Redd
Topic Author
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:28 pm

Paternity fraud is when a mother names a man as the biological father of a child on a legal birth certificate while knowing or at least suspecting the he is not. I am a victim of paternity fraud.

Some quick background, I spent the past 3+ years with a woman after she had become pregnant with what I assumed (and was told by her) was my child. We had separated in September in 2017 and I took a flat fairly close by so I could have regular access to my now 2.5 year old daughter, who is not only the most important person in my life but the center of my universe. After the break-up we enjoyed about as good of a relationship as I could have thought possible, I regularly took my daughter's mother out with us (me and my daughter) on day trips, dinners, meetings with other parents as the mother isn't the working type,doesn't really have friends of her own and is always out of money (except for what she receives from me as alimony and her mother's financial support.)

I'll skip all of my opinions on the relationship, blame etc,. as my aim is to paint an objective picture.

So to the point, 4 weeks before Christmas I informed her that I planned on leaving for a 2 week holiday and plan on being gone for Christmas. I also asked for her approval as we had worked out among ourselves that we had equal custody, and wanted to make sure that she had no objections taking care of our daughter for the 2 weeks without my help. Even though our daughter lives with her mother as I work 50+ hours per week, and the mother doesn't work so it functions better this way for obvious reasons. The day before I left, the mother was angry as hell and didn't give any reason for it. I assumed it was because I was going on holiday and didn't give it much thought. She's an emotionally ever changing type. Obviously I wanted to have contact with my daughter when I was away so I planned to video chat with her daily if possible but after 4 days the mother cut off all contact. I made it a point to try to make contact daily even though I had the feeling she was trying to punish me in some way for going on holiday.

The day I got back to Poland I received an email from her informing me that she'd been lying to me since she'd become pregnant, she's known since the beginning that I am not the biological father and she wants me to cut all ties with my daughter. Her knowing full well how important my daughter is to me. So if she's telling the truth, then more than 3 years of my life have been a total lie. If she's not I'm still left with no access to my daughter, not even to take her to a clinic to get a DNA test until I go through the courts which can potentially take years in this country. Especially considering that we'd never married.

Just to clarify, whether my daughter is mine biologically or she's not, I still want to raise her the way I've been raising her for the past 2.5 years. I can't just erase the time since she's been born, my feelings or my needs as a father to have her around. Being a life long supporter of feminism and equal rights I've found out that no equal rights exist for men, not in family law, not in crisis prevention. I cannot even begin to describe what I'm going through emotionally, how hard it is to get up ever day and face the world. How difficult it is not to turn to alcohol, I've even given away my wine collection for fear of alcohol abuse becoming a problem in my life.

Statistics and estimates put paternity fraud between 9-30% depending on where you live. In Poland it is estimated that 1 in 8 fathers are raising someone else's child, in the USA the estimate is 1 in 12, it's an epidemic of paternity fraud. This pretty much shows us that we all have at least one friend or know at least one person who is acting as the father of not their own child. The social implications of this are staggering, for a loving father finding out that their beloved child is not theirs and losing access to them is the worst psychological damage a man can go through short of losing their child. A woman in a case like this is able to turn a mans life into a game, a joke for her own gain, whether it be financial or otherwise. Women face NO criminal repercussions for literally ruining a man's life and taking years away from it, not to mention committing fraud.

Just think about all of the missed opportunities for the father to move on, be happy, have his own kids, move cities, or countries for professional opportunities, dedicate finances towards hobbies & passions. Often men stay in unhappy relationships for many more years than I had out of a sense of responsibility which they never should have had and are left with love for children which can legally be taken away from them on the whim of the mother.

Lying on any sort of official government documentation is considered fraud in every western world country and fraud as we all know is a criminal offence. Although one can go to jail for committing fraud, women face no consequences for fraudulently stating that a man is a child's father falsely. Women also don't have any fear of committing such an act as there are no consequences for doing so. There are also implications of poor mental health in a woman who is able to pull such a stunt (as a sane mind would do no such thing), and still the woman in the majority of cases like this is able to get sole custody of the child.

FATHERS PLEASE GET DNA TESTS DONE EARLY ON. They can even be done while the woman is pregnant, they are not cheap but it's worth knowing whether the child you are about to raise is yours and the woman you are to raise your child with is worth your time or not.

There is no precedent anywhere to punish woman for committing paternity fraud so it is up to us men to protect ourselves. 75% of suicides are committed by men and we don't have a good support structure out there to look out for our mental health, many men have taken their own lives in similar situations to mine and for the first time in my life I know what it's like to consider it. Don't let yourself be fooled guys, protect yourselves and get the DNA tests done. If you think it can't or hasn't happened to you it's still worth getting the paternity tests done.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5991
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:55 pm

I feel your story. Good luck my friend, hopefully, it will turn out fine and you will be able to raise your daughter - no matter whom is the biological father - the way you want.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8093
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:16 pm

Redd wrote:
FATHERS PLEASE GET DNA TESTS DONE EARLY ON


Not early on, make it a condition before getting excited and happy, before signing anything whatsoever. I get that out of the way before the first night together.
In some countries it is illegal to get a DNA test without the mothers consent.

They can even be done while the woman is pregnant, they are not cheap but it's worth knowing whether the child you are about to raise is yours and the woman you are to raise your child with is worth your time or not.


Ate you sure it can't wait until the child is born?

There is no precedent anywhere to punish woman for committing paternity fraud so it is up to us men to protect ourselves.


It's the only legal quarter million+ heist we have.

Don't let yourself be fooled guys, protect yourselves and get the DNA tests done. If you think it can't or hasn't happened to you it's still worth getting the paternity tests done.


And condoms, condoms, condoms.... being careful is a long term investment, financially and emotionally.

Paternity fraud is really the one area where men have little to no rights, one other being divorced dad's rights when it comes to custody, which is still highly stacked against men in most if not all countries.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:42 pm

What are you prognostics for legally adopting the girl? You make no indication of who the biological father of the child is and whether or not he is involved in the girl's life in any way. Surely if he isn't, and you have been raising her her entire life, there has to be a case for you to legally adopt her as your own. Or is that not possible/realistic since you weren't married to the mother?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 6540
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:57 pm

Redd,
If you feel this daughter is truly yours, or you truly do care after raising her, and you want to be a part of her life, I have to say you should go through the courts. It might be long odds, but you should still try. At some point it might matter, if this woman is unable to make a go of it on her own. But going through the courts may also give you the peace of mind in knowing you are trying against difficult odds.


Good luck, and hopefully you find someone in the future that you can marry and start a family with,
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Redd
Topic Author
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:02 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
What are you prognostics for legally adopting the girl? You make no indication of who the biological father of the child is and whether or not he is involved in the girl's life in any way. Surely if he isn't, and you have been raising her her entire life, there has to be a case for you to legally adopt her as your own. Or is that not possible/realistic since you weren't married to the mother?


I can't say for certain what my prospects are as I'm meeting my lawyer this coming Wednesday for the first time. I don't know who the biological father is and I still have hope that I am and that this is some strange action on the part of the mother. Most likely I'm not and in this country from what I've managed to research so far it does not seem like a possibility. There have been many cases with men in my position who are banned from seeing the child they raised and still have to pay alimony to the mother, even though the child is not theirs. It defies belief but apparently there are similar cases in the USA.

BTW thanks Dutchy & Casinterest
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:05 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
What are you prognostics for legally adopting the girl? You make no indication of who the biological father of the child is and whether or not he is involved in the girl's life in any way. Surely if he isn't, and you have been raising her her entire life, there has to be a case for you to legally adopt her as your own. Or is that not possible/realistic since you weren't married to the mother?


In at least two cases I can think of, the opposite situation has been affirmed in court - a man who was cuckolded by his wife into unknowingly raising another mans children cannot drop fiscal and parental responsibilities several years down the line after discovering the truth. The two cases I recall were in the US and the UK.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2017
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:20 am

Moo,

Yes, that is the case in the US. In fact, there are several states where a known Step Child can be factored into support calculations. In truth, I'm ok with this. There isn't much in Family Court matters I haven't seen, and although it's patently unfair, I will never feel bad about some grown man having a few extra problems if it keeps a kid from starving. Having that been said...


To the OP, I know you were trying to be objective, but that post does come across as a little self congratulatory and angry at the same time. You need to know that is NOT the way to proceed in a court situation. If your feelings aren't strictly goal oriented, they're going to gum you up.

I've dealt with a similar situation not so long ago, and what solved it was a willingness to fight dirty, and hard. I had to make a conscious decision to be able to look myself in the mirror some mornings as say "I'm going to be the bad guy today. And I'm ok with that."

Going after public opinion and trying show that you're a good dad won't hurt. But won't help worth a damn either. You need to find a way to put that woman in her back feet. Don't waste you or your attorney's time. When you go to that appointment, you need to start looking for things you can leverage and go right from there. If she's the sort of peasant you say she is, that shouldn't be hard.

My advice isn't friendly, but nice guys never win these things. Sorry about your luck.
Much like a GE90, I'm a huge fan of Big Twins...
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 3242
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:36 am

Redd wrote:
The day I got back to Poland I received an email from her informing me that she'd been lying to me since she'd become pregnant, she's known since the beginning that I am not the biological father and she wants me to cut all ties with my daughter.


Surely this piece of evidence is quite important and will help your case a lot? Very thoughtful of her to confess she was lying in writing, rather than over the phone (where it would become a "he said"/"she said" kind of situation and she might be able to claim in court that she didn't know that the baby was not yours).

tommy1808 wrote:
And condoms, condoms, condoms.... being careful is a long term investment, financially and emotionally.

So true!
Most recent aircraft flown: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, 717 VH-YQW, 737-600 LN-RPA, 737-700 OY-JTY, 737-800 LN-NGA, 767-300 ZK-NCI, 777-300 ZK-OKN, 787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10195
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:44 pm

If the daughter is legally yours (your name on the birth certificate or equivalent) then you have a good case. After all if you're not the biological father, it was unknown to you, on the other hand the mother knew all along there was a possibility, so the "fault" is entirely on her. Moreover laws are made "against" the father, favoring the child and the family as a unit, so as long as you want the child it helps you, it's getting out of the situation that is more problematic. Finally since you seem to be providing for both mother and child and having done so for years, again that goes for you.

Withholding access to your daughter is the wrong move on her part and will weaken whatever case she thinks she has.

I have been thinking about such subjects for a long time, a girlfriend of mine got pregnant when I was a teen, it was not an ideal situation to say the least (my family could have provided, though), but I was still fairly excited about it. There was a strong possibility I was not the father as the girl was pretty wild, but at the time I didn't think like that. In the end she miscarried, or maybe aborted, I'm not sure. In the latter case I had no say of course, and that's when I started thinking about "father's rights".

My conclusion is that there is no way to justify forcing a woman going through a pregnancy, so in return there should be no way to force a man to raise a child he didn't want. If that means signing paperwork before any "action", I'm for that, we're going there anyway.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8093
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:26 pm

Aesma wrote:
My conclusion is that there is no way to justify forcing a woman going through a pregnancy, so in return there should be no way to force a man to raise a child he didn't want. If that means signing paperwork before any "action", I'm for that, we're going there anyway.


Well, no one can force you to raise a child. You can only be forced to contribute financially. No before action agreement can be made regarding that, because neither mother nor father have the power to sign the child's rights away, and that is a sound principle.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10195
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:59 pm

His rights regarding what ? Having a father is a right ? In France the mother can give away the child at birth, giving away all her obligations in the process. The father, not so.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8093
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Aesma wrote:
His rights regarding what ?


Financial support until being able to support itself.

Having a father is a right ?


Everybody has a father, knowing who the father is, is.in deed the child's right. Here kids can sue their mothers to name the father, and they usually win.

In France the mother can give away the child at birth, giving away all her obligations in the process. The father, not so.


As long as the father can do the same when the mother left him leaving the child behind, that is just a function of women being in physical possession of the child and with the child at time of birth. If fathers can not do that under those circumstances, that needs addressing.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
johns624
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:54 pm

I'm confused by the whole "never married" but "paying alimony" thing...
 
Redd
Topic Author
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:27 am

johns624 wrote:
I'm confused by the whole "never married" but "paying alimony" thing...


I thought alimony meant child support.... So I mean't child support.
 
apodino
Posts: 3274
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:52 pm

This thread raises an interesting point. I have always believed that a child has the right to know who his or her biological parents are, and that the biological parents should be reflected on the birth certificate. If a woman puts a different father on the birth certificate than the biological father, in my opinion this is not only lying to a child about his/her parents, but also perjury by lying on a government application. DNA testing may be a bit invasive, but if we want this than it is imperative. I think it is in the child's interest long term, and you eliminate a lot of legal problems going forward as other things can be dealt with in other legal ways.

The other complication in this is now that Same Sex Marriage is legal, there have been lawsuits filed where married lesbian couples want both women as the two parents on the birth certificate. I understand why they want this, and I think there needs to be an accommodation in the law to address this issues. However, the fact remains that every person on this planet has a biological father, and a biological mother. A birth certificate should reflect both those people in my opinion. But in many cases, such as the above same sex marriage, and possibly in donor sperm or surrogacy, where the biological parents listed may not be the intended legal parents of the child after birth. The law needs to catch up with this somehow, and its up to the legislatures to do so, and unfortunately it has only been addressed by the courts so far, which in my opinion is not in the long term benefit of anyone.
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:06 pm

apodino wrote:
The other complication in this is now that Same Sex Marriage is legal, there have been lawsuits filed where married lesbian couples want both women as the two parents on the birth certificate. I understand why they want this, and I think there needs to be an accommodation in the law to address this issues. However, the fact remains that every person on this planet has a biological father, and a biological mother. A birth certificate should reflect both those people in my opinion. But in many cases, such as the above same sex marriage, and possibly in donor sperm or surrogacy, where the biological parents listed may not be the intended legal parents of the child after birth. The law needs to catch up with this somehow, and its up to the legislatures to do so, and unfortunately it has only been addressed by the courts so far, which in my opinion is not in the long term benefit of anyone.


The future I would like to see going forward is a future where there is much less emphasis on who is the DNA parent of the child and more on who is "parenting" the child. It's tricky to legislate (I don't know how I could phrase a law that gives proper bias towards adoptive parents), so I don't know how best to accomplish this. Homosexual couples, now that their marriages are legal in the entire US, need more guidance and support on paternal rights. Also, I'm not too keen on divorce law language and if there is much gender bias built into the wording of them, but if so, those will need to be updated to reflect proper procedure for if/when a homosexual couple gets divorced.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
apodino
Posts: 3274
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Paternity Fraud & Lack of Men's Rights

Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:56 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
apodino wrote:
The other complication in this is now that Same Sex Marriage is legal, there have been lawsuits filed where married lesbian couples want both women as the two parents on the birth certificate. I understand why they want this, and I think there needs to be an accommodation in the law to address this issues. However, the fact remains that every person on this planet has a biological father, and a biological mother. A birth certificate should reflect both those people in my opinion. But in many cases, such as the above same sex marriage, and possibly in donor sperm or surrogacy, where the biological parents listed may not be the intended legal parents of the child after birth. The law needs to catch up with this somehow, and its up to the legislatures to do so, and unfortunately it has only been addressed by the courts so far, which in my opinion is not in the long term benefit of anyone.


The future I would like to see going forward is a future where there is much less emphasis on who is the DNA parent of the child and more on who is "parenting" the child. It's tricky to legislate (I don't know how I could phrase a law that gives proper bias towards adoptive parents), so I don't know how best to accomplish this. Homosexual couples, now that their marriages are legal in the entire US, need more guidance and support on paternal rights. Also, I'm not too keen on divorce law language and if there is much gender bias built into the wording of them, but if so, those will need to be updated to reflect proper procedure for if/when a homosexual couple gets divorced.


As someone who is adopting, I agree with everything you said. The one issue I can see this raising is because many health problems are hereditary, and without knowing what your biological parents went through healthwise, it could make it trickier down the road to tackle specific health issues. Maybe DocLightning can weigh in here.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jetero, ltbewr, NIKV69, WarRI1 and 27 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos