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aviationaware wrote:I don't often side with Dutchy, but the way you are defending the abysmal state of affairs in Russia is absolutely reprehensible, Scorpius. Russia is a mafia state.
Scorpius wrote:aviationaware wrote:I don't often side with Dutchy, but the way you are defending the abysmal state of affairs in Russia is absolutely reprehensible, Scorpius. Russia is a mafia state.
I never doubted for a moment that this is the position of Western propaganda.
Dutchy wrote:Illegal bridge to an illegally annexed territory. A number of Dutch companies played a part in the construction - guess Russia didn't have that technology if they went to a Dutch firm to help them build it - and they are in trouble with the law because of it. It is part of the sanctions against Russia.
So I don't know why it is so proudly displayed here? It is like a burglar proudly displaying his spoils of a crime.
And I guess Scorpius didn't like the comments made about the MS-21 and had them removed because they are gone, while the second MS-21 first flight is quite impropriated to mention here in the general forum. So perhaps he can have this comment removed as well since he dislikes all negative comments about Russia.
anrec80 wrote:What’s wrong with the bridge? Isn’t it the EU narrative - “build bridges, not walls”? Well - they built the bridge. Now people in Crimea have more freedom of movement, trade is also more free. All positives, regardless where you look.
Dutch Government Dropping Kaspersky Software Over Spying Fears
The Dutch government is phasing out the use of anti-virus software made by Russian firm Kaspersky Lab amid fears of possible spying, despite vehement denials by the Moscow-based cybersecurity company.
The Dutch Justice and Security ministry said in a statement late Monday the decision had been taken as a "precautionary measure" in order "to guarantee national security."
anrec80 wrote:And - what’s wrong with the second MS-21? Some here mention “Russia’s abysmal state” - well, the MS-21 was demonstrated as a success of Russia, and it certainly is - at last someone does something new in narrow-body segment. Both Airbus and Boeing are still capitalizing on 1980-s designs with their A320 and B737, and nobody sees any issues with this. Russians did move away from Tu-204 or designs based on it, even though it was developed and first flew around the same time as A320 and 737NG.
MOSCOW — President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday opened a $4 billion bridge directly linking Russia to Crimea, giving him a propaganda victory that drew condemnation from the West and served as the latest demonstration of his personalized system of power.
Putin, clad in jeans and a jacket, walked on the Russian end of the 12-mile-long, four-lane bridge alongside the business mogul who built it — Arkady Rotenberg, the president’s former judo partner. Then Putin took the wheel and drove over the Kerch Strait of the Black Sea in an orange Kamaz dump truck — manufactured by a state-owned company headed by Sergey Chemezov, Putin’s KGB colleague in East Germany in the 1980s. Both Rotenberg and Chemezov are under U.S. sanctions.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov had earlier told journalists that Putin’s bridge project showed that “even the most ambitious plans can be realized when they are implemented by him.”
It also underscored the Putin-centric system of political and economic patronage in Russia. Rotenberg’s role as the builder of the bridge showed how Russia’s billionaires have been able to leverage their closeness to Putin to further enrich themselves — while also rendering services to the state.
It also underscored the Putin-centric system of political and economic patronage in Russia. Rotenberg’s role as the builder of the bridge showed how Russia’s billionaires have been able to leverage their closeness to Putin to further enrich themselves — while also rendering services to the state.
The focus on Putin’s role, however, also hinted at a less flattering reality: the untold number of poor roads, railroads and bridges across the country that don’t benefit from the president’s personal patronage. The World Bank ranks the quality of Russia’s trade and transport infrastructure at 94th in the world, just behind Tunisia and ahead of Colombia.
Across the country, Russians complain of corruption and poor execution hindering much-needed public works repairs and infrastructure projects. The government’s push to pour money into Crimea will mean even fewer funds for projects elsewhere, said Dmitry Oreshkin, a Moscow political analyst.
Dutchy wrote:Dutch Government Dropping Kaspersky Software Over Spying Fears
The Dutch government is phasing out the use of anti-virus software made by Russian firm Kaspersky Lab amid fears of possible spying, despite vehement denials by the Moscow-based cybersecurity company.
The Dutch Justice and Security ministry said in a statement late Monday the decision had been taken as a "precautionary measure" in order "to guarantee national security."
WIederling wrote:Dutchy wrote:Dutch Government Dropping Kaspersky Software Over Spying Fears
The Dutch government is phasing out the use of anti-virus software made by Russian firm Kaspersky Lab amid fears of possible spying, despite vehement denials by the Moscow-based cybersecurity company.
The Dutch Justice and Security ministry said in a statement late Monday the decision had been taken as a "precautionary measure" in order "to guarantee national security."
Getting rid of the NSA Uber Spy stuff that seeps in via Microsoft products would provide a quantum leap in improved security.
Dutchy wrote:America isn't an autocratic country without checks and balances, like Putin's Russia.
WIederling wrote:The US is not autocratic. I give you that.
Dutchy wrote:Interesting article about the bridge.
Ukraine should just bomb the bridge, it is illegally built on their territory, so they are in their right to demolish.
Intersting story indeed.
anrec80 wrote:Dutchy wrote:Interesting article about the bridge.
Ukraine should just bomb the bridge, it is illegally built on their territory, so they are in their right to demolish.
Intersting story indeed.
Are you seriously offering Ukrainians to bomb Russians? You recall the history of 2014. First, in April of that year they bombed Luhansk already. Consequences still don’t have an end in sight. Second - what to bomb with? By the fall of that very same year Ukraine ran out of Air Force - all the planes were hit.
Last but not least - even Gen. Mattis from Trump Administration avoids like hell any attempts to talk to Russians using language of bombs. Even sanctions don’t work there obviously. And you are offering that to the Ukrainian drunkard? Even after 3 bottles of vodka he realizes should he do something like this he is simply not destined to sober up. Or, at best, this would be the last time ever he was to get wasted.
Every single Ukrainian “democratic leader” and “patriotic” idiot just needs to get through his head - crimea is gone thanks to their own “patriotic” efforts. And leave such ideas alone.
Tugger wrote:What I think is funny and telling is that based on Putin's dictation Russia spends over $50 billion on one Winter Olympics and $4 billion one one bridge, vanity projects get support from Putin and meanwhile trash is overrunning its landfills and the rest of its road are among the worst in the world.
Dutchy wrote:
So out of all those points raised, you decide to pick my comment which obviously isn't all that seriously. I guess satire doesn't suit you.
anrec80 wrote:and even say “we trust them”.
anrec80 wrote:Dutchy wrote:
So out of all those points raised, you decide to pick my comment which obviously isn't all that seriously. I guess satire doesn't suit you.
Ahhh - so that was satire. Glad to hear. See, such things are spoken seriously too often. In Ukraine, it’s very uncommon to hear serious suggestions along these lines. Such as to bomb the bridge, to explode it, to photograph from satellites every single car passing over it, etc. And Western officials and Western media also gladly pick these Ukrainian “ideas” and even say “we trust them”.
KICT wrote:Regarding Russia, it's a shame targeted political assassinations are frowned upon. Putin needs to be taken out.
It's also a shame that the people of Russia stood idly by as their democracy turned into a mafia state. WEAK!
didn't quite play out as intended. He actually and under the hood is the patriot that a lot of Americans pretend to be. WIederling wrote:I don't see a "Lost Democracy" on the way from 1990 to Today. I see the reign of Yeltsin as the lowest
and today's Russia as the highest point up to now on the way to a fair society.
WIederling wrote:Follow up to Yeltsin was Vladimir Putin, viewed at the time ( my guess) as a colorless KGB apparatchik, putty in the hands of Yeltsins US overlords.
I don't see a "Lost Democracy" on the way from 1990 to Today. I see the reign of Yeltsin as the lowest
and today's Russia as the highest point up to now on the way to a fair society.
L410Turbolet wrote:Would not expect otherwise from a notorious Putinversteher...
Dutchy wrote:Brilliant how indoctrination works and how effective propaganda actually is.
WIederling wrote:L410Turbolet wrote:Would not expect otherwise from a notorious Putinversteher...Dutchy wrote:Brilliant how indoctrination works and how effective propaganda actually is.
This is so much like medieval witch hunt times.
"Earth is flat and at the center of the universe.
If you do not follow our lead we will burn you on the stake
because you obviously are a facet of the devil incarnate."
Scorpius wrote:Hi all. I'm from Russia and I'm ready to answer your questions. Let's have a little chat. If you are interested, of course.
In June the world will turn its eyes toward Russia for the Football World Cup. It will be a long awaited and joyous event. For most Russians it will also be an occasion of deep national pride.
Some of us who write these words are passionate followers of football, others are not. But none of us will be able to share in this World Cup in the way we would have done before. We have something in common that gives this event and the place in which it is held, a different, darker meaning.
On July 17, 2014 Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. Two hundred and ninety eight people were killed. Among the bodies lying among the debris and fields of sunflowers were our children, our partners, our brothers and sisters, our parents.
The impact on our lives
Despite it being nearly four years since our lives were shattered, we struggle to comprehend what happened. The people we love were killed in a war, a war in which they were not combatants, a war they had nothing to do with. We know they are not the only victims of this confrontation. More than 10, 000 people have been killed, the majority of them civilians. Their families are grieving like ours, not understanding why the people they love have been snatched from them. It is the finality of death that is so painful. We could live with a separation, even of years, if we knew it had an end.
We, as families of those killed on MH17, are still breathing, but the lives we had also came to a close that day. We are not the same people we were before. The world we live in is darker and less hopeful. We have struggled to maintain faith in human goodness. It may be that some of us will find some sense of purpose and happiness again. But we will always be marked by the brutal and sudden death of those we love.
Even more though, this callous act has defined the people we love. Their stories, which should have gone on, have come to an abrupt stop. We now cannot experience them, we can only remember them. Part of our remembering must be to speak of the wrongfulness of their deaths and urging that those responsible for this crime are called to account. The people we love can no longer speak for themselves.
We know there is a long history between Russia and Ukraine and there are different perspectives on what led to conflict erupting in 2014. No nation state is blameless, including our own. All nations have a right to flourish as best they can, without impeding or violating the rights of others. All parties must be prepared to face what part they have played in the conflict. But whatever the history and exact circumstances, that can never justify the shooting down of a passenger plane and the killing of all those on board. How do we respond to that?
Questions of hate and responsibility
Like all who have suffered the violent death of people we love, we are tempted to respond with hate. But we have to separate ordinary Russian people from the individuals responsible - the chain of command that led to the shooting down of MH17. Most of us don’t know Russian people well. Hate and distrust come partly from ignorance and when we know more of a person’s story, that can change how we see things. We know that the Russian people have a right to thrive, as did our loved ones. Still, we struggle. If we are able to change it will take time. But we know that giving in to hatred and bitterness would consume us and, unchecked among the nations, it will destroy human life on this planet.
It is easier when we remember we are all human beings and what we have in common. Some of us saw the faces of Russian families after Metrojet Flight 9268 was bombed and crashed over Egypt in October 2015, killing all 224 people on board. They were overwhelmed with grief, struggling to comprehend what had happened. We understand that disbelief, the horror of your loved one’s lives being taken violently and without warning. If ever we met those families perhaps we could start a conversation, for we would already know a central truth about each other’s lives.
No, we do not blame the Russian people for what happened. We are not against you. We hold the Russian state and its leaders as ultimately responsible for the deaths of our family members. All the credible evidence points in that direction. It has already been a long wait for us, but sometime in the future the five nation Joint Investigation Team will deliver its final report and people will be named. Then it will be up to the appointed court in the Netherlands to carefully weigh the evidence and reach a conclusion about which individuals were responsible.
The importance of truth
We have confidence in the thoroughness and impartiality of the work conducted by the Joint Investigation Team. The same cannot be said about the reporting on MH17 coming out of Russian state media channels. In the first months some of us were troubled by the multiple, often contradictory stories about what happened to MH17 coming out of Russia. “MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian jet.” “It was blown up by a missile intended for the Russian President’s plane.” “It was already full of dead bodies and deliberately crashed.” “It was shot down by a BUK missile but not one of Russia’s.” These shocking, disturbing and contradictory stories were then magnified 1000 fold in posts on different social media. All this material was distressing. Some of us had doubts. It is only later that we came to understand that this was exactly what was intended. These practices are part of a coordinated state campaign of misinformation intended to distract and confuse, to create an alternative reality in which all truth is relative and no information can be trusted. The Russian state media, as well as private media channels that cooperate with the state, are complicit in this vile and deceitful campaign. We know that all countries, including our own, bend the truth and tell lies sometimes. But do Russian people really want to live in a country where the truth has ceased to exist? Perhaps some of you reading this already think that we do not exist and that this article is made up?
Well, we are real, and our hope is that ultimately truth will prevail.
We appeal again for the Russian government to cooperate fully with the international investigation into MH17. It will not bring our families back but the truth does matter, the truth does exist and we want those responsible for MH17 to be identified and held accountable. We teach our children when they are small that they must own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions. We want our governments to do the same. We ask Russia to do the same.
Shared humanity
In recent months world tensions have increased. In an atmosphere of hostility and distrust we need international systems based on the rule of law, where each has confidence that justice and fairness is at least possible. We also need to recover our sense of shared humanity. Ultimately, we are all in this together on this one, small, blue planet.
In 2014 our children and families lay lifeless amidst the fields and sunflowers of Eastern Ukraine. In 2015 Russian children and families lay lifeless on the stones and sand of the Egyptian desert. In death we are not so different. Barriers of language, culture, differences in race or religion no longer matter. What remains is loss and love. Human loss and love.
This World Cup
All this is in our minds and hearts as we contemplate this World Cup in Russia. Football is called the world game. More nations play this game than any other. At its best football can mirror what is admirable about us all - our distinct styles of play, our culture, our singing and dress, our obvious passion or our steely discipline, our skill, courage and creativity, the sheer joy of play, the desire to strive and be tested to our utmost, and the respect we give those with whom we compete.
At its worst football can mirror the ugliness of which we are also capable. It can descend into a closed minded and aggressive nationalism, reinforcing divisions and prejudices, opening old wounds and inflicting new ones.
The football World Cup can be a celebration of our shared humanity. It can be an example, however fleeting, of our capacity to live with each other in peace. If it is that, then we might be better able to lift our heads to watch.
May this World Cup be played in a good spirit. We hope that it is a success and something in which ordinary Russian people can take pleasure and pride. But we cannot deny that from our perspective, a shadow hangs over this event. We are painfully aware of the dark irony that the Russian leaders who will profess to welcome the world with open arms, are those who are chiefly to blame for shattering our world. And that it is these same leaders who have persistently sought to hide the truth, and who have evaded responsibility ever since that dreadful day in July 2014.
The number of new HIV infections is decreasing worldwide, but it is alarming in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. With Russia first. The HIV epidemic is growing by 10% per year, just as quickly as during the early years of the epidemic in Africa. We come into action to turn the tide.
Eighty AIDS deaths per day
In Russia and surrounding countries, HIV care and AIDS prevention are lagging far behind other regions. In Russia, the number of new HIV infections increased by an alarming 75% between 2010 and 2016! While in the meantime eighty Russians die every day from the effects of AIDS, Putin is only watching.
Online HIV project
That is why we are now developing an innovative online project in the region itself. In this way we reach 150,000 gay men and sex workers in Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine and Russia and give them access to HIV prevention, testing and care. And that is badly needed, because under the leadership of the conservative Russian government, homophobia in the region is rising sharply. Men who have sex with men are everywhere discriminated against and excluded from medical care. Consequence: the epidemic is getting around here. Right under our nose. This new outbreak is a real threat to the end of AIDS.
Crimean Tatar Civic Activists arrested in new offensive against Crimea Solidarity
Russia has ignored even the Holy Month of Ramadan and carried out new armed searches and arrests in occupied Crimea, with one of the targets Server Mustafaev, a highly-respected civic activist and coordinator of the Crimea Solidarity movement. This is the latest attack on men who are actively reporting on rights violations in occupied Crimea and helping the families of political prisoners. Reports about these arrests have coincided in the Russian media with claims of a bizarre ‘plot’, involving a Ukrainian recently abducted while entering Crimea and aimed at discrediting the Mejlis, or self-governing body, of the Crimean Tatar people.
Vans with masked men turned up early in the morning of 21 May at the Bakhchysarai homes of Server Mustafaev and Edem Smailov, who is also active in Crimea Solidarity. Mustafaev’s lawyer Emil Kurbedinov was prevented from being present, which is a flagrant violation of Mustafaev’s right to defence. There were elderly people in the Mustafaev home, as well as his four small children. It is difficult to conceive the trauma inflicted on children when men with automatic rifles burst into their homes, force their fathers to the floor and take them away. Mustafaev’s third very small son Yusuf came out on to the street where people had come to show support, saying that they’d taken his Babashka (Daddy) away. He was shaking and crying hysterically.
Scorpius wrote:Oh, interesting. My post with the analysis of JIT lies about flight MH17 was immediately removed from the forum. Surprisingly democratic!
P.S.Anyone can go and read about why JIT gave out false evidence at the last press conference: http://mh17.webtalk.ru/viewtopic.php?id=489&p=16
Scorpius wrote:Oh, interesting. My post with the analysis of JIT lies about flight MH17 was immediately removed from the forum. Surprisingly democratic!
P.S.Anyone can go and read about why JIT gave out false evidence at the last press conference: http://mh17.webtalk.ru/viewtopic.php?id=489&p=16
atcsundevil wrote:Scorpius wrote:Oh, interesting. My post with the analysis of JIT lies about flight MH17 was immediately removed from the forum. Surprisingly democratic!
P.S.Anyone can go and read about why JIT gave out false evidence at the last press conference: http://mh17.webtalk.ru/viewtopic.php?id=489&p=16
A lot of posts were deleted because they contained personal attacks, which then led to a lot of referenced post deletions. Surprisingly simple explanation — all you had to do was ask.
Scorpius wrote:There were no personal attacks on anyone in that message.
Scorpius wrote:I'm in this thread represent the views of the citizen of Russia on the events - this theme is created by me, and I don't see why I should tolerate insults towards Russia and deliberate lie, designed to put my country in a negative light.
Scorpius wrote:If you under "freedom of speech" to understand the limitation of any objectionable to you opinion, then just say so.
Scorpius wrote:atcsundevil wrote:Scorpius wrote:Oh, interesting. My post with the analysis of JIT lies about flight MH17 was immediately removed from the forum. Surprisingly democratic!
P.S.Anyone can go and read about why JIT gave out false evidence at the last press conference: http://mh17.webtalk.ru/viewtopic.php?id=489&p=16
A lot of posts were deleted because they contained personal attacks, which then led to a lot of referenced post deletions. Surprisingly simple explanation — all you had to do was ask.
There were no personal attacks on anyone in that message. There has been a listing of arguments as to why JIT's performance is a false piece of information, an attempt to fabricate evidence, and a question to Dutchy as to why he is bringing false information here. I recommend that you read Dutchy's posts on this topic in more detail before you thoughtlessly respond to "a large number of complaints." I'm in this thread represent the views of the citizen of Russia on the events - this theme is created by me, and I don't see why I should tolerate insults towards Russia and deliberate lie, designed to put my country in a negative light. Note-I react precisely on false information, not on "negative information." If you under "freedom of speech" to understand the limitation of any objectionable to you opinion, then just say so.
atcsundevil wrote:Scorpius wrote:There were no personal attacks on anyone in that message.
The post you're referring to contained a referenced post that was deleted. By our rules, posts that are deleted for infringing the rules must also have replies to that post deleted. It's the only way to remove the offending content, because we don't edit posts.Scorpius wrote:I'm in this thread represent the views of the citizen of Russia on the events - this theme is created by me, and I don't see why I should tolerate insults towards Russia and deliberate lie, designed to put my country in a negative light.
This isn't the way this site operates. You don't own a thread just because you created it. You can represent whatever you wish, but what you will and will not tolerate is not of our concern. Our concern is ensuring users follow the rules.Scorpius wrote:If you under "freedom of speech" to understand the limitation of any objectionable to you opinion, then just say so.
"Freedom of speech" refers to government infringement of speech. This terminology does not apply to private entities like this site. We allow users to express their opinions provided the rules are followed. We don't censor users for their opinions, but we reserve the right to delete any content that we deem violates our rules. My opinion on the subject is irrelevant, because my role is to ensure that users are following our rules. Plain and simple.
Scorpius wrote:atcsundevil wrote:Scorpius wrote:There were no personal attacks on anyone in that message.
The post you're referring to contained a referenced post that was deleted. By our rules, posts that are deleted for infringing the rules must also have replies to that post deleted. It's the only way to remove the offending content, because we don't edit posts.Scorpius wrote:I'm in this thread represent the views of the citizen of Russia on the events - this theme is created by me, and I don't see why I should tolerate insults towards Russia and deliberate lie, designed to put my country in a negative light.
This isn't the way this site operates. You don't own a thread just because you created it. You can represent whatever you wish, but what you will and will not tolerate is not of our concern. Our concern is ensuring users follow the rules.Scorpius wrote:If you under "freedom of speech" to understand the limitation of any objectionable to you opinion, then just say so.
"Freedom of speech" refers to government infringement of speech. This terminology does not apply to private entities like this site. We allow users to express their opinions provided the rules are followed. We don't censor users for their opinions, but we reserve the right to delete any content that we deem violates our rules. My opinion on the subject is irrelevant, because my role is to ensure that users are following our rules. Plain and simple.
OK, don't take this as a personal claim against you. I just don't understand all the nuances of your rules at the moment. English is not my native language, and google-translator often translates with great distortion.If I understand you correctly, posts from Dutchy that contain provocative or offensive content should simply be sent to a moderator.
Dutchy wrote:because you can't deal with the freedom of speech and you continue to go back to your Putin bubble you seem to live in.
[/quote][/quote]Your country owned the missile that downed MH17, that is a fact, not a negative light. Your country annexed Crimea against international law, that is a fact, not a negative light etc. etc. etc.
Scorpius wrote:Maybe you do not know, but in General ALL the complexes of "BUK" and missiles to them were somehow produced in Russia. That does not prevent them from being currently in service such countries as Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, Finland, Venezuela, Egypt, Cyprus, Georgia, Syria.
And when JIT at a press conference makes a statement like " Shock! Sensational! The rocket was made in Russia, which means the Russians are guilty!", a sane Russian will shrug his shoulders, and say something like: "here are idiots, they are confused four years guessed that the rocket is made in Russia." Because all these missiles were produced at the plants, which are located on the territory of Russia.
Scorpius wrote:At the same time, the inscriptions in Russian, which are visible on the samples presented, speak clearly: the missile was produced in 1986. The service life of the missile may not exceed 25 years, taking into account two extensions of 5 years each. After these 25 years, the missiles are either decommissioned or fired during the exercise. Seriously, do you really think anyone would risk using a missile that could detonate just in preparation for launch?
Scorpius wrote:If the Russian military had decided to provide the rebels with BUK systems, they would have taken care to ensure that the warheads of such complexes fully correspond to the warheads in Ukraine's armament. Or do you think that the Russian military was not aware of what modification of missiles is in service of the Ukrainian troops?
Apparently, the Russian military did, since the missile that shot the MH17 down was not equipped with a Ukraine warhead. That is a fact now. So I don't know why you bring this up.Scorpius wrote:If JIT was interested in the most objective investigation - this group would include representatives of Russia, and the investigation itself should have been conducted as transparently as possible. Instead, I observe that in the European press, a few hours after the disaster, Russians were accused categorically, JIT refuses to interact with the official Russian structures, and the case materials are as secret as possible. And now, after FOUR YEARS(!!!) we spread some pieces of iron with the words "we have such awesome evidence, but we will not show them to you, because it is a secret." And then run to call the Russian Embassy, to persuade Russian to take the blame for the Downing of MH17. I'm even tired of remembering that violated all possible rules and regulations of investigative and operational work.
Why would Russia has to be included? Following their own statement, they had nothing to do with it, they are not present in Eastern Ukraine, they did not supply any military grade weapons to Eastern Ukranian rebels? So what expertise did they have to offer? All expertise needed, was indeed asked to the company that made the BUK or any other evidence the Russians brought to the table was analyzed and either taken into account or proven to be false thus dismissed. All conclusions are given to the Russian to react to, before they are final, also with these conclusions, Russia has yet to react. Macron did push Putin at their meeting about it though.
Now that it is proven that Russia was less than candor, not revealing that it was a Russian military missile and that Russia is the one being accused it is not logical to include them into the investigation into Russia and Russian military and citizens as well as Russian backed Ukrainian rebels.
If you say Ukraine is included and therefore it can never be objective, two things:
- Ukraine gave jurisdiction to the Dutch, while they didn't have to do that;
- Dutch prosecutors are objective, already gave you the peer-reviewed list which compares international justice systems which proofs that.
The JIT has made a lot of evidence publicly available. But more importantly, they have to prove their case in court, not the public opinion. It doesn't matter what the western press is saying. Till now, the Dutch government has never commented if Russia was responsible, until now, now they have made the unprecedented step to formally accuse the Russian Federation, a big step. Russia has accused Ukraine a lot of times, but never took official steps towards it.
You can draw any conclusion you want, four years of investigation and the reputation of the people involved tells me they have done a though job and only reveal something when they know something without any reasonable doubts especially since everything is taken under a microscope in Russia.Scorpius wrote:Let me remind you that the version that THE mh17 was allegedly shot down by a new modification of the missile is based on the presentation of photographs of heavily deformed rusty debris "reminiscent of the I-beam." I will tell you a secret-such "I-beams" can be scored on any Russian range - because they are scattered by thousands after the training shooting. At the same time, we have no references to the location of "elements similar to the I-beam", there is no evidence of witnesses who would confirm that these elements were found at the crash site of MH17. I continue to lead the list of coincidences and surprising discoveries made by the JIT?
Scorpius wrote:Dutchy wrote:because you can't deal with the freedom of speech and you continue to go back to your Putin bubble you seem to live in.
The opponent's baseless accusation of presenting an allegedly paid point of view or spreading propaganda, Dutchy, is a severe insult in the vast majority of cultures. I will note that you continue to insult me personally with your statements that are not based on any facts at all. You just don't like what I say about Russia, that's why you're trying me with a forum to delete by any means.
Russian football hooligans threaten to stab gay and transgender England fans at the World Cup
> Pride In Football, an alliance of LGBT fan groups, said it received death threats
> They said they received emails warning them LGBT fans will be targeted
> English and Russian football fans violently clashed during Euro 2016 tournament
Russian football hooligans have reportedly threatened to attack gay and transgender England fans at the World Cup next month.
Pride In Football, an alliance of LGBT football fan groups, said some of the death threats it has received has been so unnerving that they have reported them to police.
Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko shot dead in Kiev
Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko has died after being shot at his home in Kiev, according to police.
Mr Babchenko, 41, was reportedly found bleeding in their apartment block by his wife and died in an ambulance.
After writing about a crashed Russian military plane in 2016, Mr Babchenko said he received death threats and left his home country.
He previously worked as a presenter on Ukrainian channel ATR TV, and has written about his military service.
Ukrainian law enforcement confirmed his death in a Facebook post, written in Ukrainian.
Kiev police chief Andriy Kryshchenko also told the media they suspected Mr Babchenko was killed due to his "professional activities".
Dutchy wrote:Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko shot dead in Kiev
Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko has died after being shot at his home in Kiev, according to police.
Mr Babchenko, 41, was reportedly found bleeding in their apartment block by his wife and died in an ambulance.
After writing about a crashed Russian military plane in 2016, Mr Babchenko said he received death threats and left his home country.
He previously worked as a presenter on Ukrainian channel ATR TV, and has written about his military service.
Ukrainian law enforcement confirmed his death in a Facebook post, written in Ukrainian.
Kiev police chief Andriy Kryshchenko also told the media they suspected Mr Babchenko was killed due to his "professional activities".
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44296672
This journalist was in Kiev after he felt his life was threatened in Russia. He is a known to be critical of the Putin regime. If Russia is involved is unknown.
Dutchy wrote:Ok, he was not a nice man I get that, that is not the point. He was killed and aren't you curious who did it?
