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330west
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:17 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.


Yeah and why did you all including the media have a field day no pun intended when Tim Tebow was ostracized for praying before a game but it's ok for the Kaepernick to take a knee and now the others who followed his lead. This is my problem with the left and the media the hypocrisy is amazing.


Adults aren't supposed to believe in superstition and fairy tales. Civilized people don't generally like having nutty sky pilots around.
Always fly first class, otherwise your heirs will.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6842
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:20 pm

Tugger wrote:
Did the president come out and say anything about Tebow?


I wonder how many products the Trump organisation sells that have a US flag in violation of the very same flag code on them. .......

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:22 pm

zkojq wrote:
Anything in this issue to do with the flag is wilful misunderstanding. If people actually cared about disrespecting the flag, there's a tonne of unrelated stuff that wouldn't be done. One list is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ame ... df45f867a0

But...but...4th of July...and Murca's birthday...and patriotism and eagles!

Alternative facts! That's it...those are fake news!
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:16 pm

NoTime wrote:
Seriously, what is wrong with you? You seem to have some real misplaced anger issues.


You know, NoTime, I am angry, but it's placed where it needs to be placed. Against the right-wing, religious-driven, "do-as-I-say, not as-I do" fingerwagging "me-me-me," "win-at-any-cost," glib paternalism that you and your fellow Trumpists on this board embody so well.

The type of stuff that now even 10% of the population thinks is legitimate to say these days is absolutely nuts. And I won't participate in its normalization.

I mean here you write:

NoTime wrote:
And the fact that 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murder. It's culture.


So you're blaming an entire racial group for half of the murders in the U.S. And you're implying that it's "their problem" to fix. Your comment is simply disgusting. Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the VAST MAJORITY of black Americans who have not come anywhere close to committing any murders, those who have stable families, etc. and ask yourself how they would feel about your paternalistic comment? Seriously, what is wrong with you? (I'm sure you're even open to discussing how things like gun control could help with this problem, too.)

NoTime wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of getting knocked up and wanting the government to pay for abortions. Or, getting useless gender studies or art history degrees and wanting the government to bail you out and pay off your student loans. Or, making poor life choices and wanting the government to pay for your healthcare.


What you're implying here is equally disgusting, because it lacks any perspective or attempt to appreciate any of the larger issues.

-Women get "knocked up" (by whom, might I ask?) (nice metaphor for someone I'm sure "values life")

-Women who get "knocked up" regularly expect the government to pay for abortions (I have no doubt you're against birth control too)

-Students who choose to study liberal arts, for which there is a long historical tradition, regularly expect the government to "bail them out""

-As for the purpose of the last statement, I could be generous and interpret it as implying that only poor people who make "bad choices" (as determined in the Court of NoTime) don't "deserve" access to health care, while those that make "good choices" do? Oh wait, no, I'm sure that you think people who make "good choices" don't get sick, and there is no such thing as a poor person who makes "good choices" to begin with, as they'd automatically be rich otherwise.

You are stereotyping and sensationalizing, using the archetype that the right has created of lazy Americans (usually minority Americans), where poor people are all whores, baby killers (some of your friends on this site have painted anyone who disagrees with the Republican Party with that brush, BTW), and criminals and constantly have their hands out asking for everything to be handed to them. I live in the fourth largest city in the U.S. I have seen such attitudes expressed only rarely. I'm sure you live in some suburb, so you must really go out of your way to have personal experiences with all these dregs of society.

You know what, though? Any society will have "dregs" as you and your cohort seem to be so obsessed with, painting an entire group of people with the same brush. I know the right's puritanical view is to just punish them because they "deserve it." That's a great simplistic view as it gives you someone else to blame and elevates your own ego into thinking that you've deserved every last bit of good that has ever come to you. As an extremely advantaged person myself, I'm not that mind-blowingly naive.

NoTime wrote:
If I was getting an extra $1000 on my tax return then, by definition, I do deserve it more than the next guy... because it's my money. It's incredible to me that this concept escapes you. Although, it does explain a lot.


You are 100% correct on this, however, and it was poorly worded. What I was trying to say was that I used to understand Republican policy to be generally about lowering taxes and reducing the government's role in society. That is a PHILOSOPHICAL political view that is entirely defensible. What bothers me is the outcome as expressed by most Republicans and conservatives, including most of the people on this board, is a singular one. "Don't take away MY stuff that I earned!" Fair enough. So I often find myself asking, "What is these people's price?" Is it $1,000 a year in lower taxes? $5,000? $10,000? Is it no taxes at all? (Nevermind that wage levels would be adjusted in the long-term if there were major changes in tax rates . . . but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you as all your money is in investments! Let me guess--those shouldn't be taxed at all, right?) At least some Republicans are able to articulate, "I believe in this political philosophy because I think it is better for the country and for all of my fellow Americans. We can create programs with the best of intentions, but there are always unintended consequences, many of which we can't foresee at the time, and I believe that those unintended consequences far outweigh the good intentions."

We live in a democratic society. You guys are all happy to drive democracy down liberals' throats whenever convenient, but in reality, you aren't OK with it as you know that your political philosophy isn't going to win over a majority of Americans. So to hold on to this grasp, you have to gerrymander, pit American against American, make outrageous claims about voting fraud, and spread conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory! So many of you are so ideological, you'll never give an inch, and are absolutely blind as to your hypocrisy. I turned on Hannity last night to get his take on the NFL, and Mr. Seth Rich himself literally called MSNBC "Conspiracy TV" and said his show was only about factual, non-conspiracy reporting! You believe your own sh*t so much you project what you're doing on the "other side," hence "fake news" and "biased media" are things only Democrats do! You've got so many myths out that you spend very little time even considering the thrust of the truth--you just go in search of more myths--as has been evidenced on this thread! You've got DIRECTFLT spreading some untrue crap he probably read on Facebook (only because it advanced his political view) and BRAVOONE purporting to have a friend's son that I'm sure he doesn't. Granted, BO's e-mail WAS written by an actual soldier, albeit a year ago, but I question the point. Did BO go to look for any "friend's sons" that had expressed support for the NFL? Of course not. Why? Because the MYTH DIES otherwise.

At least I, as a liberal, can acknowledge that there are probably more members of the Armed Forces who agree with Trump than with the NFL. I, however, question what that has to do with it. Somebody else's symbol does not have to be my symbol. I can certainly respect it as such, but I don't need to be bullied into submission. (That said, I was at a baseball game on Sunday and stand and sung the National Anthem and America, the Beautiful for what the flag MEANS TO ME. So no need to throw rocks at me.)
 
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OA412
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:56 pm

zkojq wrote:
The heart of this issue has nothing to do with the flag, but rather silencing blacks making statements of protest. Rightwing loudmouths won't allow players to take a knee, won't let them protest about it because BLM = evil, won't let them do it on their twitter account. Any form of protest makes them an 'ungrateful' to live in the US. They'd probably be outraged about Rosa Parks protesting on a bus. Yet you can be sure that they didn't have a problem with the Nazi protesters in NC. It's all about silencing one segment of the population, although one can be fairly sure that they think that libroolz are the only ones who try to silence free speech.

Indeed it is. The faux outrage is ridiculous when you consider how many of the same people performed astonishing feats of mental gymnastics defending nazis and white supremacist trash. They're OK with the confederate flag because history or heritage (spare me) in spite of the racist and traitorous history attached to it, but how dare a Black person protest peacefully? If they really loved America, they'd want nothing to do with the flag of a rogue nation that fought to secede from this country.

