tommy1808 wrote:

and the EU is collapsing in front of your very eyes.

I guess that is a wet dream of many on the other side of the pond...... support for closer EU integration is growing, not going away....

best regards
Thomas

Oh Tommy, it must be nice living in whatever bubble you're in. It's clearly a waste of time debating with you since your head is shoved so firmly up your you know where.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Macron just stated that France would have done the same as the U.K. if it was actually put to a vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... te-mistake

Yes, everything is going swimmingly with the EU tommy. No problems whatsoever!

And notice I haven't even said a word about Poland, Hungary, Greece or numerous other secession movements within the continent.

Nothing to see here Tommy. It's just the right wing fever swamps.

The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself.

RetroRoo wrote:

Lecturing Americans about guns doesn't work. As an Australian, every time there is an American mass-shooting we see finger-wagging and references to our own gun reforms in the 1990's which stopped mass shootings completely. But facts, emotive language, even the slaughter of children won't convince the United States to properly legislate for the "well regulated" component of the second amendment.

Nothing will change in this field, American mass shootings will continue. It's the price you pay for a culture informed by a mis-reading of the second-amendment. A price Americans are willing to pay.

American politicians put money ahead of everything else. Money for their campaigns and their own lives. That is why the terrorist organization NRA gets it's way and not We The People. They give millions of dollars to politicians to keep as many guns out there as possible.

Until we get all money out of politics, this will continue to happen.

FreequentFlier wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

and the EU is collapsing in front of your very eyes.

I guess that is a wet dream of many on the other side of the pond...... support for closer EU integration is growing, not going away....

best regards
Thomas

Oh Tommy, it must be nice living in whatever bubble you're in. It's clearly a waste of time debating with you since your head is shoved so firmly up your you know where.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Macron just stated that France would have done the same as the U.K. if it was actually put to a vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... te-mistake

Yes, everything is going swimmingly with the EU tommy. No problems whatsoever!

And notice I haven't even said a word about Poland, Hungary, Greece or numerous other secession movements within the continent.

Nothing to see here Tommy. It's just the right wing fever swamps.

The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself.

Kinda like one politician one time talked about voting on an assault weapons ban and you righties twisted it to "all 'liberals' want to ban all guns!!" One president of one country says one thing and that means everyone agrees with him? wow... just wow....

I find it embarrassing when Americans try pushing a us-style conservative narrative to anyone outside of the country and try telling them they live in a bubble. Yeah, your perception of the world is shared by no one. It was manufactured by political donors. Also Muslims generally have more in common with your conservatism than anyone else. The irony is killing me.

bennett123 wrote:

A lot of people on here oppose gun control.

Do you conclude that the cost is worth paying.

How would you reduce the number of fatalities.

I reject the entire premise of your question as it suggests gun owners are responsible for the actions of killers. I have this crazy notion of blaming the parties who committed the murder and holding them responsible.

I also believe in having perspective. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates there are about 102 motor vehicle fatalities a day in the US. That doesn't mean we should ban motor vehicles. It means we should identify the causes of those particular fatalities (like drunk driving), focus on the, and work on reducing them.

Similarly we keep hearing "assault weapons" need to be banned. Yet 97% of homicides in the US are committed by handguns.

Now with that said, I think we should identify the causes of this phenomenon and profile the typical perpetrators. A common element is that they are almost always bullied students. We need to make sure we have guidance counselors that are reaching out to them and making sure they are ok. It isn't Johnny Star Quarterback that is shooting up high schools. It is Johnny Social Outcast that is.

Then we need a culture of not just "if you see something, say something." It then needs to be followed up by "do something". Authorities had been notified of the potential for this student to commit an act like this, and yet...not much was done.

It's the 21st century. Mental health records and criminal health records need to be combined with firearm registries to determine if certain citizens should be denied access to guns or subject to greater regulatory scrutiny.

If you want to just emote and not solve anything, accuse 2nd Amendment supporters of being terrorists or wanting kids to die.

If you want to start preventing incidents like this, stop going on defense and go on offense instead. I've suggested some measures to that effect above.

Jouhou wrote:

I find it embarrassing when Americans try pushing a us-style conservative narrative to anyone outside of the country and try telling them they live in a bubble. Yeah, your perception of the world is shared by no one. It was manufactured by political donors. Also Muslims generally have more in common with your conservatism than anyone else. The irony is killing me.

Those weren't my words cupcake. They were Emmanuel Macron's words.

