tommy1808
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Re: Is

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:55 am

flipdewaf wrote:
No, he's quite right. A human does does put out about 120w, my source said about 100w but that's close enough to not argue.


I am pretty sure your source says 100 Watt seconds or 100 Watt per hour, his 120W/s is a whole different ballgame and equivalent or burning ~4 gallons of gasoline per hours.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
apodino
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:34 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
apodino wrote:
couples would stay married for life, there would be no cheating, there would be no sexual abuse.


Out of serious interest:

1. Why would be staying married for life a pursuable proposition? Because religion told us? Or because there is any genetical and evolutionary evidence, that this is beneficial?
2. Cheating is a moral issue, not a god or no god issue. Why would it need a god? And is the moral not religiously created?
3. No sexual abuse??? The catholic church is dying laughing...


I dont think its any secret that the group of individuals hurt most by a divorce is the children that that marriage produced. Often times when adults don't make things work, they get divorced but don't realize the negative impact that it has on their children. I personally believe that a couple who puts their marriage before anything else is doing what is best for their kids. This means regular communication, date nights, and regular sex. I also need not remind you that divorce is usually not a friendly thing at all, and it ends up creating resentment and other issues.

As for cheating, its a moral issue but a very serious one. Now I am not going to go on about things like Polyamory or Swinging. But I suspect that most couples are monogamous, and that they assume that their partner is their only sexual partner. When this happens, it builds trust between partners and trust is very important. When one person or the other goes and seeks intimacy elsewhere, it violates that sacred trust that the partners have between each other.

As for the Catholic Church and the sex abuse scandal let me say this. The sex abuse scandal was a situation where the church was not following their own teaching on the subject. Remember what I said. If everyone followed that teaching, we would not have the issues we have. The issue is not with the teaching, but the fact that many did not follow that teaching and that it was covered up. Truthfully speaking, if Jesus did not institute the Eucharist at the last supper as I believe he did, I would not be a Catholic today. I believe that the Catholic Church was established by Jesus. I also know that we are all sinners, so no one person follows all of the teachings ever. If we did we would not need church. I know I have fallen short more times than I can count.

I know many of you are atheists and that is fine. I would be interested in a discussion on some of my beliefs. I think you would be quite surprised. I know for certain WarRI would be.
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:06 pm

apodino wrote:
couples would stay married for life, there would be ................ no sexual abuse.
How absurd!
apodino wrote:
I dont think its any secret that the group of individuals hurt most by a divorce is the children that that marriage produced. Often times when adults don't make things work, they get divorced but don't realize the negative impact that it has on their children. I personally believe that a couple who puts their marriage before anything else is doing what is best for their kids.
Have you ever given any thought to the experience of children who live in a constant battle zone where their parents have grown to detest each other but are "staying together for the children"? Having lived through such an experience I can tell you that is the worst of all options.
apodino wrote:
This means regular communication, date nights, and regular sex.
Are you really so shallow as to regurgitate such meaningless, thoughtless advice; what throwaway pamphlet did you get that from?
apodino wrote:
I also need not remind you that divorce is usually not a friendly thing at all, and it ends up creating resentment and other issues.
You're confusing cause and effect.
apodino wrote:
As for cheating, its a moral issue but a very serious one. Now I am not going to go on about things like Polyamory or Swinging. But I suspect that most couples are monogamous, and that they assume that their partner is their only sexual partner. When this happens, it builds trust between partners and trust is very important. When one person or the other goes and seeks intimacy elsewhere, it violates that sacred trust that the partners have between each other.
It is a serious issue if someone wishes to make it so. Usually, the worst part of "cheating" (if it really is "cheating") comes from the feelings of jealousy that are created.
apodino wrote:
I would be interested in a discussion on some of my beliefs.
I would like for you to tell us more about yourself; I'm curious about how any person could grow up to adulthood with such a shallow understanding of human nature as you project.
 
flipdewaf
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Is "god" a myth?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:39 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
No, he's quite right. A human does does put out about 120w, my source said about 100w but that's close enough to not argue.


I am pretty sure your source says 100 Watt seconds or 100 Watt per hour, his 120W/s is a whole different ballgame and equivalent or burning ~4 gallons of gasoline per hours.

best regards
Thomas

Watts are a measure of power or rate of output/use of energy. Energy is measured in joules and the watt is joules per second. Watts per hour or watts per second would in fact be a rate of change of energy.

To boil the bathtub of water dry that you talked about (~100kg) would be

100x(4180 x 80{difference in temp} + 2257000 {enthalpy of evaporation}.

It would take 25 days but if course that would mean that there would be the same useful heat transfer from the body to the water and that there were no losses. A fun exercise for a not so closet geek however.

Fred

Edit: I get about 8 liters of petrol.


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apodino
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:16 pm

salttee wrote:
apodino wrote:
couples would stay married for life, there would be ................ no sexual abuse.
How absurd!
apodino wrote:
I dont think its any secret that the group of individuals hurt most by a divorce is the children that that marriage produced. Often times when adults don't make things work, they get divorced but don't realize the negative impact that it has on their children. I personally believe that a couple who puts their marriage before anything else is doing what is best for their kids.
Have you ever given any thought to the experience of children who live in a constant battle zone where their parents have grown to detest each other but are "staying together for the children"? Having lived through such an experience I can tell you that is the worst of all options.
apodino wrote:
This means regular communication, date nights, and regular sex.
Are you really so shallow as to regurgitate such meaningless, thoughtless advice; what throwaway pamphlet did you get that from?
apodino wrote:
I also need not remind you that divorce is usually not a friendly thing at all, and it ends up creating resentment and other issues.
You're confusing cause and effect.
apodino wrote:
As for cheating, its a moral issue but a very serious one. Now I am not going to go on about things like Polyamory or Swinging. But I suspect that most couples are monogamous, and that they assume that their partner is their only sexual partner. When this happens, it builds trust between partners and trust is very important. When one person or the other goes and seeks intimacy elsewhere, it violates that sacred trust that the partners have between each other.
It is a serious issue if someone wishes to make it so. Usually, the worst part of "cheating" (if it really is "cheating") comes from the feelings of jealousy that are created.
apodino wrote:
I would be interested in a discussion on some of my beliefs.
I would like for you to tell us more about yourself; I'm curious about how any person could grow up to adulthood with such a shallow understanding of human nature as you project.

You post actually tells me a lot. And honestly my heart breaks for you reading what you went through in the household. No child should ever have to go through that. While I do believe that most couples should try to work things out for the sake of the kids, the sad thing is in your situation it was not for the best. I don't know how to remedy those situations, and I hope that going forward we can do more to prevent them from happening.

As for the rest of the post, you are the second person in this thread to treat cheating as a trivial matter. When you pledge your love to someone and then end up with someone else, that violates the trust you and that other person have. That is serious.

Let me ask you one more thing. Do you believe that sex is a selfless act, or selfish?
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:06 am

Back to the original question......

Probably.
Hope this helps.
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu May 03, 2018 5:47 am

"Watts per second" is not a measure of power, Watts are a measure of power. The basal metabolic rate of humans is variously quoted (in the more reputable links I bothered to click) as between 70 to 105 Watts, with the brain alone accounting for about 20% of that - sadly not always to good end.

Intuitively, this is about right - put your hand on a hundred watt light bulb. Now increase the surface area of said bulb to the size of an average human body. Etc.
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Thu May 03, 2018 5:52 am

BN747 wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:

On a personal level, I am still agnostic, with leanings which could be described as animist. Perhaps I'm even still a little militant: if I don't know and you don't either, that goes equally for atheists and believers. :spin:


"An Agnostic is an Atheist without Balls"...Bill Maher

Bill Maher wouldn't be my first choice to promote anything, given that the guy built a brand on smug superiority. Then again, when it comes to capital-A Atheists (the ones who can't wait to tell you about it), if the shoe fits... :duck: :stirthepot:
 
Electronpusher9
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 13, 2018 9:07 pm

Why believe anything that science tells you when you have been lied to about things since elementary school. Not a mistake but purposely lied to. Nothing that deals with God, creation but everyday celestial mechanics.
The moon is a satellite of earth when it isn't. You learn this in astrophysics or amateur astronomy . The Earth and moon are sister planets. They orbit around a common center of gravity about 500 miles above the earth's surface. This doesn't meet the definition of a satellite. Why not tell us this?
Go's to show that what we are taught isn't always the truth and isn't that what science is suppose to be about? The truth?

Have at it folks. I am eagerly waiting to hear.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 13, 2018 10:11 pm

Electronpusher9 wrote:
The Earth and moon are sister planets. They orbit around a common center of gravity about 500 miles above the earth's surface. This doesn't meet the definition of a satellite. Why not tell us this?
Go's to show that what we are taught isn't always the truth and isn't that what science is suppose to be about? The truth?

Have at it folks. I am eagerly waiting to hear.

Off topic but... ummm.... no. You are wrong. The center of mass and rotation is well within the Earth's radius. Not above its surface, between the Earth and Moon as you proclaim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter

The moon and Earth are not "sister planets".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Freakysh
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 13, 2018 10:17 pm

I don't think God exists.

Just because we don't understand something in our environment or how we came to be, doesn't mean God is the answer by default.

However, I don't begrudge those that do believe in God, each to their own.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 3:10 am

Like a Priest once asked me long ago, are you willing to bet 80 short years here against Eternity? I have never forgotten that. I ask where did this all start to myself as I get older. The Big Bang? How did that happen? The perfect alignment of the Planets in our solar system, How did that happen? The endless space, where did that come from? I do not know, but I remember the Priest's words.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 3:30 am

are you willing to bet 80 short years here against Eternity?

The perfect answer to that:
A man needs a god like a fish needs a bicycle.

Answer em with his own logic.
 
bagoldex
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 3:38 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Like a Priest once asked me long ago, are you willing to bet 80 short years here against Eternity? I have never forgotten that. I ask where did this all start to myself as I get older. The Big Bang? How did that happen? The perfect alignment of the Planets in our solar system, How did that happen? The endless space, where did that come from? I do not know, but I remember the Priest's words.


Catholic guilt at its finest.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 3:46 am

salttee wrote:
are you willing to bet 80 short years here against Eternity?

The perfect answer to that:
A man needs a god like a fish needs a bicycle.

Answer em with his own logic.


Ok, so answer the questions or explain the statements I made. How did this all happen or start? Whatever started the Big Bang, where did material come from that formed these perfectly aligned planets? Was it delivered by a dump truck?
Last edited by WarRI1 on Mon May 14, 2018 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 3:51 am

bagoldex wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Like a Priest once asked me long ago, are you willing to bet 80 short years here against Eternity? I have never forgotten that. I ask where did this all start to myself as I get older. The Big Bang? How did that happen? The perfect alignment of the Planets in our solar system, How did that happen? The endless space, where did that come from? I do not know, but I remember the Priest's words.


Catholic guilt at its finest.



I have no Catholic Guilt, I think, I wonder, where did it start, how did it start.? As I said, just answer the unanswerable. What was wrong asking the question about 80 years versus Eternity? Tell me the answer to the questions posed, not accusations. Anyone who does not wonder is very shallow to me. What is it Magic??? From nothing to what we have? So someone asking about Eternity is no less rational than believing there is a God, or wondering if there is. The unanswerable question for all, so no rationality or irrationality involved. Just a mystery.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 4:03 am

The question implies that the questioner (or his friends) have some power over this thing called eternity.
That is known as the false appeal to authority fallacy.