It's absolutely about silencing speech. The right in the US loves to point out all the examples of the left silencing speech while glossing over their many attempts. This is a prime example. So were the cries of "unAmerican" and "anti-military" during the lead up to the Iraq War. The American right is full of free speech phonies. One of the best examples of this is the venture capitalist Peter Thiel. While at Stanford he wrote a book about how US Universities silence unpopular speech, blah blah blah. Meanwhile, when Gawker outed him as a homosexual, he chose to bankrupt them. We can argue about whether Gawker's actions were correct until the end of time, but if Peter Thiel actually cared about free speech and the 1st Amendment, he would've moved on with life rather than bankrupting a media organization.
zkojq wrote:
The whole thing about 'ungrateful blacks' being applied to Stevie Wonder and black football athletes is just so vulgar. They try and attribute the success of these people (financial or otherwise) to the country being so great, yet when talking about someone white and successful (say Trump) the narrative would surely be about how the success was achieved through their own hard work and wisdom.

Oh absolutely. There's a great article in the New Yorker discussing how "ungrateful" is the new "uppity." https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... new-uppity
zkojq wrote:
If the president actually had any respect for the flag, he wouldn't have publicly trashed a GoldStar family, he wouldn't have trashed John McCain's military service, he wouldn't stick up for those who fly confederate flags and he wouldn't have chickened out of fighting under the flag at Vietnam. But no, Trump was fine with doing all that stuff, but suddenly draws the line when someone black takes the knee. It really shows what a total POS Donald is.

:checkmark: He is an awful human being and has no respect for this country or its people. If he actually cared about this country and was a true patriot, he wouldn't be trying to tear it apart ever chance he gets, and he certainly wouldn't spout his "both sides" garbage rather than outright denouncing nazis and vile racists. Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:02 pm

America's Divisive PAC Numero Uno, the NRA, issues a fine "shaming" commercial. (Interesting for an organization that has no shame whatsoever.)

https://youtu.be/z3j1ZKz7PWQ

Why the need for such a blatant false equivalence?

Oh that's right. Because Bozo wants to shove it down everyone's throats.

"Free speech" indeed.
 
seb146
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:22 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.


Yeah and why did you all including the media have a field day no pun intended when Tim Tebow was ostracized for praying before a game but it's ok for the Kaepernick to take a knee and now the others who followed his lead. This is my problem with the left and the media the hypocrisy is amazing.


Actually, he was not "ostracized" for praying all the time. There was debate and discussion whether this was a team endorsing a particular religion and how this was religious freedom. Tebow praying is not even in the same ballpark (no pun intended) as what entire teams are doing now.

Sports figures pray publicly. So what? No one cares. It made for debate on a slow news day when Tebow did it. This is a whole different thing.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
seb146
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:24 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.

Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents. You righties should know better.


Ah, the old "well 'liberals' do the exact same thing" argument. Still tired BS. Obama did not DEMAND players be fired for supporting the Redskins name. Obama did not DEMAND people respect him. Obama did not DEMAND.... See the difference? But, you righties don't understand that. As long as you all can make up an excuse to hate Obama....
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.


Yeah and why did you all including the media have a field day no pun intended when Tim Tebow was ostracized for praying before a game but it's ok for the Kaepernick to take a knee and now the others who followed his lead. This is my problem with the left and the media the hypocrisy is amazing.


Actually, he was not "ostracized" for praying all the time. There was debate and discussion whether this was a team endorsing a particular religion and how this was religious freedom. Tebow praying is not even in the same ballpark (no pun intended) as what entire teams are doing now.

Sports figures pray publicly. So what? No one cares. It made for debate on a slow news day when Tebow did it. This is a whole different thing.


"But . . . but . . . BUT . . . Tebow!" Now there's a new one.

We liberals were way more worried about his lack of sex drive.
 
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OA412
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:30 pm

zkojq wrote:
https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom/status/911791417919508480


Joe Walsh is another POS. He follows up that lovely tweet about "ungrateful blacks" with this one: https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom/status ... 1399062529

The utter tone deafness and complete lack of self-awareness is almost mind blowing.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.

Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents. You righties should know better.


Ah, the old "well 'liberals' do the exact same thing" argument. Still tired BS. Obama did not DEMAND players be fired for supporting the Redskins name. Obama did not DEMAND people respect him. Obama did not DEMAND.... See the difference? But, you righties don't understand that. As long as you all can make up an excuse to hate Obama....

I came as close to loving Mr. Obama as I have to loving any President since Franklin Roosevelt (I was too young to "love him" as a leader or politically). Mr. Truman was the first President I came to love and respect.

But you righties wouldn't understand this, just as you did not understand "Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents."
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15965
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:16 pm

BravoOne wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Blacks who were never slaves are fighting whites who were never Nazis over a Confederate statue erected by southern Democrats because now Democrats can't stand their own history anymore. Don't know about others but I'm getting pretty tired of this petty crap from a bunch of over paid whinny little prima donnas. The NFL is a criminal organization and should be cut down just little. I'll bet viewership falls significantly this year. Trump needs to button his lip as well.

Play ball or cut bait but don't waste my time with your petty asinine bitching.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”
But congrats on removing all doubt in one sentence



I guess you can't handle it any better than the rock throwing anarchists that continue to breed in our society ...like rats. Your right, I don't like whinny ass people like you.

Oh gawd no not the rock throwing anarchists! Nothing makes you white supremacists melt fast as little snowflakes like a scapegoat bogeyman. Also: spelling.

330west wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.


Yeah and why did you all including the media have a field day no pun intended when Tim Tebow was ostracized for praying before a game but it's ok for the Kaepernick to take a knee and now the others who followed his lead. This is my problem with the left and the media the hypocrisy is amazing.


Adults aren't supposed to believe in superstition and fairy tales. Civilized people don't generally like having nutty sky pilots around.

A) No one gave a sh!t what dog and pony show Tim prayed to
B) No, and I mean NO, government official said he should be fired for doing so
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1785
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:21 pm

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president is demanding all NFL players who take a knee be fired but didn't he demand Obama stop talking about the Redskins changing their name and be presidential? Typical right winger: do as I say, not as I do.


Yeah and why did you all including the media have a field day no pun intended when Tim Tebow was ostracized for praying before a game but it's ok for the Kaepernick to take a knee and now the others who followed his lead. This is my problem with the left and the media the hypocrisy is amazing.


Actually, he was not "ostracized" for praying all the time. There was debate and discussion whether this was a team endorsing a particular religion and how this was religious freedom. Tebow praying is not even in the same ballpark (no pun intended) as what entire teams are doing now.

Sports figures pray publicly. So what? No one cares. It made for debate on a slow news day when Tebow did it. This is a whole different thing.


You are correct that Tebow is a whole different thing and that there is no real comparison the anthem situation... But you completely miss on Tebow's experience both in the NFL and in CFB. His religious practices were ostracized, hyped, and examined on a hypersensitive level to the point where his virginity was the subject of national headlines on major news outlets. The only parallel between the anthem situation and Tebow is that Tebow and Kaep are no longer on a NFL rosters because their media circus surrounding them outweighs the benefits of having them on the team.
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 852
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:

You are correct that Tebow is a whole different thing and that there is no real comparison the anthem situation... But you completely miss on Tebow's experience both in the NFL and in CFB. His religious practices were ostracized, hyped, and examined on a hypersensitive level to the point where his virginity was the subject of national headlines on major news outlets. The only parallel between the anthem situation and Tebow is that Tebow and Kaep are no longer on a NFL rosters because their media circus surrounding them outweighs the benefits of having them on the team.


The attention towards Tebow's religious zealotry was over the top, but did not get nearly as many people's attention as Kaepernick's actions did.

As far as why they are both not starting - Tebow was given 2nd chances (after being traded to the Jets and released, both the Patriots and Eagles signed him to practice squad but he failed to demonstrate that he was good enough to even be second string QB). Kaep hasn't been given his 2nd chance to prove he is still talented. And as a whole, Kaep is a much better QB statistically and has more playoff wins and a SB appearance. Nobody at his age and with his resume of accomplishments has ever been blackballed by the league the way he has.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1785
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:00 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:

You are correct that Tebow is a whole different thing and that there is no real comparison the anthem situation... But you completely miss on Tebow's experience both in the NFL and in CFB. His religious practices were ostracized, hyped, and examined on a hypersensitive level to the point where his virginity was the subject of national headlines on major news outlets. The only parallel between the anthem situation and Tebow is that Tebow and Kaep are no longer on a NFL rosters because their media circus surrounding them outweighs the benefits of having them on the team.


The attention towards Tebow's religious zealotry was over the top, but did not get nearly as many people's attention as Kaepernick's actions did.

As far as why they are both not starting - Tebow was given 2nd chances (after being traded to the Jets and released, both the Patriots and Eagles signed him to practice squad but he failed to demonstrate that he was good enough to even be second string QB). Kaep hasn't been given his 2nd chance to prove he is still talented. And as a whole, Kaep is a much better QB statistically and has more playoff wins and a SB appearance. Nobody at his age and with his resume of accomplishments has ever been blackballed by the league the way he has.


Lets not forget though that Kaep opted out of his contract... He could have stayed... I agree that he probably is good enough to be a backup in this league and perhaps a starter over some of the lower tier QBs, but the question is at what price and at what distraction to clubs. A couple people that I know from college are close to the league and are pretty certain he was offered contracts to be a backup, but supposedly he insisted that if he wasn't guaranteed a shot at the starting job he wouldn't take it. I personally don't think he was blackballed. I think that is evidenced by the leagues' reaction to Trump this weekend. I do think he has the mindset that he should be a starter or he isn't going to play. I think part of that is ego (going from a very effective QB to not so effective in 15-16), but the other part of that is wanting to advance his agenda.

I also disagree that Tebow didn't get more attention than Kaep... Pretty much from 2007-2012 you could have renamed ESPN the Tim Tebow network. I would agree that Tebow got a bit less attention in the non-sports media world but Tebow mania was non-stop within the sports world for pretty close to 5 years, while Kaep is still in progress. I would imagine the media circus would be pretty outrageous for both if either of them return to the field at the highest level, MLB for Tebow, and NFL for Kaep
 
jetero
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:42 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
to the point where his virginity was the subject of national headlines on major news outlets.


Color me still intrigued!

(But it's OK if you wanna wait Timmy. I won't criticize you.)
 
seb146
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:44 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents. You righties should know better.


Ah, the old "well 'liberals' do the exact same thing" argument. Still tired BS. Obama did not DEMAND players be fired for supporting the Redskins name. Obama did not DEMAND people respect him. Obama did not DEMAND.... See the difference? But, you righties don't understand that. As long as you all can make up an excuse to hate Obama....

I came as close to loving Mr. Obama as I have to loving any President since Franklin Roosevelt (I was too young to "love him" as a leader or politically). Mr. Truman was the first President I came to love and respect.

But you righties wouldn't understand this, just as you did not understand "Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents."


So "here is my opinion" is the same or worse than "FIRE THEM ALL!!!"

You righties are really.... I just don't have the words for it.

You righties also believe with ever fiber of your being that it is not disrespectful those jacked up pick-up trucks spewing exhaust onto a fluttering American flag in the bed or that people can protest their religious freedom at work but sport figures should not ever protest killing of unarmed people at work.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Ah, the old "well 'liberals' do the exact same thing" argument. Still tired BS. Obama did not DEMAND players be fired for supporting the Redskins name. Obama did not DEMAND people respect him. Obama did not DEMAND.... See the difference? But, you righties don't understand that. As long as you all can make up an excuse to hate Obama....

I came as close to loving Mr. Obama as I have to loving any President since Franklin Roosevelt (I was too young to "love him" as a leader or politically). Mr. Truman was the first President I came to love and respect.

But you righties wouldn't understand this, just as you did not understand "Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents."


So "here is my opinion" is the same or worse than "FIRE THEM ALL!!!"

You righties are really.... I just don't have the words for it.

You righties also believe with ever fiber of your being that it is not disrespectful those jacked up pick-up trucks spewing exhaust onto a fluttering American flag in the bed or that people can protest their religious freedom at work but sport figures should not ever protest killing of unarmed people at work.

What on earth are you nattering on about?

My opposition to almost all things that Mr. Trump appears to stand for is well known.

My support for athletes who kneel, stand, raise a fist or turn a back to protest for civil rights, for civil law enforcement (enlightened policing), and a civil society is also well known here - or should be by now.

You appear to be almost unique in your lack of understanding.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:07 am

jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Seriously, what is wrong with you? You seem to have some real misplaced anger issues.


You know, NoTime, I am angry, but it's placed where it needs to be placed. Against the right-wing, religious-driven, "do-as-I-say, not as-I do" fingerwagging "me-me-me," "win-at-any-cost," glib paternalism that you and your fellow Trumpists on this board embody so well.

The type of stuff that now even 10% of the population thinks is legitimate to say these days is absolutely nuts. And I won't participate in its normalization.

I mean here you write:

NoTime wrote:
And the fact that 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murder. It's culture.


So you're blaming an entire racial group for half of the murders in the U.S. And you're implying that it's "their problem" to fix. Your comment is simply disgusting. Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the VAST MAJORITY of black Americans who have not come anywhere close to committing any murders, those who have stable families, etc. and ask yourself how they would feel about your paternalistic comment? Seriously, what is wrong with you? (I'm sure you're even open to discussing how things like gun control could help with this problem, too.)

NoTime wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of getting knocked up and wanting the government to pay for abortions. Or, getting useless gender studies or art history degrees and wanting the government to bail you out and pay off your student loans. Or, making poor life choices and wanting the government to pay for your healthcare.


What you're implying here is equally disgusting, because it lacks any perspective or attempt to appreciate any of the larger issues.

-Women get "knocked up" (by whom, might I ask?) (nice metaphor for someone I'm sure "values life")

-Women who get "knocked up" regularly expect the government to pay for abortions (I have no doubt you're against birth control too)

-Students who choose to study liberal arts, for which there is a long historical tradition, regularly expect the government to "bail them out""

-As for the purpose of the last statement, I could be generous and interpret it as implying that only poor people who make "bad choices" (as determined in the Court of NoTime) don't "deserve" access to health care, while those that make "good choices" do? Oh wait, no, I'm sure that you think people who make "good choices" don't get sick, and there is no such thing as a poor person who makes "good choices" to begin with, as they'd automatically be rich otherwise.

You are stereotyping and sensationalizing, using the archetype that the right has created of lazy Americans (usually minority Americans), where poor people are all whores, baby killers (some of your friends on this site have painted anyone who disagrees with the Republican Party with that brush, BTW), and criminals and constantly have their hands out asking for everything to be handed to them. I live in the fourth largest city in the U.S. I have seen such attitudes expressed only rarely. I'm sure you live in some suburb, so you must really go out of your way to have personal experiences with all these dregs of society.

You know what, though? Any society will have "dregs" as you and your cohort seem to be so obsessed with, painting an entire group of people with the same brush. I know the right's puritanical view is to just punish them because they "deserve it." That's a great simplistic view as it gives you someone else to blame and elevates your own ego into thinking that you've deserved every last bit of good that has ever come to you. As an extremely advantaged person myself, I'm not that mind-blowingly naive.

NoTime wrote:
If I was getting an extra $1000 on my tax return then, by definition, I do deserve it more than the next guy... because it's my money. It's incredible to me that this concept escapes you. Although, it does explain a lot.


You are 100% correct on this, however, and it was poorly worded. What I was trying to say was that I used to understand Republican policy to be generally about lowering taxes and reducing the government's role in society. That is a PHILOSOPHICAL political view that is entirely defensible. What bothers me is the outcome as expressed by most Republicans and conservatives, including most of the people on this board, is a singular one. "Don't take away MY stuff that I earned!" Fair enough. So I often find myself asking, "What is these people's price?" Is it $1,000 a year in lower taxes? $5,000? $10,000? Is it no taxes at all? (Nevermind that wage levels would be adjusted in the long-term if there were major changes in tax rates . . . but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you as all your money is in investments! Let me guess--those shouldn't be taxed at all, right?) At least some Republicans are able to articulate, "I believe in this political philosophy because I think it is better for the country and for all of my fellow Americans. We can create programs with the best of intentions, but there are always unintended consequences, many of which we can't foresee at the time, and I believe that those unintended consequences far outweigh the good intentions."

We live in a democratic society. You guys are all happy to drive democracy down liberals' throats whenever convenient, but in reality, you aren't OK with it as you know that your political philosophy isn't going to win over a majority of Americans. So to hold on to this grasp, you have to gerrymander, pit American against American, make outrageous claims about voting fraud, and spread conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory! So many of you are so ideological, you'll never give an inch, and are absolutely blind as to your hypocrisy. I turned on Hannity last night to get his take on the NFL, and Mr. Seth Rich himself literally called MSNBC "Conspiracy TV" and said his show was only about factual, non-conspiracy reporting! You believe your own sh*t so much you project what you're doing on the "other side," hence "fake news" and "biased media" are things only Democrats do! You've got so many myths out that you spend very little time even considering the thrust of the truth--you just go in search of more myths--as has been evidenced on this thread! You've got DIRECTFLT spreading some untrue crap he probably read on Facebook (only because it advanced his political view) and BRAVOONE purporting to have a friend's son that I'm sure he doesn't. Granted, BO's e-mail WAS written by an actual soldier, albeit a year ago, but I question the point. Did BO go to look for any "friend's sons" that had expressed support for the NFL? Of course not. Why? Because the MYTH DIES otherwise.

At least I, as a liberal, can acknowledge that there are probably more members of the Armed Forces who agree with Trump than with the NFL. I, however, question what that has to do with it. Somebody else's symbol does not have to be my symbol. I can certainly respect it as such, but I don't need to be bullied into submission. (That said, I was at a baseball game on Sunday and stand and sung the National Anthem and America, the Beautiful for what the flag MEANS TO ME. So no need to throw rocks at me.)

Wow - that's a lot of anger. LOL do you really think that anyone is going to read all of this?

Trump has a condo in your head and he's moving furniture around.

LOL
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:14 am

seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Ah, the old "well 'liberals' do the exact same thing" argument. Still tired BS. Obama did not DEMAND players be fired for supporting the Redskins name. Obama did not DEMAND people respect him. Obama did not DEMAND.... See the difference? But, you righties don't understand that. As long as you all can make up an excuse to hate Obama....

I came as close to loving Mr. Obama as I have to loving any President since Franklin Roosevelt (I was too young to "love him" as a leader or politically). Mr. Truman was the first President I came to love and respect.

But you righties wouldn't understand this, just as you did not understand "Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents."


So "here is my opinion" is the same or worse than "FIRE THEM ALL!!!"

You righties are really.... I just don't have the words for it.

You righties also believe with ever fiber of your being that it is not disrespectful those jacked up pick-up trucks spewing exhaust onto a fluttering American flag in the bed or that people can protest their religious freedom at work but sport figures should not ever protest killing of unarmed people at work.


Holy smokes you really have gotten yourself all lathered up. Wow! Let me get this straight - my pickup truck flying an American flag is disrespectful to somebody? Like people who hate America? Are you offended by the American flag or the US national anthem?
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:32 am

socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Seriously, what is wrong with you? You seem to have some real misplaced anger issues.


You know, NoTime, I am angry, but it's placed where it needs to be placed. Against the right-wing, religious-driven, "do-as-I-say, not as-I do" fingerwagging "me-me-me," "win-at-any-cost," glib paternalism that you and your fellow Trumpists on this board embody so well.

The type of stuff that now even 10% of the population thinks is legitimate to say these days is absolutely nuts. And I won't participate in its normalization.

I mean here you write:

NoTime wrote:
And the fact that 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of the murder. It's culture.


So you're blaming an entire racial group for half of the murders in the U.S. And you're implying that it's "their problem" to fix. Your comment is simply disgusting. Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the VAST MAJORITY of black Americans who have not come anywhere close to committing any murders, those who have stable families, etc. and ask yourself how they would feel about your paternalistic comment? Seriously, what is wrong with you? (I'm sure you're even open to discussing how things like gun control could help with this problem, too.)

NoTime wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of getting knocked up and wanting the government to pay for abortions. Or, getting useless gender studies or art history degrees and wanting the government to bail you out and pay off your student loans. Or, making poor life choices and wanting the government to pay for your healthcare.


What you're implying here is equally disgusting, because it lacks any perspective or attempt to appreciate any of the larger issues.

-Women get "knocked up" (by whom, might I ask?) (nice metaphor for someone I'm sure "values life")

-Women who get "knocked up" regularly expect the government to pay for abortions (I have no doubt you're against birth control too)

-Students who choose to study liberal arts, for which there is a long historical tradition, regularly expect the government to "bail them out""

-As for the purpose of the last statement, I could be generous and interpret it as implying that only poor people who make "bad choices" (as determined in the Court of NoTime) don't "deserve" access to health care, while those that make "good choices" do? Oh wait, no, I'm sure that you think people who make "good choices" don't get sick, and there is no such thing as a poor person who makes "good choices" to begin with, as they'd automatically be rich otherwise.

You are stereotyping and sensationalizing, using the archetype that the right has created of lazy Americans (usually minority Americans), where poor people are all whores, baby killers (some of your friends on this site have painted anyone who disagrees with the Republican Party with that brush, BTW), and criminals and constantly have their hands out asking for everything to be handed to them. I live in the fourth largest city in the U.S. I have seen such attitudes expressed only rarely. I'm sure you live in some suburb, so you must really go out of your way to have personal experiences with all these dregs of society.

You know what, though? Any society will have "dregs" as you and your cohort seem to be so obsessed with, painting an entire group of people with the same brush. I know the right's puritanical view is to just punish them because they "deserve it." That's a great simplistic view as it gives you someone else to blame and elevates your own ego into thinking that you've deserved every last bit of good that has ever come to you. As an extremely advantaged person myself, I'm not that mind-blowingly naive.

NoTime wrote:
If I was getting an extra $1000 on my tax return then, by definition, I do deserve it more than the next guy... because it's my money. It's incredible to me that this concept escapes you. Although, it does explain a lot.


You are 100% correct on this, however, and it was poorly worded. What I was trying to say was that I used to understand Republican policy to be generally about lowering taxes and reducing the government's role in society. That is a PHILOSOPHICAL political view that is entirely defensible. What bothers me is the outcome as expressed by most Republicans and conservatives, including most of the people on this board, is a singular one. "Don't take away MY stuff that I earned!" Fair enough. So I often find myself asking, "What is these people's price?" Is it $1,000 a year in lower taxes? $5,000? $10,000? Is it no taxes at all? (Nevermind that wage levels would be adjusted in the long-term if there were major changes in tax rates . . . but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you as all your money is in investments! Let me guess--those shouldn't be taxed at all, right?) At least some Republicans are able to articulate, "I believe in this political philosophy because I think it is better for the country and for all of my fellow Americans. We can create programs with the best of intentions, but there are always unintended consequences, many of which we can't foresee at the time, and I believe that those unintended consequences far outweigh the good intentions."

We live in a democratic society. You guys are all happy to drive democracy down liberals' throats whenever convenient, but in reality, you aren't OK with it as you know that your political philosophy isn't going to win over a majority of Americans. So to hold on to this grasp, you have to gerrymander, pit American against American, make outrageous claims about voting fraud, and spread conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory! So many of you are so ideological, you'll never give an inch, and are absolutely blind as to your hypocrisy. I turned on Hannity last night to get his take on the NFL, and Mr. Seth Rich himself literally called MSNBC "Conspiracy TV" and said his show was only about factual, non-conspiracy reporting! You believe your own sh*t so much you project what you're doing on the "other side," hence "fake news" and "biased media" are things only Democrats do! You've got so many myths out that you spend very little time even considering the thrust of the truth--you just go in search of more myths--as has been evidenced on this thread! You've got DIRECTFLT spreading some untrue crap he probably read on Facebook (only because it advanced his political view) and BRAVOONE purporting to have a friend's son that I'm sure he doesn't. Granted, BO's e-mail WAS written by an actual soldier, albeit a year ago, but I question the point. Did BO go to look for any "friend's sons" that had expressed support for the NFL? Of course not. Why? Because the MYTH DIES otherwise.

At least I, as a liberal, can acknowledge that there are probably more members of the Armed Forces who agree with Trump than with the NFL. I, however, question what that has to do with it. Somebody else's symbol does not have to be my symbol. I can certainly respect it as such, but I don't need to be bullied into submission. (That said, I was at a baseball game on Sunday and stand and sung the National Anthem and America, the Beautiful for what the flag MEANS TO ME. So no need to throw rocks at me.)

Wow - that's a lot of anger. LOL do you really think that anyone is going to read all of this?

Trump has a condo in your head and he's moving furniture around.

LOL


So, so much anger, let me tell you.

Given the logic and literacy skills of your "side," I'm surprised you even read the first sentence, quite honestly. And you made it through a whole post without mention of Hillary, Obama, leftist assassins, or Antifa conspiracies. With a laugh at the end even! Good work, maybe there is hope.
Last edited by jetero on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:37 am

jetero wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:

You know, NoTime, I am angry, but it's placed where it needs to be placed. Against the right-wing, religious-driven, "do-as-I-say, not as-I do" fingerwagging "me-me-me," "win-at-any-cost," glib paternalism that you and your fellow Trumpists on this board embody so well.

The type of stuff that now even 10% of the population thinks is legitimate to say these days is absolutely nuts. And I won't participate in its normalization.

I mean here you write:



So you're blaming an entire racial group for half of the murders in the U.S. And you're implying that it's "their problem" to fix. Your comment is simply disgusting. Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the VAST MAJORITY of black Americans who have not come anywhere close to committing any murders, those who have stable families, etc. and ask yourself how they would feel about your paternalistic comment? Seriously, what is wrong with you? (I'm sure you're even open to discussing how things like gun control could help with this problem, too.)



What you're implying here is equally disgusting, because it lacks any perspective or attempt to appreciate any of the larger issues.

-Women get "knocked up" (by whom, might I ask?) (nice metaphor for someone I'm sure "values life")

-Women who get "knocked up" regularly expect the government to pay for abortions (I have no doubt you're against birth control too)

-Students who choose to study liberal arts, for which there is a long historical tradition, regularly expect the government to "bail them out""

-As for the purpose of the last statement, I could be generous and interpret it as implying that only poor people who make "bad choices" (as determined in the Court of NoTime) don't "deserve" access to health care, while those that make "good choices" do? Oh wait, no, I'm sure that you think people who make "good choices" don't get sick, and there is no such thing as a poor person who makes "good choices" to begin with, as they'd automatically be rich otherwise.

You are stereotyping and sensationalizing, using the archetype that the right has created of lazy Americans (usually minority Americans), where poor people are all whores, baby killers (some of your friends on this site have painted anyone who disagrees with the Republican Party with that brush, BTW), and criminals and constantly have their hands out asking for everything to be handed to them. I live in the fourth largest city in the U.S. I have seen such attitudes expressed only rarely. I'm sure you live in some suburb, so you must really go out of your way to have personal experiences with all these dregs of society.

You know what, though? Any society will have "dregs" as you and your cohort seem to be so obsessed with, painting an entire group of people with the same brush. I know the right's puritanical view is to just punish them because they "deserve it." That's a great simplistic view as it gives you someone else to blame and elevates your own ego into thinking that you've deserved every last bit of good that has ever come to you. As an extremely advantaged person myself, I'm not that mind-blowingly naive.



You are 100% correct on this, however, and it was poorly worded. What I was trying to say was that I used to understand Republican policy to be generally about lowering taxes and reducing the government's role in society. That is a PHILOSOPHICAL political view that is entirely defensible. What bothers me is the outcome as expressed by most Republicans and conservatives, including most of the people on this board, is a singular one. "Don't take away MY stuff that I earned!" Fair enough. So I often find myself asking, "What is these people's price?" Is it $1,000 a year in lower taxes? $5,000? $10,000? Is it no taxes at all? (Nevermind that wage levels would be adjusted in the long-term if there were major changes in tax rates . . . but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you as all your money is in investments! Let me guess--those shouldn't be taxed at all, right?) At least some Republicans are able to articulate, "I believe in this political philosophy because I think it is better for the country and for all of my fellow Americans. We can create programs with the best of intentions, but there are always unintended consequences, many of which we can't foresee at the time, and I believe that those unintended consequences far outweigh the good intentions."

We live in a democratic society. You guys are all happy to drive democracy down liberals' throats whenever convenient, but in reality, you aren't OK with it as you know that your political philosophy isn't going to win over a majority of Americans. So to hold on to this grasp, you have to gerrymander, pit American against American, make outrageous claims about voting fraud, and spread conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory! So many of you are so ideological, you'll never give an inch, and are absolutely blind as to your hypocrisy. I turned on Hannity last night to get his take on the NFL, and Mr. Seth Rich himself literally called MSNBC "Conspiracy TV" and said his show was only about factual, non-conspiracy reporting! You believe your own sh*t so much you project what you're doing on the "other side," hence "fake news" and "biased media" are things only Democrats do! You've got so many myths out that you spend very little time even considering the thrust of the truth--you just go in search of more myths--as has been evidenced on this thread! You've got DIRECTFLT spreading some untrue crap he probably read on Facebook (only because it advanced his political view) and BRAVOONE purporting to have a friend's son that I'm sure he doesn't. Granted, BO's e-mail WAS written by an actual soldier, albeit a year ago, but I question the point. Did BO go to look for any "friend's sons" that had expressed support for the NFL? Of course not. Why? Because the MYTH DIES otherwise.

At least I, as a liberal, can acknowledge that there are probably more members of the Armed Forces who agree with Trump than with the NFL. I, however, question what that has to do with it. Somebody else's symbol does not have to be my symbol. I can certainly respect it as such, but I don't need to be bullied into submission. (That said, I was at a baseball game on Sunday and stand and sung the National Anthem and America, the Beautiful for what the flag MEANS TO ME. So no need to throw rocks at me.)

Wow - that's a lot of anger. LOL do you really think that anyone is going to read all of this?

Trump has a condo in your head and he's moving furniture around.

LOL


So, so much anger, let me tell you.

Given the logic and literacy skills of your "side," I'm surprised you even read the first sentence, quite honestly. good work, maybe there is hope.


Oh god no - there is no hope for me in your eyes. Which is why I am enjoying matching you melt down over nonsense. Trump literally is living in your head.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:42 am

socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
Wow - that's a lot of anger. LOL do you really think that anyone is going to read all of this?

Trump has a condo in your head and he's moving furniture around.

LOL


So, so much anger, let me tell you.

