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BobPatterson
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My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:43 am

Excerpt from "The Conscience of a Conservative" by Jeff Flake, Republican senator from Arizona.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ump-215442

I've read the book. It's not as good as the one by Senator Barry Goldwater (1960) by the same title.

But it's still pretty good.

One problem is that Mr. Flake lost his conscience when he left it to the other Senator from Arizona, John McCain, to block the terrible Republican bill on health care.

Has anyone else read the book?
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DocLightning
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:38 pm

Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.
-Doc Lightning-

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KLDC10
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:12 pm

Barry Goldwater's book was ghostwritten and merely published under his name. How much of Senator Flake's book has actually been written by him? Flake has a tough re-election campaign coming up and is facing a strong Primary challenge from Kelli Ward. Recent polling (https://perma.cc/NX66-BY95) has Ward leading, though clearly it is too early to predict which way the race will go.

You raise a good point about the healthcare bill. It is not merely enough to write a book outlining the theory of standing up for principled Conservatism, one must actually be willing to stand up and do so. I'll keep following Flake's activities in the Senate, but so far his words seem hollow. I'm not sure that his actions in the Senate have so far been anything other than mainstream - there's very little to differentiate him from, say, Senator Rubio of Florida. I think this book is an attempt to raise his profile, but I'm sorry, I just don't think he stands out from other Republican Senators.

Since DocLightning mentioned the DNC, I'll quickly address that too: First of all, I'm glad that party members are willing to welcome diversity of opinion. However, the message from senior party figures like Tom Perez has often been at odds not only with this idea, but with other members of the party. See: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04 ... -life.html
If the DNC truly does welcome diversity of opinion, then the Party Chairman shouldn't be making statements like that. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't sensible, moderate Democrats, far from it, but I am illustrating how, just as the GOP has moved to the right and begun to resemble what used to be the outer edges of the party, so too has the DNC moved to the left and begun to resemble the outer fringes of their party.

Let's take a look at a wedge issue like gay marriage for example. When you start to break that down it has something for everyone. Liberals can claim obviously claim victory, but so too can small government conservatives. Does the government actually need to define marriage? No. Do you have to personally agree with something to support someone else's right to do it? No. That's why Kentucky Senator Rand Paul supports the legalization of marijuana, but wouldn't use it himself.

Right now, political discourse is so coarse that whosoever shouts the loudest shall be declared the victor by default and even the simplest thing cannot get done. Take infrastructure investment as an example. The GOP favors privately-led investment, while the DNC favors direct government investment. Thus: No deal. I mean, come on! Do a bit of both! There are areas which clearly would benefit from privately-led investment (where the investors will see a return), but there are also areas which aren't at all attractive to investors and which would fail to benefit from an entirely privately-led infrastructure package. Infrastructure could be a big bipartisan win, but everybody hates everybody else, so the same old gridlock persists.

If the politicians don't get along, then that permeates the rest of American society. People start to see their neighbors not as friends, but as Republicans or Democrats. There's a distrust which begins in Washington and then spreads to the rest of society. I have plenty of liberal friends - we quite often respectfully discuss politics with one another, but we don't end up throwing the deck chairs at one another. Five minutes after our discussion, we can be found sharing a beer round the campfire or barbecue, not "unfriending" each other on "the Facebook" and wondering why on earth we ever thought it would be a good idea to be friends in the first place. But all too often, I hear about people ending friendships because of political views. It's really quite sad.
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Tugger
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.

You want change the Republican party? Have EVERY Democrat register as Republican and vote. This will affect the party more than anything else. But for some reason people cannot do that because "but I am a Democrat!" (or Republican). Its a freaking word. And quite frankly one that does not truly define people because everyone has some level of difference or disagreement with the party they register with.

Likely in Bob's case, if he were to register as a Democrat, he might very well vote for the most "conservative" democrat candidate. And you Doc, if yuo voted Republican, I am fairly certain your would vote for the most liberal Republican (whoever most matched with your desires for legislative actions)

I think the greatest thing would be if everyone would begin to cross register, because it would diminish the power of the extremes, the fringe 2%.

