I've been to 3 supermarkets between yesterday and today, and could only find a small, expensive pack of butter with algae in it, and another one with pepper and lemon. The later is alright, the former is a bit hard to get used to. Neither will do for cooking, or baking.

Unlike my parents I don't eat a lot of butter, but I like it on my baguette for weekend breakfast, now I'm feeling the withdrawal. The price of the good croissants I sometimes buy has increased significantly in light of the shortage.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/20 ... grows.html

Considering we're making too much milk, it's crazy that there isn't enough butter. But from what I'm gathering the problem is that there isn't enough demand for the skim milk that is a byproduct of butter-making, so the butter is simply not produced in quantities sufficient to satisfy the demand. Demand that has become global thanks to the exportations of our good recipes.

Maybe they should import plenty of Kerrygold. Very hard to beat Irish dairy produce.

Butter shortage? Is there some rule in France about butter that limits it? I was in Costco yesterday, picked up a five-pack of butter:


They have pallets of butter in their refrigerators (they also carry Kerrygold butter).

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

I was in Costco yesterday, picked up a five-pack of butter:

They have pallets of butter in their refrigerators (they also carry Kerrygold butter).

Tugg

I prefer their organic product, but agreed, our local Costco, Sam's and Kroger seem to have plenty of butter...and milk. Nothing in the news about it at all.

I wonder if I should hoard some for the holiday cooking?

US butter doesn't look like butter to me (but I've never tasted it).

Kerrygold seems good, I suspect that supermarkets aren't ready to import unknown brands yet. France having a big butter production and tradition, people are used to buy French butter.

I wonder what industrials are doing though, the other day they were showing an industrial bakery where people were being sent home due to the shortage.

Not having something like butter available seems so Soviet Unionish to me.

Aesma wrote:

I've been to 3 supermarkets between yesterday and today, and could only find a small, expensive pack of butter with algae in it, and another one with pepper and lemon. The later is alright, the former is a bit hard to get used to. Neither will do for cooking, or baking.

Unlike my parents I don't eat a lot of butter, but I like it on my baguette for weekend breakfast, now I'm feeling the withdrawal. The price of the good croissants I sometimes buy has increased significantly in light of the shortage.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/20 ... grows.html

Considering we're making too much milk, it's crazy that there isn't enough butter. But from what I'm gathering the problem is that there isn't enough demand for the skim milk that is a byproduct of butter-making, so the butter is simply not produced in quantities sufficient to satisfy the demand. Demand that has become global thanks to the exportations of our good recipes.

From what i understand, it is an export issue. Too much demand for French pastries and butter abroad. It brings in money for France, but it seems you all are suffering for it. Butter is Butter to me. There is solid, soft, sweet, and salt. Other than that, butter is nothing next to cheese. I find cheese has more distinct flavoring. .

You can't put it on baguette (well, and have it be the same anyway, I like to dip baguette in olive oil), but I switched to various oils for all my cooking, most of which are a lot healthier, though coconut oil is debatable.

We had an 80 % price increase since the beginning of the year here in Germany. But at least there's still enough butter in the shelves.

Prices of butter in Poland have almost doubled in the past few months.... Anyone have a clue about what's causing this?

Increased demand for milk after a period of reduced production due to the over production of the past.

You need about 18-22 litres of milk for one kilogram butter, now look at the price of one litre milk and one kilo butter, it is obvious that the farmer makes more money when he sells the milk as milk and not for the production of butter.

OA260 wrote:

Maybe they should import plenty of Kerrygold. Very hard to beat Irish dairy produce.

NZ made anchor, not the shit made in Europe with the anchor brand is the best butter.

seahawk wrote:

Increased demand for milk after a period of reduced production due to the over production of the past.

You need about 18-22 litres of milk for one kilogram butter, now look at the price of one litre milk and one kilo butter, it is obvious that the farmer makes more money when he sells the milk as milk and not for the production of butter.

That’s not how it works, farmers sell the raw milk, they make the same amount per kg of milk solids regardless of what it becomes down the line.

salttee wrote:

Not having something like butter available seems so Soviet Unionish to me.

It happened in Norway two Christmas’s in a row. It was completely artificial, farmers were flushing excess production down the drain, the dairy companies couldn’t collect it because each farmer has a production quota.

Kiwirob wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Maybe they should import plenty of Kerrygold. Very hard to beat Irish dairy produce.

NZ made anchor, not the shit made in Europe with the anchor brand is the best butter.

My Mum used to buy it in the 80's when it was the real stuff. Still prefer Kerrygold though.

Strange. Here in México in the relevant supermarkets there are tons of French butter, which is the one I buy. Argentine butter is much better, but that one is not easy to find so as my second choice I get the French one. No shortage here.

Specifically regarding butter; I would like to see a photograph of a typical supermarket display from 30 years ago, and compare it with today.

I reckon that even within the last 4 years I have seen the butter section shrink, and shrink again.
Meanwhile the adjacent section for margarine & artificial spreads has grown.
And then there are the "imbetweenies"; spreadables, that may or may not feature the word BUTTER in large print on the packaging, along with various other ingredients in a much smaller print size.
After you have taken these imposters out of the equation, the genuine 100% butter section is miniscule.
How did that happen?

That implies lower demand for butter, so why the shortage?

Kiwirob wrote:

seahawk wrote:

Increased demand for milk after a period of reduced production due to the over production of the past.

You need about 18-22 litres of milk for one kilogram butter, now look at the price of one litre milk and one kilo butter, it is obvious that the farmer makes more money when he sells the milk as milk and not for the production of butter.

That’s not how it works, farmers sell the raw milk, they make the same amount per kg of milk solids regardless of what it becomes down the line.

Sure, but when the raw milk sees more demand, it more efficient to sell it as milk and not as butter and the prices for raw milk have risen constantly.

seahawk wrote:

You need about 18-22 litres of milk for one kilogram butter,
Sure, but when the raw milk sees more demand, it more efficient to sell it as milk and not as butter and the prices for raw milk have risen constantly.

Firstly, I'm hoping we are both on the same page as regards "raw milk" (= unpasteurised, straight from the farm) and "raw milk" (i.e. milk on the supermarket shelf, not processed into cheese or butter)

There is an "efficiency" aspect when you bring in the wholesaler, and the whole supermarket chain thing. And above all transport costs.
There will be pasteurisation & bottling costs related to milk in it's liquid form.
There will be different costs associated with churning milk into butter, and then different packaging costs related to this solid form.

Both within the factory/warehouse, and out on the road, I'm guessing it is a tad easier to move 1kg of butter than 18-22 litres of milk.
Ditto storage at cold temperatures.

And finally, how long can you store milk, and still sell it?
...versus how long can you store butter, and still sell it?
NZ used to transport it's butter via ship to the UK for sale at premium prices. You don't have that option with milk.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

How did that happen?

I believe butter has gotten a bad rap in the last couple of decades. The saturated fats have become a pariah in our diets, quite wrongly, if you ask me.

People tend to look for more unsaturated fats in their diets, which is understandable, but to be honest I don't think all these vegetable oil based butter substitutes are necessarily very good for the health, especially when cooked. Nor do they taste as good as butter. They're also full of nasty trans fats.

On the other hand, they are softer and easier to spread, which does make them more practical to use.

But there's nothing wrong with butter. Just like everything else, it's about moderation and a reasonably healthy and active lifestyle.

seahawk wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

seahawk wrote:

Increased demand for milk after a period of reduced production due to the over production of the past.

You need about 18-22 litres of milk for one kilogram butter, now look at the price of one litre milk and one kilo butter, it is obvious that the farmer makes more money when he sells the milk as milk and not for the production of butter.

That’s not how it works, farmers sell the raw milk, they make the same amount per kg of milk solids regardless of what it becomes down the line.

Sure, but when the raw milk sees more demand, it more efficient to sell it as milk and not as butter and the prices for raw milk have risen constantly.

the farmers don’t decide what it’s used for, that’s up to the dairy company they supply, farmers get the same price per kg regardless of its end use.

The skim milk you get after having made butter is often transformed into powdered milk then exported, to China where there is demand as they build up their own capabilities, and to Africa, where it destroys the local farmers. Apparently one problem is that there is not enough demand for that milk.