Magic is sleight of hand.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 4:26 am

salttee wrote:
The question implies that the questioner (or his friends) have some power over this thing called eternity.
That is known as the false appeal to authority fallacy.

Magic is sleight of hand.


Not the way to take the question at all. All he implied with his question is, not that there is or was a God, but are you willing to gamble that there is not a God? If there is not, take your 80 supposed years and enjoy them anyway you may choose, but if you are wrong and there is a God, you may suffer for your lack of belief or your choice to live an immoral life style, whatever that maybe. A Price to pay if you are wrong, a gamble, nothing more, nothing less. Playing the odds its called in a Casino. A professional Gambler probably understands the question more than most. High Stakes, big winning, or big losing. I am not a gambler by trade or habit, so I try to keep my hand in just in case by living a moderate lifestyle. As I sit here at 79 years of age, the answer is coming fast for me and you as well. tempus fugit memento mori.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
salttee
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 4:38 am

The question depends on the assumptions not only that there is a god, but also that this god extracts vengeance on people who don't believe in it. A casino's games have odds, these odds can be determined and expressed mathematically. The premise put forth in your example has no applicable odds, the premise is but a figment of someone's imagination.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 4:58 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Ok, so answer the questions or explain the statements I made. How did this all happen or start? Whatever started the Big Bang, where did material come from that formed these perfectly aligned planets? Was it delivered by a dump truck?

Where did "God" come from. Answer that.

And as far as "eternity vs 80years" goes I firmly believe that any "loving [whatever]" would never (NEVER) turn away someone/their "child" if they did their best within their limitations. Never. I am 100% confident in that.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 14, 2018 5:44 am

Tugger wrote:
Electronpusher9 wrote:
The Earth and moon are sister planets. They orbit around a common center of gravity about 500 miles above the earth's surface. This doesn't meet the definition of a satellite. Why not tell us this?
Go's to show that what we are taught isn't always the truth and isn't that what science is suppose to be about? The truth?

Have at it folks. I am eagerly waiting to hear.

Off topic but... ummm.... no. You are wrong. The center of mass and rotation is well within the Earth's radius. Not above its surface, between the Earth and Moon as you proclaim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter

The moon and Earth are not "sister planets".

Tugg


Even if it was right, the moon still wouldn´t qualify as planet.

WarRI1 wrote:
Not the way to take the question at all. All he implied with his question is, not that there is or was a God, but are you willing to gamble that there is not a God?


that is called "Pascal's Wager" and is one of the oldest pieces of non sense fed to believers.

If there is not, take your 80 supposed years and enjoy them anyway you may choose, but if you are wrong and there is a God, you may suffer for your lack of belief or your choice to live an immoral life style, whatever that maybe. A Price to pay if you are wrong, a gamble, nothing more, nothing less. Playing the odds its called in a Casino. A professional Gambler probably understands the question more than most. High Stakes, big winning, or big losing. I am not a gambler by trade or habit, so I try to keep my hand in just in case by living a moderate lifestyle. As I sit here at 79 years of age, the answer is coming fast for me and you as well. tempus fugit memento mori.


That is full logical problems.

- if a god exists, you have no way of finding out which one does in fact exist. Given that there are tens of millions of gods, not believing in a god at all has almost exactly the same betting odds than believing in any single one of them.
- that slight different in odds is offset by the probability of that real existing god being more angry about believing in the wrong one instead of not believing in one at all.
- it assumed that faking believe works on an all knowing, all powerful god. That would probably work on the God in the early old testament, that wasn´t all knowing and had to physically go places to check stuff out, but probably not on any of the popular gods, i.e. it wouldn´t work on the God the priest is suggesting you rather try to fool.
- lying is a sin for that particular god, so an honest atheist can be without sin, he won´t have another god before him after all, while you are virtually guaranteed to believe in the wrong god.
- it has the assumption that it need religious texts to live a moral live, while in fact ethics transcend religion (regardless of country, gender, religion or lack there off and education people answer the same to ethical dilemmas), while the super devoted are considered immoral by a good chunk of everyone living. Few people call Islam terrorists "good" and parents that let their children die a horrible death because they refuse medical treatment or even pain killers are also only considered "good and moral" by few. We have morals despite religion, not because of it.

murderparents wrote:
Elizabeth Ashley King, age 12, died June 5, 1988, in Phoenix, Arizona, of bone cancer. She was out of school and sick at home from November 1987 to May 1988. Though school officials knew the Kings were Christian Scientists, they allowed the parents to set up a home study program for the girl. In May, alarmed neighbors (not the school officials) realized they had not seen Ashley for months and notified Child Protective Services. A court order was obtained to have Ashley examined at Phoenix Children's Hospital.

Doctors determined that Ashley had bone cancer that had progressed too far to be arrested with medical treatment. The tumor on her leg was over one yard in circumference; it had metastasized to her lungs. Her heart had enlarged from the strain of pumping extra blood to the tumor. Ashley told nurses and doctors: "I'm in so much pain...You don't know how I've suffered."

Given the terminal prognosis, the state agreed to have Ashley placed in a Phoenix Christian Science nursing home. This was done despite the protests of one of the doctors who examined Ashley: he said Ashley was experiencing one of the worst kinds of pain known to mankind. Ashley died 24 hours after being committed to the home. Nursing home records show 71 calls to the Christian Science "practitioner" for "treatment" (i.e., prayer) of Ashley's pain. Indeed, this is the only kind of treatment a Christian Science nursing home will provide for pain. The parents, John and Catherine King, pleaded no contest to the felony of reckless endangerment in their daughter's death


When she was screaming in agony, bone cancer causes about the most horrible pain known to men, the nurses in that nursing home told her to stop because she was disturbing other patients.

They acted in total accordance to the Bible, yet to you consider them moral and good? They should have gotten life in prison, they got three years of unsupervised probation for torturing their own flesh and blood to death.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 15, 2018 2:55 am

salttee wrote:
The question depends on the assumptions not only that there is a god, but also that this god extracts vengeance on people who don't believe in it. A casino's games have odds, these odds can be determined and expressed mathematically. The premise put forth in your example has no applicable odds, the premise is but a figment of someone's imagination.



You nor I or anyone else can prove, or disprove one thing about the Big Bang, or Creation. We can argue and argue to no avail, so for anyone to say there is not a God, or there is a God is meaningless. No one knows until death. My Parish Priest asked me all those years ago, are you willing to gamble? Nothing more, nothing less. Some obviously are willing to gamble, some are not. Life as we know is a puzzle without a solution. As I said, I am not a gambler, it is a losing proposition. I was just at the Casino where I watched all the gamblers, not many smiles among them. I did not bet one dime either.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 15, 2018 2:58 am

Tugger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Ok, so answer the questions or explain the statements I made. How did this all happen or start? Whatever started the Big Bang, where did material come from that formed these perfectly aligned planets? Was it delivered by a dump truck?

Where did "God" come from. Answer that.

And as far as "eternity vs 80years" goes I firmly believe that any "loving [whatever]" would never (NEVER) turn away someone/their "child" if they did their best within their limitations. Never. I am 100% confident in that.

Tugg


Where did the material that makes up the planets and stars come from? Answer that. I asked that question last night, I did not see an answer.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 15, 2018 5:07 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Ok, so answer the questions or explain the statements I made. How did this all happen or start? Whatever started the Big Bang, where did material come from that formed these perfectly aligned planets? Was it delivered by a dump truck?

Where did "God" come from. Answer that.

And as far as "eternity vs 80years" goes I firmly believe that any "loving [whatever]" would never (NEVER) turn away someone/their "child" if they did their best within their limitations. Never. I am 100% confident in that.

Tugg


Where did the material that makes up the planets and stars come from? Answer that. I asked that question last night, I did not see an answer.

IT all came from the exact same place, but with your theory that god might/must/might as well exist necessitates that she existed before all that. So if you are demanding some kind of an answer for your question in order to not believe in goddess then you must accept that you need that same answer for god to exist. (Because if you just say "God always existed" then that is the same answer for where the planets and stars but with science and physics at work.)

Also I play with the terms but is God a female? Can god be female, do you envision her as such?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Where did the material that makes up the planets and stars come from? Answer that. I asked that question last night, I did not see an answer.


From nothing of course. And what material do you actually refer to? I don´t know what the state of school physics was when you went, but when i went school just started teaching that neutrons and protons are made up of three quarks. Now what i didn´t learn in school anymore, is that those quarks, if you measure their mass just make up ~1% of the protons/neutrons mass. The other 99% are virtual particles, they are called virtual because we can not directly measure them due to Heisenbergs uncertainty principle, but they are very real. Those pop in and out of existence, from nothing and back into nothing, all the time and make up almost all the mass around you.
Particles, "real" or virtual, are however just fields anyways, to quote a nice clear paper headline: "There are no particles, there are only fields" (Art Hobson, American Journal of Physics 81, 211 (2013)), so everything you think of as "Material" is effectively no different from the radio-waves you listen to on your radio.

And everything you or i would consider material makes up less than 5% of the observable Universe, 23% is dark matter, 72% is dark energy. We can measure the effects of both, but we have no idea how it is made or what it is.

Unless you define what exactly you mean by "material" that answer can´t be answered even in principle.

WarRI1 wrote:
You nor I or anyone else can prove, or disprove one thing about the Big Bang, or Creation.


Sure we can. Science is all about probabilities and any hypothesis that fails in a single test, failed completely. Every single prediction any religion made so far about the physical reality has been proven wrong as far as i am aware. That means they are proven completely wrong. That doesn´t mean there ain´t a god or creator, but that does mean that no religion on earth has found him yet. As long as your brand of Christianity is bible based, it is disproven. Creation didn´t happen in 7 days, the universe is not 10k years old, the earth is not flat, the sky is not made out of water, the stars didn´t come after earth (and the Sun is just a star, so where did the light come from without stars?) and plants didn´t come after animals and there are no sea monsters. The bible is solidly disproven.

My Parish Priest asked me all those years ago, are you willing to gamble? Nothing more, nothing less. Some obviously are willing to gamble, some are not. Life as we know is a puzzle without a solution. As I said, I am not a gambler, it is a losing proposition. I was just at the Casino where I watched all the gamblers, not many smiles among them. I did not bet one dime either.


you are missing the point. You are gambling just as much as anyone else. You gamble that the God you happen to believe in is the right one, and as said above, if that God is bible based you´ve already lost the bet, non-believers gamble there is no God at all. If the chance of there not being a good is just a tenth of a percent, the chance of winning is still bigger than for any god of any religion.

You are not just gambling, you are gambling against bigger odds than the people you call gamblers.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Richard28
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 16, 2018 2:04 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
are you willing to gamble that there is not a God? If there is not, take your 80 supposed years and enjoy them anyway you may choose, but if you are wrong and there is a God, you may suffer for your lack of belief or your choice to live an immoral life style, whatever that maybe. .


but which God should you gamble on? there are thousands, pick the wrong one and you'll end up in hell (if there is one!) anyway!