Tugg
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usflyer msp
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.


I'm not so sure about that anymore. The Berniecrat wing of the democrats is getting almost as bad as the Tea Party. In fact, they might actually be worse. At least the Tea Party won elections, the Berniecrat wing has accomplished bupkus except for losing elections and bitching about everyone else...

Can you tell I am not a fan?! ;)
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:48 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.

The words "My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump" are by the author of the book, Senator Flake of Snowflake, Arizona.

However, I am still registered as a Republican in Prince George's County, Maryland. It simply is not worth the time and effort to change my registration. Plus, I can sometimes use this little fact to annoy a pompous Democrat.

I've told my story before, no need to repeat it. But the last time I voted for a Republican for Federal Office (except for President) was in the case of Lawrence Hogan, late father of our present Governor. Mr. Hogan was prominent among Republicans who voted to impeach President Nixon.

I really have little use or respect for party politics. Our major parties do not have clean skirts, and the third...fourth...nth parties are mostly fruitcakes.

Color me independent.

Thanks for the invitation.

Edited to insert: (except for President)
Last edited by BobPatterson on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tugger
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:59 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
I really have little use or respect for party politics. Our major parties do not have clean skirts, and the third...fourth...nth parties are mostly fruitcakes.

Color me independent..

I think this is the most important point: Being registered to a party is not, cannot be, SHOULD NOT be your sole identity. It does not mean you love everything about it. A political party cannot "speak for you", only you do that. You must speak up for things you disagree with and support the things you approve, regardless of party.

I like the RHINO.... It has kind of become a badge for me that says I think for myself. That I speak up about what I disagree with.

Tugg
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BobPatterson
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:04 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Barry Goldwater's book was ghostwritten and merely published under his name.

I was fairly close to the writings of Senator Goldwater in the period 1959-1963. While he indeed used speech writers to polish his prose (in the book, articles and speeches), the ideas that he expressed were his own.

KLDC10 wrote:
Does the government actually need to define marriage?

Yes, it must, so long as social benefits (taxes, other laws) are prescribed by marital status. Those laws may of course be modified to accommodate new "norms"
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rfields5421
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:54 pm

One reason (of the few) I like being a Texas resident is we do not register by party. On primary Election Day I can vote in which party primary I want.

Marriage

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 am

rfields5421 wrote:
No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Agreed, but: 1) That's utterly impractical because nobody will actually go for it even though 2) all you're doing is changing the name of marriage, and really, is that worth all that trouble?

As for "government needs to get out of the marriage business," that's the biggest load of horse dung ever. When we got married, we were able to file taxes jointly. If one of us dies, the other gets all benefits and community property automatically without having to set up an entire set of documents with an attorney. I can pay his bills and he can pay mine. If he's incapicated, I get automatic power of attorney and if he's in the hospital I am guaranteed the right to visit him. The list of legal consequences and benefits goes on and on and on. And so, as a result, our lives got so much easier and convenient. It cut the amount of bureaucracy and paperwork in our life by almost two thirds and that left me fuming.

This?? This is what they were trying so desperately to keep from us? This is this "sanctity" that they keep throwing around? Tax forms and free additional driver on a rental car and a tax break on health insurance? How petty can you get?

And so call it "marriage" or "domestic partnership" or "galooga balooga," it's just a name.

And frankly, this was all settled two years ago and if you still have a problem with it, it's time to move on.
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LMP737
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:47 am

rfields5421 wrote:

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Do you got to a church or the local county office for a marriage license?
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tommy1808
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:35 am

LMP737 wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Do you got to a church or the local county office for a marriage license?


Exactly, churches need to get out of the marriage business, they high jacked it after all. ...

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
LittleFokker
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:44 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
One reason (of the few) I like being a Texas resident is we do not register by party. On primary Election Day I can vote in which party primary I want.

