking the same question right now in a place far away from us..

Even within our galaxy identifying another civilization by accident, from radio emissions for example, would require them to be very close and intelligent and progressed enough to have sufficient technology and not use directed laser communication. If they don´t actively communicate we may be able to find them by analyzing the spectrum of their planets atmosphere for stuff that shouldn´t be there, like liberated Oxygen in larger quantity. But that is also only possible for nearby exoplanets even with the bigger telescopes being planned. And there are some 400 Billion other galaxies in the observable universe, all of them too far away to do either of that, unless a civilization invests a lot of engineering and mind boggling amounts of energy to deliberately aim that at us.

best regards
Thomas

bhill wrote:

Perhaps the Webb Telescope may help.....

It is needed to identify the Vogon fleet.

Here's the Drake formula that pretty much says it all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

We haven't been listening long enough to pick up but a very very small area of the universe, and even then we haven't be listening to everything.

But the odds are no matter how low you set the possible percentage of life bearing planets in that equation, it ends up in the end being in the millions if not billions.

Forget about the science based probability theories, just watch the entire X-Files series. That's what's really happening today and Crump is One. Once found out, they 'll be nothing left but green goo on the floor of the House AND his last words will be "This (aliens among us) is Fake news".

My personal bet is that simple life is common, multicellular life with information processing capabilities akin to a brain is rare. Look how long it took life on earth to evolve from prokaryotes to eukaryotes, then to multicellular life, then to oxygen-producing life, then to animals. Each step was arguably a very big one which doesn't happen often even on a universal time scale - prokaryotes dominated for billions of years. And that's true on our little gem of a stable world, which as one poster pointed out has so many things going for it - stable sun, stabilizing moon, plate tectonics renewing parts of the lithosphere not to mention preventing periodic meltdowns of much of the surface as is theorized on Venus, strong magnetic field blocking cosmic rays, and Jupiter eating or ejecting countless potential impactors. Take one of those factors away and complex animal life gets a lot more dicey. Bacterial mats can survive a lot more abuse.

treetreeseven wrote:

My personal bet is that simple life is common, multicellular life with information processing capabilities akin to a brain is rare. Look how long it took life on earth to evolve from prokaryotes to eukaryotes, then to multicellular life, then to oxygen-producing life, then to animals. Each step was arguably a very big one which doesn't happen often even on a universal time scale - prokaryotes dominated for billions of years. And that's true on our little gem of a stable world, which as one poster pointed out has so many things going for it - stable sun, stabilizing moon, plate tectonics renewing parts of the lithosphere not to mention preventing periodic meltdowns of much of the surface as is theorized on Venus, strong magnetic field blocking cosmic rays, and Jupiter eating or ejecting countless potential impactors. Take one of those factors away and complex animal life gets a lot more dicey. Bacterial mats can survive a lot more abuse.

Spot on IMHO
Now having said that, even with the rare occurrence of number of factors going for it that Earth has coming into focus all at once, the sheer number of stars and planets in the universe would put the possibility of it happening elsewhere in the millions if not billions. But the fact that the universe is one BIG place (beyond the ability of the human mind to truly comprehend) there is an overwhelming chance that we and other civilizations will never know of each others' existence, let along communicate or meet.

treetreeseven wrote:

And that's true on our little gem of a stable world, which as one poster pointed out has so many things going for it - stable sun, stabilizing moon, plate tectonics renewing parts of the lithosphere not to mention preventing periodic meltdowns of much of the surface as is theorized on Venus, strong magnetic field blocking cosmic rays, and Jupiter eating or ejecting countless potential impactors. Take one of those factors away and complex animal life gets a lot more dicey. Bacterial mats can survive a lot more abuse.

This view assumes that our place in this universe is special and that we had all the right conditions to make complex life possible on our planet. Sure, we couldn't have come this far in the way we have, if it weren't for all of those factors. But I'd also look at it from the other direction.

What if we had it harder than some other worlds in this universe. What if those other worlds had conditions that were far more ideal than what we've gone through and had complex lifeforms advance much more quickly. One of the things that come to mind is how the snowball Earth episodes could have delayed our progression to multi-cellular life sooner.

It doesn't have to be that the same conditions are needed, but maybe a different combination of factors that we haven't considered yet are more efficient in producing and sustaining complex life.

ER757 wrote:

LockheedBBD wrote:

For all we know, life on earth as we know it may have started from organic material on a meteor that hit the earth from a source already containing life.

Yes, panspermia as it is called is a pretty popular theory regarding the origins of life on Earth.

And with a nod to WIederling's post above ("The Star" by Arthur C. Clarke) and Andre3K thread postulating a huge asteroid hitting the earth (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1386791), it's as likely that panspermia life came from a decimated planet whose dead end spawned life elsewhere!

(And this simulation of a large asteroid impacting Earth is stolen from SmithAir747's post in Andre3K's thread)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU1QPtOZQZU

Oops, damn, not good!

Maybe life on earth will in turn spawn life elsewhere.

