jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:40 pm

What's it going to take for the light bulbs to go off in deniers' heads that something is absolutely rotten here?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1FI2V7
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 8388
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:28 pm

It is interesting to see how Putin is screwing with Trump.

By stating the list is a move by Trump foes he sets up Trump to either appear to be doing his bidding or locking him into something he doesn't want (worse relations with Russia).

As to the list, this is an interesting take on the list (basically pointing out it is not a good list):
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... a-disgrace

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:26 pm

Tugger wrote:
It is interesting to see how Putin is screwing with Trump.

By stating the list is a move by Trump foes he sets up Trump to either appear to be doing his bidding or locking him into something he doesn't want (worse relations with Russia).

As to the list, this is an interesting take on the list (basically pointing out it is not a good list):
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... a-disgrace

Tugg


It's amazing to me how this has not been at the forefront of news stories for the past 24 hours. I guess they're just banking on the SoTU to soak it up. And I'm sure plenty of Republicans, Paul Ryan included, are waiting in the wings to say that the President is in full compliance with the legislation.
 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 5623
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:02 am

jetero wrote:
What's it going to take for the light bulbs to go off in deniers' heads that something is absolutely rotten here?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1FI2V7


It's awesome how he is messing with the minds of the left! :D [/end right wing mode]
 
User avatar
EstherLouise
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:03 am

I still think that Trump is suffering from severe phimosis and it affects his thinking.
712 722 732 734 737 738 741 742 744 752 762 772 A310 DC91 DC93 DC94 DC1030 DC1040 F100 MD82 MD83
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:36 am

cpd wrote:
jetero wrote:
What's it going to take for the light bulbs to go off in deniers' heads that something is absolutely rotten here?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1FI2V7


It's awesome how he is messing with the minds of the left! :D [/end right wing mode]


Don't you sound like a smart one? Never left the playground?
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:58 am

jetero wrote:
What's it going to take for the light bulbs to go off in deniers' heads that something is absolutely rotten here?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1FI2V7


Trumps done something right for a change. When you read what these new sanctions are they don't effect a single company in the US but they will cause massive amounts of problems for some companies in Europe it's not funny, I mean what right does the US have to place sanctions on a Germany company maintaining a pipeline carrying Russian gas on Germany territory, these are mostly extra territorial sanctions, the EU was also super pissed at them and has threatened retaliation if they are enacted. This is the US really over stepping its bounds.
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:07 am

The background behind "the oligarchs list" which was released by Trump:

Last summer, Congress passed a law that required the Trump administration to compile an “oligarch list” — a list of names of people in Putin’s inner circle. Instead, the U.S. Treasury published a list not of Putin’s inner circle, but of people whose names appear on the Kremlin website and in Forbes’s 2017 list of the wealthiest Russians.

By Monday afternoon, no oligarch list had been made public. Then with minutes to the midnight deadline, the Treasury Department published the unclassified version of its list, which featured Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov, prime minister and former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev, Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu — and everyone else on the Kremlin website’s English-language list of major staff in the order they appear on the website.

Similarly, the list of 96 oligarchs, was taken from the Forbes 2017 list of richest Russians.


The Treasury Department confirmed its list was taken from Forbes.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/30/tru ... -treasury/
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6855
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:22 am

The background of the oligarchs list, is the sanctions imposed on Russia after that annexation of Crimea, mingling in eastern Ukraine and as a result the shooting down of MH317. Let's not forget that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:11 am

Dutchy wrote:
The background of the oligarchs list, is the sanctions imposed on Russia after that annexation of Crimea, mingling in eastern Ukraine and as a result the shooting down of MH317. Let's not forget that.


These sanctions aren't anything to do with those incidents, so we should forget about them in relation to this, this is just the US getting upset that someone might have influenced the US elections.
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:20 am

Dutchy wrote:
The background of the oligarchs list, is the sanctions imposed on Russia after that annexation of Crimea, mingling in eastern Ukraine and as a result the shooting down of MH317. Let's not forget that.


My point was that the Trumpsters dragged their heels in coming up with the list they were mandated to produce, and when they did come up with a list, it was thoughtlessly put together from the public domain.

