NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 11331
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:38 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Just as you will never stop lying about my praising Mr. Trump. There is no person posting in this forum who had been more adamant than I have been about the need for Mr. Trump's removal.

And you know that, yet continue to lie about it. Why?


I know like I am from New Zealand. You see he doesn't want to have a conversation. To do so would mean to work together. He doesn't want that. If you read his posts you can see how partisan he is. He can't understand and doesn't want to understand how the middle thinks. How the independents think etc. It's why he can't understand how Trump got in office unless he is calling people bigots and racists. It's why he should be ignored.
tommy1808 wrote:

only about 25% of the US electorate voted for Trump. And i didn´t generalize they are all lunatics or rape supporters. Some may just have been stupid and got honestly dooped.


 
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casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I predict none.


well, some Billionaire with brains could just buy a couple of "no" votes, after all that is where the "yes" votes came from as well. There are members of rapists united admitting as much after all.

best regards
Thomas
Why would a billionaire want to buy "no" vote? They (or their heirs) will most likely make out like bandits.


There is an assumption that some of them are smart and have a concience about what will happen with these cuts. Basically the deficits will get so large and the economy will tank , which will make their tax breaks a moot point.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:12 am

cledaybuck wrote:
Why would a billionaire want to buy "no" vote? They (or their heirs) will most likely make out like bandits.


they don´t want to be dragged out of their bedrooms by an angry mob and be hanged in their garden? Maybe they are simply humanists? Maybe they understand that paying low taxes ain´t sustainable and hence a long term threat to their families riches?

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

well, some Billionaire with brains could just buy a couple of "no" votes, after all that is where the "yes" votes came from as well. There are members of rapists united admitting as much after all.

best regards
Thomas
Why would a billionaire want to buy "no" vote? They (or their heirs) will most likely make out like bandits.


There is an assumption that some of them are smart and have a concience about what will happen with these cuts. Basically the deficits will get so large and the economy will tank , which will make their tax breaks a moot point.

tommy1808 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Why would a billionaire want to buy "no" vote? They (or their heirs) will most likely make out like bandits.


they don´t want to be dragged out of their bedrooms by an angry mob and be hanged in their garden? Maybe they are simply humanists? Maybe they understand that paying low taxes ain´t sustainable and hence a long term threat to their families riches?

best regards
Thomas
You guys are hilarious. Dragged out of their bedrooms, ha! I think you mean to say sexually assault women and get elected president of the United States.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
You guys are hilarious. Dragged out of their bedrooms, ha! I think you mean to say sexually assault women and get elected president of the United States.


Check the French or Russian revolution if you want to know what happens if you do the whole "poor working to keep the rich rich" kind of system too long....

Poor people shouldn´t waste their money on booze and women (...mm..aren´t women people too??? Apparently not for racist united.... ) is fairly close to "let them eat cake".

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:54 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
You guys are hilarious. Dragged out of their bedrooms, ha! I think you mean to say sexually assault women and get elected president of the United States.


Check the French or Russian revolution if you want to know what happens if you do the whole "poor working to keep the rich rich" kind of system too long....

Poor people shouldn´t waste their money on booze and women (...mm..aren´t women people too??? Apparently not for racist united.... ) is fairly close to "let them eat cake".

best regards
Thomas
We have been running (or trying to run) trickle down for over 30 years and the white poor are flocking to it in the voting both.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:16 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
You guys are hilarious. Dragged out of their bedrooms, ha! I think you mean to say sexually assault women and get elected president of the United States.


Check the French or Russian revolution if you want to know what happens if you do the whole "poor working to keep the rich rich" kind of system too long....

Poor people shouldn´t waste their money on booze and women (...mm..aren´t women people too??? Apparently not for racist united.... ) is fairly close to "let them eat cake".

best regards
Thomas
We have been running (or trying to run) trickle down for over 30 years and the white poor are flocking to it in the voting both.


