salttee
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Israel can pick a reasonable depth to make it safe.

Israel wouldn't approve such a tunnel unless it went deep enough to reach the molten core.

Seriously, your idea is a non sequitur. If you find the joke entertaining you'd best just keep it to yourself, it's not really funny.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 pm

Image

By Norwegian newspaper illustrator Finn Graff and Dagbladet
 
Jalap
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:00 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.

In Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, with thousands of people gathering outside of U.S. embassies or consulates. So much winning for the US standing in the world...............

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... ce030070e3

Congrats Dutchy:

"Palestinian leaders called for three days of rage after Trump’s announcement Wednesday. The president’s decision was harshly criticized by Arab and European leaders, who said it risked sparking violence and would make peace more elusive."

Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.


I fail to see the point in this post. Three days of rage would be a very very mild repsonse.
Your friend, Mr.Trump, has no respect for anybody but Mr.Trump himself or the people giving him money.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 am

Well, a war may just be the medicine the doctor ordered to reduce the opposition to Trump at home and boost his ratings. So this strategy does make sense from that angle.

Think of the troops people!
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:18 am

Dutchy wrote:
Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.


BobPatterson wrote:
Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.


Please, we all know who is to blame for all of this: Hillary Clinton because of her emails and Benghazi, and her failed tenure as Obama's SoS (so include him as well). And throw in Bill Clinton while you're at it, because NAFTA and jobs.

SAD!
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:47 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Is Jewish even a race? I've met black jews from Somalia and ethnically Arab jews from the middles east along with lilly white European jews and then there's American jews like Doc, clearly they are all ethnically different.


There are three current Jewish ethnicities (I use that term because "Jewish race" a) raises the specter of Nazism and b) I'm White...but I understand what you're getting at).

There are Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Ethiopian Jews. We all look a bit different (the Ethiopian Jews look very different). We have different religious rules (until recently Ashkenazim could not have corn during Pesah [Passover], while Sephardim could), different cultural practices, and different cuisines.
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seb146
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:48 am

I find the timing of this suspect, as well. He could have done this six months ago, because this comes up every six months. Why now? Duh... Christmas.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:56 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Please, we all know who is to blame for all of this: Hillary Clinton because of her emails and Benghazi, and her failed tenure as Obama's SoS (so include him as well). And throw in Bill Clinton while you're at it, because NAFTA and jobs.

SAD!


I am sure Madame sHillary is guilty of many crimes - but I dont think she can be blamed for this Israel business. Of all the players, she has had the unique distinction of having been directly/indirectly engaged with Israel for the longest time - over 35 years - and we can safely say that she is certainly among the best friends Israel has in the Washington Establishment. This current "crisis" is the creation of the new cabal around Trump.

Ofcourse, sHillary's biggest crime here is that she pulled all the dirty tricks from her bag of potions to beat her rival in 2016 - that nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn. :roll:
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:41 am

Hmm. A stray thought just entered my mind. If the rise in Middle East tensions caused by Trump's latest move leads to increased oil prices, then Russia stands to gain significantly. They have been the worst hit by the tragic fall in global oil prices.

This investment in Trump election might just pay off after all! :stirthepot:

But we need something else to happen in the region along with this for this to really work. Any country suitable for America to invade? How about Yemen? Or a small shooting war in the Hormuz Straits to needle Iran?
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:28 am

moo wrote:
Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -


nope, humans don´t have races, period.

Yup, it's a bit confusing.


mostly it is wrong.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:33 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.

In Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, with thousands of people gathering outside of U.S. embassies or consulates. So much winning for the US standing in the world...............

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... ce030070e3

Congrats Dutchy:

"Palestinian leaders called for three days of rage after Trump’s announcement Wednesday. The president’s decision was harshly criticized by Arab and European leaders, who said it risked sparking violence and would make peace more elusive."

Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.


Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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moo
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:41 am

tommy1808 wrote:
moo wrote:
Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -


nope, humans don´t have races, period.

Yup, it's a bit confusing.


mostly it is wrong.

best regards
Thomas


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaahahahaahahahaahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahaahahahhahahahahahaahhahaahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaha

That's the best joke I've heard all year, you should *really* do standup.
 
salttee
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:41 am

tommy1808 wrote:
moo wrote:
Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -

nope, humans don´t have races, period.
And if humans did have races, the Jewish population would straddle several of them.
moo wrote:
Yup, it's a bit confusing.
Trying to align nonsense with reality is often confusing.
 
