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Siren
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You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:18 pm

Okay, Republicans have been twisting themselves into pretzels for years looking for nonexistent scandals, see Benghazi and the whole Uranium One thing - utterly fictitious allegations with no wrongdoing on Hillary's part. Well, guess what? The reality-based community that I'm a part of is proud to tell you that there's a real scandal now! It involves the fact that Hillary secretly took over the DNC a year before she was officially nominated as the candidate, and months before she officially announced her candidacy.

This is a big deal. This is why Bernie stood no real chance.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... 016-215774

When I got back from a vacation in Martha’s Vineyard, I at last found the document that described it all: the Joint Fund-Raising Agreement between the DNC, the Hillary Victory Fund, and Hillary for America.

The agreement—signed by Amy Dacey, the former CEO of the DNC, and Robby Mook with a copy to Marc Elias—specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff. The DNC also was required to consult with the campaign about all other staffing, budgeting, data, analytics, and mailings.


So, people typically divorced from reality, rejoice! You have an actual Hillary scandal to talk about now! Lock her up!
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:22 pm

Bernie never had a chance period. He never was anything but a spoiler, a distraction. Be happy Bernie fans, Hillary is not the president. Enjoy your success.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:25 pm

salttee wrote:
Bernie never had a chance period. He never was anything but a spoiler, a distraction. Be happy Bernie fans, Hillary is not the president. Enjoy your success.


Same age group voters helped Obama win twice, why would you say Bernie never had a chance?

Also, actively conspiring with one primary candidate is not good for any party.
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:34 pm

Donna Brazile, the DNC and many other influential Dems considered Bernie road kill and I agree with them. For one thing he wasn't (isn't) even a member of the Democratic party. Hillary had a lock on the nomination ever since 2008 when Obama edged her out. There are many reasons for that. He never was a contender, all he ever could have done is exactly what he did: siphon votes away from the real candidate.

Look at the numbers from the Democratic convention.
 
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OA412
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:43 pm

salttee wrote:
Bernie never had a chance period. He never was anything but a spoiler, a distraction. Be happy Bernie fans, Hillary is not the president. Enjoy your success.

And this is why, if he isn't impeached before the end of his first term, Trump will win a second term. The left cannot get past the blame game and the Dems seem as clueless as ever, unwilling to accept that the people want change. The people were demanding change and the DNC put all their efforts behind the establishment candidate. The truth is Bernie's candidacy should have move the party to the left, but it's still stuck in the centrist doldrums, even as a majority of the country skews progressive.
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salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:47 pm

Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:55 pm

But voting for Bernie or a third party would be:
-white privilege
-automatically being "part of the problem" (as in lumping them in the same group as Trump voters)
-indirectly voting for Trump
-sexist because Hillary is female and if you didn't vote for her you are automatically sexist and therefore a Nazi and deserve to be beaten

At least, thats what I've read on Facebook before and after the election.

I voted for the Socialist Party. Why? Bernie should've been the DNC choice, and I don't believe Hillary is progressive enough nor would she actually do anything to bring progress to this country. She had to be the first female president and a lot of people believed she would be, and now look where we are. If you think my vote for a party who wouldn't win is a vote for Trump (despite the fact that Trump and socialism are polar opposites) that's your opinion, but maybe don't demonize your allies even though they don't conform to your thoughts 100%.

^Not directing this message at any particular people, just a rant.
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Super80Fan
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:58 pm

salttee wrote:
Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.


You and everyone with your thinking are the reason Trump is in the White House.

Good job. Hope you're happy.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:02 pm

OA412 wrote:
And this is why, if he isn't impeached before the end of his first term, Trump will win a second term. The left cannot get past the blame game and the Dems seem as clueless as ever, unwilling to accept that the people want change. The people were demanding change and the DNC put all their efforts behind the establishment candidate. The truth is Bernie's candidacy should have move the party to the left, but it's still stuck in the centrist doldrums, even as a majority of the country skews progressive.
You have fallen into the same trap that many of the other liberals here are wallowing in.

You are attacking the Democrats, spreading divisiveness when you should be attacking Fox news, Brietbart and regressive anti-American thinking.

Even in his political grave Bernie continues to divide.
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:03 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
salttee wrote:
Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.


You and everyone with your thinking are the reason Trump is in the White House.

Good job. Hope you're happy.

LOL

Yea, I'l really worry about that kind of admonishment from a Trump bot.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:06 pm

salttee wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
salttee wrote:
Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.


You and everyone with your thinking are the reason Trump is in the White House.

Good job. Hope you're happy.

LOL

Yea, I'l really worry about that kind of admonishment from a Trump bot.


Nice try. Don't like Trump, voted for Hillary in the general AND voted against Trump in the primary. Continue digging.

Anyway, glad people like you are not long for this world, we need forward thinking. You're clinging on to a past that is no longer there. The Democratic party would be smart to drop people like you.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:09 pm

Super80Fan you're 100% regressive. Your posting history proves it.

I don't believe anything you say.
 
Ken777
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:33 pm

salttee wrote:
Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.


Bernie did a good job at addressing the need to improve health care in this country and addressing problems of getting an education past High School. People paying out the nose for health care (and companies paying at unacceptable levels) will appreciate Bernie's efforts. Those burdened with college loans appreciate Bernie's efforts.

As a President with the ability to lead the US in International Relations I think Bernie is about as competent as Trump. Bernie would be as competent as Clinton on most domestic issues, but not as competent overall than Clinton.

I really don't see any scandal with an agreement that Clinton's Campaign would raise funds to share with the DNC and in return they would have a list of privileges. BFD
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:48 pm

Ken777 I agree with all that, except for the fact that Bernie's health care plan (universal health coverage) was sure to be dead on arrival. It would not get through Congress in the current climate. Internationally? Bernie was a carbon copy of Hillary IMO. So that leaves Bernie getting points for championing tuition aid: big deal.

I also don't see any scandal in Donna Brazile's revelations. IMO she's just posturing for her voters in her Florida congressional district.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:50 pm

salttee wrote:
Super80Fan you're 100% regressive. Your posting history proves it.

I don't believe anything you say.


That's actually a compliment coming from you. Like I said, you and your generation are not long for this world, so your opinions don't matter in the end.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
seb146
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:09 pm

OA412 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Bernie never had a chance period. He never was anything but a spoiler, a distraction. Be happy Bernie fans, Hillary is not the president. Enjoy your success.

And this is why, if he isn't impeached before the end of his first term, Trump will win a second term. The left cannot get past the blame game and the Dems seem as clueless as ever, unwilling to accept that the people want change. The people were demanding change and the DNC put all their efforts behind the establishment candidate. The truth is Bernie's candidacy should have move the party to the left, but it's still stuck in the centrist doldrums, even as a majority of the country skews progressive.


The DNC has knows and reacted to people wanting change. The problem is that Hillary was supposed to be the president, not Bernie. Also, the constant drum beat from the right of "lock her up" had a huge impact on independents and center right voters. More progressive candidates under the Democratic party will win over the next few elections. And Republicans will still be whining about "lock her up" and how no one should vote Democrat because Obama was such a loser, for some reason.
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:22 pm

Ken777 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.


Bernie did a good job at addressing the need to improve health care in this country and addressing problems of getting an education past High School. People paying out the nose for health care (and companies paying at unacceptable levels) will appreciate Bernie's efforts. Those burdened with college loans appreciate Bernie's efforts.

As a President with the ability to lead the US in International Relations I think Bernie is about as competent as Trump. Bernie would be as competent as Clinton on most domestic issues, but not as competent overall than Clinton.

I really don't see any scandal with an agreement that Clinton's Campaign would raise funds to share with the DNC and in return they would have a list of privileges. BFD


While I think that most of that is right on, the truth is that there's no plausible way to assert that Hillary has any competency whatsoever. I know her synchphants like to pretend otherwise, but any politician who couldn't even kill off an obvious non-story like benghazi shouldn't have been allowed to run. She then went on to get even lazier by effectively phoning in the rest of her campaign after the primary. She was handed the easiest win since 84, and still managed to blow it. She's many things (yes, most of those better than Trump for the pittance that's worth), but competent has never been and never will be one of them.

Super80Fan wrote:
salttee wrote:
Super80Fan you're 100% regressive. Your posting history proves it.

I don't believe anything you say.


That's actually a compliment coming from you. Like I said, you and your generation are not long for this world, so your opinions don't matter in the end.


First off, I don't know why anyone engages with this guy.

Secondly, what do you mean 'not long for the world'?
Do people just die stupidly young where you're from? The milenials (or whatever we're calling the next gen after them), may be many things, but we can count on them being around for a while.
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dmg626
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:55 am

Who cares, it seemed pretty obvious. Bernie was a complete whack job , what other choice was there ?
 
seb146
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:51 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Bernie did a great job of moving the country to the left, don't you think?

Grownups accept the politics of the possible.


Bernie did a good job at addressing the need to improve health care in this country and addressing problems of getting an education past High School. People paying out the nose for health care (and companies paying at unacceptable levels) will appreciate Bernie's efforts. Those burdened with college loans appreciate Bernie's efforts.

As a President with the ability to lead the US in International Relations I think Bernie is about as competent as Trump. Bernie would be as competent as Clinton on most domestic issues, but not as competent overall than Clinton.

I really don't see any scandal with an agreement that Clinton's Campaign would raise funds to share with the DNC and in return they would have a list of privileges. BFD


While I think that most of that is right on, the truth is that there's no plausible way to assert that Hillary has any competency whatsoever. I know her synchphants like to pretend otherwise, but any politician who couldn't even kill off an obvious non-story like benghazi shouldn't have been allowed to run. She then went on to get even lazier by effectively phoning in the rest of her campaign after the primary. She was handed the easiest win since 84, and still managed to blow it. She's many things (yes, most of those better than Trump for the pittance that's worth), but competent has never been and never will be one of them.


You are joking, right? She was a Senator, a lawyer, Secretary of State, wife to a president... she was more than qualified. The whole reason she "couldn't kill off an obvious non-story" was because the right kept bringing it up like it was a huge scandal. And their followers believed them! In fact, the right still uses that one incident as a rallying cry!

Even though the leader altered documents to frame Hillary, the right still believes she did something

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dyersbu ... s-to-frame

Meanwhile, we have four service men killed in Niger, no investigations; 58 murdered in Las Vegas, no change in any laws, a "leader" who's main focus is golf every freakin' weekend who declared bankruptcy FIVE TIMES and lost money owning casinos! How the hell is that competency?
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:04 am

The real conundrum for Hillary was Bernie's lack of capacity to compromise.
His ideals are just that: ideals. They attract a certain proportion of the electorate who would like radical change towards a more humane and just society, and Bernie claims he can provide that. I'll credit him for absolutely believing in them, and dedicating his life to improving the life of millions.

But his radicals propositions simply wouldn't stand a chance in the real World of politics. A president is not an all powerful dictator, as Trump has reluctantly found out. You have to work with a wide array of politicians from all over the spectrum to make anything move. Stepping in with a heavy shoe and fancy ideas gets you nowhere if you're not able to compromise, and Bernie simply isn't, driven as he is by his ideals.

He would have made for an ineffective President, just like Trump ( but at least smarter and more charismatic).

Hillary knew that, and this is why she stepped out of her bounds to drive the party around him. In the end, she underestimated the importance of the populist wave and she paid for that maneuver by losing the election by driving Bernie's electorate towards Trump...

By the way I believe that he still would have lost the primary if Hillary hadn't 'rigged' it, but that's just me.
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Siren
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:35 am

Bernie had no chance, even without the fix at the DNC. Hillary would have won in a fair match.

That said, Bernie's ideals toward a more humane and just society are not such a radical change - much of what he's talking about is simply re-implementing what was in place in the United States in the late-1960s - LBJ's Great Society. Americans have been dealing with 50 years of austerity, while the conservatives have been feeding us a line of nonsense saying it's socialism and we need even more austerity... because reducing economic activity creates more economic activity somehow.

I fully expect and believe Bernie would have been able to compromise. Any Democrat is capable of that. The Republican party has demonstrated that they are not capable of acting in any sort of civilized manner. They are incapable of running a government, they are incapable of compromising. And compromise is how a democratic government is supposed to work. Negotiating with the Republicans is akin to going out to dinner with a friend. You'd like to have Italian food. Your friend wants broken leaded glass with topping of tar. From those starting points, it is exceedingly unlikely either of you will reach a compromise that leaves either party happy - and the reasonable person who wants food will instead get deadly poison resembling food as the compromise, and after dinner they'll call the coroner.

It's long overdue to call the coroner on this government. Why we haven't descended on Washington with torches and pitchforks and burned it down, I'll never know.
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
flyguy89
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:04 am

af773atmsp wrote:
But voting for Bernie or a third party would be:
-white privilege
-automatically being "part of the problem" (as in lumping them in the same group as Trump voters)
-indirectly voting for Trump
-sexist because Hillary is female and if you didn't vote for her you are automatically sexist and therefore a Nazi and deserve to be beaten

At least, thats what I've read on Facebook before and after the election.

I voted for the Socialist Party. Why? Bernie should've been the DNC choice, and I don't believe Hillary is progressive enough nor would she actually do anything to bring progress to this country. She had to be the first female president and a lot of people believed she would be, and now look where we are. If you think my vote for a party who wouldn't win is a vote for Trump (despite the fact that Trump and socialism are polar opposites) that's your opinion, but maybe don't demonize your allies even though they don't conform to your thoughts 100%.

^Not directing this message at any particular people, just a rant.

Amen. I suspect we'd little agree on political ideas, but I too voted third party in the election. One day I'd get an earful from a Democrat about how I was basically voting for Trump and the next day I'd get an earful from a conservative about how I was really voting for Hillary. At the end of the day our votes aren't "owed" to anyone and both Hillary and Trump lost our votes. If your best argument as a candidate is "I'm kind of trash but at least not as trash as the other candidate," you're a trash candidate.

Siren wrote:
Bernie had no chance, even without the fix at the DNC. Hillary would have won in a fair match.

That said, Bernie's ideals toward a more humane and just society are not such a radical change - much of what he's talking about is simply re-implementing what was in place in the United States in the late-1960s - LBJ's Great Society. Americans have been dealing with 50 years of austerity, while the conservatives have been feeding us a line of nonsense saying it's socialism and we need even more austerity... because reducing economic activity creates more economic activity somehow.

Policies to turn the clock back 50 years...wow, such progressiveness and forward thinking.

Siren wrote:
I fully expect and believe Bernie would have been able to compromise. Any Democrat is capable of that. The Republican party has demonstrated that they are not capable of acting in any sort of civilized manner. They are incapable of running a government, they are incapable of compromising. And compromise is how a democratic government is supposed to work. Negotiating with the Republicans is akin to going out to dinner with a friend. You'd like to have Italian food. Your friend wants broken leaded glass with topping of tar. From those starting points, it is exceedingly unlikely either of you will reach a compromise that leaves either party happy - and the reasonable person who wants food will instead get deadly poison resembling food as the compromise, and after dinner they'll call the coroner.

Amusingly if you replace Republicans with Democrats and Democrats with Republicans, your post almost exactly mirrors everything I usually hear from some of the hardcore, right wing, Rush Limbaugh Republicans in my family.

Siren wrote:
It's long overdue to call the coroner on this government. Why we haven't descended on Washington with torches and pitchforks and burned it down, I'll never know.

Because the lives of most ordinary working Americans don't revolve around the melodrama in DC no matter their political bent, they have jobs, their pay is increasing and the economy continues to grow at a decent clip.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:35 am

Best I could tell, only Fox gave coverage to Donna's book about the DNC.

Couldn't find any archived segments on NBC/MSNBC or CBS, looking at their Roku channels.
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Pyrex
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:07 pm

Although a lot of this is likely just Donna Brazile covering her ass for her own sleazy actions, it would explain why, other than (briefly) O'Malley, who never stood a chance, not a single Democrat ran against Hillary. Not a single one. The only competition she had was from someone outside the Democratic party, and old communist fart from Vermont. No internal competition is somewhat expected when an incumbent President is running for re-election, but not when it is an open election (Trump had to beat dozens of opponents). Granted, just looking at Congress (*cough* Pelosi *cough* Schumer *cough*) their bench isn't incredibly deep, but with the amount of people that are currently a member of the Democratic party in good standing they couldn't find a single one to run against the Annointed One?
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zkojq
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:14 pm

Can Donna Brasille really be trusted? :sarcastic:

OA412 wrote:
And this is why, if he isn't impeached before the end of his first term, Trump will win a second term. The left cannot get past the blame game and the Dems seem as clueless as ever, unwilling to accept that the people want change.

:checkmark:

OA412 wrote:
The people were demanding change and the DNC put all their efforts behind the establishment candidate. The truth is Bernie's candidacy should have move the party to the left, but it's still stuck in the centrist doldrums, even as a majority of the country skews progressive.

I think a pivotal moment in the campaign was when Hillary chose her VP. The primaries had clearly shown that there was substantial support for Bernie and a more left wing candidate/policy platform, so who did Hillary choose? Someone further to the right and more "establishment" than even herself to snub the party's left wing. Hubris.

salttee wrote:
Be happy Bernie fans, Hillary is not the president. Enjoy your success.

Maybe this attitude is part of the problem. The attitude that the people Hillary snubbed "owe her" their vote anyway to prevent the Orange Menace getting elected. Politics is about earning people's votes; the fact is that Hillary took support for granted and made no concessions to the anti-establishment wing of the party. She then lost the election to the monumentally incompetent Orange Menace. Worst politician in history (well, possibly other than Trump...but he did get elected to the White House).

af773atmsp wrote:
maybe don't demonize your allies even though they don't conform to your thoughts 100%.

:checkmark:

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
She then went on to get even lazier by effectively phoning in the rest of her campaign after the primary. She was handed the easiest win since 84, and still managed to blow it. She's many things (yes, most of those better than Trump for the pittance that's worth), but competent has never been and never will be one of them.

It takes a great deal of hubris to lose an election to someone as catastrophically incompetent as Trump. I do though respect her political career and achievements up until her presidential run.
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:44 pm

dmg626 wrote:
Who cares, it seemed pretty obvious. Bernie was a complete whack job , what other choice was there ?


Inside view.

From the outside Bernie appeared to be the only non whacko non war mongering candidate.
( But obviously without any chance.)


The basic assumption that the majority is always sane
does not seem to hold for the US.
Not even as a working theory.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:45 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
At the end of the day our votes aren't "owed" to anyone and both Hillary and Trump lost our votes.

That may be so, but one of them still won, because our system does not care about whether your vote was FOR a candidate or AGAINST them. This argument (X lost my vote) counts if the winner requires 50% to win. The fact that Trump won while losing the popular vote means he wasn't the people's choice (neither was Hillary as she did not break the 50% threshold either). So it means that NONE of the candidates in the end was the people's choice. Rather, it was the states who decided, which is rather odd as each state (as an entity) does not cast a vote but rather its people.

In meetings, to pass amendments and approve decisions, usually a charter will indicate that it requires a minimum threshold in the AFFIRMATIVE (i.e. FOR it). To abstain, vote NO, or vote for something else is NOT in the affirmative. So if you need 6 out of 10 people to vote yes but only 5 do while 2 vote NO and 3 Abstain, then the motion is not carried, even if those 3 people who abstain don't give AF about what happens.

So in an election, it's very dangerous to say that you're voting against someone. If someone voted for Trump as a way to vote against Clinton, they voted in the affirmative for Trump (no matter how much you hate the guy). If you voted for the Socialist Party candidate, then you voted FOR that person and not against Trump or Clinton (either one could have won without hitting 50% of the vote).
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Aesma
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:38 pm

Hillary's control of the DNC probably helped her lose, basically she spent way too much time playing politics instead of simply campaigning and win on her merit.

It seems to me Bernie was a candidate of choice for her, she thought she would crush him and she did, the problem is that she didn't manage that outcome well (taking some of Bernie's proposals into her platform). She could have well pushed other contenders or deny Bernie a spot in the primary but she didn't. Another miscalculation.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:32 pm

The Hill backs up what I said about none of the Big 3 Network News programs covering the Donna B. story yesterday...

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/35858 ... evelations
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:40 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
That's actually a compliment coming from you. Like I said, you and your generation are not long for this world, so your opinions don't matter in the end.


That's out of line. Don't care who much you may disagree with someone, you don't stand there rejoicing the fact you're statistically liable to live longer. And you certainly don't do that to an entire generation!
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:48 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
That's actually a compliment coming from you. Like I said, you and your generation are not long for this world, so your opinions don't matter in the end.


That's out of line. Don't care who much you may disagree with someone, you don't stand there rejoicing the fact you're statistically liable to live longer. And you certainly don't do that to an entire generation!


That's the only way you deal with a professional DNC paid troll.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
tommy1808
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:52 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
That's the only way you deal with a professional DNC paid troll.


You mean like the non-existent paid Trump protesters?

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:05 pm

Aesma wrote:
Hillary's control of the DNC probably helped her lose, basically she spent way too much time playing politics instead of simply campaigning and win on her merit.

It seems to me Bernie was a candidate of choice for her, she thought she would crush him and she did, the problem is that she didn't manage that outcome well (taking some of Bernie's proposals into her platform). She could have well pushed other contenders or deny Bernie a spot in the primary but she didn't. Another miscalculation.


Three important things in any campaign 1) Data analytics 2) Social media presence and 3) Mainstream media support

Obama's 2012 can be mainly contributed to Narwahl which integrated data analytics with Facebook and others, which tracked likely voters, early voters, helped seniors, poor and disabled reach polling stations. Young volunteers, some are not yet eligible to vote, worked at county level offices going door to door.

Not clear if HRC used Narwhal in 2016, young volunteers were with Bernie and mainstream media was calling it a slam dunk.
RNC learned from its 2012 mistakes and invested heavily in data analytics and sent him to places which looked odd to others like PA and MI on election night, Trump did his own social media campaign, the negative coverage by mainstream media helped with his core base.
 
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Siren
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:29 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Policies to turn the clock back 50 years...wow, such progressiveness and forward thinking.


Yes, exactly. To a time when the economy thrived, when a single income could support a family. To the days when labor unions were strong, and worked to the benefit of all employees. The days when corporate profits were reinvested into the company, and its employees, and productivity gains directly translated to increases in wage across all levels. A time in America when college was nearly free, and subsidized heavily by Government, with generous loan repayment terms. Civil rights had just passed, and we were making the greatest strides toward true racial equality, which reached the closest point in the 70s, and has been backsliding since then. Same goes for gender equality - women reached the peak of their power in the late 70s/early 80s, and the Conservatives have been clamping down ever since.

Turning back the clock 50 years is very progressive. It throws away all the conservative crap that has been legislated since then.

flyguy89 wrote:
Amusingly if you replace Republicans with Democrats and Democrats with Republicans, your post almost exactly mirrors everything I usually hear from some of the hardcore, right wing, Rush Limbaugh Republicans in my family.


The only difference is that I'm backed up by facts and reality, and Conservatives are backed up by wild fantasy and magical thinking.

flyguy89 wrote:
Because the lives of most ordinary working Americans don't revolve around the melodrama in DC no matter their political bent, they have jobs, their pay is increasing and the economy continues to grow at a decent clip.


Not sure where you get the data that says pay is increasing - it generally isn't. The pay increases have all gone to the very top end of the pay scale. Since the recession ended, it's 90% or so of all wage increases have been directed toward the 1%. Personally I don't mind this policy too much as I am a beneficiary of tax cuts for the rich, and major beneficiary of cutting the estate tax. But it's grossly unfair, and wage growth should be spread across the spectrum, as it was in the 1960s...
Siren: 32 year old single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast, Californian Independence leader & evangelist
 
WIederling
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:22 pm

Siren wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Policies to turn the clock back 50 years...wow, such progressiveness and forward thinking.


Yes, exactly. To a time when the economy thrived, when a single income could support a family. To the days when labor unions were strong, and worked to the benefit of all employees. The days when corporate profits were reinvested into the company, and its employees, and productivity gains directly translated to increases in wage across all levels. A time in America when college was nearly free, and subsidized heavily by Government, with generous loan repayment terms. Civil rights had just passed, and we were making the greatest strides toward true racial equality, which reached the closest point in the 70s, and has been backsliding since then. Same goes for gender equality - women reached the peak of their power in the late 70s/early 80s, and the Conservatives have been clamping down ever since.


50years back?

Actually more like 150 years or there about. Manchester Capitalism or such?

50 years ago taxes were higher in general and progression was stronger.
That forced excess profits to be converted to investment ( and thus staged writeoffs ).
Quite the boost to any economy.
"trickle down" and "low taxes cause investment" are mindfarts.
Murphy is an optimist
 
flyguy89
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:43 pm

Siren wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Policies to turn the clock back 50 years...wow, such progressiveness and forward thinking.


Yes, exactly. To a time when the economy thrived, when a single income could support a family.

News flash: the economy is thriving (not as well as could be doing IMHO, but doing well empirically nonetheless) and American households are more wealthy than they've ever been in US history. Household net worth just hit a new historical high: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HNONWPDPI

Siren wrote:
The days when corporate profits were reinvested into the company, and its employees, and productivity gains directly translated to increases in wage across all levels.

And what exactly do you think they do with their profits now? Stuff them under a mattress? SMH

Siren wrote:
A time in America when college was nearly free, and subsidized heavily by Government, with generous loan repayment terms.

College was only ever "nearly free" for certain segments of the populations. It has always otherwise been very expensive, is still today subsidized heavily by the government with all myriad of subsidized student loans.

Siren wrote:
Civil rights had just passed, and we were making the greatest strides toward true racial equality, which reached the closest point in the 70s, and has been backsliding since then. Same goes for gender equality - women reached the peak of their power in the late 70s/early 80s, and the Conservatives have been clamping down ever since.

Oh my word..the sheer naivete and lack of context here. So woman and blacks were better off in the 70s, eh? Within the past 10 years there hasn't been a time before ever in our history when more woman and blacks were in the workforce nor as wealthy as they are today, but somehow all was better in the 70s? All of this isn't to say there aren't problems to be addressed today, but what a moronic and baseless argument to say they were better off 50 years ago.

Siren wrote:

The only difference is that I'm backed up by facts and reality, and Conservatives are backed up by wild fantasy and magical thinking.

It continues! That is literally exactly what I always hear them say about Democrats.

Siren wrote:
Not sure where you get the data that says pay is increasing - it generally isn't. The pay increases have all gone to the very top end of the pay scale. Since the recession ended, it's 90% or so of all wage increases have been directed toward the 1%. Personally I don't mind this policy too much as I am a beneficiary of tax cuts for the rich, and major beneficiary of cutting the estate tax. But it's grossly unfair, and wage growth should be spread across the spectrum, as it was in the 1960s...
[/quote][/quote][/quote]
See here: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-w ... story.html
 
seb146
Posts: 15677
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:36 pm

Here is another Hillary scandal that will probably go unnoteced by right wing/main stream media...

https://latest.com/2017/11/russian-link ... fidential/
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
WIederling
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:49 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Household net worth just hit a new historical high: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HNONWPDPI


A rather worthless statement.

wealth is accumulating at the top.
A very small percentage gains vastly in income
while the remainder stagnates or looses income.

A society with no middle class can not be a democratic entity. ( and it isn't as we see for the US.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
flyguy89
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:30 pm

WIederling wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Household net worth just hit a new historical high: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HNONWPDPI


A rather worthless statement.

wealth is accumulating at the top.
A very small percentage gains vastly in income
while the remainder stagnates or looses income.

The fact that American households are becoming wealthier and are more rich they they've ever been before in history is worthless? OK :roll:

A little context and reality-based perspective is worth something. Hyperbole is worthless. We can argue about why the middle class wealth isn't growing as quickly as it has in the past, but your "sky is falling" rhetoric is disingenuous at best.
 
flyguy89
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:35 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
At the end of the day our votes aren't "owed" to anyone and both Hillary and Trump lost our votes.

That may be so, but one of them still won, because our system does not care about whether your vote was FOR a candidate or AGAINST them. This argument (X lost my vote) counts if the winner requires 50% to win. The fact that Trump won while losing the popular vote means he wasn't the people's choice (neither was Hillary as she did not break the 50% threshold either). So it means that NONE of the candidates in the end was the people's choice. Rather, it was the states who decided, which is rather odd as each state (as an entity) does not cast a vote but rather its people.

In meetings, to pass amendments and approve decisions, usually a charter will indicate that it requires a minimum threshold in the AFFIRMATIVE (i.e. FOR it). To abstain, vote NO, or vote for something else is NOT in the affirmative. So if you need 6 out of 10 people to vote yes but only 5 do while 2 vote NO and 3 Abstain, then the motion is not carried, even if those 3 people who abstain don't give AF about what happens.

So in an election, it's very dangerous to say that you're voting against someone. If someone voted for Trump as a way to vote against Clinton, they voted in the affirmative for Trump (no matter how much you hate the guy). If you voted for the Socialist Party candidate, then you voted FOR that person and not against Trump or Clinton (either one could have won without hitting 50% of the vote).

Well that's really a different subject though, voting for a candidate you don't like as a vote against the other. Hillary lost our votes to other candidates that weren't Trump and fact of the matter is the electoral college is driven by popular votes. Hillary would have won if more people had voted for her. I will say though that I was shocked after the election at the number of Bernie Sanders supporters that I encountered who told me they ended up voting for Trump.
 
itsjustme
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:08 am

Well, there was that "little" lie about taking sniper fire in Bosnia. The left seems to conveniently forget that.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:32 am

itsjustme wrote:
Well, there was that "little" lie about taking sniper fire in Bosnia. The left seems to conveniently forget that.


At least she was there. I guess Trump was home getting treatment for his Vietnam Era bone spurs. His treatment evidently worked, I do not notice a limp. A miracle perhaps? :rotfl: :rotfl:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
seb146
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:16 am

itsjustme wrote:
Well, there was that "little" lie about taking sniper fire in Bosnia. The left seems to conveniently forget that.


How many tours did Cheney serve? How long did Rumsfeld say the Iraq War would last? Drawings of "chemical weapons trucks" to convince the United Nations to go to war against a country that had nothing to do with anything?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
diverted
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:23 am

flyguy89[quote="Siren wrote:
The days when corporate profits were reinvested into the company, and its employees, and productivity gains directly translated to increases in wage across all levels.

And what exactly do you think they do with their profits now? Stuff them under a mattress? SMH [/quote]

**Cool, quoting something on here sucks now. Sorry folks for the ugliness of the above formatting **


While not under a mattress (You'd need a big mattress) Apple's got $128B they haven't paid tax on sitting overseas. And they're FAR from the only ones to do it.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:57 am

seb146 wrote:
You are joking, right? She was a Senator, a lawyer, Secretary of State, wife to a president... she was more than qualified.


You see anyone laughing? You're confusing having gotten fired from a lot of things/shameless job hopping for experience.

She was never good at any of these things and has virtually nothing to show for it.


And if being "wife to a president" is actually a thing you can put on a resume, then...


seb146 wrote:
The whole reason she "couldn't kill off an obvious non-story" was because the right kept bringing it up like it was a huge scandal. And their followers believed them! In fact, the right still uses that one incident as a rallying cry!


... this should have been a no brainer. Bill had all that and worse to deal with. Hell, he was actually impeached. And not only lived through it, but made a complete and totally mockery of the witch hunt an entire party made just for him by finishing his second term with enough popularity to easily win a third.

If being his wife is worth any experience, she must have slept through that episode, since benghazi was a walk in the park next to it. ..

seb146 wrote:
Even though the leader altered documents to frame Hillary, the right still believes she did something

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dyersbu ... s-to-frame

Meanwhile, we have four service men killed in Niger, no investigations; 58 murdered in Las Vegas, no change in any laws, a "leader" who's main focus is golf every freakin' weekend who declared bankruptcy FIVE TIMES and lost money owning casinos! How the hell is that competency?


The right believes all that because they want to anyway. Who cares?

The issue is that Hillary never even attempted to diffuse the controversy in any meaningful way. To those of us on the left (and no I'm not including those hippy extremist rioter types who are always just mad at everything anyway), this sent a very clear message that Clinton had/has no clue what she's doing. And this clearly remains the case as she has yet to take an accurate and remotely honest look at what it was that got her ass kicked out of all this in the first place.

As for the other things you're whining about, you're just going to have be ok with all that since that's what happens when you nominate a loser.

I know you think she's great and all, so let me leave you with one amazing and true fact about what kind of great politician she was...

Hillary Clinton was the only, as in at all, ever, political candidate to lose any kind of race for office, whatsoever, to Donald fucking Trump. Give that a moment to sink in before pretending she's not so bad...
Much like a GE90, I'm a huge fan of Big Twins...
 
seb146
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:08 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
You are joking, right? She was a Senator, a lawyer, Secretary of State, wife to a president... she was more than qualified.


You see anyone laughing? You're confusing having gotten fired from a lot of things/shameless job hopping for experience.

She was never good at any of these things and has virtually nothing to show for it.


And if being "wife to a president" is actually a thing you can put on a resume, then...


seb146 wrote:
The whole reason she "couldn't kill off an obvious non-story" was because the right kept bringing it up like it was a huge scandal. And their followers believed them! In fact, the right still uses that one incident as a rallying cry!


... this should have been a no brainer. Bill had all that and worse to deal with. Hell, he was actually impeached. And not only lived through it, but made a complete and totally mockery of the witch hunt an entire party made just for him by finishing his second term with enough popularity to easily win a third.

If being his wife is worth any experience, she must have slept through that episode, since benghazi was a walk in the park next to it. ..

seb146 wrote:
Even though the leader altered documents to frame Hillary, the right still believes she did something

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dyersbu ... s-to-frame

Meanwhile, we have four service men killed in Niger, no investigations; 58 murdered in Las Vegas, no change in any laws, a "leader" who's main focus is golf every freakin' weekend who declared bankruptcy FIVE TIMES and lost money owning casinos! How the hell is that competency?


The right believes all that because they want to anyway. Who cares?

The issue is that Hillary never even attempted to diffuse the controversy in any meaningful way. To those of us on the left (and no I'm not including those hippy extremist rioter types who are always just mad at everything anyway), this sent a very clear message that Clinton had/has no clue what she's doing. And this clearly remains the case as she has yet to take an accurate and remotely honest look at what it was that got her ass kicked out of all this in the first place.

As for the other things you're whining about, you're just going to have be ok with all that since that's what happens when you nominate a loser.

I know you think she's great and all, so let me leave you with one amazing and true fact about what kind of great politician she was...

Hillary Clinton was the only, as in at all, ever, political candidate to lose any kind of race for office, whatsoever, to Donald fucking Trump. Give that a moment to sink in before pretending she's not so bad...


When Hillary was First Lady, she spearheaded the movement to get health care to all of us. Hillary was Secretary Of State. Hillary was Senator. She knows how all these things work. She worked under a Constitutional Scholar. Someone who knows Constitutional law.

But, please, do go on about how having no experience is so much better and ruling by decree is so much better.....

Would you rather have a pilot with no experience or with 30 years experience? Would you rather have a heart surgeon with no experience or with 30 years experience?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:48 am

seb146 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Would you rather have a pilot with no experience or with 30 years experience? Would you rather have a heart surgeon with no experience or with 30 years experience?


Crashing planes and killing patients doesn't count as "experience".

You're confusing exposure with expertise. These are two different things.

The point you keep missing is very simple. If you ever want to win an election again stop defending losers and start backing winners.


I dont think you know this (and Hillary's sorry arse clearly still doesn't), but it takes more than not being Trump to win...
Much like a GE90, I'm a huge fan of Big Twins...
 
Pyrex
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
You are joking, right? She was a Senator,


She was a Democratic Senator for New York. A Ham Sandwich could be elected Democratic Senator in New York, provided its husband had enough pull within the party to get her on the ticket.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
salttee
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:06 pm

You may not know this Mr. DarkSnowyNight, but your argument is devoid of logic.
Everything above that you assume to be true has no basis in fact. You think that because you can say it, it must be true.

Wrong!

When you say: "She was never good at any of these things and has virtually nothing to show for it." you are not expressing a truth - merely your opinion with nothing to back it up. And in your example just above: Hillary didn't "crash any planes" or "kill any patients", that's just your opinion too.

We all get it that you love the sound of your own voice, but that doesn't carry over to people other than you.

And Pyrex, you're doing exactly the same:
Pyrex wrote:
She was a Democratic Senator for New York. A Ham Sandwich could be elected Democratic Senator in New York, provided its husband had enough pull within the party to get her on the ticket.
is just your cliche, (I mean opinion) it is meaningless outside your head.

BTW
Pyrex you're late for your history lesson, please make an appearance in the Islamic State thread.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: You Wanted a Hillary Scandal? You Got One

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:22 pm

Ah yes, another Clinton scandal that isn't. Anyone notice a pattern here?
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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