treetreeseven
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:42 am

The level of lunacy, racism, disturbing holocausty proposals, dismissal of potentially lethal "externalities," and magical thinking in this thread is astounding.

There is no way compatible with human rights and civil liberties to bring the population to a sustainable level with even a Western European level of consumption, which is frugal by American standards.

Fortunately, we won't have to. If we don't accidentally "prune" the population (as one particularly disturbing individual said) through war or ecological collapse or out of control technology we haven't foreseen, a plague will handle it. The human race is a genetic monoculture compared to any other multicellular species with as large a population, making us particularly vulnerable.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:17 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe, bang goes that theory.


Sweden and Norway have very high rates of immigration though. Is the rise in birth rates down to that? Somalis and Pakistanis make up two of the biggest migrant groups in Norway and I know in the UK South East Asian families from places like Pakistan and India tend to have a larger number of offspring. Wouldn't shock me if that has pushed the birth rate figures up.


Norway has cut immigration drastically, and it was never the open that Sweden is .
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:45 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Prince William says Earth has too many people - is he right and what can be done?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/prince-william-warns-that-there-are-too-many-people-in-the-world/ar-AAunY4Z




Conspiracy theorists are having a field day :rotfl: . Conspiracy theorists have been claiming for years that "the elite" want population reduction and are conducting sinister operations in order to achieve those goals. Conspiracy theorists claim that the elite are responsible for HIV in Africa among other viruses. They also claim that the elite want a WW3 to help things along. :spin:
 
na
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:59 pm

Of course he is right.
Thats the main problem behind the climate change. Everybody wants and deserves to have a moderately comfortable life, which means, every additional human will make matters worse. Think about just one billion more people eating meat - how many emissions does that mean? It won´t help for 1% if the dutch or Swiss, or even Brits or Germans turn to E-Cars.
Look at China, that overpopulated country alone is responsible for 1/4 of the worlds emissions!
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:50 pm

I am not having children!

Am I doing the correct thing?
Do I get an A-net pat on the back?

No Tax On Rotax
For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:34 am

notaxonrotax wrote:
I am not having children!

Am I doing the correct thing?
Do I get an A-net pat on the back?


That depends; are you male or female? :scratchchin:

(You don't have to answer that question, but you've got to admit, it does make a difference)
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bgm
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:56 am

This is one seriously dark corner of a.net.

Heading back to the Trump threads for some much needed light-hearted relief. ;)
"When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat." -George Carlin
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:09 am

notaxonrotax wrote:
I am not having children!

Am I doing the correct thing?
Do I get an A-net pat on the back?

No Tax On Rotax


You sure do from me. I'm never having kids, though I really do think it's a shame that my superior genetics won't be passed along.

When I ascend to rule the world, do you want to be my Minister of Aviation? I'll need a good one, with the vision and wherewithal to oversee the creation of civilian spaceplanes capable of making the Earth to Mars journey within 2 weeks with direct abort capability at 90% to final destination (a hedge in case we lose control of the Mars colony, we need to immediately stop the flow of any equipment or materials to the planet and impose a blockade and begin orbital bombardment immediately).
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:27 am

treetreeseven wrote:
There is no way compatible with human rights and civil liberties to bring the population to a sustainable level with even a Western European level of consumption, which is frugal by American standards.

Fortunately, we won't have to. If we don't accidentally "prune" the population (as one particularly disturbing individual said) through war or ecological collapse or out of control technology we haven't foreseen, a plague will handle it. The human race is a genetic monoculture compared to any other multicellular species with as large a population, making us particularly vulnerable.


Indeed. Wouldn't it be more civilized to conduct this great 'dying' in a controlled manner? Think of it, in the span of just 10 years, we can eliminate hunger, poverty and widespread desperation of humanity. And those who don't submit serenely to, let's call it evacuation, and manage to survive a few rounds with the evacuataors, should be recognized as superior specimens of human and allowed to live. There's absolutely room for appeal and for exceptional individuals to work their way through this, admittedly arbitrary framework.

But at the end of the day, it is arbitrary. No less so than any plague. But plagues don't care if you're an exceptional human who deserves to live. I do.

Yes, it's incompatible with human rights and civil liberties. But surely it's more compassionate than a plague wiping out everyone at random, potentially taking everyone with it.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:31 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe...


Does it come from the indigenous population?
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:03 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe...


Does it come from the indigenous population?

Maybe the long winter nights have something to do with it. Finland, Iceland and Greenland also have relatively high birth rates.

But then there is France...........
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:18 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe...


Does it come from the indigenous population?


I think a lot of it does, in my we corner of Norway there are piss all immigrants, most families I know have two or more children, three is the average in my street.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:59 am

BobPatterson wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe...


Does it come from the indigenous population?

Maybe the long winter nights have something to do with it. Finland, Iceland and Greenland also have relatively high birth rates.

But then there is France...........


Google "Ireland" + "contraception"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contracep ... of_Ireland
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Bongodog1964
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:22 am

If he has such a strong viewpoint it might have been better if he and his wife had stopped at two children themselves. As it stands he has thrown himself open to completely valid cries of "hypocrite"
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:00 pm

Bongodog1964 wrote:
If he has such a strong viewpoint it might have been better if he and his wife had stopped at two children themselves. As it stands he has thrown himself open to completely valid cries of "hypocrite"

The goal is wide open, the player scores, and yet the crowd is somehow unimpressed.

Are intelligent people barred from commenting about lack of education for the masses?
Are first world countries unable to advise the third-world how best to proceed?
Are white people disqualified from sympathisizing with what it is to be black?
Do women frequently suggest how men should behave? :duck:

Actually, those last two might be somewhat contentious.
But a good idea is a good idea is still a good idea.
The fact that I might not have followed my own good advice is regrettable, but not necessarily relevant.
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Aesma
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:30 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe...


Does it come from the indigenous population?

Maybe the long winter nights have something to do with it. Finland, Iceland and Greenland also have relatively high birth rates.

But then there is France...........


My family is half native (mother is Italian). On my mother's side they're 8 siblings. They were born mostly in Italy, the youngest in France. Raised in France, 4 went back to Italy, 4 stayed in France. Result, I've got 11 cousins and 2 siblings in France, 3 cousins in Italy. The 14 French have each two children or on the way to it, or more (except me, but I want children too). The 3 cousins in Italy, 0 children.

Italy and France are quite close culturally, Italy is supposedly a bit more religious, yet they've literally stopped making children. And that's not to help the planet ! Now, unemployment and lack of perspectives, that's another story, my three Italian cousins have a good education and can't get a job better than waitress or internships.
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VSMUT
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:21 am

Siren wrote:
The planet cannot sustain double the population - it cannot sustain the current population. It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy.


The premise was that the planet can't sustain the future population growth. It can. Whether or not it can sustain your lifestyle in the process is a matter of policy, and personally I don't care about that point. I just wouldn't want to be among the 1% or 5% with such a lifestyle when Africa, South America and Asia decide that they need those resources for themselves though, and those resources generally tend to come from those regions.

Siren wrote:
Duchy wrote:
I think the key sentence in your remarks is: "It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy." --> the west and America leading that. So we can change our lifestyle to life at par with our planet. Or you can be selfish and continue that lifestyle and kill the rest because you want to life like you want to life.


You know what I did today? I went out, and filled my 500 horsepower supercharged V8 powered muscle car with 22 gallons/83 liters of petrol, and then I burned about 5 gallons all while getting 15 miles to the gallon, basking in the leather seats and air conditioning in my 4,000 pound metal cocoon, my personal monument to the ingenuity of humanity.


Yawn. In 10 years you will be all over the latest electrical vehicles from Germany, leather seats and air conditioning included, and you will be bragging about how you just unplugged your car, your personal monument to the ingenuity of humanity...

na wrote:
Of course he is right.
Thats the main problem behind the climate change. Everybody wants and deserves to have a moderately comfortable life, which means, every additional human will make matters worse. Think about just one billion more people eating meat - how many emissions does that mean? It won´t help for 1% if the dutch or Swiss, or even Brits or Germans turn to E-Cars.
Look at China, that overpopulated country alone is responsible for 1/4 of the worlds emissions!


Actually, it does. The market follows the money, and that is based in rich countries like the Netherlands, China, Switzerland, the UK and Germany at the moment. It is only a matter of time before auto technology swings completely over to various electrical solutions. Even China has recognized the potential for electrical vehicles, and in some fields have taken the lead. Electrical cars also have numerous advantages over their predecessors that make them highly attractive for car manufacturers. They are mechanically much simpler, cheaper to build and require a smaller workforce, among other things.

Renewable energy sources are also growing much faster than anticipated, and again, are proving far more attractive for developing nations. Laying down massive solar energy or wind farms is much cheaper than building conventional power plants, complete with the entire supply chain required for it.

We tend to believe that the developing world is going to pass through a stages in development like that we passed through. Fact is, the developing world is skipping it completely and moving on to the future. Just like they skipped credit cards and moved onto mobile payment solutions over 15 years ago.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:41 am

VSMUT wrote:
Siren wrote:
The planet cannot sustain double the population - it cannot sustain the current population. It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy.


The premise was that the planet can't sustain the future population growth. It can. Whether or not it can sustain your lifestyle in the process is a matter of policy, and personally I don't care about that point. I just wouldn't want to be among the 1% or 5% with such a lifestyle when Africa, South America and Asia decide that they need those resources for themselves though, and those resources generally tend to come from those regions.


:checkmark: Such selfish people, if we cannot deliver the same level of luxury in a sustainable way, then it will be finished with that lifestyle, one way or another. So we need innovation to sustain it. I, my self, am an optimist, so I think we will strive for the same lifestyle and continue to enjoy it.

VSMUT wrote:
Siren wrote:
Duchy wrote:
I think the key sentence in your remarks is: "It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy." --> the west and America leading that. So we can change our lifestyle to life at par with our planet. Or you can be selfish and continue that lifestyle and kill the rest because you want to life like you want to life.


You know what I did today? I went out, and filled my 500 horsepower supercharged V8 powered muscle car with 22 gallons/83 liters of petrol, and then I burned about 5 gallons all while getting 15 miles to the gallon, basking in the leather seats and air conditioning in my 4,000 pound metal cocoon, my personal monument to the ingenuity of humanity.


Yawn. In 10 years you will be all over the latest electrical vehicles from Germany, leather seats and air conditioning included, and you will be bragging about how you just unplugged your car, your personal monument to the ingenuity of humanity...


:checkmark: And I do wish Siren would print this quote out and hang it over his bed or better, I hope that he will give me his address and I will send it to him in 10 ears time, let's see if he is going to hang his head in shame. A bit like confronting a former slave owner 100 years after abolishing slavery.

VSMUT wrote:
na wrote:
Of course he is right.
Thats the main problem behind the climate change. Everybody wants and deserves to have a moderately comfortable life, which means, every additional human will make matters worse. Think about just one billion more people eating meat - how many emissions does that mean? It won´t help for 1% if the dutch or Swiss, or even Brits or Germans turn to E-Cars.
Look at China, that overpopulated country alone is responsible for 1/4 of the worlds emissions!


Actually, it does. The market follows the money, and that is based in rich countries like the Netherlands, China, Switzerland, the UK and Germany at the moment. It is only a matter of time before auto technology swings completely over to various electrical solutions. Even China has recognized the potential for electrical vehicles, and in some fields have taken the lead. Electrical cars also have numerous advantages over their predecessors that make them highly attractive for car manufacturers. They are mechanically much simpler, cheaper to build and require a smaller workforce, among other things.

Renewable energy sources are also growing much faster than anticipated, and again, are proving far more attractive for developing nations. Laying down massive solar energy or wind farms is much cheaper than building conventional power plants, complete with the entire supply chain required for it.

We tend to believe that the developing world is going to pass through a stages in development like that we passed through. Fact is, the developing world is skipping it completely and moving on to the future. Just like they skipped credit cards and moved onto mobile payment solutions over 15 years ago.


China is quite interesting, it is taking a leading role in the electrification of everything, China is playing the long game (and polluting is also done for the western world, we buy their goods so it is a bit hypocritical as a European or American to point to China as a major polluter and per capita they are not the major pollutor, remember they have four times the number of people). And Chine already decided not to build 100 coal-fired power plants, so they are on their way.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:51 pm

Dutchy wrote:

:checkmark: And I do wish Siren would print this quote out and hang it over his bed or better, I hope that he will give me his address and I will send it to him in 10 ears time, let's see if he is going to hang his head in shame. A bit like confronting a former slave owner 100 years after abolishing slavery.



Check your private messages.

I will be the first to eat my words, and celebrate when I'm wrong and the market delivers! Believe me, I want to be wrong.

And for Christ sake, you guys have only been getting it wrong for 11 years now, but I'm not a guy. There is no he, him, or any male pronoun associated with me, as last time I checked between my legs I did not have the prerequisite components that generally lead to that classification...
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:04 pm

Siren wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

:checkmark: And I do wish Siren would print this quote out and hang it over his bed or better, I hope that he will give me his address and I will send it to him in 10 ears time, let's see if he is going to hang his head in shame. A bit like confronting a former slave owner 100 years after abolishing slavery.



Check your private messages.

I will be the first to eat my words, and celebrate when I'm wrong and the market delivers! Believe me, I want to be wrong.

And for Christ sake, you guys have only been getting it wrong for 11 years now, but I'm not a guy. There is no he, him, or any male pronoun associated with me, as last time I checked between my legs I did not have the prerequisite components that generally lead to that classification...


Well played and will see in 10 years time, keep me posted if you are going to move?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:09 pm

Dutchy wrote:

Well played and will see in 10 years time, keep me posted if you are going to move?


Absolutely. Anyway, if I do move, I'll probably make a big deal about it here - something about emigrating to Europe. That's the only way I'm ever abandoning California - if the current 'Germany 1935' environment in the United States progresses to 'Germany 1939', and I need to bail out. And if I do need to bail out, I'll be making a lot of noise...
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:18 pm

Siren wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Well played and will see in 10 years time, keep me posted if you are going to move?


Absolutely. Anyway, if I do move, I'll probably make a big deal about it here - something about emigrating to Europe. That's the only way I'm ever abandoning California - if the current 'Germany 1935' environment in the United States progresses to 'Germany 1939', and I need to bail out. And if I do need to bail out, I'll be making a lot of noise...



Oh, I am sure you are welcome in Europe ;-).
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:41 am

Dutchy wrote:
China is quite interesting, it is taking a leading role in the electrification of everything, China is playing the long game (and polluting is also done for the western world, we buy their goods so it is a bit hypocritical as a European or American to point to China as a major polluter and per capita they are not the major pollutor, remember they have four times the number of people). And Chine already decided not to build 100 coal-fired power plants, so they are on their way.


China is very interesting when it comes to renewables. Note the electrical BYD busses that AMS airport uses these days. That particular model is really gaining traction in the west.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:09 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
China is quite interesting, it is taking a leading role in the electrification of everything, China is playing the long game (and polluting is also done for the western world, we buy their goods so it is a bit hypocritical as a European or American to point to China as a major polluter and per capita they are not the major pollutor, remember they have four times the number of people). And Chine already decided not to build 100 coal-fired power plants, so they are on their way.


China is very interesting when it comes to renewables. Note the electrical BYD busses that AMS airport uses these days. That particular model is really gaining traction in the west.


Sure, we have VLD in the Netherlands whom also build an electric version of their busses. I think that is a good way forward, get rid of fossil fuel exhaust in small European cities with a basic city plan dating back centuries and even millennia. I think in a few years time we will look back at fossil-fueled cars/motors in cities as we do know of smoking in airplanes for instance. Why did we ever allow that to happen?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Pyrex
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:18 pm

Maybe his ilk should stop trying to prevent starving Africans from feeding themselves with food that can actually produce a decent yield in their barren fields just because they are "GMO" (as if the rest of the food wasn't)? That would be a start to solve the "problem" of over-population.

Also funny that whenever the topic of over-population comes to mind, Africa seems to be the first thing on the neo-Malthusians mind, not Asia, where over half the world's population lives. Tells you something...
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VSMUT
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:57 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Maybe his ilk should stop trying to prevent starving Africans from feeding themselves with food that can actually produce a decent yield in their barren fields just because they are "GMO" (as if the rest of the food wasn't)? That would be a start to solve the "problem" of over-population.

Also funny that whenever the topic of over-population comes to mind, Africa seems to be the first thing on the neo-Malthusians mind, not Asia, where over half the world's population lives. Tells you something...


That GMO's produce a greater yield is in practice nonsense. By far the majority of genetically modified crops being peddled by the likes of Monsanto haven't been developed to increase yields, but rather to increase reliance on the accompanying pesticides (and not even any generic pesticide, but one particular copyrighted brand that sells at a premium). Sure, you could achieve greater yields with GMOs, but that isn't what big businesses like Monsanto are doing.

Far more would be achieved by simply industrialising agriculture, diversifying and focusing on less water intensive crops.

That Africa pops up as number 1 is only natural. Thats where the majority of the planets future population growth is going to take place. Asia still has a lot of growth left, but is slowly beginning to top out. By 2050, Nigeria is fast on the way to half a billion people, up from "just" 186 million. Some estimates put up to 2 billion more people across Africa by 2050.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:20 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Also funny that whenever the topic of over-population comes to mind, Africa seems to be the first thing on the neo-Malthusians mind, not Asia, where over half the world's population lives. Tells you something...

I don't know whether I qualify as a neo-Malthusian; I am equally perturbed by population excesses in Africa, Asia, and Europe.
However, the global equation is surely made up of both where people live, and where people are coming from. Let us not forget that a good portion of Africans don't live in Africa any more!
Maybe the same could be said for Asians?

And maybe this is what is on most people's minds when they focus on Africa?

Image

Asia may well have half the world's population at present, but in many Asian countries the numbers are relatively stable if the birth rate stats are accurate.
The hot spot for population growth rate is the variety of pretty colours throughout sub-Saharan Africa.

Hot spots for population growth per se are less obvious from the map, as that requires knowledge of starting numbers + fertility rates. By this measure, India, Pakistan, & Bangladesh are major contributors at 2-3 births per female and starting with their already large populations. Also Indonesia & Philippines are both sizeable countries with higher rates. And Afghanistan too, with a lower population (35mill) but a red-zone 5-6 births per female. The other countries highlighted in green or yellow are mostly lower starting populations and thus have a lesser effect on the global total.

So the problem, if one is allowed to describe it as a problem, centres on most of sub-Saharan Africa, and the parts of Asia defined by the UN as "Southern Asia" and "Southeast Asia"

FYI France & Mexico are only marginally in the green zone and therefore not statistically significant. Unfortunately racial and ethnic censuses have been banned by the French government since 1978, so it is impossible to say whether France's current increased birth rate is due mainly to a large number of African immigrants having more than two children each. Indeed one cannot even be sure that there are a large number of African immigrants; in 2014 France estimated it had 3.5–8 million approx., which from a statistical viewpoint is useless. :roll:
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:45 pm

7-8 births per female? How is that even possible? Jeebus.

Realistically, we need to start offering contraception to anyone who wants it in the developing world. And abortions. Also, regarding contraception, I'm in favor of more permanent options... like a program to equip every woman on Earth with an IUD once they reach the age that they can biologically reproduce. Essentially this would mean there would be zero unplanned pregnancies. IUDs aren't too expensive, and the copper ones can last essentially for life...
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:08 pm

Siren wrote:
7-8 births per female? How is that even possible? Jeebus.

Ahem; that's an average
By the time you have allowed for younger women who are infertile, others who died whilst in childbirth-labour at the first attempt, and others who simply trod on a land-mine, who knows what the actual figures are. Maybe all these factors are already included. That just leaves us with the thought that for every "sensible" young lady who manages to persuade her husband to stop at two, there is another who is producing 14 in order to keep the averages up.

Then again, statistics should never be trusted. It's probably all lies.
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:24 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Siren wrote:
7-8 births per female? How is that even possible? Jeebus.

Ahem; that's an average
.


Yes, I know. Which is why it's so stunning. It means you've got some women popping out 15-20 kids, as you said. It totally qualifies my Jeebus comment.

And it's clear what happens in the third world: in lieu of anything better to do - lack of first world amenities and first world problems results in copious amounts of sex. And thanks to the efforts of many religious organizations, it is unprotected sex, spreading AIDS and producing children.

Seriously, stick an IUD in every woman in Africa and watch the problem disappear...
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:45 pm

Siren wrote:
Seriously, stick an IUD in every woman in Africa and watch the problem disappear...

..... or form vasectomy battalions.

March them off.

Snip 'em.

Tattoo 'em "Childproof"

Let 'em loose again.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:02 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Siren wrote:
Seriously, stick an IUD in every woman in Africa and watch the problem disappear...

..... or form vasectomy battalions.

March them off.

Snip 'em.

Tattoo 'em "Childproof"

Let 'em loose again.


Exactly. You've got the idea!

And let me expand my statement, stick an IUD in every woman. Everywhere. Period.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
apodino
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:41 pm

Siren wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Siren wrote:
Seriously, stick an IUD in every woman in Africa and watch the problem disappear...

..... or form vasectomy battalions.

March them off.

Snip 'em.

Tattoo 'em "Childproof"

Let 'em loose again.


Exactly. You've got the idea!

And let me expand my statement, stick an IUD in every woman. Everywhere. Period.

Even an IUD isn't 100 percent reliable for pregnancy prevention. There are only two guaranteed methods that are. Castration, and Coitus Interruptus. Just throwing that out there. One worry I have about IUD or other forms of contraception is the potential side effects and harm of some of these methods which are known but tend to get buried and lost in the debate. Some methods of contraception are actually classified as carcinogens by the World Health Organization. There are other worries that I have as well. And most of the women I know and hang out with are the ones who have pointed these out and brought to my attention.

As for the original statement, I don't know if there is a such thing as too many people or if there is if we are at that point yet. What I do believe is that there are enough resources on the planet right now that will sustain the entire population. The reason we have poverty in this world is too many people who have access to these resources hoard them and do not share them with the less fortunate. This is especially true in Africa, where corruption runs rampant.

One other thing I see is many western countries have birth rates that are so low they are insufficient to replace the people already here. This is problematic on a number of fronts. Lets take Social Security for example. If the US were to have a low birth rate, then you would get to a point where more people would be collecting Social Security than would be paying into the system. That cannot be sustained. Japan right now has a huge problem with its population aging. Many countries in Europe are like this, especially Germany and France. One group that is reproducing at an large rate, Muslims.

That being said, if we do bring children in the world, we have a big responsibility to bring them up in a loving manner and to instill good values and work ethic in them. This is another problem we have in our society, is too many of the children are brought into the world and not cared for, and it has had drastic consequences. If people don't feel they would be able to do this, they should not have children in the first place, and I respect Siren and other women and some men who recognize this in themselves.
 
Flighty
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:17 pm

It is actually interesting that peak population will be reached pretty soon. The number of children per woman in India has fallen from like 6 to 2. This is the most important single fact to consider. It is an immense achievement for India. And all other poor countries can replicate that, and likely will. This is not a year-to-year phenomenon but a 50-year process that is nonetheless very certain.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am

apodino wrote:
There are only two guaranteed methods that are. Castration, and Coitus Interruptus. Just throwing that out there..


I heard if she is jumping of a table repeatedly after, that also prevents pregnancy..... :lol:

Coitus interruptus has a Pearl-Index of between 4 and 30. Not using any contraception at all has a Pearl-Index of 30 to 80. An IUD has between zero and 0.08, which does not just make it the most reliable method of contraception, and just for the record more reliable than castration.

And that is basically 7th grade knowledge.....

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:51 am

I bet he also believes in abstinence !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:15 pm

Aesma wrote:
I bet he also believes in abstinence !


Which in a society that protects and elects sexual predators isn´t exactly safe either ...

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
slider
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:58 pm

Most Western nations are below replacement birth rates as it is; if there is an over-population problem (and let's be honest, we've heard this sky is falling crap since the 70s), it's not happening in first world countries.

But that's another very uncomfortable discussion to have...if one wants to have it earnestly.
 
Flighty
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:44 pm

Aesma wrote:
I bet he also believes in abstinence !


I was going to say, "I don't think coitus interruptus means what you think it means" :) Abstinence doesn't work, at the population level. It is not something humans can do. It is more of a fictional thing.
 
WIederling
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:36 pm

na wrote:
Look at China, that overpopulated country alone is responsible for 1/4 of the worlds emissions!


they present 1/5th of world population.
US 1/7th ( more than half of China) of emissions but from less than 1/20th of global population.)

Then a major part of Chinese emissions stem from producing stuff for America.
That pesky outsourcing, you know.
Murphy is an optimist
 
slider
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:53 pm

Replacement level is generally accepted to be 2.1 children born per female.

As a whole, the EU, USA and Canada have NATIVE birthrates below that. But this is what makes the immigration argument such a heated one as well: these countries are using it as a crutch to maintain sustainability for government entitlement programs.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphic ... ly-chart-6

This is a CURRENT study of European projections with and without migrants and is a fascinating, if not disturbing read.

The demographic timebomb on this planet isn't because we have too many humans per se, it's that the West is relying upon non-nativist immigration, with higher birth rates, and who don't assimilate.
 
WIederling
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:42 pm

slider wrote:
Replacement level is generally accepted to be 2.1 children born per female.

As a whole, the EU, USA and Canada have NATIVE birthrates below that.


Fairness would demand that you mention China @ 1.57 birth per female. Lower than US ( 1.84 )

India is at 2.6 afaik.
Murphy is an optimist
 
tommy1808
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:50 pm

slider wrote:
The demographic timebomb on this planet isn't because we have too many humans per se, it's that the West is relying upon non-nativist immigration, with higher birth rates, and who don't assimilate.


You need about 12.000 or so immigrants per year and million citizens to make up the shortfall of native populations not having any children at all, but they do have children. With birthrate of between 1 and 2 in much of the western world you don't need that much immigration. Germany would need only 250k/year to make up the native birth shortfall, even if they fall into the same reproductive rates from day one. That means 0.3%, and people living in Germany with a migration background would need some 12 generations to balance out at ~25% of the total. A good chunk of those families, I would estimate more than half, would then be living in Germany for so long that they are more German that each and everyone in the US is US Citizen.
We need immigration to sustain our system, we don't need them to not integrate. They do integrate here more than they do in the US, about 60% of migrant families speak German even at home amongst each other, opposed to just 40% in the US, almost half of those have learned German as the first and their "home" countries language only as a 2nd foreign language or not at all.
Reproductive rates level out at the 2nd or 3rd generation, so the number can actually be smaller.

Image

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 pm

Read another theory about completely cutting off immigration leads to inbreeding and genetic disorders become more prominent. Are there any examples support this theory, small remote islands, may be? AFAIK Japan is very closed country, they wouldn't even allow Japanese origins from other nations.
 
WIederling
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Read another theory about completely cutting off immigration leads to inbreeding and genetic disorders become more prominent. Are there any examples support this theory, small remote islands, may be? AFAIK Japan is very closed country, they wouldn't even allow Japanese origins from other nations.


Bavaria.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Read another theory about completely cutting off immigration leads to inbreeding and genetic disorders become more prominent. Are there any examples support this theory, small remote islands, may be? AFAIK Japan is very closed country, they wouldn't even allow Japanese origins from other nations.

"Island effect" and small founder populations have been well studied.

"Islands" exist within very large continental populations. Limiting gene flow into these islands based on religious or ethnic standards of "purity" have lead to numerous kinds of ailments and diseases.

Amish, Mennonite, and Hutterite Genetic Disorder Database: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3077314/

Judaism: Ashkenazi Jewish Genetic Diseases: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/as ... c-diseases

Genetic polymorphism and American Indian health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071720/

Many,many more examples can be found through Internet search.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6615
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:17 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Read another theory about completely cutting off immigration leads to inbreeding and genetic disorders become more prominent. Are there any examples support this theory, small remote islands, may be? AFAIK Japan is very closed country, they wouldn't even allow Japanese origins from other nations.


There are about a 500.000 times more people in Japan than humans existed in total during the last long genetic bottleneck, as a nation they are well within healthy herd size.
The whole native American population may have spread from less than 100 people before 1492.

As long as you as a society make it rare for closely related people to procreate, even small populations can do just fine.

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.

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