• 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 32
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:58 am

A.net logic tells us that the Daily Mail is inadmissible unless it supports the anti Brexit View. A.net logic also tells us the MOL is the devil but no doubt he’ll be elevated to hero status given how fickle your average remoaners are.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary threatens to ground planes after Brexit in a bid to force Britain 'rethink' its vote to quit the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5469581/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-threatens-ground-planes-post-Brexit.html

Stop flying in one of his biggest and most nature markets? How much would his beloved EU cost him in EU261 claims?

Poor old Micky.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:00 am

sevenair wrote:
A.net logic tells us that the Daily Mail is inadmissible unless it supports the anti Brexit View. A.net logic also tells us the MOL is the devil but no doubt he’ll be elevated to hero status given how fickle your average remoaners are.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary threatens to ground planes after Brexit in a bid to force Britain 'rethink' its vote to quit the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5469581/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-threatens-ground-planes-post-Brexit.html

Stop flying in one of his biggest and most nature markets? How much would his beloved EU cost him in EU261 claims?

Poor old Micky.


Could you just point to us who in the commission cares about MOL PR stunts ?
 
LTenEleven
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:00 am

And for some reality from the U.K. side (the European Parliament this time):
https://www.politico.eu/article/europea ... it-vision/

— A “deep and comprehensive” trade deal must entail “a binding interpretation role” for the European Court of Justice and “does not allow cherry-picking of sectors of the internal market.”

— One priority is that a “level playing field is ensured and EU standards are safeguarded and a race to the bottom avoided,” and that maintaining a level playing field means abiding by the EU’s competition and state aid rules.

— “Limitations in the cross-border provisions of financial services are a customary feature of [free trade agreements].”
 
LTenEleven
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:02 am

sevenair wrote:
A.net logic tells us that the Daily Mail is inadmissible unless it supports the anti Brexit View. A.net logic also tells us the MOL is the devil but no doubt he’ll be elevated to hero status given how fickle your average remoaners are.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary threatens to ground planes after Brexit in a bid to force Britain 'rethink' its vote to quit the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5469581/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-threatens-ground-planes-post-Brexit.html

Stop flying in one of his biggest and most nature markets? How much would his beloved EU cost him in EU261 claims?

Poor old Micky.


You are falling for O’Leary’s latest attempt to generate some free news headlines?

But that shouldn’t surprise anyone when you also fell for the £350 million on the side of a bus.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:08 am

LTenEleven wrote:
sevenair wrote:
A.net logic tells us that the Daily Mail is inadmissible unless it supports the anti Brexit View. A.net logic also tells us the MOL is the devil but no doubt he’ll be elevated to hero status given how fickle your average remoaners are.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary threatens to ground planes after Brexit in a bid to force Britain 'rethink' its vote to quit the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5469581/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-threatens-ground-planes-post-Brexit.html

Stop flying in one of his biggest and most nature markets? How much would his beloved EU cost him in EU261 claims?

Poor old Micky.


You are falling for O’Leary’s latest attempt to generate some free news headlines?

But that shouldn’t surprise anyone when you also fell for the £350 million on the side of a bus.


Like you fell for cancer, war in Europe, having to pay to go to Spain, needing a visa to use the Eurostar, house price crash, mass unemployment, depression? And save your 'we haven't left yet' nonsense. It's as tedious as your red bus jibe. And darling, if I thought the NHS would get one PENNY more due to Brexit, I'd have voted remain.
Last edited by sevenair on Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:13 am

Olddog wrote:
sevenair wrote:
A.net logic tells us that the Daily Mail is inadmissible unless it supports the anti Brexit View. A.net logic also tells us the MOL is the devil but no doubt he’ll be elevated to hero status given how fickle your average remoaners are.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary threatens to ground planes after Brexit in a bid to force Britain 'rethink' its vote to quit the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5469581/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-threatens-ground-planes-post-Brexit.html

Stop flying in one of his biggest and most nature markets? How much would his beloved EU cost him in EU261 claims?

Poor old Micky.


Could you just point to us who in the commission cares about MOL PR stunts ?


He's trying to stop Brexit. Only the UK can stop Brexit, no matter how much the EU tries to meddle. He's using his position to try sway internal politics. He better be careful. Jamie Oliver alienated half of his customer base and look how his empire is performing. Ah, 'but it's failing because of Brexit' I hear him (re)moan.

I see MOL is now meddling in on the Heathrow debate. It seems he wants us to stay in the EU and not to expand LHR. For such a small insignificant country who is allegedly committing an act of self destruct, he doesn't half have a strong interest in us.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:55 am

sevenair wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
sevenair wrote:
A.net logic tells us that the Daily Mail is inadmissible unless it supports the anti Brexit View. A.net logic also tells us the MOL is the devil but no doubt he’ll be elevated to hero status given how fickle your average remoaners are.

Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary threatens to ground planes after Brexit in a bid to force Britain 'rethink' its vote to quit the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5469581/Ryanair-boss-Michael-OLeary-threatens-ground-planes-post-Brexit.html

Stop flying in one of his biggest and most nature markets? How much would his beloved EU cost him in EU261 claims?

Poor old Micky.