Are you saying that the Forbes list was compiled as a result of MH-17 investigations? Did they copy it from someone else or did they compile it themselves?
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6690
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:05 pm

But the fact that Trump seems too cozy with Russia is preposterous, right? He's very tough which is why he doesn't want to enforce the sanctions.

GASP! Does it mean he can be sued for not enforcing a law (like the GOP did with Obama)?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
WIederling
Posts: 6866
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:32 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
This is the US really over stepping its bounds.


This is a gist of all US sanctions. Primary objective is commercial warfare targeting Europe.
Murphy is an optimist
 
wingman
Posts: 3495
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:57 pm

Weirdling is right, Russia doesnt mess with Europe, except for invasions, shooting down airliners and fake news during its own elections so they should follow Germanys lead and roll over like whimpering kitties. Thank Christ for France, the UK and NL. Someones got to have some sack. Between him and Rob theyd wave Putin into Germany and Scandinavia bent over double heads up their own backsides. Dont forget the snorkels lafs, id hate to see you suffocate up your own bums!
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:13 pm

wingman wrote:
Weirdling is right, Russia doesnt mess with Europe, except for invasions, shooting down airliners and fake news during its own elections so they should follow Germanys lead and roll over like whimpering kitties. Thank Christ for France, the UK and NL. Someones got to have some sack. Between him and Rob theyd wave Putin into Germany and Scandinavia bent over double heads up their own backsides. Dont forget the snorkels lafs, id hate to see you suffocate up your own bums!
You forgot assassinations and large scale banking fraud (then there's that grey cloud of paranoia that rolls in from the east.)
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:32 pm

wingman wrote:
Weirdling is right, Russia doesnt mess with Europe, except for invasions, shooting down airliners and fake news during its own elections so they should follow Germanys lead and roll over like whimpering kitties. Thank Christ for France, the UK and NL. Someones got to have some sack. Between him and Rob theyd wave Putin into Germany and Scandinavia bent over double heads up their own backsides. Dont forget the snorkels lafs, id hate to see you suffocate up your own bums!


Those issues don't econonically fuck over Europe, which is what these sacntions are going to do. I don't care if the US sanction Russian activities in the US or the Americas, but when the sanctions start to mess with Europe then Europe has a right to take it personally. Its also not like the US doesn't shoot down airliners and invade countries, apparently that's just the way it shit works, also I doubt anyone in Europe really cares about Crimea anymore, it's done and dusted, we don't hear about Ukraine on the news either, it's ancient history.
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:35 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
jetero wrote:
What's it going to take for the light bulbs to go off in deniers' heads that something is absolutely rotten here?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1FI2V7


Trumps done something right for a change. When you read what these new sanctions are they don't effect a single company in the US but they will cause massive amounts of problems for some companies in Europe it's not funny, I mean what right does the US have to place sanctions on a Germany company maintaining a pipeline carrying Russian gas on Germany territory, these are mostly extra territorial sanctions, the EU was also super pissed at them and has threatened retaliation if they are enacted. This is the US really over stepping its bounds.


#AmericaFirst, right? But nice to know Trump is such a diplomat with his eye out for Europe.

This is not a matter of a policy debate. It is a matter of the President electing which laws he wants to follow. And, here's the surprise, it's a law that has negative financial implications for Russia! Who would've guessed?!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:32 pm

It's also a law which has huge negative financial implications for Europe, a law the EU has said if it's enacted they would have to retaliate in kind to the US. It's a stupid pointless sanction.

Europe 'stands ready to act' if US sanctions on Russia affect its oil and gas supplies

The EU is concerned that US sanctions will hurt investments in an oil pipeline connecting Russia to Germany

Major international players are warning the United States against imposing further sanctions on Russia, saying that doing so could further isolate America from the world community.

Most recently, Germany and the European Union joined France and Russia in delivering a stern warning to the US. European Union President Jean-Claude Juncker said that the bloc would act “within days” if it doesn’t get assurances that new sanctions wouldn’t significantly impact European interests.

The US House of Representatives voted this week to impose further sanctions Russia, Iran, and North Korea, while limiting Donald Trump from weakening current sanctions that were imposed after it was determined that Russia had meddled in the 2016 US presidential election. The measure — a bipartisan effort that saw just three “no” votes — provoked Russia, which warned that the new sanctions risked worsening the already sour relations between the two world superpowers.

