tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 4:54 am

DaveFly wrote:
If there is no God, why do so many people cry out his name during sex?


Pastor John C Hagee wrote:
There is no greater sin in terms of wrongly using God’s name than women who use it during sex. That is one of the filthiest, most derogatory and sinful uses of the Lord’s name I can think of. If it were up to me, I would put every single woman or girl who does that in jail. That would be a fine example of God’s wrath aimed at what is, in my opinion, a terrible misuse of our Maker’s good name


Probably because a) that is how our phrases happen to be and b) they are probably not afraid of any consequences, because when push comes to shove *cough* they don´t really believe in god.

"Eat sh*t and die" usually doesn´t mean you hope someone dies of a doodoo overdose.

best regards
Thomas
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jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 5:11 am

LMP737 wrote:

You post a link to a creationist website? Creationism whose only supporting "document" is a story written thousands of years ago by people who were scientifically ignorant about the world and universe around them.



Hey, give him a break, that was the most intelligent post hes ever made.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Zeppi
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 5:43 am

LMP737 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
... a story written thousands of years ago by people who were scientifically ignorant about the world and universe around them.

That pretty much sums up the origin of every religion. People had no clue about anything, hence saying $God made it was a simple and effective explanation. Of course that still holds merit today, as we see in this very thread. I'm rather amused by people still touting the $God stuff, even when we can explain almost everything and can admit to that we can't with a simple "Well, we don't know. - Yet!". There seems to be this desire to have a purpose, to have this magical dude up in the sky responsible for everything - why? So much inferiority involved? I honestly wouldn't care if religion was kept purely a private matter, if people want to believe that pink elephants are flying over the atlantic at night, then fair game to them, whatever. But as soon as this stuff creeps into other peoples' lives, let alone cause restrictions or even violence when the religion is used a a tool of oppression and projection of power, my red flag goes up immediately. And since most religions have been used and still are being used in such fashion in the most despicable ways imaginable, all I can do is regard them as despicable myself.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 6:13 am

In the end religion was a tool of power, remember that religious leaders most often also wielded earthly powers, or to put it in other words, your king was also your god or at least god´s highest servant. And as such religion made sense. It answered the unanswered questions the people had, like why are we living, but more importantly it created one final inescapable authority that would watch every step of the people and would judge them for that. Which was hugely practical when any king had very limited power outside an area that could be reached by horse within a week.

So back at the time god´s law was important to form a society, as earthly power could not really enforce laws in a coherent way. If you steal or murder, the chance of being caught was not that big in many parts of the world, so in reality people would have little pressure to follow such laws, but with the afterlife judgement of an all knowing power, there was no way to escape the law and if you believed in the god, you felt the moral pressure to act accordingly.
 
DaveFly
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 3:24 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DaveFly wrote:
If there is no God, why do so many people cry out his name during sex?


Pastor John C Hagee wrote:
There is no greater sin in terms of wrongly using God’s name than women who use it during sex. That is one of the filthiest, most derogatory and sinful uses of the Lord’s name I can think of. If it were up to me, I would put every single woman or girl who does that in jail. That would be a fine example of God’s wrath aimed at what is, in my opinion, a terrible misuse of our Maker’s good name


Probably because a) that is how our phrases happen to be and b) they are probably not afraid of any consequences, because when push comes to shove *cough* they don´t really believe in god.

"Eat sh*t and die" usually doesn´t mean you hope someone dies of a doodoo overdose.

best regards
Thomas


Oh my God (!!!). My post was intended to get a laugh and poke fun at the absurdity of this entire thread. You were seriously thinking of how to respond? Maybe you need more sex.
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tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 3:51 pm

DaveFly wrote:
Maybe you need more sex.


Or maybe you don't get my sense of humor, taking jokes deadpants serious. But with my FWB currently in Australia, the other part may be true as well.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
DaveFly
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 6:04 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DaveFly wrote:
Maybe you need more sex.


Or maybe you don't get my sense of humor, taking jokes deadpants serious. But with my FWB currently in Australia, the other part may be true as well.

Best regards
Thomas


Well, I hope she or he returns soon! Or you visit Australia!
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 23, 2018 6:38 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I haven't met Mike Pence, but I'm glad he's on the same team as I am.


Team "I was never tought the language of science, and if i am told now i refuse to learn"?

So, are you delusional or just badly informed?

best regards
Thomas


So, were you ever hooked on phonics, or just badly trained on spelling AND grammar ? ?
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu May 24, 2018 5:54 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, were you ever hooked on phonics, or just badly trained on spelling AND grammar ? ?


Badly trained on spelling and grammar, not for lack of trying on my teachers part though. Surprisingly i never made spelling errors in Latin, as far as i know phonics isn´t used anywhere in Germany. When posting from the smartphone some spelling stuff will be due to my phone disagreeing with me on what i want to write. But since tought is the way idiots spell the word "taught." i won´t deliberately missspell it again, while you would just keep writing tought despite that error being pointed out to you, which is exactly the point i was trying to make. So, i guess thank you for reinforcing it.

DaveFly wrote:
Well, I hope she or he returns soon! Or you visit Australia!


Nah, too far just for that. But why do work & travel visa last for a year......

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:25 pm

(Atheist) Crocodile Jumped Out Of Water And Killed Ethiopian Pastor During Baptism
http://www.newsweek.com/crocodile-kills ... pia-959325

Well, there's the vote from the animal world.
 
jupiter2
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:55 pm

drew777 wrote:
Americans do love their fairy tales.

A gun in every hand will stop violence.
Iraq was a imminent threat to the US.
You can force a democracy on to another country.
Occupying a country will help stop terrorism.
Anything that helps other people is nasty socialism.
Trump is a good Christian.
God is always watching us!

All utter nonsense


You do realise that there were religious nut bags running around murdering "non believers of their god" (unfortunately they still do) long before America existed ?

Or are you implying that "god" is an American invention ? In which case, which god did they invent ?
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 am

BN747 wrote:
We humans have figured out a few this about this vast Universe (of many), but few of us are aware that it takes 220 to 250 million or so years for this huge ass Milky Way Galaxy to complete a single rotation...meaning that we haven't been around but a fraction of a half of a %. Basically as much as we know...we don't know shit. Sure we know volumes and volumes vs what the Goat Herders knew.
But even then, what we know today is but a fraction of what is to be known.

:checkmark:

As a species, we've just managed to pull ourselves upright enough to peer unsteadily out through the bars of our crib.
 
jetero
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:52 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I haven't met Mike Pence, but I'm glad he's on the same team as I am.


Team "I was never tought the language of science, and if i am told now i refuse to learn"?

So, are you delusional or just badly informed?

best regards
Thomas


So, were you ever hooked on phonics, or just badly trained on spelling AND grammar ? ?


Hmmmmmmmm I’m thinking retired high school teacher in Dallas suburbs. Do I go east? I mean, you kind of stink of Garland. But I’m thinking you did Garland and decided to do better for yourself and went all out Argyle. That registers.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:44 am

jetero wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm I’m thinking retired high school teacher in Dallas suburbs. Do I go east? I mean, you kind of stink of Garland. But I’m thinking you did Garland and decided to do better for yourself and went all out Argyle. That registers.


You will have to expand in that, because to me you may have just as well said "the crayon is green". :D

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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DL717
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:04 pm

jetero wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm I’m thinking retired high school teacher in Dallas suburbs. Do I go east? I mean, you kind of stink of Garland. But I’m thinking you did Garland and decided to do better for yourself and went all out Argyle. That registers.


Is that supposed to be some kind of insult? Ross Perot bought most of Argyle decades ago. I’m not even sure it exists anymore.
 
PC12Fan
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:45 am

Fighting over religion. The greatest contradiction in the history of mankind.

Love your brother, blah, blah blah.

Honor no other God but mine, blah, blah, blah.

Mankind used to worship Sun Gods, Water Gods, other simple Gods and where did that that go? Oh yeah, they were dismissed as ridiculous ideology.

Why is this so different now?

Personally, I really hope there is a one true God. Because if my judgement day comes, I've got some VERY serious questions to demand first. Let me list just a couple:

Why do you give a 3 year old baby of a family that already worships him without hesitation, terminal cancer?
In that same vain, why spare God loving people about to get hit by a massive tornado, begging "him" to save them and then wrap other God loving people begging "him" to save them, around a telephone pole?

And spare me this to prove their worth crap. They already did.

This is no God that I want to have anything to do with that does this.

He supposedly created all. If that's the case, then God needs to buck up and clean up his own freaking mess that only "he" made.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
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DL717
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:11 am

PC12Fan wrote:
Fighting over religion. The greatest contradiction in the history of mankind.

Love your brother, blah, blah blah.

Honor no other God but mine, blah, blah, blah.

Mankind used to worship Sun Gods, Water Gods, other simple Gods and where did that that go? Oh yeah, they were dismissed as ridiculous ideology.

Why is this so different now?

Personally, I really hope there is a one true God. Because if my judgement day comes, I've got some VERY serious questions to demand first. Let me list just a couple:

Why do you give a 3 year old baby of a family that already worships him without hesitation, terminal cancer?
In that same vain, why spare God loving people about to get hit by a massive tornado, begging "him" to save them and then wrap other God loving people begging "him" to save them, around a telephone pole?

And spare me this to prove their worth crap. They already did.

This is no God that I want to have anything to do with that does this.

He supposedly created all. If that's the case, then God needs to buck up and clean up his own freaking mess that only "he" made.


https://www.christianitytoday.com/pasto ... agedy.html
 
PC12Fan
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:53 am

DL717 wrote:
PC12Fan wrote:
Fighting over religion. The greatest contradiction in the history of mankind.

Love your brother, blah, blah blah.

Honor no other God but mine, blah, blah, blah.

Mankind used to worship Sun Gods, Water Gods, other simple Gods and where did that that go? Oh yeah, they were dismissed as ridiculous ideology.

Why is this so different now?

Personally, I really hope there is a one true God. Because if my judgement day comes, I've got some VERY serious questions to demand first. Let me list just a couple:

Why do you give a 3 year old baby of a family that already worships him without hesitation, terminal cancer?
In that same vain, why spare God loving people about to get hit by a massive tornado, begging "him" to save them and then wrap other God loving people begging "him" to save them, around a telephone pole?

And spare me this to prove their worth crap. They already did.

This is no God that I want to have anything to do with that does this.

He supposedly created all. If that's the case, then God needs to buck up and clean up his own freaking mess that only "he" made.


https://www.christianitytoday.com/pasto ... agedy.html


Yep. Gonna get flame baited for this - but there's always an excuse from the religious community, isn't there.

Always.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:22 am

PC12Fan wrote:
Yep. Gonna get flame baited for this - but there's always an excuse from the religious community, isn't there.

Always.


Of course there is. But we all know, God allows evil either because he is evil, he is a genocidal sadist according to scripture after all, or because he doesn't exist.

PC12Fan wrote:
Mankind used to worship Sun Gods, Water Gods, other simple Gods and where did that that go? Oh yeah, they were dismissed as ridiculous ideology.

Why is this so different now?


It isn't. Jesus is a sun God, his dad is calling on wind Gods, and the holy ghost/spirit is a wind god. We just don't call it such anymore, and no one reads the Bible anyways, ~50% of all Christians never (!) read the Bible.
Hence "I bet you 10 bucks you can't tell me the ten Commandments" is such a safe bar bet, even priests usually get it wrong.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Freakysh
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:39 am

tommy1808 wrote:
PC12Fan wrote:
Yep. Gonna get flame baited for this - but there's always an excuse from the religious community, isn't there.

Always.


Of course there is. But we all know, God allows evil either because he is evil, he is a genocidal sadist according to scripture after all, or because he doesn't exist.

PC12Fan wrote:
Mankind used to worship Sun Gods, Water Gods, other simple Gods and where did that that go? Oh yeah, they were dismissed as ridiculous ideology.

Why is this so different now?


It isn't. Jesus is a sun God, his dad is calling on wind Gods, and the holy ghost/spirit is a wind god. We just don't call it such anymore, and no one reads the Bible anyways, ~50% of all Christians never (!) read the Bible.
Hence "I bet you 10 bucks you can't tell me the ten Commandments" is such a safe bar bet, even priests usually get it wrong.

Best regards
Thomas


What's your take on Allah and Muslims?
 
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DL717
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:05 pm

If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?
 
bagoldex
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:12 pm

DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


An awareness of just how dangerous that myth is.
 
WIederling
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:02 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
You do realise that there were religious nut bags running around murdering "non believers of their god" (unfortunately they still do) long before America existed ?


continuing to do so doesn't make it any better or elevates its moral quality in any way.

Or are you implying that "god" is an American invention ? In which case, which god did they invent ?


They "homesteaded" (the Christian) god. Chosen by god to ... abuse the world.
Murphy is an optimist
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:07 pm

Freakysh wrote:
What's your take on Allah and Muslims?


There is no relevant difference between Islam, Judaism and Christianity, they are just a mix of Zarathustrianism and polytheistic precursors of Judaism.
Allah is just as non-existend as Jhwe, no surprise since it is the same god, Muslims suffer from the same delusions as Christians, how deluded they are is a function of how progressive their believe system is. I find it funny that even very liberal Muslims follow the Ramadan jiggery-pokery, but even faithful christians often don't do their 40 days ...

bagoldex wrote:
DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


An awareness of just how dangerous that myth is.

:checkmark:
Almost all evil originates in Religion, you just have to subtract the few truly evil and/or insane people.

DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


Because we care? And what do you mean by trying? Last chance for the Christian Taliban to take over the US for example, non-religious majorities are just 20 years away.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Aesma
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:56 pm

DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


Do you have a measure of how much that is ? When you turn on your TV, how much "militant atheist" programming is there compared to religious programming ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:51 pm

Aesma wrote:
how much "militant atheist" programming is there compared to religious programming ?


Plenty of science shows on TV, there you have your "militant atheist" programming.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
airnorth
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:30 pm

There is no god.
 
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DL717
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:48 am

bagoldex wrote:
DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


An awareness of just how dangerous that myth is.


LOL. Maybe it’s because Athiesm has become its own religion. Preach it brother!
 
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DL717
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:49 am

Aesma wrote:
DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


Do you have a measure of how much that is ? When you turn on your TV, how much "militant atheist" programming is there compared to religious programming ?


Yes I have a measure. Read this thread.
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:52 am

DL717 wrote:
Athiesm has become its own religion
Atheism is a religion in the same manner that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:53 pm

salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Athiesm has become its own religion
Atheism is a religion in the same manner that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

The issue religious people seem to have with atheists is that they are agnostics who then looked into it a bit further and weighed up the evidence for themselves to establish that there is such a small chance their being a higher power that it is non existent. This builds up a confidence and surety that can often be construed as militant by those seeing it which can often seem like religious fervor.

I have yet to see any evidence for a higher being or indeed any reason why one would be needed (or even wanted if many of the religious texts are to be taken seriously).

Gods and religions are just by-products/short circuit of the way the human brain has evolved to do high speed predictive modelling, luckily we have also developed a system called science that can validate and correct those errors and it has shown to be a very successful model by which to base a society.

Fred
Image
 
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Tugger
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:56 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Athiesm has become its own religion
Atheism is a religion in the same manner that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

The issue religious people seem to have with atheists is that they are agnostics who then looked into it a bit further and weighed up the evidence for themselves to establish that there is such a small chance their being a higher power that it is non existent. This builds up a confidence and surety that can often be construed as militant by those seeing it which can often seem like religious fervor.

I have yet to see any evidence for a higher being or indeed any reason why one would be needed (or even wanted if many of the religious texts are to be taken seriously).

Gods and religions are just by-products/short circuit of the way the human brain has evolved to do high speed predictive modelling, luckily we have also developed a system called science that can validate and correct those errors and it has shown to be a very successful model by which to base a society.

Fred

Many, and I think including our friend 717, cannot imagine "not believing in a higher power" so they unintelligently assign the same value "a belief" to the statement "I am an atheist". So these people think they are the same, that both are equal beliefs. When of course this is not in any way true.

But don't bother trying to explain it to them. Just accept that they don't get it and can't understand it. I've tried. ("It's not a belief, I don't know and have nothing to convince me there is any higher intelligence or a giant penis swinging around out there. I simply do not put any real thought into it since there is no need to and it is unimportant." But again, those that "believe" cannot comprehend this.)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:55 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Gods and religions are just by-products/short circuit of the way the human brain has evolved to do high speed predictive modelling, luckily we have also developed a system called science that can validate and correct those errors and it has shown to be a very successful model by which to base a society.

My assumption is that god is an abstract invention to fill the need for all knowing, all powerful "parents" once the child reaches adulthood.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:23 pm

salttee wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Gods and religions are just by-products/short circuit of the way the human brain has evolved to do high speed predictive modelling, luckily we have also developed a system called science that can validate and correct those errors and it has shown to be a very successful model by which to base a society.

My assumption is that god is an abstract invention to fill the need for all knowing, all powerful "parents" once the child reaches adulthood.

I agree, that’s the outcome and it is used cynically by some and naively by others to exploit this “error” in brain wiring. Trusting your elders means a whole load of learning can be bypassed and gives humans a huge advantage in nature but just like our brains can be tricked by virtual reality it can also be tricked by religion.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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LMP737
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:07 am

DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


Tell me, if someone told you they were going to kill their own son but angels stopped him and he killed a goat instead would sit down and say "Please tell me more!". Or would you call the cops. If someone told you they were building a boat to house two of every animal on the planet would you grab your hammer and saw? Or would you slowly back away hoping they don't follow you.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:38 am

LMP737 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


Tell me, if someone told you they were going to kill their own son but angels stopped him and he killed a goat instead would sit down and say "Please tell me more!".


That is the nice "sacrifice your child" Story in the bible. No angels intervened when General Jephthah made a burned offering out of his daughter in Judges 11:31ff

Always remember:
probably drug induced hallucination wrote:
...for all the firstborn are mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set apart for myself every firstborn in Israel, whether human or animal. They are to be mine. I am the LORD.
Numbers 3:13

And don´t forget the 5th Commandment:
another drug induced hallucination wrote:
Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.


best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:24 am

tommy1808 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
If God is a myth, why do atheists spend so much time trying to convince people that he is?


Tell me, if someone told you they were going to kill their own son but angels stopped him and he killed a goat instead would sit down and say "Please tell me more!".


That is the nice "sacrifice your child" Story in the bible. No angels intervened when General Jephthah made a burned offering out of his daughter in Judges 11:31ff

Always remember:
probably drug induced hallucination wrote:
...for all the firstborn are mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set apart for myself every firstborn in Israel, whether human or animal. They are to be mine. I am the LORD.
Numbers 3:13

And don´t forget the 5th Commandment:
another drug induced hallucination wrote:
Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.


best regards

Thomas



Why I never have even tried to read much in the Bible.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
PC12Fan
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:24 am

Freakysh wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
PC12Fan wrote:
Yep. Gonna get flame baited for this - but there's always an excuse from the religious community, isn't there.

Always.


Of course there is. But we all know, God allows evil either because he is evil, he is a genocidal sadist according to scripture after all, or because he doesn't exist.

PC12Fan wrote:
Mankind used to worship Sun Gods, Water Gods, other simple Gods and where did that that go? Oh yeah, they were dismissed as ridiculous ideology.

Why is this so different now?


It isn't. Jesus is a sun God, his dad is calling on wind Gods, and the holy ghost/spirit is a wind god. We just don't call it such anymore, and no one reads the Bible anyways, ~50% of all Christians never (!) read the Bible.
Hence "I bet you 10 bucks you can't tell me the ten Commandments" is such a safe bar bet, even priests usually get it wrong.

Best regards
Thomas


What's your take on Allah and Muslims?


Well, as you can conclude, I feel the same of Allah as I do of other Gods. But even though I have become an atheist, I'm not one in it's true definition, if you will. As contradictory as it sounds, I'm not anti-God. For example there are those who say "In God We Trust" needs to go. Or that a nativity scene has no place in a government building. Or that a person gets frowned upon for wearing a Hijab. Seriously? I say we've got much bigger fish to fry kids. Focus your cynicism on something more worthwhile.

I have no angst against any religious followers up to the point of extremism. There is no place in a peaceful world for it no matter what the religion.

Regards
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:07 am

PC12Fan wrote:
But even though I have become an atheist, I'm not one in it's true definition, if you will. As contradictory as it sounds, I'm not anti-God.


An Atheist is just a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.You don´t have to be anti-God. Most people that describe themselves as agnostics, because "atheist" happens to be a bad word in their society, turn out to be Atheists when you ask them what they do believe. You are an atheist for simply finding Gods existence less likely than his existence.

If Atheists where anti-god, US politics would look quite different, there are about as many of those than Catholics, Jews and Muslims combined, they should be a major political target group. If they where Anti-God lots of campaigns would run on secularism. How many people in the US government/representation even admit they don´t believe in God, when there should be hundreds.

For example there are those who say "In God We Trust" needs to go. Or that a nativity scene has no place in a government building. ].....[ Seriously? I say we've got much bigger fish to fry kids. Focus your cynicism on something more worthwhile.


When you mix religion and government, you get Theocracies. Mixing Religion and Government (=law) kills people, even in the US, where a majority of states has law in places that exempt religious people from procectution for committing certain crimes, that Atheists would go to prison for. One of your loved ones could get killed by some stupid parents refusing vaccination for their kids over some religious or spiritual nonsense. I find it interesting that US Federal prisons in highly religious US states have quite a lot of Atheists in prison, seems almost like local Juries send people to the slammer for being Atheists, not for having committed a crime.

Or that a person gets frowned upon for wearing a Hijab.


Isn´t it usually Christians that frown upon that? Atheists tent to either not care at all, or want all religious symbols gone, i.e. frown on a cross around the neck (wouldn´t it be quite hilarious if Jesus had been hanged and all those Christians would run around with Nooses around their necks?) just as much as on a Hijab.

There is no place in a peaceful world for it no matter what the religion.


There is no peace with religion, no matter what the religion. Not even Christians, Jews and Muslims get along, and they pray to the same good, have a lot of scripture in common and have virtually the same theology. Yet they have pretty much been at war with each other since their inception.
Ever noticed the correlation between how secular countries are, and how happy, productive and peaceful those places are? Ever been to super religious South America. I wonder why churches there have more protection against break in than banks around here....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
PC12Fan
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:23 am

Well said sir. Much better then I did.

Regards
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
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dik909
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:27 am

bagoldex wrote:

* Bonus points for evidence!

** 250,000 Aadvantage pesos for proof beyond a reasonable doubt that "god" exists!!!


What would count as 'evidence' to you ?

If God's existence could be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt," (the Christian god, specifically), would you believe ??
The atheistic claim to "reason" is more a matter of public relations than competence in reasoned debate.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:50 am

dik909 wrote:
What would count as 'evidence' to you ?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence

If God's existence could be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt," (the Christian god, specifically), would you believe ??


No need to believe things that have evidence backing them up. Those things are just true, "believe" is reserved to things w/o Evidence. Just as evolution is true due to overwhelming evidence, regardless of how many people don´t believe it. Not believing stuff that is true is a religious "virtue".

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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dik909
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
dik909 wrote:
What would count as 'evidence' to you ?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence



My reply was directed to bagoldex, but your reply warrants a response: So, what Scientific Evidence do you have that Caesar crossed the Rubicon ? What Scientific Evidence do you have that the Laws of Logic exist ?? What Scientific Evidence do you have that I exist ???

Consider what the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy (the mother of Science) defines as evidence: "that which increases (or decreases) the likelihood of a proposition." Notice, zero mention of material provability. Even eyewitness testimony counts as evidence, as any lawyer well knows.

I say the following with all gentleness and respect: you are unconsciously making epistemological assumptions which cannot be "Scientifically Proven," yet you are clearly well-justified to believe. History, aesthetics, morals, even your belief in the reliability of "science"... none of these can be "Scientifically Proven."

tommy1808 wrote:
dik909 wrote:
If God's existence could be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt," (the Christian god, specifically), would you believe ??


No need to believe things that have evidence backing them up. Those things are just true, "believe" is reserved to things w/o Evidence. Just as evolution is true due to overwhelming evidence, regardless of how many people don´t believe it. Not believing stuff that is true is a religious "virtue".

best regards
Thomas


So, am I correct in that you don't believe that the earth orbits the sun, because astronomy is supported by "evidence" ?

Wow, many sweeping assumptions you're coming to. Given your aforementioned epistemological presuppositions, I fear that your beliefs were reached in haste in order to justify a pre-existing theological bias.
The atheistic claim to "reason" is more a matter of public relations than competence in reasoned debate.
 
WIederling
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:39 am

tommy1808 wrote:
I find it funny that even very liberal Muslims follow the Ramadan jiggery-pokery, but even faithful christians often don't do their 40 days ...

A time of feasting. Who would avoid that?
Ramadan today is 40 days of late night feasting. ( Such that the kids can't keep their eyes open over the school day.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:40 am

dik909 wrote:
So, what Scientific Evidence do you have that Caesar crossed the Rubicon ? What Scientific Evidence do you have that the Laws of Logic exist ??


Define your terms. What exactly do you want evidence for? And that is a classical apologist goal post moving, pretending that something that is claimed to have acted and has/had effects in our physical reality is a whole different question than does logic exist. To paraphrase the Tempelton foundation: "If prayer works, we can of course test and proof/disproof that", but weather someone is listening to your prayers can´t be tested. Btw, what is your definition of God, including
What Scientific Evidence do you have that I exist ???


none, i would assign a fairly high prior probability though and don´t see much reason to to negate that with a pessimistic likelihood ratio.
And isn´t "you can not proof that reality is real" the last chapter of the apologists handbook?

There is no point arguing about anything without accepting that reality is real first.

Consider what the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy (the mother of Science) defines as evidence: "that which increases (or decreases) the likelihood of a proposition." Notice, zero mention of material provability.


Trying to move goal post? But i´ll play: the god hypothesis has been tested time and time again, knowing more about God, his creation and how he did it, was after all the force that created science. Given that the hypothesis has failed every test we could devise so far, we always seem to find a natural explanation once we have figured out how to collect data, if becomes rather absurd to pursuit that hypothesis.

Consider what the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy defines as evidence: "that which increases (or decreases) the likelihood of a proposition.", no one has even counted all the tests the god hypothesis has failed, that by your own definition have pretty much evidenced God out of existence, generally, not just a specific one. The "don´t know, don´t care, don´t do anything after holding a match to creation" God of the theists is the only possible god remaining, unless you want to believe in a god that fakes all the natural causes to.. mm.. be evil i guess.

We have much, much more data supporting Marcus Aurelius miraculous victory in a battle against hordes of barbarians somewhere in today´s Czech Republic (or Slovakia), where the Egyptian sorcerer Harnouphis cast a spell to bring Hermes to destroy those barbarians with lightning and thunder.

We found an inscription from that time in the area, naming Harnouphis traveling with a roman legion, we have an eyewitness autograph describing the events smack in Rome, we have coins commemorating it, minted directly after the event. Religious people wouldn´t stop partying if they only had one of those..... if only the prior probability wasn´t that low. We have zero evidence for magic/miracle (both mean the same) being real, and hence all those bits of data still don´t make the event likely.

Most interesting about that story, Christians hijacked it........ he had a Legion consisting only of Christians, funny considering Marcus Aurelius considered Christians traitors, that prayed and god did the Thunder and Lightning stuff.......

Even eyewitness testimony counts as evidence, as any lawyer well knows.


They are lawyers, they will consider anything as evidence that helps their case.

science wrote:
Some 75% of the wrongful convictions for rape and murder, including a number that led to people being scheduled for execution, were based on eyewitness testimony.


http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/ ... ists-weigh

Eyewitnesses are fairly useless. Remember we have an eyewitness autograph of freaking Egyptian magic, smack in the middle of Rome, seen by lots of other eyewitnesses and no one felt a need to contradict it. That is how "good" eye witnesses are.

I say the following with all gentleness and respect: you are unconsciously making epistemological assumptions which cannot be "Scientifically Proven," yet you are clearly well-justified to believe. History, aesthetics, morals, even your belief in the reliability of "science"... none of these can be "Scientifically Proven."


moving goal posts again.

tommy1808 wrote:
So, am I correct in that you don't believe that the earth orbits the sun, because astronomy is supported by "evidence" ?


I don´t think i ever used "believe" in this context even colloquially. Since there is no data contradicting it, that is just a fact to be accepted, not believed. Of course that has the precondition that reality is real, and that we are just talking about 3-dimensional space. In four dimensional space that becomes a touch more difficult to answer.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Tugger
Posts: 7731
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:52 pm

Do those that believe in "God" believe that there is a gigantic penis swinging around somewhere in the universe? I ask because humans and specifically man/males are supposedly "made in God's image" that means a penis (because women are discounted and made from "man" so the penis, the physical aspect that makes one male, is something that God has.... Well unless you support transgenderism and grasp the concept that sexuality is defined in the mind etc.)

The question of god existing is to me basically identical to the question of "do you believe in aliens". I believe in god like I believe it is possible, remotely, extraordinarily so, that aliens/an alien intelligence seeded worlds with life.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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dik909
Posts: 60
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:50 am

tommy1808 wrote:
dik909 wrote:
So, what Scientific Evidence do you have that Caesar crossed the Rubicon ? What Scientific Evidence do you have that the Laws of Logic exist ??


Define your terms. What exactly do you want evidence for?


What terms would you like me to define ? After all, I did already give the scholarly definition of 'evidence' which I go by..

tommy1808 wrote:
And that is a classical apologist goal post moving, pretending that something that is claimed to have acted and has/had effects in our physical reality is a whole different question than does logic exist.


Forgive me, but you're misapplying the 'Moving the Goalposts' fallacy, which occurs in response to a request for evidence that has already been met. Further, simply asking questions is not "Moving the Goalposts." I asked you one set of questions - which you did not answer. Please, the questions stand: given your response on what you consider to be 'evidence,' I would like to know what 'evidence' you have for, etc.

tommy1808 wrote:
Btw, what is your definition of God


Maximally supreme being. And yours ?

tommy1808 wrote:
And isn´t "you can not proof that reality is real" the last chapter of the apologists handbook? There is no point arguing about anything without accepting that reality is real first.


Now we can properly identify an informal fallacy: Poisoning the Well. Please, accept my words as they stand without trying to cast disparities upon who I am, an apologist; you are equally an apologist for God being a myth, but I will not dismiss your words based solely on that fact alone.

(PS - Yes, we can prove that reality is real; to think otherwise is amateurish freshman-level mental masturbation; there's a reason that academic philosophers don't dwell upon such things)

tommy1808 wrote:
Trying to move goal post? But i´ll play: the god hypothesis has been tested time and time again, knowing more about God, his creation and how he did it, was after all the force that created science. Given that the hypothesis has failed every test we could devise so far, we always seem to find a natural explanation once we have figured out how to collect data, if becomes rather absurd to pursuit that hypothesis.


Once again, I have not asked you for further/greater "evidence" since you have not responded to me in the first place. You seem to be evading, though. I hope that is not the case.

What is the "natural explanation" for the Laws of Logic which your purported rationality presupposes ? What is the "natural explanation" for the origin/cause of the Big Bang ? What is the "natural explanation" for the Cambrian Explosion ?

I could go on & on, but I don't want to overload you, so please seriously engage with these few questions first.

tommy1808 wrote:
...the tests the god hypothesis has failed, that by your own definition have pretty much evidenced God out of existence, generally, not just a specific one. The "don´t know, don´t care, don´t do anything after holding a match to creation" God of the theists is the only possible god remaining, unless you want to believe in a god that fakes all the natural causes to.. mm.. be evil i guess.


Forgive me, but, what ? Is that supposed to be a coherent statement ?

tommy1808 wrote:
We have much, much more data supporting Marcus Aurelius miraculous victory in a battle against hordes of barbarians somewhere in today´s Czech Republic (or Slovakia), where the Egyptian sorcerer Harnouphis cast a spell to bring Hermes to destroy those barbarians with lightning and thunder.

We found an inscription from that time in the area, naming Harnouphis traveling with a roman legion, we have an eyewitness autograph describing the events smack in Rome, we have coins commemorating it, minted directly after the event. Religious people wouldn´t stop partying if they only had one of those..... if only the prior probability wasn´t that low. We have zero evidence for magic/miracle (both mean the same) being real, and hence all those bits of data still don´t make the event likely.

Most interesting about that story, Christians hijacked it........ he had a Legion consisting only of Christians, funny considering Marcus Aurelius considered Christians traitors, that prayed and god did the Thunder and Lightning stuff.......


Um, okay. Relevance ?

What exactly is your source for "Christians hijacking the story of Marcus Aurelius in Czechia" ? And where exactly was the story interpolated ??

(PS - Where in Czechia are you ? :)

tommy1808 wrote:
They are lawyers, they will consider anything as evidence that helps their case.


Kind of like how you rely on the eyewitness testimonies of the aforementioned Aurelian events in Czechia to make your point ?

tommy1808 wrote:
Eyewitnesses are fairly useless. Remember we have an eyewitness autograph of freaking Egyptian magic, smack in the middle of Rome, seen by lots of other eyewitnesses and no one felt a need to contradict it. That is how "good" eye witnesses are.


My friend, no offense, but your words betray a gross ignorance of Historical Methodology; by your own statement, the overwhelming majority of classical history must be dismissed.

Please: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method

tommy1808 wrote:
So, am I correct in that you don't believe that the earth orbits the sun, because astronomy is supported by "evidence" ?

I don´t think i ever used "believe" in this context even colloquially. Since there is no data contradicting it, that is just a fact to be accepted, not believed.


Bro, you are killing me. I implore you, study some epistemology. Sort your terms. You are jumping off a cliff with a noose around your neck, and as much as I wish I had the time & patience to walk you through this, I'm afraid that my job & family are higher responsibilities to me.

Best,
JD
The atheistic claim to "reason" is more a matter of public relations than competence in reasoned debate.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 2135
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:32 am

dik909 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
dik909 wrote:
So, what Scientific Evidence do you have that Caesar crossed the Rubicon ? What Scientific Evidence do you have that the Laws of Logic exist ??


Define your terms. What exactly do you want evidence for?


What terms would you like me to define ? After all, I did already give the scholarly definition of 'evidence' which I go by..

tommy1808 wrote:
And that is a classical apologist goal post moving, pretending that something that is claimed to have acted and has/had effects in our physical reality is a whole different question than does logic exist.


Forgive me, but you're misapplying the 'Moving the Goalposts' fallacy, which occurs in response to a request for evidence that has already been met. Further, simply asking questions is not "Moving the Goalposts." I asked you one set of questions - which you did not answer. Please, the questions stand: given your response on what you consider to be 'evidence,' I would like to know what 'evidence' you have for, etc.

tommy1808 wrote:
Btw, what is your definition of God


Maximally supreme being. And yours ?

tommy1808 wrote:
And isn´t "you can not proof that reality is real" the last chapter of the apologists handbook? There is no point arguing about anything without accepting that reality is real first.


Now we can properly identify an informal fallacy: Poisoning the Well. Please, accept my words as they stand without trying to cast disparities upon who I am, an apologist; you are equally an apologist for God being a myth, but I will not dismiss your words based solely on that fact alone.

(PS - Yes, we can prove that reality is real; to think otherwise is amateurish freshman-level mental masturbation; there's a reason that academic philosophers don't dwell upon such things)

tommy1808 wrote:
Trying to move goal post? But i´ll play: the god hypothesis has been tested time and time again, knowing more about God, his creation and how he did it, was after all the force that created science. Given that the hypothesis has failed every test we could devise so far, we always seem to find a natural explanation once we have figured out how to collect data, if becomes rather absurd to pursuit that hypothesis.


Once again, I have not asked you for further/greater "evidence" since you have not responded to me in the first place. You seem to be evading, though. I hope that is not the case.

What is the "natural explanation" for the Laws of Logic which your purported rationality presupposes ? What is the "natural explanation" for the origin/cause of the Big Bang ? What is the "natural explanation" for the Cambrian Explosion ?

I could go on & on, but I don't want to overload you, so please seriously engage with these few questions first.

tommy1808 wrote:
...the tests the god hypothesis has failed, that by your own definition have pretty much evidenced God out of existence, generally, not just a specific one. The "don´t know, don´t care, don´t do anything after holding a match to creation" God of the theists is the only possible god remaining, unless you want to believe in a god that fakes all the natural causes to.. mm.. be evil i guess.


Forgive me, but, what ? Is that supposed to be a coherent statement ?

tommy1808 wrote:
We have much, much more data supporting Marcus Aurelius miraculous victory in a battle against hordes of barbarians somewhere in today´s Czech Republic (or Slovakia), where the Egyptian sorcerer Harnouphis cast a spell to bring Hermes to destroy those barbarians with lightning and thunder.

We found an inscription from that time in the area, naming Harnouphis traveling with a roman legion, we have an eyewitness autograph describing the events smack in Rome, we have coins commemorating it, minted directly after the event. Religious people wouldn´t stop partying if they only had one of those..... if only the prior probability wasn´t that low. We have zero evidence for magic/miracle (both mean the same) being real, and hence all those bits of data still don´t make the event likely.

Most interesting about that story, Christians hijacked it........ he had a Legion consisting only of Christians, funny considering Marcus Aurelius considered Christians traitors, that prayed and god did the Thunder and Lightning stuff.......


Um, okay. Relevance ?

What exactly is your source for "Christians hijacking the story of Marcus Aurelius in Czechia" ? And where exactly was the story interpolated ??

(PS - Where in Czechia are you ? :)

tommy1808 wrote:
They are lawyers, they will consider anything as evidence that helps their case.


Kind of like how you rely on the eyewitness testimonies of the aforementioned Aurelian events in Czechia to make your point ?

tommy1808 wrote:
Eyewitnesses are fairly useless. Remember we have an eyewitness autograph of freaking Egyptian magic, smack in the middle of Rome, seen by lots of other eyewitnesses and no one felt a need to contradict it. That is how "good" eye witnesses are.


My friend, no offense, but your words betray a gross ignorance of Historical Methodology; by your own statement, the overwhelming majority of classical history must be dismissed.

Please: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method

tommy1808 wrote:
So, am I correct in that you don't believe that the earth orbits the sun, because astronomy is supported by "evidence" ?

I don´t think i ever used "believe" in this context even colloquially. Since there is no data contradicting it, that is just a fact to be accepted, not believed.


Bro, you are killing me. I implore you, study some epistemology. Sort your terms. You are jumping off a cliff with a noose around your neck, and as much as I wish I had the time & patience to walk you through this, I'm afraid that my job & family are higher responsibilities to me.

Best,
JD

There is no god as there is no evidence for it. You can try to twist people into knots with circular reasoning and semantics but the reality is that there is no evidence or reason for a god to exist.

I implore you to do something useful and helpful for your family rather than waste your time and theirs in adult fairy tales.

Fred


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dik909
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Re: Is

Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:29 am

flipdewaf wrote:
There is no god as there is no evidence for it. You can try to twist people into knots with circular reasoning and semantics but the reality is that there is no evidence or reason for a god to exist.

I implore you to do something useful and helpful for your family rather than waste your time and theirs in adult fairy tales.


Hence my original post asking what he/you/one think counts as "evidence." I followed this up with the academic Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy's definition, and maintained that to insist that "evidence" must be material will lead to an inconsistent worldview, in that materialists unknowingly presupposed many beliefs which cannot be materially proven. Protip: Inconsistency is a sign of a failed worldview.

Words matter. Definitions matter. If you dismiss my words and simply say (type?) "semantics" without providing any meaningful counter-argumentation, you can hardly expect to be taken seriously - at least by those who discuss these things seriously, beyond the pop culture level.

Could I not just as easily implore you to push beyond your comfort zone and study the works of strong theistic philosophers like Alvin Plantinga (Emeritus Professor of Philosophy at Notre Dame, and recent Templeton Prize winner), John Lennox (Professor of Mathematics & Philosophy of Science at Oxford University, England), William Lane Craig, C.S. Lewis, Norman Geisler, Frank Turek, and many many others... ? I think I could... All of these individuals have publicly debated notable "pop atheists" like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and have, by all objective analyses, won. Philosophy is what's missing from the scientistic worldview, and philosophy is the mother of science, for science could not operate without justified, orderly thinking.
The atheistic claim to "reason" is more a matter of public relations than competence in reasoned debate.

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