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Revelation
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Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
anyway on the drive home 5 hours, him and his girlfriend watched a movie, since the car drove home. he just put in his address. the key looks like a credit card. this is the future.


Once autonomous driving is perfected, the future looks like this:

o Buy self-driving electric car
o Drive it to work
o While you're at work, make it available to self-drive all day for Uber and Lyft
o Car makes money all day while you're at work, not using it
o Car returns to you at a pre-determined time for the ride home
o You drive car home and plug it in
o Future fast-chargers allow recharge in 20 minutes or less
o While you're at home, make it available to self-drive all night for Uber and Lyft
o Car returns to you at a pre-determined time for the ride to work

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Now, would I do this? Probably not, as I don't want strangers using my car, especially without me in it. But this is what the future of car ownership looks like, where many people simply own a car and let it pay for itself, while many don't own at all and use ride-sharing services provided by owners.


o Self driving car has a bug or is hacked
o Self driving car drives through market place
o Government arrests you as a terrorist

o Self driving car has a bug or is hacked
o Self driving car runs over a toddler
o Tesla and Lyft and Uber have lots of lawyers
o You, not so much
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 14710
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:57 am

Revelation wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
anyway on the drive home 5 hours, him and his girlfriend watched a movie, since the car drove home. he just put in his address. the key looks like a credit card. this is the future.


Once autonomous driving is perfected, the future looks like this:

o Buy self-driving electric car
o Drive it to work
o While you're at work, make it available to self-drive all day for Uber and Lyft
o Car makes money all day while you're at work, not using it
o Car returns to you at a pre-determined time for the ride home
o You drive car home and plug it in
o Future fast-chargers allow recharge in 20 minutes or less
o While you're at home, make it available to self-drive all night for Uber and Lyft
o Car returns to you at a pre-determined time for the ride to work

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Now, would I do this? Probably not, as I don't want strangers using my car, especially without me in it. But this is what the future of car ownership looks like, where many people simply own a car and let it pay for itself, while many don't own at all and use ride-sharing services provided by owners.


o Self driving car has a bug or is hacked
o Self driving car drives through market place
o Government arrests you as a terrorist

o Self driving car has a bug or is hacked
o Self driving car runs over a toddler
o Tesla and Lyft and Uber have lots of lawyers
o You, not so much


You'll note I said, "Once it's perfected," meaning not hackable, etc.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
sccutler
Posts: 5729
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:58 am

Route66 wrote:
sccutler wrote:
Worse, the jury's still out on whether they can ever be legitimately profitable, especially without tax subsidies.


Tesla is not receiving tax subsidies. Tesla customers receive the subsidy.


You are, of course, correct. But I think you knew what I meant.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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akiss20
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:22 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Revelation wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

Once autonomous driving is perfected, the future looks like this:

o Buy self-driving electric car
o Drive it to work
o While you're at work, make it available to self-drive all day for Uber and Lyft
o Car makes money all day while you're at work, not using it
o Car returns to you at a pre-determined time for the ride home
o You drive car home and plug it in
o Future fast-chargers allow recharge in 20 minutes or less
o While you're at home, make it available to self-drive all night for Uber and Lyft
o Car returns to you at a pre-determined time for the ride to work

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Now, would I do this? Probably not, as I don't want strangers using my car, especially without me in it. But this is what the future of car ownership looks like, where many people simply own a car and let it pay for itself, while many don't own at all and use ride-sharing services provided by owners.


o Self driving car has a bug or is hacked
o Self driving car drives through market place
o Government arrests you as a terrorist

o Self driving car has a bug or is hacked
o Self driving car runs over a toddler
o Tesla and Lyft and Uber have lots of lawyers
o You, not so much


You'll note I said, "Once it's perfected," meaning not hackable, etc.


If Spectre and Meltdown teaches you only one thing, it's that nothing can be made unhackable.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
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Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 18180
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:37 pm

akiss20 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
You'll note I said, "Once it's perfected," meaning not hackable, etc.

If Spectre and Meltdown teaches you only one thing, it's that nothing can be made unhackable.

I'm also dubious that it can/will reach perfection.

Most of the problems will be societal/legal.

If the Tesla is driving itself, then Tesla is responsible for accidents it causes. No company can accept that burden.

There will always be flaws in the technology. Either bugs, or hacks, or shortcomings, it doesn't matter, they all look the same from the outside looking in.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2084
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Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:35 pm

It is generally agreed by the experts I have read that liability insurance will be carried by the manufacturer, not the owner of the car. Legislative action will be necessary for this. It is likely that accidents, injuries, and fatalities could reduce a magnitude with autonomous cars. The flaws in technology pale in comparison with DUI, Driving While Texting, speeding, egregiously ignoring good driving standards, racing, road rage. The big problem will be limiting liability - lawyers will go after companies and want $10 million and up for a fatality. My view is that people need to pay for their own life insurance above certain levels.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
JJJ
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:55 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
It is generally agreed by the experts I have read that liability insurance will be carried by the manufacturer, not the owner of the car.


Audi has installed the first level 3 automation on a production car on the latest A8, and has stated they will take responsibility. Volvo did the same a couple years back though they're yet to offer a car with it.
 
