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How do power outages happen?
With today's in ATL, and the one in MIA a while back, I was wondering how can a major international airport just lose all power? Do they not have backups? Because that's just stupid. Unless there was a major problem I don't see how regular and backup power can just fail.
Re: How do power outages happen?
They have backups, but its impossible to predict every situation. You may have a backup unit, but if the airport is connected to both main and backup power sources via a single route, and that route is cut, both the main and the backup are equally useless.
Re: How do power outages happen?
I suggest it is a lack of first world power transmission infrastructure.
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- Osubuckeyes
- Posts: 2006
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Re: How do power outages happen?
There is a massive range of causes for major outages and outages to major infrastructure. IMO, many are caused by design flaws, poor design or outdated design. ATL specifically sounds like an issue poor design, but I haven't seen enough detail to know that for sure.
I'll add the caveat that major weather catastrophes are obviously cause major outages, but I'm guessing that isn't what you are looking for.
I'll add the caveat that major weather catastrophes are obviously cause major outages, but I'm guessing that isn't what you are looking for.
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- readytotaxi
- Posts: 10023
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Re: How do power outages happen?
Osubuckeyes wrote:There is a massive range of causes for major outages and outages to major infrastructure. IMO, many are caused by design flaws, poor design or outdated design. ATL specifically sounds like an issue poor design, but I haven't seen enough detail to know that for sure.
I'll add the caveat that major weather catastrophes are obviously cause major outages, but I'm guessing that isn't what you are looking for.
Yes indeed, very good points. The main thing is backup, when it goes tits up, how much are you prepared to spend as a company to ensure a backup kicks in straight away and you just blink? Guess you need to build the cost into the original pricing.
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- casinterest
- Posts: 16972
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Re: How do power outages happen?
readytotaxi wrote:Osubuckeyes wrote:There is a massive range of causes for major outages and outages to major infrastructure. IMO, many are caused by design flaws, poor design or outdated design. ATL specifically sounds like an issue poor design, but I haven't seen enough detail to know that for sure.
I'll add the caveat that major weather catastrophes are obviously cause major outages, but I'm guessing that isn't what you are looking for.
Yes indeed, very good points. The main thing is backup, when it goes tits up, how much are you prepared to spend as a company to ensure a backup kicks in straight away and you just blink? Guess you need to build the cost into the original pricing.
No one likes to do it. Redundancy through a spare is something that even when designed into a system is often neglected through regular maintenance and upkeep of a system.
I have seen many issues where customers start out with the best intentions of redundancy, and due to unforeseen issues, they lose it.
In this case ,(based on my current understanding) There were 2 different power sources that supplied power to the airport.
So the redundancy was there. However, the device that actually manages the flow of these two power sources failed. A single point of failure.
In other words, they probably need two other seperate flows from these power sources to a separate flow device in order to get this redundancy they need.
They may have had the 2nd device, but if this was a fire issue, co location would have been an issue.
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- flyingturtle
- Posts: 6590
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Re: How do power outages happen?
It suffices that a bold squirrel goes where no squirrel has gone before... and it becomes a roasted squirrel.
Fukushima was, in the end, caused by a power outage. After the earthquake, the power plant shut down, for safety reasons. But so, reactor cooling depended on diesel generators... which were then taken out by flooding.
David
Fukushima was, in the end, caused by a power outage. After the earthquake, the power plant shut down, for safety reasons. But so, reactor cooling depended on diesel generators... which were then taken out by flooding.
David
Re: How do power outages happen?
I've also heard stories of companies that had all the infrastructure and redundancy required -- but apparently the designers forgot that diesel gels when it gets particularly cold, and they didn't insulate the diesel feed adequately.
I've know of a building where the generators were placed well above the flood levels ... and the diesel storage tanks at ground level. Ooops!
I've know of a building where the generators were placed well above the flood levels ... and the diesel storage tanks at ground level. Ooops!
Re: How do power outages happen?
Outages happen as part of built-in safety in the generation and transmission network.
In old days those who manage the network were skilled, they could isolate the issue and manually reset tripped circuits at multiple sub-stations, a labor-intensive work.
Now all they are capable is to touch the computer screen (or) push a button and expect magic to happen.
It actually takes longer to restore power unless it can be fixed by button pushing.
In old days those who manage the network were skilled, they could isolate the issue and manually reset tripped circuits at multiple sub-stations, a labor-intensive work.
Now all they are capable is to touch the computer screen (or) push a button and expect magic to happen.
It actually takes longer to restore power unless it can be fixed by button pushing.
Re: How do power outages happen?
My work campus has 4 sources of power, electricity is injected at different points in a loop, that way if the loop is cut, power can still flow "the other way".
Still we managed to have a partial blackout recently.
It turns out since we produce a lot of electricity (solar farm) and have diesel generators and a battery backup (made of batteries from electric cars), the utility will cut us off from time to time when they need to reduce their load. Usually solar and batteries are enough, but that day there was not much sun. No problem, the huge caterpillars should have taken the slack, except someone screwed up and hadn't checked the starter batteries on these. It turns out they were not charged enough to start the monsters.
Still we managed to have a partial blackout recently.
It turns out since we produce a lot of electricity (solar farm) and have diesel generators and a battery backup (made of batteries from electric cars), the utility will cut us off from time to time when they need to reduce their load. Usually solar and batteries are enough, but that day there was not much sun. No problem, the huge caterpillars should have taken the slack, except someone screwed up and hadn't checked the starter batteries on these. It turns out they were not charged enough to start the monsters.
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- Channex757
- Posts: 2423
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Re: How do power outages happen?
http://www.bloomenergy.com/
A good few of the major tech companies are introducing these into their energy mix. The Bloom fuel cell can be fuelled by different fuel stock, including the preferred option of natural gas. It is apparently very competitive and obviously an on-site solution that can be started and stopped as needed.
Ideal for hospitals too as they have needs that simply cannot be left unmet for more than a few seconds. The technology is a descendant of the fuel cells used by NASA on the Shuttle.
A good few of the major tech companies are introducing these into their energy mix. The Bloom fuel cell can be fuelled by different fuel stock, including the preferred option of natural gas. It is apparently very competitive and obviously an on-site solution that can be started and stopped as needed.
Ideal for hospitals too as they have needs that simply cannot be left unmet for more than a few seconds. The technology is a descendant of the fuel cells used by NASA on the Shuttle.
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- WIederling
- Posts: 10043
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Re: How do power outages happen?
BreninTW wrote:I've know of a building where the generators were placed well above the flood levels ... and the diesel storage tanks at ground level. Ooops!
That is what really turned Fukushima into a stinking radiating pile.
They had multiple diesel emergency gensets each with a rather small fuel supply
that depended on replenishing from the quayside single storage tank that was washed away.
(And they should have placed backup power higher up on the cliff too.)