Senator Frankin has just indicated he will resign in the "coming weeks".

His most powerful comment was that he could not miss the irony that he is resigning while a man who bragged about sexual achievements on tape now sits in hte Oval Office and a man who sexual assaulted young girls as a 32 year old man was running for the Senate with the full support of the GOP.

Reputable news sources will be writing full stories right now

Just as his resignation is necessary, the contrast is astounding.

It would be a lot easier to democrats to claim the high ground if they had done this from the beginning (make no mistake, he was forced out). Better late than never, I guess.

Any form of sexual discrimination and improper behavior is wrong, from rape to a butt grab. It is demeaning to the victims, to put them 'in their place', for the powerful to keep it and keep the victims from attaining employment and advancement opportunities, higher or keeping their income and affects their mental and physical health.
I hope Sen. Franken and Rep. Conyers are replaced by women, it would be a fitting choice and good for the party.
The next step is to disclose the list of Members of Congress, the Senate and top staffers who the taxpayers had to pay damages for their sexual and other acts on subordinates. That might mean a lot of members also having to resign.
I wish that with these and other resignations from public office they would lose their pensions and other retirement benefits.

As a reminder, when you participate in the forums, please do not make up falsehoods that derail threads when the truth is easily verifiable. Thanks!

While I’m not sorry to see Senator Franken leave, I remain very disturbed at the relative ease with which someone’s career is destroyed without the benefit of some sort of due process.

EA CO AS wrote:

While I’m not sorry to see Senator Franken leave, I remain very disturbed at the relative ease with which someone’s career is destroyed without the benefit of some sort of due process.

You don't work in a right to work state do you?

I find it ironic but not surprising that in his speech he made no attempt to apologize for his actions. CNN cited in this article. 4th paragraph.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/ ... index.html


One of his accusers had this to say after the speech.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/12/0 ... on-speech/


It's not surprising though as he was sacrificed for the 2018 mid terms and to further the Moore narrative.

Good riddance.

cledaybuck wrote:

It would be a lot easier to democrats to claim the high ground if they had done this from the beginning (make no mistake, he was forced out). Better late than never, I guess.

The moral high ground is obvious if only because the two Democratic reps resigning their offices are doing so inside of 4-5 weeks from initial allegation. On the Republican side you have a self-confessed sexual predator occupying the White House who is now openly advocating, alongside his party apparatus, the election of another sexual predator to the Senate. No allegations proven in a court of law anywhere, but the litany of accusations and number of accusers alone was sufficient for the Democratic Party, the very opposite being true of the GOP. Claiming that high ground just became real. Moore getting into the Senate is probably a done deal and the Dems are going to take that event to town for a long time. Personally, I think the GOP is insane to put money into his election. If women really are smarter that should translate into a 5% gain for Dem votes next year across the board.

cledaybuck wrote:

It would be a lot easier to democrats to claim the high ground if they had done this from the beginning (make no mistake, he was forced out). Better late than never, I guess.

In the beginning, it was just buffoonery, not even sexual in nature. But now we can see the pattern, and although it still isn't sexual perversion or pedophilia, the behavior is unacceptable.

Get off your high horse Mr. Trump / Moore guy.

NIKV69 wrote:

I find it ironic but not surprising that in his speech he made no attempt to apologize for his actions. CNN cited in this article. 4th paragraph.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/ ... index.html


One of his accusers had this to say after the speech.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/12/0 ... on-speech/


It's not surprising though as he was sacrificed for the 2018 mid terms and to further the Moore narrative.

Good riddance.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/ ... index.html

He did apologize, but then again, you don't care for facts do you ? Especially when it doesn't support your narrative.

casinterest wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

While I’m not sorry to see Senator Franken leave, I remain very disturbed at the relative ease with which someone’s career is destroyed without the benefit of some sort of due process.

You don't work in a right to work state do you?

On the contrary, and part of my job involves HR, including the handling of harassment claims.

casinterest wrote:

He did apologize, but then again, you don't care for facts do you ? Especially when it doesn't support your narrative.

Did you read my post? In his speech........

Read the CNN article carefully. His speech was bitter and had no contrition. IMO he wouldn't have resigned. He was pushed into it by his party trying to push out Moore.

I am not sure what my narrative is but if you have been watching the MSM all day you will see most on both sides agree.

NIKV69 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

He did apologize, but then again, you don't care for facts do you ? Especially when it doesn't support your narrative.

Did you read my post? In his speech........

Read the CNN article carefully. His speech was bitter and had no contrition. IMO he wouldn't have resigned. He was pushed into it by his party trying to push out Moore.

I am not sure what my narrative is but if you have been watching the MSM all day you will see most on both sides agree.

I don't watch MSM all day. I work for a living. I just know he apolgized in the past.

How many times should he apologize in your opinion?

Especially when cowards such as Trump and Moore continue to press on like nothing is happening and get cheered on by the GOP?

His speech was virtually identical to a Roy Moore / Trump speech (I am a great guy, and these women are liars), except Franken also mixed in some self-serving feminist babble as well.

Because of how he handled this incident, Franken was essentially ejected from the Democratic Party. That leaves you to wonder -- who is he? If he supposedly has a moral point of view, what is that view? Is he a Democrat? Given how he behaved today?

NIKV69 wrote:

Read the CNN article carefully. His speech was bitter and had no contrition. IMO he wouldn't have resigned. He was pushed into it by his party trying to push out Moore.

I am not sure what my narrative is but if you have been watching the MSM all day you will see most on both sides agree.

This is correct. Franken said he has "regret" for women's feelings about his actions. A synonym for regret could be despise, condemn, etc. It is just a statement of animosity, not contrition. He also didn't say he would stop assaulting women going forward.

Good riddance. He'll stick around a few weeks for some key votes the Democrats need. There will be a special election next November - look for the Republicans to put money and resources in that race.

casinterest wrote:

I don't watch MSM all day. I work for a living. I just know he apolgized in the past.

I work for a living as well sir. Again my context was his resignation speech. Not what he has done in the past.

casinterest wrote:

How many times should he apologize in your opinion?

Again not sure what that has to do with his speech. He was forced to resign, clearly wasn't going to and his speech had no contrition and was mostly an attack against Trump. Which I found insulting which is a sentiment mostly shared across the political spectrum.

casinterest wrote:

Especially when cowards such as Trump and Moore continue to press on like nothing is happening and get cheered on by the GOP?

Articles of impeachment were brought against Trump yesterday and the votes were not there. Moore will probably win next week and then be removed from the Senate where which another Republican will be appointed.

Franken didn't have to do what he did but he did and I was critical of his speech and way he did it. If we can stick to the topic it would benefit the whole thread.

NIKV69 wrote:

casinterest wrote:


I don't watch MSM all day. I work for a living. I just know he apolgized in the past.


I work for a living as well sir. Again my context was his resignation speech. Not what he has done in the past.

He resigned because he was forced out. Perhaps he should have resigned on his own, but he was still forced out. There is bitternesd there, but he apologized for things done outside the Senate, long before he resigned.

NIKV69 wrote:

casinterest wrote:


How many times should he apologize in your opinion?


Again not sure what that has to do with his speech. He was forced to resign, clearly wasn't going to and his speech had no contrition and was mostly an attack against Trump. Which I found insulting which is a sentiment mostly shared across the political spectrum.

He should attack Trump. Trump gets to continue on to serve in a disgusting twist.

NIKV69 wrote:

Articles of impeachment were brought against Trump yesterday and the votes were not there. Moore will probably win next week and then be removed from the Senate where which another Republican will be appointed.

Franken didn't have to do what he did but he did and I was critical of his speech and way he did it. If we can stick to the topic it would benefit the whole thread.

Impeachment was not brought in a timely fashion. Trump, if he had any honor, would have already resigned. Moore would have done the same ,

wingman wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

It would be a lot easier to democrats to claim the high ground if they had done this from the beginning (make no mistake, he was forced out). Better late than never, I guess.

The moral high ground is obvious if only because the two Democratic reps resigning their offices are doing so inside of 4-5 weeks from initial allegation. On the Republican side you have a self-confessed sexual predator occupying the White House who is now openly advocating, alongside his party apparatus, the election of another sexual predator to the Senate. No allegations proven in a court of law anywhere, but the litany of accusations and number of accusers alone was sufficient for the Democratic Party, the very opposite being true of the GOP. Claiming that high ground just became real. Moore getting into the Senate is probably a done deal and the Dems are going to take that event to town for a long time. Personally, I think the GOP is insane to put money into his election. If women really are smarter that should translate into a 5% gain for Dem votes next year across the board.

I agree that the demo rats a grabbing the high ground. I would just feel they are doing this for the right moral reasons rather than political reason if they had forced resignation right away rather than right after the GOP doubled down on sexual assault and pedophilia. As for women, didn't Trump still win white women despite his comments?

salttee wrote:

Just as his resignation is necessary, the contrast is astounding.

Well put, sir.

salttee wrote:

Get off your high horse Mr. Trump / Moore guy.

I thought personal attacks weren't allowed on this site.

The person to replace the senator whom I voted for will be appointed by the governor whom I voted against.

Bleah.

Now we have Congressman Franks (R-AZ) resigning...What he is accused of is so far out of bounds.

Rep. Trent Franks, an Arizona Republican who is among the most conservative members of the House, said Thursday he would resign his seat in a statement where he acknowledged asking two female subordinates to bear his surrogate children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 5cbb7334c7

I think it is absolutely disgusting that righties are screaming about how we NEED to take these accusations against Franken seriously and we MUST believe these women who accused Franken but we can not believe any of the women who accused Moore or Trump because there was no trial and that was so long ago and any other reason. If you feel we all HAVE to believe Franken's accusers, then we all HAVE to believe Trump's and Moore's accusers. Period.

One comment I heard on the radio was:

Democrats are playing Queensberry Rules while Republicans are playing street rules and demanding everyone else play Queensberry rules.

EA CO AS wrote:

While I’m not sorry to see Senator Franken leave, I remain very disturbed at the relative ease with which someone’s career is destroyed without the benefit of some sort of due process.

NIKV69 wrote:

His speech was bitter and had no contrition. IMO he wouldn't have resigned. He was pushed into it by his party trying to push out Moore.

11725Flyer wrote:

Good riddance. He'll stick around a few weeks for some key votes the Democrats need. There will be a special election next November - look for the Republicans to put money and resources in that race.

Ken777 wrote:

Senator Franken has just indicated he will resign in the "coming weeks".

His most powerful comment was that he could not miss the irony that he is resigning while a man who bragged about sexual achievements on tape now sits in the Oval Office and a man who sexual assaulted young girls as a 32 year old man was running for the Senate with the full support of the GOP.

Well, maybe it was for you...

But don't worry, most of the Partisan Liberal Media outlets made it a point to repeat only that soundbite --- from an 11 minute speech.

And --- Franken's most stupid comment was that he was resigning because he could not be effective and go through an Ethics Committee process, even though The Senator previously stated that going through the Ethics Committee process was the right thing to do.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

While I’m not sorry to see Senator Franken leave, I remain very disturbed at the relative ease with which someone’s career is destroyed without the benefit of some sort of due process.

NIKV69 wrote:

His speech was bitter and had no contrition. IMO he wouldn't have resigned. He was pushed into it by his party trying to push out Moore.

11725Flyer wrote:

Good riddance. He'll stick around a few weeks for some key votes the Democrats need. There will be a special election next November - look for the Republicans to put money and resources in that race.

Ken777 wrote:

Senator Franken has just indicated he will resign in the "coming weeks".

His most powerful comment was that he could not miss the irony that he is resigning while a man who bragged about sexual achievements on tape now sits in the Oval Office and a man who sexual assaulted young girls as a 32 year old man was running for the Senate with the full support of the GOP.

Well, maybe it was for you...

But don't worry, most of the Partisan Liberal Media outlets made it a point to repeat only that soundbite --- from an 11 minute speech.

And --- Franken's most stupid comment was that he was resigning because he could not be effective and go through an Ethics Committee process, even though The Senator previously stated that going through the Ethics Committee process was the right thing to do.

A senator who actually does something good and you laugh. What a shock. What he did is called "being a gentleman" and "being human." Compare and contrast that to Trump and Moore. I guess, to gain the respect and admiration of the right, he should have denied everything and called his accusers liars.

No matter what he said, he hit it right on the head about Trump and Moore. They are as bad as anyone else who exploits women and minors sexually. Yet the Republican Party cannot bring themselves to actually condemn them. Greed and power will overcome morals every time.

I bring back a question I asked in the Sexual Assault thread: are men being given the right to due process?

A lot of things at play here:
1. Why was it that only after the 7th allegation was the last straw and Democrats demanded Franken resign? Why not the 3rd? Why not the 10th?
2. Democrats now lose a Senator (though Dayton could appoint a strong candidate, except they're not allowed to run for the seat) and have to worry about another seat in a state that is slowly trending Republican (Clinton barely won MN). Why not have him serve out the remainder of his term and allow the Ethics committee to issue a final verdict in the meantime?
3. In an effort to claim the moral high ground, Democrats are using Franken as collateral damage without allowing him any sort of process. It seems they want to use this as a means to gain majorities in both chambers of Congress. Is this really a sincere effort to be the morals party or is it politicking at its worst?