AR385 wrote:

Strange. Here in México in the relevant supermarkets there are tons of French butter, which is the one I buy. Argentine butter is much better, but that one is not easy to find so as my second choice I get the French one. No shortage here.

So, that's your fault then ! Give me back my butter !

Tugger wrote:

Butter shortage? Is there some rule in France about butter that limits it? I was in Costco yesterday, picked up a five-pack of butter:


They have pallets of butter in their refrigerators (they also carry Kerrygold butter).

Tugg

Don't buy that. Buy Kerrygold or USDA certified organic (or) even from a local dairy. They inject hormones to yield more milk, unfortunately, that yields excessive pus.

Some prefer Oberweis even though it is not USDA certified organic. It pays dairies to exclude milk from sick cows. Even USDA certified organic doesn't guarantee the quality.

Aesma wrote:

The skim milk you get after having made butter is often transformed into powdered milk then exported, to China where there is demand as they build up their own capabilities, and to Africa, where it destroys the local farmers. Apparently one problem is that there is not enough demand for that milk.

AR385 wrote:

Strange. Here in México in the relevant supermarkets there are tons of French butter, which is the one I buy. Argentine butter is much better, but that one is not easy to find so as my second choice I get the French one. No shortage here.

So, that's your fault then ! Give me back my butter !

This is the one mostly available and the one I get, in salted and unsalted presentations. But there are other brands.

Kiwirob wrote:

seahawk wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

That’s not how it works, farmers sell the raw milk, they make the same amount per kg of milk solids regardless of what it becomes down the line.

Sure, but when the raw milk sees more demand, it more efficient to sell it as milk and not as butter and the prices for raw milk have risen constantly.

the farmers don’t decide what it’s used for, that’s up to the dairy company they supply, farmers get the same price per kg regardless of its end use.

Sure but farmers have increased their prices, as demand has fallen. And when supermarkets and dairy companies can sell one litre of milk for about half the price of 250g butter, butter production is low yielding. The low prices of butter depended on an over supply of raw milk, when it made more sense to make butter and skimmed milk (mostly ending up as milk powder) than to throw away milk.

Kiwirob wrote:

seahawk wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

That’s not how it works, farmers sell the raw milk, they make the same amount per kg of milk solids regardless of what it becomes down the line.

Sure, but when the raw milk sees more demand, it more efficient to sell it as milk and not as butter and the prices for raw milk have risen constantly.

the farmers don’t decide what it’s used for, that’s up to the dairy company they supply, farmers get the same price per kg regardless of its end use.

at least in Germany dairies are often owned by groups of farmers in a confederation structure and they get to decide what they make.

However, Butter and Cheese is usually made from milk you can´t sell as milk for reasonable prices, so if supply meets that demand better, all other milk products go up in price. That change is just more pronounced in butter than it is for cheese.

best regards
Thomas.

Butter in the USA has gone up in price in recent years and can vary considerably. Aldi will sell USA made butter for $2.69/US Pound (455 Gms), while the same basic butter at a regular grocery story or Walmart will have a regular price of $4.99 and national brands at $5.99 with maybe sale prices of $3.49 to $3.99. Prices are higher during the summer.and lower during the winter due to lower production in the summer from cows. Parts of the reasons in the USA for higher prices for butter and some other dairy products include declining demand for dairy products due to health and cultural reasons, fewer diaries to process milk products so higher transportation costs for milk, climate change and irregular weather affecting production. Still there is plenty of butter available in supermarkets.

AR385 wrote:

Strange. Here in México in the relevant supermarkets there are tons of French butter, which is the one I buy. Argentine butter is much better, but that one is not easy to find so as my second choice I get the French one. No shortage here.

That's because export prices are generally higher than domestic prices, so French producers would rather sell it at a premium to Mexico than in the local market.

After dairy quotas were abolished a couple years back there was a massive overproduction last year, which led to incredibly low prices at the farm. Understandably, farms have reduced their production and this year prices are skyrocketing.

Next year may stabilise again, or it may again result in overproduction and rock-bottom prices. That's just how the market works.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/agricu ... -year-end/

Tugger wrote:

Butter shortage? Is there some rule in France about butter that limits it?

I'm guessing that the Christmas seasonal demand might play a part in it. Scandinavia (and also Germany) go absolutely nuts with butter in this period. Scandinavians are also richer and more willing to pay higher prices, so guess where the manufacturers will send the butter...

Norway is a different case regarding their shortages. They are outside of the EU, and have placed a bunch of protective quotas on dairy imports among other things, so when local manufacturers fail to keep up, they can't pick up the slack by importing.

Butter prices in TLS haven't gone up noticeably this year and there's definitely no shortage!

The problem in france is due to a law that makes producers and supermakets establish a buying price for a year before march every year. That year due to the shortage of french milk and the huge demand from countries like china, the price went up and supermarkets refused to negotiate a new price. So the cheapest products could not be produced. Only the greater producers of butter can produce and sell as usual, all the other butter/milk was exported.

VSMUT wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Butter shortage? Is there some rule in France about butter that limits it?

Norway is a different case regarding their shortages. They are outside of the EU, and have placed a bunch of protective quotas on dairy imports among other things, so when local manufacturers fail to keep up, they can't pick up the slack by importing.

That’s not correct when Norway had its butter shortages over two Christmases Time the major producer asked for and were granted dispensation to purchase supplies from offshore, most of the butter was supplied from a producer in Belgium. The first year the Belgium butter provided more popular than the local product so the next year Tine sent food technologists to Beligium help them produce the butter to the same formula as the Norwegian variety.

Kiwirob wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Butter shortage? Is there some rule in France about butter that limits it?

Norway is a different case regarding their shortages. They are outside of the EU, and have placed a bunch of protective quotas on dairy imports among other things, so when local manufacturers fail to keep up, they can't pick up the slack by importing.

That’s not correct when Norway had its butter shortages over two Christmases Time the major producer asked for and were granted dispensation to purchase supplies from offshore, most of the butter was supplied from a producer in Belgium. The first year the Belgium butter provided more popular than the local product so the next year Tine sent food technologists to Belgium help them produce the butter to the same formula as the Norwegian variety.

It's still a controlled market. If the market were truly free, then any grossist could have imported whatever amount of butter he/she found necessary and the shortage wouldn't have existed. Why do you think we never have any butter shortages in Denmark, regardless of popularity/tv-shows/new brands etc? Arla isn't the sole importer of butter and cheese here. In Norway you can practically set your calendar to the shortages, and the one major difference between the two countries on this field, is that Norway isn't a member of the free market.

The shortages only happened twice and Tine isn’t the sole importer, just the biggest one.

Redd wrote:

Prices of butter in Poland have almost doubled in the past few months.... Anyone have a clue about what's causing this?

A few years ago the EU abandoned the milk quota system. That caused production to rise and consequently prices dropped to unsustainably low levels.

That of course caused decreased production. Farmers slaughtered their cows and switched to what they thought was more profitable production. Production dropped slightly and prices went back to normal.

There is plenty of butter to be had at fair market price. If we google "butter shortage", then we get a long list of French horror stories. Why France only?

My guess: Butter is made from milk fat, so is cheese. France is a huge exporter of all sorts of fancy and expensive cheese. That production is a high value production, much more so than plain butter. Consequently cheese production and export is unaffected, while the small decrease in milk fat production is taken away from butter production only.

French supermarkets can buy all the butter they want for instance here in Denmark. At the new market price of course. They probably don't want to temporarily introduce foreign brands at "high" prices, when they expect the situation to normalise pretty soon as cows give birth to calves every day.

Kiwirob wrote:

The shortages only happened twice and Tine isn’t the sole importer, just the biggest one.

The number of importers is irrelevant. What matters is the prohibitively high Norwegian import tax on food products.

That's the Norwegian way to keep up own food production and the countryside populated in a world with low world market prices. The EU way is to subsidize the producers. The result is the same, it's just another way to reach the same goal.

In 2015 Denmark exported 7,700 tonnes of butter to Sweden, but only 10 tonnes to Norway. Where do you think the bulk of that Swedish imported butter was sold to consumers? Stockholm? Svinesund?

Double post deleted

Cheese also only needs 4-13l milk per kg while it usually achieves a higher price per kg than butter.