bmacleod
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Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:13 pm

Prince William says Earth has too many people - is he right and what can be done?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/prince-william-warns-that-there-are-too-many-people-in-the-world/ar-AAunY4Z
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787Driver
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:28 pm

Yes he is right. Nothing can be done. The best we can do is carpet bomb Africa with free condoms and teach them about protecting them when having sex.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:47 pm

787Driver wrote:
Yes he is right. Nothing can be done. The best we can do is carpet bomb Africa with free condoms and teach them about protecting them when having sex.


That is pretty much it, but unless we also somehow handle the mass mortality cheerleaders (=many religious groups), getting condoms to them won´t help that much.

It would be a good first step to strip charitable status from each and every organisation that condemns birth control regardless of reason, as they are clearly not charitable in any sense of the word.

best regards
Thomas
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BestWestern
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:52 pm

A bit rich from someone who has two children already. He must mean they shouldn’t have children.
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Aesma
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:07 pm

BestWestern wrote:
A bit rich from someone who has two children already. He must mean they shouldn’t have children.


And more on the way.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:15 pm

My view is that you should only have as many children as you can afford. There should be no state benefits/handout to support families, hard but fair.
Yes there are too many people on the planet, the human race is very distructive to its enviroment.
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Tugger
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:18 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
My view is that you should only have as many children as you can afford. There should be no state benefits/handout to support families, hard but fair.
Yes there are too many people on the planet, the human race is very distructive to its enviroment.

Well remember, people have a lot of children so they can afford to live and grow old. In most of the world more children mean more hands to till land or go out and work to help support the family. So I do not know you would structure such a rule to reduce the number of children one has.

Tugg
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tommy1808
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:46 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
My view is that you should only have as many children as you can afford. There should be no state benefits/handout to support families, hard but fair.


and the kids future employer gets that expensive to manufacture resource for free?

Of course it would be unfair if the first employer would repay the parents in full, unless the next company has to repay the first one fractionally. Or we set up a system to repay the parents in some form via some cooperative or insurance style system, where all employers have to pay some share of their profits to pay for the replenishment of their labor force. And of course there is the problem of compound interests, needlessly making labor resources more expensive for the employees. But since employers would basically pay a membership fee into that cooperative or insurance style system on a monthly/quarterly/annual base, we can avoid that compound interest trap by repaying them more or less as expenses incur. If course that would be a bureaucratic nightmare, maybe we can somehow generalize the amount to avoid that. We only need a name for the components of the system, maybe we can call the payments child benefit and the employer payments taxes? That has the right ring to it i think.

Also, what is your plan if people get pregnant without having the money to afford their children. Are you thinking more along the lines of forced abortions, or along the lines of letting those kids just starve to death after being born? Or will they be taken in government custody at tax payers expense?

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
bmacleod
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:51 pm

787Driver wrote:
Yes he is right. Nothing can be done. The best we can do is carpet bomb Africa with free condoms and teach them about protecting them when having sex.


Sadly it may take another few decades to get rid of the African warlords who still seem to have a tight grip on most of the continent.

Maybe I'm wrong but in their minds more babies = more soldiers and more people to control?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
PhilBy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:41 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
My view is that you should only have as many children as you can afford. There should be no state benefits/handout to support families, hard but fair.
Yes there are too many people on the planet, the human race is very distructive to its enviroment.


But in the UK it's normal. Many a woman on benefits decides to have another child so that she qualifies for a bigger house!
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:57 pm

I mean, he is right. Unfortunately nothing can be done.
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johns624
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:07 pm

Get rid of royalty leeches...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:10 pm

Two + One on the way. Already Seychelles vacation booked for the fourth one.

Yes, there is a problem.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:13 pm

9bn perhaps 10bn, if you truly want to do something about it, you might want to get some inspiration with Huti (Rwanda), Pol Pot, Stalin or Hitler, because you need to actually kill a lot of people. Africa will grow a lot, so yes there you can do something and get more close to two children per women, the rest of the world stabilizing or even will decrease. The number of children born has peaked in 2000's.

A worthwhile documentary about this subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E
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tommy1808
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
9bn perhaps 10bn,


Predictions from.the late 60s/early 70s said that, if perfect contraception would be available globally by 1975, earth population would level out at 15 bn people.