The United States has previously worked in tandem with the EU to develop sanctions responses to Russian aggression over the annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. The economic bloc worries that American sanctions developed without their input could jeopardise the continent’s energy security. That includes hurting companies financing a contentious new pipeline — the Nord Stream 2 — that would carry natural gas from Russia to Germany.

There are five western firms partnering with Russia’s Gazprom to build that pipeline, including Germany’s Wintershall and Uniper, the Anglo-Dutch company Royal Dutch Shell, Austria’s OMV, and France’s Engie.

“The U.S. bill could have unintended unilateral effects that impact the EU's energy security interests,” Mr Juncker said in a statement following a meeting with fellow European commissioners. “If our concerns are not taken into account sufficiently, we stand ready to act appropriately within a matter of days. 'America First' cannot mean that Europe's interests come last.”

The economic bloc reportedly plans on first attempting to find a diplomatic solution to concerns over the sanctions, but are prepared to file a complaint with the World Trade Organization if their concerns are not heard. The EU also plans on using an EU regulation that allows it to defend their companies against the extraterritorial measures from the US, Reuters reports.

Most measures that the EU might take would require approval from all of the member nations in the economic bloc.

In addition to hurting Nord Stream 2 efforts, EU regulators worry that the sanctions could impact upkeep of pipeline networks in Russia that feed into Ukraine and provide more than a quarter of the EU natural gas needs. It may also hurt diversification goals the EU has, like the Baltic Liquefied Natural Gas project.

It isn’t clear if the US Senate will even vote on the House sanctions bill, however. Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Bob Corker said this week that he may want to add some changes to the bill before allowing it to go forward. Still, an original version of the bill was negotiated between the the House and Senate and passed overwhelmingly in the Senate, receiving just two “no” votes. Should the Senate pas the legislation, it would still require approval from Donald Trump.
 
bhill
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:03 pm

Of course not...Col. Putin might stop co-signing all the Deutsche Bank loans Trump and Co. need....
Carpe Pices
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:04 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
It's also a law which has huge negative financial implications for Europe, a law the EU has said if it's enacted they would have to retaliate in kind to the US. It's a stupid pointless sanction.

Europe 'stands ready to act' if US sanctions on Russia affect its oil and gas supplies

The EU is concerned that US sanctions will hurt investments in an oil pipeline connecting Russia to Germany

Major international players are warning the United States against imposing further sanctions on Russia, saying that doing so could further isolate America from the world community.

Most recently, Germany and the European Union joined France and Russia in delivering a stern warning to the US. European Union President Jean-Claude Juncker said that the bloc would act “within days” if it doesn’t get assurances that new sanctions wouldn’t significantly impact European interests.

The US House of Representatives voted this week to impose further sanctions Russia, Iran, and North Korea, while limiting Donald Trump from weakening current sanctions that were imposed after it was determined that Russia had meddled in the 2016 US presidential election. The measure — a bipartisan effort that saw just three “no” votes — provoked Russia, which warned that the new sanctions risked worsening the already sour relations between the two world superpowers.

The United States has previously worked in tandem with the EU to develop sanctions responses to Russian aggression over the annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. The economic bloc worries that American sanctions developed without their input could jeopardise the continent’s energy security. That includes hurting companies financing a contentious new pipeline — the Nord Stream 2 — that would carry natural gas from Russia to Germany.

There are five western firms partnering with Russia’s Gazprom to build that pipeline, including Germany’s Wintershall and Uniper, the Anglo-Dutch company Royal Dutch Shell, Austria’s OMV, and France’s Engie.

“The U.S. bill could have unintended unilateral effects that impact the EU's energy security interests,” Mr Juncker said in a statement following a meeting with fellow European commissioners. “If our concerns are not taken into account sufficiently, we stand ready to act appropriately within a matter of days. 'America First' cannot mean that Europe's interests come last.”

The economic bloc reportedly plans on first attempting to find a diplomatic solution to concerns over the sanctions, but are prepared to file a complaint with the World Trade Organization if their concerns are not heard. The EU also plans on using an EU regulation that allows it to defend their companies against the extraterritorial measures from the US, Reuters reports.

Most measures that the EU might take would require approval from all of the member nations in the economic bloc.

In addition to hurting Nord Stream 2 efforts, EU regulators worry that the sanctions could impact upkeep of pipeline networks in Russia that feed into Ukraine and provide more than a quarter of the EU natural gas needs. It may also hurt diversification goals the EU has, like the Baltic Liquefied Natural Gas project.

It isn’t clear if the US Senate will even vote on the House sanctions bill, however. Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Bob Corker said this week that he may want to add some changes to the bill before allowing it to go forward. Still, an original version of the bill was negotiated between the the House and Senate and passed overwhelmingly in the Senate, receiving just two “no” votes. Should the Senate pas the legislation, it would still require approval from Donald Trump.


Kiwirob, you are endorsing the Executive branch of the U.S. government to act unilaterally in contravention of the Constitution based on (the convenient argument being used) that a foreign government (other than Russia) would retaliate. Do you understand that?
 
Ken777
Posts: 9705
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:20 pm

IMO Trump had no option but to do what Putin tells him to do. With Putin backing Trump's loans via German banks all it would take is a snap of his fingers to get the loans called and that puts Trump into multiple bankruptcies. Then there are the pee-pee videos that Putin can release at will.

Trump simply has to do what is is ordered.
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:45 pm

Ken777 wrote:
IMO Trump had no option but to do what Putin tells him to do. With Putin backing Trump's loans via German banks all it would take is a snap of his fingers to get the loans called and that puts Trump into multiple bankruptcies. Then there are the pee-pee videos that Putin can release at will.

Trump simply has to do what is is ordered.

I believe that you're on the right track with that.
No doubt there are things we have no way of knowing about lying on a shelf in the Kremlin.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:06 am

wingman wrote:
Weirdling is right, Russia doesnt mess with Europe, except for invasions, shooting down airliners and fake news during its own elections so they should follow Germanys lead and roll over like whimpering kitties. Thank Christ for France, the UK and NL. Someones got to have some sack. Between him and Rob theyd wave Putin into Germany and Scandinavia bent over double heads up their own backsides. Dont forget the snorkels lafs, id hate to see you suffocate up your own bums!


Poor poor West! For the past 4 years, they just can’t get themselves together and finally determine their fate, and take responsibility for it. Always someone from the East elects them Presidents, shoots down some airliner, pushes politicians from some wings into their parliaments. That’s to say the least.
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:16 am

Shooting down MH 17 was just a joke to you anrec?
 
anrec80
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:58 am

salttee wrote:
Shooting down MH 17 was just a joke to you anrec?


It's not, and I never said it is. Together with that, the investigation is far from over, and Russia's involvement you is yet to be proven. Together with that, the investigation is a profanation - one likely suspect is not only on the investigation team, but has the right of veto on pretty much anything. Of course all West has left to do is to blame someone from the East...
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 am

jetero wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It's also a law which has huge negative financial implications for Europe, a law the EU has said if it's enacted they would have to retaliate in kind to the US. It's a stupid pointless sanction.

Europe 'stands ready to act' if US sanctions on Russia affect its oil and gas supplies

The EU is concerned that US sanctions will hurt investments in an oil pipeline connecting Russia to Germany

Major international players are warning the United States against imposing further sanctions on Russia, saying that doing so could further isolate America from the world community.

Most recently, Germany and the European Union joined France and Russia in delivering a stern warning to the US. European Union President Jean-Claude Juncker said that the bloc would act “within days” if it doesn’t get assurances that new sanctions wouldn’t significantly impact European interests.

The US House of Representatives voted this week to impose further sanctions Russia, Iran, and North Korea, while limiting Donald Trump from weakening current sanctions that were imposed after it was determined that Russia had meddled in the 2016 US presidential election. The measure — a bipartisan effort that saw just three “no” votes — provoked Russia, which warned that the new sanctions risked worsening the already sour relations between the two world superpowers.

The United States has previously worked in tandem with the EU to develop sanctions responses to Russian aggression over the annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. The economic bloc worries that American sanctions developed without their input could jeopardise the continent’s energy security. That includes hurting companies financing a contentious new pipeline — the Nord Stream 2 — that would carry natural gas from Russia to Germany.

There are five western firms partnering with Russia’s Gazprom to build that pipeline, including Germany’s Wintershall and Uniper, the Anglo-Dutch company Royal Dutch Shell, Austria’s OMV, and France’s Engie.