You are falling for O’Leary’s latest attempt to generate some free news headlines?

But that shouldn’t surprise anyone when you also fell for the £350 million on the side of a bus.


Like you fell for cancer, war in Europe, having to pay to go to Spain, needing a visa to use the Eurostar, house price crash, mass unemployment, depression? And save your 'we haven't left yet' nonsense. It's as tedious as your red bus jibe.


Truth is often tedious.

It's easier to fall for the green fields of free-range unicorns that the UK will become after Brexit.

I notice that you're now taking that future will not be like mad Max line instead of Empire 2.0. It's a small step, but one in the right direction. Expectations need to be managed in small decreases.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:13 am

JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:

You are falling for O’Leary’s latest attempt to generate some free news headlines?

But that shouldn’t surprise anyone when you also fell for the £350 million on the side of a bus.


Like you fell for cancer, war in Europe, having to pay to go to Spain, needing a visa to use the Eurostar, house price crash, mass unemployment, depression? And save your 'we haven't left yet' nonsense. It's as tedious as your red bus jibe.


Truth is often tedious.

It's easier to fall for the green fields of free-range unicorns that the UK will become after Brexit.

I notice that you're now taking that future will not be like mad Max line instead of Empire 2.0. It's a small step, but one in the right direction. Expectations need to be managed in small decreases.


Oh yes. That other super tedious nonsense from the remoaners about us wanting to bring back the Empire! You need to work on some new material that doesn't involve big red busses or the Empire my friend as they've been covered on here many a time before.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:05 am

sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:

Like you fell for cancer, war in Europe, having to pay to go to Spain, needing a visa to use the Eurostar, house price crash, mass unemployment, depression? And save your 'we haven't left yet' nonsense. It's as tedious as your red bus jibe.


Truth is often tedious.

It's easier to fall for the green fields of free-range unicorns that the UK will become after Brexit.

I notice that you're now taking that future will not be like mad Max line instead of Empire 2.0. It's a small step, but one in the right direction. Expectations need to be managed in small decreases.


Oh yes. That other super tedious nonsense from the remoaners about us wanting to bring back the Empire! You need to work on some new material that doesn't involve big red busses or the Empire my friend as they've been covered on here many a time before.


Empire 2.0 is an official government quote. Make of that what you want.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:15 am

JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Truth is often tedious.

It's easier to fall for the green fields of free-range unicorns that the UK will become after Brexit.

I notice that you're now taking that future will not be like mad Max line instead of Empire 2.0. It's a small step, but one in the right direction. Expectations need to be managed in small decreases.


Oh yes. That other super tedious nonsense from the remoaners about us wanting to bring back the Empire! You need to work on some new material that doesn't involve big red busses or the Empire my friend as they've been covered on here many a time before.


Empire 2.0 is an official government quote. Make of that what you want.


Originally I thought it would be a Boris quote as it sounds right up his street. However on briefly searching I found this to be the basis of the 'Empire 2.0' quote. I'd much appreciate it if you could cite a link to a source which backs up this claim from a credible source. It would seem that if it were indeed the intentions of HMG to go down the route of 'Empire 2.0' then they'd surely put their name to it?

A U.K. minister close to the organization of the event, who did not want to be named, said there had been a concerted effort to make sure that the event did not look like “Empire 2.0” after previous criticisms that Britain’s post-Brexit Commonwealth trade push had colonial connotations.


I know it's trendy to claim we are all savage racists hellbent on invading countries and controlling them just like the Empire (which 99.9% of us had NOTHING to do with) but the reality seems much more progressive.

Britain has promised developing nations trade relations will stay the same or improve after Brexit in a bid to quell economic fears. Ministers are also keen on starting talks to allow the UK to work closely with an African free trade zone.


Now 'working closely with' doesn't sound like the Empire we are hated for and encourage to self-hate oneself over, does it? Personally I look forward to working with a diverse set of countries with people of every colour and not be reliant on the all white EU to negotiate for us. If that makes me a dirty imperialist then so be it!
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:46 am

It started in Liam Fox work group.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 19326.html

Ever since those "Whitehall sources" outed the term it's been in regular use, mostly to try to wipe the colonial tint off.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:50 am

JJJ wrote:
It started in Liam Fox work group.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 19326.html

Ever since those "Whitehall sources" outed the term it's been in regular use, mostly to try to wipe the colonial tint off.


It seems to have started a while ago. We have had much change in HMG. I'd expect a name to have been put to the claim given that there were likely several attendees. It also seems that it was their opinion that it is 'Empire 2.0' and not an official speaking about it. Certainly not Fox.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:51 am

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-tusk-issues-draft-guidelines-for-post-brexit-trade-deal/

There’s only one dish on the EU’s post-Brexit, future relationship menu: a free trade agreement with zero tariffs, covering all goods — and perhaps services “to an extent.”

European Council President Donald Tusk put forward draft negotiating guidelines Wednesday that seek to maintain “as close as possible a partnership with the U.K.” but that is effectively constrained to a free trade agreement because of London’s insistence on quitting the EU single market and customs union.

The six-page draft document, a copy of which was obtained by POLITICO, make no specific mention of financial services, which the U.K. is keen to include in a future partnership agreement because of London’s lucrative banking industry.

