mcdu wrote:

Last week I posted a topic about an AA captain inserting himself into a customer service issue between an agent and a African American passenger. He told the agent not to board the young lady. She claimed it was racially motivated.

The topic was deleted and no reason was given. However, it appears there are more instances that have created this travel warning.

And those instances are also not race related.

izbtmnhd wrote:

ripcordd wrote:

There are 3 sides to every story yours mine and the truth....I have a feeling AA will be throwing some free flights at them to shut them and this just creates bigger problems just like the DAO effect rewarding people for bad behavior. And with the capt inserting himself in the argument with the passenger and agent we where not there to see but if I'm walking by and I see a passenger that will be on my ship verbally abusing an agent on the ground I do not want that kind of behavior 30,000FT up so I would not let her fly on my ship.

I don't think the head of the NAACP is looking for free flights just to shut "them" up. Just FYI.

probably looking for money and press.

Brickell305 wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

I am thinking the same thing. If it's a "shakedown" as some people are implying would it not be smarter to call the whole industry out and extort money from all the US airlines.

Also if some are going to claim that the NAACP is extorting companies currently, some examples would be great.

No, you target a single mark, Jackson perfected it in the early 80's after Reagan ended his PUSH government grant money gravytrain that got started under Carter. REagan had more than enough to throw him injail but just cut off the money and declined prosecution due to the fear of racial trouble. His first mark was Coca Cola after the gov't grants were cut off. The NAACP is simply taking a page from Jesse's playbook now that he's mostly retired.

You can not separate politics from a discussion from anything that involves the NAACP. It is inherently political in nature.

The first step has been won, now comes the meeting where AA gives gifts. Someone gets a paid advisory gig, some funding for something that only lines the exec's pockets or those associated with them.

It's a tried and true method.

ripcordd wrote:

There are 3 sides to every story yours mine and the truth....I have a feeling AA will be throwing some free flights at them to shut them and this just creates bigger problems just like the DAO effect rewarding people for bad behavior. And with the capt inserting himself in the argument with the passenger and agent we where not there to see but if I'm walking by and I see a passenger that will be on my ship verbally abusing an agent on the ground I do not want that kind of behavior 30,000FT up so I would not let her fly on my ship.

Yes, because there's noooooo way that they may actually be genuinely concerned about the way that some black people may have been treated on their flights. It's CLEARLY just a case of black people wanting free things.

As I've said before, the responses here are extremely telling.

Screaming racism at every turn is also extremely telling, if there is one thing blacklivesmatter has shown us it's that you need to wait for the facts before you claim racism.

n471wn wrote:

Let us hope that AA does not give in to this blackmail

They will and i'm sure they'll have some virture signaling to go along with it. It's just the way companies operate these days in the age of "outrage".

Bigstud69 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

I generally support the NAACP but this advisory is just stupid...

why its been useless for years and does nothing but shakedown companies.

Name the companies the NAACP has shaken down.

mjoelnir wrote:

What is special with AA hiring the first black pilot in 1964? Were the USA that racist that short time ago? Of course we all know that. What is so pioneering about being less racist?
What about fear that they could not deny to hire qualified black pilots any longer after the Supreme Court decision from 1963 regarding Marlon Green David. Harris was an air force pilot, having flown B 52, so hardly incompetent on big aircraft.

I guess some of you can't read? August Martin is recognized as the 1st black airline pilot back in the mid fifties, Seaboard World Airlines which merged after his death with Flying Tigers and finally FedEx, Sebaord which never had a fatal accident flew the Connie, DC8 and 747, Capt Green came along later. Funny as most black pilots don't know this man either, Died while flying Biafra relief flights while on a LOA from the airline. This guy has always stood out as exceptional. Both DAL and Alaska have had black VP of Ops guys in the past,

Sorry to see the NAACP take this low road, If I were a black employee at AA, I would be embarrassed by this issue,

BravoOne wrote:

Sorry to see the NAACP take this low road, If I were a black employee at AA, I would be embarrassed by this issue,

I dare say that if you were a black employee at AA, or even just black, you might likely have a different perspective on the issue completely.

(As in, be careful when you speak for others. )

Since one side has abandoned nuance, an interest in evidence, or any sign of empathy and interest in perspectives, I'm going to chime in with some broad reflections. In my experience, many white and conservative people in the US treat any attempt to discuss or critique society from the perspective of minorities as a threat to their way of being. Whether cultural or economic, claims of discrimination or disparate experience, or attempts to offer an alternative way of being and doing things, are cast in zero sum terms. This possessive, power-blind, often historically ignorant, at best-apathetic way of seeing the world is the real shame here. Sure is hard to be generous and build bridges when we have people proudly and systematically denying the legitimacy of critique from below and endorsing political powers that are overtly hostile to minorities (e.g. VP "Hang the Gays" Pence).

to paraphrase Heraclitus, “Your company culture is your company’s destiny.” I believe NAACP. People have been embolden by the Trump Adm to show their unbridled hatred.

Seems like someone forgot to put their shakedown check in the mail...

Junction wrote:

The NAACP gave several examples of customer service issues where the passengers involved were black, but they are accusing AA of having a systematic culture of racism. That has yet to be proved.

Setting the "verbal" attacks aside for a moment:

In terms of how often a person of color is likely to be injured "physically" by another person while traveling on a carrier, I wonder if the NAACP has tabulated the instances of where people of color have been physically attacked over a year, for example. Regardless of who did the attacking, the NAACP could then issue a Travel Advisory to indicate which carrier you would be more likely to be physically attacked if you are a person of color.

Now that could be useful information to the flying public.

Would you include an instance where a person of colour was attacked by another person of colour.

Would you include if the person of colour threw the first punch.

Finally, white/pink is also a colour. If you mean non white, why not say so.

Bigstud69 wrote:

mcdu wrote:

Last week I posted a topic about an AA captain inserting himself into a customer service issue between an agent and a African American passenger. He told the agent not to board the young lady. She claimed it was racially motivated.

The topic was deleted and no reason was given. However, it appears there are more instances that have created this travel warning.

And those instances are also not race related.

izbtmnhd wrote:

ripcordd wrote:

There are 3 sides to every story yours mine and the truth....I have a feeling AA will be throwing some free flights at them to shut them and this just creates bigger problems just like the DAO effect rewarding people for bad behavior. And with the capt inserting himself in the argument with the passenger and agent we where not there to see but if I'm walking by and I see a passenger that will be on my ship verbally abusing an agent on the ground I do not want that kind of behavior 30,000FT up so I would not let her fly on my ship.

I don't think the head of the NAACP is looking for free flights just to shut "them" up. Just FYI.

probably looking for money and press.

Brickell305 wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

No, you target a single mark, Jackson perfected it in the early 80's after Reagan ended his PUSH government grant money gravytrain that got started under Carter. REagan had more than enough to throw him injail but just cut off the money and declined prosecution due to the fear of racial trouble. His first mark was Coca Cola after the gov't grants were cut off. The NAACP is simply taking a page from Jesse's playbook now that he's mostly retired.

You can not separate politics from a discussion from anything that involves the NAACP. It is inherently political in nature.

The first step has been won, now comes the meeting where AA gives gifts. Someone gets a paid advisory gig, some funding for something that only lines the exec's pockets or those associated with them.

It's a tried and true method.

ripcordd wrote:

There are 3 sides to every story yours mine and the truth....I have a feeling AA will be throwing some free flights at them to shut them and this just creates bigger problems just like the DAO effect rewarding people for bad behavior. And with the capt inserting himself in the argument with the passenger and agent we where not there to see but if I'm walking by and I see a passenger that will be on my ship verbally abusing an agent on the ground I do not want that kind of behavior 30,000FT up so I would not let her fly on my ship.

Yes, because there's noooooo way that they may actually be genuinely concerned about the way that some black people may have been treated on their flights. It's CLEARLY just a case of black people wanting free things.

As I've said before, the responses here are extremely telling.

Screaming racism at every turn is also extremely telling, if there is one thing blacklivesmatter has shown us it's that you need to wait for the facts before you claim racism.

n471wn wrote:

Let us hope that AA does not give in to this blackmail

They will and i'm sure they'll have some virture signaling to go along with it. It's just the way companies operate these days in the age of "outrage".

How do you know they weren’t race related. In the AA captain event can you know what actually triggered his decision to not allow the young lady to travel? Would he have reacted the same way if it was a 50 year old white male arguing with the agent? Unless you can definitely say what he was thinking by knowing or interviewing this person it’s pure speculation.

The only fact is he intervened in a customer service issue and denied boarding to a young African American lady.

Aesma wrote:

Junction wrote:

How can an organization legally be allowed to publicly slander a company in this way without needing to provide evidence?

Don't you have freedom of speech in the US ?

Isn't your president slandering people, companies, even nations, almost every day, without consequence for him ?

Slander is tort, and the person or organization doing the defaming can be sued. The current U.S. president is not exempt.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

I-ll say it again, it's a shake down out of Rev. Jackson's Rainbow Coalition playbook.

Yup. The "Reverend" Je$$e Jack$on has mastered this sort of thing.

Parker's retort was pitch perfect. Loved it. Well said. And a company that employs tens of thousands of black people that connects the world's races, countries and cultures being accused of systemic racism is total and utter BS.

I hope AA stands tall against the NAACP.

D L X wrote:

F27500 wrote:

This is how "advocate" groups like NAACP and BLM operate. By way of bullying and intimidation.

Issuing a travel advisory to black people warning them about travelling on AA should get them a serious lawsuit. Its based on nothing but the experiences of a few disruptive people who got themselves in trouble by causing a scene. You just do NOT do that when you're flying. And its not just "cuz I'm black".

But of course groups like this are ALL over it. Especially since one of the people causing a stink a couple weeks ago was a black activist of some sort.

This is beyond nonsense and AA and any other company attacked this way should lawyer up and fight back as strongly as necessary.

That's an awful lot of air for no balloon!

Seriously, you've made at least 6 conclusions without evidence. Care to share your private knowledge?

And DLX STILL defending the NAACP and how they outright WARNED BLACK PEOPLE ABOUT FLYING AMERICAN AIRLINES. There was no dialog here. Just intimidation and bullying and outright LYING. The usual. NAACP or BLM .. same technique.

Fight back, AA (if this nonsense goes any further).

Keep showing your bias , DLX.

F27500 wrote:

D L X wrote:

F27500 wrote:

This is how "advocate" groups like NAACP and BLM operate. By way of bullying and intimidation.

Issuing a travel advisory to black people warning them about travelling on AA should get them a serious lawsuit. Its based on nothing but the experiences of a few disruptive people who got themselves in trouble by causing a scene. You just do NOT do that when you're flying. And its not just "cuz I'm black".

But of course groups like this are ALL over it. Especially since one of the people causing a stink a couple weeks ago was a black activist of some sort.

This is beyond nonsense and AA and any other company attacked this way should lawyer up and fight back as strongly as necessary.

That's an awful lot of air for no balloon!

Seriously, you've made at least 6 conclusions without evidence. Care to share your private knowledge?

And DLX STILL defending the NAACP and how they outright WARNED BLACK PEOPLE ABOUT FLYING AMERICAN AIRLINES. There was no dialog here. Just intimidation and bullying and outright LYING. The usual. NAACP or BLM .. same technique.

Fight back, AA (if this nonsense goes any further).

Keep showing your bias , DLX.

Right. I've given you a lot of opportunities to man up and provide ANY evidence for your claims, yet you've wussed out every time. I've even pointed you to how you have misread what I have stated, yet you continue to prove illiterate. Is there any point with talking to you? Your mind was made up as soon as you heard the word "black," wasn't it?

And you know what it's called when your mind is already made up, right?

D L X wrote:

F27500 wrote:

D L X wrote:

That's an awful lot of air for no balloon!

Seriously, you've made at least 6 conclusions without evidence. Care to share your private knowledge?

And DLX STILL defending the NAACP and how they outright WARNED BLACK PEOPLE ABOUT FLYING AMERICAN AIRLINES. There was no dialog here. Just intimidation and bullying and outright LYING. The usual. NAACP or BLM .. same technique.

Fight back, AA (if this nonsense goes any further).

Keep showing your bias , DLX.

Right. I've given you a lot of opportunities to man up and provide ANY evidence for your claims, yet you've wussed out every time. I've even pointed you to how you have misread what I have stated, yet you continue to prove illiterate. Is there any point with talking to you? Your mind was made up as soon as you heard the word "black," wasn't it?

And you know what it's called when your mind is already made up, right?

You, nor the NAACP still haven't proven how AA has "systematic racism' either. I'd like some hard, cold evidence please.

I keep seeing the word "shakedown" used by multiple people. Is that from some talking points play book?

Super80Fan wrote:

You, nor the NAACP still haven't proven how AA has "systematic racism' either. I'd like some hard, cold evidence please.

OP has said at least twice, if not three times already that he's Black, has been a very frequent flyer with them over the last 10+ years, and has never faced a problem. That said, no one has proven the converse, that there isn't systemic racism at AA. Hiring the first Black pilot 30 years ago, and AA being a multicultural company are not cold, hard evidence. Before people flip out, I'm not saying there is a problem at AA, however the NAACP has had a pattern of behavior reported to it by numerous Black passengers. They've asked for dialogue with AA to further investigate, and Doug Parker has accepted. Both organizations have handled this situation FAR more maturely than the vast majority of participants in this thread.

Junction wrote:

D L X wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Doug Parker/AA response:

http://time.com/4996949/american-airlin ... arker-ceo/

It's a good response.

Some people on this thread should take notice.

It's a great response, and it makes me wonder even more why there is a travel advisory.

Those are exactly the right words come across with a slight undertone of being offended by the accusation.

That being said, does it claim anywhere that racism is implemented in an top down approach.
Could it be that some of AAs staff are in deed racist and feel now empowered to show it? Hate crimes have probably increased for much the same reason. People that formerly behaved do not anymore.

AA may just have had bad luck of having more such incidents reported. Or couldn't just exactly AAs long standing culture of not allowing racism, in some circles referee to as political correctness, have those AA employees that sing the company song without meaning it, become disproportionate likely to act on their impulses now?

Best regards
Thomas

D L X wrote:

Bigstud69 wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

I generally support the NAACP but this advisory is just stupid...

why its been useless for years and does nothing but shakedown companies.

Name the companies the NAACP has shaken down.

Uh, JP Morgan Chase, Wachovia come to mind. And when you factor in "Reverend" Shakedown, you can add Texaco, Anheuser-Busch, CNN, and IBM to the list. And those are just the few I can recall off the top of my head. The race-hustling poverty pimps have a long track record of this. Now it's AA's turn, evidently. I hope Parker doesn't capitulate to whatever their end goal is, because there WILL be a demand made, mark my words.

slider wrote:

D L X wrote:

Bigstud69 wrote:

why its been useless for years and does nothing but shakedown companies.

Name the companies the NAACP has shaken down.

Uh, JP Morgan Chase, Wachovia come to mind. And when you factor in "Reverend" Shakedown, you can add Texaco, Anheuser-Busch, CNN, and IBM to the list. And those are just the few I can recall off the top of my head. The race-hustling poverty pimps have a long track record of this. Now it's AA's turn, evidently. I hope Parker doesn't capitulate to whatever their end goal is, because there WILL be a demand made, mark my words.

Slider, you never fail to disappoint.

JP Morgan Chase and Wachovia admitted they need to change their practices, yet you still call that a shakedown? It must be nice standing from a position of privilege where your complaints can be considered legitimate, but others' legitimate complaints are "shake downs."

As for your "reverend shakedown" comment, are you suggesting that the NAACP and Jesse Jackson are one in the same? Like all black people are the same? (You know that makes you a racist, right? I'm just checking to make sure that's not really what you meant.)

Super80Fan wrote:

D L X wrote:

F27500 wrote:

And DLX STILL defending the NAACP and how they outright WARNED BLACK PEOPLE ABOUT FLYING AMERICAN AIRLINES. There was no dialog here. Just intimidation and bullying and outright LYING. The usual. NAACP or BLM .. same technique.

Fight back, AA (if this nonsense goes any further).

Keep showing your bias , DLX.

Right. I've given you a lot of opportunities to man up and provide ANY evidence for your claims, yet you've wussed out every time. I've even pointed you to how you have misread what I have stated, yet you continue to prove illiterate. Is there any point with talking to you? Your mind was made up as soon as you heard the word "black," wasn't it?

And you know what it's called when your mind is already made up, right?

You, nor the NAACP still haven't proven how AA has "systematic racism' either. I'd like some hard, cold evidence please.

I have no idea why you're going after me. I've said on this thread repeatedly that I'm waiting to hear more from the NAACP too. It's not my job to prove their case.

What I'm chastising certain members of this forum about is their knee-jerk response that the allegation was untrue without a shred of evidence to support their argument. As in, they haven't even heard the case, and they've already issued a verdict. One poor schmuck was so forlorn by the request to meet with AA that he called it "EXTORTION" to even make the claim.

I swear, some of you folks get so wrapped up in your fear of discussing race that you will put up the most ridiculous defenses possible.

I agree with this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/26/opinions/ ... index.html

D L X wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

Sorry to see the NAACP take this low road, If I were a black employee at AA, I would be embarrassed by this issue,

I dare say that if you were a black employee at AA, or even just black, you might likely have a different perspective on the issue completely.

(As in, be careful when you speak for others. )

One more pathetic response to this serious issue. I guess you don't get it or maybe you just don't understand the issue to begin with. The NAACP has tuned from a once honrable organization to a full blown racist and routinely paractices extortion and promotes cop killings.

sw733 wrote:

you're making the assumption that corporate culture doesn't change. Corporate culture can change massively in the matter of a few years, let alone several decades. Again, I don't think AA has...but it certainly can.

The issue mightn't be "corporate culture" I doubt that anyone will have an official policy to badly treat a particular group. It might be the usual. Implicit bias by individuals (not necessarily intending to be racist) that results in less favorable treatment. Then the accusation might be that management has to ensure that their employees don't engage in implicit bias.

If the NAACP cannot fashion their accusations in that manner then this ought to be laughed out of court. Blacks, African Americans and others, are too important a part of that airline's customer base for a conscious policy decision for upper management to deliberately hassle these people. An interesting test will be how passengers of flights like MIA KIN, where most passengers will be black, are treated.

slider wrote:

[Uh, JP Morgan Chase, Wachovia come to mind. And when you factor in "Reverend" Shakedown, you can add Texaco, Anheuser-Busch, CNN, and IBM to the list. And those are just the few I can recall off the top of my head. The race-hustling poverty pimps have a long track record of this. Now it's AA's turn, evidently. I hope Parker doesn't capitulate to whatever their end goal is, because there WILL be a demand made, mark my words.

Amazing the Angry Trump Voter always arises. Do you see any demands for compensation? I suspect that a dialogue with the management to uncover where, why and how such bias occurs, if it does. Then further dialogue as to how AA can improve the travel experience of its black passengers, so that they don't defect to the competition. That is if such dialogue shows that the adverse incidents will more likely involve black than nonblack passengers.

I suspect AA is quite interested in this dialogue. Blacks pay the same fares as do others and AA would prefer that they benefit from these expenditures.

FACT. Not all accusations of racism are valid, but racism still exists. It mightn't be the conscious racism of the 60s. It might just be the notion that people who look a certain way are less deserving of consideration than are others. There is a test that shows that some people, when shown the face of a black man, subconsciously react badly to them. And many are shocked when this fact about them is uncovered when the test is scored. Interesting thing is even some blacks carry this implicit bias.

I suggest that those who don't belong to a particular group don't lecture to that group about what they experience. You don't know as you just don't know. So be silent, listen and learn something! This me being polite, as if I met you face to face I would be way more blunt.

BravoOne wrote:

[

One more pathetic response to this serious issue. I guess you don't get it or maybe you just don't understand the issue to begin with. The NAACP has tuned from a once honrable organization to a full blown racist and routinely paractices extortion and promotes cop killings.

Funny thing this. They are more frequently accused of being ineffective. The notion that the NAACP is a militant radical black power organization is a joke. Don't see anyone giving the New Black Panthers corporate donations, and they are definitely what most would consider to be militant. The mere fact that the NAACP relies heavily on corporate donations suggest in fact that they are NOT militant.

BTW the NAACP and Martin Luther King were considered to be anti white racist communists by many in the 1960s, and not all who thought this were Southerners.

BravoOne wrote:

D L X wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

Sorry to see the NAACP take this low road, If I were a black employee at AA, I would be embarrassed by this issue,

I dare say that if you were a black employee at AA, or even just black, you might likely have a different perspective on the issue completely.

(As in, be careful when you speak for others. )

One more pathetic response to this serious issue. I guess you don't get it or maybe you just don't understand the issue to begin with. The NAACP has tuned from a once honrable organization to a full blown racist and routinely paractices extortion and promotes cop killings.

Pathetic? Hardly. I responded respectfully to your frankly arrogant post. You are not black, and yet you are attempting to speak on behalf of black people, TO A BLACK PERSON. That is arrogant. I was nice to you.

As for your insuinuation that the NAACP encourages cop killing, that’s just slanderous.

D L X wrote:

I agree with this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/26/opinions/ ... index.html

I think that's a pretty fair analysis. I'm not schooled on the details of what might be the case, so I certainly can't blanketly say there's absolutely no problem, nor lazily argue that just because AA hired the first black pilot they're somehow beyond reproach...but a based on the lack of info the NAACP has put out there, the issuance of a "travel advisory" raises an eyebrow.

Brickell305 wrote:

F9Animal wrote:

I find the accusation to be disgusting. AA also employs a large amount of African Americans. The NAACP is hurting their own. Shame on the NAACP!!

I don't understand this statement at all. Are you saying that a company that hires black people can't be racist? Or that because they hire black people that some racism can be looked over because addressing it may hurt the black people it employs?

Neither. American Airlines isn't racist. That's like calling all white people racist. That's like saying all black people are racist. I guess the privilege to cry racism without proof of racism is just that.

F9Animal wrote:

[Neither. American Airlines isn't racist. That's like calling all white people racist. That's like saying all black people are racist. I guess the privilege to cry racism without proof of racism is just that.

There is something called institutional racism and also implicit bias against people of color, especially blacks. Just as there is towards women, towards immigrants (especially those who speak English with heavy accents), and towards poor whites, especially those from a rural background.

If you don't fit into any of these categories you will never get it and I don't intend to argue with you concepts beyond your comprehension.

guyanam wrote:

If you don't fit into any of these categories you will never get it and I don't intend to argue with you concepts beyond your comprehension.

Don't forget to include those who evince your form of elitism in your list of disadvantaged groups.

guyanam wrote:

F9Animal wrote:

[Neither. American Airlines isn't racist. That's like calling all white people racist. That's like saying all black people are racist. I guess the privilege to cry racism without proof of racism is just that.

There is something called institutional racism and also implicit bias against people of color, especially blacks. Just as there is towards women, towards immigrants (especially those who speak English with heavy accents), and towards poor whites, especially those from a rural background.

If you don't fit into any of these categories you will never get it and I don't intend to argue with you concepts beyond your comprehension.

Black privilege. LOL!!

F9Animal wrote:

guyanam wrote:

F9Animal wrote:

[Neither. American Airlines isn't racist. That's like calling all white people racist. That's like saying all black people are racist. I guess the privilege to cry racism without proof of racism is just that.

There is something called institutional racism and also implicit bias against people of color, especially blacks. Just as there is towards women, towards immigrants (especially those who speak English with heavy accents), and towards poor whites, especially those from a rural background.

If you don't fit into any of these categories you will never get it and I don't intend to argue with you concepts beyond your comprehension.

Black privilege. LOL!!

When a Black man walks down the street, ignorant White people tense up. The "Build The Wall" mantra on the right assumes anyone who speaks Spanish is illegal. Burqua=terrorist. If you don't see any of that then you are part of the problem.