FreequentFlier wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

A lot of people on here oppose gun control.

Do you conclude that the cost is worth paying.

How would you reduce the number of fatalities.

I reject the entire premise of your question as it suggests gun owners are responsible for the actions of killers. I have this crazy notion of blaming the parties who committed the murder and holding them responsible.

I also believe in having perspective. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates there are about 102 motor vehicle fatalities a day in the US. That doesn't mean we should ban motor vehicles. It means we should identify the causes of those particular fatalities (like drunk driving), focus on the, and work on reducing them.

Similarly we keep hearing "assault weapons" need to be banned. Yet 97% of homicides in the US are committed by handguns.

Now with that said, I think we should identify the causes of this phenomenon and profile the typical perpetrators. A common element is that they are almost always bullied students. We need to make sure we have guidance counselors that are reaching out to them and making sure they are ok. It isn't Johnny Star Quarterback that is shooting up high schools. It is Johnny Social Outcast that is.

Then we need a culture of not just "if you see something, say something." It then needs to be followed up by "do something". Authorities had been notified of the potential for this student to commit an act like this, and yet...not much was done.

It's the 21st century. Mental health records and criminal health records need to be combined with firearm registries to determine if certain citizens should be denied access to guns or subject to greater regulatory scrutiny.

If you want to just emote and not solve anything, accuse 2nd Amendment supporters of being terrorists or wanting kids to die.

If you want to start preventing incidents like this, stop going on defense and go on offense instead. I've suggested some measures to that effect above.

And your entire premise is to be rejected. You think that, because there are safety standards in place on cars, as well as laws and regulations, that just automatically translates to guns. That is where you are wrong. There are states where anyone can buy a gun, no questions asked. No gun owner carries insurance for guns, in over half the states, firearms training is optional

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/02/live-f ... y-permits/

Compare that with cars. Your premise falls flat.

Mental health requirements mean nothing if a person can take all of their firepower into a school and take down as many kids as they want.

Learn and understand the first four words of the Second Amendment before you only follow the last four.

EDIT:

"See something, say something" IS "DO SOMETHING" or are you suggesting everyone arm themselves and do unto others before they do it to you? So many people are afraid. Afraid of the other person taking them out, afraid of the terrorist organization NRA, afraid of being bullied by ammosexuals, afraid of being sued. Could it be that law enforcement does get tips all the time but they do nothing because you ammosexuals and righties demand we all follow only the last four words of the Second Amendment and law enforcement does not want to be branded as law hating like you ammosexuals and righties love to do to anyone who dare oppose you all?

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

I find it embarrassing when Americans try pushing a us-style conservative narrative to anyone outside of the country and try telling them they live in a bubble. Yeah, your perception of the world is shared by no one. It was manufactured by political donors. Also Muslims generally have more in common with your conservatism than anyone else. The irony is killing me.

Those weren't my words cupcake. They were Emmanuel Macron's words.

I wasn't responding to macrons words. I was expanding on something different - American conservatism is different from European conservatism. Americans tend to at least be influenced by religious zealots. You know how the Charlottesville Nazis were chanting "Christian sharia"? It's becoming quite apt of a description. There's a lot of irony when these people play up rejecting conservative Islam when it's the same thing they embrace except for the use of the Arabic word for god.

Not to mention, how many of these incidents recently involved the American far right? This recent shooter was a magamutt. The slashed throats in Portland Oregon were by an immigrant hating nutter. Charlottesville. White dudes trying to bomb Somali immigrants. It seems the left needs to start arming itself to the teeth. We have Christian jihadis on our hands.

seb146 wrote:

are you suggesting

I am suggesting you actually read my posts before commenting on them.

Jouhou wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

I find it embarrassing when Americans try pushing a us-style conservative narrative to anyone outside of the country and try telling them they live in a bubble. Yeah, your perception of the world is shared by no one. It was manufactured by political donors. Also Muslims generally have more in common with your conservatism than anyone else. The irony is killing me.

Those weren't my words cupcake. They were Emmanuel Macron's words.

I wasn't responding to macrons words. I was expanding on something different - American conservatism is different from European conservatism. Americans tend to at least be influenced by religious zealots. You know how the Charlottesville Nazis were chanting "Christian sharia"? It's becoming quite apt of a description. There's a lot of irony when these people play up rejecting conservative Islam when it's the same thing they embrace except for the use of the Arabic word for god.