Because the white poor voters are being told over and over again by Republicans that white poor people will benefit the most from trickle down. Not to worry, though. As long as states like California and Massachusetts and New York have money, states like Alabama and Kansas can keep reaping the benefits!
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
Ken777
Posts: 9449
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:03 am

BobPatterson wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Tuition waivers are taxed. Those are way different. Tuition waivers are largely granted to graduate students on the condition that they perform work for a university (TA, lab techs, etc.). That is plainly compensation and should be taxed.

Tuition waivers are the equivalent of scholarships. Money the student does not have to pay to get an education. Many students work in cafeterias or other menial jobs in partial return for scholarships.

Lab work is a necessary part of rigorous training in a discipline. It costs a lot of money to equip and maintain labs and keep them supplied with consumables. Federal grants (it seems to me) in support of training labs is a fine thing.


DfwRevolution wrote:
Wrong. The estate tax is assessed against assets not income. You could have zero income tax liability in the year you die, but you could still owe estate tax on the value of your assets. Just ask the IRS:

If the estate tax is asset based, then the tax would apply only on the increase in asset value after the asset was initially acquired by the estate (just as when someone trades in stocks and bonds). Correct me if I am wrong in this, but I think estate taxes are computed on the entire value of the estate. There is a healthy dose of double taxation in that case.

Let me give one example. My estate includes an automobile that I purchased for $20,000 (with my after-tax money, and after paying all taxes on the vehicle). My son, while settling my estate, sells that car for its current depreciated value of $10,000. The new owner pays all taxes on that resale transaction.

Now, you want my estate to pay taxes all over again on the $10,000 residual value of my car?


If you have an estate over $5.5 million your $10,000 car will be in hte minimus category if you don't pass title before you pass.

At the state level I had to make a list with estimated values, including Dad's house. Oklahoma Tax Agent looked at the house and upped the value $10K. Total estate paid was about $200. Obviously Dad was not a millionaire!

With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,
 
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casinterest
Posts: 5891
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Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:07 pm

The school that Trump graduated from has even said the tax cuts will not pay for themselves.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/36441 ... for-itself
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
The school that Trump graduated from has even said the tax cuts will not pay for themselves.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/36441 ... for-itself


Is there any school that doesn´t come to the same conclusion?

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:23 pm

As long as Nikky V, DirectFLT, and DFWRevolution get willfully poorer and say “Again, please” you can sign me up for this great experiment.

(Oh wait, they’ll just blame somebody else when it inevitably doesn’t work out won’t they? Wasn’t “cutty” enough.)
 
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casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:19 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The school that Trump graduated from has even said the tax cuts will not pay for themselves.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/36441 ... for-itself


Is there any school that doesn´t come to the same conclusion?

best regards
Thomas


School of Howey, Cheatem, and Rich
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Ken777
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Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:33 pm

jetero wrote:
As long as Nikky V, DirectFLT, and DFWRevolution get willfully poorer and say “Again, please” you can sign me up for this great experiment.


Unless they are already a multi millionaire they are going to see their wealth diminish as they near retirement - especially with the shafts that a the GOP has for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid early next year. I have Medicare AND pay for the top Supplement (Plan F) and consider it the best health insurance you can get. Fan better than the private alternative of Medicare Advantage.

If you have private health insurance then you can look to significant increases as more and more people get kicked off of Medicaid. Employers will make dramatic cuts to hold down costs so you can get out your checkbook. Even with insurance younger people can look forward to medical costs 2 or 3 times more expensive than today. - unless the GOP stops playing kissy-kissy with the insurance and Pharma industries.
 
MaverickM11
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:43 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Mitch.."We have the votes"
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... ag-n825591

Glad one of the core promises is on it's way to becoming reality. It is about time.


Loving how CNN's Erin Burnett's head is exploding as she runs with the rich hating diatribe.

Sherrod Brown also trying to exploit the we have no time to read it we don't know what is in the bill. Oh well like Nancy Pelosi said "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it."

Congress sausage making is never pretty but I am glad we are getting down to real business.

Winning!

Wait a second...you live in NY and you think you'll benefit from the tax scam? :rotfl: Do you live with your parents?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:36 am

casinterest wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The school that Trump graduated from has even said the tax cuts will not pay for themselves.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/36441 ... for-itself


Is there any school that doesn´t come to the same conclusion?

best regards
Thomas


School of Howey,


cool.. bartending school :D

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 11331
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:04 pm

Deal struck in senate. Getting close to a real legislative win!

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... lan-294972
tommy1808 wrote:

only about 25% of the US electorate voted for Trump. And i didn´t generalize they are all lunatics or rape supporters. Some may just have been stupid and got honestly dooped.


 
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casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Deal struck in senate. Getting close to a real legislative win!

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... lan-294972


Can't wait to see this fall on it's face. The GOP is working hard to lose in 2018 and 2020. I bet they will lose 3 GOP senators on this POC.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:19 pm

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Deal struck in senate. Getting close to a real legislative win!

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... lan-294972


Can't wait to see this fall on it's face. The GOP is working hard to lose in 2018 and 2020. I bet they will lose 3 GOP senators on this POC.


"We will not just repeal the GOP tax gift to the rich, we will implement a new tax reform that will get every penny back from those that brided the corrupt Republican party into betraying the people of America. We will make taxes fair again."

I guess attack adds are going to be fun next year.

Any R Senator on a shacky seat? Are they really all that reliable going to fall into their swords?

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 11331
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:29 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.


Not as good as "Spolier Alert. Hillary won" but classy. :wave:
tommy1808 wrote:

only about 25% of the US electorate voted for Trump. And i didn´t generalize they are all lunatics or rape supporters. Some may just have been stupid and got honestly dooped.


 
Ken777
Posts: 9449
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:14 pm

casinterest wrote:

Can't wait to see this fall on it's face. The GOP is working hard to lose in 2018 and 2020. I bet they will lose 3 GOP senators on this POC.


A couple of GOP Senators might also cross the aisle over this. Start with Senator Flake, and maybe Senator Collins. The reason for the switch will be Trump and his wealthy friend's excessive greed. That greed will show average Americans just how much Trump & his buddies.were lying.
 
apodino
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:26 pm

Tax Reform is something this country desperately needs. One of the big problems is you have a 10,000 page tax code that no one understands, and because of it Corporations and the Wealthiest people among us can hire lawyers to avoid most of it, leaving the middle class on the hook. I think the bill is a step in the right direction and I know I will benefit big time from it as I am looking at a significantly lower personal tax under this bill than the status quo. However, instead of completely gutting the tax code and making in only a few pages long, the special interests have been hard at work and unfortunately have gotten their wishes in a lot of ways. I believe these people have close relationships with Senators like Murkowski and Collins and that gives them enormous leverage. The big issue though is 6,243 lobbyists alone have worked on influencing this bill. That is a staggering number. And it is this type of swamp that many on both sides of the aisle would like to see done away with.

If you ever want to know why people hate DC so much, this article about the Lobbyists work on this bill will illustrate why. And look at the corporations involved.
https://www.newsmax.com/us/congress-pharmaceuticals-reform/2017/12/12/id/831387/
 
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casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:55 pm

apodino wrote:
Tax Reform is something this country desperately needs. One of the big problems is you have a 10,000 page tax code that no one understands, and because of it Corporations and the Wealthiest people among us can hire lawyers to avoid most of it, leaving the middle class on the hook. I think the bill is a step in the right direction and I know I will benefit big time from it as I am looking at a significantly lower personal tax under this bill than the status quo. However, instead of completely gutting the tax code and making in only a few pages long, the special interests have been hard at work and unfortunately have gotten their wishes in a lot of ways. I believe these people have close relationships with Senators like Murkowski and Collins and that gives them enormous leverage. The big issue though is 6,243 lobbyists alone have worked on influencing this bill. That is a staggering number. And it is this type of swamp that many on both sides of the aisle would like to see done away with.

If you ever want to know why people hate DC so much, this article about the Lobbyists work on this bill will illustrate why. And look at the corporations involved.
https://www.newsmax.com/us/congress-pharmaceuticals-reform/2017/12/12/id/831387/

Of course you should be better off.
Everyone should benefit from the Tax plan. It is a 1.5 Trillion dollar credit deficit invoked by cowards that can't pay down the National debt as a time when the economy is booming.

The fact that some won't benefit from this Tax plan is due to the fact that the Republican party has once again gamed the system for the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class.

This bill is nothing decent, nothing intelligent, and really poorly designed. It will cause massive inflation, and keep the national deficit sky high when the Micky Mouse growth estimates do not materialize.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Boston92
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:50 am

Liberalism. Help us find a cure.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:33 am

casinterest wrote:
Everyone should benefit from the Tax plan. It is a 1.5 Trillion dollar credit deficit invoked by cowards that can't pay down the National debt as a time when the economy is booming.


The tax reform package leaves forcasted revenues well within their historical norms as a percent of GDP. Revenues are not the problem. Spending is the problem. And spending cuts are coming up next.

casinterest wrote:
The fact that some won't benefit from this Tax plan is due to the fact that the Republican party has once again gamed the system for the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class.


A blatant misrepresentation.

casinterest wrote:
This bill is nothing decent, nothing intelligent, and really poorly designed. It will cause massive inflation, and keep the national deficit sky high when the Micky Mouse growth estimates do not materialize.


Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
jetero
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:37 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Everyone should benefit from the Tax plan. It is a 1.5 Trillion dollar credit deficit invoked by cowards that can't pay down the National debt as a time when the economy is booming.


The tax reform package leaves forcasted revenues well within their historical norms as a percent of GDP. Revenues are not the problem. Spending is the problem. And spending cuts are coming up next.


Which President Bozo said would not happen.

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The fact that some won't benefit from this Tax plan is due to the fact that the Republican party has once again gamed the system for the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class.


A blatant misrepresentation.


How so? Would Bozo have won if he had been honest?

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This bill is nothing decent, nothing intelligent, and really poorly designed. It will cause massive inflation, and keep the national deficit sky high when the Micky Mouse growth estimates do not materialize.


Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.


"Why are people so upset? Bozo is doing everything he promised to do." Yeah, we get it.

Lie, Cheat, and Steal.

Rinse, Wash, Repeat.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:41 am

Ken777 wrote:
With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,


Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
salttee
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:43 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.
Instead stonewalling, why don't you answer to the complaint that the Republicans are (again) running up the deficit for no reason other than to overheat the economy and continue the boom / bust cycle that always hurts the working man?
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:55 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,


Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


I can't speak for Ken, but I don't need any, but what's that saying again? "If you don't like the United States, get out?" (Hell, maybe I'm for an Antisocial Head Tax.)

You've very transparently laid out the GOP's problem. To win votes (which you have to do in a democracy to set policy), they have to blatantly lie about what they're doing, scaremonger, and race-bait. Plenty of Americans, including upper middle class and affluent ones like myself, believe in some form of a progressive tax system with some form of a social safety net instead of special interests bribing for tax cuts through campaign contributions. Plenty of thankful and grateful Americans even think that such a system is the foundation for being one of the richest countries in the world. There may be debate as to form, but the majority of mainstream economists agree. (I know education is a bit too elitist for you guys.) The sad part about this idiotic tax cut is how far leftward it's going to turn us the next decade because you guys can't get (keep?) enough while sticking it to others even more. Hello Bernie, who can be just as much a kook as Trump when it comes to economic policy, but unfortunately is light years more likable.

What's so difficult to understand, North Texas? I'd ask if I could write you a check to make you whole, but your ilk is not happy until you're not paying a damned cent. Keep on clicking those heels, Dorothy. Maybe you'll finally get to your LaLa Land.
Last edited by jetero on Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:01 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,


Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


Everyone who works pays into Social Security and Medicare. Republicans want to take that away from us. Because, somehow, we can afford thousands of dollars a month or more for health care. The guy with gold toilets can, so everyone can, right?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:05 am

salttee wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.
Instead stonewalling, why don't you answer to the complaint that the Republicans are (again) running up the deficit for no reason other than to overheat the economy and continue the boom / bust cycle that always hurts the working man?


You're wrong. You're always wrong.

Let's get real. The tax reform package will not materially impact the deficit. There is no real-world scenario where the baseline tax revenues were actually going to be collected. The American public simply will not accept a tax burden greater than ~18% of GDP. By hook-or-crook, the American public would have found a way to keep that money away from Uncle Sam. The practical impact of the tax reform package is to acknowledge how much revenue the government will realistically collect in the 2020s, and oh by the way, implement long-overdue structural reforms that would not be remotely controversial in a sane political climate. The deficit problem has been - and will always be - caused by spending.

Overheating the economy? Hardly. The U.S. economy was in low-gear at 1-2% growth for the last 8 years. Only this year are we likely to break 3% GDP growth again. Our historical post-WWII norm is 3-4%. The dynamic scoring of the bill shows perhaps a 0.5% GDP boost. So this "overheated economy" you characterize would actually be entirely average.

Lastly, there have been 47 recessions in U.S. history. Who wants to trade places with a working man from just prior to our first recession in 1785? I didn't think so. Recessions, corrections, busts, or whatever you wish to call them are necessary events in market economies. They do not leave us worse off in the aggregate. That's why our standard of living and productivity for everyone - of all skill and income levels - is unfathomably more advanced than just a generation ago.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 10398
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:05 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,


Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


As usual, when you have no good argument you resort to insults, as an older person myself, I am never surprised at the last resort, an age insult. Now I have one for you. How much money does the old man in the White House need and the old men Republicans in congress need to give to the wealthy and themselves? Pathetic is what I rate your insult. :roll: :talktothehand:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:09 am

WarRI1 wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,


Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


As usual, when you have no good argument you resort to insults, as an older person myself, I am never surprised at the last resort, an age insult. Now I have one for you. How much money does the old man in the White House need and the old men Republicans in congress need to give to the wealthy and themselves? Pathetic is what I rate your insult. :roll: :talktothehand:


I have insulted nobody. By contrast, Ken777 is insulting Republicans as "greedy." I am merely observing the irony that someone would accuse anyone of greed while also claiming an entitlement to someone else's money.

Seriously, you all say that you've earned those Medicare and Social Security benefits. So let's just cut-out the middleman. How much of my money do you need?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:14 am

jetero wrote:
Plenty of Americans, including upper middle class and affluent ones like myself, believe in some form of a progressive tax system with some form of a social safety net instead of special interests bribing for tax cuts through campaign contributions.


Quick and without using Google: does the tax reform bill make the U.S. tax code more or less progressive?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:21 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
jetero wrote:
Plenty of Americans, including upper middle class and affluent ones like myself, believe in some form of a progressive tax system with some form of a social safety net instead of special interests bribing for tax cuts through campaign contributions.


Quick and without using Google: does the tax reform bill make the U.S. tax code more or less progressive?


A SHITLOAD LESS progressive. Prove otherwise. Without GOOGLE.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 10398
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:23 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:

Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


As usual, when you have no good argument you resort to insults, as an older person myself, I am never surprised at the last resort, an age insult. Now I have one for you. How much money does the old man in the White House need and the old men Republicans in congress need to give to the wealthy and themselves? Pathetic is what I rate your insult. :roll: :talktothehand:


I have insulted nobody. By contrast, Ken777 is insulting Republicans as "greedy." I am merely observing the irony that someone would accuse anyone of greed while also claiming an entitlement to someone else's money.

Seriously, you all say that you've earned those Medicare and Social Security benefits. So let's just cut-out the middleman. How much of my money do you need?


That is a problem. Your insults demean your argument. I would ask you to ask your Father and Mother that question, see how that works out. Under Federal Law, we earned what benefits we get and still pay on every damn penny we get. I have been retired for twenty years and still pay on every dime my savings earn, plus on my SS. MY state just gave up on State taxes on SS last year Look it up. Stop whining about paying taxes. The Republicans and their minions are the epitome of greed and selfishness.
Last edited by WarRI1 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:23 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
salttee wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.
Instead stonewalling, why don't you answer to the complaint that the Republicans are (again) running up the deficit for no reason other than to overheat the economy and continue the boom / bust cycle that always hurts the working man?


You're wrong. You're always wrong.

Let's get real. The tax reform package will not materially impact the deficit. There is no real-world scenario where the baseline tax revenues were actually going to be collected. The American public simply will not accept a tax burden greater than ~18% of GDP. By hook-or-crook, the American public would have found a way to keep that money away from Uncle Sam. The practical impact of the tax reform package is to acknowledge how much revenue the government will realistically collect in the 2020s, and oh by the way, implement long-overdue structural reforms that would not be remotely controversial in a sane political climate. The deficit problem has been - and will always be - caused by spending.


1) The tax reform package on its own won't impact the deficit because I said it won't. (Nevermind what independent economists have said--the lead in the Dallas groundwater has made me an expert in econometrics.)

2) "The American public simply will not accept a tax burden greater than ~18% of GDP. By hook-or-crook, the American public would have found a way to keep that money away from Uncle Sam." Wow. If that isn't a strawman, I don't know what is.

3) Some great circular logic.

4) More DFW prairie straw.

DfwRevolution wrote:
Overheating the economy? Hardly. The U.S. economy was in low-gear at 1-2% growth for the last 8 years. Only this year are we likely to break 3% GDP growth again. Our historical post-WWII norm is 3-4%. The dynamic scoring of the bill shows perhaps a 0.5% GDP boost. So this "overheated economy" you characterize would actually be entirely average.


Exactly what it should be growing at after a long recovery from a financial crisis caused in party by, guess what, loosey-goosey financial regulations.

In any case, there is plenty of disagreement among professional economists with regard to unemployment being as close to full employment as it is.

DfwRevolution wrote:
Lastly, there have been 47 recessions in U.S. history. Who wants to trade places with a working man from just prior to our first recession in 1785? I didn't think so. Recessions, corrections, busts, or whatever you wish to call them are necessary events in market economies. They do not leave us worse off in the aggregate. That's why our standard of living and productivity for everyone - of all skill and income levels - is unfathomably more advanced than just a generation ago.


Who in the hell is talking about going back to the first recession in 1785? What the hell are you talking about? The poor will sleep under electric lamps and may get some exhaust from a street grate once they don't get your money through the earned income credit and food stamps even after working a 40-hour week at McDonald's?
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:24 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
jetero wrote:
Plenty of Americans, including upper middle class and affluent ones like myself, believe in some form of a progressive tax system with some form of a social safety net instead of special interests bribing for tax cuts through campaign contributions.


Quick and without using Google: does the tax reform bill make the U.S. tax code more or less progressive?


Depends by year, Cowboy.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:28 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Everyone should benefit from the Tax plan. It is a 1.5 Trillion dollar credit deficit invoked by cowards that can't pay down the National debt as a time when the economy is booming.


The tax reform package leaves forcasted revenues well within their historical norms as a percent of GDP. Revenues are not the problem. Spending is the problem. And spending cuts are coming up next.


So why cut when we are at a high in economic growth? We should be raising rates, just as the fed is raising rates, just to cover the rising interest. When we cut taxes it should be to spur growth at a time when growth is a problem. Not when it is optimal.
DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The fact that some won't benefit from this Tax plan is due to the fact that the Republican party has once again gamed the system for the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class.


A blatant misrepresentation.

Sorry, I took Calculus, Statistics, Linear Algebra and a lot more math than most folks. You don't cut taxes on top income groups, without a plan to screw over the lower income folks. Maybe in Magical Jesus land the GOP can wish up some fake math, and get the Frauds at some psycho conservative Heritage club cult to sign off on it.

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This bill is nothing decent, nothing intelligent, and really poorly designed. It will cause massive inflation, and keep the national deficit sky high when the Micky Mouse growth estimates do not materialize.


Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.


It is when it is done bass ackwards, like this is being done.

[quote="DfwRevolution"]
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9449
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:42 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
With a greedy grab the GOP is taking on University students they are demonstrating a level of ignorance, or a lack of concern of what we need to build a future in the modern world. All they care about is this year's income, risking 5 and 10 years out. Companies get tax breaks for R&D as smart companies know those investments are important. It is just as important that investments in our future continue in the field of education. That is about as sick as the cuts the GOP has in line for us next year in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security,


Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


Just like your parents and grand parents were entitled to my money? I had absolutely no problem with them gettinIg a monthly check from Social Security - they worked for it. And, amazingly enough, you will get your checks when you hit that age, and only young assholes will bitch about your checks.

Same with Medicare. I paid in for my generations to have benefits as well as those who came before due. I also pay out each month for private health care - it's called Medicare Supplement and I have the best option available for me and my wife. Toss in Medical for some savings, but not that much. My only reason for Medical is for a time when. we need expensive meds, like my wife did with her chemo.

Actually I believe that I need to post a thread on medical costs these days and the Medicare Discounts. That would turn you green for the holiday.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:31 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
salttee wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Yawn. Everything the Republicans do is a catastrophe. We get it.
Instead stonewalling, why don't you answer to the complaint that the Republicans are (again) running up the deficit for no reason other than to overheat the economy and continue the boom / bust cycle that always hurts the working man?


You're wrong. You're always wrong.

Let's get real. The tax reform package will not materially impact the deficit.


That is not what the CBO says.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/08/house-t ... n-cbo.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/27/politics/ ... index.html

Lastly, there have been 47 recessions in U.S. history. Who wants to trade places with a working man from just prior to our first recession in 1785? I didn't think so. Recessions, corrections, busts, or whatever you wish to call them are necessary events in market economies. They do not leave us worse off in the aggregate. That's why our standard of living and productivity for everyone - of all skill and income levels - is unfathomably more advanced than just a generation ago.


Why don't you trade places with the families that were "better off" (your feelings) after October 29, 1929?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:44 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
Overheating the economy? Hardly. The U.S. economy was in low-gear at 1-2% growth for the last 8 years. Only this year are we likely to break 3% GDP growth again. Our historical post-WWII norm is 3-4%. The dynamic scoring of the bill shows perhaps a 0.5% GDP boost. So this "overheated economy" you characterize would actually be entirely average.


You are having a very common misconception. You have to compare growth rates in USD PPP absolut, not in percentage of GDP, if you want to compare growth in different times. So ~1.8% growth in 2017 is about as hard to get, and means as much, as 3% in 1990 and 3% in 2017 are about equivalent to 5% in 1990.

You may not know that, but even today supply is still a limiting factor and demand pull inflation is becoming a serious threat again. And that is a real killer for economies as it is inviting building up overcapacity, financed of course. You get into an oversupply situation, and that usually gets sorted out by companies going bankrupt, not being able to server their debt. We all remember how much fun mass default on credit is, right?
Lead times are already stretching, electronic components are running into shortage, even freaking passive resistors. Try sourcing tantalum core capacitors and you are looking at delivery next summer, some RAM/Flash chips have lead times between 6 and 12 month (!) by now, and that is with about double the prices from a year ago.

For a modern high GDP per capita economy, overheating happens at very low growth rates, over 2% isn´t sustainable. A dead give away for a potential overheating situation is low unemployment close to or at full employment rate, and we are well pass that. The OECD considers 4 to 6.4% unemployment rates full employment, for the US, Germany and other comparable nations 5% can be safely assumed to fit that bill. If you adjust for demographic changes economic participation rates are pretty much topped out.

In short: The FED will, and will have to, wipe out any extra growth by that stimulus package by raising the interest rate, and the whole bill is simply taking up a trillion to 1.5 trillion USD in loans and give it to the rich. Poor and middle class people will have to pay for that in higher taxes and, for many small incomes probably more important, higher interest rates. And a much bigger share of their tax revenue will go towards the debt, the compound effects from growing debt and raising interest rates are killers, instead of services/infrastructure and so on.

All of the above is why no one outside of the treasury thinks the bill will have the effects the GOP claims, and that is pretty darn obvious by the simple fact that the department published an "analysis" of the tax plan, after having hundreds of people working on it for month (!), on a single page with plenty of apparently made up numbers, as there is no explanations how they got to them. Someone should try and get their internal working papers, that "analysis" is based, on via the Freedom of Information act, and i would bet a nice little Heineken Xmas edition Magnum bottle that those internal papers say exactly what other economists say: It will add to the debt and not stimulate further growth in any meaningful way.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:52 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Just like your parents and grand parents were entitled to my money? I had absolutely no problem with them gettinIg a monthly check from Social Security - they worked for it. And, amazingly enough, you will get your checks when you hit that age, and only young assholes will bitch about your checks.


The young assholes aren't bitching--you're talking about a generation of young professionals whose careers have been anemic due to the Great Recession. The idea that millennials are entitled is nuts--it's the large Newt Gingrich cohort of the Baby Boomers who are.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2348
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:52 pm

casinterest wrote:

Sorry, I took Calculus, Statistics, Linear Algebra and a lot more math than most folks. You don't cut taxes on top income groups, without a plan to screw over the lower income folks. Maybe in Magical Jesus land the GOP can wish up some fake math, and get the Frauds at some psycho conservative Heritage club cult to sign off on it.



That is not 100% accurate, it can be done (it isn't this time but it can be done), you simply pile on a huge amount of debt. Or of course the way it is being done this time, gut benefit payouts.....Next year will be interesting for sure.

In the mean time, I am wondering, as NIKV69 and DfwRevolution are the most vocal in their support on here, what are your income ranges ? Just a broad range, I have to wonder as with your vocal support you must be making $250k + or fail to understand the implications of what is being passed....

BTW, if you do make under $250k a year, thank you, the tax breaks the wife and I are getting will enable me to retire a couple of years earlier....
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 908
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:02 pm

Before the historic Reagan tax cuts, polls showed that only 18% thought they would save.
Polls
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
LMP737
Posts: 5310
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:04 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:

Hey look... It's the old man who thinks he's entitled to my money lecturing me about greed. How much of my money do you need this week, Ken?


So you don't benefit in any way from the taxes paid by others?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:15 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Before the historic Reagan tax cuts, polls showed that only 18% thought they would save.
Polls


Another useful nonsequitur
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 11331
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:36 pm

jetwet1 wrote:

BTW, if you do make under $250k a year, thank you, the tax breaks the wife and I are getting will enable me to retire a couple of years earlier....


You're welcome
tommy1808 wrote:

only about 25% of the US electorate voted for Trump. And i didn´t generalize they are all lunatics or rape supporters. Some may just have been stupid and got honestly dooped.


 
tommy1808
Posts: 6834
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:14 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Before the historic Reagan tax cuts, polls showed that only 18% thought they would save.
Polls


Who is using poll numbers in this threat? I mean aside of you.

During the Reagan times the USA, as much of the rest of the world, coming out of a recession with a 20% FED interest rate, that would half within a year, almost doubled the national debt and got a meager 3.6% average growth to the US. His reforms where such a failure the he needed to raise taxes what, three times?

But the republican truly deserve respect for the spin they put on Reagenonmics, as there are still plenty of people out there that think it worked.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:11 pm

So now Rubio is a tentative no, and guess what he is arguing for? More breaks for the working class families. Obviously he sees this Bill as I do. A scam for the wealthy to pay less taxes. Wonder how many other Senators are on board with his line of thinking in the GOP?
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:03 am

So here it is . The tax break for the Rich. Check out that 9% tax rate drop from the 233-315 K range for couples. Those folks that make over 315 K get an extra 7200 out of this bill. Those under this income range get a measly 3% rate drop. This bill is by and for the Rich. The GOP sells out the working and middle class yet again. The Mathematical evidence is right in the brackets. Plus all those that can afford Private schools get an extra 10,000 tax break.


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e ... l-tax-plan

All to pay off the rich, and drive the debt and deficit higher.

In 2025 it all expires.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.

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