User avatar
BobPatterson
Topic Author
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:43 am

Excerpt from "The Conscience of a Conservative" by Jeff Flake, Republican senator from Arizona.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ump-215442

I've read the book. It's not as good as the one by Senator Barry Goldwater (1960) by the same title.

But it's still pretty good.

One problem is that Mr. Flake lost his conscience when he left it to the other Senator from Arizona, John McCain, to block the terrible Republican bill on health care.

Has anyone else read the book?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 20471
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:38 pm

Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
KLDC10
Posts: 625
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:12 pm

Barry Goldwater's book was ghostwritten and merely published under his name. How much of Senator Flake's book has actually been written by him? Flake has a tough re-election campaign coming up and is facing a strong Primary challenge from Kelli Ward. Recent polling (https://perma.cc/NX66-BY95) has Ward leading, though clearly it is too early to predict which way the race will go.

You raise a good point about the healthcare bill. It is not merely enough to write a book outlining the theory of standing up for principled Conservatism, one must actually be willing to stand up and do so. I'll keep following Flake's activities in the Senate, but so far his words seem hollow. I'm not sure that his actions in the Senate have so far been anything other than mainstream - there's very little to differentiate him from, say, Senator Rubio of Florida. I think this book is an attempt to raise his profile, but I'm sorry, I just don't think he stands out from other Republican Senators.

Since DocLightning mentioned the DNC, I'll quickly address that too: First of all, I'm glad that party members are willing to welcome diversity of opinion. However, the message from senior party figures like Tom Perez has often been at odds not only with this idea, but with other members of the party. See: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04 ... -life.html
If the DNC truly does welcome diversity of opinion, then the Party Chairman shouldn't be making statements like that. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't sensible, moderate Democrats, far from it, but I am illustrating how, just as the GOP has moved to the right and begun to resemble what used to be the outer edges of the party, so too has the DNC moved to the left and begun to resemble the outer fringes of their party.

Let's take a look at a wedge issue like gay marriage for example. When you start to break that down it has something for everyone. Liberals can claim obviously claim victory, but so too can small government conservatives. Does the government actually need to define marriage? No. Do you have to personally agree with something to support someone else's right to do it? No. That's why Kentucky Senator Rand Paul supports the legalization of marijuana, but wouldn't use it himself.

Right now, political discourse is so coarse that whosoever shouts the loudest shall be declared the victor by default and even the simplest thing cannot get done. Take infrastructure investment as an example. The GOP favors privately-led investment, while the DNC favors direct government investment. Thus: No deal. I mean, come on! Do a bit of both! There are areas which clearly would benefit from privately-led investment (where the investors will see a return), but there are also areas which aren't at all attractive to investors and which would fail to benefit from an entirely privately-led infrastructure package. Infrastructure could be a big bipartisan win, but everybody hates everybody else, so the same old gridlock persists.

If the politicians don't get along, then that permeates the rest of American society. People start to see their neighbors not as friends, but as Republicans or Democrats. There's a distrust which begins in Washington and then spreads to the rest of society. I have plenty of liberal friends - we quite often respectfully discuss politics with one another, but we don't end up throwing the deck chairs at one another. Five minutes after our discussion, we can be found sharing a beer round the campfire or barbecue, not "unfriending" each other on "the Facebook" and wondering why on earth we ever thought it would be a good idea to be friends in the first place. But all too often, I hear about people ending friendships because of political views. It's really quite sad.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146/Q400/737/738/739/752/772/A320/A332/A333/E190
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 6662
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.

You want change the Republican party? Have EVERY Democrat register as Republican and vote. This will affect the party more than anything else. But for some reason people cannot do that because "but I am a Democrat!" (or Republican). Its a freaking word. And quite frankly one that does not truly define people because everyone has some level of difference or disagreement with the party they register with.

Likely in Bob's case, if he were to register as a Democrat, he might very well vote for the most "conservative" democrat candidate. And you Doc, if yuo voted Republican, I am fairly certain your would vote for the most liberal Republican (whoever most matched with your desires for legislative actions)

I think the greatest thing would be if everyone would begin to cross register, because it would diminish the power of the extremes, the fringe 2%.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2615
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.


I'm not so sure about that anymore. The Berniecrat wing of the democrats is getting almost as bad as the Tea Party. In fact, they might actually be worse. At least the Tea Party won elections, the Berniecrat wing has accomplished bupkus except for losing elections and bitching about everyone else...

Can you tell I am not a fan?! ;)
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Topic Author
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:48 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Why is it still your party? The modern DNC espouses most of the positions that the GOP espoused 30 or 40 years ago. We'll welcome you, Bob. Our party welcomes diversity of opinion.

The words "My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump" are by the author of the book, Senator Flake of Snowflake, Arizona.