Not to mention, how many of these incidents recently involved the American far right? This recent shooter was a magamutt. The slashed throats in Portland Oregon were by an immigrant hating nutter. Charlottesville. White dudes trying to bomb Somali immigrants. It seems the left needs to start arming itself to the teeth. We have Christian jihadis on our hands.

And a Bernie Sanders supporter actually managed to shoot a Republican Congressman and assassinate over a dozen others last year. Your point is what exactly? Are you advocating collective punishment? Probably not a wise idea.

bagoldex wrote:

CCGPV wrote:

bhill wrote:

No it is not...read up on your Civics as to how the Constitution is amended....they did it for booze they can do it for firearms...like this:

"“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed.”

We can't even pass a bill to keep the government in operation half the time and you think we can organize a nation wide campaign to change one of the amendments of the bill of rights? Not to mention getting it ratified by most states. Its about as far fetched as it gets at this point.

We need stricter gun control but changing the 2nd amendment isn't going to happen short of the total collapse of government and society that requires a new government being created.

Sounds like a plan. Can we auction off the shithole/red/pay-less-in-taxes than-they-receive states to the highest bidder?

MALA ... Make America Lean Again!

Well yes, that's how an upheaval would work. That and there would be hundreds of thousands dead and our economy and everyone's lives would be ruined for generations.

A pretty terrible thing.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Those weren't my words cupcake. They were Emmanuel Macron's words.

I wasn't responding to macrons words. I was expanding on something different - American conservatism is different from European conservatism. Americans tend to at least be influenced by religious zealots. You know how the Charlottesville Nazis were chanting "Christian sharia"? It's becoming quite apt of a description. There's a lot of irony when these people play up rejecting conservative Islam when it's the same thing they embrace except for the use of the Arabic word for god.

Not to mention, how many of these incidents recently involved the American far right? This recent shooter was a magamutt. The slashed throats in Portland Oregon were by an immigrant hating nutter. Charlottesville. White dudes trying to bomb Somali immigrants. It seems the left needs to start arming itself to the teeth. We have Christian jihadis on our hands.

And a Bernie Sanders supporter actually managed to shoot a Republican Congressman and assassinate over a dozen others last year. Your point is what exactly? Are you advocating collective punishment? Probably not a wise idea.

One example. Literally one single example.

I'm advocating instead of railing on non existent threats you tell your own people to stop slaughtering innocents. You are the threat. The Europeans had valid concerns over refugees pouring over their borders uncontrolled because they are geographically next door to these war zones. It's like American conservatives wanted in on this victimhood even though it was never their problem. You are the biggest threat to our country.

FreequentFlier wrote:

And a Bernie Sanders supporter actually managed to shoot a Republican Congressman and assassinate over a dozen others last year. Your point is what exactly? Are you advocating collective punishment? Probably not a wise idea.

A mentally ill nut with a domestic battery history shot a Republican Congressman who railed against limiting the mentally ill from buying guns, which was rolled back only a few months prior. Of course he was/is too dumb to realize how quickly karma ran him over.

Also I didn't catch this before- but no that Bernie supporter did not assassinate over a dozen others as you say. I'm pretty sure the shooter was the only person to die in that incident.

Jouhou wrote:

Also I didn't catch this before- but no that Bernie supporter did not assassinate over a dozen others as you say. I'm pretty sure the shooter was the only person to die in that incident.

No one died - it was a mistype in my original post which should have said attempted assasination.

Anyways, there have been numerous left wing related shooters, but this isn't a contest, and the blame lies solely with them. I don't believe in collective punishment, and neither should you.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Also I didn't catch this before- but no that Bernie supporter did not assassinate over a dozen others as you say. I'm pretty sure the shooter was the only person to die in that incident.

No one died - it was a mistype in my original post which should have said attempted assasination.

Anyways, there have been numerous left wing related shooters, but this isn't a contest, and the blame lies solely with them. I don't believe in collective punishment, and neither should you.

I'm making it clear that the rest of the country is starting to view the right wing as a clear threat. If the right doesn't want to end up on the wrong side of history they need to start being more sane about their rhetoric before they inspire anymore nutjobs.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Anyways, there have been numerous left wing related shooters, but this isn't a contest, and the blame lies solely with them. you.

this isn´t a contest based on principle or because you know you lose that contest at a 1:10 margin.

