Super80Fan wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Another middle aged white Christian man uses a fully automatic weapon (per police reports) to take out how many people but:

A) "this is not the time or place to talk about doing anything about gun control)
B) we can't ever talk about gun control because NRA and Republicans say so

So, here is a truck load of hopes and prayers and an extra truck load for when the next middle aged white Christian man guns down more people because we can't do anything about guns.

Do we know for a fact this man was a Christian? Cut the fake news out, close to 60 people are dead and you aren't doing them any justice by spewing fake news.The only thing we know is that he is an older white male from Nevada.

Just because someone may have been raised decades ago in a Christian environment doesn't mean that person was a practicing Chrisian or motivated by Christianity.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

wingman wrote:

Automatic weapons are banned? I'm listening to that audio and it sure as shit sounds like automatic fire to me. Or maybe that machine gun fire is part of the country song? WTF..

Laws only keep honest people honest....

Plenty of dishonest people in Europe, Australia, Canada and Japan, but far fewer mass shootings. What is is about all of those places that makes them so much less likely to have mass shootings alongside much lower statistics overall?

Simply unreal with +58 dead so far. Was out last night and heard about it just before going to bed. Then it was 2 dead and I thought it was a nutcase taking it out on somebody related. Waking up to the news of +50 dead is just awful.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

wingman wrote:

Automatic weapons are banned? I'm listening to that audio and it sure as shit sounds like automatic fire to me. Or maybe that machine gun fire is part of the country song? WTF..

Laws only keep honest people honest....

That is why you must have an enforcement mechanism.

Also, I think you have to admit that in general laws do work, have the intended impact, and that since honest people do follow them the subset that don't are easier to investigate and address.

Tugg

wingman wrote:

Automatic weapons are banned? I'm listening to that audio and it sure as shit sounds like automatic fire to me. Or maybe that machine gun fire is part of the country song? WTF..

Basically it is swap out of a couple of parts that are available for sale or modifying existing parts on the gun to make it full automatic.

As DiamondFlyer noted if someone wants to not follow the law and make a semi into a full auto, it can by done. No matter what "defeat" mechanism you put in place.

Tugg

casinterest wrote:

Alias1024 wrote:

330west wrote:

If this guy was able to get presumably 450+ hits in ten to fifteen minutes of shooting from what seems like a considerable distance, how likely is it that he had some kind of military training?

I very much doubt that this shooter had over 450 hits. I have little doubt that many of the injuries and probably even some of the fatalities came as everyone rushed for cover. Stampedes can be deadly.

10 minutes of fire is what everyone reports. He unleashed hundreds if not over a thousand rounds possibly. 450 hits is not out of the realm of possibility. However, I imagine some people were injured in the panic. If you listen to the audio, you can hear the unrelenting release of bullets.

Well so far 58 are confirmed dead, and 515+ injured. That's 573+ so far. If you estimate 600 people hit in 10 minutes, that averages to 60 per minute.

Tugger wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

wingman wrote:

Automatic weapons are banned? I'm listening to that audio and it sure as shit sounds like automatic fire to me. Or maybe that machine gun fire is part of the country song? WTF..

Laws only keep honest people honest....

That is why you must have an enforcement mechanism.

Also, I think you have to admit that in general laws do work, have the intended impact, and that since honest people do follow them the subset that don't are easier to investigate and address.

Tugg

Enforcement is a touchy issue where those on the left, right, and Libertarian disagree.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

wingman wrote:

Automatic weapons are banned? I'm listening to that audio and it sure as shit sounds like automatic fire to me. Or maybe that machine gun fire is part of the country song? WTF..

Laws only keep honest people honest....

Yet somehow few criminals are armed where there is strict gun control. Here 3.6% of criminals are armed for a grand total for 9000 crimes with a gun and with 130 dead.
That is just a mildly bad day in the USA, and you got 4 times more people, not 300.

