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jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:38 am

BobPatterson wrote:
jetero wrote:
So if you'd like to say how I'm "wearing blinders" with regard to it being generally accepted amongst the self right-eous, that not standing during the national anthem is a deliberate act of disrespect towards the military, please be more specific.

Think about the playing of the national anthem (or any other country's anthem) at the Olympics. It has no military meaning. Never.

A flag and an anthem are symbolic of a country and nothing more.

As Mr. Costas asked, "How come teachers aren't honored?"

How come civil rights leaders aren't honored?

I say again, until the hypocrisy about civil rights in the USA stops, we should not play the national anthem at sporting events.

It loses all meaning, just as daily recitals of the Pledge of Allegiance lose meaning. It becomes trite.

We have the 4th of July, Memorial Day, Veteran's Day and other special occasions to properly pay honor to those who deserve all honor.

Beer-swilling crowds at sporting events are not among them.

Another hypocritical act that ought to be dispensed with is the opening prayers at meetings of Congress. There is no evidence that they do any good.


Bob, of course I agree with all of the above. In fact you raise a good point about the holidays that we have that don't mean a damned thing. In the weeks leading up to Remembrance/Armistice Day in Canada, many people wear poppies and the symbolism is understood and respected. If you don't wear a poppy you're certainly not called "un-Canadian." There's a great deal of dignity and true respect about it. In the U.S., we have BBQs, beer, wave the Confederate flag because "we can."

I fear if we had the Canadian tradition in the U.S., we'd have Capos First Class SCG and NoTime leading the Poppy Police. "Yeah, you don't have to wear one, but it's strongly encouraged. Wink wink. Don't be a son of a b*tch." And Fox News, Steve Bannon, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Duck Dynasty will trot out the wife of the American Sniper and ask her what she thinks to just drill in the "shame," nevermind what they said about the Khans one short year ago. Cuz that's what we do here.

My point is that SCG and his 60% do have this ridiculous idea that the flag is all about the military. And not behaving in the way that they were taught means you're "disrespecting the military."
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:59 am

seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
jetero wrote:

That is NOT a fact, and if you don't see why it is not, then I don't know what to tell you. Murderers are responsible for murders, not communities. If you want to cite demographics, well at least remove your judgment and your indictment of an entire race.


OK, then. How about this - "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year." Is that better? Does it make you feel better if you split hairs? Regardless, since my point was that culture is to blame, I think using the phrase "black community" is just as accurate... but whatever floats your boat.


How is culture to blame and where is the link to those figures?


A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.

seb146 wrote:
So, you still defend killing unarmed minorities? Unarmed children? Just because they "seemed" like a threat?


If the court of law determines that the killing was justified, then I defend it. I shouldn't have to explain this to adults, but unarmed does not mean unjustified.

seb146 wrote:
How many white kids have been gunned down for no reason because an officer "seemed" to be threatened?


Many. In fact, many more white people are "gunned down" than black people in a given year.

seb146 wrote:
How many cops are able to go back to their jobs after gunning down unarmed minorities and kids?


Most of them, because the vast majority of police shootings are justified. If the killing is determined to be justified in a court of law, then the cop should eventually be able to go back to his/her job.

jetero wrote:
...more screeching...


The statement "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year" is completely valid and true. But, even if I use your own statement - "African-Americans are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year," it's still completely true. Is this really so incomprehensible to someone who likes to paint with such broad brushes when raging against "Conservatives" and "the right" and "Republicans?" I mean, at least in my case, I have the facts to back it up...

I guess it requires stating, again, that the facts don't care about your feelings, "a*sbag."

jetero wrote:
What's the NoTime Test for justifiable cop killings?


What it is for every mature adult that is capable of controlling his emotions and thinking logically - what the rule of law and courts say is justifiable.

jetero wrote:
You acknowledge that someone has been murdered but shrug it off as an anomaly?


Because it was an anomaly. Or, perhaps you don't know what the word anomaly means...?

tommy1808 wrote:
Blaming race as a reason for being a murderer in any form or way simply means...


I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.

yoni wrote:
Maybe that's not you intention, especially if you dislike Black folks that much.


It must be a very difficult life for you, if you think that the mere act of stating facts (from the FBI and Washington Post, no less) means someone dislikes black folks.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:05 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:

OK, then. How about this - "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year." Is that better? Does it make you feel better if you split hairs? Regardless, since my point was that culture is to blame, I think using the phrase "black community" is just as accurate... but whatever floats your boat.


How is culture to blame and where is the link to those figures?


A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.

seb146 wrote:
So, you still defend killing unarmed minorities? Unarmed children? Just because they "seemed" like a threat?


If the court of law determines that the killing was justified, then I defend it. I shouldn't have to explain this to adults, but unarmed does not mean unjustified.

seb146 wrote:
How many white kids have been gunned down for no reason because an officer "seemed" to be threatened?


Many. In fact, many more white people are "gunned down" than black people in a given year.

seb146 wrote:
How many cops are able to go back to their jobs after gunning down unarmed minorities and kids?


Most of them, because the vast majority of police shootings are justified. If the killing is determined to be justified in a court of law, then the cop should eventually be able to go back to his/her job.

jetero wrote:
...more screeching...


The statement "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year" is completely valid and true. But, even if I use your own statement - "African-Americans are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year," it's still completely true. Is this really so incomprehensible to someone who likes to paint with such broad brushes when raging against "Conservatives" and "the right" and "Republicans?" I mean, at least in my case, I have the facts to back it up...

I guess it requires stating, again, that the facts don't care about your feelings, "a*sbag."

jetero wrote:
What's the NoTime Test for justifiable cop killings?


What it is for every mature adult that is capable of controlling his emotions and thinking logically - what the rule of law and courts say is justifiable.

jetero wrote:
You acknowledge that someone has been murdered but shrug it off as an anomaly?


Because it was an anomaly. Or, perhaps you don't know what the word anomaly means...?

tommy1808 wrote:
Blaming race as a reason for being a murderer in any form or way simply means...


I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.

yoni wrote:
Maybe that's not you intention, especially if you dislike Black folks that much.


It must be a very difficult life for you, if you think that the mere act of stating facts (from the FBI and Washington Post, no less) means someone dislikes black folks.


More obliviousness.

NoTime wrote:
More statistic screeching and obliviousness


There am I speaking your language now? Get it?

I honestly don't think any of us are arguing over the veracity of your statistics. Still you keep on regurgitating them again and again, the point being the behavior is "unjustified" in your view and all of this is solely about the police.

You really won't give an inch.

Anyway, it's OK, your language says it all. You're incapable of "getting it." NoTime definitely didn't get the empathy gene. (I'm sure he still considers himself a Christian, though.)

Gotta hand it to you, a*shat.

I wish that one day you become an "anomaly" and I have the opportunity to speak to your family as such. "Never you mind, Family NoTime, don't shed a tear--after all it was just an anomaly." I'll also be damned sure to tell them how to behave.
Last edited by jetero on Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 10401
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:22 am

Freedom of Speech and Expression and peaceful demonstration. I see no violations of these principles here in this case. Kneeling and locking arms seems respectful and law abiding to me.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:18 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:

OK, then. How about this - "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year." Is that better? Does it make you feel better if you split hairs? Regardless, since my point was that culture is to blame, I think using the phrase "black community" is just as accurate... but whatever floats your boat.


How is culture to blame and where is the link to those figures?


A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.

seb146 wrote:
So, you still defend killing unarmed minorities? Unarmed children? Just because they "seemed" like a threat?


If the court of law determines that the killing was justified, then I defend it. I shouldn't have to explain this to adults, but unarmed does not mean unjustified.

seb146 wrote:
How many white kids have been gunned down for no reason because an officer "seemed" to be threatened?


Many. In fact, many more white people are "gunned down" than black people in a given year.

seb146 wrote:
How many cops are able to go back to their jobs after gunning down unarmed minorities and kids?


Most of them, because the vast majority of police shootings are justified. If the killing is determined to be justified in a court of law, then the cop should eventually be able to go back to his/her job.

jetero wrote:
...more screeching...


The statement "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year" is completely valid and true. But, even if I use your own statement - "African-Americans are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year," it's still completely true. Is this really so incomprehensible to someone who likes to paint with such broad brushes when raging against "Conservatives" and "the right" and "Republicans?" I mean, at least in my case, I have the facts to back it up...

I guess it requires stating, again, that the facts don't care about your feelings, "a*sbag."

jetero wrote:
What's the NoTime Test for justifiable cop killings?


What it is for every mature adult that is capable of controlling his emotions and thinking logically - what the rule of law and courts say is justifiable.

jetero wrote:
You acknowledge that someone has been murdered but shrug it off as an anomaly?


Because it was an anomaly. Or, perhaps you don't know what the word anomaly means...?

tommy1808 wrote:
Blaming race as a reason for being a murderer in any form or way simply means...


I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.

yoni wrote:
Maybe that's not you intention, especially if you dislike Black folks that much.


It must be a very difficult life for you, if you think that the mere act of stating facts (from the FBI and Washington Post, no less) means someone dislikes black folks.


You have not justified anything. You still seem to think that a Black or Hispanic child holding a toy needs to be killed. That an unarmed Black man walking down the street needs to be killed. That a Black man driving his own car needs to be killed. You claim "all lives matter" but don't give a damn about these lives.

And you still spout off statistics with zero proof or links.

Just because someone is convicted of murder does not mean he did it. Sometimes, they are convicted and executed solely on skin color. Because "all lives matter" right?

https://www.innocenceproject.org/africa ... t-history/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/0 ... 45144.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/07/politics/ ... index.html
http://ktla.com/2017/03/15/man-wrongful ... es-ruling/
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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seahawk
Posts: 5850
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:30 am

BobPatterson wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Yes, kneeling as a sign of protest. They took a gesture that was meant to increase awareness of a perceived society wide problem and used it to express their dislike of a person. Typical behaviour of the alt left, who always feel the need to be part of every protest and use it for their political gains.

So, you in effect indict the professors for their form of protest.

seahawk wrote:
Typical behaviour of the alt left, who always feel the need to be part of every protest and use it for their political gains.

The typical behavior, in this case, is your own, in turning a blind eye from what is actually happening and placing the behavior of others into one of your preconceived pigeonholes.

It may be that the students and faculty at Georgetown Law really do not like the "person" we know as Jeff Sessions. I admit that I do not like him.

But it is really much more than Mr. Session's person that I (and I presume they) do not like. We do not like the statements he has made and the positions he has taken over many years. We do not like the fact that this man, in positions of power, speaks and acts without respect for our Constitution and rule of law.

I (and I presume they) protest the fact that this man is Attorney General, that he lies, and that he spouts hateful nonsense. Indirectly we also protest against the man who appointed him and those who confirmed him.

At Georgetown, this began as a student protest, and a peaceful one. There was no attempt to block Mr. Sessions from speaking. The involvement of the professors was quite secondary and supportive of the students.

By the way, higher level students and professors are already protesting the actions and attitudes of Mr. Trump and Mr. Sessions in the nations law journals. So this is not something new, just a rather different form of protest.

So, mass kneeling (I dislike the formulation "taking a kneel" in current usage) is spreading from the football sidelines to college campuses and other venues. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that it has frequently been seen at prayer vigils and memorials.

Trust me on this: this form of protest will be seen more and more in the coming weeks, months and years so long as we have hypocrites on the public stage, and hypocritical ceremonies at public functions.

Get used to it.


Imho it corrupts the idea behind the gesture when you miss use it as an anti-Trump gesture. If you want to tell Mr. Sessions that you have a low opinion of him, you can protest in a normal way or turn your back to him when he speaks.I have no problem with protesting this government, but seriously a white woman at Georgetown university wearing a BLM T-Shirt makes me cringe, as I think it devalues the idea. You can support something without taking it over.
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 3385
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:48 am

seahawk wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Yes, kneeling as a sign of protest. They took a gesture that was meant to increase awareness of a perceived society wide problem and used it to express their dislike of a person. Typical behaviour of the alt left, who always feel the need to be part of every protest and use it for their political gains.

So, you in effect indict the professors for their form of protest.

seahawk wrote:
Typical behaviour of the alt left, who always feel the need to be part of every protest and use it for their political gains.

The typical behavior, in this case, is your own, in turning a blind eye from what is actually happening and placing the behavior of others into one of your preconceived pigeonholes.

It may be that the students and faculty at Georgetown Law really do not like the "person" we know as Jeff Sessions. I admit that I do not like him.

But it is really much more than Mr. Session's person that I (and I presume they) do not like. We do not like the statements he has made and the positions he has taken over many years. We do not like the fact that this man, in positions of power, speaks and acts without respect for our Constitution and rule of law.

I (and I presume they) protest the fact that this man is Attorney General, that he lies, and that he spouts hateful nonsense. Indirectly we also protest against the man who appointed him and those who confirmed him.

At Georgetown, this began as a student protest, and a peaceful one. There was no attempt to block Mr. Sessions from speaking. The involvement of the professors was quite secondary and supportive of the students.

By the way, higher level students and professors are already protesting the actions and attitudes of Mr. Trump and Mr. Sessions in the nations law journals. So this is not something new, just a rather different form of protest.

So, mass kneeling (I dislike the formulation "taking a kneel" in current usage) is spreading from the football sidelines to college campuses and other venues. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that it has frequently been seen at prayer vigils and memorials.

Trust me on this: this form of protest will be seen more and more in the coming weeks, months and years so long as we have hypocrites on the public stage, and hypocritical ceremonies at public functions.

Get used to it.


Imho it corrupts the idea behind the gesture when you miss use it as an anti-Trump gesture. If you want to tell Mr. Sessions that you have a low opinion of him, you can protest in a normal way or turn your back to him when he speaks.I have no problem with protesting this government, but seriously a white woman at Georgetown university wearing a BLM T-Shirt makes me cringe, as I think it devalues the idea. You can support something without taking it over.

Mr. Trump injected himself into a matter that began before Mr. Trump took office. This was not originally an anti-Trump gesture. It is only partially so even now. Get it through your head, if you can, that this is a very pro-American gesture having to do with civil rights.

In Mr. Session's case, what can be more normal than peacefully picketing a speech of the Attorney General at a law school? Is there a really big difference between turning your back on a speaker (only a few people could do so, attendance was limited) versus facing the cameras at nearby demonstrations where the citizens peaceably assemble to redress grievances?

How dare a woman wear a Black Lives Matter shirt to a protest rally! Imagine that!

You seem to want to protect this President and this Attorney General from the consequences of their words and actions, and to excuse the entire nation from its lack of action with respect to recognizing the rights of its minorities.

Lotsa luck with that.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:54 am

jetero wrote:

I wish that one day you become an "anomaly" and I have the opportunity to speak to your family as such. "Never you mind, Family NoTime, don't shed a tear--after all it was just an anomaly." I'll also be damned sure to tell them how to behave.


I may be reading this incorrectly, but it sure seems to me that you are wishing that NoTime is murdered so you can taunt his/her family. I get it that you feel strongly about this stuff, but don't you think that this over the top, even for this forum? Its up to you on this,but don't you think that this level of ill feeling is bad for your soul? Or do you think that this level of hate and anger accomplishes something positive?
 
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seahawk
Posts: 5850
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:54 am

I think we have to agree to disagree on this. Because I understand this gesture as something with a special meaning. I understand any sports player doing it, because they were attacked by Trump directly and even white players doing it have a point in showing solidarity with their team mates and defending the freedom of opinion and speech. But white law professors at Georgetown really have no part in this conflict. When I look at the photo I want to tell them "It is not about you..."
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 3385
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:11 am

seahawk wrote:
I think we have to agree to disagree on this. Because I understand this gesture as something with a special meaning. I understand any sports player doing it, because they were attacked by Trump directly and even white players doing it have a point in showing solidarity with their team mates and defending the freedom of opinion and speech. But white law professors at Georgetown really have no part in this conflict. When I look at the photo I want to tell them "It is not about you..."

You really don't get it. Anyone who is able to write as well as you do really has no excuse for not getting it.

Law professors, no matter their color, should be our FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE in this conflict, which deals with rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

Freedom of speech. Freedom to assemble peaceably. Freedom to protest. Freedom from oppression by the chief magistrate and his ministers. Protection of civil rights.

Who better to argue for these things than constitutional law professors?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:54 am

I do get it, I just do not agree with it. The gesture is imho first about equality and only the buffoon Trump escalated things. Yet even in the widened sense of equality and freedom of speech and opinion it is still a strongly positive gesture. I think using it in protest against officials of the current administration does this display of personal connection to the constitution no justice, or maybe it is easier to say that the current administration does not deserve this form of respectful and personal protest.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:10 am

seahawk wrote:
I think using it in protest against officials of the current administration does this display of personal connection to the constitution no justice


I would respectfully suggest that using any form of protest against an administration that calls (mainly) black men peacefully protesting injustice "sons of bitches" is more than justified. :yes:

All Trump has done is pour oil on the fire. His words are beyond contempt.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:13 am

Well, I think there are gesture more suitable to comment on the current administration. Extending the middle finger seems suitable.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:05 pm

socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:

I wish that one day you become an "anomaly" and I have the opportunity to speak to your family as such. "Never you mind, Family NoTime, don't shed a tear--after all it was just an anomaly." I'll also be damned sure to tell them how to behave.


I may be reading this incorrectly, but it sure seems to me that you are wishing that NoTime is murdered so you can taunt his/her family. I get it that you feel strongly about this stuff, but don't you think that this over the top, even for this forum? Its up to you on this,but don't you think that this level of ill feeling is bad for your soul? Or do you think that this level of hate and anger accomplishes something positive?


Wow, you got a really dark soul to read into something like that. :hot:
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:57 am

jetero wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
The reality is that over 60% of the American public agree with President Trump - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/t ... ds-1043213


Looks like you won SCG! Congrats!

socalgeo wrote:
The NFL is on the wrong side of history on this.


Hot damn! More senseless nationalistic indoctrination and bullying to come!


NOT Fake news!!!! Now Let's try Time Magazine....

NFL Rules for National Anthem Observance


http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rule ... them-rule/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:27 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
jetero wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
The reality is that over 60% of the American public agree with President Trump - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/t ... ds-1043213


Looks like you won SCG! Congrats!

socalgeo wrote:
The NFL is on the wrong side of history on this.


Hot damn! More senseless nationalistic indoctrination and bullying to come!


NOT Fake news!!!! Now Let's try Time Magazine....

NFL Rules for National Anthem Observance


http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rule ... them-rule/


Um, DF, why don't you read the NFL's own commentary? It was in the original Snopes post. That's what we (frightfully inconvenient) halfway intelligent people call a primary source. Also, why is your all-knowing idol President Bozo telling the NFL to institute a rule that already exists? Are you saying the Anointed One may not know of what he speaks? Bozo is a primary source. Are you saying Bozo=Fake news?

But keep on keepin' on.

Where I come from (hopefully that's a different a part of Texas than you), we call that grasping at straws, pardner. (One doesn't grasp at straws because one ends up drowning.)

Just continue being a Pro Bowl Boycotter (you're on my first team!) and keep the rest of the world out of your manias and superstitions.
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:16 am

jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:

How is culture to blame and where is the link to those figures?


A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.

seb146 wrote:
So, you still defend killing unarmed minorities? Unarmed children? Just because they "seemed" like a threat?


If the court of law determines that the killing was justified, then I defend it. I shouldn't have to explain this to adults, but unarmed does not mean unjustified.

seb146 wrote:
How many white kids have been gunned down for no reason because an officer "seemed" to be threatened?


Many. In fact, many more white people are "gunned down" than black people in a given year.

seb146 wrote:
How many cops are able to go back to their jobs after gunning down unarmed minorities and kids?


Most of them, because the vast majority of police shootings are justified. If the killing is determined to be justified in a court of law, then the cop should eventually be able to go back to his/her job.

jetero wrote:
...more screeching...


The statement "African Americans, which make up roughly 13 percent of the US population, are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year" is completely valid and true. But, even if I use your own statement - "African-Americans are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year," it's still completely true. Is this really so incomprehensible to someone who likes to paint with such broad brushes when raging against "Conservatives" and "the right" and "Republicans?" I mean, at least in my case, I have the facts to back it up...

I guess it requires stating, again, that the facts don't care about your feelings, "a*sbag."

jetero wrote:
What's the NoTime Test for justifiable cop killings?


What it is for every mature adult that is capable of controlling his emotions and thinking logically - what the rule of law and courts say is justifiable.

jetero wrote:
You acknowledge that someone has been murdered but shrug it off as an anomaly?


Because it was an anomaly. Or, perhaps you don't know what the word anomaly means...?

tommy1808 wrote:
Blaming race as a reason for being a murderer in any form or way simply means...


I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.

yoni wrote:
Maybe that's not you intention, especially if you dislike Black folks that much.


It must be a very difficult life for you, if you think that the mere act of stating facts (from the FBI and Washington Post, no less) means someone dislikes black folks.


More obliviousness.

NoTime wrote:
More statistic screeching and obliviousness


There am I speaking your language now? Get it?

I honestly don't think any of us are arguing over the veracity of your statistics.


Cool, then as I've stated - the facts don't care about anything else that manages to ooze out of that dank, dark pit that you call an intellect. You need not get your panties in a wad since you admit that I am right, and all you can do is wail about how the data is presented.

seb146 wrote:
You still seem to think that a Black or Hispanic child holding a toy needs to be killed. That an unarmed Black man walking down the street needs to be killed.


I've said nothing of the sort, and I think you know it... and are now just making stuff up.

seb146 wrote:
And you still spout off statistics with zero proof or links.


