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Dutchy
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Posts: 4058
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Clean Power Plan repeal

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:11 am

Forget about IS or the nut in Pyongyang, human-induced climate change is the worlds primary security risk. And one of the primary polluters per capita is taking huge steps backward: repealing the Clean Power Plan. Still, the narrowly minded interest and their lobbiest win from common sense and self-preservation for all but please go ahead to defend these fossil fuel interest.

"The war on coal is over," EPA administrator Scott Pruitt told an audience in Kentucky yesterday, as he announced his intention to sign a rule rolling back the Clean Power Plan (CPP).


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41567471

A bit of good news, The Netherlands has a new government (almost 7 months after the elections) and there is actually good news for the climate:
- CO2 reduction 2030: 49%
- national climate and energy treaty will be the goal to facilitate the energy transition
- short term: more wind energy on the north sea, more incentives in the tax code to favor green.
- no more biomass subsidies
- closing all coal power plants before 2030
- after 2021 new build homes and other buildings will not be heated by natural gas
- air travel tax: 10 - 15 euro's for routes originating in the Netherlands
- no more fossil fueled powered new cars can be sold after 2030
Last edited by Dutchy on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
log0008
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:17 am

Excuse me but what on earth does this have to do with aviation? This is an aviation forum, not some university safe space
 
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Dutchy
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Posts: 4058
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:37 am

log0008 wrote:
Excuse me but what on earth does this have to do with aviation? This is an aviation forum, not some university safe space


Oep, mods, please move to non-aviation forum.

Although the new government in The Netherlands did announce an aviation tax.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 4058
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:39 pm

Nobody cares about this?

I have heard a beautiful talk from Jan Terlouw yesterday (google him). He said many true things, two most memorable:
- our duty is to leave the earth a bit better then we found it
- goods and services should be priced the right way (so the current cost plus the cost the product causes) then sustainable wins every time
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
NoTime
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:54 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?


No.
 
330west
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:35 am

Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?

I have heard a beautiful talk from Jan Terlouw yesterday (google him). He said many true things, two most memorable:
- our duty is to leave the earth a bit better then we found it
- goods and services should be priced the right way (so the current cost plus the cost the product causes) then sustainable wins every time


The Trump administration has become so predictable. I do care but the folks who support him - mostly white middle aged f-ups who should just off themselves - are going to spout off the same old crap so why bother.
Always fly first class, otherwise your heirs will.
 
N867DA
Posts: 1023
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am

NoTime wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?


No.


People care. We'll just need to wait some time to right the wrongs of this administration. :)
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
Ken777
Posts: 9448
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:46 am

Sec Pruitt came from Oklahoma (I'm ashamed to say) and he has big smile for the energy industry. I think he hands out deposit slips instead of business cards. The guy was humming for president in the future by building support from eat energy companies. Workers in the coal mines mean nothing to him.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 9403
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Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:25 am

Is Trump still talking about "clean coal" or is that a thing of the past.

Honestly I can understand people not caring about CO2 emissions because that's more convenient, and you don't see that pollution. I can't understand how one can accept large scale mountaintop removal mining, it's absolutely horrendous.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:31 am

Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?


We do care, but unless the US states don´t fix the inaptness of the current federal government, and most do, there is not much we can do unless the ROW actually gets around to enforce climate regulations by sanctions if need be.

NoTime wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?


No.


Funny how the same people agree that Climate change isn´t a problem are also fine with sexual harassment and lots of other human right abuses. I think there is a pattern there.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10928
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:48 am

Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?

I have heard a beautiful talk from Jan Terlouw yesterday (google him). He said many true things, two most memorable:
- our duty is to leave the earth a bit better then we found it
- goods and services should be priced the right way (so the current cost plus the cost the product causes) then sustainable wins every time


Nobody cares because the world doesn’t have the balls to do anything about the US, I personally think an embargo of the US until Trump is removed would be a good idea.
 
User avatar
maortega15
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:52 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:11 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Nobody cares because the world doesn’t have the balls to do anything about the US, I personally think an embargo of the US until Trump is removed would be a good idea.

A travel ban wouldn't hurt either (oxymoron there!). I mean, what's more dangerous, walking the streets of a country like Chad or walking the streets of South Side, Chicago?! :scratchchin:

P.s. things seem to be brighter in your neck of the woods Kiwi!! :bigthumbsup:
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:23 am

Once again, Trump is destroying every progressive, fact-derived and forward-looking measures passed during the Obama years.

He has always seemed to have an unhealthy fixation on Obama. I believe it's an acute inferiority complex, probably part of his broader and extremely strong narcissistic disorder.

I guess that in his tiny mind, if he can't get anything done with his government, he'll just destroy everything that was done by the previous one...
But of course, the ultimate goal is to look after his millionaire/billionaire buddies at the head of the big energy companies, all of whom have lobbied him and his administration to remove the environmental constraints which were restricting their profits.

So what if they ruin the environment? Rich people aren't really the ones suffering from pollution and global climate change anyway.

All that winning...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 4058
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:48 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Once again, Trump is destroying every progressive, fact-derived and forward-looking measures passed during the Obama years.


But that is the whole point. It shouldn't be a political issue, it is something which involves the whole world. Burning coal and other fossil fuels should have the same status as child labor and tobacco industry.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5891
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Forget about IS or the nut in Pyongyang, human-induced climate change is the worlds primary security risk. And one of the primary polluters per capita is taking huge steps backward: repealing the Clean Power Plan. Still, the narrowly minded interest and their lobbiest win from common sense and self-preservation for all but please go ahead to defend these fossil fuel interest.

"The war on coal is over," EPA administrator Scott Pruitt told an audience in Kentucky yesterday, as he announced his intention to sign a rule rolling back the Clean Power Plan (CPP).


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41567471

A bit of good news, The Netherlands has a new government (almost 7 months after the elections) and there is actually good news for the climate:
- CO2 reduction 2030: 49%
- national climate and energy treaty will be the goal to facilitate the energy transition
- short term: more wind energy on the north sea, more incentives in the tax code to favor green.
- no more biomass subsidies
- closing all coal power plants before 2030
- after 2021 new build homes and other buildings will not be heated by natural gas
- air travel tax: 10 - 15 euro's for routes originating in the Netherlands
- no more fossil fueled powered new cars can be sold after 2030




Things are not as dire as the BBC makes it. As the below article points out, there are economic reasons why Coal is already in a ton of troubple even without the CCP. However the Trump administration is beholden to big business and is not performing in any of it's capacity to protect the people, other than the businesses are people too argument.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clean-powe ... nd-losers/
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 4058
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:59 pm

Not just coal, the world needs to back away from burning fossil fuel. Nice statistic: per second the sun produces the equivalent of 10.000.000 barrels of oil, per world citizen.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
dmg626
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:11 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?

I have heard a beautiful talk from Jan Terlouw yesterday (google him). He said many true things, two most memorable:
- our duty is to leave the earth a bit better then we found it
- goods and services should be priced the right way (so the current cost plus the cost the product causes) then sustainable wins every time


Nobody cares because the world doesn’t have the balls to do anything about the US, I personally think an embargo of the US until Trump is removed would be a good idea.



Haha, that's a good one. Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9403
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:08 am

BNP Paribas, the 8th largest bank in the world, just announced plans to stop working with shale oil and gas players. The bank also said that it would no longer finance new projects that are primarily involved in the transportation or export of oil and gas from shale or oil sands.

The bank previously said it planned to spend 15 billion euros ($17.72 billion) to finance renewable energy projects by 2020 and invest 100 million euros in start-ups specializing in energy storage and efficiency.

The lender has already stopped financing coal mines and coal-fired power plants, and no longer supports coal companies that are not planning to diversify their energy sources.

BNP Paribas's smaller rival Societe Generale said in October last year that it would quit financing coal-powered electricity plants from January and increase its support for renewable energy projects.

from : https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/11/bnp-par ... jects.html
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:34 am

dmg626 wrote:
Haha, that's a good one. Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home.


i guess we are supposed to believe that such world policing has been done selflessly....

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:54 am

dmg626 wrote:
Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home...


...in a fit of crippling paranoid dementia.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10928
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:11 am

dmg626 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Nobody cares about this?

I have heard a beautiful talk from Jan Terlouw yesterday (google him). He said many true things, two most memorable:
- our duty is to leave the earth a bit better then we found it
- goods and services should be priced the right way (so the current cost plus the cost the product causes) then sustainable wins every time


Nobody cares because the world doesn’t have the balls to do anything about the US, I personally think an embargo of the US until Trump is removed would be a good idea.



Haha, that's a good one. Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home.


You’re not a good policeman, you’re the white cop killing the unarmed black teenage girl kind of policeman! The world doesn’t need you especially with the mentally retarded pensioner in the White House.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 am

Kiwirob wrote:
with the mentally retarded pensioner in the White House.


Sociopath and wannabe mass-murderer, just being retarded wouldn´t be so bad.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
dmg626
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:47 pm

Francoflier wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home...


...in a fit of crippling paranoid dementia.


Many countries would now be speaking German and or Russian languages without the US , close all the overseas bases and send the troops home. See how quick the crap would hit the fan
 
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Tugger
Posts: 7051
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:39 am

dmg626 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home...


...in a fit of crippling paranoid dementia.


Many countries would now be speaking German and or Russian languages without the US , close all the overseas bases and send the troops home. See how quick the crap would hit the fan

You do understand that would be extremely damaging to the USA don't you?

No, I suspect you don't. The really rich and strong guy that sits in his basement all day playing video games is of no use or influence to those around him. Only if that person engages with others and works with (or for) others and helps others does he have any power or influence. Great defend your basement... but the world goes on without you. Kinda like the "Trump brand", why is it valuable? Only because others desire it and Trump is willing to sell it. If he doesn't it loses value and influence.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4262
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:49 am

dmg626 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
Ok rest of the world, get a new policeman, this ones going home...


...in a fit of crippling paranoid dementia.


Many countries would now be speaking German and or Russian languages without the US , close all the overseas bases and send the troops home. See how quick the crap would hit the fan


Wait... are you advocating for US global non-interventionism and isolation, or the opposite?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9403
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:31 am

The US didn't care that my country was invaded until their precious fleet was attacked on the other side of the planet.

I hope we're getting out of fossil fuels and my country has banned drilling basically, even though we certainly have significant resources. Coal is simply not economical.

If things turn for the worse somehow, well, these resources will still be there.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
dmg626
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:26 pm

Tugger wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

...in a fit of crippling paranoid dementia.


Many countries would now be speaking German and or Russian languages without the US , close all the overseas bases and send the troops home. See how quick the crap would hit the fan

You do understand that would be extremely damaging to the USA don't you?

No, I suspect you don't. The really rich and strong guy that sits in his basement all day playing video games is of no use or influence to those around him. Only if that person engages with others and works with (or for) others and helps others does he have any power or influence. Great defend your basement... but the world goes on without you. Kinda like the "Trump brand", why is it valuable? Only because others desire it and Trump is willing to sell it. If he doesn't it loses value and influence.

Tugg


As would an embargo of the US which was suggested by one of your tugging buddies
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9403
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:42 pm

I don't think there will be an embargo, nor a need for one. A carbon tax would be enough.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 4058
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:56 pm

Aesma wrote:
I don't think there will be an embargo, nor a need for one. A carbon tax would be enough.


Fair pricing indeed is necessary.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Ken777
Posts: 9448
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:59 pm

Aesma wrote:
The US didn't care that my country was invaded until their precious fleet was attacked on the other side of the planet.

I hope we're getting out of fossil fuels and my country has banned drilling basically, even though we certainly have significant resources. Coal is simply not economical.

If things turn for the worse somehow, well, these resources will still be there.


When things got nasty in Europe we ate least had a President with the wisdom to anticipate what would need two be done, and the wisdom to get into Lend Lease agreements to provide help out the back door. Sadly our current President lacks anything close to wisdom.

Right now the government here should be offering excellent deals for taxpayers to add solar power panels to their homes and small businesses. Why am I not surprised that Trump could care less about moving the country forward?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Clean Power Plan repeal

Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:04 am

Ken777 wrote:
When things got nasty in Europe we ate least had a President with the wisdom to anticipate what would need two be done, and the wisdom to get into Lend Lease agreements to provide help out the back door.


That was mostly a good business decission, because another thing the would have been needed done, was letting refugees in. You know, then ones that made it to the US to be turned back to die in concentration camps......

Sadly our current President lacks anything close to wisdom.


Unfortunately that is true.

Right now the government here should be offering excellent deals for taxpayers to add solar power panels to their homes and small businesses.


Exactly, the return on investment is good, just not everyone has the money to invest. Is there still a place in the US where renewables don´t have grid parity?

Why am I not surprised that Trump could care less about moving the country forward?


Wild guess: Solar and Wind Power companies are not among his biggest donors, i would expect legislation to limit citizens ability to use their own power introduced shortly. If i recall correctly some, some areas in the US already have rules that makes using ones own power as unattractive as can be without actually stealing the panels of the roofs.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D

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