I don't believe in collective punishment, and neither should you

17 kids just died of a misinterpreted 2nd Amendment .... because people up and including the supreme court don´t know englisch. How is that for collective punishment. .....

best regards
Thomas

FreequentFlier wrote:

seb146 wrote:

are you suggesting

I am suggesting you actually read my posts before commenting on them.

All you want is background checks. That did not work in the last Florida shooting nor in the Sandy Hook shooting. Background checks, while a good step, should not be the only thing. There must be more done.

Continuing with the analogy of cars:

Experts saw there needed to be better headlights to reduce night time accidents. Experts saw there was a need for seat belts. Experts saw there was a need for air bags. Environmental scientists saw the need for better and smarter fuel consumption. Experts saw there was a need for lowered blood alcohol levels. We The People petitioned our government to make our lives better and safer. If we did things your/NRA way, treating cars like guns, we would still be driving Model Ts because all that other stuff is merely a suggestion and how dare anyone infringe on my right to die or kill others or what ever the excuse of the day is.

Besides, there are people who choose not to own or drive a car. Why burden them with licensing fees, gas taxes, insurance, etc? Why should I have to pay for you playing weekend warrior?

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Also I didn't catch this before- but no that Bernie supporter did not assassinate over a dozen others as you say. I'm pretty sure the shooter was the only person to die in that incident.

No one died - it was a mistype in my original post which should have said attempted assasination.

Anyways, there have been numerous left wing related shooters, but this isn't a contest, and the blame lies solely with them. I don't believe in collective punishment, and neither should you.

So, because one guy attempted an assassination, that negates all mass shootings? That negates what just happened in Florida? Or Las Vegas? Or Roseburg? Or Virginia Tech? Or Sandy Hook? Or Columbine? You are actually apologizing for mass shootings? That is how I read it.

It is also worth noting that ammosexuals and righties IMMEDIATELY scream at people to not politicize mass shootings only seconds after they are reported. Why not? Why not politicize children being murdered in cold blood for no damn reason? Why can we not get mad at that? Because one Bernie supporter attempted to shoot someone? Sorry, princess, but that will never be a good reason. Try again.

FreequentFlier wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

and the EU is collapsing in front of your very eyes.

I guess that is a wet dream of many on the other side of the pond...... support for closer EU integration is growing, not going away....

best regards
Thomas

Oh Tommy, it must be nice living in whatever bubble you're in. It's clearly a waste of time debating with you since your head is shoved so firmly up your you know where.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Macron just stated that France would have done the same as the U.K. if it was actually put to a vote.

"Probably in a similar context, but our context was very different"

Which amounts to "no way". But such the sad state of journalism nowadays.

I know this issue goes deeper than one President, but still the difference between the two presidents is striking:

Both these pictures were taken after national tragedies. Guess which president is a sociopath just posing and which one is capable of genuine empathy. pic.twitter.com/F7Qm7Y0l5H

— Tuxedo Mask (@TheLoveBel0w) February 17, 2018

How can this president leads in this issue, if it doesn't seem to hurt him?

FreequentFlier wrote:

I reject the entire premise of your question as it suggests gun owners are responsible for the actions of killers. I have this crazy notion of blaming the parties who committed the murder and holding them responsible.

The same cultural environment demands all female nipples be hidden just because a very small minority of males would instantly whip their d*k into freedom to implant it somewhere else ( questionable assertion imho ).
Bigotry? or what was that disparity called?
Under the same auspices I can very well collect all guns.

Jouhou wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Also I didn't catch this before- but no that Bernie supporter did not assassinate over a dozen others as you say. I'm pretty sure the shooter was the only person to die in that incident.

No one died - it was a mistype in my original post which should have said attempted assasination.

Anyways, there have been numerous left wing related shooters, but this isn't a contest, and the blame lies solely with them. I don't believe in collective punishment, and neither should you.

I'm making it clear that the rest of the country is starting to view the right wing as a clear threat. If the right doesn't want to end up on the wrong side of history they need to start being more sane about their rhetoric before they inspire anymore nutjobs.

Are they? Because they have a strange way of showing it given that Democrats have less political power today than any time since the 1920s.

And it sounds like it's actually you who is making the threats. Your comments amount to "we will have to be violent towards you because we fear you might be violent".

Irony died.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Are they? Because they have a strange way of showing it given that Democrats have less political power today than any time since the 1920s.