Solution: just be a good person, be nice to people, be happy, let people live their lives if they don't interfere with yours.

Should at the end any God (should they exist) not be happy with that, then they were not worth praying to in the first place.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Wed May 16, 2018 2:09 pm

Richard28 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
are you willing to gamble that there is not a God? If there is not, take your 80 supposed years and enjoy them anyway you may choose, but if you are wrong and there is a God, you may suffer for your lack of belief or your choice to live an immoral life style, whatever that maybe. .


but which God should you gamble on? there are thousands, .


you missed three or four zero´s ;-)

Hinduism alone has millions over millions, or one.....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 am

I have never seen such quibbling and BS before on here, none of you have any answer to a unanswerable question, yet you do try. No matter, you keep going on. I will ask again, where and when did it all start ? Neutrons Protons, and Quarks included. Let us see now, I live a decent life, or a maybe a dull life for all I know. As the Priest said ???
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Tugger
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri May 18, 2018 3:37 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I have never seen such quibbling and BS before on here, none of you have any answer to a unanswerable question, yet you do try. No matter, you keep going on. I will ask again, where and when did it all start ? Neutrons Protons, and Quarks included. Let us see now, I live a decent life, or a maybe a dull life for all I know. As the Priest said ???

Sorry I thought you were participating in a thread that was asking "is god a myth?" So the quibbling is part of the topic. Also the BS for many is the idea that something imaginary to those people makes others be cruel or destructive to others.

As to your comment about something being "unanswerable", its not unanswerable, it is unprovable to an absolute degree. And so not unlike your question, except yours has no basis in anything provable while the other answers do have a basis in science and physics and the observable universe some of which is/has been proven, The choice is yours of course, FOr me personally I just find the answer you are postulating to your question is more tenuous than the the other answers.

If there is a god, something "after" this life we know, I am fully confident that it will exist and be available to me whether I believe in it or not.

But that is me. You may always do and believe as you see fit but don't expect me to follow your "logic". There is no harm in believing what you wish as long as you require it of no one else. (I actually respect you but not necessarily the argument, which hope you are OK with.)

Tugg
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WarRI1
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri May 18, 2018 4:26 am

Tugger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
I have never seen such quibbling and BS before on here, none of you have any answer to a unanswerable question, yet you do try. No matter, you keep going on. I will ask again, where and when did it all start ? Neutrons Protons, and Quarks included. Let us see now, I live a decent life, or a maybe a dull life for all I know. As the Priest said ???

Sorry I thought you were participating in a thread that was asking "is god a myth?" So the quibbling is part of the topic. Also the BS for many is the idea that something imaginary to those people makes others be cruel or destructive to others.

As to your comment about something being "unanswerable", its not unanswerable, it is unprovable to an absolute degree. And so not unlike your question, except yours has no basis in anything provable while the other answers do have a basis in science and physics and the observable universe some of which is/has been proven, The choice is yours of course, FOr me personally I just find the answer you are postulating to your question is more tenuous than the the other answers.

If there is a god, something "after" this life we know, I am fully confident that it will exist and be available to me whether I believe in it or not.

But that is me. You may always do and believe as you see fit but don't expect me to follow your "logic". There is no harm in believing what you wish as long as you require it of no one else. (I actually respect you but not necessarily the argument, which hope you are OK with.)

Tugg



I have not a problem with discussion, or disagreements with my side of an argument. I made the point about a Priest asking me a question many years ago. I never said that I am a true believer of Science or Creation, I have my doubts also as to what or where we come from also, but I wonder. My main point was that nobody knows or will ever know until one dies. I always question, where this all started. Where did the material once again come from for the Big Bang. A rock? Where did the first rock come from? Gases? Explosions, ending up with what we have?

I have a problem believing this is all an accident. I look at nature alone and say to myself, is this the result of an explosion? Is this creature something that evolved? Where did the evolution begin? How was what evolved created or began? I said BS because nobody will ever know while they are alive. There is no solution, so I posed the question that if you lead a good life for x amount of years, and there is a Supreme Being who rewards one for living a good a life, you win the gamble for eternity, not for X amount of years. Who knows, but I wonder.
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri May 18, 2018 5:30 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Where did the material once again come from for the Big Bang.


as far as we know just a quantum fluctuation, as far as we can see the total energy content of the Universe seems to be zero. Matter, Energy and all that is probably best described as noise, and the sense that you would use the word during measurements.

A rock? Where did the first rock come from?


I would argue that there probably never was [a]a[/b] first rock. On the large scale it is pretty hard to say what happened first, because time is a function of the observer, and the first rock my just seem as the first, because it is the closes one to see for us. But that is just semantics.

Rocks came, just like everything that isn´t Hydrogen, a little Helium and maybe traces of Lithium, from exploding suns. You can fusion Hydrogen until you get iron, for heavier elements you need a nova or supernova to provide the energy to make anything heavier. We are star dust.

Gases?


Aside of Hydrogen and Helium, same as above.And they came together about ~300k years after the big bang, when free electrons where bound into Atoms with Protons and Neutrons. That is as far as we can currently look back, but with gravitation wave telescopes we will be able to look further. When the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna gets shot into space in 16 years, and gets as good as engineering progress would make it seem, we will be able to look back to somewhere 10^ -43 seconds and 10^ -36 seconds after the big bang. At that time the Universe was about 10^ -35 metres big,
To put that into perspective, about the tiniest particle you may be able to make out with your own eyes, lets say 0.005mm size (~0.0002 inch) is about as big compared to the whole observable universe as that speck of dust is to the whole universe at that time, it is half way between the two.

Explosions, ending up with what we have?


quantum fluctuation

I have a problem believing this is all an accident.


Really? How come you do believe in a God? He /she/It must have come from somewhere too, and what is a more likely accident, one that creates a fairly simple universe that in the end may be perfectly describable in just one formula, or an all knowing, all powerful being just coming into existence.

I look at nature alone and say to myself, is this the result of an explosion?


Since we have overwhelming evidence for that explosion, yeah, this is the result of the explosion. We even have a picture of the fireball:
Image

Is this creature something that evolved?


Obviously, people tried to disproof evolution since Darwin, expanding considerable money and resources for doing so and came up with nothing at all. So, yeah.. evolution is a fact, and we can see it and make it happen in the lap.

Where did the evolution begin? How was what evolved created or began?


Now that is an interesting question we can not answer yet. But given how fast the building blocks of life form if you just toss some chemicals together and add some energy, life may very well be just a more or less rare chemical accident. The Universe is big and old.

I said BS because nobody will ever know while they are alive


There is a fairly good chance that plenty of the people alive today will get to see the answer to that. Probably not you or me, but younger people.

There is no solution, so I posed the question that if you lead a good life for x amount of years, and there is a Supreme Being who rewards one for living a good a life, you win the gamble for eternity, not for X amount of years. Who knows, but I wonder.


You didn´t answer the crucial question though, or i didn´t see it: How do you decide which god to believe in? Maybe Ba´al is the real true god, and according to scripture he will be major league angry with you for believing in the God you do believe in after all.

And how do you know it will help, after all Jews believe in the same God as you do, but according to many revelation loving Christians, they ultimately will just be a blood sacrifice to bring back Jesus, and burn in hell for not converting to Christianity in time.... but maybe one of the other Jewish sects will get it right?

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Fri May 18, 2018 7:05 am

WarRI1 wrote:

Where did the material that makes up the planets and stars come from? Answer that. I asked that question last night, I did not see an answer.


From the same place that the material that God comes from no doubt....from nothing.

You can accept that God came from nothing (the Bible states that God has no beginning nor end, he as always just been around), why can't you accept that the universe came from nothing? Otherwise who created God and so on and so on. Something had to have come from nothing!
 
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat May 19, 2018 2:56 am

ou didn´t answer the crucial question though, or i didn´t see it: How do you decide which god to believe in? Maybe Ba´al is the real true god, and according to scripture he will be major league angry with you for believing in the God you do believe in after all.

And how do you know it will help, after all Jews believe in the same God as you do, but according to many revelation loving Christians, they ultimately will just be a blood sacrifice to bring back Jesus, and burn in hell for not converting to Christianity in time.... but maybe one of the other Jewish sects will get it right?


You guys keep putting out more questions than answers. I never said I was a believer in any particular religion, I told a story of a question, by a Priest, a Catholic Priest. I said I wonder, not believe. Where did the first molecule come from, how did the conditions exist for the Big Bang or Evolution start? Where did time and space come from? Scientifically explain the beginning of it all. It is as far fetched to believe an accident caused us to be here as it is to believe in a Supreme Deity that may exist. I have to wonder, don't you all??
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat May 19, 2018 3:02 am

Barny123 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

Where did the material that makes up the planets and stars come from? Answer that. I asked that question last night, I did not see an answer.


From the same place that the material that God comes from no doubt....from nothing.

You can accept that God came from nothing (the Bible states that God has no beginning nor end, he as always just been around), why can't you accept that the universe came from nothing? Otherwise who created God and so on and so on. Something had to have come from nothing!



Prove it. that is all I ask. I have never read the Bible, it was written by man, so I do not trust it. What I do trust is that we exist without any proof of how. I see, I hear, I know we exist and I know I have been blessed in life by something. Maybe I am just lucky without going to a Casino. I wonder how, don't you?? ;)
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat May 19, 2018 4:44 am

I guess I take issue with today and the people that weren't killed that are saying "God was watching out for me"... So what does that mean for all the ones that were shot or killed? God single them out to be shot and killed? That is what that is saying in my ears/mind.

I have had that moment where I am holding my child and looking to the sky, to "god", and saying: "don't you dare... don't you fucking dare take this child from this world. Don't." Because if there is a creature out there that will kill those on Earth or dictate who will get killed.., I'm sorry that is not a creature I respect.

I don't need to have proof of how the world and universe came into existence to know that proof like "god was looking out for me and wanted those others to be killed..." tells me this being is not what I value. But this is me, I am not speaking for you and your experiences.

Tugg
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sat May 19, 2018 7:10 am

My beliefs are that there is something there; some kind of structure that underpins our Universe. It's more to do with life than creation, if that makes sense.

The Big Bang created an outpouring of energy and in the first few seconds of the Universe's life, this resulted in a vast inflation of spacetime. Particles also condensed from the almost infinite sea of energy, and this would create the element hydrogen as well as a few other simple ones such as helium. This then condensed in places into hypergiant stars that lived fast and hot lives, eventually exploding as supernovae that fused its remaining fuel and fusion products into the heavier elements. These then collected in accretion discs around the next generation of stars that accreted from the hydrogen that was still plentiful. The result after many millennia was a planetary system around stars that exist in a single plane.

Life, or the animating force of matter, underlies all of this. It exists in the higher dimensions and if you want to call this force God, then it's as good a name as anything else. We come from this force and to it we return as our time here expires.

But that's just me.
 
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 20, 2018 2:40 am

Is God a Myth....

Apparently not to this couple... one Mr. & Mrs. Harry & Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor, known to you as the Duke & Duchess of Sussex.

Their wedding service was overseen by the Right Reverend David Conner. He begins his address at 5:17 in the wedding ceremony.