Given the logic and literacy skills of your "side," I'm surprised you even read the first sentence, quite honestly. good work, maybe there is hope.


Oh god no - there is no hope for me in your eyes. Which is why I am enjoying matching you melt down over nonsense. Trump literally is living in your head.


You forgot the "rent free," part, SCG McDotard. I thought you were better at regurgitating cliches than that. Must be a C-.
 
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:44 am

jetero wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:

So, so much anger, let me tell you.

Given the logic and literacy skills of your "side," I'm surprised you even read the first sentence, quite honestly. good work, maybe there is hope.


Oh god no - there is no hope for me in your eyes. Which is why I am enjoying matching you melt down over nonsense. Trump literally is living in your head.


You forgot the "rent free," part, SCG McDotard. I thought you were better at regurgitating cliches than that. Must be a C-.

No I'm quite sure that you are paying for it, but I doubt that you even realize it.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:47 am

socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:
socalgeo wrote:

Oh god no - there is no hope for me in your eyes. Which is why I am enjoying matching you melt down over nonsense. Trump literally is living in your head.


You forgot the "rent free," part, SCG McDotard. I thought you were better at regurgitating cliches than that. Must be a C-.

No I'm quite sure that you are paying for it, but I doubt that you even realize it.


Please pray for me, SCG.
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:53 am

socalgeo wrote:
seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
I came as close to loving Mr. Obama as I have to loving any President since Franklin Roosevelt (I was too young to "love him" as a leader or politically). Mr. Truman was the first President I came to love and respect.

But you righties wouldn't understand this, just as you did not understand "Both Presidents were wrong, but about different subjects. They are not equivalents."


So "here is my opinion" is the same or worse than "FIRE THEM ALL!!!"

You righties are really.... I just don't have the words for it.

You righties also believe with ever fiber of your being that it is not disrespectful those jacked up pick-up trucks spewing exhaust onto a fluttering American flag in the bed or that people can protest their religious freedom at work but sport figures should not ever protest killing of unarmed people at work.


Holy smokes you really have gotten yourself all lathered up. Wow! Let me get this straight - my pickup truck flying an American flag is disrespectful to somebody? Like people who hate America? Are you offended by the American flag or the US national anthem?


You are okay with burning the flag as a protest?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
NoTime
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:06 am

seb146 wrote:
Your assertions are much too simplistic. Where are the citation to back up your claim that 13% of the population commits 50% of murders?


jetero wrote:
So you're blaming an entire racial group for half of the murders in the U.S.


I'm sure you guys have heard this before, but the "Facts don't care about your Feelings." The info is freely available in many places, including the FBI.

Here's the chart from 2016 - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... able-3.xls

Here's the chart from 2013 - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... r_2013.xls

The other years are all freely available, so feel free to peruse at your leisure. You might find a year in which the numbers change slightly, but the fact remains that the black community (which is roughly 13 percent of the US population) are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year.

BobPatterson wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Unjustified killings of black men, by police, is very rare.

Would you please provide a source for statistics that demonstrate or support your claim?

I have been able to find a statistical source for "unjustified shootings".


The info is freely available, from reputable sources, online. But, as a starter, there's this article from the National Review, which references (and links to) numbers compiled from the Washington Post. It states:

Let’s start with the question of fatal violence. Last year, according to the Washington Post’s tally, just 16 unarmed black men, out of a population of more than 20 million, were killed by the police. The year before, the number was 36. These figures are likely close to the number of black men struck by lightning in a given year, considering that happens to about 300 Americans annually and black men are 7 percent of the population. And they include cases where the shooting was justified, even if the person killed was unarmed.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... tually-say


So, from the start, we can say that there were less than 16 unjustified shootings, by police, of unarmed black men last year. Were there cases of unjustified shootings of armed black men? Sure, probably a few. But you can clearly see that the numbers are far, far lower than the media and the left want you to believe. So, let's not pretend that there is an epidemic. In fact, that many murders happen during a typical week in Chicago. If the left and BLM and others are concerned with saving innocent black men, their attention is completely and utterly on the wrong cause.

jetero wrote:
Your comment is simply disgusting.


Once again, the facts don't care about your feelings.

jetero wrote:
Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of the VAST MAJORITY of black Americans who have not come anywhere close to committing any murders, those who have stable families, etc. and ask yourself how they would feel about your paternalistic comment?


I honestly don't care how they feel about me stating FACTS. But, if they were to get upset, I guess it might be something like I would feel if I believed it when the various members of the black community have railed about my supposed white privilege and my supposed racist beliefs.

jetero wrote:
*thousands of raging screeches*


Look, buddy, I'm being completely honest when I say that I can appreciate your passion for your cause - regardless of how misplaced I think it is. But your response is so full of strawmen and completely unfounded assumptions about me that I can't bother myself to read the whole thing. Based on the bit that I did read, you seem to have created a vicious conservative boogeyman in your mind. But, that's not me. So feel free to rail and rage, if that's a cathartic exercise for you. But please don't expect me rebut each and every line.

To reiterate what I posted earlier, the fools taking a knee are certainly free to do so. Just as I'm free to think they are complete morons for doing so.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:11 am

NoTime wrote:
You might find a year in which the numbers change slightly, but the fact remains that the black community (which is roughly 13 percent of the US population) are responsible for nearly 50% of the murders in our country each year.


That is NOT a fact, and if you don't see why it is not, then I don't know what to tell you. Murderers are responsible for murders, not communities. If you want to cite demographics, well at least remove your judgment and your indictment of an entire race.

NoTime wrote:
jetero wrote:
*thousands of raging screeches*


Look, buddy, I'm being completely honest when I say that I can appreciate your passion for your cause - regardless of how misplaced I think it is. But your response is so full of strawmen and completely unfounded assumptions about me that I can't bother myself to read the whole thing. Based on the bit that I did read, you seem to have created a vicious conservative boogeyman in your mind. But, that's not me. So feel free to rail and rage, if that's a cathartic exercise for you. But please don't expect me rebut each and every line.

To reiterate what I posted earlier, the fools taking a knee are certainly free to do so. Just as I'm free to think they are complete morons for doing so.


God bless you for your magnanimity and accommodation, NoTime.

I would never expect you to rebut every line anyway because I doubt you can. You believe what you believe, after all.
 
apodino
Posts: 3176
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:16 am

I have some thoughts and will probably rankle both sides on this.

1. The original reason for Kapernick's protest is legit. If you don't believe that there is a problem with innocent blacks being gunned down in this country, I have oceanfront land in New Mexico to sell you. What I have seen in some of the dashcam videos on these incidents is beyond disturbing, and no this is not always a case of cops not being obeyed. The fact that this happens and the perps are allowed to hide behind a badge is troubling. I am not on any of these juries so I don't know what evidence they have seen, but despite what I said, I still believe in our system of jurisprudence. Kapernick and every person in this country should be upset by this. I don't blame him one bit.

2. Kapernick has the right to protest. It is one of our most valuable first amendment rights as a citizen. What I think some people are upset by is the fact that they feel that his method of protest spits in the face of this country. Many people are very patriotic and are grateful for all the rights that this country gives us, and see both the anthem and the flag as symbols of that freedom we all cherish, and they see the what Kapernick is doing (who by the way admits disrespecting the flag is his intention) and that is just a spit in the face to said freedoms. That is naturally going to cause some emotions. As someone who believes in what he is protesting, I feel like there are other ways of bringing attention to this important issue than the Anthem protests. They have turned people off and when you do that it makes it very difficult to win people to your cause.

3. Our country has failed for a long time to recongnize the issues being raised here and addressing them. This is not just limited to Trump, but I also hold Obama and Bush responsible as well for not dealing with this. I thought Bill Clinton was the last president that really did a good job in dealing with this issue, and I feel that the Clinton years were the time in my life we were most united as a nation aside from the 9-11 aftermath. This is also on all of us as well. I do admit as a Caucasian there are times when seeing a black man on the street makes me cringe with fear, and I hate that about myself and I have been trying to fix that about me. There is something in my subconscious at work here and I hate that.

4. One of the bedrocks of conservatism, or so I thought, is that private businesses should be left alone to run their business how they see fit with minimal interference from the government. If conservatives believe this as I do, how in the world can they condone what Trump said? I sure as heck do not. I know Trump as a right to say it, but it his not his place as President to tell 32 NFL Owners how to run their football teams nor is it his place to tell Roger Godell how to run the NFL. Trump doubling down today on his remarks really scares me as a believer in limited government.

5. While I don't believe anyone intended to disrespect the flag with the demonstrations this week, unfortunately it was seen as such by a good chunk of the NFL's fan base. Many of these people are Trump supporters and make up his base. Sadly as much I hate to say this, this issue helps Trump politically as most of his base is in flyover country, and this is the part of the country where most of the people are tuning out the NFL over this issue. Joe Manchin, a Democratic Senator up for relection in a Trump State, actually came out against the NFL today on this issue.

6. Not political, but to the NFL, if you have no issues with these protests, then cut the crap with the other stuff like guys wearing shoes to honor a fallen teammate, or trying to raise awareness for a good cause, or any non political stuff.

7. Lastly, the cancelled Sunday Ticket subscriptions and the tune outs by people over this are not what the NFL needs in a year when the attendance in LA is atrocious for wanting to be back there so bad, and with the NFL dealing with the entire CTE issue.
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 3385
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:29 am

NoTime wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Unjustified killings of black men, by police, is very rare.

Would you please provide a source for statistics that demonstrate or support your claim?

I have been able to find a statistical source for "unjustified shootings".


The info is freely available, from reputable sources, online. But, as a starter, there's this article from the National Review, which references (and links to) numbers compiled from the Washington Post. It states:

Let’s start with the question of fatal violence. Last year, according to the Washington Post’s tally, just 16 unarmed black men, out of a population of more than 20 million, were killed by the police. The year before, the number was 36. These figures are likely close to the number of black men struck by lightning in a given year, considering that happens to about 300 Americans annually and black men are 7 percent of the population. And they include cases where the shooting was justified, even if the person killed was unarmed.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... tually-say


So, from the start, we can say that there were less than 16 unjustified shootings, by police, of unarmed black men last year. Were there cases of unjustified shootings of armed black men? Sure, probably a few. But you can clearly see that the numbers are far, far lower than the media and the left want you to believe. So, let's not pretend that there is an epidemic. In fact, that many murders happen during a typical week in Chicago. If the left and BLM and others are concerned with saving innocent black men, their attention is completely and utterly on the wrong cause.

Thanks for your response. Very interesting info.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:36 am

seb146 wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So "here is my opinion" is the same or worse than "FIRE THEM ALL!!!"

You righties are really.... I just don't have the words for it.

You righties also believe with ever fiber of your being that it is not disrespectful those jacked up pick-up trucks spewing exhaust onto a fluttering American flag in the bed or that people can protest their religious freedom at work but sport figures should not ever protest killing of unarmed people at work.


Holy smokes you really have gotten yourself all lathered up. Wow! Let me get this straight - my pickup truck flying an American flag is disrespectful to somebody? Like people who hate America? Are you offended by the American flag or the US national anthem?


You are okay with burning the flag as a protest?

It makes my blood boil when I see someone burning an American flag. But I would fight anyone trying to stop it if the protester is being safe about it. I believe in free speech 100%. But I don't have to watch it if it offends me. That is why I cancelled my cable tv subscriptions yesterday. I think these kneelers have every right to call the police pigs, as Colin Kapernik has done. The NFL has a choice as to whether they will allow that speech as part of their entertainment business. The NFL chooses to support protesting against the police and against America.

No more NFL for me.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:46 am

jetero wrote:
Well color me surprised.

The Cowboys--Jerry Jones included (!)--took a knee.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnati ... nal-anthem


I too was surprised. And, I think their show of solidarity before the National Anthem was appropriate. :checkmark:
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
coolian2
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:46 am

socalgeo wrote:
But I don't have to watch it if it offends me. That is why I cancelled my cable tv subscriptions yesterday.

Needed your safe space, huh?
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WarRI1
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:47 am

Anyone on here remember the Vietnam era ?Now there was disrespect, that took many years to overcome. This is child's play and very non-violent. They have a right to protest, so do I and you folks. Do not like it, do not watch football.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:50 am

jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
In case this hasn't yet been covered....

THIS IS RICH !!

The NFL rule book specifically requires both teams appear on the field for the playing of the anthem, standing, remaining quiet, and holding their helmets in their left hands. Failure to do so can result in fines, suspensions, and the loss of draft picks.

The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual:


The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

But, Comish Roger Goodell, will and can selectively enforce this rule (if he perceives it to be racist). :boggled:

https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-go ... ng-players


Totes RICH. Also untrue. But don't let that stop you or your crowd of "textualists" and "originalists" who get news from the Facebook Times.

http://www.snopes.com/must-nfl-players-stand/

D- (IRECT) F? (LIGHT)


Well, I admit I was snookered by that report. I was sort of wondering why more people weren't mentioning it. But I just didn't happen to have a copy of the NFL Rulebook at my side. :boggled:
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:54 am

coolian2 wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
But I don't have to watch it if it offends me. That is why I cancelled my cable tv subscriptions yesterday.

Needed your safe space, huh?


What a surprise, more insults from the left. As well as the usual cherry picking from my post to fit your narrative. Adds up to a waste of space and your time.

Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?
 
coolian2
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:59 am

socalgeo wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
But I don't have to watch it if it offends me. That is why I cancelled my cable tv subscriptions yesterday.

Needed your safe space, huh?


What a surprise, more insults from the left. As well as the usual cherry picking from my post to fit your narrative. Adds up to a waste of space and your time.

Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?

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BobPatterson
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:59 am

socalgeo wrote:
Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?

In play here, as in?

1. This forum?

2. Sports venues?

3. The nation (USA)?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Francoflier
Posts: 4263
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:16 am

socalgeo wrote:
Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?


Please enlighten us.

It would be nice to hear a Trump aficionado write something other that "but Obama!" and "but Hillary!" to defend Trump's actions and words.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4254
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:23 am

The funny thing about the asswipes protesting is, if Trump hadn't been clobbered by government protection of the NFL racket, they would have a shot at a job that did not cap their earnings potential with ridiculous salary caps that only benefit billionaire team owners.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:35 am

BobPatterson wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?

In play here, as in?

1. This forum?

2. Sports venues?

3. The nation (USA)?



Bob - With the subject of the thread, with the reactions to people protesting the national anthem, with the reactions to President Trump's speach.

The reality is that over 60% of the American public agree with President Trump - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/t ... ds-1043213

The reaction by the NFL and it's players this weekend has transformed mild irritation on the part of many of these over 60% of Americans into white hot anger. The NFL jumped the shark. I don't know if this will translate into lower revenues for the NFL (I think the NFL has BIG problems now) or if it will blow over, but the narrative has now transformed into something different.

A majority of Americans now know that in the NFL a decorated Army Ranger will have to apologize for standing at attention for the Star Spangled Banner. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/stee ... 1709250175

While Colin Kapernik was allowed to wear socks with police as pigs on them. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/coli ... s-on-them/

And, the Dallas Cowboys were prohibited from commemorating the murders of the 5 Dallas police men last year at a Black Lives Matter march. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl- ... ar-season/

The NFL is on the wrong side of history on this.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:50 am

socalgeo wrote:
The reality is that over 60% of the American public agree with President Trump - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/t ... ds-1043213


Looks like you won SCG! Congrats!

socalgeo wrote:
The NFL is on the wrong side of history on this.


Hot damn! More senseless nationalistic indoctrination and bullying to come!
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 3385
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:13 am

socalgeo wrote:
Bob - With the subject of the thread, with the reactions to people protesting the national anthem, with the reactions to President Trump's speach.

The reality is that over 60% of the American public agree with President Trump - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/t ... ds-1043213

The NFL is on the wrong side of history on this.

I disagree.

First, no one is protesting the national anthem, nor are they protesting the flag. They are using a particular venue to protest hypocrisy in America over blatant racial discrimination throughout our society.

We really will have to wait a while to see how the American public views the situation. Those who attend NFL games are not surrogates for the country. NFL product sales and ad revenues might be a better gauge. We'll see.

The NFL is not wrong to support 70% of the players (I think the actual percentage of players supporting this is much larger).
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:22 am

Francoflier wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?


Please enlighten us.

It would be nice to hear a Trump aficionado write something other that "but Obama!" and "but Hillary!" to defend Trump's actions and words.


Trump won this particular battle in the culture war with the left the moment he uttered those words in Alabama. Why? Because he has a data and analytics team that is WORLD CLASS. And I'm sure that those words were spoken because his data team told him that they would resonate with the majority of the American public. In hindsight, it seems kind of an obvious thing, but whatever. Don't believe me? You really believe that BS about Russia hacking Wisconsin and turning votes for him? LOL - His data team recognized that enough of the voters in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were ready to turn to him, if he went there and reached out to them. He Did, He Won. Google it.

So, Trump's team identified that the majority of Americans are unhappy with the lack of respect for America in the NFL (this is not about race!), and that the vast majority of his voters were of the same opinion. They knew that the left is so out of control against him, that they would react quickly and condemn him. The resulting protest saw the players in London stand for God Save the Queen and kneel for the Star Spangled Banner, along with many other similar actions by other teams.

The left has now pitted themselves against the majority of the country - imagine that. It has now gotten to this narrative - The Democrats hate America. The Trumptards (as you call them) love America. It happened over a weekend.

The protesters, the Democrats, and the Left will never admit that they are on the wrong side of this, because they have made it personal about Trump. They will fight this all the way until the Superbowl. And then the NBA season with start with those players doing their protests against America, as Trump will tweet. All the way until November. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that there is an election in November, and the side that hates America typically looses elections in America.

Now imagine this, what do you think will happen in the 2018 elections if enough Trump supporters go along with his plan to boycott the NFL and actually make them lose money or force them to change, or better yet, fold? What will they do to the never-Trumpers in the Republican party if they are willing to destroy something they loved in the NFL?

Time will tell if this bears out, but I think that Trump is showing the country that his base is actually something to worry about, as long as he is pushing what THEY care about.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:28 am

socalgeo wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?


Please enlighten us.

It would be nice to hear a Trump aficionado write something other that "but Obama!" and "but Hillary!" to defend Trump's actions and words.


Trump won this particular battle in the culture war with the left the moment he uttered those words in Alabama. Why? Because he has a data and analytics team that is WORLD CLASS. And I'm sure that those words were spoken because his data team told him that they would resonate with the majority of the American public. In hindsight, it seems kind of an obvious thing, but whatever. Don't believe me? You really believe that BS about Russia hacking Wisconsin and turning votes for him? LOL - His data team recognized that enough of the voters in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania were ready to turn to him, if he went there and reached out to them. He Did, He Won. Google it.

So, Trump's team identified that the majority of Americans are unhappy with the lack of respect for America in the NFL (this is not about race!), and that the vast majority of his voters were of the same opinion. They knew that the left is so out of control against him, that they would react quickly and condemn him. The resulting protest saw the players in London stand for God Save the Queen and kneel for the Star Spangled Banner, along with many other similar actions by other teams.

The left has now pitted themselves against the majority of the country - imagine that. It has now gotten to this narrative - The Democrats hate America. The Trumptards (as you call them) love America. It happened over a weekend.

The protesters, the Democrats, and the Left will never admit that they are on the wrong side of this, because they have made it personal about Trump. They will fight this all the way until the Superbowl. And then the NBA season with start with those players doing their protests against America, as Trump will tweet. All the way until November. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that there is an election in November, and the side that hates America typically looses elections in America.

Now imagine this, what do you think will happen in the 2018 elections if enough Trump supporters go along with his plan to boycott the NFL and actually make them lose money or force them to change, or better yet, fold? What will they do to the never-Trumpers in the Republican party if they are willing to destroy something they loved in the NFL?

So, in the end, Trump is showing the country that his base is actually something to worry about, as long as he is pushing what THEY care about.


Trump so smart and presidential.

(Such a long message. I thought those were no-nos.)
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15965
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 am

socalgeo wrote:
Beyond that, you really don't seem to understand the dynamics that are in play here do you?

What's to understand beyond the President pushing for people to be fired for speaking their mind, in total violation of the first amendment? And to no one's surprise, Trumpanzees don't believe the first amendment applies to black people. Simple as that.

NoTime wrote:
I'm sure you guys have heard this before, but the "Facts don't care about your Feelings."

Oh goodie! When will you be using those facts for the wall, Muslim ban, voter suppression commission, transgender army ban, literally anything that comes out of Trump's blowhole on a daily basis?

NoTime wrote:
So, from the start, we can say that there were less than 16 unjustified shootings, by police, of unarmed black men last year. Were there cases of unjustified shootings of armed black men? Sure, probably a few. But you can clearly see that the numbers are far, far lower than the media and the left want you to believe. So, let's not pretend that there is an epidemic. In fact, that many murders happen during a typical week in Chicago. If the left and BLM and others are concerned with saving innocent black men, their attention is completely and utterly on the wrong cause.

The black community has been deliberately destroyed, degraded, and marginalized since it was brought here in chains centuries ago. If you think these protests are only about police shootings, or that Chicago's south side just popped into existence all on its very own, you're missing the entire picture

socalgeo wrote:
Trump won this particular battle in the culture war with the left the moment he uttered those words in Alabama. Why? Because he has a data and analytics team that is WORLD CLASS. And I'm sure that those words were spoken because his data team told him that they would resonate with the majority of the American public.

You think this was a data driven move? Or that Trump even has the brain synapses to stay on a message, any message? LOLOLOLOLOLOL you're on drugs. :rotfl: This was a seasoned racist, riling up his racist base, in a backward racist state.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Tugger
Posts: 7052
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 am

The "NFL thing" is just another example of Trump needless stoking situation that does not need the hyper attention that a president can create. But that has been Trump for much of if not most of his life and he cannot/will not control himself.

Trump has only a few modes and his most important is to create noise and attention for himself. Even toward things that do not involve him. And basically the NFL told him to go "love" himself and butt out of their affairs. Of course Trump has no ability to be discrete and let things quiet down.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
socalgeo
Posts: 408
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Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:34 am

jetero wrote:

Trump so smart and presidential.

(Such a long message. I thought those were no-nos.)


From Dictionary.com:

presidential
[prez-i-den-shuh l]
adjective
1. of or relating to a president or presidency.
2. of the nature of a president.

Yeah, presidential.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Global Citizen Festival take a knee everyone

Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:35 am

socalgeo wrote:
jetero wrote:

Trump so smart and presidential.

(Such a long message. I thought those were no-nos.)


From Dictionary.com:

presidential
[prez-i-den-shuh l]
adjective
1. of or relating to a president or presidency.
2. of the nature of a president.

Yeah, presidential.


You so smart like Trump, too.

(Bar is so low with you guys.)
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