The 1920´s "democrats" currently occupy the White House and the majority in both champers of the house.

best regards
Thomas

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

I'm making it clear that the rest of the country is starting to view the right wing as a clear threat. If the right doesn't want to end up on the wrong side of history they need to start being more sane about their rhetoric before they inspire anymore nutjobs.

And it sounds like it's actually you who is making the threats. Your comments amount to "we will have to be violent towards you because we fear you might be violent".

Please how explain how you read that from anyone's comments. I am singularly failing to see it in the words above, or elsewhere.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Please how explain how you read that from anyone's comments. I am singularly failing to see it in the words above, or elsewhere.

Well, if you haven´t noticed that conservatism has been on the losing side of history since history began, and have sufficient paranoia, a given for the "they want to take my guns" crowd, then it is easy to assume that being on the losing side of history means being put in camps and killed of.

Of course, unless spending some effort into deciphering such statements, you only assume of other people what you yourself would do. Just like jealous people constantly accusing their partner of cheating w/o evidence are often the ones cheating....

best regards
Thomas

Looking at the current Olympic Games results and checking the last summer Olympics.....

Considering 300 Million guns and rifles in the Nation, and almost every shooter supposedly taking shooting serious.......

Why does the US not win almost everything when it comes to shooting, but performs pretty terrible?

Best regards
Thomas

I'd much rather be sending "thoughts and prayers" to the ammosexuals who had their guns taken away from them, than to the victims of these frequent mass shootings.

bgm wrote:

I'd much rather be sending "thoughts and prayers" to the ammosexuals who had their guns taken away from them, than to the victims of these frequent mass shootings.

.. and why doesn't their logic not apply to other countries having nukes? Nukes don't kill people, people do.....

Best regards
Thomas

FreequentFlier wrote:

Oh Tommy, it must be nice living in whatever bubble you're in. It's clearly a waste of time debating with you since your head is shoved so firmly up your you know where.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Macron just stated that France would have done the same as the U.K. if it was actually put to a vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... te-mistake

Yes, everything is going swimmingly with the EU tommy. No problems whatsoever!

And notice I haven't even said a word about Poland, Hungary, Greece or numerous other secession movements within the continent.

Nothing to see here Tommy. It's just the right wing fever swamps.

The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself.

Oh I missed that gem
You totally misunderstood what Macron meant. He was explaining that the referendum question was stupid (politely). Because you can't have just a yes or no on such a complex situation...

FreequentFlier wrote:

I also believe in having perspective. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates there are about 102 motor vehicle fatalities a day in the US. That doesn't mean we should ban motor vehicles. It means we should identify the causes of those particular fatalities (like drunk driving), focus on the, and work on reducing them.

With these numbers I guess you could also learn from Europe on that front !

These incidences below prove that the US govt can act in the public good when they are required to, it’s a pity too many people simply don’t care about the 1.5 million people killed by fellow citizens with guns.

1967 - Jayne Mansfield is killed when her car runs under the rear end of a tractor trailer. Since then, all trailers have a DOT bar at the rear to keep cars from going under them.

1982 - Seven people die when Tylenol packaging was tampered with. Since then, it takes a PhD, channel locks, and a sharp object to get into a bottle of pills.

2001 - One person attempts to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb. Since then, all air travelers have to take off their shoes for scanning before being allowed to board.

Since 1968 - 1,516, 863 people die from guns on American soil. Since then, the problem apparently can't be solved except with thoughts and prayers.

AND JU$T WHY DO YOU THINK THI$ I$???

tommy1808 wrote:

Looking at the current Olympic Games results and checking the last summer Olympics.....

Considering 300 Million guns and rifles in the Nation, and almost every shooter supposedly taking shooting serious.......

Why does the US not win almost everything when it comes to shooting, but performs pretty terrible?

Best regards
Thomas

I thought about responding rathe harshly to this, but at the end of the day, you're just a troll seeking attention. While you obsess over Americans, I can assure you that we are not doing the same over you.

Your comments are all the more reason to not take you seriously and just ignore you.

Have a nice day Tommy.

Olddog wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Oh Tommy, it must be nice living in whatever bubble you're in. It's clearly a waste of time debating with you since your head is shoved so firmly up your you know where.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Macron just stated that France would have done the same as the U.K. if it was actually put to a vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... te-mistake

Yes, everything is going swimmingly with the EU tommy. No problems whatsoever!

And notice I haven't even said a word about Poland, Hungary, Greece or numerous other secession movements within the continent.

Nothing to see here Tommy. It's just the right wing fever swamps.

The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself.

Oh I missed that gem
You totally misunderstood what Macron meant. He was explaining that the referendum question was stupid (politely). Because you can't have just a yes or no on such a complex situation...

And yet, at the end of the day, he said his fellow countrymen would vote to leave the EU. Which would have made that the U.K. and France leaving the EU, with Poland, Greece, Italy and Hungary not far behind. And don't even get me started on the internal secession movements in Spain and Belgium.

The reason guys like Tommy are so obsessed with the US is because if they looked inwardly they might not like what they see. Much easier to blame all the world's problems on the US.

That's ok, we're used to it, and in all honesty, we increasingly don't mind or care.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Olddog wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Oh Tommy, it must be nice living in whatever bubble you're in. It's clearly a waste of time debating with you since your head is shoved so firmly up your you know where.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Macron just stated that France would have done the same as the U.K. if it was actually put to a vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... te-mistake

Yes, everything is going swimmingly with the EU tommy. No problems whatsoever!

And notice I haven't even said a word about Poland, Hungary, Greece or numerous other secession movements within the continent.

Nothing to see here Tommy. It's just the right wing fever swamps.

The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself.

Oh I missed that gem
You totally misunderstood what Macron meant. He was explaining that the referendum question was stupid (politely). Because you can't have just a yes or no on such a complex situation...

And yet, at the end of the day, he said his fellow countrymen would vote to leave the EU. Which would have made that the U.K. and France leaving the EU, with Poland, Greece, Italy and Hungary not far behind. And don't even get me started on the internal secession movements in Spain and Belgium.

The reason guys like Tommy are so obsessed with the US is because if they looked inwardly they might not like what they see. Much easier to blame all the world's problems on the US.

That's ok, we're used to it, and in all honesty, we increasingly don't mind or care.

Because it is so much better here with random, mass shootings, veterans living and dying on America's streets, our citizens die anyway because it is cheaper than going to the doctor, we can not get good paying jobs because education is too expensive, but, yeah, EU is so much worse....

seb146 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Olddog wrote:

Oh I missed that gem
You totally misunderstood what Macron meant. He was explaining that the referendum question was stupid (politely). Because you can't have just a yes or no on such a complex situation...

And yet, at the end of the day, he said his fellow countrymen would vote to leave the EU. Which would have made that the U.K. and France leaving the EU, with Poland, Greece, Italy and Hungary not far behind. And don't even get me started on the internal secession movements in Spain and Belgium.

The reason guys like Tommy are so obsessed with the US is because if they looked inwardly they might not like what they see. Much easier to blame all the world's problems on the US.

That's ok, we're used to it, and in all honesty, we increasingly don't mind or care.

Because it is so much better here with random, mass shootings, veterans living and dying on America's streets, our citizens die anyway because it is cheaper than going to the doctor, we can not get good paying jobs because education is too expensive, but, yeah, EU is so much worse....

Wait a minute - I thought Obama solved all these issues. Are you telling me he did not?

And let me pre-empt you (since you're very predictable) - he had a filibuster proof majority during his initial Presidency and could do whatever he wanted. He passed a failed health care bill, literally did nothing on immigration or gun control, and ran a stimulus package that resulted in him being the first US president in American history to never achieve a single year of 3% annual growth (despite exiting a recession when recovery periods typically result in faster growth)

If you want to know how you got Trump - Obama and his cadre of idiotic 20-something advisors like Jon Favreau, Ben Rhodes and Samantha Power are how you got Trump.

Which is why it's amusing that so many of our European friends - including the ones in this very thread - were so enamored by Obama. It's almost as if policy is irrelevant and mindless tribalism even transcends borders!

Be honest with yourself seb- does a successful Presidency typically get followed by a man like Donald Trump?

FreequentFlier wrote:

seb146 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

And yet, at the end of the day, he said his fellow countrymen would vote to leave the EU. Which would have made that the U.K. and France leaving the EU, with Poland, Greece, Italy and Hungary not far behind. And don't even get me started on the internal secession movements in Spain and Belgium.

The reason guys like Tommy are so obsessed with the US is because if they looked inwardly they might not like what they see. Much easier to blame all the world's problems on the US.

That's ok, we're used to it, and in all honesty, we increasingly don't mind or care.

Because it is so much better here with random, mass shootings, veterans living and dying on America's streets, our citizens die anyway because it is cheaper than going to the doctor, we can not get good paying jobs because education is too expensive, but, yeah, EU is so much worse....

