seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:58 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

They have an FFL. They have to run background checks unless the customers have a carry license. I don't think EBay allows guns to be sold through their website, although they allow the sale of accessories. I don't think Craigslist allows the listing of firearms.


This site shows what background checks are done with private sales in each state:

http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-tr ... state.html

So, basically, none in Republican controlled states.


The people in question have an FFL (Federal Firearms License). If you read the first line of the section where the individual state regulations are listed, it says:

Background Check When Seller Is Not a Licensed Dealer


The friends of which I was talking are licenced firearm dealers. They are therefore required to run a background check with every sale unless the purchaser has a carry license.

People who have licenses to carry have already undergone a more stringent background check and have to renew every 5 years. Also anyone with a CL must present the CL anytime a police officer requests to see it. It must be presented along with a a driver's license if pulled over for a driving infraction. They must be kept up to date. If the holder moves, the address must be promptly changed. Lost or stolen cards must be reported promptly.

There is no requirement for registration of firearms in my home state of Texas. It is legal to gift firearms to people who are not forbidden to possess them. Gifts of firearms to minors are only allowed with the permission of the parent or guardian. Handguns may not be owned by anyone under 18. It is legal to inherit firearms too.


Did you read the last line of the first paragraph?

Some states require background checks for private sales, usually through a licensed intermediary, but others have few to no regulations on private gun sales.


Some states require background checks on private sales. Other states have little or no regulations on private sales.

And when a person can murder 60 people in less than fifteen minutes from a hundred feet away or more, then we can talk about knife control. But, for now, we NEED gun control. Which is not the same as "ban them all" but the right does not understand that.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 1281
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

This site shows what background checks are done with private sales in each state:

http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-tr ... state.html

So, basically, none in Republican controlled states.


The people in question have an FFL (Federal Firearms License). If you read the first line of the section where the individual state regulations are listed, it says:

Background Check When Seller Is Not a Licensed Dealer


The friends of which I was talking are licenced firearm dealers. They are therefore required to run a background check with every sale unless the purchaser has a carry license.

People who have licenses to carry have already undergone a more stringent background check and have to renew every 5 years. Also anyone with a CL must present the CL anytime a police officer requests to see it. It must be presented along with a a driver's license if pulled over for a driving infraction. They must be kept up to date. If the holder moves, the address must be promptly changed. Lost or stolen cards must be reported promptly.

There is no requirement for registration of firearms in my home state of Texas. It is legal to gift firearms to people who are not forbidden to possess them. Gifts of firearms to minors are only allowed with the permission of the parent or guardian. Handguns may not be owned by anyone under 18. It is legal to inherit firearms too.


Did you read the last line of the first paragraph?

Some states require background checks for private sales, usually through a licensed intermediary, but others have few to no regulations on private gun sales.


Some states require background checks on private sales. Other states have little or no regulations on private sales.

And when a person can murder 60 people in less than fifteen minutes from a hundred feet away or more, then we can talk about knife control. But, for now, we NEED gun control. Which is not the same as "ban them all" but the right does not understand that.


Why did the Obama administration's BATF allow the sale of bump stocks in 2010? Those devices allow semiautomatic rifles to perform like machine guns which have been very heavily restricted since 1934? Since 1934 owners and prospective owners of machine guns have been required to pay a $200 fee (equivalent to over $3,000 in today's money), undergo a background check, and submit fingerprints in order to obtain a federal license. In 1986, Congress prohibited the sale of new machine guns to the public, but allowed for the licensing transfer of existing machine guns built before 1986. It now costs around $20,000 to buy a legal machine gun built prior to 1986, and the prospective buyer must still pass the background check.

As far as I am concerned the sale of any device or modification kit that makes a semiautomatic perform like an automatic should be treated the same as selling machine guns. Bump stock equiped semiautomatic rifles aren't really suitable for use by a militia. The operation of the bump mechanism isn't conducive to accurate aiming. They may be effective at hitting a dense crowd of people at a concert or sports stadium, but they aren't very good at hitting a particular target. They also consume ammunition too quickly.
 
WIederling
Posts: 4699
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:06 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Why did the Obama administration's BATF allow the sale of bump stocks in 2010?


You'll have to use Google Translate. the US:EN page is mum on that aspect:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_Stock

Things seem to have gone as expected and usual:
Bump stocks would require active regulation legislation. ( being allowed by default ).
The GOP opposed it. Like so many other things that would at least bring insight into gun misuse
and erect some (small) hurdles.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 1281
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:02 am

WIederling wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Why did the Obama administration's BATF allow the sale of bump stocks in 2010?


You'll have to use Google Translate. the US:EN page is mum on that aspect:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_Stock

Things seem to have gone as expected and usual:
Bump stocks would require active regulation legislation. ( being allowed by default ).
The GOP opposed it. Like so many other things that would at least bring insight into gun misuse
and erect some (small) hurdles.


The GOP had little power to stop any legislation in 2010 if that is what they wanted to do. The Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate in 2010. In fact, the Democrats had a filibuster proof majority. They would have had no difficulty at all legislatively passing a ban on bump stocks if they had wanted to persue that.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:09 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

The people in question have an FFL (Federal Firearms License). If you read the first line of the section where the individual state regulations are listed, it says:



The friends of which I was talking are licenced firearm dealers. They are therefore required to run a background check with every sale unless the purchaser has a carry license.

People who have licenses to carry have already undergone a more stringent background check and have to renew every 5 years. Also anyone with a CL must present the CL anytime a police officer requests to see it. It must be presented along with a a driver's license if pulled over for a driving infraction. They must be kept up to date. If the holder moves, the address must be promptly changed. Lost or stolen cards must be reported promptly.

There is no requirement for registration of firearms in my home state of Texas. It is legal to gift firearms to people who are not forbidden to possess them. Gifts of firearms to minors are only allowed with the permission of the parent or guardian. Handguns may not be owned by anyone under 18. It is legal to inherit firearms too.


Did you read the last line of the first paragraph?

Some states require background checks for private sales, usually through a licensed intermediary, but others have few to no regulations on private gun sales.


Some states require background checks on private sales. Other states have little or no regulations on private sales.

And when a person can murder 60 people in less than fifteen minutes from a hundred feet away or more, then we can talk about knife control. But, for now, we NEED gun control. Which is not the same as "ban them all" but the right does not understand that.


Why did the Obama administration's BATF allow the sale of bump stocks in 2010?


How long did it take ACA to get passed? I am asking because, maybe, this was a trade off so ACA could be passed? Or DACA? What else was going on in 2010 that needed negotiation? Not just ruling by decree and forcing legislation.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 1281
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:49 am

seb146 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Did you read the last line of the first paragraph?



Some states require background checks on private sales. Other states have little or no regulations on private sales.

And when a person can murder 60 people in less than fifteen minutes from a hundred feet away or more, then we can talk about knife control. But, for now, we NEED gun control. Which is not the same as "ban them all" but the right does not understand that.


Why did the Obama administration's BATF allow the sale of bump stocks in 2010?


How long did it take ACA to get passed? I am asking because, maybe, this was a trade off so ACA could be passed? Or DACA? What else was going on in 2010 that needed negotiation? Not just ruling by decree and forcing legislation.


The ACA passed in 2010. Democrats had the votes in the Senate to pass just a about any piece of legislation they wanted. They had the 60 votes needed for cloture on a party line vote.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:05 am

I just can’t imagine what it’d be like being mowed down at a damned concert. It only happens in the US. I don’t know why we can’t own that.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:23 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
The LV mass terror shooter had been buying a number of non-hunting guns over the last year or so. As he bought them 1 at a time, the USA's ATF didn't know he was amassing an arsenal as current rules only mean attention to the ATF if a person buys 3 guns at once from a licensed dealer. To me there should be change in law/regulations if some individual buys 3 or more guns in a set period of time like 3 months, that could cause a hold on any further sales from that person for a period of months. Not only could this possibly curb the creation of arsenals by individuals or small groups but also 'straw buying' where guns are legally purchased for private and unregulated resale - usually to criminals. Of course the NRA and other 2nd Amendment absolutists won't even allow such a small but possibly effective change.



Why? What does buying 3 guns in 3 months signify? I've bought 3 in 3 weeks, probably time to add on to safe space, since my 70 gun safe is mostly full. Should I be a criminal, simply for owning guns?


Why do you have to own so many guns?

I insulted you earlier in the week, unfairly so, which I apologize for. And I get it, 99.999999999999% of gun owners don’t kill people. I’d just like to know why we (Americans) have to go overboard when it comes to guns. You are talking about building a safe room in your house. Are you really fearing that you’ll be attacked? That, I just don’t get. Don’t you have something more productive to do, like being a Delta Diamond Flyer?

I get the overreaction from the “liberals” (bad word on your side), but have you ever been in a position of danger that justifies you buying 3 guns in 3 weeks and having 70 in your house? If you’re a collector, then fine (I have spent a lot of money on my airline schedule collection.) But I doubt you are because you want to build a safe room. To me, that’s the definition of neurotic.
 
WIederling
Posts: 4699
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:02 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The GOP had little power to stop any legislation in 2010 if that is what they wanted to do.


2010 as reference date is moot
as the issue only became known around 2012. ( more like 2013? see first link below )
"active" legislation never gets moving before the child has drowned in the well.
But then it tends to move at irrational speeds with brain removed.

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons-ban-summary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban_of_2013#Defeat_of_the_bill.2C_and_after
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/dianne-feinstein-bump-stocks-senate-gun-control-bill
Murphy is an optimist
 
Misterbrown
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:04 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:55 am

jetero wrote:
Why do you have to own so many guns?

This reminds me about the story of the guy who was asked why he had come to see the psychiatrist.
He told the shrink it was because he had such a fondness for pancakes,
The shrink told him that was nothing to obsess about, after all he liked pancakes too.
The client said, that's great, why don't you come over to my place; I have a whole closet full of them!
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:44 pm

jetero wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
The LV mass terror shooter had been buying a number of non-hunting guns over the last year or so. As he bought them 1 at a time, the USA's ATF didn't know he was amassing an arsenal as current rules only mean attention to the ATF if a person buys 3 guns at once from a licensed dealer. To me there should be change in law/regulations if some individual buys 3 or more guns in a set period of time like 3 months, that could cause a hold on any further sales from that person for a period of months. Not only could this possibly curb the creation of arsenals by individuals or small groups but also 'straw buying' where guns are legally purchased for private and unregulated resale - usually to criminals. Of course the NRA and other 2nd Amendment absolutists won't even allow such a small but possibly effective change.



Why? What does buying 3 guns in 3 months signify? I've bought 3 in 3 weeks, probably time to add on to safe space, since my 70 gun safe is mostly full. Should I be a criminal, simply for owning guns?


Why do you have to own so many guns?

I insulted you earlier in the week, unfairly so, which I apologize for. And I get it, 99.999999999999% of gun owners don’t kill people. I’d just like to know why we (Americans) have to go overboard when it comes to guns. You are talking about building a safe room in your house. Are you really fearing that you’ll be attacked? That, I just don’t get. Don’t you have something more productive to do, like being a Delta Diamond Flyer?

I get the overreaction from the “liberals” (bad word on your side), but have you ever been in a position of danger that justifies you buying 3 guns in 3 weeks and having 70 in your house? If you’re a collector, then fine (I have spent a lot of money on my airline schedule collection.) But I doubt you are because you want to build a safe room. To me, that’s the definition of neurotic.


By building a safe room, I mean like a walk in safe, sort of like a bank vault. Not a safe room in which one locks themselves for an attack. And why do I own so many guns? Because I can. I enjoy collecting them, I enjoy shooting them. I carry daily, when I can, for my personal safety.
From my cold, dead hands
 
windy95
Posts: 2686
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:21 pm

jetero wrote:
I just can’t imagine what it’d be like being mowed down at a damned concert. It only happens in the US. I don’t know why we can’t own that.


Really getting mowed down only happens in the US? You seem to have forgotten Paris in 2015 when three attackers armed with assault weapons arrive at Bataclan concert hall. The gunmen entered the concert hall and open fire as a performance is underway by the US band Eagles of Death Metal with Eighty-nine people being killed.

Or perhaps the recent Manchester concert bombing claiming 20 lives? The nightclub in Istanbul with gunman killing 39? Bali nightclubs in 2002 over 200 killed?

It only happens in America? :o
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:36 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

Why did the Obama administration's BATF allow the sale of bump stocks in 2010?


How long did it take ACA to get passed? I am asking because, maybe, this was a trade off so ACA could be passed? Or DACA? What else was going on in 2010 that needed negotiation? Not just ruling by decree and forcing legislation.


The ACA passed in 2010. Democrats had the votes in the Senate to pass just a about any piece of legislation they wanted. They had the 60 votes needed for cloture on a party line vote.


So, ACA passed in 2010 and ATF under Obama allowed bump stocks in 2010. hmmmmm...... Could this be the four letter word called "negotiation"?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:40 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
I carry daily, when I can, for my personal safety.
Because you're different from then normal people for whom the carrying of a firearm increases the chance of being killed?
What makes you special?
Can your gun shoot other bullets out of the air before they hit you?
Why would a gun keep you safe?

I mean its totally up to you if you want to endanger yourself I guess but I feel for your family who you are putting in harms way. FREEDOM!!!!!!

Fred
Image
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6842
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:52 am

flipdewaf wrote:
Why would a gun keep you safe?


"Emotional support gun", people that are feeling they need one are simply top scared to go outside without, and a gun is cheaper and easier to get than good psychotherapy.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
WIederling
Posts: 4699
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:21 am

tommy1808 wrote:
"Emotional support gun",



Nice tag.
Now they have to push for having their ESG at the ready when traveling by plane :-)
As if the "emotional support $thingy" not gone overboard already.
Murphy is an optimist
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6842
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:52 pm

WIederling wrote:
Now they have to push for having their ESG at the ready when traveling by plane :-).


Well, if there had been a time and place where a good man with a gun may have made a difference, it would have been on those planes on 9/11.

But then again there would have been a lot more hijackings and exit hole riddled wrecks if people could bring their emotional support AR15 on planes. Just like any other place where a gun is at the ready.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 4070
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:59 am

Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 4070
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Preventing Mass Shootings

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:30 am

Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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