He speaks as though he thinks the God he believes in actually created and defined what Christian Marriage is for himself and for those he's marrying ! ! !

https://youtu.be/vn2rSYxjqaI?t=5m13s
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 20, 2018 2:45 am

Well glad you settled that for everyone
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 20, 2018 2:48 am

Channex757 wrote:
My beliefs are that there is something there; some kind of structure that underpins our Universe. It's more to do with life than creation, if that makes sense.

The Big Bang created an outpouring of energy and in the first few seconds of the Universe's life, this resulted in a vast inflation of spacetime. Particles also condensed from the almost infinite sea of energy, and this would create the element hydrogen as well as a few other simple ones such as helium. This then condensed in places into hypergiant stars that lived fast and hot lives, eventually exploding as supernovae that fused its remaining fuel and fusion products into the heavier elements. These then collected in accretion discs around the next generation of stars that accreted from the hydrogen that was still plentiful. The result after many millennia was a planetary system around stars that exist in a single plane.

Life, or the animating force of matter, underlies all of this. It exists in the higher dimensions and if you want to call this force God, then it's as good a name as anything else. We come from this force and to it we return as our time here expires.

But that's just me.


Nicely put, but initiating force holds the underpinnings of life throughout the universe, then it equally holds the reigns that dictate destruction.


But yes God is a myth. Him/her and all the other so-called 'gods'.

God is an geo-centric concept. Only humans thought up this notion. Not whales (who've been on the planet 25 million years before humans)...but humans, men thought this shit up.

The same men who whipped up such vicious names put upon women (simply because a woman dared to display any pleasure during the act of sex.) not the B-word, not the C-word...but they called them whores and Harlots, see the Bible. The same Goat-herders refused the coin an applicable term to THEMSELVES for worse conduct , because it is they who are the sexual aggressors (99.9%) of the time.

So, take these same minds at their words (and writings) and gop out side tomorrow....stare up at the Sun, point to it and them repeat "I will out live you because some Iron Age scholars said I would!'

Then start feeling pretty delusional if you believe ONE word of that nonsense.

Earth is Earth because we call it that. Were there thinking sentient beings on Mars, they would not call Earth .. Earth. They'd also ask..'What the Hell is Mars? ..and who are you calling a Martian?'

We humans have figured out a few this about this vast Universe (of many), but few of us are aware that it takes 220 to 250 million or so years for this huge ass Milky Way Galaxy to complete a single rotation...meaning that we haven't been around but a fraction of a half of a %. Basically as much as we know...we don't know shit. Sure we know volumes and volumes vs what the Goat Herders knew.
But even then, what we know today is but a fraction of what is to be known.

And if any human is able to be alive to witness true revelations and wonders of the Galaxy & this Universe it completely overtake ALL that we know today. But I give a ton of credit to Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy, Giordano Bruno, Nickolas Copernicus, Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Newton, James Clarke Maxwell, Father George LaMaitre, Edwin Hubble, Niels Bohr, Einstein to Alan Guth and Ed Witten...we stand on their shoulders we it comes to understanding what has occurred today and how to look forward. But the God of the Bible, the Quran, the Torah and these other fairy tale scribblings is just that and wishful thinking....and nothing more.

BN747
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Sun May 20, 2018 8:21 pm

WIederling wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Most of the early US statesmen were deists, and that was not unacceptable for many of the churches. And it still isn't. Churches have a number of functions, contrary to some of the biased comments on this thread. Most fellow religious people I know would, if asked "just who is this god worshipped at your meetings" would run in the other direction. Religion is about people, and good religion, in my view, is about believing and acting upon the belief that we humans need to live in community, on the face of the whole earth.


Considering the strong correlation between disfunctional societies and religion I don't think so.

We really don't care how you express that belief.


No one is born a religious nutjob, belief without evidence is at best harmless, but often harmful.


Recently seen one documentary on the Conquistadores.
One theory pushed was that the Spaniards absolute and unwavering belief in their religion
entailing their anointed superiority over anything else pretending to be human
(hand in hand with complete lack of mirror empathy ) was instrumental to their
subjugating vast areas with very limited manpower.

So belief provides some kind of power over more objective, less self centric sentients.

The same kind of unwavering belief even in the face of dismal failure to achieve
anything worthwhile brought the dark ages.
Only starting to actually think logical and look at cause and results
brought today's standards of achievements ( health, living, ...but also weapons. )

A good balance between reason and belief would be nice.

What we see today is the return of the staunch unwavering believer.
Today they win, tomorrow they will defecate into their water supply because "god wants it this way".

Next cycle.
wiederling, just want to say this was an enjoyable post, thank you. Defacating into water supplies because god wants it that way. Pure gold.
 
LMP737
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 21, 2018 1:10 am

I like the late George Carlin's take on this subject. "So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results." ;)
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 21, 2018 6:05 am

If I cant see, touch, smell, or hear. Then it does not exist. Therefore I believe God is a myth . Along with the tooth fairy, Santa and the Easter bunny. All of which have been dreamt up over time to create the fantasy that is religion and fairy tales.
Flame bait me if you wish, but the question was asked and I replied with mt views

An767
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 21, 2018 9:59 am

An767 wrote:
If I cant see, touch, smell, or hear. Then it does not exist. Therefore I believe God is a myth . Along with the tooth fairy, Santa and the Easter bunny. All of which have been dreamt up over time to create the fantasy that is religion and fairy tales.
Flame bait me if you wish, but the question was asked and I replied with mt views

An767


I must say there are many, many many things YOU cannot see, touch or hear that are quite real! Maybe you mean that you just don’t care.
 
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Mon May 21, 2018 11:47 pm

Electronpusher9 wrote:
Why believe anything that science tells you when you have been lied to about things since elementary school. Not a mistake but purposely lied to. Nothing that deals with God, creation but everyday celestial mechanics.
The moon is a satellite of earth when it isn't. You learn this in astrophysics or amateur astronomy . The Earth and moon are sister planets. They orbit around a common center of gravity about 500 miles above the earth's surface. This doesn't meet the definition of a satellite. Why not tell us this?
Go's to show that what we are taught isn't always the truth and isn't that what science is suppose to be about? The truth?

Have at it folks. I am eagerly waiting to hear.


You don’t need to parcipate in a forum, you need to go back to high school and repeat your science lessons and exams. And if they charged you for them in the past, ask for a refund.
 
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 22, 2018 12:41 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I don't buy into your errors, and there are so many Thomas !!!

But let's just take one, Evolution.... It is still a Theory, and until science "proves" it, it will remain a "theory", even if fellows like your self insist that is is "proven", when it hasn't been.

Nice Try T


Despite what you and Mike Pence might think evolution is not just a "theory". To prove it all you have to do is look at your friendly neighborhood pathogen. Why do you think so many doctors and scientists are concerned antibiotic resistant bacteria? Is it because they have adapted, i.e. evolved, to be resistant to antibiotics? If everything were stagnant like you seem to believe we wouldn't have to worry about things like this.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 22, 2018 2:39 am

LMP737 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

I don't buy into your errors, and there are so many Thomas !!!

But let's just take one, Evolution.... It is still a Theory, and until science "proves" it, it will remain a "theory", even if fellows like your self insist that is is "proven", when it hasn't been.

Nice Try T


Despite what you and Mike Pence might think evolution is not just a "theory". To prove it all you have to do is look at your friendly neighborhood pathogen. Why do you think so many doctors and scientists are concerned antibiotic resistant bacteria? Is it because they have adapted, i.e. evolved, to be resistant to antibiotics? If everything were stagnant like you seem to believe we wouldn't have to worry about things like this.


I haven't met Mike Pence, but I'm glad he's on the same team as I am.

Micro vs. Macro Evolution

Proponents of evolution often attempt to discredit creation by pointing to occurrences of microevolution, such as speciation, adaptation, etc. To the evolutionist, microevolution is vindication for their belief in the much larger macroevolution. Their belief is that if these microevolutionary changes have enough time to accumulate, then eventually this will lead to a macroevolutionary change. And therefore, in their way of thinking, if microevolution is a well established fact, macroevolution must logically be an established fact as well.

http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/micromacro.htm
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 22, 2018 3:28 am

Tugger wrote:
I guess I take issue with today and the people that weren't killed that are saying "God was watching out for me"... So what does that mean for all the ones that were shot or killed? God single them out to be shot and killed? That is what that is saying in my ears/mind.

I have had that moment where I am holding my child and looking to the sky, to "god", and saying: "don't you dare... don't you fucking dare take this child from this world. Don't." Because if there is a creature out there that will kill those on Earth or dictate who will get killed.., I'm sorry that is not a creature I respect.

I don't need to have proof of how the world and universe came into existence to know that proof like "god was looking out for me and wanted those others to be killed..." tells me this being is not what I value. But this is me, I am not speaking for you and your experiences.

Tugg



You have obviously endured my greatest fear. I would not think of offering any advice to you or anyone else who have had such in their life.
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 22, 2018 5:41 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I haven't met Mike Pence, but I'm glad he's on the same team as I am.


Team "I was never tought the language of science, and if i am told now i refuse to learn"?

The biggest mistake several sciences have ever made was using what seems to be normal every day language, instead of going medical and use fancy dead language words, so everybody understands they use a different language.
"Theory", when a scientists uses that word, means pretty much fact, in the sense that a) the theory explains all available data best and b) hasn´t been falsified in any single point.

Micro vs. Macro Evolution


OMG, that one never dies out, does it?

There is no "Micro vs. Macro Evolution", those are just convenient handles for the very same thing, just on different time scales.

Proponents of evolution often attempt to discredit creation by pointing to occurrences of microevolution, such as speciation, adaptation, etc. To the evolutionist, microevolution is vindication for their belief in the much larger macroevolution. Their belief is that if these microevolutionary changes have enough time to accumulate, then eventually this will lead to a macroevolutionary change. And therefore, in their way of thinking, if microevolution is a well established fact, macroevolution must logically be an established fact as well.

http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/micromacro.htm


Hey, they are almost right at least about something: "And therefore, in their way of thinking, if microevolution is a well established fact, macroevolution must logically be an established fact as well."

Macroevolution is an established fact, which is not that surprising, since Evolution on the whole is.

And before you bring up the Cambrian Explosion, another favorite of creationists, that explosion took 50 Million years and is also just a convenient handle, evolution proceeded with its normal pace at that time.

A delusion is a mistaken belief that is held with strong conviction even when presented with superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or some other misleading effects of perception.


So, are you delusional or just badly informed?

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 22, 2018 3:53 pm

If there is no God, why do so many people cry out his name during sex?
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Re: Is "god" a myth?

Tue May 22, 2018 8:52 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I haven't met Mike Pence, but I'm glad he's on the same team as I am.

Micro vs. Macro Evolution

Proponents of evolution often attempt to discredit creation by pointing to occurrences of microevolution, such as speciation, adaptation, etc. To the evolutionist, microevolution is vindication for their belief in the much larger macroevolution. Their belief is that if these microevolutionary changes have enough time to accumulate, then eventually this will lead to a macroevolutionary change. And therefore, in their way of thinking, if microevolution is a well established fact, macroevolution must logically be an established fact as well.

http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/micromacro.htm


You post a link to a creationist website? Creationism whose only supporting "document" is a story written thousands of years ago by people who were scientifically ignorant about the world and universe around them.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.

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