Instead, the document — which will now undergo intense negotiation and inevitable revisions by the 27 remaining EU countries — holds out the possibility that the future accord would cover “trade in services … to an extent consistent with the fact that the U.K. will become a third country and the [European] Union and the U.K. will no longer share a common regulatory, supervisor, enforcement and judiciary framework.”

EU officials have stated repeatedly in recent days that EU regulation of financial services is now accomplished in a community approach that will make it extremely difficult if not impossible for a broad agreement with a third country. Still, the draft guidelines also do not expressly rule out such a deal with the U.K. if one can be achieved.

While restating the EU’s desire for a close partnership, the draft guidelines state: “The European Council has to take into account the repeatedly stated positions of the U.K., which limit the depth of such a future partnership. Being outside the customs union and the single market will inevitably lead to frictions.”

Indeed, the frictions are already quite apparent.


That March 22 meeting should be very interesting....
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:59 am

I see MOL claims flights could be disrupted due to Brexit from April 2018 onwards. It's funny how the start of the summer schedule is coincident with his anti Brexit stopping of flights. A sudden increase in flights due to the summer timetable coming into force coming just months after thousands of flights were grounded as 'pilots needed to take leave'. This all coming just days after announcing a 'revolutionary' training scheme where new pilots pay just £5k instead of £30k for the pleasure of working for them plus a 5 year bond.

Crewing issues it seems but good try MOL!

Despite promising to 'pivot away' from the UK, Ryanair announced two new routes yesterday from LPL and BOH to PFO. At Stansted, 1 new route to Nantes (4 wkly), 2 new winter routes to Belfast (3 daily) and Edinburgh (4 daily, More flights on 15 existing routes. I suppose we better 'enjoy' these flights whilst they last as all of the domestics will be culled after Brexit. Or so we were told.

This is MOL's Ratner moment. People will not risk their summer holidays to book with them. Instead of damage limitation after last summer's farce, he has promised more flight cuts and blamed Brexit.
Last edited by sevenair on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
vc10
Posts: 1409
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:03 pm

I have to say that that it seems that most of the people stating the difficulties that the UK will face once we leave the EU are from the EU , so us leaving would seem to be of more interest to EU citizens than to people from the UK.
Now it seems to me there is a lot that is good with the EU ,but also there is a lot that is wrong, but which it seems impossible to change. An example is when Blair gave back a portion of the annual UK rebate it was on the understanding that the CAP would be seriously revised , however so I understand this did not come about because of French objections. So we give back some money for no change in the EU policy
Also to stop moving the parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg and back every year , did not happen due to french objections

So it is not always the the UK that causes difficulties to changing the EU

Any major changes that have occurred in the EU have usually come about after Germany and France have had a private meeting and emerge with a new treaty for the future of the EU. This has to be approved eventually by all the separate governments of the EU , but as most of the countries are fund recipients of the EU budget they tend to agree , which leaves the UK as a major contributor out n it's own to veto it and become the bad boy again or just lie down and accept it.
Now because of many things like it's long independent history which led to things being in many ways different to the rest of Europe, such as legal system , banking government involvement in industry the UK finds it hard to accept rules being forced on it by a foreign government, and so the people of the UK decided to leave the EU which can then continue in it's own way , whilst the UK goes it own way.

The UK does wish the EU project any harm, but feels the UK would be better on it's own, and would like to have amicable relations with our nearest neighbours, but it would seem that this is not the EU 's policy. An example of this is the Northern Ireland problem with a hard border . The UK government do not want a hard border , but the EU do so just let the EU install one which is nothing to do with the British government, but this has become a major arguing point by the EU who try to insist it is a British problem which it is not.
Anyway let us hope this all ends up amicably
 
bennett123
Posts: 8102
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:07 pm

Without a hard border, what is to stop any EU Citizen traveling to Ireland, as they are entitled to, then walking/driving North into the UK.

How can we control our Borders.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:10 pm

We all hope for a close and progressive relationship with our closest neighbours with whom we have achieved a great deal together. I too hope for an amicable divorce but despite knowing many people who've divorced, things always start amicable and before long they turn very nasty very quickly. I'll admit that we stand to lose more but the people of this great nation and the EU will both be worse off in the near future if we don't.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:13 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Without a hard border, what is to stop any EU Citizen traveling to Ireland, as they are entitled to, then walking/driving North into the UK.

How can we control our Borders.


It's been covered. You can't is the short answer. All you can do is make the UK less attractive for them and remove the demand to come here illegally such as healthcare, education, welfare etc.

Varadkar may claim that the border won't have anything to do with Ireland and that Ireland won't help at all as it was a UK descision to leave but in reality the EU nations are responsible for borders too.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:31 pm

sevenair wrote:

It's been covered. You can't is the short answer. All you can do is make the UK less attractive for them and remove the demand to come here illegally such as healthcare, education, welfare etc.


Healthcare - UK now has massive problems with the NHS. Long waits, staff shortages, massive problems with debt (PPI), less spent per head of population, and compared to major EU countries and overall worse experience (major I define as France, Belgium, Holland, Germany) . It wasn't always the case before but is now. The level of healthcare tourism is tiny. Now only emergency care is covered, any other type of non urgent operation is charged for in full.
Education - UK universities are the most expensive in the EU, living costs are amongst the highest in the EU. Other EU uni's are massively cheaper, still a very high standard of education, living costs are cheaper etc. There is no stigma of feeling unwelcome. I expect a massive reduction in foreign students going to UK uni's, if it hasn't happened already. And most UK universities only have the level of education because of funding from students from overseas.
Welfare - Completely bogus. You can and always could eject EU citizens after 3 months if they do not have a job and cannot pay their way.

I remind you that EU migrants on average take less in benefits than UK citizens, work longer hours, have higher productivity levels and are less ill. The UK has massive problems with productivity, a massive skills shortage in hospitality, NHS, building etc.

sevenair wrote:
Varadkar may claim that the border won't have anything to do with Ireland and that Ireland won't help at all as it was a UK descision to leave but in reality the EU nations are responsible for borders too.


That's true, but what the UK wants isn't possible. Either:

The border moves to the Irish Sea = Completely unacceptable for DUP. Massively expensive to put into place. Will harm the 30 Billion € worth of UK > Ireland trade yearly.
There is a hard border between Ireland and N Ireland = Not possible. Sinn Féin will object, not possible to enforce border checks on 250 locations. Technology is not the answer.
UK "a single market" that Labour proposes = No detail, likely not something EU will agree to without freedom of movement = you and leavers won't accept this.

= No answer.

See it's both sides with completely unmoveable views with major consequences if either happens.

If the EU agrees to it for the UK's special circumstances it will then have to do the same for others that ask for it. It will set a legal precedent.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:53 pm

I was not alluding to health tourism. I was making the point from an immigrant coming here to stay. The NHS is free at the point of care for those entitled to it. We have been promised by remainers that our access to free healcare in the EU will stop for us so it’s not unreasonable to expect us to do the same.

We provide free education to children and adolescents as well as 30 hours per week free pre school.

You can still send money home to kids. So we have one worker potentially sending child welfare home indefinitely.

Work permits would also be a huge hurdle for workers. If we are going to need visas to go to Spain then it’s not unreasonable to expect that a work permit will be required.

If people can’t work (like we won’t be able to in the EU like remainers promise), if they can’t have babies as they’re no longer entitled to so called ‘free healthcare work (like we won’t be able to in the EU like remainers promise) and won’t be able to get their kids educated for free work (like we won’t be able to in the EU like remainers promise) then what’s the point of coming here?

Reinhardt wrote:
sevenair wrote:

It's been covered. You can't is the short answer. All you can do is make the UK less attractive for them and remove the demand to come here illegally such as healthcare, education, welfare etc.


Healthcare - UK now has massive problems with the NHS. Long waits, staff shortages, massive problems with debt (PPI), less spent per head of population, and compared to major EU countries and overall worse experience (major I define as France, Belgium, Holland, Germany) . It wasn't always the case before but is now. The level of healthcare tourism is tiny. Now only emergency care is covered, any other type of non urgent operation is charged for in full.
Education - UK universities are the most expensive in the EU, living costs are amongst the highest in the EU. Other EU uni's are massively cheaper, still a very high standard of education, living costs are cheaper etc. There is no stigma of feeling unwelcome. I expect a massive reduction in foreign students going to UK uni's, if it hasn't happened already. And most UK universities only have the level of education because of funding from students from overseas.
Welfare - Completely bogus. You can and always could eject EU citizens after 3 months if they do not have a job and cannot pay their way.

I remind you that EU migrants on average take less in benefits than UK citizens, work longer hours, have higher productivity levels and are less ill. The UK has massive problems with productivity, a massive skills shortage in hospitality, NHS, building etc.

sevenair wrote:
Varadkar may claim that the border won't have anything to do with Ireland and that Ireland won't help at all as it was a UK descision to leave but in reality the EU nations are responsible for borders too.


That's true, but what the UK wants isn't possible. Either:

The border moves to the Irish Sea = Completely unacceptable for DUP. Massively expensive to put into place. Will harm the 30 Billion € worth of UK > Ireland trade yearly.
There is a hard border between Ireland and N Ireland = Not possible. Sinn Féin will object, not possible to enforce border checks on 250 locations. Technology is not the answer.
UK "a single market" that Labour proposes = No detail, likely not something EU will agree to without freedom of movement = you and leavers won't accept this.

= No answer.

See it's both sides with completely unmoveable views with major consequences if either happens.

If the EU agrees to it for the UK's special circumstances it will then have to do the same for others that ask for it. It will set a legal precedent.


If you’re so sure about what won’t work then tell us what will work? Do remember:

-we are leaving the EU
-we are leaving the single market
-there can be no border on the island of Ireland
-we will not allow the annexation of NI by the EU

Actually I think you'll find that I have no problem with FOM and where I live we don't have a problem with any immigration both EU and extra EU.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:28 pm

sevenair wrote:

-we are leaving the EU
-we are leaving the single market
-there can be no border on the island of Ireland
-we will not allow the annexation of NI by the EU


Which is a mutually exclusive set of demands unless one gets really creative with the definition of "leaving" and "border".

The sooner the UK realises that, the better.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:47 pm

JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:

-we are leaving the EU
-we are leaving the single market
-there can be no border on the island of Ireland
-we will not allow the annexation of NI by the EU


Which is a mutually exclusive set of demands unless one gets really creative with the definition of "leaving" and "border".

The sooner the UK realises that, the better.


It seems that remainers simply try and go down the path of Brexit being too difficult and hoping that it’ll simply go away. It won’t.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:04 pm

sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:

-we are leaving the EU
-we are leaving the single market
-there can be no border on the island of Ireland
-we will not allow the annexation of NI by the EU


Which is a mutually exclusive set of demands unless one gets really creative with the definition of "leaving" and "border".

The sooner the UK realises that, the better.


It seems that remainers simply try and go down the path of Brexit being too difficult and hoping that it’ll simply go away. It won’t.


And leavers think that just saying "it will work" will make all the pieces magically fit. They won't.

I don't think that I can qualify as a remainer, for that matter.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:06 pm

JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Which is a mutually exclusive set of demands unless one gets really creative with the definition of "leaving" and "border".

The sooner the UK realises that, the better.


It seems that remainers simply try and go down the path of Brexit being too difficult and hoping that it’ll simply go away. It won’t.


And leavers think that just saying "it will work" will make all the pieces magically fit. They won't.

I don't think that I can qualify as a remainer, for that matter.


If it’s so blinding obvious what won’t work then suggest a route to down, perhaps?

If it’s so blindingly obvious what won’t work then suggest something that will. Suggest a train of thought.

If joining the EEC was irreversible (as remain seem to be implying that it is due to the border situation) then were people adequately warned during the referendum to join it?

If it was so blindingly obvious that it’s not possible to leave the SM, as we were all told we would, then perhaps that would have made a better tag line for the big blue bus and for the £9m government leafleting campaign?
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:15 pm

sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:

It seems that remainers simply try and go down the path of Brexit being too difficult and hoping that it’ll simply go away. It won’t.


And leavers think that just saying "it will work" will make all the pieces magically fit. They won't.

I don't think that I can qualify as a remainer, for that matter.


If it’s so blinding obvious what won’t work then suggest a route to down, perhaps?

If it’s so blindingly obvious what won’t work then suggest something that will. Suggest a train of thought.

If joining the EEC was irreversible (as remain seem to be implying that it is due to the border situation) then were people adequately warned during the referendum to join it?

If it was so blindingly obvious that it’s not possible to leave the SM, as we were all told we would, then perhaps that would have made a better tag line for the big blue bus and for the £9m government leafleting campaign?


I'm not the one who committed myself to two mutually exclusive sets of goals.

It is definitely possible to leave the EU, that's why there is such a thing as art. 50. Bear with the consequences and tell the Irish (and Scots, but especially the Irish) that their vote isn't worth crap and that they'd better brace for a few years of painful economic reorientation and a real border.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7894
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:43 pm

sevenair wrote:
If it was so blindingly obvious that it’s not possible to leave the SM, as we were all told we would, then perhaps that would have made a better tag line for the big blue bus and for the £9m government leafleting campaign?


Well, UKs domestic problems are not really the EUs problem, not even while they are an EU member.

The UK has to square that circle all by itself, and they have to deal with the domestic resistance.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
sevenair
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:44 pm

JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:

And leavers think that just saying "it will work" will make all the pieces magically fit. They won't.

I don't think that I can qualify as a remainer, for that matter.


If it’s so blinding obvious what won’t work then suggest a route to down, perhaps?

If it’s so blindingly obvious what won’t work then suggest something that will. Suggest a train of thought.

If joining the EEC was irreversible (as remain seem to be implying that it is due to the border situation) then were people adequately warned during the referendum to join it?

If it was so blindingly obvious that it’s not possible to leave the SM, as we were all told we would, then perhaps that would have made a better tag line for the big blue bus and for the £9m government leafleting campaign?


I'm not the one who committed myself to two mutually exclusive sets of goals.

It is definitely possible to leave the EU, that's why there is such a thing as art. 50. Bear with the consequences and tell the Irish (and Scots, but especially the Irish) that their vote isn't worth crap and that they'd better brace for a few years of painful economic reorientation and a real border.


I can’t say I feel anything particular toward constituent countries and Brexit. I think NI is a drain and Scotland were warned by the Scottish government’s white paper on indyref1 that Brexit was a real possibility and yet the Scottish voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the UK and one million of them voted to leave the EU.
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:56 pm

sevenair wrote:
JJJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:

If it’s so blinding obvious what won’t work then suggest a route to down, perhaps?

If it’s so blindingly obvious what won’t work then suggest something that will. Suggest a train of thought.

If joining the EEC was irreversible (as remain seem to be implying that it is due to the border situation) then were people adequately warned during the referendum to join it?

If it was so blindingly obvious that it’s not possible to leave the SM, as we were all told we would, then perhaps that would have made a better tag line for the big blue bus and for the £9m government leafleting campaign?


I'm not the one who committed myself to two mutually exclusive sets of goals.

It is definitely possible to leave the EU, that's why there is such a thing as art. 50. Bear with the consequences and tell the Irish (and Scots, but especially the Irish) that their vote isn't worth crap and that they'd better brace for a few years of painful economic reorientation and a real border.


I can’t say I feel anything particular toward constituent countries and Brexit. I think NI is a drain and Scotland were warned by the Scottish government’s white paper on indyref1 that Brexit was a real possibility and yet the Scottish voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the UK and one million of them voted to leave the EU.


Actually the first instance of Project Fear (in Leavespeak) was warning the Scots that they were on their own and out of the EU if they voted leave.

Nice bit of revisionism there.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:02 pm

sevenair wrote:
If you’re so sure about what won’t work then tell us what will work? Do remember:
-we are leaving the EU


At the moment true. However depending on the exact "deal" that is negotiated a lot of us hope there to have to be a free vote in the house.If the deal is a Canada style deal, WTO rules or a hard border in Ireland it will not go through. Even if there is no vote, it will be incredibly hard for the Conversatives to sell this to parliament. Bearing in mind the majority of MPs are remainers. If it doesn't go through the house there will in all likelihood have to be a new PM and probably a general election.

sevenair wrote:
-we are leaving the single market
-there can be no border on the island of Ireland
-we will not allow the annexation of NI by the EU


As others have alluded to, there is no solution which is why we are not offering one. The only solution is no Brexit. And this is only one topic out of dozens that the UK govenment cannot provide an answer to, which is why their strategy is in chaos. Don't even get me started on how they've hung 1 million UK nationals out to dry (like me) who live and work in mainland EU. The EU cares more about our future than the Conservatives. The lack of detail on our future is disgraceful.
Last edited by Reinhardt on Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:21 pm

sevenair wrote:
If it’s so blinding obvious what won’t work then suggest a route to down, perhaps?
If it’s so blindingly obvious what won’t work then suggest something that will. Suggest a train of thought.


There is none. As the EU has said all along. Which leavers have completely ignored and the Government too ill advised or stupid to understand. When even David Davis realised how little he knew about how the EU functioned, what the rules were, how stupid his position was, he went very quiet on the subject.

sevenair wrote:
If joining the EEC was irreversible (as remain seem to be implying that it is due to the border situation) then were people adequately warned during the referendum to join it?


Because it was never thought anyone would be stupid enough to call a referendum on leaving. Let alone have leave win. In a Representative democracy you don't do such things because it leads to this situation.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7894
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:29 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
The only solution is no Brexit.


That is not true, a soft brexit would work just as well. Problem is that just 20% or so, of those that voted in the referendum, want that vs. 30% that want a hard Brexit. Of course there is the 49% plurality that voted remain....

don't even get me started on how they've hung 1 million UK nationals out to dry (like me) who live and work in mainland EU.


Don't worry, the law abiding, educated with jobs won't have any trouble with a work permit. We are like Mexiko, we don't send the best ;)

The EU cares more about our future than the Conservatives. The lack of detail on our future is disgraceful.


Yup, and that is why the above is true. We also don't shoot our own economy consciously in the foot....

Offering that NI may stay in the single market as a solution to the border problem also shows how far the EU is willing to bend its rules to address the issue, while the UK government is rigid as a steel reinforced concrete column.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 7803
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:57 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
And since you are the junior partner in pretty much any negotiation that counts, it will be unlikely that you get the same deal as the Elephant in the room, the EU, that is a big enough market to negotiate on eye level with everyone.

best regards
Thomas

So the EU is being benevolent in its dealings with the UK, I think not, they are doing exactly what they claim the USA, India, China or any other nation who the UK approaches for trade are doing, which is to take advantage wherever possible, which is fine, it is the way the world works.
Unfortunately, those in the UK who are opposed to the leave, seem to think that the EU doing it to them is in UK's best interest
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:22 pm

par13del wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
And since you are the junior partner in pretty much any negotiation that counts, it will be unlikely that you get the same deal as the Elephant in the room, the EU, that is a big enough market to negotiate on eye level with everyone.

best regards
Thomas

So the EU is being benevolent in its dealings with the UK, I think not, they are doing exactly what they claim the USA, India, China or any other nation who the UK approaches for trade are doing, which is to take advantage wherever possible, which is fine, it is the way the world works.
Unfortunately, those in the UK who are opposed to the leave, seem to think that the EU doing it to them is in UK's best interest


No country would offer a package like the Canadian deal as its first proposition and on such a short notice, without even sitting down for talks. The EU is doing exactly that.

The Brexit situation is unique in the way that it is dismantling a trade deal rather than building one. Nothing remotely like that has ever been achieved short of countries splitting up.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:35 pm

LJ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
You are taking the real politik view and of course, this has something to do with it for some people. But I look at the stability of the Euro and the financial markets in general. For instance, the Dutch pension funds are huge, about 1,3trillion Euro, they are obliged to have their assets maintained within the EU, so that means most wealth is managed in London at the moment. After the Brexit this will be within the EU.


Yet everything is politics. Given the market it's irrelevant where the market is located. The requirement that pension funds have to maintain their assets in an EU country is purely politics, although it does make sense. Heck, it's strange that the EUR market is currently primarily located in a country who never surported it. Hence why the EU politicians will never allow the UK to retain their passporting rights (unless they offer something really big).


Pension fund thing is risk-averse, not politics.Even though Brittian is not in the Eurozone, it does have to follow the same financial rules as is maintained in the rest of the EU. That's what's changing with the Brexit.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LJ
Posts: 4477
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
You are taking the real politik view and of course, this has something to do with it for some people. But I look at the stability of the Euro and the financial markets in general. For instance, the Dutch pension funds are huge, about 1,3trillion Euro, they are obliged to have their assets maintained within the EU, so that means most wealth is managed in London at the moment. After the Brexit this will be within the EU.


Yet everything is politics. Given the market it's irrelevant where the market is located. The requirement that pension funds have to maintain their assets in an EU country is purely politics, although it does make sense. Heck, it's strange that the EUR market is currently primarily located in a country who never surported it. Hence why the EU politicians will never allow the UK to retain their passporting rights (unless they offer something really big).
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 7803
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:59 pm

JJJ wrote:
The Brexit situation is unique in the way that it is dismantling a trade deal rather than building one. Nothing remotely like that has ever been achieved short of countries splitting up.

...which in essence is what Brexit is all about. The Europe Project which is the EU was always about closer integration, much as some don't like the term, the United States of Europe, hence the numerous treaties etc which passed powers to the EU, so yes, it is in theory the splitting up of a country, there are some in the UK who don't know how to perform basic country functions, hence the mass confusion on their side creating mountains out of mole hills.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 7803
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:12 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
As others have alluded to, there is no solution which is why we are not offering one. The only solution is no Brexit.

So back to the initial problem that the citizens of the UK should never have been given a vote on the EU, unfortunately, that horse already left the barn.

Reinhardt wrote:
And this is only one topic out of dozens that the UK govenment cannot provide an answer to, which is why their strategy is in chaos. Don't even get me started on how they've hung 1 million UK nationals out to dry (like me) who live and work in mainland EU. The EU cares more about our future than the Conservatives. The lack of detail on our future is disgraceful.

The UK cannot provide answers because the the UK government does not support the results of the vote, why exactly would any remainer be in the cabinet?
In other jurisdictions, when the vote came in they would / could simply ignore it and say they were not leaving, especially as the vote was not legally binding, however, that is not how the UK works so we have the mess that was made. The basic problem is that all and sundry are playing brinkmanship, indeed, no one as yet know's how much the divorce bill will be, and a lot of clarity about a lot of things will require funding, so you don't know the bill figure and you have a Chancellor who wants to wait util the last minute to fund necessary infrastructure, still don't know why he was not among those up for ejection.....
 
LJ
Posts: 4477
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:17 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Pension fund thing is risk-averse, not politics.Even though Brittian is not in the Eurozone, it does have to follow the same financial rules as is maintained in the rest of the EU. That's what's changing with the Brexit.


The policy has been put in place to ensure that pension funds don't go outside the EU and thus indeed, it's risk-averse but from a government point of view. As such it were the politicians which decided this, not the pension funds and/or other retail investment companies. Some governments would like that their pension funds are manged from their own country. However, that's not possible with the free movement of capital within the EU.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm

par13del wrote:
JJJ wrote:
The Brexit situation is unique in the way that it is dismantling a trade deal rather than building one. Nothing remotely like that has ever been achieved short of countries splitting up.

...which in essence is what Brexit is all about. The Europe Project which is the EU was always about closer integration, much as some don't like the term, the United States of Europe, hence the numerous treaties etc which passed powers to the EU, so yes, it is in theory the splitting up of a country, there are some in the UK who don't know how to perform basic country functions, hence the mass confusion on their side creating mountains out of mole hills.


So in short: they created this mess, they better come up with something.

Goodwill only gets to a certain point, and in any case is no substitute for basic guidance and leadership. Those like our own sevenair here or the most hardcore leavers in the cabinet and in Westminster have clear ideas but very little in the way of implementation, when not a clear lack of understanding of the most basic elements of trade.

The most experienced civil servants jumped ship, and Davis himself plans to retire and have Boris eat the fallout.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 23361.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/1 ... s-eu-2019/

Which of course has led some key voices to crow the "Brexit would be a success if you believed enough" line which is absolute nonsense from whichever angle you want to look at it from.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 7803
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:03 pm

JJJ wrote:
The most experienced civil servants jumped ship, and Davis himself plans to retire and have Boris eat the fallout.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 23361.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/1 ... s-eu-2019/

Which of course has led some key voices to crow the "Brexit would be a success if you believed enough" line which is absolute nonsense from whichever angle you want to look at it from.

Not really, if the negotiators don't believe, what exactly are they going to negotiate? One cannot assume that they will put country above personal ambitions, after all, if one of the main theories behind the EU is the removal of the nation state, as a true believer putting the EU ahead of the country is the right and only thing to do....
The mind boggles...
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:20 pm

par13del wrote:
One cannot assume that they will put country above personal ambitions, after all, if one of the main theories behind the EU is the removal of the nation state, as a true believer putting the EU ahead of the country is the right and only thing to do....
The mind boggles...


I can see where you're getting at, but it's just not true.

The EU doesn't seek to remove the nation state, for once. And there are no EU fundamentalists like the ones you describe, not in any significant numbers, much less in the British civil service.

I think you are overstating the love of Europeans for the EU. People are not waving EU flags with tears in their eyes, they are not standing at home in front of the TV watching Juncker speak, with a trembling fist thinking of the glorious EU motherland, they are not going to EU rallies and teaching their kids ode to happiness on the recorder (which incidentally was the first song they taught my class to play, there was no EU at the time though).

Most people see the EU in a kind of meh-thing that is just there, but in any case is better than going in the world stage with the likes of the USA, China and Russia each on its own.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 7803
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:53 am

Oh the love of the EU in Europe is not in doubt, unfortunately, those in authority seem to have this fear of the masses, not sure why, the mantra seems to be that if anyone has a complaint about something they are against the EU.

As for those in the UK, both sides - leave and remain - are inventing as they go along versus accepting their reality and moving on.
I still don't understand what type of arrangement the EU wants them to propose when they will accept nothing other than what they currently offer and the UK side talking about special deals as if the EU will violate their integrity for the UK.
The UK leaving will not put the EU in any peril so................
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7894
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:34 am

par13del wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
And since you are the junior partner in pretty much any negotiation that counts, it will be unlikely that you get the same deal as the Elephant in the room, the EU, that is a big enough market to negotiate on eye level with everyone.

best regards
Thomas

So the EU is being benevolent in its dealings with the UK, I think not,


na, they are just being practical and offer the only solution that works with a hard Brexit, while maintaining no border between NI and RoI.

they are doing exactly what they claim the USA, India, China or any other nation who the UK approaches for trade are doing, which is to take advantage wherever possible, which is fine, it is the way the world works.


Yes, in a sense the do it even in the NI case and of course they do, since having the interests of EU countries as their prime objective sort of is the EUs Job, but this just expresses the inherent value of peace and stability for long term economic development for both sides. Having Northen Ireland in the Common market, but still in the UK isn´t exactly the best economic interests of the EU, since that would mean a boost for the NI economy, which is outside the EU. If you set up manufacturing in NI, you can source cheaper components from eastern EU countries, add enough value to make it a "Made in the UK" product an "export" to the UK without any tariff getting in the way and be more competitive on the global market.
Of course the UK government probably has zero interest in an economically strong NI, that usually triggers ideas of independence.

Unfortunately, those in the UK who are opposed to the leave, seem to think that the EU doing it to them is in UK's best interest


Well, since staying in the EU is in the UKs best interesst, aside of illusions of "controlling own borders" and "setting own standards" and other nonsense along those lines flying in the face of reality. Case an point, the NI/RoI border. The UK wants a border, but not where the border actually is.......

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10126
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:41 am

To me the main problem without a NI border is the possibility to import anything through the UK without conforming to EU regulations, duties etc.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:19 am

The problem for the UK is that the EU understands that the british government is tied by the ERG group and more by the Legatum Institute ideas and policies. And for the EU no deal is way better than a deal to please Shanker Singham and his gang that dream to build a fiscal paradise on EU shores.
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:14 pm

To add to my previous post I can't edit anymore : https://capx.co/the-brexit-blueprint-theresa-may-needs-to-follow/

With that, the Eu can easily predict the next moves from TM.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:15 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
The only solution is no Brexit.


That is not true, a soft brexit would work just as well. Problem is that just 20% or so, of those that voted in the referendum, want that vs. 30% that want a hard Brexit. Of course there is the 49% plurality that voted remain....


Indeed. And those who want hard brexit pretend that that was always what was intended with a yes to leave vote. And they tend to shout the loudest.


This was just released today.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/com ... iefing.pdf

I say released, it's utterly absurd it was blocked from being released for so long. Surprise surprise it indicates how the areas of the UK that voted for Brexit the most, will be affected the most. And guess what, it isn't the rich, it is the working class around the Middle and North of England. It details those sectors of the economy that will suffer the most as well.

It's nice to have some proper data for a change instead of uniformed nonsense.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2835
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:44 pm

Also Europe takes a hard line regarding the Irish border.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... ssion=true

From now onwards all talks start with the Irish border issue.
 
LTenEleven
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:58 pm

A bit more reality:

Euroclear, the financial clearing house, has confirmed it is shifting the residence of its holding company from the UK to Brussels due to Brexit.
https://twitter.com/grahambsi/status/971435824733618176
 
LTenEleven
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:16 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
This was just released today.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/com ... iefing.pdf

I say released, it's utterly absurd it was blocked from being released for so long. Surprise surprise it indicates how the areas of the UK that voted for Brexit the most, will be affected the most. And guess what, it isn't the rich, it is the working class around the Middle and North of England. It details those sectors of the economy that will suffer the most as well.

It's nice to have some proper data for a change instead of uniformed nonsense.


It is a fascinating document. Estimated GDP impact of the different scenarios:
EEA: -0.6% to -2.6%
FTA: -3.1% to -6.6%
WTO: -5% to - 10.3%

New trade deals could increase GDP by 0.2% to 0.7% (the US accounts for 0.1% to 0.3%). So much for "constrained trade" of being in the EU.
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 32

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos