stratosphere
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Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:41 pm

Well even though I think Trump was ahead of the curve in response to Houston and Florida I do believe he is behind the curve in response to PR and I totally disagree with him not at least suspending the Jones Act like he did for Houston until they get on top of this disaster. But I have to laugh at CNN they keep tapping this Lt Gen Russel Honere' who has done nothing but criticize not only the Puerto Rico response but the other hurricane disasters as well..Hey General YOU were the commander of the military response to Hurricane Katrina one of the biggest epic fails in history you need to shut your face. Love these Monday morning quarterbacks thinking they can do better. Say what you want but no President that I know of has had 3 back to back major hurricane disasters with a few weeks.
 
jetero
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:49 pm

Well I agree with you 100% Stratosphere. :bigthumbsup:
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:10 am

At least you see that he's not responding as he should. Why was the USNS Comfort still docked at Virginia? A coworker (not a Trump supporter but former Navy) attempted to justify it by saying that they had to think about the safety of the crew first. I said it's pure nonsense. Are you telling me the USNS Comfort could not have been deployed early and have it wait at a port elsewhere or even go around the storm?

But let's say that it was too dangerous to steam towards the island...at a time of need, do you really have to tweet about the debt (part of which HE's responsible for)? So in other words, "we'll help, but remember you'll still be squeezed to pay Wall Street".
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
nwadeicer
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:49 am

Image
I miss the Red Tail
 
jetero
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:15 am

nwadeicer wrote:
Image


As most people know I can't stand Trump.

But I don't think you can hold someone who held a management contract responsible for a debt default.

Although I have to counterbalance that with my thinking that's a great thing to make viral in this situation. Repubs never wasted an opportunity. Time to play at their game.
 
jetero
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:19 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
At least you see that he's not responding as he should. Why was the USNS Comfort still docked at Virginia? A coworker (not a Trump supporter but former Navy) attempted to justify it by saying that they had to think about the safety of the crew first. I said it's pure nonsense. Are you telling me the USNS Comfort could not have been deployed early and have it wait at a port elsewhere or even go around the storm?

But let's say that it was too dangerous to steam towards the island...at a time of need, do you really have to tweet about the debt (part of which HE's responsible for)? So in other words, "we'll help, but remember you'll still be squeezed to pay Wall Street".


With your screen name you must be Puerto Rican. I hope if you have family there they're doing well. (Although from what little I've heard, it sounds way rough for everyone.)

Which raises a question, why don't we have a thread on PR and Maria, without Trump in subject line?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:30 pm

jetero wrote:
With your screen name you must be Puerto Rican. I hope if you have family there they're doing well. (Although from what little I've heard, it sounds way rough for everyone.)

My family is fine. Their biggest concern right now is being able to get gas for their power generator. Gas lines are long. My parents' house pretty much survived almost intact. Carpets inside got soaked (as in that they had to pull them off because there was still water underneath them), and the garage door collapsed. Other than that, no big damages.

jetero wrote:
Which raises a question, why don't we have a thread on PR and Maria, without Trump in subject line?
Politics will no doubt rear its ugly head. Someone will point out that the island is indebted (and somehow that's why the island is not recovering). Others will point out the slow and botched response. If the buck stops with the president, there's only one person to point the finger at. And in the end, the island's political status will also come into play: a territory, not a state, so does it merit the same response level as a state? The answer is yes, but Congress and the president might differ.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:42 pm

A week after Maria hit, Trump finally grants PR a waiver from the Jones Act.

Source
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jetero
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
jetero wrote:
With your screen name you must be Puerto Rican. I hope if you have family there they're doing well. (Although from what little I've heard, it sounds way rough for everyone.)

My family is fine. Their biggest concern right now is being able to get gas for their power generator. Gas lines are long. My parents' house pretty much survived almost intact. Carpets inside got soaked (as in that they had to pull them off because there was still water underneath them), and the garage door collapsed. Other than that, no big damages.

Glad to hear that.
 
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:13 pm

Trump deserves to get his ass dragged over the coals for his non-response to Maria. Granted three major hurricane's hitting US territory in a period of little more than a month is pretty unprecedented but it isn't like a hurricane comes without warning. There certainly had to be folks within FEMA, DOD, DHS, etc that were trying to brief the White House on the situation. And perhaps they made recommendations about pre-positioning resources so that given a worst case scenario relief efforts could be underway once it was safe to do so.

The fact that the USNS Comfort wasn't ready to go, it takes like 3-5 days to get it ready to deploy and maybe some amphib assault vessels with their large compliment of landing craft and helicopters wasn't made ready to help support relief efforts is pretty damn appalling. When Trump finally made any mention of Puerto Rico he takes the opportunity to shit on them. So yeah no excuses and the response is horrible.
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Ken777
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:18 pm

stratosphere wrote:
But I have to laugh at CNN they keep tapping this Lt Gen Russel Honere' who has done nothing but criticize not only the Puerto Rico response but the other hurricane disasters as well..Hey General YOU were the commander of the military response to Hurricane Katrina one of the biggest epic fails in history you need to shut your face.