Marriage

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


That's fine, except it's more than just the government that provides benefits for married couples. You need to ask insurance (all types) companies and hospitals to get out of recognizing and distinguishing married vs single people. It's going to require a helluva lot of coordination and change within our society to returning marriage to merely a concept contained within the church.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
tommy1808
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:30 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
You need to ask insurance (all types) companies and hospitals to get out of recognizing and distinguishing married vs single people. It's going to require a helluva lot of coordination and change within our society to returning marriage to merely a concept contained within the church.


and everything you just mentioned is pretty hard proof that anywhere it counts, the religious wedding by itself means nothing at all. Only the government part of it counts, which makes sense, because it is a government function. The rest is just churches adorning themselves with borrowed plumes ...

If they want their own special stuff, they can call it religious blessed life partnership.

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
Airstud
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:28 am

DocLightning wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
This??free additional driver on a rental car



oooohhh, free stuff...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:30 am

Good old government controlling every aspect of our lives. "Free country" my you know what.
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Tugger
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:13 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Good old government controlling every aspect of our lives. "Free country" my you know what.

What a fantasy. The world you see is far removed from reality. "Every"?

Exactly which "free country" do you propose to be better based on your apparent fantasy that the USA government controls everything in your life. Even though the nation, i.e. "the government" was expressly created to control certain important things and have authority over the people within its borders.

From the link in the OP:
So, where should Republicans go from here? First, we shouldn’t hesitate to speak out if the president “plays to the base” in ways that damage the Republican Party’s ability to grow and speak to a larger audience.


Tugg
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jetero
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:11 am

DocLightning wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Agreed, but: 1) That's utterly impractical because nobody will actually go for it even though 2) all you're doing is changing the name of marriage, and really, is that worth all that trouble?

As for "government needs to get out of the marriage business," that's the biggest load of horse dung ever.


That's actually the way it works in most Latin countries, i.e. the civil marriage versus the church marriage concept. I think rfields is right--it's the way to go. At the end of the day, it ends up weakening the church, which is fine by me.
 
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:04 am

jetero wrote:
I think rfields is right--it's the way to go.


they can´t have "Marriage", "Wedding" and the like to themselves.

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
KLDC10
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:11 pm

The discussion about marriage is interesting, but I've just been on Twitter to find that President Trump appears to be throwing his support (not sure if it can be read as an official endorsement right now) behind Flake's primary opposition; Dr. Kelli Ward. See: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 2385979392

As I mentioned earlier, Flake has a hard primary fight ahead, and it just got a whole lot harder. Trump's opinions have a huge influence over the GOP base. I would not be surprised to see Flake lose his primary at this rate.
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tommy1808
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:30 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Dr. Kelli Ward..


http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Kel ... Rights.htm

Well... Trump likes wannebe fachists....
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bmacleod
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:54 pm

In the unlikely case that Trump does resign (according to Art of Deal writer) thinking Michael Pence will be just another Jimmy Carter who despite some big accomplishments like Energy Dept and airline deregulation was viewed as mostly a failure.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/347037-art-of-the-deal-writer-trump-will-resign-soon

My crystal ball for 2020 is still showing Senator Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren landslide.
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:41 pm

bmacleod wrote:
My crystal ball for 2020 is still showing Senator Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren landslide.


Harris, I think. :-) But we will see.
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:42 am

tommy1808 wrote:


Exactly, churches need to get out of the marriage business, they high jacked it after all. ...

Best regards
Thomas


Personally I believe in leaving it to the couple to decide if they want to get married in a church ceremony, have a civil wedding or elope to Las Vegas and get married in the Elvis Chapel.

Church weddings cal also be interesting when the Bride and Mother of the Bride start all the planning. Never get between the Bride and the MOB :crowded:
 
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:04 am

bmacleod wrote:
Jimmy Carter who despite some big accomplishments like Energy Dept and airline deregulation was viewed as mostly a failure.


