I just pointed out a fact known to me - a passenger airliner was shot down by the Americans. I'm not looking for every example of given me detailed help on the Internet, so I used to lead the discussion, drawing on his own memory, and not on Google. In the context of the discussion of the example aircraft model is not important.
By your own admission, you draw from your own memory, and as is proven memory is the lowest form of evidence. If you can't be trusted with providing the correct facts on the little things, how can we trust you to provide them with the big things?
So you agree with this, great.
3. Ukraine did not provide these data, moreover, the official comments of Ukrainian politicians, Ukraine had no BUK complexes: https://korrespondent.net/ukraine/35234 ... poroshenko
But it is an outright lie, and adviser to the President of Ukraine could not know about the existence of such complexes in the army. Then why did he lie about?
Does it matter if there is no indication that the missile came from Ukraine site? They could have a ziliion BUK's but if none of them shot the MH17 down.
4. But the Russian aircraft did not violate the airspace of Ukraine - but Ukrainian planes have repeatedly violated Russian airspace, what was even the official statements of the Russian Ministry of defence. In addition, the complex BUK is a complex of short-medium range, and it is ridiculous to assume that they have something can be hidden from the actions of the Russian aircraft in case, if any, began. If someone wanted to cover the area in the East of Ukraine military aviation, had to be created a layered air defense system with the use of complexes C-300, C-200, C-125, which is in the part of the Ukrainian troops.
Russia violates Ukraine airspace on a daily basis, each time they fly into the Crimea. But let put that aside. https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-respo ... 00607.htmlhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-27/r ... ne/5413632https://theaviationist.com/2015/06/18/t ... he-border/https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraines-pm-a ... 01902.htmlhttp://euromaidanpress.com/2017/09/19/r ... ince-2014/
But Russia is repeatedly threatening Ukraine so why not put up some defensive measures.
5. Absolutely the wrong conclusion - complexes BUK at full strength were available only from the Ukrainian army. Version about Russia's selling one installation is not tenable - if Russia supplied militia for the defense - it would make sense to put the full version of the complex, together with the crews. There is no logic in supplying only the launcher.
Why is it not tenable? I agree that there is no logic, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
6. This eliminates incorrect version of attack of the passenger liner. That is the one who launched the missile, had the full understanding that target is attacked. And now tell me why the militia or the Russian military to shoot down a passenger plane? What are the advantages it could help them get? What purpose to achieve? Every crime there is always a motive, otherwise, the crime just doesn't happen. Ukraine and Pentagon's such a motive was the death of the passenger plane - a great episode in order to expose the Russian bad. And what is the motive of Russia to commit such an act? It's like that shoot yourself in the foot, so why do the Pro-Russian forces?
How do you know he had a full understanding of the target?
Now on a crime, first your assertion that a crime has been committed - besides involuntary homicide -. Is there a deliberate act of shooting down MH17 or was it a mistake? I believe the latter, but non have been proven.
I see no advantage from either side to deliberate shooting down the MH17, when (and note not if), the truth will come out that side (in your assertion Ukraine) will be without any support. Russian military or the militia also have no reason to shoot it down, they do (and did shot down) however have all the motive to shoot down Ukraine military craft lying from west to east, like the MH17, so a mistake could have been made.
With crime there is always a motive, in the fog of war mistakes will happen.
Everything points to a Russian supplied BUK
And what indicates this? Fabricated data that is not verifiable, that is not subject to verification? You talked about circumstantial evidence, but the point is that circumstantial evidence can be interpreted as a convenient - they can not deny because it is impossible to confirm their presence. I now can say that circumstantial evidence suggests that you are an agent of Putin - and you won't be able to deny it.
Again read the reports published by Dutch officials and you will find all the answers in there, everything that has been proven already and all the myth the Russian officials have been spread has been looked at and disproven. Nobody has been charged yet, so no definite proof has been found on a specific person and his role in shooting down the MH17, but they are closing in, Russia isn't working with them to seek the truth.
We will see when the evidence is presented in court if it will be convincing to a professional judge or not.
As for the situation with the B747 shot down in 1983, the aircraft has strayed far from the route, having flown in the restricted area, and did not respond to attempts of contact by the fighter aircraft sent to intercept. It was during the cold war, and provocations from the United States, associated with the violation of the airspace of the Soviet Union, occurred regularly. What was the likelihood that the flight carries out a reconnaissance aircraft, the pilot could not at that time is guaranteed to identify the aircraft as civilian, and led warning fire from guns on the course before the plane was shot down by two missiles. That is a tragedy, which led to a chain of random coincidences.
Phh, so you can't be sure, so you just shoot it down, killing a few hundred people in the process. That is your defense of this Russian attack?
Here is a list of all airliners shot down by military: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _incidents
993 Transair Georgian Airline shootdowns
In September 1993, three airliners belonging to Transair Georgia were shot down by missiles and gunfire in Sukhumi, Abkhazia, Georgia. The first, a Tupolev Tu-134, was shot down on September 21, 1993 by a missile during landing approach. The second plane, a Tupolev Tu-154, was shot down a day later also during approach. A third one was shelled and destroyed on the ground, while passengers were boarding.
Russian backed militia shooting down airliners, what was the motive there?