Actually Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré is considered to have an outstanding reputation, especially when it comes to Katrina. You need to remember that New Orleans had already failed and was massively flooded by the time the General arrived. His job was to help people get out and the more troops he received the better a job he could do.

I saw a good part of the General's comments on CNN today and consider it a pretty good list of To Do items this country needs to get done now. While I was listening I had to wonder Where The Hell Is Trump. Busy planning I next trip to a golf course? Working with advisors to work up the next NFL related tweet?

Gen. Honoré had 20,000 troops for Katrina and PR is a much bigger disaster. There was a comment about 50,000 troops needed and that sounds realistic to me.

Troops are needed to clear the airfields so supply flights can get in. Marines are pretty good at that and they should have been sent last week.

The USNS Comfort has finally sailed, days late. That ship should be able to be prepared for sailing within a 24 hour window and out should have been 95% loaded before the hurricane even hit, with only final med deliveries and fresh food being needed. I was in the Navy when Peru captured some US fishing boats in '69. The US gave Peru until 3 PM to release those boats. My ship (the USS Long Beach) was ready to sail at 3PM if needed without days of preparation.. It actually took Hillary Clinton publicly reminding Deadbeat Don that the ship is important.

Gen. Honoré was also correct in other comments. A carrier off the coast can deliver excellent ATC operations until land based systems are operational. There are Army Commands who can deliver needed help in distributing food & water, in clearing roads and re-establishing electricity. PR also needs trucks that can move the 10,000 or so containers on the war and the military can handle that better than eny option.

One of the most important benefits of Gen. Honoré in New Orleans is that he was a visible demonstration that the US was there to help and the General was impressive in giving orders to get things done. In the CNN interview he clearly demonstrated that he still knew what needs to be done and who should be doing it, He understands the situation and Trump is totally in the dark and his "leadership" is limited to going after the NFL and possibly starting a war in Korea.
 
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:55 am

Ken777 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
But I have to laugh at CNN they keep tapping this Lt Gen Russel Honere' who has done nothing but criticize not only the Puerto Rico response but the other hurricane disasters as well..Hey General YOU were the commander of the military response to Hurricane Katrina one of the biggest epic fails in history you need to shut your face.


Actually Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré is considered to have an outstanding reputation, especially when it comes to Katrina. You need to remember that New Orleans had already failed and was massively flooded by the time the General arrived. His job was to help people get out and the more troops he received the better a job he could do.

I saw a good part of the General's comments on CNN today and consider it a pretty good list of To Do items this country needs to get done now. While I was listening I had to wonder Where The Hell Is Trump. Busy planning I next trip to a golf course? Working with advisors to work up the next NFL related tweet?

Gen. Honoré had 20,000 troops for Katrina and PR is a much bigger disaster. There was a comment about 50,000 troops needed and that sounds realistic to me.

Troops are needed to clear the airfields so supply flights can get in. Marines are pretty good at that and they should have been sent last week.

The USNS Comfort has finally sailed, days late. That ship should be able to be prepared for sailing within a 24 hour window and out should have been 95% loaded before the hurricane even hit, with only final med deliveries and fresh food being needed. I was in the Navy when Peru captured some US fishing boats in '69. The US gave Peru until 3 PM to release those boats. My ship (the USS Long Beach) was ready to sail at 3PM if needed without days of preparation.. It actually took Hillary Clinton publicly reminding Deadbeat Don that the ship is important.

Gen. Honoré was also correct in other comments. A carrier off the coast can deliver excellent ATC operations until land based systems are operational. There are Army Commands who can deliver needed help in distributing food & water, in clearing roads and re-establishing electricity. PR also needs trucks that can move the 10,000 or so containers on the war and the military can handle that better than eny option.

One of the most important benefits of Gen. Honoré in New Orleans is that he was a visible demonstration that the US was there to help and the General was impressive in giving orders to get things done. In the CNN interview he clearly demonstrated that he still knew what needs to be done and who should be doing it, He understands the situation and Trump is totally in the dark and his "leadership" is limited to going after the NFL and possibly starting a war in Korea.


It does seem like Trump is reactionary on PR rather then pro active like he was with Houston and Florida. However, Puerto Rico is an island and crates a more logistical problem than Florida and Houston did and I do not know how are resources are spread out among the 3 disasters. Like I said we have 3 disasters virtually within weeks of each other I guess that's why this General is getting on my nerves Bush had his Katrina and failed and Obama had his Sandy and there are people who criticized his performance on that one. Trump has 3 disasters going on I have friends of mine that are lineman and are already worked to a frazzle. One of them has been working 17 hour days first in Houston then was moved to Florida and they are now talking about sending them to Puerto Rico and my friend is a lineman in Mississippi normally. So the General can sit and arm chair quarterback this thing but he was working one disaster they are working 3 with one of them being an island. Just hope they can get the help they need soon.
 
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par13del
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:05 pm

So a bigger question, why were the US flagged vessels not all lined up to service PR after the hurricane, why is it necessary for POTUS to suspend the Jones Act,
did the US Congress pass that law to protect US interest and no one said that protecting US interest would also hurt US interest?
The Jones Act should either be repealed or have a clause inserted which removes its restrictions a set number of days prior and after any disaster, some things should be automatic when protecting and serving the lives of one's citizens. I use POTUS because the last two had to suspend the Jones Act.
A number of countries are closer to PR than mainland US and none of them could ship supplies to PR because of the Act, it is unfortunate that from 1920 to current, politicians cannot get such a obvious flaw corrected in short order, now we have to wonder if the swamp could ever be drained by those living in it, too many rules and regulations which relate to a by gone era are hurting progress today.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:58 pm

par13del wrote:
now we have to wonder if the swamp could ever be drained by those living in it, too many rules and regulations which relate to a by gone era are hurting progress today.

When Trump the Swamp Conquistador said that he didn't want to waive it because A lot of people that work in the shipping industry that don't want the Jones Act lifted, you know that he either is not a Conquistador with the powers he proclaimed to have and/or he's adapted to the swamp itself and only wants to make it suitable to his liking (keep it a swamp, but make it a pretty one).
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cjg225
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:45 pm

par13del wrote:
So a bigger question, why were the US flagged vessels not all lined up to service PR after the hurricane, why is it necessary for POTUS to suspend the Jones Act,
did the US Congress pass that law to protect US interest and no one said that protecting US interest would also hurt US interest?
The Jones Act should either be repealed or have a clause inserted which removes its restrictions a set number of days prior and after any disaster, some things should be automatic when protecting and serving the lives of one's citizens. I use POTUS because the last two had to suspend the Jones Act.
A number of countries are closer to PR than mainland US and none of them could ship supplies to PR because of the Act, it is unfortunate that from 1920 to current, politicians cannot get such a obvious flaw corrected in short order, now we have to wonder if the swamp could ever be drained by those living in it, too many rules and regulations which relate to a by gone era are hurting progress today.

What are non-Jones Act vessels going to do that Jones Act vessels haven't already done? More vessels into PR right now will make the congestion at PRSJU worse; it won't get relief supplies to Puerto Ricans any faster.

You can make the argument that saving PR and relief organizations some money by allowing them to use non-Jones Act vessels is worthwhile, but from a purely operational point of view, suspending the Jones Act will make basically no difference right now.
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727LOVER
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Don't forget the US Virgin Idlands !
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par13del
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:39 pm

cjg225 wrote:
What are non-Jones Act vessels going to do that Jones Act vessels haven't already done? More vessels into PR right now will make the congestion at PRSJU worse; it won't get relief supplies to Puerto Ricans any faster.

You can make the argument that saving PR and relief organizations some money by allowing them to use non-Jones Act vessels is worthwhile, but from a purely operational point of view, suspending the Jones Act will make basically no difference right now.

Well, non-Jones Act vessels are normally the ships bringing goods into the US from Europe etc, those cannot dock in PR to offload.
Now a week or so after the event it may not be relevant, hence my question why those ships were not lined up before, folks seem to think that the US Navy Hospital ship should have already been on the way, I agree, once it was known that a hit was coming they should have already left port, the same applies to the Jones Act ships which would and are required to bring the bulk supplies.
Two type carriers were deployed to Florida, does the Navy have any other's operational for PR, helicopter's are the biggest need in PR today with so many roads being blocked / damaged.
 
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par13del
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:44 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
When Trump the Swamp Conquistador said that he didn't want to waive it because A lot of people that work in the shipping industry that don't want the Jones Act lifted, you know that he either is not a Conquistador with the powers he proclaimed to have and/or he's adapted to the swamp itself and only wants to make it suitable to his liking (keep it a swamp, but make it a pretty one).

Well I used POTUS because it is / was not a Trump thing, however, since he was elected without being beholding to any media house every little thing will be a big deal, his love of media or lack thereof is well known.
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cjg225
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:41 pm

par13del wrote:
Well, non-Jones Act vessels are normally the ships bringing goods into the US from Europe etc, those cannot dock in PR to offload.
Now a week or so after the event it may not be relevant, hence my question why those ships were not lined up before, folks seem to think that the US Navy Hospital ship should have already been on the way, I agree, once it was known that a hit was coming they should have already left port, the same applies to the Jones Act ships which would and are required to bring the bulk supplies.
Two type carriers were deployed to Florida, does the Navy have any other's operational for PR, helicopter's are the biggest need in PR today with so many roads being blocked / damaged.

Suspension of Jones Act requirements is generally because Jones Act vessels cannot fulfill the need. There was never that issue here. The issue has been, since last week, that PRSJU is terribly congested and running with a skeleton crew of people and equipment. Crowley, TOTE, Trailer Bridge, and all the other lesser carriers in the PR-US Mainland trade have no issues meeting the demand for short sea transportation to PR... but PRSJU can't handle but a small fraction of the volume right now.

Whether more military vessels with helicopter capability should be there is a totally different discussion, as is the one about the USNS Comfort.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:23 am

The nightly moan and groan of the Mayor of San Juan directed directly at President Trump is just getting old....

There is something called a chain of Command. That Mayor should be contacting and complaining to the Gov. of Puerto Rico, and then he can relay concerns to other commanders of Govt., like the FEMA commander, etc.

But this Mayor, who must be a Liberal in the mold of La. Senator Mary Landrieu, just thinks she can use the media at her disposal, to rip at the President, and believe me, the MSM is happy to oblige her!!!

The Command and Control set up is there, so that 15, 20, 30 different "mayors" are not tieing up the communication lines of the Commander In Chief all with their personal concerns and gripes.

But, I'm positive this mayor fully thinks she is entitled to go over the head of the Gov. of Puerto Rico, and has "a personal right" to a direct line with the President !

What a CF !! No wonder things can't get done !!

That said, what would only satisfy her is 100,000 troops deployed.

Well, it takes a little time to properly and orderly mount such an effort... weeks not "days".

Sorry for the horrible devastation to the 3rd world territory of Puerto Rico. :indifferent:

Sh*t Happens. :(
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:50 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The nightly moan and groan of the Mayor of San Juan directed directly at President Trump is just getting old....

Considering that it's San Juan who is hosting the command center for FEMA, my guess is that she has a first hand view of what's going on. There is really something to be said when FEMA dispatches people who don't speak Spanish to an island where not everyone is proficient in English, and instead of being of help, tells people "we ran out of supplies. Call us next week and go to our website to see where you can look for other aid". There is something to be said when FEMA asks the mayors of all the municipalities to report to San Juan to give an update of what they need (some towns are disconnected: land and communications...why would a mayor waste fuel to drive to San Juan instead of helping his residents with recovery efforts?)

DIRECTFLT wrote:
But this Mayor, who must be a Liberal in the mold of La. Senator Mary Landrieu
Right...a liberal mayor in the mold of a Southern Democrat...sure.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Well, it takes a little time to properly and orderly mount such an effort... weeks not "days".
Interesting that for Florida and Houston, such an effort was ready as soon as the hurricanes were out of the vicinity. Imagine the outrage if Houston and Tampa had been left in the dark for a week BEFORE the federal government decided to deploy resources.

Imagine the outrage in Louisiana (during Katrina) if Bush had been on TV to talk about how well the recovery efforts are going, while the governor and mayors begged for FEMA to begin deploying assistance.

I will concede that she may be getting a bit dramatic: earlier today she spoke about how this would be akin to genocide if the government didn't do anything. That's a bit over the top but I'm willing to cut her some slack for the frustration that everyone is going through.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:27 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The nightly moan and groan of the Mayor of San Juan directed directly at President Trump is just getting old....

Considering that it's San Juan who is hosting the command center for FEMA, my guess is that she has a first hand view of what's going on.


She may not have a first hand view of what's going on in the remote and hard to reach areas of Western PR. I don't know if she's taking time to go up in helicopter rides to the Western/mountainous part of the island. I think maybe the Gov. of PR has been taken on some of those helicopter rides covering the island. The Gov. probably knows more about what's going on island-wide, and that's what this Federal effort is about.

But, of course, the mayor's first concern understandably is her city.

But, in reality, the American citizens in Western PR, are no less important as the American citizens in San Juan. And so, this a Federal Govt. response for the island of PR. And, the Federal Govt. gets to decide priorities, with everyone obviously wanting to be first in line. So, no matter how you prioritize, someone is going to be pissed and angry that there stuff hasn't been fixed yet.
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WIederling
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:29 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Sh*t Happens. :(


Some people really seem to need their homes washed down the river for a change
which may or may not make them reconsider their moral position.
Hell remains as a last resort of getting their attention.
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ltbewr
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:16 pm

If Hillary Clinton had won and President instead of Trump, would she have been able to do better as to TX, FL, PR and USVI with these massive disasters? At least she wouldn't be going out golfing almost every weekend (Trump will be in NJ at his NJ golf course and a the President's Cup match on Sunday in Jersey City NJ). No sending distracting tweets about anthem protests in the NFL. She likely would had more staff in place in the agencies and knew who to contact to carry out the necessary missions in a more timely matter. For sure she would know the political needs to act more quickly and a larger scale of rescue and recovery.

Still no matter who is the President, the extreme and extensive damage done in PR and USVI destroying so many buildings, roads, bridges, air and sea ports, electricity, communications, water and sewerage infrastructure, their distance from the mainland, the very high rates of poverty and broke government especially in PR, and having to deal with TX and Fl from 2 other hurricanes would have been a challenge to deal with.
 
330west
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:44 pm

ltbewr wrote:
If Hillary Clinton had won and President instead of Trump, would she have been able to do better as to TX, FL, PR and USVI with these massive disasters?


Puerto Rico and USVI obviously present distinct challenges but there certainly wouldn't have been such a disparity in tone towards assistance and the funding of reconstruction. I'd love nothing more than not having my tax dollars squandered on a bunch of Floridians and Texas who chose to live in flood and hurricane-prone regions but shit happens.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:02 pm

Now would be a great time to remember that 80% of evangelicals voted for the guy who his calling storm victims lazy, wanting handouts.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

But, I'm positive this mayor fully thinks she is entitled to go over the head of the Gov. of Puerto Rico, and has "a personal right" to a direct line with the President !

Jesus christ y'all are dumb. Trump tells a lie, the mayor says "that's not true" and the world's biggest snowflake Trump--tweeting from a golf course uh-gain--and his lil brownshirt henchmen drag her through the mud. Aaaaaaaaand *repeat*. Maybe if Puerto Ricans wore swastikas they'd get faster attention from Trump.

WIederling wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Sh*t Happens. :(


Some people really seem to need their homes washed down the river for a change
which may or may not make them reconsider their moral position.
Hell remains as a last resort of getting their attention.

Doubtful. Christian lunatic and I can only assume Trump ueber fangirl Tony Perkins always blamed teh gheyz for floods, even after his home was destroyed in a flood. The truth is disasters like these just illuminate loud and clear who are simply just bad people. And it starts right at the top.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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seb146
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:11 pm

Here is a typical Trump response:

Do nothing.
Golf.
Blame everyone else.
Golf.
Tweet.
Golf.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html
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seb146
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:15 pm

330west wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
If Hillary Clinton had won and President instead of Trump, would she have been able to do better as to TX, FL, PR and USVI with these massive disasters?


Puerto Rico and USVI obviously present distinct challenges but there certainly wouldn't have been such a disparity in tone towards assistance and the funding of reconstruction. I'd love nothing more than not having my tax dollars squandered on a bunch of Floridians and Texas who chose to live in flood and hurricane-prone regions but shit happens.


And I would love not having my tax dollars spent converting public school children to Christianity but, instead, building our crumbling infrastructure.

Puerto Rico and USVI are American territories. The citizens are, for all intents, Americans. What you are saying is, because they are only step-children, they don't deserve the same help as the rest of us. There is human, then there is American.

Let me flip your statement for you to show you what you sound like:

I do not want my tax dollars paying for people in TX and FL who choose to continually and knowingly have their property destroyed. Why should I pay for their poor judgement?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
330west
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
330west wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
If Hillary Clinton had won and President instead of Trump, would she have been able to do better as to TX, FL, PR and USVI with these massive disasters?


Puerto Rico and USVI obviously present distinct challenges but there certainly wouldn't have been such a disparity in tone towards assistance and the funding of reconstruction. I'd love nothing more than not having my tax dollars squandered on a bunch of Floridians and Texas who chose to live in flood and hurricane-prone regions but shit happens.


And I would love not having my tax dollars spent converting public school children to Christianity but, instead, building our crumbling infrastructure.

Puerto Rico and USVI are American territories. The citizens are, for all intents, Americans. What you are saying is, because they are only step-children, they don't deserve the same help as the rest of us. There is human, then there is American.

Let me flip your statement for you to show you what you sound like:

I do not want my tax dollars paying for people in TX and FL who choose to continually and knowingly have their property destroyed. Why should I pay for their poor judgment.


I believe that PR and USVI are entitled to the same level of support as any US state(even though, yes, from a personal standpoint I'd rather not spend a cent on FL and TX). If hard decisions regarding reconstruction in PR have to be made, as Trump said, then those questions should be asked of FL and TX as well.
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par13del
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:51 pm

It is amazing how the USA cannot function if POTUS does not get actively involved, does make you wonder why he is so against the civil service, as they say across the pond, they are not fit for purpose.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:21 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
She may not have a first hand view of what's going on in the remote and hard to reach areas of Western PR. I don't know if she's taking time to go up in helicopter rides to the Western/mountainous part of the island. I think maybe the Gov. of PR has been taken on some of those helicopter rides covering the island. The Gov. probably knows more about what's going on island-wide, and that's what this Federal effort is about.

But, of course, the mayor's first concern understandably is her city.

But, in reality, the American citizens in Western PR, are no less important as the American citizens in San Juan. And so, this a Federal Govt. response for the island of PR. And, the Federal Govt. gets to decide priorities, with everyone obviously wanting to be first in line. So, no matter how you prioritize, someone is going to be pissed and angry that there stuff hasn't been fixed yet.

But here's the thing: if in San Juan the logistics pose a big challenge, imagine in other parts of the island that are still cutoff. And again, as I said, San Juan is the port of entry for aid and supplies. Naturally, she gets calls from mayors and people all over to ask her how the logistics are going so if they're still a big mess in San Juan, what can she do or say for those on other parts of the island?

You know from whom I haven't heard from (and to a certain extent I'm not surprised given her party affiliation)? The Resident Commissioner in Congress. I haven't seen headlines from her about pushing Congress to approve disaster relief or lobbying the federal government to do more. She obviously can't vote in Congress...she needs allies to pass a bill sponsored and written by her.

Oh...and one last thing: it's easy to tweet about how the mayor is doing nothing and how Puerto Ricans are lazy from the comfort of your very own resort while hitting the links (the same thing the incumbent criticized his predecessor of doing and promised not to do). How about he flies down and goes out to lend a helping hand?

He's scheduled to land Tuesday and I'm betting it's gonna be a photo-op and leave the same day.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
vrbarreto
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:28 pm

Well he is a see you next Tuesday kind of guy.
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:40 pm

The people in this thread trying to poke holes in the mayor of San Juan, and whatabout away the humanitarian catastrophe going on right now, are trash. Seriously. You put the truth in every stereotype of the feckless partisan bootlicker.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nbcnews/stat ... 4918472704

Watch it. Shut up and WATCH THAT and come back to me and talk about how the mayor is playing politics and doesn't know what is going on where she actually lives.

4 pallets of food and water for a population of 3 million with people drinking out of puddles and y'all defend it.

Trash.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:51 pm

ltbewr wrote:
If Hillary Clinton had won and President instead of Trump, would she have been able to do better as to TX, FL, PR and USVI with these massive disasters? At least she wouldn't be going out golfing almost every weekend (Trump will be in NJ at his NJ golf course and a the President's Cup match on Sunday in Jersey City NJ). No sending distracting tweets about anthem protests in the NFL. She likely would had more staff in place in the agencies and knew who to contact to carry out the necessary missions in a more timely matter. For sure she would know the political needs to act more quickly and a larger scale of rescue and recovery.

Still no matter who is the President, the extreme and extensive damage done in PR and USVI destroying so many buildings, roads, bridges, air and sea ports, electricity, communications, water and sewerage infrastructure, their distance from the mainland, the very high rates of poverty and broke government especially in PR, and having to deal with TX and Fl from 2 other hurricanes would have been a challenge to deal with.


If HRC had been elected by the EC as well as her victory with the popular vote her responses in Texas and Florida might have been somewhat different, but that difference would probably have been increasing any slow areas from FEMA, as well as being more generous.

The disaster from Maria would have been significantly different because Hillary fully understands that the. populations on these islands are American citizens. Millions of American citizens. There would not have been time to waste playing games with either North Korea or the NFL Players. Hillary understands the need to pull the experts together and work through data BEFORE the hurricane hit to get the lists of what needs to move as soon as practical. That could have starting preparing the USNS Comfort for sailing as soon as it's safe.

The biggest difference is that HRC would not be going to corporations before acting - like talking to shipping companies before setting the Jones Act aside. My bet is that she would be talking to the top people who went through Katrina. These people, like Lt Gen Honere' , can come in with well organized "To Do" lists that might not confirm to rules or regulations or even desk workers at FEMA.

Guys like Honere' could also be sent to the islands with a lot of sat phones and medicines as soon as Maria passed. PR in itself is far larger than Katrina so we should have had a core requirement for choppers, food, water, generators and fuel. General Honere' would have shown great respect to the President, but he would accept no stupidity or stalling from senior execs at FEMA or even the Military.

The experience in New Orleans would have also demonstrated the need to evacuate the victims. For the PR and USVI an evacuation will require wide bodied jets as well as our jumbo cruise ships. Both ships and planes can carry military and supplies going to PR & USVI and then loading up with victims for the return. The flights can be very effective in routing the victims by who has family in the upper 48. Got family in Florida? Put them on a plane to Florida.

BTW, Honore' made it clear that a carrier can handle the ATC needs as well as being an off shore base for choppers. HRC could have understood that and given a thumbs up without a 2 month study.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:47 am

330west wrote:
seb146 wrote:
330west wrote:

Puerto Rico and USVI obviously present distinct challenges but there certainly wouldn't have been such a disparity in tone towards assistance and the funding of reconstruction. I'd love nothing more than not having my tax dollars squandered on a bunch of Floridians and Texas who chose to live in flood and hurricane-prone regions but shit happens.


And I would love not having my tax dollars spent converting public school children to Christianity but, instead, building our crumbling infrastructure.

Puerto Rico and USVI are American territories. The citizens are, for all intents, Americans. What you are saying is, because they are only step-children, they don't deserve the same help as the rest of us. There is human, then there is American.

Let me flip your statement for you to show you what you sound like:

I do not want my tax dollars paying for people in TX and FL who choose to continually and knowingly have their property destroyed. Why should I pay for their poor judgment.


I believe that PR and USVI are entitled to the same level of support as any US state(even though, yes, from a personal standpoint I'd rather not spend a cent on FL and TX). If hard decisions regarding reconstruction in PR have to be made, as Trump said, then those questions should be asked of FL and TX as well.


Considering TX and FL voted for him and the territories have zero electoral votes, the choice is easy.

But, again, if we spend trillions on military, why is it such a problem to send military personnel, some of whom are already stationed in Puerto Rico, to help victims of this hurricane?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:42 am

The President has spoken.... Care to Listen??

Image

Image

Image

Brock Long, the administrator of FEMA, told CNN on Saturday it was Cruz who failed to connect with FEMA’s command center on the island, thus slowing down the recovery.

‘The problem that we have with the mayor unfortunately is that unity of command is ultimately what’s needed to be successful in this response,’ Long told CNN.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4uEiAMb5o
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
AR385
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:43 am

I guess Puerto Rico should seriously start thinking about another refrendum...
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1329
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:38 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Brock Long, the administrator of FEMA, told CNN on Saturday it was Cruz who failed to connect with FEMA’s command center on the island, thus slowing down the recovery.

‘The problem that we have with the mayor unfortunately is that unity of command is ultimately what’s needed to be successful in this response,’ Long told CNN.



I am troubled by the development of throwing the mayor of San Juan under the bus, yet why did the Jones Act take longer to temporarily repeal? Seems like culpability is not making its way around.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:08 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

Brock Long, the administrator of FEMA, told CNN on Saturday it was Cruz who failed to connect with FEMA’s command center on the island, thus slowing down the recovery.

‘The problem that we have with the mayor unfortunately is that unity of command is ultimately what’s needed to be successful in this response,’ Long told CNN.



I am troubled by the development of throwing the mayor of San Juan under the bus, yet why did the Jones Act take longer to temporarily repeal? Seems like culpability is not making its way around.



Trump is nothing but a cheap insulting bully towards everyone that is critical of him, . He tries to paint himself in glorious light when the response is definitely not going well. If the Island's mayor of the largest city is not happy, and the FEMA cheif has stated that they haven't been in good contact with that mayor, then things are not going well. Repealing the Jones act and or working around it, never should have taken so long. Especially for an Island that was decimated.

Turning around and blaming the mayor for having communications issues within her staff and federal agencies, is ludicrous considering the whole island's infrastructure is destroyed. This is all poor leadership on the part of Trump. He likes to take full credit for others good work, but when things go wrong, he like to deflect blame and destroy others.

History will not treat Trump very well.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:57 pm

stratosphere wrote:

It does seem like Trump is reactionary on PR rather then pro active like he was with Houston and Florida. However, Puerto Rico is an island and crates a more logistical problem than Florida and Houston did and I do not know how are resources are spread out among the 3 disasters. Like I said we have 3 disasters virtually within weeks of each other I guess that's why this General is getting on my nerves Bush had his Katrina and failed and Obama had his Sandy and there are people who criticized his performance on that one. Trump has 3 disasters going on I have friends of mine that are lineman and are already worked to a frazzle. One of them has been working 17 hour days first in Houston then was moved to Florida and they are now talking about sending them to Puerto Rico and my friend is a lineman in Mississippi normally. So the General can sit and arm chair quarterback this thing but he was working one disaster they are working 3 with one of them being an island. Just hope they can get the help they need soon.



Trump is reactionary because this is not a disaster that has been well planed for. PR is obviously more isolated than Texas and Florida, but is within reach for support personnel. The other day Lt Gen Russel Honere' actually named Army commands that can get the distribution job done. And get other jobs taken care of. Not only the truck drivers that are needed, but the heavy truck needed to distribute food and water.

We need to utilize the capacity of the military - failure to do so is to cause unnecessary deaths. But, hey, it's the Weekend and Trump is off for a couple days to the golf club he owns.

Lt Gen Honere' also made a pretty blunt statement on what needs to be done: there needs to be significant evacuation because some of the problems are going to take too long and there needs to be reductions in the island's population. There is an urgent need to get wide body planes and large cruise ships in for an evacuation, People leaving the island
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:40 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The President has spoken.... Care to Listen??

How about less tweeting and more doing? Tweets are like thoughts and prayers: theymake the sender feel all good inside while having done nothing.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Brock Long, the administrator of FEMA, told CNN on Saturday it was Cruz who failed to connect with FEMA’s command center on the island, thus slowing down the recovery.

Right...the mayor of the city hosting FEMA's command center didn't "connect"...right.

Ken777 wrote:
Trump is off for a couple days to the golf club he owns.
Remember when Obama golfed during Katrina?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
stratosphere
Topic Author
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:47 pm

seb146 wrote:
Here is a typical Trump response:

Do nothing.
Golf.
Blame everyone else.
Golf.
Tweet.
Golf.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html



Because we know Obummer never played golf. :roll: Was it not Obama who went to play golf right after speaking about the beheading of James Foley? He also played plenty of golf during Hurricane Sandy so lets get this out of the way. I have no problem with anyone being critical of Trump my opinion Trump gets butthurt way too easy, he needs to stay off that damn twitter and start acting like a president. However, I would venture to guess a lot of people like myself who voted for him are getting way too sick and tired of anyone and everyone liberal who has a problem the first thing thrown out is the race card. He won't help PR because he hates people of color etc.. Cannot have a differing opinion cuz if you do you are racist. There are positive things happening in PR but CNN or MSNBC will never report it because they are doing all they can to bring Trump down. But that said Trump does not help himself either and makes a lot of bad situations worse and the constant turnover of appointees of his administration that is frustrating to me. I am hoping this guy will eventually get it.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:17 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Brock Long, the administrator of FEMA, told CNN on Saturday it was Cruz who failed to connect with FEMA’s command center on the island, thus slowing down the recovery.


einsteinboricua wrote:
Right...the mayor of the city hosting FEMA's command center didn't "connect"...right.


This is simply another FEMA screwup. There are 2 FEMA reps in the mayor's office. In reality it is the FEMA leadership that should be going to visit both the Governor and the Major. We don't need FEMA Hot Shots sitting on their Crown in their main office.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Remember when Obama golfed during Katrina?


Gee, I thought it was George W who was president when Katrina hit New Orleans. I can remember him in New Orleans ("Heck of a job you're doing, Brownie!) and I can remember VP Cheney staying on vacation at those critical times.
 
stratosphere
Topic Author
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:23 pm

Ken777 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Brock Long, the administrator of FEMA, told CNN on Saturday it was Cruz who failed to connect with FEMA’s command center on the island, thus slowing down the recovery.


einsteinboricua wrote:
Right...the mayor of the city hosting FEMA's command center didn't "connect"...right.


This is simply another FEMA screwup. There are 2 FEMA reps in the mayor's office. In reality it is the FEMA leadership that should be going to visit both the Governor and the Major. We don't need FEMA Hot Shots sitting on their Crown in their main office.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Remember when Obama golfed during Katrina?


Gee, I thought it was George W who was president when Katrina hit New Orleans. I can remember him in New Orleans ("Heck of a job you're doing, Brownie!) and I can remember VP Cheney staying on vacation at those critical times.


I think his statement on Obama during Katrina was tongue in cheek but I could be wrong. Yes and the Bush "you're doing a heck of a job Brownie" was not a stellar moment. However, "Chocolate City" Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov Kathleen Blanco both Democrats deserve most of the blame in the Katrina fiasco.
 
WIederling
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:41 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Yes and the Bush "you're doing a heck of a job Brownie" was not a stellar moment.


Truth, nothing but the full truth.
But
Nobody got the idea of asking "what job" Bush43 had in mind :-)

My guess is a rather base one.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:05 pm

So what's with these reports I've been hearing about PR dock union members not wanting to do their job now, because they didn't get a raise they were looking for?

Should Trump fire the union workers, like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers, and have the military step in to deliver these shipments??? I guess the entire island needs to now be under Marshall Law indefinitely. That will shut up some of these blowhards like the San Juan Mayor In Chief...
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:20 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So what's with these reports I've been hearing about PR dock union members not wanting to do their job now, because they didn't get a raise they were looking for?

Are you sure of your facts? Post a link to news articles if you have them.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Should Trump fire the union workers, like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers, and have the military step in to deliver these shipments??? I guess the entire island needs to now be under Marshall Law indefinitely. That will shut up some of these blowhards like the San Juan Mayor In Chief...

Mr. Trump cannot fire civilian employees.

When Mr. Trump goes to Puerto Rico and directs rescue and restoration efforts, he will indeed shut up one blowhard.

The Mayor of San Juan is but one person doing all that she can do to help the situation.

You, on the other hand, are........................
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:57 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
So what's with these reports I've been hearing about PR dock union members not wanting to do their job now, because they didn't get a raise they were looking for?

Are you sure of your facts? Post a link to news articles if you have them.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Should Trump fire the union workers, like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers, and have the military step in to deliver these shipments??? I guess the entire island needs to now be under Marshall Law indefinitely. That will shut up some of these blowhards like the San Juan Mayor In Chief...

Mr. Trump cannot fire civilian employees.

When Mr. Trump goes to Puerto Rico and directs rescue and restoration efforts, he will indeed shut up one blowhard.

The Mayor of San Juan is but one person doing all that she can do to help the situation.

You, on the other hand, are........................


Blow on this for awhile Bob...

https://www.infowars.com/shock-democrat ... ame-trump/

https://www.prisonplanet.com/neighborin ... tings.html
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:16 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
So what's with these reports I've been hearing about PR dock union members not wanting to do their job now, because they didn't get a raise they were looking for?

Are you sure of your facts? Post a link to news articles if you have them.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Should Trump fire the union workers, like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers, and have the military step in to deliver these shipments??? I guess the entire island needs to now be under Marshall Law indefinitely. That will shut up some of these blowhards like the San Juan Mayor In Chief...

Mr. Trump cannot fire civilian employees.

When Mr. Trump goes to Puerto Rico and directs rescue and restoration efforts, he will indeed shut up one blowhard.

The Mayor of San Juan is but one person doing all that she can do to help the situation.

You, on the other hand, are........................


Blow on this for awhile Bob...

https://www.infowars.com/shock-democrat ... ame-trump/

https://www.prisonplanet.com/neighborin ... tings.html

LOL.....blow on infowars?

OK, I see where you are coming from.

Pitiful.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
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Re: Trump criticized for Puerto Rico response

Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:09 am

Neighboring mayor praises Trump, says San Juan mayor playing 'politics,' AWOL at meetings - http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/neigh ... le/2636185

Editing to add this - (So, they're in such dire straits, but she had the time and resources to have a special hat and t-shirt printed up.)

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