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moo
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:42 am

salttee wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
moo wrote:
Yes, Jewish is a race, and a religion separately -

nope, humans don´t have races, period.
And if humans did have races, the Jewish population would straddle several of them.
moo wrote:
Yup, it's a bit confusing.
Trying to align nonsense with reality is often confusing.


Ooh, a sock puppet account identified!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:47 am

moo wrote:
That's the best joke I've heard all year, you should *really* do standup.


so i guess in your world a black, a white, a brown and a yellow Labrador dog are different races too?

Mankinds DNA is less diverse than that of a Labrador dogs.

Any use of "race" in any other but colloquial way when it comes to humans is simply bullsh*t.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:57 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The PLO does not want and does not seek a two-state solution.

Niether does Likud.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The PLO wants a one-state solution -- for them.

Just like Likud.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
And a no-state solution for Israel in the Middle East.

Just as Likud wants a no-state solution for the Palestinians.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:48 am

I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.

I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?
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WIederling
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:08 am

DocLightning wrote:
There are Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and Ethiopian Jews.


Ten ( of Twelve) lost Tribes of Israel

Do the genetic traces actually meet up some where back in the past _before_ the genetic keyhole event ( a very small population group ) that appears to be common to all humans outside of Africa?
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:11 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.

I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?


Monotheisms really have a major issue with sharing a common god in absentia. unending strife over which janitor has final say.
Murphy is an optimist
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:13 am

salttee wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Israel can pick a reasonable depth to make it safe.

Israel wouldn't approve such a tunnel unless it went deep enough to reach the molten core.

Seriously, your idea is a non sequitur. If you find the joke entertaining you'd best just keep it to yourself, it's not really funny.


Do you have any serious ideas which allow unrestricted movement between Westbank and Gaza, at the same time allow relative safety to Israelis?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:01 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Please, we all know who is to blame for all of this: Hillary Clinton because of her emails and Benghazi, and her failed tenure as Obama's SoS (so include him as well). And throw in Bill Clinton while you're at it, because NAFTA and jobs.

SAD!


I am sure Madame sHillary is guilty of many crimes - but I dont think she can be blamed for this Israel business. Of all the players, she has had the unique distinction of having been directly/indirectly engaged with Israel for the longest time - over 35 years - and we can safely say that she is certainly among the best friends Israel has in the Washington Establishment. This current "crisis" is the creation of the new cabal around Trump.

Ofcourse, sHillary's biggest crime here is that she pulled all the dirty tricks from her bag of potions to beat her rival in 2016 - that nice Jewish boy from Brooklyn. :roll:

Image
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
stratosphere
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:20 pm

bgm wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
This reminds me something Barry Goldwater once said. "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

IMO this just shows who is really running the show, Pence.

And VP Pence will be happy to run things as President for 7 years or so, through 2024, if you guys want Trump out of the way so bad. :lol:

einsteinboricua wrote:
I REALLY don't understand the Republican obsession with Israel. Let's further destabilize the region by making a very unpopular move that will do nothing except boost egos in the US.

The question being asked in the West Wing is not whether this will destabilize the region, but more like "was Obama in favor of a two state solution? Yes? Then we're against it and are for a single Jewish state".

I doubt that. The move is eagerly and fully supported by Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. So go and ask Sen. Schumer why he supports an action that would "further destabilize the region by making a very unpopular move that will do nothing except boost egos in the US."

“As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the US Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem."

Schumer said the move would "appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem’s reunification and show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... ls-capital


You just cannot see beyond your partisan blinkers, can you? Doesn't matter who thinks it's a good idea, the fact is that it's not. It accomplishes nothing, except to destabilize the region and obliterates any hope of peace.


Peace? The Arabs and Islam do not want peace every president has been placating to the Arab world for a long time and where has it gotten us? Not a big fan of Israel but I could care less if we piss off the ME it's not like they were our friends anyway plenty of terrorists were already hating on us finally glad to see a president who is willing to give the finger to them unlike Obama going around on his America apology tour where did that get us?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:30 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
Hmm. A stray thought just entered my mind. If the rise in Middle East tensions caused by Trump's latest move leads to increased oil prices, then Russia stands to gain significantly. They have been the worst hit by the tragic fall in global oil prices.

This investment in Trump election might just pay off after all! :stirthepot:

But we need something else to happen in the region along with this for this to really work. Any country suitable for America to invade? How about Yemen? Or a small shooting war in the Hormuz Straits to needle Iran?


Most of the military actions get started when there is a huge pile of weapons reaching end-of-shelf-life. Clinton's raid on UBL camp. Isreali fight with Hamas. Trump's Syria airport raid. There are several other examples. There will be no stated goal to achieve, just why waste money on refurbishing those weapons. The issue with this approach is scope creep.

Trump doesn't need to go to war. He can just tweet.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Peace? The Arabs and Islam do not want peace every president has been placating to the Arab world for a long time and where has it gotten us?
Placating to Israel hasn't gotten us any further either. Your point?

stratosphere wrote:
Not a big fan of Israel but I could care less if we piss off the ME it's not like they were our friends anyway plenty of terrorists were already hating on us finally glad to see a president who is willing to give the finger to them
Until oil spikes because OPEC decides to cut shipments to the world. Not even fracking will help with the impact of a sudden spike.

stratosphere wrote:
unlike Obama going around on his America apology tour where did that get us?
I keep hearing about this apology tour yet never see evidence for it. Why is that? Oh that's right.

BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED!
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Eyad89
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:45 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.

I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?



Arabs want all the land for themselves, and they want to call it Palestine, while jews want all the land for themselves, and they want to call it Israel. I wish if it was that simple. Arabs have lived there for the past 2000 years and they want to stay there, while jews showed up out of nowhere some decades ago to claim it as their rightful land.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:02 pm

Eyad89 wrote:
Arabs want all the land for themselves, and they want to call it Palestine, while jews want all the land for themselves, and they want to call it Israel. I wish if it was that simple. Arabs have lived there for the past 2000 years and they want to stay there, while jews showed up out of nowhere some decades ago to claim it as their rightful land.

You'll find people who will defend Israel's stance by saying that the kingdom of Israel had been there long before it was conquered by Arabs and that as such, Israel has sole claim to the land.

Then you bring up an example of ceding land that used to be Mexican back to Mexico because the US occupied it after a war, and the "apples to oranges" argument comes into play.

Bottom line is that if it weren't for a book with no known author, this would be a nonissue: no side would claim Jerusalem as a holy city.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:14 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
You'll find people who will defend Israel's stance by saying that the kingdom of Israel had been there long before it was conquered by Arabs and that as such, Israel has sole claim to the land..


But then there is written proof that Gods chosen people got to this land by committing genocide to remove the indigenous people, which would kinda takes the claim away. If Israel chooses to see itself as the legal legal successor of those Kingdoms doing the mass killing, first item on the agenda should be restitution of a damage, if they don´t, that claim is non-existent as well.

Scripture can be used both ways.... (Of course it is nonsense, the only evidence of King David is a Syrian document about a King David getting his ass kicked, there where no patriarchs, no exodus and people probably always lived in that area with fairly limited in- and outflows until the end of World War II).

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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mercure1
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:20 pm

So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?

At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:07 pm

mercure1 wrote:
So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?

At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.

I also expected some more reactions others than the usual riots after the Friday prayers. I have the feeling that the reaction to Trump‘s announcement will not be as severe as many thought.
 
salttee
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:16 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Do you have any serious ideas which allow unrestricted movement between Westbank and Gaza, at the same time allow relative safety to Israelis?
A highway flyover would join the two locations so that the Pals wouldn't have to go through an Israeli checkpoint. The Israelis already have all the safety they want, they are perfectly happy to lose a few people a year in order to keep the option of a greater Israel alive. The Zionists (who run the country) don't want a "solution".
 
Jalap
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm

N14AZ wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?

At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.

I also expected some more reactions others than the usual riots after the Friday prayers. I have the feeling that the reaction to Trump‘s announcement will not be as severe as many thought.

It's probably too early to tell, but indeed there is little violent response so far.
Which actually is a very very good thing, because extreme violence is never justified.

Now to use the term "depressing" again, it now seems that a lack of extreme violence is percieved as "we don't care".

So, perhaps Trump is smarter than we thought after all. The Palestinians could only lose. They had 2 choices:
- Respond with extreme violence. -> They would be the losers because extreme violence is wrong.
- Respond with hard words and mild violence -> They would be the losers because clearly nobody cares.

I also get the impression that quite a few supporters of Trump's decision are disappointed that there hasn't been more violence so far.

Depressing it is.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:28 am

Jalap wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
So 3 days have passed. Has anyone done anything? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, EU, Russia.. anyone?

At the end no one cares about Palestinians. Nations offer them a little lip service, but at the end, the issue does not rank very high in importance.

I also expected some more reactions others than the usual riots after the Friday prayers. I have the feeling that the reaction to Trump‘s announcement will not be as severe as many thought.

It's probably too early to tell, but indeed there is little violent response so far.
Which actually is a very very good thing, because extreme violence is never justified.

Now to use the term "depressing" again, it now seems that a lack of extreme violence is percieved as "we don't care".

So, perhaps Trump is smarter than we thought after all. The Palestinians could only lose. They had 2 choices:
- Respond with extreme violence. -> They would be the losers because extreme violence is wrong.
- Respond with hard words and mild violence -> They would be the losers because clearly nobody cares.

I also get the impression that quite a few supporters of Trump's decision are disappointed that there hasn't been more violence so far.

Depressing it is.


It takes time to arrange things so who knows what will happen in the next few days.

Or they can imitate art and do what was done in Tom Clancy's book The Sum of All Fears.
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zkojq
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:29 am

bennett123 wrote:
Problem with the One State solution is that I understand Palestinians have larger families and will ultimately outnumber the Jews in Israel.


Exactly and this is why the smarter Israelis (who want Israel to be a "Jewish" state) support the two state solution. Of course, a lot of Israelis seem to want the issue addressed by driving the Palestinians off their land and into Jordanian refugee camps (so that they're now Jordan's problem and so that Israel can remain Jewish).
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WIederling
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:34 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Or they can imitate art and do what was done in Tom Clancy's book The Sum of All Fears.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_se ... 81_and_194

Has the Vatican Mirror solution ever been retracted?
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Aesma
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:59 pm

Personally I don't willingly buy something made in Israel. But that's not new, I've done it for more than a decade. I will never go there until there is a solution for the palestinians. I don't vote for politicians who align themselves with the current Israeli government, but fortunately they're rare.

Trump's actions and Israeli actions could expand the reach of the boycott of Israel. Companies and countries may be more and more pushed towards choosing between lucrative markets in the Middle East, and Israel, and Israel will lose.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
windy95
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:21 pm

Another correct decision by President Trump. It was a great day watching the UN pee all over itself with this one. Toss this in with pulling out of the UN immigration plan and it was another week of WINNING!!!!
Jerusalem is Israels Capital and is the seat of it's government. About time everyone recognize and deal with it.
 
windy95
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:28 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Congrats Trump: 31 people were injured.

In Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, with thousands of people gathering outside of U.S. embassies or consulates. So much winning for the US standing in the world...............

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/is ... ce030070e3

Congrats Dutchy:

"Palestinian leaders called for three days of rage after Trump’s announcement Wednesday. The president’s decision was harshly criticized by Arab and European leaders, who said it risked sparking violence and would make peace more elusive."

Your friends are fine people. Blame Mr. Trump.


Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.

best regards
Thomas


LOL....This is a cracker, no moral or legal justification to put our embassy in a countries capital? Jerusalem is and will be the capital of Israel so might as well jump on board and deal with.

Making Jerusalem Great Again.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:32 pm

windy95 wrote:
Jerusalem is and will be the capital of Israel so might as well jump on board and deal with.


Pssst, that is what they have been kind of a raw over the last 70 odd years.

Quick refresher course for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:37 pm

windy95 wrote:
Another correct decision by President Trump. It was a great day watching the UN pee all over itself with this one. Toss this in with pulling out of the UN immigration plan and it was another week of WINNING!!!!
Jerusalem is Israels Capital and is the seat of it's government. About time everyone recognize and deal with it.



The US wants everyone else to follow international law and UN desiscions, just not Israel and the USA .... Different rules that apply apparently and the US expect everyone to accept it ... Sadly this is what the US has become known for and why fewer and fewer people around the world look at the USA as a leader of nations: The double standards, the lack of moral, the superficial view of the world and of themselves, the lame reasonings, childishness, lack of consequence thinking, knee jerk reactions and over bloated ego.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.

Condoning rioting because some group is offended?

Precisely what is the blatant violation of international law by the US?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:30 am

BobPatterson wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.

Condoning rioting because some group is offended?

Precisely what is the blatant violation of international law by the US?


Yeah "Tommy" what is the blatant violation of international law here? We are all waiting for an answer.
 
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bgm
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:55 am

The problem is that a lot of Americans don't seem to understand the grave long term consequences of this decision.

Ultimately, it will weaken and further isolate the US. Allies giving the cold shoulder, and enemies with even more motivation to attack.

Moscow must be rubbing their hands with glee.
"When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat." -George Carlin
 
salttee
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:41 pm

bgm wrote:
The problem is that a lot of Americans don't seem to understand the grave long term consequences of this decision.

Most Americans don't understand the past, current and future costs of supporting Zionist expansion into other people's land. This is an Israeli and American policy doomed to failure which is driven by religious zealots. It's hard to understand why the Jewish people have repeatedly allowed their fringe extremists to declare policy for all Jews, but for the nation of the United States to put its future and national security on the line to support this Jewish folly is completely inexplicable.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:39 am

The Evangelical View:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MRZlNWW80

In this special, Gordon Robertson examines the facts behind both the Jewish and Arab claims. Get the answers to the following questions:

Who are the Palestinians?
What are the so-called “1967 borders” of Israel?
Is the West Bank really “occupied territory”?
Do the Jews hold the legal right to the land of Israel?

DVD Bonus Feature: “The Refugees of 1948” looks at the origin of the Palestinian refugee problem and why it remains unsolved almost 70 years later.
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salttee
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:00 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Evangelical View:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MRZlNWW80

In this special, Gordon Robertson examines the facts behind both the Jewish and Arab claims. Get the answers to the following questions:

Who are the Palestinians?
What are the so-called “1967 borders” of Israel?
Is the West Bank really “occupied territory”?
Do the Jews hold the legal right to the land of Israel?

DVD Bonus Feature: “The Refugees of 1948” looks at the origin of the Palestinian refugee problem and why it remains unsolved almost 70 years later.

That's a great example of disingenuous propaganda, but what would one expect to find from Pat Robertson's son? This is the kind of crap that the uneducated use to fill the void in their education (and is what would we expect from someone who claims that the world is 4,000 years old).

Let's simplify things by just going back to the time when the European Jewish infiltration of Palestine began: circa 1880. Here's what the population shift looked like from that era.
Palestine: Arab / Jewish Population (1860 - 1946)
These figures are taken from the historian and demographer, Justin McCarthy with the year 1919 provided by Alfred Lilienthal.

Year. . # of Jews, #of "Arabs". . . Total . . . % Jews
1860 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 411,000
1890 . . 25,000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 553,000
1900. . 25,000 . . . 520,000. . . 545,000. . . 4.587%
1914. . 60,000 . . . 731,000. . . 791,000. . . 7.585%
1918. . 59,000 . . . 688,000. . . 747,000. . . 7.898%
1919. . 65,000 Lilienthal
1922. . 83,790. . . 668,258. . . 752,048. . 11.141%
1931.. 174,606 . . 858,708. . 1,033,314. . 16.897%
1941.. 474,102 . 1,111,398. .1,585,500. . 29.902%
1944.. 554,000 . 1,211,000. .1,765,000. . 31.388%
1946.. 608,225 . 1,237,334. .1,845,559. . 32.956%

In the time frame shown here the Jewish population in the Levant went from 5% to 33% of the population. This was a planned, well organized and quite brutal takeover of a peaceful agrarian society.
 
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:18 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I just don't know why the Israeli Jews & the Palestinian Arabs can't just share custody of the entire land with each other. Both sides are equally to blame for being at loggerheads for over 70 years now.

I mean, they're worshipping the same God for God's sake! Why can't they find the similarities between each other and just live peacefully?


It would seem to be the best solution, but alas if it hasn't happened in 70 years might never happen so there will be ceaseless war. Let's be honest, the two state solution is long dead Jerusalem issue or not. The way the settlement blocs are on the West Bank, it is functionally impossible to have a Palestinian state. The only true solution is a one state solution, bi-national, bi-lingual, and secular.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:01 am

windy95 wrote:
LOL....This is a cracker, no moral or legal justification to put our embassy in a countries capital? Jerusalem is and will be the capital of Israel so might as well jump on board and deal with.

Making Jerusalem Great Again.


and as always Trump does serve Russia´s and China´s interest, who both have (Crimea) or may (Taiwan) annex occupied territory and would seriously like to see a way to get that internationally recognized.

stratosphere wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Those people have the right to be outraged at the blatant violation of international law by the US, while the US has zero legal or moral justification to move its embassy.

Condoning rioting because some group is offended?

Precisely what is the blatant violation of international law by the US?


Yeah "Tommy" what is the blatant violation of international law here? We are all waiting for an answer.


Among normal fully fledged nations this is sufficient grounds to go to war over, you know, the whole Article 51 of the UN Charta bit.

International law since the end of World War two has been that no one can ever annex occupied territory. Legally Jerusalem, all of it, is an international city, see UN Resolution Resolutions 181 and 194, further more UN Member nations are required to remove their embassies from Jerusalem by Resolution 478. The International Court of Justice affirmed that East Jerusalem is not Israeli territory in 2004.

The United States joined the ranks of North Korea in terms of being law abiding. Welcome to the axis of evil.

Aesma wrote:
Personally I don't willingly buy something made in Israel. But that's not new, I've done it for more than a decade. I will never go there until there is a solution for the palestinians. I don't vote for politicians who align themselves with the current Israeli government, but fortunately they're rare.

Trump's actions and Israeli actions could expand the reach of the boycott of Israel. Companies and countries may be more and more pushed towards choosing between lucrative markets in the Middle East, and Israel, and Israel will lose.


Well, since the last time Israel showed respect for international law, or lack thereof, the EU increased sanction by not allowing products made in occupied territory to be imported tariff free into the European Union or being marked as "Made in Israel". I wouldn´t be surprised if companies in Jerusalem will find themselves outside the free trade area with the EU in short order if they let the US move heir embassy.

Strategie is clear, with this move Trump can repay Russia for making him president and pander to the Christian Taliban that put him in the white house.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:07 am

salttee wrote:
Palestine: Arab / Jewish Population (1860 - 1946)
These figures are taken from the historian and demographer, Justin McCarthy with the year 1919 provided by Alfred Lilienthal.

Year. . # of Jews, #of "Arabs". . . Total . . . % Jews
1860 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 411,000
1890 . . 25,000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 553,000
1900. . 25,000 . . . 520,000. . . 545,000. . . 4.587%
1914. . 60,000 . . . 731,000. . . 791,000. . . 7.585%
1918. . 59,000 . . . 688,000. . . 747,000. . . 7.898%
1919. . 65,000 Lilienthal
1922. . 83,790. . . 668,258. . . 752,048. . 11.141%
1931.. 174,606 . . 858,708. . 1,033,314. . 16.897%
1941.. 474,102 . 1,111,398. .1,585,500. . 29.902%
1944.. 554,000 . 1,211,000. .1,765,000. . 31.388%
1946.. 608,225 . 1,237,334. .1,845,559. . 32.956%

In the time frame shown here the Jewish population in the Levant went from 5% to 33% of the population. This was a planned, well organized and quite brutal takeover of a peaceful agrarian society.


Yes, but the Israelis are trying to edit this history, because the central tenant of Zionism is that the holy land is "a land without people'. Of course, one's average West Bank settler does view Palestinians as sub-human, but that's not really the point.
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 am

salttee wrote:
That's a great example of disingenuous propaganda, but what would one expect to find from Pat Robertson's son? This is the kind of crap that the uneducated use to fill the void in their education (and is what would we expect from someone who claims that the world is 4,000 years old).

Let's simplify things by just going back to the time when the European Jewish infiltration of Palestine began: circa 1880. Here's what the population shift looked like from that era.


I actually feel very sorry for people who believe stuff like this. Amazing that in this day and age people lack the critical thinking skills to the extent that they take such information as objective and unbiased. An ex's mother is just like that; randomly gave $7,000 to some West Bank settlement project. Can she afford it? No. Why did she do it? Because some televangelist said it was a good idea. :banghead:

csavel wrote:
It would seem to be the best solution, but alas if it hasn't happened in 70 years might never happen so there will be ceaseless war. Let's be honest, the two state solution is long dead Jerusalem issue or not. The way the settlement blocs are on the West Bank, it is functionally impossible to have a Palestinian state.

Why should settlers, who have moved to contested WestBank land from thousands of kilometres away, be allowed to keep their settlements?


csavel wrote:
The only true solution is a one state solution, bi-national, bi-lingual, and secular.

Yes, and it will be Palestinian majority within 50 years. Poetic justice, I guess. :lol:
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Re: Trump about to further destabilize the Middle East?

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:34 pm

salttee wrote:
In the time frame shown here the Jewish population in the Levant went from 5% to 33% of the population. This was a planned, well organized and quite brutal takeover of a peaceful agrarian society.



On the numbers: Afaik there always was a small ( mostly orthodox ) jewish population around in the region. unendangered.

Zionism is a form of Nationalism for the Jewish. Same time frame same motivations.
The times then were rather "expansive".
But the characters that Zionism brought to the region were a completely different kind of people.
( not much seems to be left over from early often socialisty upstarts, the backbone of the Kibbutz culture.
do they still exist? Most of the ( heavily alimented settlers today appear to be orthodox scripture beating squatters? )
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