“The U.S. bill could have unintended unilateral effects that impact the EU's energy security interests,” Mr Juncker said in a statement following a meeting with fellow European commissioners. “If our concerns are not taken into account sufficiently, we stand ready to act appropriately within a matter of days. 'America First' cannot mean that Europe's interests come last.”

The economic bloc reportedly plans on first attempting to find a diplomatic solution to concerns over the sanctions, but are prepared to file a complaint with the World Trade Organization if their concerns are not heard. The EU also plans on using an EU regulation that allows it to defend their companies against the extraterritorial measures from the US, Reuters reports.

Most measures that the EU might take would require approval from all of the member nations in the economic bloc.

In addition to hurting Nord Stream 2 efforts, EU regulators worry that the sanctions could impact upkeep of pipeline networks in Russia that feed into Ukraine and provide more than a quarter of the EU natural gas needs. It may also hurt diversification goals the EU has, like the Baltic Liquefied Natural Gas project.

It isn’t clear if the US Senate will even vote on the House sanctions bill, however. Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Bob Corker said this week that he may want to add some changes to the bill before allowing it to go forward. Still, an original version of the bill was negotiated between the the House and Senate and passed overwhelmingly in the Senate, receiving just two “no” votes. Should the Senate pas the legislation, it would still require approval from Donald Trump.


Kiwirob, you are endorsing the Executive branch of the U.S. government to act unilaterally in contravention of the Constitution based on (the convenient argument being used) that a foreign government (other than Russia) would retaliate. Do you understand that?


Do I care no, it’s not my govt, but I do think for once Trump has it correct, if he does sign it there will be bad blood between the US and EU and possibly some kind of barriers against US trade in the EU will be placed. It’s a pointless sanction which doesn’t hit Russia, it mainly effects the EU, I can’t understand how people can’t see this???
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:36 am

Kiwirob wrote:
jetero wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It's also a law which has huge negative financial implications for Europe, a law the EU has said if it's enacted they would have to retaliate in kind to the US. It's a stupid pointless sanction.



Kiwirob, you are endorsing the Executive branch of the U.S. government to act unilaterally in contravention of the Constitution based on (the convenient argument being used) that a foreign government (other than Russia) would retaliate. Do you understand that?


Do I care no, it’s not my govt, but I do think for once Trump has it correct, if he does sign it there will be bad blood between the US and EU and possibly some kind of barriers against US trade in the EU will be placed. It’s a pointless sanction which doesn’t hit Russia, it mainly effects the EU, I can’t understand how people can’t see this???


You "can't understand how people can't see this?"

So you have, at best, a circumstantial, yet high-profile policy problem (nevermind the overwhelming coincidence). Your solution is to throw the framework of government out the window because you think the policy is wrong?

I can't understand how you can't see what a fool's bargain that would be. (???)
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9165
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:32 am

jetero wrote:
What's it going to take for the light bulbs to go off in deniers' heads that something is absolutely rotten here?!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1FI2V7


Well, the simple fact that the Republicans are already spinning the FBI as biased and political tells you they know beyond doubt that they won´t come out clean. If they did come out clean if would be much, much, much to easy to discredit that finding, after all they said the FBI can´t be trusted....

Almost an admission of guilt.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:25 am

jetero wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
jetero wrote:

Kiwirob, you are endorsing the Executive branch of the U.S. government to act unilaterally in contravention of the Constitution based on (the convenient argument being used) that a foreign government (other than Russia) would retaliate. Do you understand that?


Do I care no, it’s not my govt, but I do think for once Trump has it correct, if he does sign it there will be bad blood between the US and EU and possibly some kind of barriers against US trade in the EU will be placed. It’s a pointless sanction which doesn’t hit Russia, it mainly effects the EU, I can’t understand how people can’t see this???


You "can't understand how people can't see this?"

So you have, at best, a circumstantial, yet high-profile policy problem (nevermind the overwhelming coincidence). Your solution is to throw the framework of government out the window because you think the policy is wrong?

I can't understand how you can't see what a fool's bargain that would be. (???)


Are you really that dense, the US has no right to enact sanctions against Russia which will cause issues with the EU, the US can enact sanctions which cause Russia problems in the US, and only in the US, what they are doing is impinging on the EU's right to do business with Russia, if it goes ahead I do hope the EU slams tariffs and other punitive damages on US companies and imports to the EU.

The policy is wrong, trump has worked this out, isn't it part of his job as President to not sign bad laws??
 
WIederling
Posts: 6866
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:37 am

Ken777 wrote:
IMO Trump had no option but to do what Putin tells him to do. With Putin backing Trump's loans via German banks all it would take is a snap of his fingers to get the loans called and that puts Trump into multiple bankruptcies. Then there are the pee-pee videos that Putin can release at will.
Trump simply has to do what is is ordered.


The hand in the T-Muppet is not Putin's.

Nearer is hotter.
( Whose hand worked hard in the R-Muppet ? )
Murphy is an optimist
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
jetero wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Do I care no, it’s not my govt, but I do think for once Trump has it correct, if he does sign it there will be bad blood between the US and EU and possibly some kind of barriers against US trade in the EU will be placed. It’s a pointless sanction which doesn’t hit Russia, it mainly effects the EU, I can’t understand how people can’t see this???


You "can't understand how people can't see this?"

So you have, at best, a circumstantial, yet high-profile policy problem (nevermind the overwhelming coincidence). Your solution is to throw the framework of government out the window because you think the policy is wrong?

I can't understand how you can't see what a fool's bargain that would be. (???)


Are you really that dense, the US has no right to enact sanctions against Russia which will cause issues with the EU, the US can enact sanctions which cause Russia problems in the US, and only in the US, what they are doing is impinging on the EU's right to do business with Russia, if it goes ahead I do hope the EU slams tariffs and other punitive damages on US companies and imports to the EU.

The policy is wrong, trump has worked this out, isn't it part of his job as President to not sign bad laws??


HE SIGNED IT MONTHS AGO KIWIROB.

Are you really that dense?
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:25 am

jetero wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
jetero wrote:

You "can't understand how people can't see this?"

So you have, at best, a circumstantial, yet high-profile policy problem (nevermind the overwhelming coincidence). Your solution is to throw the framework of government out the window because you think the policy is wrong?

I can't understand how you can't see what a fool's bargain that would be. (???)


Are you really that dense, the US has no right to enact sanctions against Russia which will cause issues with the EU, the US can enact sanctions which cause Russia problems in the US, and only in the US, what they are doing is impinging on the EU's right to do business with Russia, if it goes ahead I do hope the EU slams tariffs and other punitive damages on US companies and imports to the EU.

The policy is wrong, trump has worked this out, isn't it part of his job as President to not sign bad laws??


HE SIGNED IT MONTHS AGO KIWIROB.

Are you really that dense?


Really then what’s the point of this topic, the headline was ‘Trump refuses to enact new sanctions law’, which clearly means he didn’t or can’t you read what you write??
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6690
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Really then what’s the point of this topic, the headline was ‘Trump refuses to enact new sanctions law’, which clearly means he didn’t or can’t you read what you write??

He signed it, but he still needs to direct State and Treasury to enforce the sanctions (ie. target the points of interest as defined by the law and take action to put it in effect).

He's going with the placebo effect...the Russians are feeling squeezed already so there's no need to enforce it.

Almost like saying that a community is kept in check because they feel they're being watched, even though there's no law enforcement anywhere.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:07 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
jetero wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Are you really that dense, the US has no right to enact sanctions against Russia which will cause issues with the EU, the US can enact sanctions which cause Russia problems in the US, and only in the US, what they are doing is impinging on the EU's right to do business with Russia, if it goes ahead I do hope the EU slams tariffs and other punitive damages on US companies and imports to the EU.

The policy is wrong, trump has worked this out, isn't it part of his job as President to not sign bad laws??


HE SIGNED IT MONTHS AGO KIWIROB.

Are you really that dense?


Really then what’s the point of this topic, the headline was ‘Trump refuses to enact new sanctions law’, which clearly means he didn’t or can’t you read what you write??


The force is definitely strong with this one.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6855
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:44 pm

anrec80 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Shooting down MH 17 was just a joke to you anrec?


It's not, and I never said it is. Together with that, the investigation is far from over, and Russia's involvement you is yet to be proven. Together with that, the investigation is a profanation - one likely suspect is not only on the investigation team, but has the right of veto on pretty much anything. Of course all West has left to do is to blame someone from the East...


And here we go again by known tactics for Russian defending with a mix of lies and truth.

1. Russians involvement has yet to be proven in a court of law because there hasn't been a court case yet. What is known is that the Dutch prosecutors are looking for a number of Russian nationals to question them.
2. The investigation into the cause was a truly international effort: Russia was included in that one, remember (!). And Ukraine doesn't have the right to veto "pretty much everything", they have the right not to have their own materials to be published, so things they have brought to light in the first place. And they have signed over the right to pursue criminal charges to The Netherlands, which they did voluntarily. Russia, on the other hand, blocked an international criminal court. See the difference there?
3. And then just doing a Calimero type of conspiracy: "west blaming the good old innocent Russia"

So a mix of lies and half-truth all put into a light of the innocents of Russia. Shameful. And there is still no point in debating Anrec80, just a devoted Russian devoted to autocratic Putin's regime.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:26 pm

Why haul the Malaysian flight into this, it has nothing to do with these sanctions!
 
jetero
Topic Author
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Why haul the Malaysian flight into this, it has nothing to do with these sanctions!


What sanctions?
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:52 pm

RuskiRob is having a bad day.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4541
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:55 pm

So it turns out that Russian intelligence officials visited the US recently, unbeknownst to everyone, and met with high level government staff...

Some of those visitors were even actually officially sanctioned by the US and not technically allowed on US soil unless a special derogation is issued by the Secretary of State....

As usual, we learned about this visit and these meetings through foreign news agencies which monitor Russian news outlets, as the WH tends to keep these meetings secret.

Funny enough, Trump's decision not to enact the sanctions agreed by the house comes right after this visit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/us/p ... cials.html

But hey, I'm sure it's all a great big coincidence.
:sarcastic:

Does anyone reckon Trump stuffs his face full of burgers and fried chicken to get the taste of Putin's d&^# off his mouth?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6866
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:53 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Does anyone reckon Trump stuffs his face full of burgers and fried chicken to get the taste of Putin's d&^# off his mouth?


More like Loosening his tie, sigh of relief, the Russians won't publish some choice US misdeeds.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Scorpius
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Russia, on the other hand, blocked an international criminal court. See the difference there?


Russia's position was clearly explained: why introduce a separate Tribunal, which is not Express authority, when there are already existing under international agreements instance?\
You are trying to manipulate the opinion of the people, shamelessly tricking and replacing facts. You may assume that MH17 shot down by Russia (though Putin personally). But until then, until proven guilty - you HAVE NO RIGHT to say that the crash of MH17 blame Russian. Just for the reason that there is no evidence of their guilt. The more that all people and Russia was the least interested in such event. In turn, Ukraine and the West are clearly identifiable motifs: the death of a passenger airliner is an information about designed to declare the Russian bad. Again. If you follow the rules of ethics - you are a liar and a manipulator.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6855
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:03 pm

You can express your Russian views here freely, no need to resort to name calling..... Although it is a known troll tactic of course, so that's it for my reaction to this matter to you.

We will see what happens in a Dutch court of law.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
salttee
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:10 pm

Scorpius wrote:
You are trying to manipulate the opinion of the people, shamelessly tricking and replacing facts. You may assume that MH17 shot down by Russia (though Putin personally). But until then, until proven guilty - you HAVE NO RIGHT to say that the crash of MH17 blame Russian. Just for the reason that there is no evidence of their guilt.

There is plenty of evidence that a SA-11 telar from the Russian 53rd air defense Brigade shot down MH-17 and absolutely no evidence that throws this conclusion into doubt. When we realize that the telar's firing position was almost directly underneath the intersection of three airways and that the targeted airliner was at 33,000 feet we can conclude that an airliner was intentionally chosen for a target. Anyone familiar with how military organizations manage their assets would know that the 53rd Brigade didn't just give out a SA-11 battery to a bunch of irregular guerillas. It would take a decision from the highest levels of the Russian military to even release a manpad to irregulars.


Thank you Scorpius for providing me the opportunity to re-state this one more time. IMO this message should be shouted from the rooftops until every last uninvolved citizen gets the message.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:44 pm

salttee wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
You are trying to manipulate the opinion of the people, shamelessly tricking and replacing facts. You may assume that MH17 shot down by Russia (though Putin personally). But until then, until proven guilty - you HAVE NO RIGHT to say that the crash of MH17 blame Russian. Just for the reason that there is no evidence of their guilt.

