NoTime
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Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:18 pm

Not that it'll change any minds around here, but...

...

Happily for President Trump, the pros agree with him. A recent survey of economists suggest it is President Trump, and not Obama, who should be taking a bow.

The Wall Street Journal asked 68 business, financial and academic economists who was responsible for the strengthening of the economy, and most “suggested Mr. Trump’s election deserves at least some credit” for the upturn.

A majority said the president had been “somewhat” or “strongly” positive for job creation, gross domestic product growth and the rising stock market.

...

Why would Trump rate higher than Obama with this group? Economists point to the upturn in business confidence that accompanied Trump’s election, and tie that to increasing business investment. Spending on capital goods accelerated sharply over the first three quarters of last year, growing at an annualized rate of 6.2 percent.

Such outlays will spur productivity gains and lead to wage hikes, creating a virtuous circle complete with rising consumer confidence and spending.


http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3689 ... or-economy
 
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casinterest
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:28 pm

This is an opinion piece based on poor comprehension. SOME credit from 68 people.

Hardly a large sample. seems like FAKE NEWS. Nothing unusual for Trump and his statistically and scientifically challenged supporters. It also ignored the 7 years of strong growth that Preceeded Trump and his attempts to bankrupt this country. Let's see what happens in 7 years as the dollar crashes and the deficit skyrockets from this tax plan written for the rich.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:47 pm

Nice try, but a few things stand here:

1. Read your URL...after the domain, comes the word that knocks this down: OPINION.
2. The disclaimer:
Liz Peek is a former partner of major bracket Wall Street firm Wertheim & Company. For 15 years, she has been a columnist for The Fiscal Times, Fox News, the New York Sun and numerous other organizations.

3. The misleading headline, later rectified in the body that said Mr Trump's election deserves SOME credit for the upturn. OK...so if it's some credit, what about the rest? Was the economy in freefall prior to November 8, 2016?
4. The Quinnipiac study she quotes contradicts her:
But 49 percent of voters say former President Barack Obama is more responsible for the state of the economy, while 40 percent say Trump is more responsible.


Of course the author will point at anything that makes the president look good. Just as a liberal columnist would do for a Democrat president. I love, however, how she brought up a Quinnipiac poll that confirms that Obama still deserves credit (and then attempts to discredit it as being biased...), in addition to revealing other facts such as Trump not being fit for office and how his policies (or lack thereof) are not making an impact in people's personal situations. If you have to disregard a poll for being too biased when it actually shows a healthy mix of voters, the problem isn't the poll. Facts aren't political; lies are.

I will agree that folks who have money riding on the stock market will no doubt say that Trump brought optimism and that's why the stock market is rocketing. And I agree with the sentiment. But how many people really benefit from a stock reaching record highs? I'm betting that West Virginian coalminer without a dollar to his name is ecstatic that Goldman Sachs and Boeing are at record highs. That will show those elites who's boss, right?

Besides the tax reform, which will not be felt until we file taxes next year, what other significant policy or piece of legislation can be responsible for growing the economy?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Flighty
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:26 pm

Economists were saying 2% was the new normal (at best) and 3% would never be achieved again. Larry Summers for example said that 3% could only be achieved by another massive government stimulus.

How many people benefit from stocks? The upper 40% or so. The others are paycheck-to-paycheck. Fortunately as businesses are more profitable, they will need to hire record numbers of legal workers. This will inevitably push wages up from the low levels where they are today.

Besides the tax reform, there was the assurance that no new, expensive regulations would be slowing business and employment down for the foreseeable future. So the businesses can invest more and hire more people now. I'm not a total zealot about business and I think regulation is often necessary. But business is also necessary to enable our way of life. Business is not optional.