Best regards
Thomas

Stricter gun control will happen when state & private organization feel their revenue slowly move downwards for a longer period of time, showing no end. The politics will just react when it really hurts (not from casualties, but in their pocket). That's the way the wheel turns, and not just in usa.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Alias1024 wrote:

I very much doubt that this shooter had over 450 hits. I have little doubt that many of the injuries and probably even some of the fatalities came as everyone rushed for cover. Stampedes can be deadly.

10 minutes of fire is what everyone reports. He unleashed hundreds if not over a thousand rounds possibly. 450 hits is not out of the realm of possibility. However, I imagine some people were injured in the panic. If you listen to the audio, you can hear the unrelenting release of bullets.

Well so far 58 are confirmed dead, and 515+ injured. That's 573+ so far. If you estimate 600 people hit in 10 minutes, that averages to 60 per minute.

Or one hit every second

Expect the NRA to put out an ad, using this event to support their cause for looser/no restrictions on weapons.

(aka. "If they only had a gun...")

wingman wrote:

Automatic weapons are banned? I'm listening to that audio and it sure as shit sounds like automatic fire to me. Or maybe that machine gun fire is part of the country song? WTF..

You can get what's called a slide fire kit which will turn your semi auto AR15 or AK into a full auto weapon, it's a legal loophole, amazing that it hasn't been closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo4kFzECXGs

einsteinboricua wrote:

Expect the NRA to put out an ad, using this event to support their cause for looser/no restrictions on weapons.

(aka. "If they only had a gun...")

Even with looser regulation how on earth would people mostly armed with handguns return accurate fire on a shooter in a building 32 floors up and 1700ft away. A handgun wouldn't even hit the building let alone take out the offender. It would have caused more panic and additional fatalities.

330west wrote:

If this guy was able to get presumably 450+ hits in ten to fifteen minutes of shooting from what seems like a considerable distance, how likely is it that he had some kind of military training?

As he is aged 64, than means he was born in 1953, turned 18 in '71, pretty good chance he had some sort of training (unless he had bone spurs)

BravoOne wrote:

You have to wonder how this creep got all those firearms and ammo to his room without drawing some attention to his behavior. The hotels in LAS are usually crawling with numerous forms of security. I can smell the lawsuits already.

He had been there for 3 days, wouldn't be that hard to move them 1 at a time up to his room from his car. Walk through the place with a wheel aboard suitcase, nobody is going to give you a second look. But yes, MGM is going to take a huge hit on this.

Super80Fan wrote:

Do we know for a fact this man was a Christian? Cut the fake news out, close to 60 people are dead and you aren't doing them any justice by spewing fake news.The only thing we know is that he is an older white male from Nevada.

The man lived in Mesquite, if he wasn't some form of good Christian, they would have run him out of town....

Lovely: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... icans.html

Hope CBS fires this wretched woman.

From The Daily Mail:

Another witness said he was in the room next to the gunman when he opened fire.

'I was in room 135 and I heard over the police scanner that the shooting came from room 137,' said the man, who asked not to be named.

'It was non-stop, I would say well over 100 rounds. We hit the floor and took cover. I called the front desk and she was remarkably calm and said she was aware of the situation and told us to stay in our room.

'After around 10-15 minutes it just kind of stopped. You could smell the gun powder. Right before we got out I heard an explosion, maybe a flashbang, but windows were blown out.

'The cops came on to the floor and they were clearing rooms room by room and six or seven cops came into our room and we were evacuated.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... esort.html

Shocking and terrible and far too familiar.

Kiwirob wrote:

Even with looser regulation how on earth would people mostly armed with handguns return accurate fire on a shooter in a building 32 floors up and 1700ft away. A handgun wouldn't even hit the building let alone take out the offender. It would have caused more panic and additional fatalities.

Logic and reasoning are not exactly the NRA's strongest attributes. If they were, politicians wouldn't fear being on their naughty list.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Laws only keep honest people honest....

Ah, the same old tired mantra.

Where were all the good guys with their guns to stop this? More guns would have stopped this!

jetwet1 wrote:

330west wrote:

If this guy was able to get presumably 450+ hits in ten to fifteen minutes of shooting from what seems like a considerable distance, how likely is it that he had some kind of military training?

As he is aged 64, than means he was born in 1953, turned 18 in '71, pretty good chance he had some sort of training (unless he had bone spurs)

His brother has now said he had no military training.

I wish countries (including mine) would start issuing travel warnings to their citizens regarding travel to the US. The fact people willingly travel there to holiday is beyond me.

First of all my condolences for the families of the victims.

On the other hand what can I say!? ... I have repeatedly gave my opinion after these coward US mass shootings, that strict gun control is part of the solution, together with a reform of the mental health system in the US.

But like others have already said, if the killing of children's in schools doesn't change anything, I don't believe this horrible event will push any legislative change. I am just curious to hear the excuses they will come up, to upkeep the nation's obsession with guns. Where was the good guy with a gun to stop this a$$hole, before the police did it after 15 minutes?

wstakl wrote:

I wish countries (including mine) would start issuing travel warnings to their citizens regarding travel to the US. The fact people willingly travel there to holiday is beyond me.

The vast majority of trips to the USA end without incident. Just like the vast majority of people living in the USA will never be the victim of anything even remotely close to this situation. Hell, the vast majority of trips to EVERY country (expect maybe a few) will end without incident, doesn't matter if it's USA or UK or Burundi or Laos or Papua New Guinea.

USA has a gun violence issue, and the world knows it. What does issuing a travel warning do?

qf789 wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

10 minutes of fire is what everyone reports. He unleashed hundreds if not over a thousand rounds possibly. 450 hits is not out of the realm of possibility. However, I imagine some people were injured in the panic. If you listen to the audio, you can hear the unrelenting release of bullets.

Well so far 58 are confirmed dead, and 515+ injured. That's 573+ so far. If you estimate 600 people hit in 10 minutes, that averages to 60 per minute.

Or one hit every second

Nah, you're making a mistake - you're assuming that everyone injured was injured by gunfire. I would bet money, Las Vegas style, that a majority were hurt in the ensuing stampede.

jetwet1 wrote:

jetwet1 wrote:

330west wrote:

If this guy was able to get presumably 450+ hits in ten to fifteen minutes of shooting from what seems like a considerable distance, how likely is it that he had some kind of military training?

As he is aged 64, than means he was born in 1953, turned 18 in '71, pretty good chance he had some sort of training (unless he had bone spurs)

His brother has now said he had no military training.

As a member of the same age group, if my memory is correct the draft was pretty much dead by 1971. I don't know anyone that was in the class of 71-72 that got drafted, several people volunteered but that's about it..

I'm at a loss for words, the frustration of knowing that despite this nothing could change. It's absolutely appalling that the United States hasn't done something to restrict firearm accessibility. I'm not going to get into the whole 2nd amendment argument, but anybody with a shred of common sense agrees that 99% of firearm types should not be accessible to the public.

This is of course tragic, but let it be a sober reminder that freedom isn't free.

We should all take a moment to honor those who bravely sacrificed their lives so that we could have an expansive interpretation of the Second Amendment.



Signed,

The NRA

910A wrote:

jetwet1 wrote:

jetwet1 wrote:

As he is aged 64, than means he was born in 1953, turned 18 in '71, pretty good chance he had some sort of training (unless he had bone spurs)

His brother has now said he had no military training.

As a member of the same age group, if my memory is correct the draft was pretty much dead by 1971. I don't know anyone that was in the class of 71-72 that got drafted, several people volunteered but that's about it..

Thanks for setting me straight (not being sarcastic), I was born in '71, for whatever reason I thought that draft was still going then.