Reading comprehension is clearly not your forte...
 
yoni
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:39 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:34 am

NoTime wrote:
A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.


NoTime wrote:
I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.


The same of "African-American" culture you are blaming leads more than 19 % of African-Americans to serve in the military (more than any other groups), even though they represent only 13 % of the US population. Are you also blaming this culture ? After all, it's all about race, even though you don't want to admit it. You only pinpoint the stats that reinforce your own prejudice against them.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:31 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
You still seem to think that a Black or Hispanic child holding a toy needs to be killed. That an unarmed Black man walking down the street needs to be killed.


I've said nothing of the sort, and I think you know it... and are now just making stuff up.


Yes, you said that cops just need to FEEL threatened. They need safe spaces and don't need to assess situations. Just see a minority holding what they think is a gun and open fire. But a White kid holding what might be a gun, the exchange is words.

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
And you still spout off statistics with zero proof or links.


Reading comprehension is clearly not your forte...


Yes, I read your making up statistics. Where is your link to back up your claim? You SAY that 50% of the jail population represents 13% of the population or something. You keep throwing those numbers out there with no statistics to back them up.

And, just because someone is convicted does not mean they did it. Recall that I posted a link to an article about wrongly convicted Black men. You, on the other hand, have posted zero links to any of your "statistics" so, clearly, debate is not your forte.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:17 pm

yoni wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.


NoTime wrote:
I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.


The same of "African-American" culture you are blaming leads more than 19 % of African-Americans to serve in the military (more than any other groups), even though they represent only 13 % of the US population. Are you also blaming this culture ?


In a way, yes. This same culture that results in nearly half of the murders in the US being committed by 13% of the population, and 3 out of every 4 black children to be born to an unwed mother, and a lower than average high school graduation rate among black youths will obviously have an impact on socioeconomic status. Being born without a father in the home is one of the leading causes (and indicators) of poverty in this country, as is not graduating from high school. When you have huge swaths of a community starting life with these two strikes already against them, one of the few ways to ensure a climb out of poverty is to enter the military. Hence the higher participation rate.

That also explains why blacks are more likely to serve in support units, while front line combat units are overwhelmingly white. The two groups have differing reasons and motivations for joining.

yoni wrote:
After all, it's all about race, even though you don't want to admit it.


It was only a matter of time before your true colors came out... and yet, there you were a few posts back, trying to insinuate that others were racists. Perhaps look in the mirror every once in a while?

seb146 wrote:
Just see a minority holding what they think is a gun and open fire. But a White kid holding what might be a gun, the exchange is words.


The numbers show this to be false.

seb146 wrote:
Yes, I read your making up statistics. Where is your link to back up your claim? You SAY that 50% of the jail population represents 13% of the population or something. You keep throwing those numbers out there with no statistics to back them up.


I've posted the stats and the links (hence my questioning your reading comprehension). I can't help it if you're too lazy to look at them.
 
yoni
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:39 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:52 pm

NoTime wrote:
yoni wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.


NoTime wrote:
I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.


The same of "African-American" culture you are blaming leads more than 19 % of African-Americans to serve in the military (more than any other groups), even though they represent only 13 % of the US population. Are you also blaming this culture ?


In a way, yes. This same culture that results in nearly half of the murders in the US being committed by 13% of the population, and 3 out of every 4 black children to be born to an unwed mother, and a lower than average high school graduation rate among black youths will obviously have an impact on socioeconomic status. Being born without a father in the home is one of the leading causes (and indicators) of poverty in this country, as is not graduating from high school. When you have huge swaths of a community starting life with these two strikes already against them, one of the few ways to ensure a climb out of poverty is to enter the military. Hence the higher participation rate.

That also explains why blacks are more likely to serve in support units, while front line combat units are overwhelmingly white. The two groups have differing reasons and motivations for joining.

yoni wrote:
After all, it's all about race, even though you don't want to admit it.


It was only a matter of time before your true colors came out... and yet, there you were a few posts back, trying to insinuate that others were racists. Perhaps look in the mirror every once in a while?


I have no problem with Blacks or anyone else, be they conservatives or liberals or independents. I'm tolerant with anyone. But being selective in choosing stats to demean an entire group of people is simply wrong. No matter how much lipstick you smear on a pig, it's still going to be a pig.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:33 pm

NoTime wrote:
yoni wrote:
NoTime wrote:
A culture that leads to 13% of the population accounting for 50% of the murders in a country is to blame. A culture that leads to 70+% of children being born to single women is to blame.


NoTime wrote:
I'm not blaming race, I'm blaming culture.


The same of "African-American" culture you are blaming leads more than 19 % of African-Americans to serve in the military (more than any other groups), even though they represent only 13 % of the US population. Are you also blaming this culture ?


In a way, yes. This same culture that results in nearly half of the murders in the US being committed by 13% of the population, and 3 out of every 4 black children to be born to an unwed mother, and a lower than average high school graduation rate among black youths will obviously have an impact on socioeconomic status. Being born without a father in the home is one of the leading causes (and indicators) of poverty in this country, as is not graduating from high school. When you have huge swaths of a community starting life with these two strikes already against them, one of the few ways to ensure a climb out of poverty is to enter the military. Hence the higher participation rate.


Ah, I see Voldemort is back. I'd be lying if I said I missed you.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:55 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Just see a minority holding what they think is a gun and open fire. But a White kid holding what might be a gun, the exchange is words.


The numbers show this to be false.


Source?

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Yes, I read your making up statistics. Where is your link to back up your claim? You SAY that 50% of the jail population represents 13% of the population or something. You keep throwing those numbers out there with no statistics to back them up.


I've posted the stats and the links (hence my questioning your reading comprehension). I can't help it if you're too lazy to look at them.


All I saw was you condescending and calling people names while insisting that the numbers you threw out were true.

Let's just assume that they might be true (I doubt it since I never saw any links but let's just pretend): How many of those convictions were solid and how many were "he said that she saw something" or "a white jury found..." convictions? You can't just throw statistics like that out there without background. Unless one wants to prove how racist they are. Not you, of course, but someone might....
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 227
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:27 am

Point I: There is no "One True American Way". Neither Hillary, nor Trump, nor Mitch McConnell, nor Bernie, nor Fox News, nor CNN can dictate alone what is and is not American. America's core values are three: "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". Additional rights and values that the vast majority of Americans have embraced can be added to the list. The freedom to stand, sit, kneel, fart, or burn the flag are all allowed, and going against these expressions of free speech is the closest thing to un-American action, in my view.
Point II: Black Celebrities are Black People, too. Many of them lived, or have relatives who live the black experience. The police brutality/racial profiling issue affects them, and they have every right in the world to speak their mind.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:06 am

BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
All I saw was you condescending and calling people names while insisting that the numbers you threw out were true.

People is plural, person is singular. You did not see him call people names in this thread.

You did see him respond, in kind, to jetero, and only in one instant.

Facts are important.


Bob, don’t forget the multiple times when he called a full 13% of the population murderers based solely on the color of their skin because it’s part of their “culture.”
 
NoTime
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Just see a minority holding what they think is a gun and open fire. But a White kid holding what might be a gun, the exchange is words.


The numbers show this to be false.


Source?

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Yes, I read your making up statistics. Where is your link to back up your claim? You SAY that 50% of the jail population represents 13% of the population or something. You keep throwing those numbers out there with no statistics to back them up.


I've posted the stats and the links (hence my questioning your reading comprehension). I can't help it if you're too lazy to look at them.


All I saw was you condescending and calling people names while insisting that the numbers you threw out were true.

Let's just assume that they might be true (I doubt it since I never saw any links but let's just pretend): How many of those convictions were solid and how many were "he said that she saw something" or "a white jury found..." convictions? You can't just throw statistics like that out there without background. Unless one wants to prove how racist they are. Not you, of course, but someone might....


Absolutely incredible. I've already provided the stats, from the FBI no less, and you're just too lazy to look at them. Instead, you offer up limp-wristed excuses. Look, whatever makes you feel better about being wrong, have at it. But, know that blatantly ignoring FACTS is a good way for someone to prove how racist they are. Not you, of course, but you know... someone.
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:15 pm

jetero wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
All I saw was you condescending and calling people names while insisting that the numbers you threw out were true.

People is plural, person is singular. You did not see him call people names in this thread.

You did see him respond, in kind, to jetero, and only in one instant.

Facts are important.


Bob, don’t forget the multiple times when he called a full 13% of the population murderers based solely on the color of their skin because it’s part of their “culture.”


I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."

I mean, seriously, when you have to resort to completely making stuff up, it might be time to hang it up.
 
jetero
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:37 am

NoTime wrote:
I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."


NoTime wrote:
And the fact that 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murder. It's culture.


Hey Voldy, what else would you call people who are responsible for murder?
 
seb146
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:42 am

NoTime wrote:
jetero wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
People is plural, person is singular. You did not see him call people names in this thread.

You did see him respond, in kind, to jetero, and only in one instant.

Facts are important.


Bob, don’t forget the multiple times when he called a full 13% of the population murderers based solely on the color of their skin because it’s part of their “culture.”


I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."

I mean, seriously, when you have to resort to completely making stuff up, it might be time to hang it up.


You still have not showed me the link to your numbers...
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:46 am

jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."


NoTime wrote:
And the fact that 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murder. It's culture.


Hey Voldy, what else would you call people who are responsible for murder?


Oh, this again... look, I know that even you aren't this dumb. But, for the sake of argument, I'll go through the trouble of spelling this out as simply as I can, so that everyone... even you... can understand.

The fact is that nearly 50% of the murders in the US each year are committed by black people, a demographic that makes up only 13% of the population. If the murder rate was proportional to the population, then only 13% of the murders in the US each year would be committed by black people. Since black people commit almost four times as much murder as one might reasonably expect (given the population numbers), then I think the problem is a cultural one.

I'm sure you'll continue to shield your eyes from this, but I can't say that I didn't try...
 
NoTime
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:50 am

seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
jetero wrote:

Bob, don’t forget the multiple times when he called a full 13% of the population murderers based solely on the color of their skin because it’s part of their “culture.”


I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."

I mean, seriously, when you have to resort to completely making stuff up, it might be time to hang it up.


You still have not showed me the link to your numbers...


If you're this lazy in "real life," it might actually explain a few things... got any term papers you want me to write for you, too?

The links are available in an earlier post, in this very thread.
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:14 am

NoTime wrote:
jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."


NoTime wrote:
And the fact that 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murder. It's culture.


Hey Voldy, what else would you call people who are responsible for murder?


Oh, this again... look, I know that even you aren't this dumb. But, for the sake of argument, I'll go through the trouble of spelling this out as simply as I can, so that everyone... even you... can understand.

The fact is that nearly 50% of the murders in the US each year are committed by black people, a demographic that makes up only 13% of the population. If the murder rate was proportional to the population, then only 13% of the murders in the US each year would be committed by black people. Since black people commit almost four times as much murder as one might reasonably expect (given the population numbers), then I think the problem is a cultural one.

I'm sure you'll continue to shield your eyes from this, but I can't say that I didn't try...


Voldy, buddy, it's OK. I have no doubt you actually believe it (your writing is a manifestation of how your brain really thinks), along with your other generous perceptions of poor people, which I have no doubt fully color your policy positions:

-The women getting "knocked up" and wanting the government to pay for their abortions

-Art history and gender studies majors wanting the government to forgive their student loans

-Making "poor life choices" (the life choice to be poor perhaps?) and wanting the government to pay for your healthcare

And, the whole point of this thread, black athletes are ungrateful and "fools" for protesting systemic discrimination, as is evidenced by many things in addition to the shooting of unarmed blacks. Of course, they're "fools," even though many of them grew up in these same neighborhoods and rose above the difficult conditions to become star athletes and actually may feel pretty damned grateful for where they are and want to bring attention to those who aren't so lucky. But go ahead, boycott and cheer on the erosion of their livelihood because they're not doing what their conservative paternalistic white male fan base wants. Shut up, stand up, and play ball, right?

What an awesome American you are!

#MAGA

Image
 
seb146
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:56 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:

I didn't call "a full 13% of the population murderers."

I mean, seriously, when you have to resort to completely making stuff up, it might be time to hang it up.


You still have not showed me the link to your numbers...


If you're this lazy in "real life," it might actually explain a few things... got any term papers you want me to write for you, too?

The links are available in an earlier post, in this very thread.


I have asked for the exact number, but you refuse to give it. You make up these numbers but don't want to back up with sources. You say the numbers are there, but I have not seen them. The first time you posted the numbers, it was ask that you provide proof. You still have not even provided where in this thread you posted your sources. Just that they are there. So, those sources are probably from the NRA or the KKK or Fox or some biased source.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:10 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
jetero wrote:
#MAGA

What was the purpose of the photograph in that post?


It's Voldemort--perfect modern representation of Scrooge with a moralistic bent against minority races, the poor, and those with a liberal arts education. They kind of talk the same.
 
User avatar
bgm
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:00 pm

What the heck is going on here? The discussion seems to have taken a detour via Hogwarts. :boggled:
"When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat." -George Carlin
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:29 pm

seb146 wrote:
One is too lazy to do anything so another one has to repeat false figures.


That's pretty rich coming from you, considering you have wasted so much time in this thread, simply refusing to scroll back and see the links and info that I provided.

Regardless, after thinking about this for a bit more I want to add something. Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...

Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:
 
seb146
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:06 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
One is too lazy to do anything so another one has to repeat false figures.


That's pretty rich coming from you, considering you have wasted so much time in this thread, simply refusing to scroll back and see the links and info that I provided.

Regardless, after thinking about this for a bit more I want to add something. Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...

Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:


So, I went back to your post and, from what I read, the majority of offenders are white and the majority of victims are white. Black on white crime (which seems to be what you want) is not there like same race on same race homicides. Sorry. Just because you hate blacks does not mean anything other than you hate blacks. I still stand by my statement that your "13%.." statement is BS.

You still need to show how many are actual real offenders and how many are just because of people like you.

And I am a middle aged white Christian man.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:31 am

NoTime wrote:
Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...


Way to bring us gays into this, Voldemort. Believe it or not, we don’t have fainting couches. Although now that you mention it, it sounds like a fine idea. You should go into marketing for Pottery Barn. Definitely your demographic.

NoTime wrote:
Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:


Hey Voldy, since you’re so enamored with statistics, you must run silly high school regression analyses on a daily basis.

You have introduced the word “culture” into this conversation from the beginning. You have linked the word “culture” to statistics corresponding to a certain demographic (I.e., African-American). Therefore you have made this into an essentialist racial argument (i.e. there’s something about just being black that makes them murder). (If you don't know "essentialist," Voldy, read Plato. I think Aristotle was right.)

But your argument has a fatal flaw. I have asked this question umpteen times on this forum and have never gotten an answer because most people, like me, are emotional, so what little time we have we go with the gut reaction. I know because I do it all the time! (I’m thinking of a derivative of a*shat to call you as I type.)

Do you think that a black man making $100,000/year is any more likely to commit crime than a white man similarly situated?

I doubt that you do. (“Even you aren’t that stupid, right?”)

So the “culture” that you describe is not linked to the demographic statistics that you quote. Remove the variable, there is no correlation. In other words, your conclusion is indefensible.

But you guys don’t see nuance. And, as a result, from a policy perspective, you guys will never discover the root cause and instead take refuge in disproportional punishment. And when that punishment doesn't work, your response will be to punish some more.

You are self-righteous, finger-wagging, and entitled. That’s part of your “culture.” Except I’m smart enough to know that I can’t label anywhere near the majority of middle-class white men as such. (You didn't get the same gene of reasonableness.)

I invited you to have an intellectual debate about the Great Society in my first response to one of your posts. You effectively declined. I’d say we liberals have a lot of blood on our hands, but I don’t think we do. If every political battle is a “well-intentioned” policy like ACA that is confronted by a juvenile, entitled “You can’t make me do that, Mommy” war of your demographic, well I’m not sure the blood is on our hands. I’ll let your “side” take responsibility for the statistics that you’re quoting. I’d also say that if you’re such a f*cking expert, why not take a try on governing? (I know the answer ... your demographic is entirely selfish and suffers from the disease of thinking that what you have now is only because you’ve “earned” it and anyone who is not similarly situated “deserves” it. You take it a step farther by getting self-righteous about people making you feel guilty about that. “You can’t make me do that, Mommy.” Your attitude will become the failing of American “culture.”)

I think I shall call you a*spants tonight. It’s definitely appropriate for someone who is intellectual enough to be dangerous but has no humility or empathy.

(BTW, most BLM people don't blame the "white man." That'd be racist. We just want to have a conversation, or, what's more (God forbid!), be able to demonstrate without people like you turning it the next week into "All Lives Matter." You obviously don't get the point. But continue with your persecution complex to reduce your guilt.)
 
stratosphere
Topic Author
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:40 am

jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...


Way to bring us gays into this, Voldemort. Believe it or not, we don’t have fainting couches. Although now that you mention it, it sounds like a fine idea. You should go into marketing for Pottery Barn. Definitely your demographic.

NoTime wrote:
Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:


Hey Voldy, since you’re so enamored with statistics, you must run silly high school regression analyses on a daily basis.

You have introduced the word “culture” into this conversation from the beginning. You have linked the word “culture” to statistics corresponding to a certain demographic (I.e., African-American). Therefore you have made this into an essentialist racial argument (i.e. there’s something about just being black that makes them murder). (If you don't know "essentialist," Voldy, read Plato. I think Aristotle was right.)

But your argument has a fatal flaw. I have asked this question umpteen times on this forum and have never gotten an answer because most people, like me, are emotional, so what little time we have we go with the gut reaction. I know because I do it all the time! (I’m thinking of a derivative of a*shat to call you as I type.)

Do you think that a black man making $100,000/year is any more likely to commit crime than a white man similarly situated?

I doubt that you do. (“Even you aren’t that stupid, right?”)

So the “culture” that you describe is not linked to the demographic statistics that you quote. Remove the variable, there is no correlation. In other words, your conclusion is indefensible.

But you guys don’t see nuance. And, as a result, from a policy perspective, you guys will never discover the root cause and instead take refuge in disproportional punishment. And when that punishment doesn't work, your response will be to punish some more.

You are self-righteous, finger-wagging, and entitled. That’s part of your “culture.” Except I’m smart enough to know that I can’t label anywhere near the majority of middle-class white men as such. (You didn't get the same gene of reasonableness.)

I invited you to have an intellectual debate about the Great Society in my first response to one of your posts. You effectively declined. I’d say we liberals have a lot of blood on our hands, but I don’t think we do. If every political battle is a “well-intentioned” policy like ACA that is confronted by a juvenile, entitled “You can’t make me do that, Mommy” war of your demographic, well I’m not sure the blood is on our hands. I’ll let your “side” take responsibility for the statistics that you’re quoting. I’d also say that if you’re such a f*cking expert, why not take a try on governing? (I know the answer ... your demographic is entirely selfish and suffers from the disease of thinking that what you have now is only because you’ve “earned” it and anyone who is not similarly situated “deserves” it. You take it a step farther by getting self-righteous about people making you feel guilty about that. “You can’t make me do that, Mommy.” Your attitude will become the failing of American “culture.”)

I think I shall call you a*spants tonight. It’s definitely appropriate for someone who is intellectual enough to be dangerous but has no humility or empathy.

(BTW, most BLM people don't blame the "white man." That'd be racist. We just want to have a conversation, or, what's more (God forbid!), be able to demonstrate without people like you turning it the next week into "All Lives Matter." You obviously don't get the point. But continue with your persecution complex to reduce your guilt.)


All I know is that a majority of cities in this country all of them run by Democrats by the way are sh*tholes and crime though the roof and of course they are mostly people of "color" yeah so I would say there is a "culture" problem with them. I am not defending cops by any means and I am sure it is true that people of color do have not so great experiences with them. At the same time I am sure the cops are getting tired of dealing with the blacks as well . Ever see an episode of cops on TV? Who do they encountering 95% of the time? But from what I have seen if the blacks who keep getting shot would just have cooperated and done what they were told to do they would not have been shot by and large. Running from the cops is not a great idea regardless who you are. Plenty of whites have been roughed up or shot doing it too. The blacks are also not helping their cause with burning down the cities when a cop is acquitted they are only hurting themselves because a lot of those businesses that are in the inner cities are owned by other blacks or they have been incentivized to open a business there to help the inner city people. Take Baltimore the local CVS was begged to come and open there and they burned it to the ground now I ask you if you owned that business would you want to reopen it there again? I most certainly would not. Same with the businesses in Ferguson MO. Start acting civilized and less like pack animals maybe some people would start seeing things your way.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:53 pm

stratosphere wrote:
jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...


Way to bring us gays into this, Voldemort. Believe it or not, we don’t have fainting couches. Although now that you mention it, it sounds like a fine idea. You should go into marketing for Pottery Barn. Definitely your demographic.

NoTime wrote:
Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:


Hey Voldy, since you’re so enamored with statistics, you must run silly high school regression analyses on a daily basis.

You have introduced the word “culture” into this conversation from the beginning. You have linked the word “culture” to statistics corresponding to a certain demographic (I.e., African-American). Therefore you have made this into an essentialist racial argument (i.e. there’s something about just being black that makes them murder). (If you don't know "essentialist," Voldy, read Plato. I think Aristotle was right.)

But your argument has a fatal flaw. I have asked this question umpteen times on this forum and have never gotten an answer because most people, like me, are emotional, so what little time we have we go with the gut reaction. I know because I do it all the time! (I’m thinking of a derivative of a*shat to call you as I type.)

Do you think that a black man making $100,000/year is any more likely to commit crime than a white man similarly situated?

I doubt that you do. (“Even you aren’t that stupid, right?”)

So the “culture” that you describe is not linked to the demographic statistics that you quote. Remove the variable, there is no correlation. In other words, your conclusion is indefensible.

But you guys don’t see nuance. And, as a result, from a policy perspective, you guys will never discover the root cause and instead take refuge in disproportional punishment. And when that punishment doesn't work, your response will be to punish some more.

You are self-righteous, finger-wagging, and entitled. That’s part of your “culture.” Except I’m smart enough to know that I can’t label anywhere near the majority of middle-class white men as such. (You didn't get the same gene of reasonableness.)

I invited you to have an intellectual debate about the Great Society in my first response to one of your posts. You effectively declined. I’d say we liberals have a lot of blood on our hands, but I don’t think we do. If every political battle is a “well-intentioned” policy like ACA that is confronted by a juvenile, entitled “You can’t make me do that, Mommy” war of your demographic, well I’m not sure the blood is on our hands. I’ll let your “side” take responsibility for the statistics that you’re quoting. I’d also say that if you’re such a f*cking expert, why not take a try on governing? (I know the answer ... your demographic is entirely selfish and suffers from the disease of thinking that what you have now is only because you’ve “earned” it and anyone who is not similarly situated “deserves” it. You take it a step farther by getting self-righteous about people making you feel guilty about that. “You can’t make me do that, Mommy.” Your attitude will become the failing of American “culture.”)

I think I shall call you a*spants tonight. It’s definitely appropriate for someone who is intellectual enough to be dangerous but has no humility or empathy.

(BTW, most BLM people don't blame the "white man." That'd be racist. We just want to have a conversation, or, what's more (God forbid!), be able to demonstrate without people like you turning it the next week into "All Lives Matter." You obviously don't get the point. But continue with your persecution complex to reduce your guilt.)


All I know is that a majority of cities in this country all of them run by Democrats by the way are sh*tholes and crime though the roof and of course they are mostly people of "color" yeah so I would say there is a "culture" problem with them. I am not defending cops by any means and I am sure it is true that people of color do have not so great experiences with them. At the same time I am sure the cops are getting tired of dealing with the blacks as well . Ever see an episode of cops on TV? Who do they encountering 95% of the time? But from what I have seen if the blacks who keep getting shot would just have cooperated and done what they were told to do they would not have been shot by and large. Running from the cops is not a great idea regardless who you are. Plenty of whites have been roughed up or shot doing it too. The blacks are also not helping their cause with burning down the cities when a cop is acquitted they are only hurting themselves because a lot of those businesses that are in the inner cities are owned by other blacks or they have been incentivized to open a business there to help the inner city people. Take Baltimore the local CVS was begged to come and open there and they burned it to the ground now I ask you if you owned that business would you want to reopen it there again? I most certainly would not. Same with the businesses in Ferguson MO. Start acting civilized and less like pack animals maybe some people would start seeing things your way.


Ladies and gentlemen, can I present Exhibit A to prove that we have a severe problem with racism in this country. Much less veiled than NoTime. (Actually probably less dangerous than NoTime, just because of the transparency.)

-A majority of U.S. cities are "sh*tholes"

-Crime is "through the roof" in cities (if they are run by Democrats)

-Population of most cities is "people of color"

-It is a "cultural problem"

-95% of people police deal with are black (source: COPS TV show)

-If blacks just cooperated they wouldn't get shot (source: COPS TV show)

-Whites get killed, too (I guess the 5% have a worse run of luck)

-Blacks are "burning down cities"

-Blacks are "uncivilized"

-Blacks are "pack animals"

All of the above was stated about an entire group of people, based solely upon their skin color. Zero effort to try to understand any nuance in the above blanket statements other than "I am sure it is true that black people have not-so-great experiences with cops."

Solution?

God only knows. "Get a job," I'm sure. I'm scared of where we will be this time next year with the normalization of talk such as the above. History shows that politicized "cultural" problems always have "cultural" solutions, right?

(I shall mention that none of the above, BTW, is first-person experience. It came from watching COPS TV show and probably comes from listening to right-wing news for an "interpretation.")

But it's not about race. Nope, never.
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:53 am

seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
One is too lazy to do anything so another one has to repeat false figures.


That's pretty rich coming from you, considering you have wasted so much time in this thread, simply refusing to scroll back and see the links and info that I provided.

Regardless, after thinking about this for a bit more I want to add something. Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...

Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:


So, I went back to your post and, from what I read, the majority of offenders are white and the majority of victims are white. Black on white crime (which seems to be what you want) is not there like same race on same race homicides. Sorry. Just because you hate blacks does not mean anything other than you hate blacks. I still stand by my statement that your "13%.." statement is BS.


Then I would say that your education is severely lacking. (And why would you assume that black on white crime is "what I want?" Perhaps a case of projecting your racist tendencies onto me? Like someone else around here? Merely because I won't let emotion and name-calling interfere with FACTS?) But, since I like you, I'll spell it out for you - add up the total number or murders, across all races. Now, determine what percentage of those murders were committed by black people. Now, compare that to what the number should be if the rate of murderous intentions was the same across all races.

Seriously, for all of the bleeding hearts on here - don't you think that something is amiss when 6.5% of the entire population (black males) is, on a yearly basis, producing nearly 50% of the murders in this country? Really? What we're saying is that when ~18.5 million black males are producing essentially the same number of murders that 98.5 million white males are producing, then there's a problem.

There's also a problem when 3 out of 4 black children are born without a father in the home. The problem is culture.

But, I think we've beat this horse to death. As entertaining as it is to see some people around here bash out entire novels in response to my FACTS, decrying a lack of nuance and emotion on my part, I can only state those FACTS so many times before conceding that some people simply aren't capable of controlling their emotions and allowing logic to reign.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:01 am

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:

That's pretty rich coming from you, considering you have wasted so much time in this thread, simply refusing to scroll back and see the links and info that I provided.

Regardless, after thinking about this for a bit more I want to add something. Get ready, because it'll have you and your pearl clutching buddies headed for your fainting couches...

Murders are overwhelmingly committed by males. So, this would mean that it's actually pretty accurate to say that nearly 50% of the murders in this country are, in fact, committed by a mere 6.5% of the population. Even if you assume a few percentage points are false convictions (or whatever dumb reasoning your bleeding hearts want to use), that's still a pretty incredible number.

I know, I know... it's all because of "the white man" or whatever nonsense you want to use to defend what is, obviously, a serious cultural problem. :roll:


So, I went back to your post and, from what I read, the majority of offenders are white and the majority of victims are white. Black on white crime (which seems to be what you want) is not there like same race on same race homicides. Sorry. Just because you hate blacks does not mean anything other than you hate blacks. I still stand by my statement that your "13%.." statement is BS.


Then I would say that your education is severely lacking. (And why would you assume that black on white crime is "what I want?" Perhaps a case of projecting your racist tendencies onto me? Like someone else around here? Merely because I won't let emotion and name-calling interfere with FACTS?) But, since I like you, I'll spell it out for you - add up the total number or murders, across all races. Now, determine what percentage of those murders were committed by black people. Now, compare that to what the number should be if the rate of murderous intentions was the same across all races.

Seriously, for all of the bleeding hearts on here - don't you think that something is amiss when 6.5% of the entire population (black males) is, on a yearly basis, producing nearly 50% of the murders in this country? Really? What we're saying is that when ~18.5 million black males are producing essentially the same number of murders that 98.5 million white males are producing, then there's a problem.

There's also a problem when 3 out of 4 black children are born without a father in the home. The problem is culture.

But, I think we've beat this horse to death. As entertaining as it is to see some people around here bash out entire novels in response to my FACTS, decrying a lack of nuance and emotion on my part, I can only state those FACTS so many times before conceding that some people simply aren't capable of controlling their emotions and allowing logic to reign.


Why would I say that you want to look down on Blacks? Because I have read your posts. You don't talk about the victim culture the Whites have. You don't talk about drug and alcohol and one parent households that Whites have. You carry on that this is a Black only problem. Sorry, bud, but it is not. It is an America problem. You need to get out of your parent's basement and live on your own for a while while you still know it all.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:32 pm

NoTime wrote:
Seriously, for all of the bleeding hearts on here - don't you think that something is amiss when 6.5% of the entire population (black males) is, on a yearly basis, producing nearly 50% of the murders in this country? Really? What we're saying is that when ~18.5 million black males are producing essentially the same number of murders that 98.5 million white males are producing, then there's a problem.

There's also a problem when 3 out of 4 black children are born without a father in the home. The problem is culture.

But, I think we've beat this horse to death. As entertaining as it is to see some people around here bash out entire novels in response to my FACTS, decrying a lack of nuance and emotion on my part, I can only state those FACTS so many times before conceding that some people simply aren't capable of controlling their emotions and allowing logic to reign.


Go on and on about FACTS and logic, NT, while continuing to spew out the same argument and fail to wholly address any directly made to you.

I'll accept your FACTS as I have no reason to disbelieve them.

In 2015, there were approximately 16k murders in the U.S, you say black men account for half of these, so 8k.

The African-American population is approximately 40 million.

Say 50% are males. So 20 million.

That means at least 19,992,000 of them did not commit murders. (You know this argument from gun control--can't punish the many for the sins of the few. "From my cold, dead hands," right?)

Yet you say AGAIN that a whole 6.5% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murders, thereby indicting 19,992,000 people who are not guilty of what you accuse them of.

You call this a "cultural" problem, which you link solely to race, further indicting people, most importantly, the whatever percent of the population that you think is "OK" by your book. (We should ask them what they think of your rhetoric.)

For the 800th time, you remove that explanatory variable while controlling for other factors, your definition of "culture," as linked solely to "race," does not account for jack sh*t.

THAT IS A FACT. THAT IS THE ACTUAL APPLICATION OF LOGIC.

The above is the textbook definition of racism.

And, also for the 800th time, if you ever want to propose a solution to your problem, well then I think that'd be more constructive. All I can deduce is:

-Not kneeling at a football game

-Something about having a father in the home (I don't disagree, but is this to be legislated? More birth control? Easier access to abortions?)

What has not come up is access to education, income, healthcare, criminal justice reform, the list goes on and on. I'm confident you're one of those who thinks, "Well, they're just going to have to fix it themselves," the implication being--they're going to have to do it without any of the above--which I think is quite telling.

(BTW if you don't want novels being written well then just respond other than to take the Rex Tillerson approach and neither confirm nor deny that that's what you actually think instead of just regurgitating the same statistics with the NT spin on them post after post after post.)

Anyway, keep on keepin' on with your (distortion of) FACTS, V. You're a CHAMP!
 
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OA412
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:41 pm

Here's a good article on "Black on Black Crime." The article is presented as an answer to White people who ask "why are Black people not talking about Black on Black crime?" Spoiler alert: "what about Black on Black crime" is a racist dog whistle. The percentage of White victims of White assailants is not much smaller than the percentage of Black victims of Black assailants. In the end, crime rates correlate heavily with poverty rates, and Black people just happen to be disproportionately poor when compared to White people in this country. Poor White people commit crimes at rates equivalent to poor Black people. When you correct for socioeconomic status, Blacks are no more likely than Whites to commit violent crimes.

http://www.theroot.com/why-we-never-tal ... 1819092337
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 3385
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:14 pm

OA412 wrote:
Here's a good article on "Black on Black Crime." The article is presented as an answer to White people who ask "why are Black people not talking about Black on Black crime?" Spoiler alert: "what about Black on Black crime" is a racist dog whistle. The percentage of White victims of White assailants is not much smaller than the percentage of Black victims of Black assailants. In the end, crime rates correlate heavily with poverty rates, and Black people just happen to be disproportionately poor when compared to White people in this country. Poor White people commit crimes at rates equivalent to poor Black people. When you correct for socioeconomic status, Blacks are no more likely than Whites to commit violent crimes.

http://www.theroot.com/why-we-never-tal ... 1819092337

Good analysis.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:49 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Here's a good article on "Black on Black Crime." The article is presented as an answer to White people who ask "why are Black people not talking about Black on Black crime?" Spoiler alert: "what about Black on Black crime" is a racist dog whistle. The percentage of White victims of White assailants is not much smaller than the percentage of Black victims of Black assailants. In the end, crime rates correlate heavily with poverty rates, and Black people just happen to be disproportionately poor when compared to White people in this country. Poor White people commit crimes at rates equivalent to poor Black people. When you correct for socioeconomic status, Blacks are no more likely than Whites to commit violent crimes.

http://www.theroot.com/why-we-never-tal ... 1819092337

Good analysis.


It’s certainly easy to win an award for eloquence against yours truly, but this one does a particularly fine job. Thanks for sharing.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:43 am

NT, where are you, buddy?

You’re pretty good at copying and pasting your statistics. (Actually not copying and pasting, but regurgitating again and again and again.)

I’ve asked you multiple times what your solution is.

You have none.

You’re just a perennial whiner and a finger-pointer. (And, I wonder, what’s been taken from you to behave in such a way?)

Maybe if I Google enough I’ll find statistics for the stereotypical white man who is a loser professionally (but probably makes way more than he deserves) and finds time to bother himself with such trivial things like athletes standing for the national anthem because it makes him feel warm and fuzzy inside. (Sean Hannity must be your hero.)

Only losers point fingers.

The champions of losers point fingers without solutions.

You’re like the 2008 Detroit Lions (all of whom stood up for the national anthem, so I’m sure you’re proud).
 
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scbriml
Posts: 14871
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:06 am

So, Mike Pence flew in AF2 from Nevada to Indianapolis to attend the 49ers vs Colts game in order to "walk out in protest" when players took the inevitable knee. He then flew back to California.

What a contrived, hollow 'gesture' in a ludicrous effort to make a point. How much did that cost the US taxpayer?

#TakeAKnee
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 5850
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:12 am

When the inmates run the asylum...
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6842
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:45 am

scbriml wrote:
So, Mike Pence flew in AF2 from Nevada to Indianapolis to attend the 49ers vs Colts game in order to "walk out in protest" when players took the inevitable knee. He then flew back to California.

What a contrived, hollow 'gesture' in a ludicrous effort to make a point. How much did that cost the US taxpayer?

#TakeAKnee


Well, his government has a war on women to wage, he probably didn't have time to stay anyways.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
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