That sounds about right. However, the good news is that the world population is growing slower and slower, down from 1.55%/year in 1995 to 1.1%/year in 2016.

https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publication ... ndings.pdf

Best regards
Thomas
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:55 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
9bn perhaps 10bn,


Predictions from.the late 60s/early 70s said that, if perfect contraception would be available globally by 1975, earth population would level out at 15 bn people.

That sounds about right. However, the good news is that the world population is growing slower and slower, down from 1.55%/year in 1995 to 1.1%/year in 2016.

https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publication ... ndings.pdf

Best regards
Thomas


Watch the docu in the link and you will know everything you need to know. So William is saying some uneducated things here, not to smart.
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VSMUT
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:14 pm

No, he isn't right. The planet can easily sustain more than twice the current population.

Zimbabwe alone could feed half of Africa (when it was run by competent people). Africa is severely underutilized, and could easily sustain a few billion more people.

Food production is for the most part also extremely inefficient. Using modern methods (and I'm not even talking about GMOs or pesticides here), food production could be increased by magnitudes.

Energy consumption in the fast growing tropical regions of the planet is easily covered by solar power.

In my opinion, if this Prince thinks there are too many people on this planet, he should lead by example.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:26 am

Irresponsible proclamations come in all flavours......
December 23rd, 2014
Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has slammed those people who promote birth control and contraception methods in the country.
Addressing a wedding ceremony on Sunday, Erdogan said using contraceptive methods and birth control regime was a betrayal on the ambitions of Turkey to become a flourishing nation relying on its young population.
He said those who engage in birth control programs could cause a whole generation to dry up.
Calling for a more dynamic and younger population, the Turkish president said two children could not be enough, adding that the third and fourth children could mean balance and abundance for the family. Erdogan himself has two sons and two daughters


17 March 2017 • 6:34pm
Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has called on Turkey’s citizens in Europe to step up their rates of procreation and have five children each, saying a booming Turkish population would be the best answer to the EU’s “vulgarism, antagonism, and injustice”.
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:43 am

As Africa develops, you'll see the birth rate start to fall. The most developed countries tend to always have low birth rates (Japan, South Korea, the Scandinavian nations etc). No reason the same won't in Africa.

Also, who knows what technological developments will come down the line that allow the earth to sustain a much bigger population?
 
Pyrex
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:04 am

Maybe we can start by culling neo-Malthusian upper class twits?
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:22 am

VSMUT wrote:
No, he isn't right. The planet can easily sustain more than twice the current population.

Zimbabwe alone could feed half of Africa (when it was run by competent people). Africa is severely underutilized, and could easily sustain a few billion more people.

Food production is for the most part also extremely inefficient. Using modern methods (and I'm not even talking about GMOs or pesticides here), food production could be increased by magnitudes.

Energy consumption in the fast growing tropical regions of the planet is easily covered by solar power.

In my opinion, if this Prince thinks there are too many people on this planet, he should lead by example.


Are you willing to do some math to support your claims?

Add a few billion more people in Africa and then have Zimbabwe provide all of the food needs of, say, 2 billion people (half of them).

According to my World Almanac (1998 data) Zimbabwe has a land area of about 150,000 sq. mil., of which about 7% is arable. Let's be generous and double the arable area.

How many persons can Zimbabwe feed per arable acre or hectare?

You claim the planet can sustain double the current population. At what levels of consumption?

Do you think billions of people will be content in having (or not having) bicycles while many or most of us have automobiles?

Thanks for doing the math.
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VSMUT
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:33 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Are you willing to do some math to support your claims?


No need for maths, I have 20 years of real life experience from living and working in Africa. African agriculture is stuck in the stone age, they haven't industrialized at all. They still rely on manual labour, and due to tribal and cultural issues, fields get divided down between children, resulting in tiny productions. Most of Africa is still virgin territory, and is ripe for mass agriculture. Focus on more efficient crops rather than just corn or rice and the yield would be even greater.


BobPatterson wrote:
Add a few billion more people in Africa and then have Zimbabwe provide all of the food needs of, say, 2 billion people (half of them).


Who says Zimbabwe alone would have to provide it? Zimbabwe is a tiny country by African standards, and they could do the job back then. Throw in Zambia, Tanzania, Kenya, Mozambique, Malawi, Angola and the DRC along with the latest methods in agriculture, and you could feed the whole world several times over.


BobPatterson wrote:
You claim the planet can sustain double the current population. At what levels of consumption?


Obviously not wasteful American levels of consumption, but I never claimed such. They will have to be more progressive, but so will the west.


BobPatterson wrote:
Do you think billions of people will be content in having (or not having) bicycles while many or most of us have automobiles?


Which is why you have public transportation.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:09 pm

BestWestern wrote:
A bit rich from someone who has two children already. He must mean they shouldn’t have children.


I have three kids and I agree with him as well.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:13 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Add a few billion more people in Africa and then have Zimbabwe provide all of the food needs of, say, 2 billion people (half of them).

VSMUT wrote:
Who says Zimbabwe alone would have to provide it?.

Er...you did (VSMUT in post #17 above)
Bob was only responding to your initial comment.
Do try to keep up! :rotfl:
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Kiwirob
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:14 pm

johns624 wrote:
Get rid of royalty leeches...


Why, they cost the UK taxpayer about £1 pound per year, cheaper than what a President would cost. The are policitically neutral, IMO they are the ideal head of state, I doubt NZ would be better off if we were a republic.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:15 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Add a few billion more people in Africa and then have Zimbabwe provide all of the food needs of, say, 2 billion people (half of them).

VSMUT wrote:
Who says Zimbabwe alone would have to provide it?.

Er...you did (VSMUT in post #17 above)
Bob was only responding to your initial comment.
Do try to keep up! :rotfl:


No I didn't. I wrote:

Zimbabwe alone could feed half of Africa (when it was run by competent people).


Clearly referring to the past, in this case before the land reforms of 2000. But do try to keep up.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:24 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
As Africa develops, you'll see the birth rate start to fall. The most developed countries tend to always have low birth rates (Japan, South Korea, the Scandinavian nations etc). No reason the same won't in Africa.

Also, who knows what technological developments will come down the line that allow the earth to sustain a much bigger population?


Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe, bang goes that theory.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:45 pm

VSMUT wrote:
No I didn't. I wrote:

Zimbabwe alone could feed half of Africa (when it was run by competent people).


Clearly referring to the past, in this case before the land reforms of 2000. But do try to keep up.

My apologies if English is not your first language.
"Zimbabwe alone could feed half of Africa" = future tense.
i.e. It could, at some point in the future, if it was run by competent people.

"when it was run by competent people" is indeed past tense, but it is inconsistent with the first half of your statement.
"when it was run by competent people" implies that if Zimbabwe was run by them once again, at some point in the future......
But by hammering the fact that it is a past tense statement, you are also stating it as a historic fact. So, in what historic year did Zimbabwe feed half of Africa. Or, in what year did Zimbabwe create enough food to possibly feed half of Africa, even if it then exported that stockpile of food to Europe for $$$.

Either you are stating a historic fact.
Or you are proposing a future possibility.

You cannot have it both ways.
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flyguy89
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:36 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Maybe we can start by culling neo-Malthusian upper class twits?

Amen. How many times have we blown past predicted population bombs? By now we were supposed to have half of humanity starving to death from overpopulation and half of all species lost, yet not only has that NOT happened, but population has doubled while rates of chronic undernourishment have dropped from 33% to 11%. Humanity is expected to reach peak population at an estimated 8.2 billion within this century, and with continuing technological advancements and ever-improving farming, we'll all be just fine. But there will always be another crop of doomsday alarmists for a new generation.
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:05 pm

The planet cannot sustain double the population - it cannot sustain the current population. It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy.

With so many humans, well, the specific value of any one life is rather low, isn't it? Even though it'll never be done, to save Earth, and save the human race from collapse and losing our industrial infrastructure, I would, if in charge, simply order the extermination of vast swaths of humanity. It's a terrible thing, but it needs to be done. Everything will be lost if it's not done. They have to die so that humanity itself can persevere.

Those advocating that the planet is capable of supporting double the population are plain wrong. We've taken this planet to the abyss. Link below shows that over the last 27 years, the biomass of flying insects is down 75%. Those are the insects that we need to pollinate our crops. They're dying en masse.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0185809

Don't even get me started on global warming. Point is, we've destroyed, past tense, the planet, and seriously damaged its carrying capacity. That may not be readily apparent yet, but it will become clearer in the coming years as the warming really ramps up. The future is here, and it's a Blade Runner-esque dystopia.

And we need a scifi future dictator, someone with the cojones like me, to simply come in, impose my will, ensure the survival of humanity, and 500 years after I'm overthrown, they'll still be counting the bodies. But there will still be a society to debate about it 500 years later. Because of me.
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Dutchy
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:55 pm

You have some seriously screwed value's, Siren. Like I said in #14, that would be the only way to reduce the number and not et up to 10bn/11bn.

I think the key sentence in your remarks is: "It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy." --> the west and America leading that. So we can change our lifestyle to life at par with our planet. Or you can be selfish and continue that lifestyle and kill the rest because you want to life like you want to life.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:02 pm

VSMUT wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Are you willing to do some math to support your claims?


No need for maths, ..........


O course there is no need for maths. There is also no need for unsupportable statements.

Zimbabwe is a relatively small country with a relatively small portion of arable land. It no doubt can, with efficient agriculture, manage to well feed its own people and, perhaps, some of its neighbors (basic food commodities, but not all foods desired by a modern population).

To claim it could feed half of Africa (in 1960, 2017 or any date you pluck out of thin air) strikes me as hyperbole.

Can you find any examples among the foremost food-producing nations to show that billions of people can be fed by farming 7% of 150,000 sq. mi.?

Facts are important.
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Redd
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:28 pm

I think the solution isn't that complicated, albeit quite controversial

- Stop trans-continental immigration worldwide. The places which are over populated at the moment will have no option for over spill to the EU, North America etc.,
- Bring strict self sufficiency laws in as a matter of food production. Without food imports/exports, geographical areas will have a very finite number of people they can sustain.
 
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787Driver
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:46 pm

Redd wrote:
I think the solution isn't that complicated, albeit quite controversial

- Stop trans-continental immigration worldwide. The places which are over populated at the moment will have no option for over spill to the EU, North America etc.,
- Bring strict self sufficiency laws in as a matter of food production. Without food imports/exports, geographical areas will have a very finite number of people they can sustain.


Completely agree. Demography is destiny.

Also stop selling drugs and medicines to underdeveloped countries. Sorry but it's causing population numbers to explode at an extremely unsustainable level.

Actually stop interfering in many parts of Africa completely.
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:18 pm

787Driver wrote:

Completely agree. Demography is destiny.

Also stop selling drugs and medicines to underdeveloped countries. Sorry but it's causing population numbers to explode at an extremely unsustainable level.


Not a terrible idea... the only real problem I see is that when a real plague or public health emergency occurs, it will spill into the western world and start spreading here.

The other issue with exploding birth rates is that people who would have died as children in pre-industrial times are now reproducing due to medical advances. This is essentially active de-evolution of the Human Race. We're dirtying the gene pool with this genetic code. And while I abhor most everything about the Nazis, I do not believe they were entirely wrongheaded about eugenics. They were just trying it before the science had matured enough to really make a proper go of it. It can be done now. Properly.

Duchy wrote:
I think the key sentence in your remarks is: "It can sustain about 1/3rd of the current population of humans at the current industrial lifestyle we enjoy." --> the west and America leading that. So we can change our lifestyle to life at par with our planet. Or you can be selfish and continue that lifestyle and kill the rest because you want to life like you want to life.


You know what I did today? I went out, and filled my 500 horsepower supercharged V8 powered muscle car with 22 gallons/83 liters of petrol, and then I burned about 5 gallons all while getting 15 miles to the gallon, basking in the leather seats and air conditioning in my 4,000 pound metal cocoon, my personal monument to the ingenuity of humanity.

So you know what I tell the kids who tell me I need to adjust my lifestyle? Damn you kids, mommy needs her air conditioning.

Everyone alive deserves this standard of living. It's not worth living without it. So, prune the population until everyone can enjoy the lifestyle the true modernity can offer. That's the golden ticket.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
11725Flyer
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:29 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Prince William says Earth has too many people - is he right and what can be done?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/prince-william-warns-that-there-are-too-many-people-in-the-world/ar-AAunY4Z


Time to get going on figuring out how to live on Mars.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:35 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
Prince William says Earth has too many people - is he right and what can be done?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/prince-william-warns-that-there-are-too-many-people-in-the-world/ar-AAunY4Z


Time to get going on figuring out how to live on Mars.

Supposing this to be feasible (I very much doubt it) what is your Plan B for after we have thoroughly fouled that planet?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:56 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
Prince William says Earth has too many people - is he right and what can be done?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/prince-william-warns-that-there-are-too-many-people-in-the-world/ar-AAunY4Z


Time to get going on figuring out how to live on Mars.

Supposing this to be feasible (I very much doubt it) what is your Plan B for after we have thoroughly fouled that planet?


Plan B, C, and D are the same as Plan A: Seed the human race throughout the galaxy. There are going to be other Earth-like planets that we will find. We've gotten very good at detecting planets around stars, and it's just a matter of time before we're able to discern what the atmospheric contents are, whether or not they have moons, etc. Once we identify those planets, we build a ship large enough to support about 1,000 people - with enough tools and equipment to support starting a colony. They will be equipped with all the knowledge of civilization, since, after all, they will essentially have no real contact with the other colonies. Even if messages could be transmitted across, we're talking about 50-60 years or so. There are a number of candidate planets within 100 light years of Earth... a generational ship will get humans out there. That's how we survive after everything here goes to pot.
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:19 pm

Siren wrote:
There are a number of candidate planets within 100 light years of Earth... a generational ship will get humans out there. That's how we survive after everything here goes to pot.

Any idea how many years the one-way journey will take?
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:34 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Siren wrote:
There are a number of candidate planets within 100 light years of Earth... a generational ship will get humans out there. That's how we survive after everything here goes to pot.

Any idea how many years the one-way journey will take?


It's reasonable that we'll be able to build a ship that can make it 100 light years in 500 years or so... we can achieve that sort of velocity with ion drives over those timescales. As I said, this is a generational ship. Those who start the journey will die aboard, and there will be successive generations of people between who live out their entire lives aboard-ship. So, it would need to be a fairly nice place to live. But it's definitely doable. It's within our ability - we could build it today at our current technology level, it would just be tremendously expensive. I figure at least 2 trillion dollars for that ship, if we were to build it today... but think of the economic stimulus, and the trickle down effects of all the new tech developed for it, entering the civilian market. It'd be one of the best things the US Government ever spent money on, in terms of return on investment, even if the ship never went anywhere. And I see a case for having something like that on standby for planet killing natural disasters, and evacuating a small number of people who can afford a cabin.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
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Aesma
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:55 pm

2 trillion is only 20 times the cost of the ISS, a 6-person station that isn't really conducive to live on for generations, it doesn't even produce any food.

I think you forgot a few zeroes.

Anyway such a ship will probably be build mainly in space from resources found in space, by robots, when we'll get better robots, so at that point it could cost much less.
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BobPatterson
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:56 pm

Siren wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Siren wrote:
There are a number of candidate planets within 100 light years of Earth... a generational ship will get humans out there. That's how we survive after everything here goes to pot.

Any idea how many years the one-way journey will take?


It's reasonable that we'll be able to build a ship that can make it 100 light years in 500 years or so... we can achieve that sort of velocity with ion drives over those timescales. As I said, this is a generational ship. Those who start the journey will die aboard, and there will be successive generations of people between who live out their entire lives aboard-ship. So, it would need to be a fairly nice place to live. But it's definitely doable. It's within our ability - we could build it today at our current technology level, it would just be tremendously expensive. I figure at least 2 trillion dollars for that ship, if we were to build it today... but think of the economic stimulus, and the trickle down effects of all the new tech developed for it, entering the civilian market. It'd be one of the best things the US Government ever spent money on, in terms of return on investment, even if the ship never went anywhere. And I see a case for having something like that on standby for planet killing natural disasters, and evacuating a small number of people who can afford a cabin.

Any problems with genetic bottleneck?

What kind of agricultural seed bank will be taken along?

Are pollinators being planned for? Soil bacteria and all that sort of stuff?
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:58 pm

Aesma wrote:
2 trillion is only 20 times the cost of the ISS, a 6-person station that isn't really conducive to live on for generations, it doesn't even produce any food.
I think you forgot a few zeroes.
Anyway such a ship will probably be build mainly in space from resources found in space, by robots, when we'll get better robots, so at that point it could cost much less.

It's reasonable that we'll be able to build a ship that can make it 100 light years in 500 years or so... we can achieve that sort of velocity with ion drives over those timescales.

Catch-22
500 years from now, a dying planet that has exhausted it's ability to feed itself, will no longer function in a recognisable way. That planet will be unable to build a last chance inter-galactic survival craft.

500 years from now, a planet that has not exhausted it's ability to function in a coherent manner, does not need to build a last chance survival craft.
Catch-22
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2. What was I saying again?
 
Kilopond
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:18 pm

Basically, this is a left wing position. Think of the abortion legalisation in the Soviet Union and the rest of the Eastern Block. Indira Ganadhi's forced mass-sterilisations or those in Peru. China's one-child policy. The dogmas of the Club of Rome.

However, reactionary freemasons and their brainless lackeys might be shocked.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 pm

Siren wrote:
The planet cannot sustain double the population - it cannot sustain the current population.


And yet, there they - and we - all are, being sustained.
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:27 pm

Siren wrote:
Everyone alive deserves this standard of living. It's not worth living without it. So, prune the population until everyone can enjoy the lifestyle the true modernity can offer. That's the golden ticket.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5OrcxwFUA
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:45 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

Ireland, Norway and Sweden have the highest birth rates in Western Europe, bang goes that theory.


Sweden and Norway have very high rates of immigration though. Is the rise in birth rates down to that? Somalis and Pakistanis make up two of the biggest migrant groups in Norway and I know in the UK South East Asian families from places like Pakistan and India tend to have a larger number of offspring. Wouldn't shock me if that has pushed the birth rate figures up.
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:54 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Catch-22
500 years from now, a dying planet that has exhausted it's ability to feed itself, will no longer function in a recognisable way. That planet will be unable to build a last chance inter-galactic survival craft.

500 years from now, a planet that has not exhausted it's ability to function in a coherent manner, does not need to build a last chance survival craft.
Catch-22


I meant the journey would take 500 years. Not that we should build it in 500 years. We should be building it right now, as a matter of fact.

BobPatterson wrote:
Any problems with genetic bottleneck?

What kind of agricultural seed bank will be taken along?

Are pollinators being planned for? Soil bacteria and all that sort of stuff?


1,000 humans is a sufficiently large pool to prevent genetic issues from inbreeding, plus I would bring along 50,000 human embryos of all genetic diversities for surrogacy. And of course, we would need to bring representative soil bacteria, a complete seed bank, and some small livestock as well - chickens, rabbits, etc. We'd need pollinators obviously, but I'm not qualified to render an opinion on what the best options would be. This is all for a team of scientists, much smarter than I, to figure out after we decide to throw a few trillion dollars at the problem.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
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Aesma
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:54 pm

The birth rates are still around 2 per women in these countries (and mine, France, actually above all three from what I can find), and going down rather than up, so that means any population increase can only happen because we live longer, and because of immigration.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Siren
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Re: Prince William - Too many people on planet

Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:01 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Siren wrote:
Everyone alive deserves this standard of living. It's not worth living without it. So, prune the population until everyone can enjoy the lifestyle the true modernity can offer. That's the golden ticket.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5OrcxwFUA


The ditchdiggers can enjoy this standard. We create a just society... where everyone has no want for shelter, food, air conditioning, personal transportation, or medical care. We keep capitalism alive within this framework, and the wealthy will have a lot more than air conditioning and personal transportation and medical care, so my plans do preserve the status quo enough to ensure that the 1% will back the strategy to prune the population as necessary. And the 1% will be the 5% when I'm through.

Yeah, I know it's morally questionable, but this is about preserving the species, and the industrial infrastructure we have spent 200 years building. It cannot be allowed to collapse, which it will, in about 75-100 years at the current rate things are going. Fortunately I won't be around for the great collapse, but I pity the children born today. They won't have air conditioning for their retirement.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist

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