Allegiant is offering free flights into Vegas for family members of those shot, as much as we like to bash Allegiant on here, bravo to them for stepping up so quickly for there home town.

All the hotels are working to free up hotel rooms for family members who need to come into town.

There has been an amazing response to the call for blood donations, wait times are over 5 hours, local restaurants are feeding and and watering those waiting in line, the people working at the scene and of course those displaced by last nights events.

Still not much known about the shooter other than he was an accountant with a gambling habit, and seemed to be an introvert.

OA412 wrote:

Still not much known about the shooter other than he was an accountant with a gambling habit, and seemed to be an introvert.

As soon as his family described him as being quiet, I wondered if it's possible he lost big and that's how/why he cracked.

Mir wrote:

This is of course tragic, but let it be a sober reminder that freedom isn't free.

We should all take a moment to honor those who bravely sacrificed their lives so that we could have an expansive interpretation of the Second Amendment.



Signed,

The NRA

I always suspected Wayne Lapierre has an a.net account

OA412 wrote:

Still not much known about the shooter other than he was an accountant with a gambling habit, and seemed to be an introvert.

We know his name and age, his brother has already been interviewed, we know where he lived and what his job was, i would say we know quite a bit. What we don’t know is his motive.

einsteinboricua wrote:

OA412 wrote:

Still not much known about the shooter other than he was an accountant with a gambling habit, and seemed to be an introvert.

As soon as his family described him as being quiet, I wondered if it's possible he lost big and that's how/why he cracked.

Ugh yeah you never know.

sw733 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Well so far 58 are confirmed dead, and 515+ injured. That's 573+ so far. If you estimate 600 people hit in 10 minutes, that averages to 60 per minute.

Or one hit every second

Nah, you're making a mistake - you're assuming that everyone injured was injured by gunfire. I would bet money, Las Vegas style, that a majority were hurt in the ensuing stampede.

Time will tell,
but Remember, a Semi-Automatic is the rate at which you can pull the trigger finger.

A Semi -Automatic can reasonably be fired at well over 60 rounds per second assuming you have a large enough magazine.
Mods he could have bought legally could have bumped the rate well over that amount.

scbriml wrote:

Where were all the good guys with their guns to stop this? More guns would have stopped this!

They were sitting ducks at a concert where firearms were prohibited and security was in place to ensure none were onsite.

Kind of hard to return fire to a sniper at an elevated perch when all you can do is point your finger and say "Pew! Pew! Pew!" since you're unarmed...

Is this really ISIS? I think its bogus and they just want the rep, like with MS804. But if it is then the US is probably getting several more attacks soon. I hope not. It's horrible living your life and just suddenly an attack by a group known to strike many times in a few months in one country. Everywhere in Europe there's just this horror of ''will my flight be bombed?'' ''will my airport get bombed?'' ''will the nightclub i went out to get shot at by 5 lunatics?'' etc. Its awful. I just wish it could stop. I'd much rather the US being incompetent at gun laws rather than ISIS.

OA940 wrote:

Is this really ISIS? I think its bogus and they just want the rep, like with MS804.

ISIS would claim responsibility for the recent hurricanes if they felt the U.S. media would take the claim seriously...

casinterest wrote:

sw733 wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Or one hit every second

Nah, you're making a mistake - you're assuming that everyone injured was injured by gunfire. I would bet money, Las Vegas style, that a majority were hurt in the ensuing stampede.

Time will tell,
but Remember, a Semi-Automatic is the rate at which you can pull the trigger finger.

A Semi -Automatic can reasonably be fired at well over 60 rounds per second assuming you have a large enough magazine.
Mods he could have bought legally could have bumped the rate well over that amount.

60 rounds per second? From a semi-auto? That's 3600 rounds per minute, which is on par with a mini-gun. You have absolutely no idea what the heck you're talking about...

EA CO AS wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Where were all the good guys with their guns to stop this? More guns would have stopped this!

They were sitting ducks at a concert where firearms were prohibited and security was in place to ensure none were onsite.

Kind of hard to return fire to a sniper at an elevated perch when all you can do is point your finger and say "Pew! Pew! Pew!" since you're unarmed...

As I said before if people were armed it would have been with a handgun, no way could they have even hit the hotel from 1700 feet let along 32 floors up. With guns they were dead anyway.

OA940 wrote:

Everywhere in Europe there's just this horror of ''will my flight be bombed?'' ''will my airport get bombed?'' ''will the nightclub i went out to get shot at by 5 lunatics?'' etc. Its awful. I just wish it could stop. I'd much rather the US being incompetent at gun laws rather than ISIS.

As a person who flies a lot in Europe none of the above has ever entered my thoughts. I’m far more concerned about weather delays than terrorists.

EA CO AS wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Is this really ISIS? I think its bogus and they just want the rep, like with MS804.

ISIS would claim responsibility for the recent hurricanes if they felt the U.S. media would take the claim seriously...

Agreed. I really doubt IS is behind this.

OA940 wrote:

Everywhere in Europe there's just this horror of ''will my flight be bombed?'' ''will my airport get bombed?'' ''will the nightclub i went out to get shot at by 5 lunatics?'' etc. Its awful.

That is your wishful thinking, nothing else, my dear.

Then we never saw the "duck and cover, build your bomb shelter, quick!" hysterics either.
( Though, at the time Europe would have been the playground of the "idiots with bombs"
and not the US had the Cold War ever turned hot.)

I'm sick over this. I used to be a frequent LAS visitor, and my thoughts and prayers are with those that have been affected.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Another middle aged white Christian man uses a fully automatic weapon (per police reports) to take out how many people but:

A) "this is not the time or place to talk about doing anything about gun control)
B) we can't ever talk about gun control because NRA and Republicans say so

So, here is a truck load of hopes and prayers and an extra truck load for when the next middle aged white Christian man guns down more people because we can't do anything about guns.

Do we know for a fact this man was a Christian? Cut the fake news out, close to 60 people are dead and you aren't doing them any justice by spewing fake news.The only thing we know is that he is an older white male from Nevada.

Just because someone may have been raised decades ago in a Christian environment doesn't mean that person was a practicing Chrisian or motivated by Christianity.

Good. Now, replace the word "Christian" with "Islam" and we can start having an honest conversation. The terrorists who claim to be Muslim also engaged in drinking alcohol (forbidden by Islam) and premarital sex (forbidden by Islam) and other things forbidden by Islam. Yet, they claim to be Muslim Just like Christians want to see people die but claim to be Christian.

Just a quick summation:

We can't talk about gun control after Columbine.
We can't talk about gun control after Sandy Hook.
We can't talk about gun control after Aurora.
We can't talk about gun control after Orlando.
We can't talk about gun control after San Burnardino.
We can't talk about gun control after Charleston.
We can't talk about gun control after Virginia Tech.
We can't talk about gun control before elections.
We can't talk about gun control after elections.
We can't talk about gun control during elections.

When can we talk about it?

seb146 wrote:

Just a quick summation:

We can't talk about gun control after Columbine.
We can't talk about gun control after Sandy Hook.
We can't talk about gun control after Aurora.
We can't talk about gun control after Orlando.
We can't talk about gun control after San Burnardino.
We can't talk about gun control after Charleston.
We can't talk about gun control after Virginia Tech.
We can't talk about gun control before elections.
We can't talk about gun control after elections.
We can't talk about gun control during elections.

When can we talk about it?

You can talk about it all you want. We're talking about it now. We should be talking about it every day, since most gun violence doesn't manifest itself like Las Vegas or Orlando but on any street corner 2-3 victims at a time.

But the thing is, we're OK will a few dozen people dying every now and then if it means we can buy guns from Wal-Mart. I'm convinced a sizeable portion of the country is satisfied with this approach and that's why things won't change.

It's not even a political issue. Hollywood liberals, the NRA, our government...they've all pushed the narrative that gun ownership and violence is Americana. You can't unring the bell.You just send thoughts and prayers.

EA CO AS wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Where were all the good guys with their guns to stop this? More guns would have stopped this!

They were sitting ducks at a concert where firearms were prohibited and security was in place to ensure none were onsite.

Kind of hard to return fire to a sniper at an elevated perch when all you can do is point your finger and say "Pew! Pew! Pew!" since you're unarmed...

Come on.

As a gun owner, you should know better.

I've just spoken to my brother, a Texas (homicide) detective, and according to him, it took the Las Vegas police 15 minutes from the first shot to pinpoint the shooter's location. Throw in the darkness, high rate of fire, long range, the panic with the accompanying noise and adrenaline, conflicting witness accounts and it would be nigh on impossible to get a shot on target. As was the case with the Dallas police shootings, initial reports suggested there were multiple shooters, both within the crowd and in the hotel complex. What's more, I'm hearing a lot of the casualties were inside the hotel itself. So you have an active shooter(s) who is switching positions and who has more firepower than most Swat departments. You have to be some sort of Lee Harvey Oswald to pull that shot off. Lastly, studies show that under such stressful conditions, over 3/4 of police gunshots miss their mark. That's for the US where police are tested biannually on their duty firearm(s) handling. I can't imagine what the marksmanship standards are for the general public for whom you're advocating handgun/rifle carry.

Chaostheory wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Where were all the good guys with their guns to stop this? More guns would have stopped this!

They were sitting ducks at a concert where firearms were prohibited and security was in place to ensure none were onsite.

Kind of hard to return fire to a sniper at an elevated perch when all you can do is point your finger and say "Pew! Pew! Pew!" since you're unarmed...

Come on.

As a gun owner, you should know better.

I've just spoken to my brother, a Texas (homicide) detective, and according to him, it took the Las Vegas police 15 minutes from the first shot to pinpoint the shooter's location. Throw in the darkness, high rate of fire, long range, the panic with the accompanying noise and adrenaline, conflicting witness accounts and it would be nigh on impossible to get a shot on target. As was the case with the Dallas police shootings, initial reports suggested there were multiple shooters, both within the crowd and in the hotel complex. What's more, I'm hearing a lot of the casualties were inside the hotel itself. So you have an active shooter(s) who is switching positions and who has more firepower than most Swat departments. You have to be some sort of Lee Harvey Oswald to pull that shot off. Lastly, studies show that under such stressful conditions, over 3/4 of police gunshots miss their mark. That's for the US where police are tested biannually on their duty firearm(s) handling. I can't imagine what the marksmanship standards are for the general public for whom you're advocating handgun/rifle carry.

I'd think you'd have realized from my post that my snarky reply was to the idiocy of Scribml with his "Oh where for art thou, good guy with a gun?" bullshit. Clearly, even if those people in the crowd were armed it would have been impossible (and frankly, irresponsible) to immediately pinpoint the shooter's location, then try and fire back at this shooter once he'd been located, since you have a much better chance of hitting innocent hotel guests in their rooms than getting him.

seb146 wrote:

Just a quick summation:

We can't talk about gun control after Columbine.
We can't talk about gun control after Sandy Hook.
We can't talk about gun control after Aurora.
We can't talk about gun control after Orlando.
We can't talk about gun control after San Burnardino.
We can't talk about gun control after Charleston.
We can't talk about gun control after Virginia Tech.
We can't talk about gun control before elections.
We can't talk about gun control after elections.
We can't talk about gun control during elections.

When can we talk about it?

You can talk about it all you want. Fact is taking guns away from law abiding citizens won't help (Chicago) We are country with an Amendment that lets us have guns. This will never change. Banning automatic weapons won't stop mass shootings because then you will want to ban semi autos etc. The USA will always have firearms. Can we stop with the dog whistles?