Carter was carefully stabbed in the back by the GOP and their candidate Reagan.
( And Reagan went much further in doing "foreign contacts" from an unelected position
than Trump and his minions have ever been alleged with.
Sabotaging Carters talks with Iran. Doing his own interaction with Iran inclusive the
weapon and drugs trade roundabout later to be known as Iran Contra Affair.)
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:10 am

DocLightning wrote:
This?? This is what they were trying so desperately to keep from us? This is this "sanctity" that they keep throwing around? Tax forms and free additional driver on a rental car and a tax break on health insurance? How petty can you get?

Well, define "they." IMO "God, guns, and gays" are dog whistles to get social-conservative voters into the polling booths to vote for politicians who will continue the redistribution of wealth upward at the maximum practical rate.
 
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:58 am

DocLightning wrote:
Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.


This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. The fringe of the DNC is just as bad as the GOP and will never tolerate anything but high tax, high regulation and open borders. We need a third party where sane thinking individuals can come together. Neither party shares my beliefs and I am sick of tired of elected officials that have to pretend they are a conservative or Liberal.

DocLightning wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
My crystal ball for 2020 is still showing Senator Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren landslide.


Harris, I think. :-) But we will see.


Here in proves my point. Three totally whacko candidates that are pulling the Dems into far left Lunacy. Further destroying their party. I would practice saying "President Cuomo" he is our only chance to save the country at this point.
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:10 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
The fringe of the DNC is just as bad as the GOP


Nope. DNC doesn't have neo-Nazis. I can't think of anyone even on the loony fringe Left who actually wants to march people into gas chambers. All the pro-gassing people vote Republican when they vote.

NIKV69 wrote:
Here in proves my point. Three totally whacko candidates that are pulling the Dems into far left Lunacy.


Three Senators all with extensive political experience are not "totally whacko."
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:55 pm

DocLightning wrote:
The fringe of the DNC is just as bad as the GOP

Nope. DNC doesn't have neo-Nazis. I can't think of anyone even on the loony fringe Left who actually wants to march people into gas chambers.


Just Black Panthers who want all police dead and stand in front of polling places with deadly weapons. Black racists exist they just don't have protests. It's ok you can still live in your bubble of denial.



DocLightning wrote:


Three Senators all with extensive political experience are not "totally whacko."


Who also have anti police, rich hating extreme views that would destroy our economy. It's ok I actually hope Harris or Warren run, It will just show how further into insanity the Dems have gone.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
The fringe of the DNC is just as bad as the GOP

Nope. DNC doesn't have neo-Nazis. I can't think of anyone even on the loony fringe Left who actually wants to march people into gas chambers.


Just Black Panthers who want all police dead and stand in front of polling places with deadly weapons. Black racists exist they just don't have protests. It's ok you can still live in your bubble of denial.

"How can I pretend to assign moral equivalence and at the same time blame black people for white supremacists? I know! Black Panthers!" ...a party that has been irrelevant for decades.... :roll:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
NIKV69
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:06 pm

MaverickM1 wrote:
How can I pretend to assign moral equivalence and at the same time blame black people for white supremacists? I know! Black Panthers!" ...a party that has been irrelevant for decades.... :roll:


The Neo-Nazis are also irrelevant. If the opposing protest didn't rush them and start a violent confrontation and we didn't have a media that can't handle Trump as president nobody would be dead and we wouldn't be talking about it.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Tugger
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:14 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
The Neo-Nazis are also irrelevant. If the opposing protest didn't rush them and start a violent confrontation and we didn't have a media that can't handle Trump as president nobody would be dead and we wouldn't be talking about it.

Yes they are irrelevant, or more accurately they should be irrelevant, but it wasn't the handling of Trump by the media, it was Trump's handling of the white supremists and neo-nazi's that created relevance where none should have existed.

Seriously, it is not that hard to come out and say that they are bad and leave it at that. You can deal with the other elements that may have fed the situation but just say something clearly and succinctly and be done with it. Crush the neo-nazi's relevance, don't do anything to feed it.

Tugg
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DocLightning
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:30 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Who also have anti police, rich hating extreme views that would destroy our economy.