Wait a minute - I thought Obama solved all these issues. Are you telling me he did not?

And let me pre-empt you (since you're very predictable) - he had a filibuster proof majority during his initial Presidency and could do whatever he wanted. He passed a failed health care bill, literally did nothing on immigration or gun control, and ran a stimulus package that resulted in him being the first US president in American history to never achieve a single year of 3% annual growth (despite exiting a recession when recovery periods typically result in faster growth)

If you want to know how you got Trump - Obama and his cadre of idiotic 20-something advisors like Jon Favreau, Ben Rhodes and Samantha Power are how you got Trump.

Which is why it's amusing that so many of our European friends - including the ones in this very thread - were so enamored by Obama. It's almost as if policy is irrelevant and mindless tribalism even transcends borders!

Be honest with yourself seb- does a successful Presidency typically get followed by a man like Donald Trump?

Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.

http://www.providencejournal.com/news/2 ... les-hearts

Look at this cartoon, it says it all about the dead children and teachers welcoming the newest group of murdered children and teachers joining them as the carnage continues. Of course we know that guns don't kill, people do. I sure hope the rising outrage continues against the rednecks who must have weapons of war. We now have a war against children and teachers it seems. Rednecks were once from a certain region of this country, now not so much.

seb146 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Because it is so much better here with random, mass shootings, veterans living and dying on America's streets, our citizens die anyway because it is cheaper than going to the doctor, we can not get good paying jobs because education is too expensive, but, yeah, EU is so much worse....

Wait a minute - I thought Obama solved all these issues. Are you telling me he did not?

And let me pre-empt you (since you're very predictable) - he had a filibuster proof majority during his initial Presidency and could do whatever he wanted. He passed a failed health care bill, literally did nothing on immigration or gun control, and ran a stimulus package that resulted in him being the first US president in American history to never achieve a single year of 3% annual growth (despite exiting a recession when recovery periods typically result in faster growth)

If you want to know how you got Trump - Obama and his cadre of idiotic 20-something advisors like Jon Favreau, Ben Rhodes and Samantha Power are how you got Trump.

Which is why it's amusing that so many of our European friends - including the ones in this very thread - were so enamored by Obama. It's almost as if policy is irrelevant and mindless tribalism even transcends borders!

Be honest with yourself seb- does a successful Presidency typically get followed by a man like Donald Trump?

Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.

So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?

FreequentFlier wrote:

While you obsess over Americans,

Well, someone has to care about the USA, and it sure isn´t you. I have people living there i care about, you probably don´t. At least you obviously don´t care much about their kids being killed in their classroom, or the trauma of having to have active shooter drills in their schools.

best regards
Thomas

FreequentFlier wrote:

seb146 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Wait a minute - I thought Obama solved all these issues. Are you telling me he did not?

And let me pre-empt you (since you're very predictable) - he had a filibuster proof majority during his initial Presidency and could do whatever he wanted. He passed a failed health care bill, literally did nothing on immigration or gun control, and ran a stimulus package that resulted in him being the first US president in American history to never achieve a single year of 3% annual growth (despite exiting a recession when recovery periods typically result in faster growth)

If you want to know how you got Trump - Obama and his cadre of idiotic 20-something advisors like Jon Favreau, Ben Rhodes and Samantha Power are how you got Trump.

Which is why it's amusing that so many of our European friends - including the ones in this very thread - were so enamored by Obama. It's almost as if policy is irrelevant and mindless tribalism even transcends borders!

Be honest with yourself seb- does a successful Presidency typically get followed by a man like Donald Trump?

Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.

So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?

Are you trying to get someone to pull the race card? I think that's what you're doing. So that you can accuse them of "pulling the race card" because I've seen a lot of trumpsters do this recently. But aha! Jokes on you, Trumps a person of color too! Orange. What do us libtards have against cheetohs?!!!

Jouhou wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.

So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?

Are you trying to get someone to pull the race card? I think that's what you're doing. So that you can accuse them of "pulling the race card" because I've seen a lot of trumpsters do this recently. But aha! Jokes on you, Trumps a person of color too! Orange. What do us libtards have against cheetohs?!!!

Not sure what race has to do with the points I brought up - perhaps you can elaborate. You're welcome to answer my question posed to seb though: do people like Donald Trump typically follow successful leaders who preceded them?