There is plenty of evidence that a SA-11 telar from the Russian 53rd air defense Brigade shot down MH-17 and absolutely no evidence that throws this conclusion into doubt. When we realize that the telar's firing position was almost directly underneath the intersection of three airways and that the targeted airliner was at 33,000 feet we can conclude that an airliner was intentionally chosen for a target. Anyone familiar with how military organizations manage their assets would know that the 53rd Brigade didn't just give out a SA-11 battery to a bunch of irregular guerillas. It would take a decision from the highest levels of the Russian military to even release a manpad to irregulars.


Thank you Scorpius for providing me the opportunity to re-state this one more time. IMO this message should be shouted from the rooftops until every last uninvolved citizen gets the message.


Should we believe the gentlemen's word?
 
Route66
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

The United States has previously worked in tandem with the EU to develop sanctions responses to Russian aggression over the annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. The economic bloc worries that American sanctions developed without their input could jeopardise the continent’s energy security. That includes hurting companies financing a contentious new pipeline — the Nord Stream 2 — that would carry natural gas from Russia to Germany.

There are five western firms partnering with Russia’s Gazprom to build that pipeline, including Germany’s Wintershall and Uniper, the Anglo-Dutch company Royal Dutch Shell, Austria’s OMV, and France’s Engie.

“The U.S. bill could have unintended unilateral effects that impact the EU's energy security interests,” Mr Juncker said in a statement following a meeting with fellow European commissioners.


What is more mind boggling is this tidbit from Europe. Why in hell does Europe, at the beckoning of Germany, continue to make itself even more reliant on Russian energy than they already are? Putin would never threaten to close the spigots, right?

The message from Europe really is confusing. Is Putin dangerous or not? If not, then what reason does the US have to worry about him? If so, then who in their right minds willingly makes themselves reliant on their antagonist?

And on the American side, Democrats today suddenly sound like the John Birch Society of the 60's. Pretty sure US policy should be somewhere in the middle. And this obsessive outrage about supposed election interference, this is sheer hypocrisy. As if the US never interfered in the elections of others. Treat the Russians like merde and they're going to want to do the same in return. And they have the brains and strength to be more than just mischievous.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:54 pm

Dutchy wrote:
We will see what happens in a Dutch court of law.


I was just talking about it. You blame the Russians even before the investigation is completed and held court. Too many questions and inconsistencies in the testimony exists now, and we have already dismantled. Russia had no reason to shoot down MH17. No motive for the crime - this is a serious hint that the selected result version of events is not true. Just so there are no killings even at the household level, and we are talking about the murder of several hundred people.
And here Russia there was no reason to shoot down civilian aircraft.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11658
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:56 pm

Putins not dangerous, America is dangerous, plus it’s not just Germany buying Russian gas, the US should stop meddling in European affairs, wasn’t the US under Trump supposed to isolate itself from the world, it’s not doing a very good job of it.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6855
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:02 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
We will see what happens in a Dutch court of law.


I was just talking about it. You blame the Russians even before the investigation is completed and held court. Too many questions and inconsistencies in the testimony exists now, and we have already dismantled. Russia had no reason to shoot down MH17. No motive for the crime - this is a serious hint that the selected result version of events is not true. Just so there are no killings even at the household level, and we are talking about the murder of several hundred people.
And here Russia there was no reason to shoot down civilian aircraft.


Great you will accept the Dutch court system, good for you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:17 pm

Dutchy wrote:

Great you will accept the Dutch court system, good for you.

You're wrong, I didn't say that.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6855
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Refuses to Enact New Russia Sanctions Law

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:34 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Great you will accept the Dutch court system, good for you.

You're wrong, I didn't say that.


And that's why there is no way to have an intelligent debate with you about the subject, you will shoot down every option besides the official Russian version and you will believe no justice system besides the Russian one. So you are either indoctrinated by the Russian government or you are a Russian troll.

We will see what happens with getting justice for the 298 innocent victims by Russian aggression. As for the sanctions they were for the annexation of Crimea and for the continuing of support for the east Ukranian rebels.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: B777LRF, bagoldex, bananaboy, ha763, Kiwirob, lentokone, melpax, Redd and 17 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos