Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
dtw2hyd wrote:Israel can pick a reasonable depth to make it safe.
BobPatterson wrote:Dutchy wrote:Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.
In Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, with thousands of people gathering outside of U.S. embassies or consulates. So much winning for the US standing in the world...............
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... ce030070e3
Congrats Dutchy:
"Palestinian leaders called for three days of rage after Trump’s announcement Wednesday. The president’s decision was harshly criticized by Arab and European leaders, who said it risked sparking violence and would make peace more elusive."
Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.
Dutchy wrote:Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.
BobPatterson wrote:Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.
Kiwirob wrote:Is Jewish even a race? I've met black jews from Somalia and ethnically Arab jews from the middles east along with lilly white European jews and then there's American jews like Doc, clearly they are all ethnically different.
einsteinboricua wrote:Please, we all know who is to blame for all of this: Hillary Clinton because of her emails and Benghazi, and her failed tenure as Obama's SoS (so include him as well). And throw in Bill Clinton while you're at it, because NAFTA and jobs.
SAD!
moo wrote:Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -
Yup, it's a bit confusing.
BobPatterson wrote:Dutchy wrote:Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.
In Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, with thousands of people gathering outside of U.S. embassies or consulates. So much winning for the US standing in the world...............
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... ce030070e3
Congrats Dutchy:
"Palestinian leaders called for three days of rage after Trump’s announcement Wednesday. The president’s decision was harshly criticized by Arab and European leaders, who said it risked sparking violence and would make peace more elusive."
Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.
tommy1808 wrote:moo wrote:Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -
nope, humans don´t have races, period.Yup, it's a bit confusing.
mostly it is wrong.
best regards
Thomas
tommy1808 wrote:And if humans did have races, the Jewish population would straddle several of them.moo wrote:Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -
nope, humans don´t have races, period.
moo wrote:Trying to align nonsense with reality is often confusing.Yup, it's a bit confusing.
salttee wrote:tommy1808 wrote:And if humans did have races, the Jewish population would straddle several of them.moo wrote:Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -
nope, humans don´t have races, period.moo wrote:Trying to align nonsense with reality is often confusing.Yup, it's a bit confusing.
moo wrote:That's the best joke I've heard all year, you should *really* do standup.
DIRECTFLT wrote:The PLO does not want and does not seek a two-state solution.
DIRECTFLT wrote:The PLO wants a one-state solution -- for them.
DIRECTFLT wrote:And a no-state solution for Israel in the Middle East.
DocLightning wrote:There are Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Ethiopian Jews.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.
I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?
salttee wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:Israel can pick a reasonable depth to make it safe.
Israel wouldn't approve such a tunnel unless it went deep enough to reach the molten core.
Seriously, your idea is a non sequitur. If you find the joke entertaining you'd best just keep it to yourself, it's not really funny.
BawliBooch wrote:einsteinboricua wrote:Please, we all know who is to blame for all of this: Hillary Clinton because of her emails and Benghazi, and her failed tenure as Obama's SoS (so include him as well). And throw in Bill Clinton while you're at it, because NAFTA and jobs.
SAD!
I am sure Madame sHillary is guilty of many crimes - but I dont think she can be blamed for this Israel business. Of all the players, she has had the unique distinction of having been directly/indirectly engaged with Israel for the longest time - over 35 years - and we can safely say that she is certainly among the best friends Israel has in the Washington Establishment. This current "crisis" is the creation of the new cabal around Trump.
Ofcourse, sHillary's biggest crime here is that she pulled all the dirty tricks from her bag of potions to beat her rival in 2016 - that nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn.
bgm wrote:DIRECTFLT wrote:LMP737 wrote:This reminds me something Barry Goldwater once said. "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
IMO this just shows who is really running the show, Pence.
And VP Pence will be happy to run things as President for 7 years or so, through 2024, if you guys want Trump out of the way so bad.
einsteinboricua wrote:I REALLY don't understand the Republican obsession with Israel. Let's further destabilize the region by making a very unpopular move that will do nothing except boost egos in the US.
The question being asked in the West Wing is not whether this will destabilize the region, but more like "was Obama in favor of a two state solution? Yes? Then we're against it and are for a single Jewish state".
I doubt that. The move is eagerly and fully supported by Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. So go and ask Sen. Schumer why he supports an action that would "further destabilize the region by making a very unpopular move that will do nothing except boost egos in the US."
“As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the US Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem."
Schumer said the move would "appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem’s reunification and show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... ls-capital
You just cannot see beyond your partisan blinkers, can you? Doesn't matter who thinks it's a good idea, the fact is that it's not. It accomplishes nothing, except to destabilize the region and obliterates any hope of peace.
BawliBooch wrote:Hmm. A stray thought just entered my mind. If the rise in Middle East tensions caused by Trump's latest move leads to increased oil prices, then Russia stands to gain significantly. They have been the worst hit by the tragic fall in global oil prices.
This investment in Trump election might just pay off after all!
But we need something else to happen in the region along with this for this to really work. Any country suitable for America to invade? How about Yemen? Or a small shooting war in the Hormuz Straits to needle Iran?
stratosphere wrote:Placating to Israel hasn't gotten us any further either. Your point?Peace? The Arabs and Islam do not want peace every president has been placating to the Arab world for a long time and where has it gotten us?
stratosphere wrote:Until oil spikes because OPEC decides to cut shipments to the world. Not even fracking will help with the impact of a sudden spike.Not a big fan of Israel but I could care less if we piss off the ME it's not like they were our friends anyway plenty of terrorists were already hating on us finally glad to see a president who is willing to give the finger to them
stratosphere wrote:I keep hearing about this apology tour yet never see evidence for it. Why is that? Oh that's right.unlike Obama going around on his America apology tour where did that get us?
TheFlyingDisk wrote:I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.
I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?
Eyad89 wrote:Arabs want all the land for themselves, and they want to call it Palestine, while jews want all the land for themselves, and they want to call it Israel. I wish if it was that simple. Arabs have lived there for the past 2000 years and they want to stay there, while jews showed up out of nowhere some decades ago to claim it as their rightful land.
einsteinboricua wrote:You'll find people who will defend Israel's stance by saying that the kingdom of Israel had been there long before it was conquered by Arabs and that as such, Israel has sole claim to the land..
mercure1 wrote:So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?
At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.
dtw2hyd wrote:A highway flyover would join the two locations so that the Pals wouldn't have to go through an Israeli checkpoint. The Israelis already have all the safety they want, they are perfectly happy to lose a few people a year in order to keep the option of a greater Israel alive. The Zionists (who run the country) don't want a "solution".Do you have any serious ideas which allow unrestricted movement between Westbank and Gaza, at the same time allow relative safety to Israelis?
N14AZ wrote:mercure1 wrote:So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?
At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.
I also expected some more reactions others than the usual riots after the Friday prayers. I have the feeling that the reaction to Trump‘s announcement will not be as severe as many thought.
Jalap wrote:N14AZ wrote:mercure1 wrote:So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?
At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.
I also expected some more reactions others than the usual riots after the Friday prayers. I have the feeling that the reaction to Trump‘s announcement will not be as severe as many thought.
It's probably too early to tell, but indeed there is little violent response so far.
Which actually is a very very good thing, because extreme violence is never justified.
Now to use the term "depressing" again, it now seems that a lack of extreme violence is percieved as "we don't care".
So, perhaps Trump is smarter than we thought after all. The Palestinians could only lose. They had 2 choices:
- Respond with extreme violence. -> They would be the losers because extreme violence is wrong.
- Respond with hard words and mild violence -> They would be the losers because clearly nobody cares.
I also get the impression that quite a few supporters of Trump's decision are disappointed that there hasn't been more violence so far.
Depressing it is.
bennett123 wrote:Problem with the One State solution is that I understand Palestinians have larger families and will ultimately outnumber the Jews in Israel.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:Or they can imitate art and do what was done in Tom Clancy's book The Sum of All Fears.
tommy1808 wrote:BobPatterson wrote:Dutchy wrote:Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.
In Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, with thousands of people gathering outside of U.S. embassies or consulates. So much winning for the US standing in the world...............
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... ce030070e3
Congrats Dutchy:
"Palestinian leaders called for three days of rage after Trump’s announcement Wednesday. The president’s decision was harshly criticized by Arab and European leaders, who said it risked sparking violence and would make peace more elusive."
Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.
Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.
best regards
Thomas
windy95 wrote:Jerusalem is and will be the capital of Israel so might as well jump on board and deal with.
windy95 wrote:Another correct decision by President Trump. It was a great day watching the UN pee all over itself with this one. Toss this in with pulling out of the UN immigration plan and it was another week of WINNING!!!!
Jerusalem is Israels Capital and is the seat of it's government. About time everyone recognize and deal with it.
tommy1808 wrote:Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.
BobPatterson wrote:tommy1808 wrote:Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.
Condoning rioting because some group is offended?
Precisely what is the blatant violation of international law by the US?
bgm wrote:The problem is that a lot of Americans don't seem to understand the grave long term consequences of this decision.
DIRECTFLT wrote:The Evangelical View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MRZlNWW80
In this special, Gordon Robertson examines the facts behind both the Jewish and Arab claims. Get the answers to the following questions:
Who are the Palestinians?
What are the so-called “1967 borders” of Israel?
Is the West Bank really “occupied territory”?
Do the Jews hold the legal right to the land of Israel?
DVD Bonus Feature: “The Refugees of 1948” looks at the origin of the Palestinian refugee problem and why it remains unsolved almost 70 years later.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.
I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?
windy95 wrote:LOL....This is a cracker, no moral or legal justification to put our embassy in a countries capital? Jerusalem is and will be the capital of Israel so might as well jump on board and deal with.
Making Jerusalem Great Again.
stratosphere wrote:BobPatterson wrote:tommy1808 wrote:Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.
Condoning rioting because some group is offended?
Precisely what is the blatant violation of international law by the US?
Yeah "Tommy" what is the blatant violation of international law here? We are all waiting for an answer.
Aesma wrote:Personally I don't willingly buy something made in Israel. But that's not new, I've done it for more than a decade. I will never go there until there is a solution for the palestinians. I don't vote for politicians who align themselves with the current Israeli government, but fortunately they're rare.
Trump's actions and Israeli actions could expand the reach of the boycott of Israel. Companies and countries may be more and more pushed towards choosing between lucrative markets in the Middle East, and Israel, and Israel will lose.
salttee wrote:Palestine: Arab / Jewish Population (1860 - 1946)
These figures are taken from the historian and demographer, Justin McCarthy with the year 1919 provided by Alfred Lilienthal.
Year. . # of Jews, #of "Arabs". . . Total . . . % Jews
1860 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 411,000
1890 . . 25,000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 553,000
1900. . 25,000 . . . 520,000. . . 545,000. . . 4.587%
1914. . 60,000 . . . 731,000. . . 791,000. . . 7.585%
1918. . 59,000 . . . 688,000. . . 747,000. . . 7.898%
1919. . 65,000 Lilienthal
1922. . 83,790. . . 668,258. . . 752,048. . 11.141%
1931.. 174,606 . . 858,708. . 1,033,314. . 16.897%
1941.. 474,102 . 1,111,398. .1,585,500. . 29.902%
1944.. 554,000 . 1,211,000. .1,765,000. . 31.388%
1946.. 608,225 . 1,237,334. .1,845,559. . 32.956%
In the time frame shown here the Jewish population in the Levant went from 5% to 33% of the population. This was a planned, well organized and quite brutal takeover of a peaceful agrarian society.
salttee wrote:That's a great example of disingenuous propaganda, but what would one expect to find from Pat Robertson's son? This is the kind of crap that the uneducated use to fill the void in their education (and is what would we expect from someone who claims that the world is 4,000 years old).
Let's simplify things by just going back to the time when the European Jewish infiltration of Palestine began: circa 1880. Here's what the population shift looked like from that era.
csavel wrote:It would seem to be the best solution, but alas if it hasn't happened in 70 years might never happen so there will be ceaseless war. Let's be honest, the two state solution is long dead Jerusalem issue or not. The way the settlement blocs are on the West Bank, it is functionally impossible to have a Palestinian state.
csavel wrote:The only true solution is a one state solution, bi-national, bi-lingual, and secular.
salttee wrote:In the time frame shown here the Jewish population in the Levant went from 5% to 33% of the population. This was a planned, well organized and quite brutal takeover of a peaceful agrarian society.