I don't know...I would have preferred an Al Franken that was defiant and demand that the process be carried out completely. He could make the concession to not run in 2020, but one thing rang true: the irony that he's being punished all the while two folks with even more evidence against them have the full support of their party. That was definitely a jab at the Democrats as well.

Does anyone really think Republicans will then unseat Moore if he wins? Of course not. They want his vote AND will aim to get Franken's seat next November, morals be damned.

Democrats already tried to play clean (they go low, we aim high) and look how that turned out. This will not do them any favors.

casinterest wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I find it ironic but not surprising that in his speech he made no attempt to apologize for his actions. CNN cited in this article. 4th paragraph.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/ ... index.html


One of his accusers had this to say after the speech.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/12/0 ... on-speech/


It's not surprising though as he was sacrificed for the 2018 mid terms and to further the Moore narrative.

Good riddance.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/ ... index.html

He did apologize, but then again, you don't care for facts do you ? Especially when it doesn't support your narrative.

What about YOUR narrative? It's pretty easy to see what the Dems are doing. They forced Franken out to make it appear they are taking some kind of moral high ground so that when or if Moore is elected they can say "Hey we care about women we cleaned our house what about you?" Pretty strategic actually. I am really wondering why Franken said he will step down in a few weeks umm could it be that he is waiting to see if Moore is elected? Then he can have a change of heart and say I really didn't mean it I am staying. Another thing I am wondering is who is the Gov going to replace Franken with my guess is it will be a woman and better yet a woman of color because after all when it comes to liberals its all about color and or sex and not about who is the best qualified.

stratosphere wrote:

casinterest wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I find it ironic but not surprising that in his speech he made no attempt to apologize for his actions. CNN cited in this article. 4th paragraph.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/ ... index.html


One of his accusers had this to say after the speech.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/12/0 ... on-speech/


It's not surprising though as he was sacrificed for the 2018 mid terms and to further the Moore narrative.

Good riddance.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/ ... index.html

He did apologize, but then again, you don't care for facts do you ? Especially when it doesn't support your narrative.

What about YOUR narrative? It's pretty easy to see what the Dems are doing. They forced Franken out to make it appear they are taking some kind of moral high ground so that when or if Moore is elected they can say "Hey we care about women we cleaned our house what about you?" Pretty strategic actually. I am really wondering why Franken said he will step down in a few weeks umm could it be that he is waiting to see if Moore is elected? Then he can have a change of heart and say I really didn't mean it I am staying. Another thing I am wondering is who is the Gov going to replace Franken with my guess is it will be a woman and better yet a woman of color because after all when it comes to liberals its all about color and or sex and not about who is the best qualified.

My Narrative? How about the GOP narrative to spin support for pedofiles into something glorious. Moore couldn't even do his job as a judge. How do you expect him to do his job as a Senator?
Franken resigned, Franks resigned. Why doesn't Trump or Moore do the best thing for the country, and get out of office?

The Governor of Minnesota, will appoint someone who can best win the election in 2018 in a reasonably middle road state.

stratosphere wrote:

...They forced Franken out to make it appear they are taking some kind of moral high ground so that when or if Moore is elected they can say "Hey we care about women we cleaned our house what about you?" ...

I don't think either side can claim any moral high-ground. Hollywood, liberal media and Clinton have enough skeletons in the closet and the walls. On the Republican side, Ray Moore, Billy Bush tape, and Fox News anchors will haunt forever.

dtw2hyd wrote:

I don't think either side can claim any moral high-ground. Hollywood, liberal media and Clinton have enough skeletons in the closet and the walls. On the Republican side, Ray Moore, Billy Bush tape, and Fox News anchors will haunt forever.

There's a distinction to be made between elected officials and like-minded individuals.

If I do drugs but support Democrats, that doesn't mean all Democrats do drugs. The guilt by association only goes so far. However, if silence prevails and no one disavows said support, then you can have a case. It's why Republicans were keen on Trump disavowing David Duke's support: for him to remain silent means that he has no problem with white supremacists involved in his campaign, which leads to the narrative that the Republican nominee (and therefore the party) associates himself with white supremacists.

At issue is how far you go before you lose sight of what you stand for. If getting a Republican elected for the sake of having a vote for your agenda is all that matters (and you're willing to overlook or refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room), then maybe it's fair to say that, at the very least, you don't have a problem with a child molester. But then you can't have your cake and eat it by denouncing the other party for having someone with similar history. In the same manner, if you're getting rid of a Democrat to claim moral ground and use it as an election issue, then maybe it's pure politicking and not because you actually believe that someone with a tainted history should not serve.

einsteinboricua wrote:

Democrats already tried to play clean (they go low, we aim high) and look how that turned out. This will not do them any favors.

I love Michelle Obama, but on this point she was dead wrong. The left often like to take the moral high ground, but the Dems have been absolutely unable to adjust it to fit the current narrative, and it's why so many of us are fed up with them. You can't take the moral high ground when you're opponents are sewer dwellers. When you have a political party willing to support an utterly unqualified buffoon who bragged about grabbing women by the vagina and a fringe lunatic accused of pedophilia, you're up against people who are utterly bereft of morals. You can be the better person all you want, but these people are in so deep, they're not going to suddenly see the light and change their ways.

stratosphere wrote:

Another thing I am wondering is who is the Gov going to replace Franken with my guess is it will be a woman and better yet a woman of color because after all when it comes to liberals its all about color and or sex and not about who is the best qualified.

Right because Republicans wholeheartedly rejected the utterly unqualified reality star clown with zero government experience. Oh wait.... And now they're rejecting the fringe mad man accused of pedophilia who believes the bible takes precedence over the Constitution. Oh wait again...

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

NIKV69 wrote:

Articles of impeachment were brought against Trump yesterday and the votes were not there. Moore will probably win next week and then be removed from the Senate where which another Republican will be appointed.

Franken didn't have to do what he did but he did and I was critical of his speech and way he did it. If we can stick to the topic it would benefit the whole thread.

You don't really believe what you wrote there, do you? If Moore wins, which is sadly more likely than not since somehow for Alabamans being a Democrat is worse an offense than being a pedofile, Republicans won't do anything about it.

They'll gladly accept the senate seat and just forget anything they've said about "family values" for a few weeks before going back to limiting the rights of single mothers, women wanting access to birth control, the LGBT community,...

In fact, there was one Republican this weekend to stand up to speak out on Moore. Respect where it's due, and therefore I commend Mitt Romney on his statement. However, the only effect it had was neofascist goblin Bannon launching an ad-hominem attack against him and the Mormon faith and a day later the RNC deciding that somehow pedofilia isn't that bad after all.

lugie wrote:

Republicans won't do anything about it. .

My guess RNC will let Moore win, seat him, kick him out of Senate and let Governor replace with a different person and go for elections again. So they retain the seat.

dtw2hyd wrote:

lugie wrote:

Republicans won't do anything about it. .

My guess RNC will let Moore win, seat him, kick him out of Senate and let Governor replace with a different person and go for elections again. So they retain the seat.

And if I were a Democrat I'd vote against that process for two reasons:
1. You own Moore. He's your problem, not mine. Why should I bail you out? How is Moore my problem? Personal responsibility, perhaps?
2. The people of Alabama spoke. That's who they want in the Senate. It's not up to me to go against what AL voters decided, even if it's unethical. You can take a horse to water...

Republicans LOVE to rail against the "coastal elites" (aka Pacific coast states and the northeast) deciding what the rest of the nation should do. Well, now's your chance. Alabama voted and decided a pedophile is what they wanted? That's not New York's problem or California's or Washington's or Maryland's or Massachusetts's. That's Alabama's and whoever wants to be allied with him. The GOP can always deny him access to their caucus so even though they hold 52 seats, their party will work with 51 (Moore will likely vote with the party rather than go against the grain so it's a de facto 52nd vote).

And if Republicans are desperate for my vote, I'd make them pay dearly in exchange for it. If the situation were the other way around, I'm certain Republicans wouldn't hesitate to say "not my problem; he's yours. Stick with him and see how it hurts you".

If Moore's elected, that's a gift to the Democrats. GOP candidates all over will be asked if they ally themselves with Moore and his behavior.

DocLightning wrote:

salttee wrote:

Just as his resignation is necessary, the contrast is astounding.

Well put, sir.

Kind of funny but I remember when Bill Clinton was in this situation the reaction of the left was quite different. Guess you must have "Evolved"

casinterest wrote:

He should attack Trump. Trump gets to continue on to serve in a disgusting twist.

As did Clinton. You will have a chance to get rid of Trump. In 2020.

NIKV69 wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

salttee wrote:

Just as his resignation is necessary, the contrast is astounding.

Well put, sir.

Kind of funny but I remember when Bill Clinton was in this situation the reaction of the left was quite different. Guess you must have "Evolved"

casinterest wrote:

He should attack Trump. Trump gets to continue on to serve in a disgusting twist.

As did Clinton. You will have a chance to get rid of Trump. In 2020.

Please go on and send Money to Trump who has tweeted his support to a pedofile as part of his grand plan to Make America Great Again. You have to really sit and think about the perversion of that tweet.

einsteinboricua wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

lugie wrote:

Republicans won't do anything about it. .

My guess RNC will let Moore win, seat him, kick him out of Senate and let Governor replace with a different person and go for elections again. So they retain the seat.

And if I were a Democrat I'd vote against that process for two reasons:
1. You own Moore. He's your problem, not mine. Why should I bail you out? How is Moore my problem? Personal responsibility, perhaps?
2. The people of Alabama spoke. That's who they want in the Senate. It's not up to me to go against what AL voters decided, even if it's unethical. You can take a horse to water...

Republicans LOVE to rail against the "coastal elites" (aka Pacific coast states and the northeast) deciding what the rest of the nation should do. Well, now's your chance. Alabama voted and decided a pedophile is what they wanted? That's not New York's problem or California's or Washington's or Maryland's or Massachusetts's. That's Alabama's and whoever wants to be allied with him. The GOP can always deny him access to their caucus so even though they hold 52 seats, their party will work with 51 (Moore will likely vote with the party rather than go against the grain so it's a de facto 52nd vote).

And if Republicans are desperate for my vote, I'd make them pay dearly in exchange for it. If the situation were the other way around, I'm certain Republicans wouldn't hesitate to say "not my problem; he's yours. Stick with him and see how it hurts you".

If Moore's elected, that's a gift to the Democrats. GOP candidates all over will be asked if they ally themselves with Moore and his behavior.

The Republican and Democratic responses have been pretty good. Both Moore and Franken have been condemned by their respective parties. The RNC tried like hell to defeat Moore in the primary for just these reasons. He is poison. Franken is too, just more smarmy and calculating. He calibrates his lies to his audience. Precisely as Roy Moore does. These are both intelligent men who have personality problems.

Many more members of congress, corporate figures and entertainment figures will be removed from office. This is just getting started.

einsteinboricua wrote:

And if I were a Democrat I'd vote against that process for two reasons:
1. You own Moore. He's your problem, not mine. Why should I bail you out? How is Moore my problem? Personal responsibility, perhaps?
2. The people of Alabama spoke. That's who they want in the Senate. It's not up to me to go against what AL voters decided, even if it's unethical. You can take a horse to water.

But you wouldn't apply the same logic to Trump, correct? He got elected after Billy Bush tape, 14+ allegations, and rumors of Golden showers. Can Dems and CNN keep quiet for 3 more years using your logic?

seahawk wrote:

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Flighty wrote:

einsteinboricua wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

My guess RNC will let Moore win, seat him, kick him out of Senate and let Governor replace with a different person and go for elections again. So they retain the seat.

And if I were a Democrat I'd vote against that process for two reasons:
1. You own Moore. He's your problem, not mine. Why should I bail you out? How is Moore my problem? Personal responsibility, perhaps?
2. The people of Alabama spoke. That's who they want in the Senate. It's not up to me to go against what AL voters decided, even if it's unethical. You can take a horse to water...

Republicans LOVE to rail against the "coastal elites" (aka Pacific coast states and the northeast) deciding what the rest of the nation should do. Well, now's your chance. Alabama voted and decided a pedophile is what they wanted? That's not New York's problem or California's or Washington's or Maryland's or Massachusetts's. That's Alabama's and whoever wants to be allied with him. The GOP can always deny him access to their caucus so even though they hold 52 seats, their party will work with 51 (Moore will likely vote with the party rather than go against the grain so it's a de facto 52nd vote).

And if Republicans are desperate for my vote, I'd make them pay dearly in exchange for it. If the situation were the other way around, I'm certain Republicans wouldn't hesitate to say "not my problem; he's yours. Stick with him and see how it hurts you".

If Moore's elected, that's a gift to the Democrats. GOP candidates all over will be asked if they ally themselves with Moore and his behavior.

The Republican and Democratic responses have been pretty good. Both Moore and Franken have been condemned by their respective parties. The RNC tried like hell to defeat Moore in the primary for just these reasons. He is poison. Franken is too, just more smarmy and calculating. He calibrates his lies to his audience. Precisely as Roy Moore does. These are both intelligent men who have personality problems.

Let's look at the personalities of both men. Franken admitted to his disgusting behavior and apologized for it. Moore denies his disgusting behavior even with all the women accusing him. And the RNC is backing him again INCLUDING the sexual predator in chief. Moore and Franken are not even in the same league.

johns624 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Republican government -> good or great for the country.

seahawk wrote:

johns624 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Republican government -> good or great for the country.

As opposed to Democratic Government?

Perhaps if you believe in one party rule, you would be happier in North Korea or China?

Pawlenty, the former GOP governor of Minnesota, has indicated interest in running in 2020.

I liked Franken's composure and focus during the committee meetings on the committees he served.

seahawk wrote:

johns624 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Republican government -> good or great for the country.

By taking away health care for seniors, veterans, children, and increasing the size and cost of government with no way of paying for it. But they do know how to blame Democrats for anything and everything!

dtw2hyd wrote:

But you wouldn't apply the same logic to Trump, correct? He got elected after Billy Bush tape, 14+ allegations, and rumors of Golden showers. Can Dems and CNN keep quiet for 3 more years using your logic?

Are you talking about impeaching him BECAUSE of these actions? That's not impeachable, especially when made BEFORE taking the oath of office. I would not introduce articles of impeachment because of this.

Now, it's fortunate and unfortunate that there's a process to remove a president by force. So I'm OK with "Dems and CNN" to keep hammering away at whatever they want. Similar to when Republicans were all bark and no bite when talking about impeaching Obama (for reasons that to this day are still a mystery).

When/if articles of impeachment are brought up, let them be because of a serious violation while in office. No one, I repeat, NO ONE has a clean slate. Even the smallest of things gets blown up as an election issue and becomes fodder for the opposition. Now, does that mean I believe Trump should continue serving after what he's been accused of? Absolutely not! But I respect that there is a process for removal and right now, admitting to groping is not a constitutional disqualifier. And frankly, the election spoke volumes about what people want in a candidate, so that's where I draw my logic: people are apparently drawn to molesters. So if the GOP caucus wants me to vote for Moore's removal, they can go kiss my @ss: their problem, not mine.

casinterest wrote:

seahawk wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Republican government -> good or great for the country.

As opposed to Democratic Government?

Perhaps if you believe in one party rule, you would be happier in North Korea or China?

See, single-party rule is horrible in California and Connecticut and Washington and Oregon and Maryland. The horror!

But conveniently left out is single-party rule across the South and Midwest. Most Southern and Midwestern states are states the GOP wishes did not exist. Someone needs to tell me how single-party GOP rule has benefitted Kansas or Oklahoma or Alabama or Mississippi. How has Kentucky fared? How is West Virginia faring lately?

Texas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Utah, and North Dakota are probably the exception (on the GOP side, at least): they all have various areas that are attracting people (weather and lower costs of living being the most notable ones).

johns624 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Works both ways back when Clinton was accused nobody cared about the victims and gave Clinton the benefit of the doubt. It was party before doing "what is right"

lugie wrote:

You don't really believe what you wrote there, do you? If Moore wins, which is sadly more likely than not since somehow for Alabamans being a Democrat is worse an offense than being a pedofile, Republicans won't do anything about it.

They'll gladly accept the senate seat and just forget anything they've said

I do believe in what I said. I think if he is elected they will have a huge problem and I think for sure he will get an ethics hearing. If the evidence jives he will be gone. Trump will then go to work getting a popular replacement with a clean record for the seat so everyone is happy.

NIKV69 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a great chance to get another seat for the Republicans.

Because that's what's important...party before country or ethics.

Works both ways back when Clinton was accused nobody cared about the victims and gave Clinton the benefit of the doubt. It was party before doing "what is right"

You have a very different recollection than the rest of us. The majority feeling was "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" which happened. Since he was found innocent of sexual misconduct, you righties seem to think that makes him a sexual predator, worse than Roy Moore and Donald Trump.