I do not think corporate income taxes serve much of a purpose. They collect relatively little revenue and deter a great deal of business activity, as is now clear. In the future, the rate should probably be reduced again - if regular people like what they are seeing.
 
wingman
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:48 pm

Trump fans ignoring url's and posting opinion-based rubbish as fact in thread titles isn't a great way to start a work week. I would endeavor to always do my personal best to hide my illiteracy or at least camouflage my ignorance in public. But some Trump supporters just seem to revel in their lack of cognition. Yee haw podna!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:50 pm

Sure, if you are going to spend more and lower the taxes you will get economic growth, that isn't rocket science, the question is what will happen after that, perhaps Trump will be gone by then.....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:55 pm

So far inflation is low, and wage growth with it. Economists are applying old school formulas that don't work anymore.
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Dutchy
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:00 pm

Aesma wrote:
So far inflation is low, and wage growth with it. Economists are applying old school formulas that don't work anymore.


:checkmark: That's also part of the equation. And short-term gain will, in the end, hurt the economy. E.g. no investment in education will boost the economy because of lower taxes, but in the end, there are no schooled workers anymore. Yes, that is extreme, but it shows what I mean.
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VSMUT
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:11 pm

The Economist, a newspaper, suggests that the upturn in the US economy is linked more closely to lucky timing with a general upturn in the world economy, and not so much Trumps own policies. They also point out that fiscal stimulus in the form of tax cuts are the last thing an overheating economy needs.

They also conclude that he hasn't been a disaster, yet.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-s ... t-been-bad
 
jetero
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:14 pm

VSMUT wrote:
The Economist, a newspaper, suggests that the upturn in the US economy is linked more closely to lucky timing with a general upturn in the world economy, and not so much Trumps own policies. They also point out that fiscal stimulus in the form of tax cuts are the last thing an overheating economy needs.

They also conclude that he hasn't been a disaster, yet.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-s ... t-been-bad


“Not that that’ll (a non-biased editorial) change any minds around here.”

—NoTime
Last edited by jetero on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bagoldex
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:46 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
2. The disclaimer:
Liz Peek is a former partner of major bracket Wall Street firm Wertheim & Company. For 15 years, she has been a columnist for The Fiscal Times, Fox News, the New York Sun and numerous other organizations.



If Liz Peek had any real worth, insight and knowledge beyond being a token woman in finance and/or political stooge she probably would have found another banking job after Wertheim closed in 1994. According to her LinkedIn profile she studied business and managerial economics at Wellesley, two concentrations they are not even known to offer.

https://nypost.com/2009/04/22/poor-bail ... flaunt-my/

Now I did eight years in i-banking in New York and London and thoroughly enjoyed all of the accouterments and the prestige associated with my position but as for Lizzie, what a f*cking worthless c*nt.
 
LMP737
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:57 pm

NoTime wrote:
Not that it'll change any minds around here, but...


What was the economy doing when Obama took office and how was it when he left?
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sw733
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:31 pm

NoTime wrote:
Not that it'll change any minds around here, but...


Damn right it wont...bring me a good source and we'll talk.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
This is an opinion piece based on poor comprehension. SOME credit from 68 people.


I wonder how many of them have just bought themselves a million dollar+ tax cut....

casinterest wrote:
But how many people really benefit from a stock reaching record highs? I'm betting that West Virginian coalminer without a dollar to his name is ecstatic that Goldman Sachs and Boeing are at record highs. That will show those elites who's boss, right?


Most will be hurt, since stock rallies divert funds away from productivity improvement, which makes real income increase unsustainable and, in a competitive environment, requires cuts to correct.

That is how economic boom usually comes to an end.

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DocLightning
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:29 pm

Effect must follow cause, not vice-versa.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:40 am

casinterest wrote:
This is an opinion piece based on poor comprehension. SOME credit from 68 people.

Hardly a large sample. seems like FAKE NEWS. Nothing unusual for Trump and his statistically and scientifically challenged supporters. It also ignored the 7 years of strong growth that Preceeded Trump and his attempts to bankrupt this country. Let's see what happens in 7 years as the dollar crashes and the deficit skyrockets from this tax plan written for the rich.


The poll was from the WSJ. The commentary on it was of course "opinion". You can try to dismiss the "opinion" part all you want, but that doesn't change the poll results. For that you will have to attack the source--the WSJ. I can't get by the paywall and don't know what's in the poll. But I know with certainty that your criticism needs to be directed at the poll first.

You can subjectively say the last 7 years of growth was "strong". That's your right to believe so. But objectively the last 7 years was a disaster and one of the worst recoveries in American history. Your "opinion" on this "opinion" is, in my "opinion", not to be trusted.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Of course the author will point at anything that makes the president look good. Just as a liberal columnist would do for a Democrat president. I love, however, how she brought up a Quinnipiac poll that confirms that Obama still deserves credit (and then attempts to discredit it as being biased...), in addition to revealing other facts such as Trump not being fit for office and how his policies (or lack thereof) are not making an impact in people's personal situations. If you have to disregard a poll for being too biased when it actually shows a healthy mix of voters, the problem isn't the poll. Facts aren't political; lies are.

The reason to discredit the Quinnipiac poll is factual - they admittedly sampled a low percentage of Republicans. With a biased sample, their poll would be objectively flawed and not to be trusted.

If you can find an objective reason to discredit the WSJ poll that was the basis of this article, be our guest.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Besides the tax reform, which will not be felt until we file taxes next year, what other significant policy or piece of legislation can be responsible for growing the economy?


At my school, the economics program was correctly under the college of social & behavioral sciences. I bet many people think it's under a "business" banner, but that would not be most accurate. Economics is first and foremost a science on human behavior. That's the biggest reason why it's a challenging and imperfect science to study. We are not robots. Our behavior is far from 100% constant and predicable. It doesn't take a policy change to greatly influence human behavior. It only take the threat of one. Trump brought a new expectation and a new hope for the economy The expectation of different government policy and regulation encouraged positive economic behavior and directly led to an increase in economic activity. It's not surprising that all it took was a new voice and a new hope. We see in other ways, like in sports when a team makes a coaching change and suddenly plays better. What we've seen since Trump took over is an massive indictment against the economic policies of the Obama administration and the Democrat Party. What it tells us is that even if their policies work on paper, a highly debatable proposition, the effect on human behavior is so deeply negative that it results in a grim economic environment. There's no other way to explain the dramatic change.

Also, it's incorrect to say that the tax reform will not be felt until next year. It's already effecting behavior today and impacting thousands and thousands of people on a daily basis.

DocLightning wrote:
Effect must follow cause, not vice-versa.


Correct, and the first cause was on November 8th, 2016.
 
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:40 am

According to yesterday's Economist podcast, Trump gets the credit because he didn't wreck the economy as much as he would have because he didn't do as much as he said he would when he was on the campaign trail. We'd have to see what's going on at the end of this year to really see Trump's effects on the economy, IMO.
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Aesma
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:23 am

Yeah he promised to end free trade basically, stop importing chinese stuff etc., that would have done wonders to the US economy. But of course he didn't even try to do that.
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WarRI1
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:25 am

Fake News, Fake news :hissyfit: :hyper:
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casinterest
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 am

MSPNWA wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This is an opinion piece based on poor comprehension. SOME credit from 68 people.

Hardly a large sample. seems like FAKE NEWS. Nothing unusual for Trump and his statistically and scientifically challenged supporters. It also ignored the 7 years of strong growth that Preceeded Trump and his attempts to bankrupt this country. Let's see what happens in 7 years as the dollar crashes and the deficit skyrockets from this tax plan written for the rich.


The poll was from the WSJ. The commentary on it was of course "opinion". You can try to dismiss the "opinion" part all you want, but that doesn't change the poll results. For that you will have to attack the source--the WSJ. I can't get by the paywall and don't know what's in the poll. But I know with certainty that your criticism needs to be directed at the poll first.

You can subjectively say the last 7 years of growth was "strong". That's your right to believe so. But objectively the last 7 years was a disaster and one of the worst recoveries in American history. Your "opinion" on this "opinion" is, in my "opinion", not to be trusted..


If you say the last 7 years was a disaster. I can definitely say that Trump's fist year was a disaster. As he did nothing to bend the tide. He passed no law affecting 2017. So you are admitting with your last statement that Trump did nothing.
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tommy1808
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:46 am

Aesma wrote:
But of course he didn't even try to do that.


Well, China may have bribed him into leaving TPP, but they wouldn´t pay for cutting Chinese imports ...... for Trump you can basically go like "will anyone pay him for it", and if the answer is yes, he will do it.

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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:18 am

MSPNWA wrote:
It doesn't take a policy change to greatly influence human behavior. It only take the threat of one. Trump brought a new expectation and a new hope for the economy The expectation of different government policy and regulation encouraged positive economic behavior and directly led to an increase in economic activity. It's not surprising that all it took was a new voice and a new hope. We see in other ways, like in sports when a team makes a coaching change and suddenly plays better. What we've seen since Trump took over is an massive indictment against the economic policies of the Obama administration and the Democrat Party. What it tells us is that even if their policies work on paper, a highly debatable proposition, the effect on human behavior is so deeply negative that it results in a grim economic environment. There's no other way to explain the dramatic change.


I'd love to hear what you believe was wrong with the economic policies of the Obama administration and what the Trump's 'placebo effect' you describe has done to fix it...

The economy was doing great before Trump came along. The only tangible effet so far of his discourse and the tax reform he promoted (without understanding much of it, apparently), is a boosting effect to corporation's bottom line and associated soaring stock markets.

Save from a few and disproportionately low bonuses for some employees, there has been little effect to the average American working class Joe so far.

As far as I can see, the major problem with the american society and economy is not that businesses were not making money, as they were, or unemployment, as the US has one of the lowest unemployment rate of developed nations. The main issue is the increasing wealth gap between classes, which the current administration is doing absolutely nothing about, quite the contrary...
The gap is exacerbated by the extremely uneven access to healthcare and education, which feedbacks into making the problem even worse.
Trump supporters are always somewhat evasive when it comes to identifying the problems they are so angry about. They prefer broad generalizations which are the favorite bait of populists.

It would be great to hear from one of them what they think the problems were before Trump which pushed them to vote for him and why they think his actions (or lack thereof, apparently) are doing to solve them.
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Flighty
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 pm

"The economy was doing great before Trump came along..."

That reveals where you live. It was only doing great in about 5 states. Texas, northern California... Florida perhaps... Upper Midwest..

One thing that is going to convince both you and me that things are changing for the better is middle-class jobs that pay $100,000. No one can deny that 100k is a very solid middle class wage. That's going to be the expectation across many work areas soon. Already there was an article that 100k frequently occurs among construction workers. As law enforcement begins to hit construction crews and improve their legal worker compliance, those wages will continue to go up. But let's watch together if that happens. I'm less interested in the stock market than I am in middle class wages. Entry level jobs in many areas are going to hit $20/hr as well. Inflation may not be as big of a deal as we think, either. Instead, a strong economy and labor supply issues will be sufficient to power it. (These will be real wage gains, not meaningless inflation-related gains).

The overall global economy means nothing to the median voter, but middle class wages mean everything. The policy that improves those is the policy that elects presidents. Regardless of the global fallout. That all means nothing.
Last edited by Flighty on Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jetero
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:47 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
You can subjectively say the last 7 years of growth was "strong". That's your right to believe so. But objectively the last 7 years was a disaster and one of the worst recoveries in American history.


Oh good Lord. Why? It’s objective because that’s what you believe, Iowa? Find other examples of countries the size of the U.S. recovering from a financial crisis more quickly, Dunderhead.

(I see you’ve got Mango Mussolini’s language down ... just “objectively” (subjectively?) call something a “disaster” and it is.)

[quote=“MSPNWA”]If you can find an objective reason to discredit the WSJ poll that was the basis of this article, be our guest.[/quote]

Be “our” guest? Well that language is a bit creepy.

[quote=“MSPNWA”]Trump brought a new expectation and a new hope for the economy The expectation of different government policy and regulation encouraged positive economic behavior and directly led to an increase in economic activity. It's not surprising that all it took was a new voice and a new hope. We see in other ways, like in sports when a team makes a coaching change and suddenly plays better. What we've seen since Trump took over is an massive indictment against the economic policies of the Obama administration and the Democrat Party. What it tells us is that even if their policies work on paper, a highly debatable proposition, the effect on human behavior is so deeply negative that it results in a grim economic environment. There's no other way to explain the dramatic change.[/quote]

OK so you’re essentially saying that because 20% of the country are Dunderheads like yourself, disciples of Fox News, impervious to reason but a sponge for propaganda, all it took was for you to “feel better” for the economy to change overnight.

You know what? I agree. There’s no other way to explain this idiocy because nothing fundamental has changed, bro.

Sorry you wasted 8 years of your life crying in your Cheerios.

(Still selling mobile phones in a mall, BTW? Of course not. Since Trump became president probably own the mall. Bought it it with all those tax savings, I’m sure, and your newfound happy feelings.)
 
tommy1808
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:49 pm

jetero wrote:
OK so you’re essentially saying that because 20% of the country are Dunderheads like yourself, disciples of Fox News, impervious to reason but a sponge for propaganda, all it took was for you to “feel better” for the economy to change overnight.

You know what? I agree. There’s no other way to explain this idiocy because nothing fundamental has changed, bro.


He does have a point though. If a good chunk of.US citizens did in fact start spending more money, instead of saving it for the day of total collapse, bound to happen with a black Muslim fraud at the helm, of the economy, that will have a noticeable effect on the economy. If domestic consumption is increasing, I am pretty sure looking at who is consuming more would be fairly interesting.

Economy is much more psychology than hard facts driven. Crashes don't make money go away, they just make it circulate slower.

Best regards
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jetero
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:53 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
jetero wrote:
OK so you’re essentially saying that because 20% of the country are Dunderheads like yourself, disciples of Fox News, impervious to reason but a sponge for propaganda, all it took was for you to “feel better” for the economy to change overnight.

You know what? I agree. There’s no other way to explain this idiocy because nothing fundamental has changed, bro.


He does have a point though. If a good chunk of.US citizens did in fact start spending more money, instead of saving it for the day of total collapse, bound to happen with a black Muslim fraud at the helm, of the economy, that will have a noticeable effect on the economy. If domestic consumption is increasing, I am pretty sure looking at who is consuming more would be fairly interesting.

Economy is much more psychology than hard facts driven. Crashes don't make money go away, they just make it circulate slower.

Best regards
Thomas


Oh I don’t doubt his point. Like I said, it’s the only reason people who are similarly situated as they were a year ago suddenly feel like the sky is sh*tting roses.
 
Route66
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:19 pm

I have to give the first year to the previous administration, it takes a long time to steer a big ship. The effects of business and consumer confidence shouldn't be understated however.
 
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
You can subjectively say the last 7 years of growth was "strong". That's your right to believe so. But objectively the last 7 years was a disaster and one of the worst recoveries in American history.


Holy shit this is stupid.
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BawliBooch
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:59 am

Every crazy tinpot leader needs a "nationalist" media & PR machinery to hardsell his "achievements", pass off the hard work of his predecessor as his own and claim achievements that do not exist. The tricks they use are the same - selectively quote /misquote reputed experts on topic to make a point. Or fudge figures to the same effect.

We saw it in North Korea. We saw it in Turkey. We saw it in India.

America, it seems, is getting there. We have Republic. You guys have Fox News & infowars.
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casinterest
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:19 pm

Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:12 pm

casinterest wrote:


Honest question for all of y'all...can anyone tell me what 49 +56 equals? There is a reason that people discount the validity of polls...105% reported, just like Hillary winning the election in a landslide.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:31 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Honest question for all of y'all...can anyone tell me what 49 +56 equals? There is a reason that people discount the validity of polls...105% reported, just like Hillary winning the election in a landslide.



Honest question for you.
Do you have enough of an attention span to read the article to understand the math? Or are you stuck to twitter limited header length?

Public More Generous to Obama Than Trump in Giving Credit for Economic Gains
How much credit do you give Donald Trump/Barack Obama for (the past year's economic improvements) -- a great deal, a moderate amount, not much or none at all?
______________Trump___________ Obama
_________________% _____________%
A great dea________22___________ 24
Moderate amount___27_____________32
TOTAL_CREDIT___ 49_____________56

Not much _________26 _____________22
None at all________24___________ 19
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:42 pm

to be honest, i am worried about the economy, Las Vegas is struggling, i know this because i hire people, and when i hire them of late. I have noticed a big difference. Sometimes they cry, one gal i recently hired lost her job, home and was struggling to keep her phone on as well as make her car payment. She had run out of unemployment. It's starting to remind me of 2006. Anyway, we had a tragic mass shooting that has scared people away from the Strip. We are not getting the visitors we normally do. People like me who depend on visitors, it's a little scary. I hope it recovers, however bookings are way down even though we dropped our prices. I have to wonder what is going on. I know businesses are happy, with Trump tax changes, Wall Street gone crazy, but that really doesn't help the middle class. Since we all live off each other, those to feel the effect of a bad economy coming is always those living on the edge, small businesses and the middle class. That is what i'm noticing profits shrinking. Hopefully it's just Las Vegas mass shooting and the rest of the U.S. is doing better. I give credit to Obama for turning things around. It would be nice if Trump could speed up the recovery. However, i have zero confidence in him at this point.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:49 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
to be honest, i am worried about the economy, Las Vegas is struggling, i know this because i hire people, and when i hire them of late. I have noticed a big difference. Sometimes they cry, one gal i recently hired lost her job, home and was struggling to keep her phone on as well as make her car payment. She had run out of unemployment. It's starting to remind me of 2006. Anyway, we had a tragic mass shooting that has scared people away from the Strip. We are not getting the visitors we normally do. People like me who depend on visitors, it's a little scary. I hope it recovers, however bookings are way down even though we dropped our prices. I have to wonder what is going on. I know businesses are happy, with Trump tax changes, Wall Street gone crazy, but that really doesn't help the middle class. Since we all live off each other, those to feel the effect of a bad economy coming is always those living on the edge, small businesses and the middle class. That is what i'm noticing profits shrinking. Hopefully it's just Las Vegas mass shooting and the rest of the U.S. is doing better. I give credit to Obama for turning things around. It would be nice if Trump could speed up the recovery. However, i have zero confidence in him at this point.


According the following, Las Vegas is not doing as well as the rest of the US, but it is still improving. I think the shooting is going to have some ripples for awhile ,but wait for the spring to see that effect.

https://www.google.com/search?q=las+veg ... e&ie=UTF-8


I think Vegas is suffering a bit due to the proliferation of gambling outside of Nevada as well. Much easier to go to your local reservation than fly across country.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:20 pm

Flighty wrote:
One thing that is going to convince both you and me that things are changing for the better is middle-class jobs that pay $100,000.


I think that will convince these people's employers to buy robots.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
jetero
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:38 pm

Aesma wrote:
Flighty wrote:
One thing that is going to convince both you and me that things are changing for the better is middle-class jobs that pay $100,000.


I think that will convince these people's employers to buy robots.


Or, if not, lead to massive inflation, but never you mind, Flighty because at least people'll be making 6 figures.

What's the theme song of this administration again? (Strangely, it was played yesterday at Drumpf's Pittsburgh rally where it seemed like the sky was sh*tting rainbows.) "You can't always get what you want."

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speedbored
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:47 pm

Any article that starts with "Economists agree" has got to be suspect :)
 
bhill
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:48 pm

Riight....the economy, like the Government, has inertia...it is gonna do what it does over time. Bubbles take time to grow....but they sure pop quick. Kinda like the DMZ in Korea...Mother Nature left to it's own devices has made it one of the amazing places for a comeback...just get the human meddling out of the way. Also, most investors are not fickle, they invest for the long term,,,,MUCH longer than 4 years....
Carpe Pices
 
seb146
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:52 pm

And WHEN the economy crashes because of poor REPUBLICAN management, I guess it will be Hillary and Obama's fault....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:08 pm

Murphy is an optimist
 
Route66
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:39 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I have to wonder what is going on. I know businesses are happy, with Trump tax changes, Wall Street gone crazy, but that really doesn't help the middle class.


Of course it does. Look at the tech sector. After the tax cuts, Apple announced it will repatriate that overseas money in the form of 20,000 new jobs and pay taxes on it. Those will be the same people who might then have enough discretionary income for a weekend in Vegas. There have been several lesser job-growth announcements as well by both foreign and domestic companies.

Until now, it was Obama's, it now belongs to Trump.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:06 am

Route66 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I have to wonder what is going on. I know businesses are happy, with Trump tax changes, Wall Street gone crazy, but that really doesn't help the middle class.


Of course it does. Look at the tech sector. After the tax cuts, Apple announced it will repatriate that overseas money in the form of 20,000 new jobs and pay taxes on it. Those will be the same people who might then have enough discretionary income for a weekend in Vegas. There have been several lesser job-growth announcements as well by both foreign and domestic companies.

Until now, it was Obama's, it now belongs to Trump.


Where will those twenty K jobs be going? That is the million dollar question. Is that written into the tax code? How much stock will be bought back with the money? A shitload if past practice is a lesson.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:30 am

I am not going to dog Obummer so much for the economy. But he did make a grave mistake in Iraq ( Bush made the biggest mistake) Obama pulling out of Iraq helped form ISIS in my opinion not to mention he like most every other democratic president has left our military in a weakened state Jimmy Carter was the worst on that front. There is a lot I hate about Trump but I am glad he is addressing some things that Obama lacked. If anything I am glad he is appointing supreme court justices that are not liberals. Liberals are WAY too weak on crime and I am not talking about pot smokers which I have no problem with.
 
seb146
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:23 am

stratosphere wrote:
I am not going to dog Obummer so much for the economy. But he did make a grave mistake in Iraq ( Bush made the biggest mistake) Obama pulling out of Iraq helped form ISIS in my opinion not to mention he like most every other democratic president has left our military in a weakened state Jimmy Carter was the worst on that front. There is a lot I hate about Trump but I am glad he is addressing some things that Obama lacked. If anything I am glad he is appointing supreme court justices that are not liberals. Liberals are WAY too weak on crime and I am not talking about pot smokers which I have no problem with.


ISIS had already formed under Bush while the United States was still in Iraq. Obama simply stuck to the timeline agreed to by Bush and the Muslim government of Iraq.

Has nothing to do with the 75 straight months of job growth under Obama. Apple could have used their off shore money to hire people. But we don't want the Black president to be too successful.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
stratosphere
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:30 am

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
I am not going to dog Obummer so much for the economy. But he did make a grave mistake in Iraq ( Bush made the biggest mistake) Obama pulling out of Iraq helped form ISIS in my opinion not to mention he like most every other democratic president has left our military in a weakened state Jimmy Carter was the worst on that front. There is a lot I hate about Trump but I am glad he is addressing some things that Obama lacked. If anything I am glad he is appointing supreme court justices that are not liberals. Liberals are WAY too weak on crime and I am not talking about pot smokers which I have no problem with.


ISIS had already formed under Bush while the United States was still in Iraq. Obama simply stuck to the timeline agreed to by Bush and the Muslim government of Iraq.

Has nothing to do with the 75 straight months of job growth under Obama. Apple could have used their off shore money to hire people. But we don't want the Black president to be too successful.....


Typical lib throw the race card out. The president who hurt me the most was Bush 2 and I will be the first to call him out on it. Obama was not the be all end all of presidents he in my opinion set back race relations he most certainly was not the "uniter" of the races that everyone said he would be. But I will give him credit for some things he wasn't the worst the president I have lived under but he wasn't the best either.
 
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:58 am

stratosphere wrote:
The president who hurt me the most was Bush 2.


Just wait for Trumpy, strato!!!!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:41 pm

Route66 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I have to wonder what is going on. I know businesses are happy, with Trump tax changes, Wall Street gone crazy, but that really doesn't help the middle class.


Of course it does. Look at the tech sector. After the tax cuts, Apple announced it will repatriate that overseas money in the form of 20,000 new jobs and pay taxes on it. Those will be the same people who might then have enough discretionary income for a weekend in Vegas. There have been several lesser job-growth announcements as well by both foreign and domestic companies.

Until now, it was Obama's, it now belongs to Trump.


Apple did good PR. The investments and jobs were already planned. Furthermore, 20 000 jobs for hundreds of billions of dollars, that's massively expensive jobs ! Or more likely Apple will buy back shares, jump dividends, and stock owners will get the lion's share of that money. In fact it's not even speculation, it's a given.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
727LOVER
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:19 pm

Stock market at an all-time high....unemployment is very low...why is he @ 35%?


Obama was handed a turd....Trump was handed a piece of gold
Last edited by 727LOVER on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:27 pm

Route66 wrote:
Of course it does. Look at the tech sector. After the tax cuts, Apple announced it will repatriate that overseas money in the form of 20,000 new jobs and pay taxes on it.


You're kidding, right?

Apple gets a tax break worth dozens of Billions of dollars, and they promise 20,000 jobs, which they were probably create anyway?

The lost income to the government and the associated massive increase in debt, which is going to have to be borne by all americans, but which will impact the poorer classes more, is worth 20,000 jobs which will end up being given to highly educated people who would have had no trouble finding a job in the first place, or even immigrants if they don't find enough qualified people locally?

In the meantime, they'll go ahead with massive share buy-backs and massive dividend payouts to shareholders, none of which will help bridge the wealth gap and social divide which led to people electing such an idiot out of despair in the first place.

This is just another gift from to rich to themselves, with absolutely no consequence to those who are being left behind by the current economic system.

Of course, in the meantime, Donald McScrooge and friends are doing precious little to fight the real looming disasters which will affect the working classes in the next couple of decades, namely automation and the digitalisation of commerce and services.
Do you know, for instance, the effect that the upcoming automation of vehicles will have on jobs in the transportation industry?
Those self-driving cars and trucks that Apple itself, among others, are developing will be the cause of the loss of millions of jobs in the near to medium future.
Not that I advocate bridling technological progress, on the contrary, but I'd like to see a government which would proactively work towards mitigating the nefarious effects of it towards the working class by, for instance, funding training programs for people with low education and no specialized skills...

It's funny how all those who decry immigrants as the root of all their problems and consequently vote for racist morons who only seek to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else conveniently forget that automation is the single biggest cause of job loss in the US. And it's mostly affecting one social category.
The very fact that the US boasts a record low unemployment rate yet still suffers from such a massive class divide and a proliferation of the working-poor class is a glaring symptom that something is very wrong with the system. Donny T and his clique are doing everything they can to aggravate that problem.
And that's just one example.

But falling for feel-good slogans and satisfying one's ignorance-induced anger through simplistic and myopic analysis of a complex environment is much easier than looking at the facts, figures and applying logic and pragmatism to resolve an issue, right?

Basal emotions before thoughtful and composed debate seems to be a trademark of the Trump-loving hordes.

Ignorance will always be the greatest enemy of democracy and freedom.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:27 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Typical lib throw the race card out. The president who hurt me the most was Bush 2 and I will be the first to call him out on it. Obama was not the be all end all of presidents he in my opinion set back race relations he most certainly was not the "uniter" of the races that everyone said he would be. But I will give him credit for some things he wasn't the worst the president I have lived under but he wasn't the best either.


L A U G H A B L E

....because in my Goodbye Obama thread

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1353195&p=19307195&hilit=obama#p19307195


....you were the only one.....THE ONLY ONE with negative,derisive comments....not even anything constructive....don't let the door hit your ass crap.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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