Well looks like Stevie Wonder is the latest one to take a knee. This time at the Global Citizen Festival in NYC. You know I am not huge USA cheerleader or flag waver. I do think we have problems. We stick our nose in too many others affairs and I am more than tired being the worlds policeman. Our cops a lot of them abuse the badge but a lot of them are good too. However, I do have a problem with mutli million dollar celebrities and athletes who seem to think they are among the disenfranchised. It is their right to take a knee I get that. It is also the right of an employer to can you or not hire you if you are deemed to be a liability to their organization or just suck as a quarterback i.e (Kaepernick). You superstars have been blessed with opportunities you would not have any where else in the world and have a better quality of life than 99% of people in this country not to mention the world even as a blind man in the case of Stevie Wonder. Even with all our faults this country is a pretty good deal if it wasn't there wouldn't be so many trying to get here. If you don't like it here there is the F'ng door don't let it hit you in the ass. I am still waiting for all the Hollywood liberals who said they were absolutely moving to Canada if Trump was elected. Well I am still waiting why are you not packing? I'll help you pack if need be.

I have never really been a fan of the right of a corporation to fire someone exercising their rights given to them by our Constitution. We also have Union contracts in force possibly.. As was said, I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say or express it. Free speech and expression. I like those ideals. We have to be careful what power we grant to those who have abused it in the past, such as corporations, politicians, police and such.

The whole thing is a mess. I've tried to listen to what Colin Kapernick (sp?) has to say, but in the end it seems like a lot of non-specific grievances that add up to a general state of anger. I've never heard any coherent set of ideas or improvements that need to be made, other than the police are bad and black people are oppressed. While I fully support these peoples right to act out by kneeling or raising their fists, I'm saddened by the protest of the Star Spangled Banner because I was raised by my parents that what makes us all Americans is our belief in the ideals that the national anthem represents - regardless of our politics or race we are Americans. I fear that the people protesting aren't actually interested in finding solutions. If they were they would take the opportunity to reach out in a more positive way.

my 2 cents FWIW

queue the haters in 5....4.....3....2....1......Bam

Pretty simple answer to all of this. I don't like Colin Kapernick, I don't like what he or his followers stand for. At the same time, I would die to protect his and everyone else's first amendment right to kneel, sit, do whatever during the national anthem.

stratosphere wrote:

However, I do have a problem with mutli million dollar celebrities and athletes who seem to think they are among the disenfranchised.

I know what you mean. Hell, one of them is even the president and he still can't stop playing the victim.

socalgeo wrote:

I've tried to listen to what Colin Kapernick (sp?) has to say, but in the end it seems like a lot of non-specific grievances that add up to a general state of anger.

Sounds a lot like one of Trump's rallies.

Yeah heaven forbid people in a place of privilege take a stand on anything. Let's let Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones decide how we should behave. Hell let's let that Cadre of Losers decide for the whole country what it means to be American.

jetero wrote:

Yeah heaven forbid people in a place of privilege take a stand on anything. Let's let Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones decide how we should behave. Hell let's let that Cadre of Losers decide for the whole country what it means to be American.

What/Who are the cadre of winners you would instead follow?

BobPatterson wrote:

jetero wrote:

Yeah heaven forbid people in a place of privilege take a stand on anything. Let's let Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones decide how we should behave. Hell let's let that Cadre of Losers decide for the whole country what it means to be American.

What/Who are the cadre of winners you would instead follow?

It doesn't have to be so binary, Bob.

jetero wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

jetero wrote:

Yeah heaven forbid people in a place of privilege take a stand on anything. Let's let Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones decide how we should behave. Hell let's let that Cadre of Losers decide for the whole country what it means to be American.

What/Who are the cadre of winners you would instead follow?

It doesn't have to be so binary, Bob.

I was hoping for real names, not 1s and 0s.

BobPatterson wrote:

jetero wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

What/Who are the cadre of winners you would instead follow?

It doesn't have to be so binary, Bob.

I was hoping for real names, not 1s and 0s.

I don't follow individuals, I follow outlets. "Newspapers of record," as the case may be. I'm sure you get the idea.

Oh, well that's OK. Which news outlets tell you what it means to be American?

BobPatterson wrote:

Oh, well that's OK. Which news outlets tell you what it means to be American?

I don't listen to any that purports to do so, Bob. That's the point.

socalgeo wrote:

queue the haters in 5....4.....3....2....1......Bam

"If people disagree with me they must be 'haters.'"

Awesome. And to think you have a grown son, yet behaving like a 12-year-old. Boy have we regressed.

(It's "cue," BTW. A "queue" is a line.)

jetero wrote:

Yeah heaven forbid people in a place of privilege take a stand on anything. Let's let Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones decide how we should behave. Hell let's let that Cadre of Losers decide for the whole country what it means to be American.

Someone's got a beef with Kaepernick and that means they're advocating letting those four wingnuts "decide how we should behave?"

Then you tell Bob "it doesn't have to be binary"...

Airstud wrote:

jetero wrote:

Yeah heaven forbid people in a place of privilege take a stand on anything. Let's let Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones decide how we should behave. Hell let's let that Cadre of Losers decide for the whole country what it means to be American.

Someone's got a beef with Kaepernick and that means they're advocating letting those four wingnuts "decide how we should behave?"

Then you tell Bob "it doesn't have to be binary"...

Pancakes are delicious.

Whatever one thinks about these athletes' actions, the one thing we can say for sure is that Trump is, as usual, making an absolute mess of it.
He is once again antagonising, dividing and generally twisting knives in sensitive wounds, all for the sake of appealing to his minority base.
He went on another ego-stroking rally deep in Trump country, where his most popular bile attack seemed to be the one on NFL players, so the first thing he did when he got back home was to unleash his newly found material onto America.

Funny enough, he once again seems to be going along racial lines here... wonder why?

The movement has now spread to baseball, and it's a White player choosing to kneel. I'm willing to bet money that Trump won't attack this person by name:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2079 ... nal-anthem

Also, given how Trump went after the whole NFL this week, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of players kneeling triples or quadruples. Additionally, I will be curious about how many from the Ravens/Jaguars game do it since that game is in London. And if they kneel for the US anthem, would they do the same for "God Save the Queen?"

LittleFokker wrote:

And if they kneel for the US anthem, would they do the same for "God Save the Queen?"

Playing the national anthem is, generally speaking, not done at sporting events in Europe. It only happens at medal ceremonies, e.g. at the end of a F1 race or when an athlete is handed a medal for winning this, that or the other. But before the game/play has started? Nope, not a chance.

B777LRF wrote:

But before the game/play has started? Nope, not a chance.

Not usually for club games, but the anthems of both teams are normally played before any rugby or football international.

The best response to this whole mess came from Detroit tight end Eric Ebron.
He tweeted:

Does anyone tell trump to stick to politics, like they tell us to stick to sports? Smh.

Who does Trump think he is to tell employers to fire their employees over them exercising their first amendment rights?
Who the hell does he think he is to refer to Colin Kaepernick and those joining him as "sons of bitches"?

He didn't really have a problem with violent neonazis disrespecting America by waving third reich and CSA flags, but how dare these uppity blacks not conform, right?

If your are a Black person, including if you are a million+ a year sports person or business executive, you face micro and macro aggressions, stomach churning fear from racism and a President who supports White Supremacy and against any challenge of it. While I would rather not see protests during the National Anthem at sporting events as I think they are counterproductive, too many victims of racism will no longer be silent and use any relatively peaceful way to bring attention to their beliefs.

B777LRF wrote:

LittleFokker wrote:

And if they kneel for the US anthem, would they do the same for "God Save the Queen?"

Playing the national anthem is, generally speaking, not done at sporting events in Europe.

It is done at the NFL games in London. Both the US and UK anthems are played.

lugie wrote:

The best response to this whole mess came from Detroit tight end Eric Ebron.
He tweeted:

Does anyone tell trump to stick to politics, like they tell us to stick to sports? Smh.

Who does Trump think he is to tell employers to fire their employees over them exercising their first amendment rights?
Who the hell does he think he is to refer to Colin Kaepernick and those joining him as "sons of bitches"?

He didn't really have a problem with violent neonazis disrespecting America by waving third reich and CSA flags, but how dare these uppity blacks not conform, right?

Gotta love Colin Kaepernick's mom dragging of Trump where she, as you did, noted he used harsher language to condemn these athletes with legitimate grievances than he did to condemn Nazis and White Supremaciststs. She then called herself a "proud bitch." Hahaha!

Mir wrote:

B777LRF wrote:

LittleFokker wrote:

And if they kneel for the US anthem, would they do the same for "God Save the Queen?"

Playing the national anthem is, generally speaking, not done at sporting events in Europe.

It is done at the NFL games in London. Both the US and UK anthems are played.

Hence the caveat 'generally speaking'

Bully Bozo is at it again this AM, encouraging people to boycott the NFL. Surely lots of his mindless, blind supporters will heed his call. (You know those same supporters who are obsessed about freedom of speech.)

Meanwhile, across the pond

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 4480e6a0d9

This could turn into a very interesting situation, in one corner you have Trump, in the other a few hundred multi millionaires.

The big difference is, those multi millionaires happen to have the ear of the largest block of people who didn't bother to vote in the last election, this could turn very nasty for the Republicans in the 2018 elections if these guys decide to get motivated against Trump.

There have been several memes about this whole "hate people who take a knee" story. One of them shows what people at home do while the National Anthem is playing (sitting on the couch drinking beer) and the other shows what people who hate the "take a knee during the National Anthem people" wear: the flag.

What is wrong with sports and entertainment people using their positions to hold a mirror up to the American people? To show what we really want? To tell cops to stop killing unarmed Black people? That health care should not be for the elite only? That people are working way too damn hard for way too damn little? Why is it such a bad thing for Kimmell and Kapaernick and Ashley Judd and Cher and Kathy Griffin and so forth to mansplain that to the right? We never hear any whines about "Hollywood elites" when things like this happen:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... t-20070824

I wonder why?

Pittsburgh Steelers have elected to remain in the locker room during National Anthem.

seb146 wrote:

There have been several memes about this whole "hate people who take a knee" story. One of them shows what people at home do while the National Anthem is playing (sitting on the couch drinking beer) and the other shows what people who hate the "take a knee during the National Anthem people" wear: the flag.

What is wrong with sports and entertainment people using their positions to hold a mirror up to the American people? To show what we really want? To tell cops to stop killing unarmed Black people? That health care should not be for the elite only? That people are working way too damn hard for way too damn little? Why is it such a bad thing for Kimmell and Kapaernick and Ashley Judd and Cher and Kathy Griffin and so forth to mansplain that to the right? We never hear any whines about "Hollywood elites" when things like this happen:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... t-20070824

I wonder why?

Oh we know why because the vast, vast majority of them side with Democratic policies. We all know if the shoe were on the other foot it'd be a different story. See Nugent, Ted, Woods, James, Rock, Kid and any other B-Lister who Trump (the epitome of a wannabe B-Lister) can count as a supporter.

Jaguars owner Shahid Khan joined his players, locking arms with them, as they knelt during the anthem. I don't think he'll be following Trump's advice to fire players that kneel.

I see the OP is triggered yet again. Maybe the Trump presidency is a boon for liberals after all. We get to enjoy these so called tough conservatives get triggered faster than lightning.

Oh, what's in store for us when Christmas rolls around. Being triggered because someone said "Happy Holidays" and Starbucks decided to have solid color cups (in all colors to represent diversity). I can't wait!

Alias1024 wrote:

Jaguars owner Shahid Khan joined his players, locking arms with them, as they knelt during the anthem. I don't think he'll be following Trump's advice to fire players that kneel.

Sounds like a Muslim to me.

In a city with a Muslim mayor.

Trump will surely be tweeting soon about a conspiracy.

einsteinboricua wrote:

I see the OP is triggered yet again. Maybe the Trump presidency is a boon for liberals after all. We get to enjoy these so called tough conservatives get triggered faster than lightning.

Oh, what's in store for us when Christmas rolls around. Being triggered because someone said "Happy Holidays" and Starbucks decided to have solid color cups (in all colors to represent diversity). I can't wait!

They're all for free speech, though. Don't forget.

And like all good Republicans, they're absolutely for repeated blatant interference by the US government with the free enterprise system.

Blacks who were never slaves are fighting whites who were never Nazis over a Confederate statue erected by southern Democrats because now Democrats can't stand their own history anymore. Don't know about others but I'm getting pretty tired of this petty crap from a bunch of over paid whinny little prima donnas. The NFL is a criminal organization and should be cut down just little. I'll bet viewership falls significantly this year. Trump needs to button his lip as well.

Play ball or cut bait but don't waste my time with your petty asinine bitching.

BravoOne wrote:

Blacks who were never slaves are fighting whites who were never Nazis over a Confederate statue erected by southern Democrats because now Democrats can't stand their own history anymore. Don't know about others but I'm getting pretty tired of this petty crap from a bunch of over paid whinny little prima donnas. The NFL is a criminal organization and should be cut down just little.

Great synopsis. You must've really stretched out your brain fibers for that one.

Jetero you are pathetic. I'm putting you on my ignore list as we don't take the race card or whinning where I come form.

Good day kid

Don't take "whinning" and definitely not good at "winning."

You a Perennial C- student, BravoOne? Still suffering a hangover from the effects?

Some people really do go out of their way to be offended.

zkojq wrote:

Some people really do go out of their way to be offended.

While calling the other "side" "snowflakes."

18 US Code §227

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—

(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—

(1) a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;
(2) an employee of either House of Congress; or
(3) the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227

how did that song go again?
...LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP,...

lugie wrote:

18 US Code §227

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—

(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—

(1) a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;
(2) an employee of either House of Congress; or
(3) the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227

how did that song go again?
...LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP, LOCK HIM UP,...

There's no evidence, no evidence. Total witch hunt. Alex Jones told me so!

Plus ... but Hillary ... HILLARY!!!!!!!!

Surprise! Trump and his supporters are really bloody racist part #271,628,127. As someone said ‘I’d take a knee with Colin any day before standing with Trump.’

BravoOne wrote:

Blacks who were never slaves are fighting whites who were never Nazis over a Confederate statue erected by southern Democrats because now Democrats can't stand their own history anymore. Don't know about others but I'm getting pretty tired of this petty crap from a bunch of over paid whinny little prima donnas. The NFL is a criminal organization and should be cut down just little. I'll bet viewership falls significantly this year. Trump needs to button his lip as well.

Play ball or cut bait but don't waste my time with your petty asinine bitching.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”
But congrats on removing all doubt in one sentence

I'm very curious to see how this plays out. The NFL fanbase is predominately white, male and conservative... and in the end, after all the platitudes, the NFL is a business that needs to make money. By letting this issue spiral out of control, they are alienating a large segment of their customer base. And, despite all the cheering coming from the left (especially the social justice left), I don't think the NFL will be able to make up their loss in viewership with the coastal cheese-eaters who, up until a few days ago, probably scoffed at football as a violent sport for the uncouth masses.

In all honesty, I couldn't care less what perceived grievances Kaepernick and his ilk are trying to protest. They certainly have the right to act foolish. I just wish we didn't have to see this ridiculous culture war in every aspect of our lives. (And I wish our President would pick and choose his battles a little more carefully.)

In the end, I think the league (and especially Goodell) are going to be the ones paying the price for this nonsense, and it serves them right.

NoTime wrote:

I'm very curious to see how this plays out. The NFL fanbase is predominately white, male and conservative... and in the end, after all the platitudes, the NFL is a business that needs to make money. By letting this issue spiral out of control, they are alienating a large segment of their customer base. And, despite all the cheering coming from the left (especially the social justice left), I don't think the NFL will be able to make up their loss in viewership with the coastal cheese-eaters who, up until a few days ago, probably scoffed at football as a violent sport for the uncouth masses.

In all honesty, I couldn't care less what perceived grievances Kaepernick and his ilk are trying to protest. They certainly have the right to act foolish. I just wish we didn't have to see this ridiculous culture war in every aspect of our lives. (And I wish our President would pick and choose his battles a little more carefully.)

In the end, I think the league (and especially Goodell) are going to be the ones paying the price for this nonsense, and it serves them right.

I think that most Americans as well as most sports fans will see things differently than you.

Sports, whether professional or amateur, are not opportunities for sweeping problems under a rug.

Perhaps you are not old enough to remember that happy day when Jackie Robinson first appeared at Ebbetts Field, or the many other days when fine athletes of color took their rightful places on college and professional teams. It wasn't so long ago.

Or when Mohamad Ali refused to fight the white man's wars while his people were not accorded full opportunity to realize the American dream. Jackie Robinson wore our nation's uniform but had to fight dearly for his rights, and for those with whom he served.

There are still deep problems in our society, and they will not be addressed fully so long as you, and others who think as you do, will not squarely face them and do something about them.

No suppression of free speech, on or off the field.

Lift every heart and sing.............

BobPatterson wrote:

I think that most Americans as well as most sports fans will see things differently than you.

Well, we should have our answer relatively soon. I think this weekend's ratings might spike a bit, as people tuned in to see how the players would react. But, within a few weeks, we will know whether "most Americans" and "most sports fans" see things differently - based upon how the ratings look.

Sports, whether professional or amateur, are not opportunities for sweeping problems under a rug.

Sports, whether professional or amateur, are opportunities to escape this type of nonsense. Especially in this day and age, when everything else is saturated with politics. If I wanted to see social justice protests, I'd change the channel to MSNBC or head over to the local university.

And, please, don't compare this garbage to Robinson. They are as different as night and day. The only "deep problems" in our society are cultural ones... and no amount of kneeling is going to fix them.

"It's all about sports" he says in the thread opened to whine about Stevie Wonder.

Or is this a different Stevie Wonder? Which position does he play?

I found this interesting after a meme on a left wing site

http://www.snopes.com/nfl-sideline-anthem/

For what it's worth...

coolian2 wrote:

"It's all about sports" he says in the thread opened to whine about Stevie Wonder.

Or is this a different Stevie Wonder? Which position does he play?

Stevie plays the position of joining the others who feel the need to make a statement. You want to make a statement thats fine be prepared for any consequences