FreequentFlier wrote:

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?

because it is one of the most religiously fundamentalist countries on this planet and wouldn´t elect a woman to be president. You know, with a less progressive society than Pakistan, or Mali, or Indonesia, or Turkey or the Republic of Central Africa. Lets face it, without the constitution in the way, the US would be the Christian version of Iran. Sharia law included, well, you already have pretty shariaesk laws.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

While you obsess over Americans,

Well, someone has to care about the USA, and it sure isn´t you. I have people living there i care about, you probably don´t. At least you obviously don´t care much about their kids being killed in their classroom, or the trauma of having to have active shooter drills in their schools.

best regards
Thomas

I gather you're in favor of banning late term abortions? The medical profession has established pretty clearly that third term fetuses are viable outside the womb and you keep touting your defense of children.

I'd hate to think it's just selective virtue signaling.

tommy1808 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?

because it is one of the most religiously fundamentalist countries on this planet and wouldn´t elect a woman to be president. You know, with a less progressive society than Pakistan, or Mali, or Indonesia, or Turkey or the Republic of Central Africa. Lets face it, without the constitution in the way, the US would be the Christian version of Iran. Sharia law included, well, you already have pretty shariaesk laws.

best regards
Thomas

The more you post, the dumber you sound.

Let us know when gay people are getting married in Turkey or Pakistan Tommy.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Let us know when gay people are getting married in Turkey or Pakistan Tommy.

...because that would happen in the USA if it wasn´t for the supreme court and the constitution, right. You are quite the joker........

best regards
Thomas

FreequentFlier wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

While you obsess over Americans,

Well, someone has to care about the USA, and it sure isn´t you. I have people living there i care about, you probably don´t. At least you obviously don´t care much about their kids being killed in their classroom, or the trauma of having to have active shooter drills in their schools.

best regards
Thomas

I gather you're in favor of banning late term abortions?

Yup, i am. I think the first trimester limit we have is about right. The woman has the right to chose, but it also has to chose and not drag the decision out forever, until the featus has a fully developed central nerve system. I also agree there should be a little waiting period, one night to sleep over the decision shall suffice, and the requirement to get counselling about alternatives, like carrying to term and give up the baby for abortion, but not in the sense of having to pass a test, just to get the information.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Let us know when gay people are getting married in Turkey or Pakistan Tommy.

...because that would happen in the USA if it wasn´t for the supreme court and the constitution, right. You are quite the joker........

best regards
Thomas

So you acknowledge it is happening in the US and not in the countries you mentioned?

Got it, your analogy was flawed and stupid. Point taken.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?

Are you trying to get someone to pull the race card? I think that's what you're doing. So that you can accuse them of "pulling the race card" because I've seen a lot of trumpsters do this recently. But aha! Jokes on you, Trumps a person of color too! Orange. What do us libtards have against cheetohs?!!!

Not sure what race has to do with the points I brought up - perhaps you can elaborate. You're welcome to answer my question posed to seb though: do people like Donald Trump typically follow successful leaders who preceded them?

Actually it's usually simply a swing to the "opposite" to tell you the truth. The minority party gets fired up and roots for a 180 degree change in American politics. Whether that's the rational way to do things or not, it's a way of maintaining equilibrium. Unfortunately trump isn't even in the spectrum here. By the american definitions of liberalism and conservatism he is neither. He has no real political positions and where he does, the historic leaders he brings to mind are worrying at best. "Drain the Swamp" - Mussolini

tommy1808 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Well, someone has to care about the USA, and it sure isn´t you. I have people living there i care about, you probably don´t. At least you obviously don´t care much about their kids being killed in their classroom, or the trauma of having to have active shooter drills in their schools.

best regards
Thomas

I gather you're in favor of banning late term abortions?

Yup, i am. I think the first trimester limit we have is about right. The woman has the right to chose, but it also has to chose and not drag the decision out forever, until the featus has a fully developed central nerve system. I also agree there should be a little waiting period, one night to sleep over the decision shall suffice, and the requirement to get counselling about alternatives, like carrying to term and give up the baby for abortion, but not in the sense of having to pass a test, just to get the information.

best regards
Thomas

Interesting. And yet no constant harping about the evils of the US for having that policy.

I sort of get the mindless political party tribalism within one's country. It's petty and silly but at least there's some minimal logic to it.

I'll never understand the trans-oceanic political tribalism of some Europeans.

Just utterly bizarre.