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Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 18180
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Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:04 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
It is generally agreed by the experts I have read that liability insurance will be carried by the manufacturer, not the owner of the car. Legislative action will be necessary for this. It is likely that accidents, injuries, and fatalities could reduce a magnitude with autonomous cars. The flaws in technology pale in comparison with DUI, Driving While Texting, speeding, egregiously ignoring good driving standards, racing, road rage. The big problem will be limiting liability - lawyers will go after companies and want $10 million and up for a fatality. My view is that people need to pay for their own life insurance above certain levels.

It's a chicken and egg problem. The whole world isn't going to decide to buy an automated car tomorrow, and the industry couldn't produce them all even if they did. Therefore your alleged order of magnitude gain isn't going to happen instantaneously, and the robots and the non-robots are going to have to learn to work with each other for quite a long time, perhaps decades.

I for one have no intent of letting a computer drive me any time soon. The privacy aspects (i.e. ability to lose my freedom of movement just because a bit changes in a cloud server somewhere) are outrageous, IMHO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2084
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:14 pm

Revelation wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
It is generally agreed by the experts I have read that liability insurance will be carried by the manufacturer, not the owner of the car. Legislative action will be necessary for this. It is likely that accidents, injuries, and fatalities could reduce a magnitude with autonomous cars. The flaws in technology pale in comparison with DUI, Driving While Texting, speeding, egregiously ignoring good driving standards, racing, road rage. The big problem will be limiting liability - lawyers will go after companies and want $10 million and up for a fatality. My view is that people need to pay for their own life insurance above certain levels.

It's a chicken and egg problem. The whole world isn't going to decide to buy an automated car tomorrow, and the industry couldn't produce them all even if they did. Therefore your alleged order of magnitude gain isn't going to happen instantaneously, and the robots and the non-robots are going to have to learn to work with each other for quite a long time, perhaps decades.

I for one have no intent of letting a computer drive me any time soon. The privacy aspects (i.e. ability to lose my freedom of movement just because a bit changes in a cloud server somewhere) are outrageous, IMHO.


As someone likely a lot older than you I am hoping these cars appear before I quit driving.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:41 am

I dislike Tesla for just producing whitegoods instead of vehicles, in fact they are also just building electric infrastructure so they have the recharging market cornered once fuel pumps disappear. More speed does not make a car better,, so despite being rapid they aren't good handling, their tyres are like space savers and they are totally gimmicky with self-opening doors and other unnecessary stuff for lazy people.

This vision for autonomous electric vehicles will permanently ruin cars and car culture and the joy of car ownership for the masses. I hate the idea of autonomous driving. even in traffic, I don't even drive at rush hour.. Driving is a tactile pleasure and learning car control, about gear shifting, and transferring weight to optimise grip is a skill to master over time. A skill that is about to be relegated to the past.. I hate the idea of cars just being a form of public transport, where ownership or brand isn't important and the necessity of a driving license is lost, and the thrill of earning your license and gaining your independence is no longer a thing. Tthe car is now a prison on wheels, where effectively you can be tracked and controlled 100% of every day and there is no independent choice.required. Imagine in the future being a teenager that is enjoying time in the backseat with their girlfriend when all of a sudden the car is directed by the parents at home. That would suck.

To me, it all adds up to a dystopic nightmare.of the ilk of 1984. It has all become the technology for the sake of technologies sake, rather than the pursuit of improving cars, or making them more enjoyable to own and drive and the actual requirement of making a more environmentally friendly vehicle has been hijacked by those who now realise it's a silent and easy means of taking control of millions and limiting their untracked movement :ie: freedom. As others have stated there are hacking and moral decisions that are now going to be in the hands of microchips and anyone who chooses to hack them/monitor them.
I also have a problem with the way these batteries are produced and marketed as the green option when they are far from it. They are using rare raw elements and mined in a way that is is still as terrible for the environment as oil drilling, but now there is also an added agenda - To take away individuality. I would hope there will be a massive outcry once they actually realise that the only thing autonomous in 20 years will be the machines themselves.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:09 pm

I think the autonomous cars are much hyped at this stage with all fanboys posting vlogs on YouTube. People are ignoring the fact that there are several incidents of autonomous cars completely ignoring traffic lights at intersections.

However, when technology is mature enough it will give the freedom to those who are not able to drive on their own.

Parents summoning teenagers car home is the least of worries, in future autonomous cars may decide who will survive an accident by calculating the probability of survival and to minimize the loss of life and take an evasive action. You may not like machine's decision even though it is the most appropriate one.
 
parapente
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Re: Model 3 ‘Hell’ Is Burning Tesla’s Other Projects

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:20 am

Tesla need to be v careful imho.The papers are now full of just about every major car company having or buying into solid state battery technology.No it's not here yet.Most are projecting 2022 (some earlier).But the energy density is at least x2 and charging times halved or less.There are many other advantages.
The gell battery will be history v soon.Now that's not to say he won't have this technology as well.But he will be on an even footing with the car majors at that point in time.Wouldnt want to be in his shoes when that happens.

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