And BTW, I've raised it before but I really don't care two whits about "contaminating" other planets with our DAN and bacteria. I get the high science of it all but ultimately everything's at risk and human life will/needs to expand beyond earth and so will for a fact impact lots of planets (hopefully...Star Trek here we come! )

lightsaber wrote:

bhill wrote:

Perhaps the Webb Telescope may help.....

It is needed to identify the Vogon fleet.

Most important is to use it to view the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council's plans and demolition orders on display in the planning department in Alpha Centauri. We need time to lodge a formal complaint!

Tugg

seb146 wrote:

There is an infinite amount of space. You assume that "aliens" exist only in carbon based, oxygen processing, third-rock-from-the-star planet. Maybe life forms exist who can process ammonia into xenon or some crazy stuff. Prove it.

We are even finding life forms on this planet we never thought would exist.

Maybe aliens have been here for centuries for our nitrogen or radon properties.

Not only that but, most humans have no concept as to how insignificant we are on the galactic stage. None! I usually ask X'tians, if the earth (and it's solar syblings) disappeared...would the Milky Way take notice?

With Billions of stars in MW, (and most of those stars containing planetary systems), the answer is a resounding 'NO'!

That's like a person missing a fart they cracked when the were 9 years old..unless it was class and the entire room heard and smelled it..then that one may be remember.

But this Earth-centric view of 'if they haven't visited us, they must not exist .. is sheer ignorance. Like someone above said ' they apparently conclude that "you know that shithole planet where the locals call planet Ziblok - Earth? Yeah, avoid that place at all cost, morons everywhere in that place"..like how many board members here have vacationed in the islands south of Mindanao in the Philippines? Probably none...not to be calling Mindanao or any islands shit holes, but the point being that we are picky about where we go here, so how the hell are we in any position to conclude what any intelligent lifeform should or should not being doing when it comes to our puny planet?

When you look up at constellation Orion and see the orange-tinted star in his upper left shoulder, that's Betelguese, were in in place of our sun - we'd be gone and so would Mars and the edge would near Jupiter. But the light you see while staring at Betelguese, reaching your eyes while observing it left Betelguese 132 years before Columbus dragged his ass across the Atlantic. You are seeing the past.

This universe is mind-blowingly vast, and if string theory predictions are right, this universe is one of many, and like our sun...it's most likely far from being the biggest.

BN747

i always like the scene from Men In Black at the end, where our galaxy exists in an aliens marble.

acentauri wrote:

Forget about the science based probability theories, just watch the entire X-Files series. That's what's really happening today and Crump is One. Once found out, they 'll be nothing left but green goo on the floor of the House AND his last words will be "This (aliens among us) is Fake news".

Phah!
I am waiting for the documentary "Iron Sky: The Coming Race"

everything will be explained there.

What makes people believe we aren't already in contact with aliens? All we need to communicate is the written language and we have had that in place for at least 6000 years.

The theories you can come up with are endless.

Some of my favorites are earth is simply to hostile for aliens to want anything to do with us. Not from the perspective of humans being hostile but simply because the potential for a microscopic bug to be able to make the leap to an alien biology and cause havoc. Then you have the likely outcome that any near by alien civilization that could contact us is at least an order of magnitude older then us as civilization.

We may trace are civilization back 10000 years. But an alien civilization may well trace itself back 100000 year are more. They would be so far in advance of us they probably would find little reason to talk to us. Linked to this would be plotting certain likely technological trends we can see playing out in future of earth. These are basic trend lines of biology and ability to manipulate human biology. We will probably use the technology to both increase are lifespans and average intelligence of future generations. Alien civilizations will have progressed down this technology path many thousand of years ahead of us. Rendering the view that meanful contact with us is impossible until we reach that point where we can make the same jump. That dealing with primitive humans with IQ so limited and lifespans so short would be impossible on ethical grounds. We would be seen as retarded pets in any relationship.

Then you have the advance of computer technology rendering need for contact void. Any question they would want answer to from us could be gotten by simply running a simulation. That could be very reason they haven't contacted us because all the simulations have advised them not to.

Then you have limits that may preclude contact. The density of intelligent life in the universe may be so low as preclude to alien civilization co existing near each other at the same time. Light-speed limit my well be insurmountable rendering contact much harder. The two combined would explain the seeming absence of aliens contacting us.

You can come up with endless reasons why we have been contacted by aliens yet.

There is no easy way of answering this question the only thing humans have are theories as to why we haven’t been contacted or received some kind of radio transmission from another advanced civilization.

I have heard of the possibility of terraforming Mars to make it habitable for us in the future. Scientists have suggested that the earth was terraformed long ago or that we are descendants of another past advanced civilization.

The more important question is can/could we even communicate with extraterrestrials, or receive some form of communication from them?
We can only see visible light with the naked eye. The other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum are invisible to us (X-Ray, Gamma, Ultraviolet etc) unless we use special equipment to see it.

It’s possible they live in another physical dimension or instead of the surface of a planet they could be underneath the surface or somewhere else.
Perhaps some civilizations have existed and are long gone by now. Then again some places are not habitable now but will be sometime in the distant future.

Lastly, we don’t know what Dark Matter/Energy are, however there are some prevailing theories for now.