However, I am still registered as a Republican in Prince George's County, Maryland. It simply is not worth the time and effort to change my registration. Plus, I can sometimes use this little fact to annoy a pompous Democrat.

I've told my story before, no need to repeat it. But the last time I voted for a Republican for Federal Office (except for President) was in the case of Lawrence Hogan, late father of our present Governor. Mr. Hogan was prominent among Republicans who voted to impeach President Nixon.

I really have little use or respect for party politics. Our major parties do not have clean skirts, and the third...fourth...nth parties are mostly fruitcakes.

Color me independent.

Thanks for the invitation.

Edited to insert: (except for President)
Last edited by BobPatterson on Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 6662
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:59 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
I really have little use or respect for party politics. Our major parties do not have clean skirts, and the third...fourth...nth parties are mostly fruitcakes.

Color me independent..

I think this is the most important point: Being registered to a party is not, cannot be, SHOULD NOT be your sole identity. It does not mean you love everything about it. A political party cannot "speak for you", only you do that. You must speak up for things you disagree with and support the things you approve, regardless of party.

I like the RHINO.... It has kind of become a badge for me that says I think for myself. That I speak up about what I disagree with.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Topic Author
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:04 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Barry Goldwater's book was ghostwritten and merely published under his name.

I was fairly close to the writings of Senator Goldwater in the period 1959-1963. While he indeed used speech writers to polish his prose (in the book, articles and speeches), the ideas that he expressed were his own.

KLDC10 wrote:
Does the government actually need to define marriage?

Yes, it must, so long as social benefits (taxes, other laws) are prescribed by marital status. Those laws may of course be modified to accommodate new "norms"
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:54 pm

One reason (of the few) I like being a Texas resident is we do not register by party. On primary Election Day I can vote in which party primary I want.

Marriage

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 20471
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 am

rfields5421 wrote:
No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Agreed, but: 1) That's utterly impractical because nobody will actually go for it even though 2) all you're doing is changing the name of marriage, and really, is that worth all that trouble?

As for "government needs to get out of the marriage business," that's the biggest load of horse dung ever. When we got married, we were able to file taxes jointly. If one of us dies, the other gets all benefits and community property automatically without having to set up an entire set of documents with an attorney. I can pay his bills and he can pay mine. If he's incapicated, I get automatic power of attorney and if he's in the hospital I am guaranteed the right to visit him. The list of legal consequences and benefits goes on and on and on. And so, as a result, our lives got so much easier and convenient. It cut the amount of bureaucracy and paperwork in our life by almost two thirds and that left me fuming.

This?? This is what they were trying so desperately to keep from us? This is this "sanctity" that they keep throwing around? Tax forms and free additional driver on a rental car and a tax break on health insurance? How petty can you get?

And so call it "marriage" or "domestic partnership" or "galooga balooga," it's just a name.

And frankly, this was all settled two years ago and if you still have a problem with it, it's time to move on.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
LMP737
Posts: 5225
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:47 am

rfields5421 wrote:

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Do you got to a church or the local county office for a marriage license?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 5968
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:35 am

LMP737 wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


Do you got to a church or the local county office for a marriage license?


Exactly, churches need to get out of the marriage business, they high jacked it after all. ...

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:44 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
One reason (of the few) I like being a Texas resident is we do not register by party. On primary Election Day I can vote in which party primary I want.

Marriage

No the government needs to get out of the marriage business. The government should have a methodology to register two (or more) consenting adults into a civil contract which covers those legal and civil matters necessary. Leave "marriage" to the churches.


That's fine, except it's more than just the government that provides benefits for married couples. You need to ask insurance (all types) companies and hospitals to get out of recognizing and distinguishing married vs single people. It's going to require a helluva lot of coordination and change within our society to returning marriage to merely a concept contained within the church.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
tommy1808
Posts: 5968
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:30 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
You need to ask insurance (all types) companies and hospitals to get out of recognizing and distinguishing married vs single people. It's going to require a helluva lot of coordination and change within our society to returning marriage to merely a concept contained within the church.


and everything you just mentioned is pretty hard proof that anywhere it counts, the religious wedding by itself means nothing at all. Only the government part of it counts, which makes sense, because it is a government function. The rest is just churches adorning themselves with borrowed plumes ...

If they want their own special stuff, they can call it religious blessed life partnership.

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
Airstud
Posts: 3398
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:28 am

DocLightning wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
This??free additional driver on a rental car



oooohhh, free stuff...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: My Party Is in Denial About Donald Trump

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:30 am

Good old government controlling every aspect of our lives. "Free country" my you know what.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 787Driver, Braybuddy, Calder, casinterest, Dutchy, mdsh00, salttee, SOBHI51, Tugger, WildcatYXU and 4 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos