MSPbrandon
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Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:19 am

Republican Gov. Phil Scoot promises to sign the bill into law.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-verm ... SKBN1EZ2KS

Take that Sessions! :rotfl:
 
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Revelation
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:59 pm

Seems my lame old NH will be surrounded by legal states: VT, MA, ME.

TFA says:

New Hampshire’s House of Representatives on Tuesday passed a similar bill to legalize recreational marijuana use. That state’s governor, Republican Chris Sununu, has said he opposes legalization.

Seems destined to go "up in smoke", sigh.

Not that it matters to me. Haven't partaken in a very long time, and have no plans to change.
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It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
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LittleFokker
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:34 pm

This makes 8 states with full marijuana legalization and 29 states with at least medicinal marijuana. At the pace legalized marijuana is being accepted, I wouldn't be surprised if it's legal in some form in all states within 10 years (I think even the Bible Belt will come around when they see the results from the other states). Then Sessions won't have much of a leg to stand on.

Which brings up the great philosophical question: if something in all 50 states is legalized, but federal law prohibits it, does federal law still matter and apply?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:31 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
This makes 8 states with full marijuana legalization and 29 states with at least medicinal marijuana. At the pace legalized marijuana is being accepted, I wouldn't be surprised if it's legal in some form in all states within 10 years (I think even the Bible Belt will come around when they see the results from the other states). Then Sessions won't have much of a leg to stand on.

Which brings up the great philosophical question: if something in all 50 states is legalized, but federal law prohibits it, does federal law still matter and apply?


9 if you include DC.

If it's legal in all 50 states, then i don't think there is much the Government can do. What are they going do?, arrest all of us? I doubt it.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:31 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Which brings up the great philosophical question: if something in all 50 states is legalized, but federal law prohibits it, does federal law still matter and apply?


It isn't a philosophical question. Federal law is supreme to state law. However, on a practical level the DEA lacks the resources to arrest something like 40% of the population and also the political will to continue prohibition is rapidly dwindling. I predict that within ten years, cannabis will be quietly legalized in some form, probably as a rider on a budget bill.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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LittleFokker
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:55 pm

DocLightning wrote:
It isn't a philosophical question. Federal law is supreme to state law.


I'm not sure the answer is that simple. Federal law does trump state law, but I believe that's only in cases where state law conflicts with other state law or federal law. However, if all 50 states are in agreement on an issue, and federal law hasn't been eliminated - is that enough to overturn federal law? I'd love to hear what the Supreme Court has to say on it, but I highly doubt there's any issue where standing is sufficient to bring to that court (much less any issue where all 50 states are in unanimous agreement on that federal law disagrees with).

DocLightning wrote:
However, on a practical level the DEA lacks the resources to arrest something like 40% of the population and also the political will to continue prohibition is rapidly dwindling. I predict that within ten years, cannabis will be quietly legalized in some form, probably as a rider on a budget bill.


Perhaps, but as A.G. Keebler McElfyface who doesn't give a shit about public polling or state's rights unless it mirrors his own interests runs the show, the battle will continue.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
apodino
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 pm

Sessions is wrong on this one. In what is supposed to be a democratic society, after voters in many states democratically said we want this, for Sessions to come in and say no spits in the face of these voters. Its another case of Washington thinking it knows better than the voters. Sadly this happens too often.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:30 am

apodino wrote:
Sessions is wrong on this one. In what is supposed to be a democratic society, after voters in many states democratically said we want this, for Sessions to come in and say no spits in the face of these voters. Its another case of Washington thinking it knows better than the voters. Sadly this happens too often.

Sessions maneuver is in my opinion just to give the against-pot conservatives a bone. I don't think he or his state deputies have any real intent to pursue something the public has approve (but I do think there will some "for show" prosecutions). So in states where it is not OK it plays fine, no change, and in states where it has been made legal (in whatever form) the state AG won't pursue unless something egregious pops up ("leakage" out of the state, poorly structured laws or regulations) and for those in the state that dislike what has occurred it is something of a promise to go after those damn hippie bastards! ;-) Even if nothing happens.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
apodino
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:04 am

Tugger wrote:
apodino wrote:
Sessions is wrong on this one. In what is supposed to be a democratic society, after voters in many states democratically said we want this, for Sessions to come in and say no spits in the face of these voters. Its another case of Washington thinking it knows better than the voters. Sadly this happens too often.

Sessions maneuver is in my opinion just to give the against-pot conservatives a bone. I don't think he or his state deputies have any real intent to pursue something the public has approve (but I do think there will some "for show" prosecutions). So in states where it is not OK it plays fine, no change, and in states where it has been made legal (in whatever form) the state AG won't pursue unless something egregious pops up ("leakage" out of the state, poorly structured laws or regulations) and for those in the state that dislike what has occurred it is something of a promise to go after those damn hippie bastards! ;-) Even if nothing happens.

Tugg

There really aren't many anti pot conservatives left either as I think the general option of most right leaning individuals these days is just let people be. And a lot of the tobacco farmers in the future are going to be needing another way to make money. This could be the way. Most of these farmers are in red leaning areas.
 
LMP737
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:13 am

DocLightning wrote:
[
It isn't a philosophical question. Federal law is supreme to state law. However, on a practical level the DEA lacks the resources to arrest something like 40% of the population and also the political will to continue prohibition is rapidly dwindling. I predict that within ten years, cannabis will be quietly legalized in some form, probably as a rider on a budget bill.


Seems like the only old men from the south who happen to be AG support keeping it illegal. ;)
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:08 am

DocLightning wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Which brings up the great philosophical question: if something in all 50 states is legalized, but federal law prohibits it, does federal law still matter and apply?


It isn't a philosophical question. Federal law is supreme to state law. However, on a practical level the DEA lacks the resources to arrest something like 40% of the population and also the political will to continue prohibition is rapidly dwindling. I predict that within ten years, cannabis will be quietly legalized in some form, probably as a rider on a budget bill.


We should legalize all drugs. Not sure why we pick and choose.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

We should legalize all drugs. Not sure why we pick and choose.


Generally, I agree with you. I do, however, have an issue with drugs that could be used as a weapon.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
NIKV69
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:00 pm

DocLightning wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

We should legalize all drugs. Not sure why we pick and choose.


Generally, I agree with you. I do, however, have an issue with drugs that could be used as a weapon.


Please excuse my ignorance but please explain.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
bhill
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:24 pm

Well, welcome to the "rolls" Vermont....and WA State realized $500million in revenue to help the coffers....including the lawsuit to defend it when this goes to SCOTUS....
Carpe Pices
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:36 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance but please explain.


For example, carfentanyl is a *very* potent opioid (10,000 times as potent as morphine) that could be aerosolized and used to kill a room full of people.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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rwsea
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:46 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
This makes 8 states with full marijuana legalization and 29 states with at least medicinal marijuana. At the pace legalized marijuana is being accepted, I wouldn't be surprised if it's legal in some form in all states within 10 years (I think even the Bible Belt will come around when they see the results from the other states). Then Sessions won't have much of a leg to stand on.

Which brings up the great philosophical question: if something in all 50 states is legalized, but federal law prohibits it, does federal law still matter and apply?


It would still matter and apply, although a reasonable assumption is that elected representatives would legalize it on a national level in such a case (given popular support and legalization across the board). Unfortunately, even that would seem impossible in this uncompromising congress, however.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 am

DocLightning wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance but please explain.


For example, carfentanyl is a *very* potent opioid (10,000 times as potent as morphine) that could be aerosolized and used to kill a room full of people.


Illegal or not any synthetic drug that terrorists want they will get if they want to attack a mass of people. Legalizing it and taxing it has more controls and will give authorities info on who buys it and what quantities.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
jubguy3
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:28 am

Gahahah... "muh states rights" until it's not something that fits into the Republican's anti-society agenda. Fuck you sessions.
 
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falstaff
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Re: Vermont Senate passes Weed bill!!

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:35 pm

I am lean fairly far to the right and so do most of my friends and we all think marijuana should be legal, just because society needs to focus on more important things.

If it becomes legal we can finally stop all of the nonsense about it being medicine. Here in Michigan it is such a joke. I know many people with a medical marijuana card and every one of them was a pot smoker before and would still be if it was legal or not. I am tired of hearing about people who grow marijuana or sell it in a store being called "caregivers". I am sick of hearing about all the nonsense claims about how marijuana can cure every disease under the sun. I get so sick of these idiots who swear it cures cancer, but can't ever provide a peer reviewed scientific example of somebody cured by only using marijuana. If smoking marijuana cures cancer than how did two friends of mine, who smoke it, get cancer in the first place? Marijuana certainly has medical uses, but it isn't some sort of wonder drug that fixes everyone's problems. Just admit you like to get high and stop blathering on about how it takes away the pain on the broken arm you had when you were child, thirty years ago.

DocLightning wrote:
For example, carfentanyl is a *very* potent opioid (10,000 times as potent as morphine) that could be aerosolized and used to kill a room full of people.


Yes keeping that illegal would be a good idea.

NIKV69 wrote:
We should legalize all drugs. Not sure why we pick and choose.

I don't think we need to legalize meth or heroin and have more unemployable drug addicts running around stealing everything to pay for it. Legal or not they still will be hooked and will still have to come up with money to pay for it. If they are too strung out to work or be safe to work then they won't be able to pay for it regardless of legality.

If we are to continue to legalize marijuana we need to toughen up 'drugged driving" laws and come up with reliable tests to show if someone is OUI. Michigan is working on that right now. I read in the St. Louis-Post Dispatch a few weeks ago that the Colorado Department of Transportation as seen a 60% increase in the number if fatal car crashes where the driver was impaired by marijuana. The "nobody ever died from smoking marijuana" crowd seems to like to point out that it isn't possible to crash your car while high. I call BS on that. I haven't smoked weed in a couple of decades, but I can assure you there were times I was way to stoned to be driving and I didn't drive. I have had many people tell me they drive better while high. I have heard drunks tell me the same thing. That is total nonsense. I recently got into a discussion with somebody who said it was wrong for the police to arrest stoned drivers, but was ok with enforcement of drunk driving laws. It really boiled down to self interest because that person smokes weed and drives. I told her that I would like it if I was allowed to drink and drive because that would be really convenient for me, but since we share the road with others we all have to be responsible.
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