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Dano1977
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On this day 13th August 1940.

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:23 am

After the embarrassment of the Dunkirk evacuation, where the BEF had to rescued from the beaches of Dunkirk by a flotilla of civilian sailing ships and working boats. The Germans commenced Adlertag.

Luftwaffe directive No 17 "For the conduct of air and naval warfare against England" "The German Air force is to overpower the English Air Force with all the forces at it's command. in the shortest time possible. The attacks are to be directed primarily against their flying units, their ground installations"

The task was to render the RAF impotent, so Operation Sea lion (The invasion of England) could begin. The hope was that once the RAF was rendered impotent, a negotiated peace could be negotiated, if not, The Luftwaffe was to interdict the Royal Navy Home Fleet to stop it from running interference on the German Landings.

Also not forgetting, British Intelligence had a slight lead over the Luftwaffe, with the breaking of the Enigma machine and poor signals discipline from the Luftwaffe allowed easy access to German communications traffic.

It also should be recognised the oversight of the RAF by Hugh Dowding. Keith Park and Charles Portal.

The keystone of the British defence was the complex infrastructure of detection, command, and control that ran the battle. I.E. Radar and the Royal Observer Corp.


If it was not for a change in tactics from bombing airfields and radar installations and targeting London, It would of been a different outcome
Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
 
Olddog
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Re: On this day 13th August 1940.

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:30 am

Dano1977 wrote:
The keystone of the British defence.


The keystone of the British defence was to be an island. Why do you think nazi forces stopped in Dunkerque? Hard to make tanks swim maybe?
 
Airstud
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Re: On this day 13th August 1940.

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:01 am

Olddog wrote:
Dano1977 wrote:
The keystone of the British defence.


The keystone of the British defence was to be an island. Why do you think nazi forces stopped in Dunkerque? Hard to make tanks swim maybe?


Oh, right I forgot; Germany didn't have any planes or submarines...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: On this day 13th August 1940.

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:32 am

Olddog wrote:
Dano1977 wrote:
The keystone of the British defence.


The keystone of the British defence was to be an island. Why do you think nazi forces stopped in Dunkerque? Hard to make tanks swim maybe?


I also thought it was Goerings insistence to the Jumped up Corporal to let the Luftwaffe finish off the BEF at Dunkirk

An island isn't much defence to air attacks. Ask the people of Hawaii, Malta or Tokyo.
Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
 
GDB
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Re: On this day 13th August 1940.

Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:16 am

Though the 'Little Ships' were brave and rescued many, most of those evacuated were by Destroyers and other Naval vessels such as Minesweepers, they suffered heavy losses doing it and the civil vessels became more important once the port facilities had been flattened.

I've never brought into this 'Operation Sealion' either, nor did much of the German High Command. The Navy knew it had no amphibious vessels, (so river barges were converted to be be towed across at night, max speed 2 knots and no swell).
While modern, their Navy was small compared to the RN's and had taken losses in Norway they had yet to recover from, so escorts would have been an issue.

No doubt Goering would have claimed his Luftwaffe would destroy any British fleet powering down to destroy any invasion force but they had failed to do this at Dunkirk, under for them, much more favorable conditions. (The first time Spitfires were used in any numbers was covering the evacuation, German air losses were rather heavy so despite the impression many on the beaches had of the RAF not being there, they were, further inland interdicting the air attacks, at least by enough to prevent Goering actually delivering on his promise).

It does seem likely that the Panzers halted as Goering promised Hitler that his Luftwaffe could alone finish the job. Hitler was prone to take his dubious advice because unlike the army, the Luftwaffe was something created under his regime so in his mind, loyal. None of those Prussian Officer Class types at the top of the army, who he never really trusted, despite the victories they gave him.

While it's true that the BEF left most of it's equipment behind, that was in late May/early June, by September the situation was rather different. The UK had organised war production much more effectively than Germany, not only that, an array of defences on beaches and inland were ready, even the Home Guard had weapons by then!

The Germany Army and Navy could not agree on an invasion plan, Hitler was not about to force the issue. Some reckon this was because he was already thinking of going East, which might well be the case but more likely he saw the Luftwaffe gaining air supremacy over at least Southern England, coupled with the U-Boat campaign, as a way of getting Britain to sue for peace, forcing Churchill from office.

Despite the real damage done on air defence targets, only one airfield, in Essex, was put out of action for more than a few days, likewise radar stations were usually soon repaired and there was a degree of overlapping coverage.

None of this means the Battle Of Britain was not vital, just that the invasion plans were not realistic, even if 11 Group had been taken out of the fight, 12 Group normally covering the midlands, still was.
Invasion or not, the strategic intention was still the same, to get Britain out of the war. That was something they might well have managed to do, the RAF stopped them.
In that, the Luftwaffe failed, Goering's inept leadership being a factor.

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