No, they don't. Also, Obama is not a Muslim and he wasn't born in Kenya. Also, the Black Panthers don't exist and haven't for decades. However, you are doing a lovely job of demonstrating how the GOP base has lost touch with reality.
-Doc Lightning-

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NIKV69
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:14 pm

DocLightning wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Who also have anti police, rich hating extreme views that would destroy our economy.


No, they don't. Also, Obama is not a Muslim and he wasn't born in Kenya. Also, the Black Panthers don't exist and haven't for decades. However, you are doing a lovely job of demonstrating how the GOP base has lost touch with reality.


I am not a member of the GOP. As usual you have to group people into the fringe since that is where you live. Yes Warren does have very radical views toward successful people. It's why her party wants no part of her in 2020. I never said anything about Obama's birthplace, you spun that, which you always do when you get exposed for what you are. The bitter partisanship has been destroying this country for too long and we need independent thinking and views. Not the fringe.

Also you can deny the black panthers exist all you want. But someone that dressed like them stood in front of polling places with deadly weapons during Obama's election and people have been marching and chanting death to cops and white people and spray painting it on fences. Whatever you want to call them they are the equal to the neo Nazi's on the left. Even if you want to make believe they don't exist.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
bmacleod
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:57 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.


This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. The fringe of the DNC is just as bad as the GOP and will never tolerate anything but high tax, high regulation and open borders. We need a third party where sane thinking individuals can come together. Neither party shares my beliefs and I am sick of tired of elected officials that have to pretend they are a conservative or Liberal.

DocLightning wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
My crystal ball for 2020 is still showing Senator Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren landslide.


Harris, I think. :-) But we will see.


Here in proves my point. Three totally whacko candidates that are pulling the Dems into far left Lunacy. Further destroying their party. I would practice saying "President Cuomo" he is our only chance to save the country at this point.


Many will forget or do not know for that matter Senator Warren was GOP up until the 1994 midterms. She was born in Oklahoma and credits Teddy Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan as her two favorite POTUS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
MaverickM11
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
MaverickM1 wrote:
How can I pretend to assign moral equivalence and at the same time blame black people for white supremacists? I know! Black Panthers!" ...a party that has been irrelevant for decades.... :roll:


The Neo-Nazis are also irrelevant. If the opposing protest didn't rush them and start a violent confrontation and we didn't have a media that can't handle Trump as president nobody would be dead and we wouldn't be talking about it.

Trump and his white "nationalist"--ie supremacist--cabinet trolls have made Nazis and white supremacists great again with their more-than-tacit support. You making excuses for Nazis shows how far you've lost the plot. They very clearly came for a fight, and they made that clear even threatening the local synagogue with destruction. Not only that, but another creation of the right wing fever dream: militias--came in droves armed to the tooth--and THEY said it was clear the Nazis and white supremacists came for a fight. And STILL you blame the death of a counter protester on anything and everything other than the obvious.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Also you can deny the black panthers exist all you want. But someone that dressed like them stood in front of polling places with deadly weapons during Obama's election and people have been marching and chanting death to cops and white people and spray painting it on fences. Whatever you want to call them they are the equal to the neo Nazi's on the left. Even if you want to make believe they don't exist.

Just pretend they were white and they'd be one of your open carry militia friends worshiped by Fox News
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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DocLightning
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:55 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I am not a member of the GOP.


No, but I defy you to tell me that you have ever in your adult life voted for a Democrat. If so, name that Democrat.

NIKV69 wrote:
As usual you have to group people into the fringe since that is where you live. Yes Warren does have very radical views toward successful people.

Given that she is a very successful person, I find that statement very odd. Also, my politics are center-Left. In Europe, I might even be considered a full centrist or even slightly
NIKV69 wrote:
Also you can deny the black panthers exist all you want. But someone that dressed like them stood in front of polling places with deadly weapons during Obama's election.


The. Black. Panthers. Do. Not. Exist. They went defunct in 1982. In 2008, two men stood outside a majority-Black polling place in Philadelphia with firearms. They claim to represent a group called the "New Black Panther Party." Former members of the Black Panthers have firmly denied that this organization is in any way connected to the Black Panthers. The "New Black Panther Party" is not formally registered in any state. They claim a membership in the thousands but it looks as if it's actually less than a hundred. Former members of the Black Panthers have adamantly disavowed this "group." It's certainly a stretch to call it "voter intimidation" when Black men in Black Panther Uniforms stood outside a majority-Black polling place, and that is what the DOJ found.

Your conspiracy-laden, Alex Jones wackiness is an excellent example of what has gone with the American right. Go ahead, keep digging deeper.

This conspiracy-theory whipping-up of the GOP base is part of the reason why the GOP finds itself unable to govern now. The promises that they have made and the candidates that have been seated in Congress are so far out of touch with reality that when they actually were given a task like "overhaul or repeal and replace the ACA" they were unable to.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
NIKV69
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:40 pm

DocLightning wrote:


No, but I defy you to tell me that you have ever in your adult life voted for a Democrat. If so, name that Democrat.


Governor Cuomo

DocLightning wrote:
The. Black. Panthers. Do. Not. Exist. They went defunct in 1982. In 2008, two men stood outside a majority-Black polling place in Philadelphia with firearms. They claim to represent a group called the "New Black Panther Party." Former members of the Black Panthers have firmly denied that this organization is in any way connected to the Black Panthers. The "New Black Panther Party" is not formally registered in any state. They claim a membership in the thousands but it looks as if it's actually less than a hundred. Former members of the Black Panthers have adamantly disavowed this "group." It's certainly a stretch to call it "voter intimidation" when Black men in Black Panther Uniforms stood outside a majority-Black polling place, and that is what the DOJ found.

Your conspiracy-laden, Alex Jones wackiness is an excellent example of what has gone with the American right. Go ahead, keep digging deeper.



Whatever you call them they hate white people and police. Stop with the straw man. It gets old. The reason the GOP can't govern is the far right fringe and moderates can't get along. Where as the DNC makes all members tow the line. Either way we get nowhere and you marginalize an extreme candidate that sympathizes with criminals like Harris or a communist that hates any successful person and banks like Warren. Dooming our economy.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ElPistolero
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:59 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Either way we get nowhere and you marginalize an extreme candidate that sympathizes with criminals like Harris or a communist that hates any successful person and banks like Warren. Dooming our economy.


I don't mean to interrupt, but stating that Warren hates any successful person is a bit of a stretch.

When it comes to hating any successful person, she's got nothing on the 'conservative populists'/Breitbart crowd, who's entire agenda is to take down the 'elite' (read successful).

As is plainly obvious, the 'elite' don't become the 'elite' by being unsuccessful/failing their way through life. Most of the hatred for them these days comes from people who would never vote for Warren.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:55 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
I don't mean to interrupt, but stating that Warren hates any successful person is a bit of a stretch.


As is calling the former attorney general and current senator for the largest state in the union an "extreme candidate who sympathizes with criminals."
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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MaverickM11
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:29 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Whatever you call them they hate white people and police. Stop with the straw man. It gets old. The reason the GOP can't govern is the far right fringe and moderates can't get along. Where as the DNC makes all members tow the line. Either way we get nowhere and you marginalize an extreme candidate that sympathizes with criminals like Harris or a communist that hates any successful person and banks like Warren. Dooming our economy.

Stop with the straw man? You've got a whole fleet of black straw men that are making you piddle in your diapers for no reason. If anything they hate getting shot for no good reason--wouldn't you? And what happened to Trump/Bannon taking on the banks? Is that passe now that it's inconvenient and his entire cabinet is almost exclusively Goldman Sachs alums?

ElPistolero wrote:
When it comes to hating any successful person, she's got nothing on the 'conservative populists'/Breitbart crowd, who's entire agenda is to take down the 'elite' (read successful).

In another episode of the endless parade of contrived lunacy and the right's progressing bovine spongiform encephalopathy , Trump and his billionaire cabinet and curio of obscenely wealthy hangers on = not elites. Anyone successful that isn't goosetepping to der Orange fueher's drum beat? = Elites.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ElPistolero
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:38 pm

DocLightning wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
I don't mean to interrupt, but stating that Warren hates any successful person is a bit of a stretch.


As is calling the former attorney general and current senator for the largest state in the union an "extreme candidate who sympathizes with criminals."


Got to ration reality with the 'true believers'. Especially when they find themselves tacitly supporting the same philosophy they claim to despise. Don't want to inundate them too much lest they start ranting about MSM/elite/lizard people/alien conspiracies to help the Dems destroy America.

Besides, the moment the President issues his first pardon, the proponents of the 'sympathizes with criminals' line of attack will quiet down.
 
NIKV69
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:50 pm

DocLightning wrote:

As is calling the former attorney general and current senator for the largest state in the union an "extreme candidate who sympathizes with criminals."


What does the size of the state matter? Does that make her more important? Start making your "Harris 2020" signs Doc but don't be surprised if the DNC nominates someone a little more toward the middle. They are facing a huge problem with fundraising and fringe extremists don't play to well in that department. Especially when you are not electable. Maybe both parties can realize it's time to ditch the whacko fringe and we can start to go forward.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
treetreeseven
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:02 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Start making your "Harris 2020" signs Doc but don't be surprised if the DNC nominates someone a little more toward the middle. They are facing a huge problem with fundraising and fringe extremists don't play to well in that department. Especially when you are not electable. Maybe both parties can realize it's time to ditch the whacko fringe and we can start to go forward.

If Kamala Harris is a "fringe extremist" on your planet, I think our parallel universes have diverged sufficiently that there is no point in continuing the conversation. Good lord.
 
bmacleod
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:44 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Start making your "Harris 2020" signs Doc but don't be surprised if the DNC nominates someone a little more toward the middle. They are facing a huge problem with fundraising and fringe extremists don't play to well in that department. Especially when you are not electable. Maybe both parties can realize it's time to ditch the whacko fringe and we can start to go forward.

If Kamala Harris is a "fringe extremist" on your planet, I think our parallel universes have diverged sufficiently that there is no point in continuing the conversation. Good lord.


Interesting,

In 2020 Kamala Harris will have been in Senate for same duration as Barack Obama. Hillary was odds-on favorite to win in 2008 and somehow despite just 3 and 1/2 years as US senator Obama was able to leapfrog over Hillary.

Voters saw the mess and chaos that came as a result of Obama's nomination and election - despite Obama being a strong force for change and will likely chose experience over charisma in 2020.

I'm looking at history to favor Warren. History does tend to repeat itself....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

2020 will be 100 years since election of Warren Harding who had a daughter named Elizabeth Ann.

A Warren-Harris or Warren-Booker Ticket? It will be interesting to say the least.....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:58 am

Old "Nazi" with Sen. Byrd

Image
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LAX772LR
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:15 am

bmacleod wrote:
My crystal ball for 2020 is still showing Senator Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren landslide.

I'll do the opposite. I'm predicting that Trump, should he still be in office at the end of year four, WILL (unfortunately) get re-elected.

Why? ...because as terribly incompetent as he is, Dems still haven't figured out how to effectively differentiate what THEY have to offer.

When you do the "At least I'm not that guy," against a sitting incumbent, YOU LOSE.
Don't believe me? Then ask John Kerry and Mitt Romney about how well that strategy worked.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:18 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Whatever you want to call them they are the equal to the neo Nazi's on the left.

Um, no.

That is the most ridiculous false equivalency I've seen on this board yet. Utterly preposterous.

Image
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:26 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Old "Nazi" with Sen. Byrd



Uh-huh, but here's where he is now:

Image


Here's where his Republican counterparts are now:

Image


....grasp it now, or does it have to be simplified even further for you? :roll:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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