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pvjin
Posts: 3605
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:23 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
If you're gonna get really technical, then everyone except those with African ancestry are immigrants as scientific consensus agrees that humans originated in Africa.


Not really

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017 ... ists-find/

http://www.history.com/news/did-the-fir ... not-africa
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:26 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Why bring into a discussion about an event in Virginia, USA, your constant harping about lynchings in India?


Because bigotry transcends race. It is important to learn the right lessons from history and the mistakes other people have made (or are making).

Great scene from the film Nuremberg.

Hermann Göring - Because you Are A Jew
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
330west
Topic Author
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:46 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Why bring into a discussion about an event in Virginia, USA, your constant harping about lynchings in India?


Because bigotry transcends race. It is important to learn the right lessons from history and the mistakes other people have made (or are making).


You make it seem as though you've reached some kind of profound realization here when it's a well-established fact of life apparent to anyone over the age of twelve.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 629
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:48 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
If you're gonna get really technical, then everyone except those with African ancestry are immigrants as scientific consensus agrees that humans originated in Africa.


I just thought it was interesting to note that migration has been a feature of American life for hundreds upon hundreds of years, that's all.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146/Q400/737/738/739/752/763/772/A320/A332/A333/E190
 
D L X
Posts: 11881
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:48 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
What do you expect?


Who me? I expected you to defend neo-Nazis.

And you did not disappoint me. :bigthumbsup: Strong work, yo.

I'd be surprised to find out Charles was not there himself.
 
Mir
Posts: 19332
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:56 pm

NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:
I have nothing but contempt for Nazis, so...I don't really give a crap about their problems once they decide to head down that road.


Interesting. How do you feel about communists?


Fundamentally disagree with their economic philosophy. But they are not as bad as Nazis and/or the KKK.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Kiwirob
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:01 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Why are these Euro-Americans chanting this? They are, after all, an immigrant group themselves.


I can't remember the last time I heard about any native Americans protesting anything. I have the impression that many tribes especially the wealthy casino owning ones keep to themselves.
 
Mir
Posts: 19332
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:14 pm

pvjin wrote:
It's no more difficult for blacks to vote than for any other group in the US. Admittedly your entire voting system does suck big time though.


This is a lie. There are numerous documented instances of legal obstacles put in the way of people in primarily black areas while not being put in the way of people in primarily white areas. And I'm not even talking about voter ID laws - those are a whole different discussion - but rather the limiting of polling locations and voting hours.

pvjin wrote:
Probably because blacks commit a disproportionately high amount of crimes.


Which would explain why more black people are sentenced for them, but has absolutely nothing to do with the severity of the sentences. If everyone is equal under the law, then if black people are committing more crimes there should be more black people getting the same sentences as white people who commit the same crime. But that's not the case.

pvjin wrote:
Bullshit, Latin Americans and Asians were never victims of large scale slavery. Especially the latter groups is actually doing much better than whites in most areas of life.


I wasn't just talking about black people - that seemed to go over your head. I'm talking about blacks and Muslims and hispanics. All of them face different forms of discrimination, all of which these spoiled children have never had to even contemplate facing.

pvjin wrote:
Probably they are afraid that some day black supremacists will just go and start a genocide of white people. In South Africa that's actually a very real possibility in near future, there whites face extreme discrimination and nobody gives a damn.


If black supremacy were actually a thing that might be relevant. But it is not.

pvjin wrote:
Very true, except it's those black lives matter people who should do that. They should start improving their communities and start working for a better future instead of whining all the time.


Another bit of discrimination white people don't have to face: the idea that calling for equal treatment under the law is 'whining'.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10662
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Mir wrote:

Our families and friends abroad who might want to visit us are banned from entering the country on grounds of 'security'.


This is an issue for pretty much anyone who lives in a non visa waiver country, of which most of Eastern Europe aren't, so there are a whole bunch of white folks who have a difficult time if they want to visit the US.
 
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lugie
Posts: 509
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Sums it up quite well

Image
Q400 E175 CRJ9 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 B733 B738 B788
X3 LH 4U TP US YX SN EI LA
FRA STR HAM TXL ACE BRU BLL DUB MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT
 
Mir
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:21 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Mir wrote:

Our families and friends abroad who might want to visit us are banned from entering the country on grounds of 'security'.


This is an issue for pretty much anyone who lives in a non visa waiver country, of which most of Eastern Europe aren't, so there are a whole bunch of white folks who have a difficult time if they want to visit the US.


They can still get visas. Family of a lot of Muslims in the US flat-out can't.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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zkojq
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:52 pm

What a sad day for america. The violence is sickening.

I'd like to say I'm surprised by all the nazi apologists....but I'm really not. Some people have the mental gymnastics physique to rationalise anything. The number of people who aren't condemning this violence is disgusting.


Left-wing progressives have always been the target of violence and I guess they always will be. In 1965 protesters demanding the right to vote were beaten on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma. In the 1930s pastors who stood against the Third Reich's anti-semitic policies were killed. Heck, even going back to Roman times there was a well known carpenter who's radical message of loving one's neighbour and breaking down barriers between Jew and gentiles was killed by the state.

For ever and ever it seems that the far-right will take any opportunity to walk all over left wing protesters. The only thing that the hard right respect is strength. Maybe those protesting against racism and violence should show up with AR15s next time. The right-wing fascists wouldn't be so quick to slaughter them then...

MaverickM11 wrote:
Dreadnought is one of many species of mostly white men old enough to have witnessed Jim Crow and senile enough to blame it on black people while quoting MLK without a hint of irony or awareness

Amusing but very sad.

coolian2 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
yes I will debate you on that.


I think I'd rather debate something non-stupid. My toaster is telling me it's not going to rain this afternoon.

einsteinboricua wrote:
You're concerned about toasters when it's the microwave with CIA cameras that you should be worried about.

:rotfl:

KLDC10 wrote:
Native Americans originally came from Asia (http://time.com/3964634/native-american-origin-theory/)

I had no idea about that. Interesting indeed!

Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Fundamentally disagree with their economic philosophy. But they are not as bad as Nazis and/or the KKK.

But Hannity said that it's left-wingers who are the ones inciting the violence!!

Kiwirob wrote:
I can't remember the last time I heard about any native Americans protesting anything.

They were protesting plans for a new oil pipeline that was planned to cross into their land in one of the northern states. I wasn't following the story specifically, but I seem to remember that it ended in state-sponsored violence.

Mir wrote:
This is a lie. There are numerous documented instances of legal obstacles put in the way of people in primarily black areas while not being put in the way of people in primarily white areas. And I'm not even talking about voter ID laws - those are a whole different discussion - but rather the limiting of polling locations and voting hours.

A conversation with my godfather last year demonstrated the point....

Me (sarcastically): so how was the experience voting for old Donnie?

Him (sarcastically): the opportunity of a lifetime! Took a while to find a carpark though.

Me: Were you queuing long for it? I guess in SC you have lots of that crap trying to make it an unpleasant experience if you're one of the wrong demographics.

Him: Nah 15 minutes or so, nothing major. I'm in a fairly wealthy district though, so they run a fairly tight ship. My secretary though is from a poor area and of the unfavoured demographic, so it took more than an hour longer than her lunch break.
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)
 
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pvjin
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:18 pm

zkojq wrote:
Left-wing progressives have always been the target of violence and I guess they always will be.


They have also always been violent themselves. Just a short while ago in Hamburg we saw those left wing progressives attacking people and property in a very violent manner. Those who claim it's always the far right that starts violence are lying, the far left is equally often the offending side.

zkojq wrote:
Maybe those protesting against racism and violence should show up with AR15s next time. The right-wing fascists wouldn't be so quick to slaughter them then...


Sounds good, guns and left wing progressives do after all have a long shared history. Perhaps the American left will eventually follow the example of certain Georgian revolutionary from the early 1900's. He was really successful at getting rid of people he believed to be fascist.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
treetreeseven
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:27 pm

I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:37 pm

socalgeo wrote:
No he was a Trump voter, and he hasn't a single racist bone in his body.


100.00%, every single Trump voter, without exception, knowingly voted for a man who had said horribly racist things and who had openly courted Neo-Nazis.

That means that every single Trump voter is a racist. No exceptions. #YesAllTrumpers

Sorry if that hurts your feelings (no I'm not), but I just don't care about your feelings.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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pvjin
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:39 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.


None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people, so why should we give a damn about this attack either, especially when it only killed a single person and thus is hardly even newsworthy amidst all other much more deadly attacks happening in the world?

Besides, we don't even know if it was intentional attack. Perhaps those anarchists attacked the car and the driver panicked, it's quite possible as antifa hates successful people who can afford to own a car.
Last edited by pvjin on Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
NoTime
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:42 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
This was exactly my fear: that under Trump, America will regress to street thuggery in the same way as India did under Modi.


You're missing a key point, here. MANY on the right have felt that way for 8 years. With constant protests and violence in the name of various causes over much of the last decade, you're just now feeling that America is regressing into street thuggery? Why do you think Trump overwhelming won amongst "law and order" voters?

The fact that a bunch of far right goobers decided to start doing the same as the left, is really just another step on what has already been a long journey towards the "street thuggery" that you fear.

Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:
I have nothing but contempt for Nazis, so...I don't really give a crap about their problems once they decide to head down that road.


Interesting. How do you feel about communists?


Fundamentally disagree with their economic philosophy. But they are not as bad as Nazis and/or the KKK.


:lol: :lol:
"Anyone who doesn't accept the results of an election is a danger to democracy"- Hillary Clinton
 
NoTime
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:47 pm

pvjin wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.


None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people, so why should we give a damn about this attack either, especially when it only killed a single person and thus is hardly even newsworthy amidst all other much more deadly attacks happening in the world?


Vitriol aside, this is an interesting point.

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media skirt around the issue and debate the possible causes of the violence. (Some media outlets continue to question the motives of the Orlando night club shooter, etc). Yet, in this case, the left and the media had zeroed in on the cause (far right idiocy) within seconds of the attack.

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media say "it's wrong to expect other Muslims to denounce this type of action, they had nothing to do with it." Yet, in this case, I've seen many calls for conservatives, white males, etc, to denounce this single instance of murder.
"Anyone who doesn't accept the results of an election is a danger to democracy"- Hillary Clinton
 
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Tugger
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:22 pm

pvjin wrote:
None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people,

You are quite definitely a fool if you believe this, possible an idiot even, but I think it is just willful ignorance on your parts (and others) that causes this. You are intentionally avoiding reality to justify not accepting things that are just wrong. You are definitely doing that here along with several others, writing to justify why unjustifiable actions are OK. And you blind yourself to the fact that you are doing that. You did the same when 70 children were gunned down in Norway 6 years ago. You never see the fault in defending/justifying one action or attack while attempting to damn another. Based on your justifications, if you were not willfully blinding yourself, you would acknowledge these all as OK and understandable because each group or attacker has in their view been wronged. Instead you make things up to justify your opinion so you can ignore the truth, the reality.

I can't think of anyone I know who does or did not "give a shit" when people were and are killed.

But I don't care or need to try to convince you of this. Everyone can see the foolishness you espouse, and others in your similar vein use you posts to justify their posts (and thinking) in an odd and equally obviously foolish, circular mutual support group.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
330west
Topic Author
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:34 pm

Tugger wrote:
pvjin wrote:
None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people,

You are quite definitely a fool if you believe this, possible an idiot even, but I think it is just willful ignorance on your parts (and others) that causes this.


I don't even think it's ignorance. People who think this way fabricate these completely illogical and fantastical narratives to justify their extremist viewpoints.
 
LMP737
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:52 pm

NoTime wrote:
Interesting. How do you feel about communists?


What does that have to do with anything?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:57 pm

NoTime wrote:

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media say "it's wrong to expect other Muslims to denounce this type of action, they had nothing to do with it." Yet, in this case, I've seen many calls for conservatives, white males, etc, to denounce this single instance of murder.


Do you have an example?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
treetreeseven
Posts: 135
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:06 pm

pvjin wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.


None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people, so why should we give a damn about this attack either, especially when it only killed a single person and thus is hardly even newsworthy amidst all other much more deadly attacks happening in the world?

Besides, we don't even know if it was intentional attack. Perhaps those anarchists attacked the car and the driver panicked, it's quite possible as antifa hates successful people who can afford to own a car.

Boy, you sure responded to my post in a hurry and typed up quite a flustered reply... almost like it hit a little too close to home :wink2:
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15746
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:06 pm

pvjin wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.


None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people, so why should we give a damn about this attack either, especially when it only killed a single person and thus is hardly even newsworthy amidst all other much more deadly attacks happening in the world?

Besides, we don't even know if it was intentional attack. Perhaps those anarchists attacked the car and the driver panicked, it's quite possible as antifa hates successful people who can afford to own a car.

Definitely double down on defending actual Nazis. No surprise there. Anarchist panic :rotfl: ...is that the new gay panic?

NoTime wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
This was exactly my fear: that under Trump, America will regress to street thuggery in the same way as India did under Modi.


You're missing a key point, here. MANY on the right have felt that way for 8 years. With constant protests and violence in the name of various causes over much of the last decade, you're just now feeling that America is regressing into street thuggery? Why do you think Trump overwhelming won amongst "law and order" voters?

"Law and order" is dog whistle for 'lock minorities up asap'. It's the "get off my lawn" of racist (almost entirely) old, white men. The white supremacist movement is the logical extension of that.

DocLightning wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
No he was a Trump voter, and he hasn't a single racist bone in his body.


100.00%, every single Trump voter, without exception, knowingly voted for a man who had said horribly racist things and who had openly courted Neo-Nazis.

That means that every single Trump voter is a racist. No exceptions. #YesAllTrumpers

Sorry if that hurts your feelings (no I'm not), but I just don't care about your feelings.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: The evidence has been clear for decades, long before the right started to white wash their orange, evangelical turd
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:43 pm

A couple of things I find interesting about this:

1. When a "neutral site" attack happens (Pulse Nightclub, San Burnardino, for example) Two statements come out at almost the same time: "Islamic militant!" and "let's not jump to conclusions until we have all the facts." When a targeted attack (on a mosque) happens, we hear the opposite: "Let's not jump to conclusions until we have all the facts." and "Christian militant!"

2. Right wing social media is wondering how this could happen. Really? Are they seriously asking this? After more than a decade of whites being told that whites are oppressed and whites have no voice and whites are always the victims, the right is wondering why the whites are violent?
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:51 pm

seb146 wrote:
2. Right wing social media is wondering how this could happen. Really? Are they seriously asking this? After more than a decade of whites being told that whites are oppressed and whites have no voice and whites are always the victims, the right is wondering why the whites are violent?


Look, I think this whole situation is terrible, but the alt-right Nazi wannabe's have just as much right to free speech in this country as everyone. Don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As to the antiFa idiots, they have the right to free speech. But when you put a bunch of jackbooted, professional disturbance makers of antiFa next to the alt right, what do you expect to happen?

Maybe the antiFa idiots should get a job and do something productive, rather than pretending to be social justice warrior snowflakes.
From my cold, dead hands
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10662
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:58 pm

DocLightning wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
No he was a Trump voter, and he hasn't a single racist bone in his body.


100.00%, every single Trump voter, without exception, knowingly voted for a man who had said horribly racist things and who had openly courted Neo-Nazis.

That means that every single Trump voter is a racist. No exceptions. #YesAllTrumpers

Sorry if that hurts your feelings (no I'm not), but I just don't care about your feelings.


I honestly believe every single person on this planet discriminates against people who are not like them, that includes you Doc. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and in denial.
 
330west
Topic Author
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:09 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
No he was a Trump voter, and he hasn't a single racist bone in his body.


100.00%, every single Trump voter, without exception, knowingly voted for a man who had said horribly racist things and who had openly courted Neo-Nazis.

That means that every single Trump voter is a racist. No exceptions. #YesAllTrumpers

Sorry if that hurts your feelings (no I'm not), but I just don't care about your feelings.


I honestly believe every single person on this planet discriminates against people who are not like them, that includes you Doc. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and in denial.


I genuinely detest white supremacists, trailer park conservatives, homophobes and in-your face Christians. Anyone else willing in to candidly admit their prejudices? Dreadnought? Pvjin?
 
Mir
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:12 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
2. Right wing social media is wondering how this could happen. Really? Are they seriously asking this? After more than a decade of whites being told that whites are oppressed and whites have no voice and whites are always the victims, the right is wondering why the whites are violent?


Look, I think this whole situation is terrible, but the alt-right Nazi wannabe's have just as much right to free speech in this country as everyone. Don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As to the antiFa idiots, they have the right to free speech. But when you put a bunch of jackbooted, professional disturbance makers of antiFa next to the alt right, what do you expect to happen?

Maybe the antiFa idiots should get a job and do something productive, rather than pretending to be social justice warrior snowflakes.


Yes, if only people hadn't shown up to express their anger with Nazis and the KKK marching through their town, everything would have been nice and peaceful. Perhaps we should have let the Nazis and the KKK have their day, granted them some legitimacy. And then, their hunger for attention sated, they would surely have quietly gone away to hibernate until the same time next year as opposed to becoming emboldened to have more, larger, marches.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:14 pm

pvjin wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
If you're gonna get really technical, then everyone except those with African ancestry are immigrants as scientific consensus agrees that humans originated in Africa.


Not really

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017 ... ists-find/

http://www.history.com/news/did-the-fir ... not-africa

Always beware the caveats:

"If accepted, this theory will indeed alter the very beginning of human history."

"However some experts were more skeptical about the findings."

We are all Africans.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:16 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Why are these Euro-Americans chanting this? They are, after all, an immigrant group themselves.


I can't remember the last time I heard about any native Americans protesting anything. I have the impression that many tribes especially the wealthy casino owning ones keep to themselves.

Google is your friend: "Pipelines and Native Americans"

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?enable ... +Americans
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
No he was a Trump voter, and he hasn't a single racist bone in his body.


100.00%, every single Trump voter, without exception, knowingly voted for a man who had said horribly racist things and who had openly courted Neo-Nazis.

That means that every single Trump voter is a racist. No exceptions. #YesAllTrumpers

Sorry if that hurts your feelings (no I'm not), but I just don't care about your feelings.

Not absolutely true, so absolutes should be avoided.

There are many people who vote without knowledge of candidates or issues.

The fact that you are aware of what's going on around you does not mean that everyone else is.

I happen to be extremely close to one of those people who goes to vote and only wants to know "who is the Democrat".

What I am describing is not rare.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:32 pm

pvjin wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.


None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people, so why should we give a damn about this attack either, especially when it only killed a single person and thus is hardly even newsworthy amidst all other much more deadly attacks happening in the world?

Besides, we don't even know if it was intentional attack. Perhaps those anarchists attacked the car and the driver panicked, it's quite possible as antifa hates successful people who can afford to own a car.

My offer of the cup of coffee is hereby rescinded.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Tugger
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:47 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Look, I think this whole situation is terrible, but the alt-right Nazi wannabe's have just as much right to free speech in this country as everyone. Don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As to the antiFa idiots, they have the right to free speech. But when you put a bunch of jackbooted, professional disturbance makers of antiFa next to the alt right, what do you expect to happen?.

OK, so you agree with and understand the Islamic fundamentalists that attack anyone that wants to drive, or allow women to be in public without being covered completely. And you understand and accept that Islamists have a justification to attack the west, even innocents that are not attacking them, as we are interlopers in their land and causing friction?

What do you expect to happen when you put people striving for improving their future next to people that want to keep things as they are?

Its automatic. Violence in normal, acceptable and understandable as this is what free speech is all about. Apparently.

Seriously, the twisting that I see many going through here to literally justify the violence in this situation is ridiculous. Actually it is concerning.

Its not that hard people: The values the marchers were espousing are damaging to society. Free speech allows it, allows you to say what you wish but it does not stop the public from reacting (that has been well established, freedom of speech does not mean freedom or protection from negative public response). Responding with violence, on either side, is not OK and is to be repudiated.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:02 pm

NoTime wrote:
pvjin wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
I noticed the Nazi bootlickers got quiet after the car attack. I wonder what they'll have to say for themselves if they come back to the thread.

Edit: most of the Nazi bootlickers.


None of you progressives give a shit when an Islamic terrorist kills white people, so why should we give a damn about this attack either, especially when it only killed a single person and thus is hardly even newsworthy amidst all other much more deadly attacks happening in the world?


Vitriol aside, this is an interesting point.

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media skirt around the issue and debate the possible causes of the violence. (Some media outlets continue to question the motives of the Orlando night club shooter, etc). Yet, in this case, the left and the media had zeroed in on the cause (far right idiocy) within seconds of the attack.

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media say "it's wrong to expect other Muslims to denounce this type of action, they had nothing to do with it." Yet, in this case, I've seen many calls for conservatives, white males, etc, to denounce this single instance of murder.


Could be racism amongst your own kind in a civilized society is of greater concern, its mainstream everyday America, while Islam is not, Muslims are only 2-3 percent of your society mostly immigrant origin no matter how many generations,but to find racism in your majority community directed towards others sharing same religion and values, but disliked because of their ethnic origins and colour is something else.

If Islamic terrorism did not exist, do you think media and liberals would have handled racism issues with kid gloves,like accused of for Islamic terror.?
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:04 pm

I got a simple solution, why not just ignore the Nazis, Communists, Racists, KKK, Antifa, BLM, etc? When you give them the attention and platform they crave, they grow and become much larger. When you ignore them, they'll dissolve into oblivion.

Yesterday would've been so much better if the counter-protesters ignored them, blocked them out, sang/shouted above the racists. But when you go into assault mode, the other side is going to fight back.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:05 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
There are many people who vote without knowledge of candidates or issues.

As in the law, ignorance or not knowing the law does not excuse you from penalty when you violate it. It's that kind of people who I think would be disenfranchised if an IQ test were imposed; voting without knowing the candidate is an irresponsible use of the vote. And before you tell me that we all have the right to use our vote as we wish, let's not forget the the Constitution also grants us the use of weapons, yet we all agree that buying weapons for the sake of buying and flaunting them is not that the amendment's author(s) intended.

We have rights; it is our duty to exercise them with judgement. Voting blindly for a party or against a candidate without knowing the issues or the candidates themselves belittles the very foundation of what a vote is.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
coolian2
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:20 pm

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747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/CRJ-700/-900
 
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pvjin
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:45 pm

coolian2 wrote:


The only Nazi like thing I see there is the German legal system which doesn't give a damn about freedom of expression. I don't understand how anyone can take the Nazi salute seriously in year 2017. National socialism is dead and anybody doing such gesture is either joking or an idiot, or possibly both.

German people should grow up and stop being so obsessed with what happened in the late late 30's and 40's. Most of the world moved on a long time ago already.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
NoTime
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:53 pm

What if smearing huge groups of non-racist people as racists (and based solely on how they voted) makes it harder to fight actual racists?
"Anyone who doesn't accept the results of an election is a danger to democracy"- Hillary Clinton
 
330west
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:54 pm

NoTime wrote:
What if smearing huge groups of non-racist people as racists (and based solely on how they voted) makes it harder to fight actual racists?


If someone voted for Trump, they voted for a racist, ergo, they're racists through their willful complicity.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:46 am

NoTime wrote:
Vitriol aside, this is an interesting point.

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media skirt around the issue and debate the possible causes of the violence.


What bull dropped that on the barn floor? :roll: But I see that is a popular tactic on the Right: to shoot the messenger. To attack the media reporting on Right Wing terror for their alleged "bias".

As journalists, we report the news as we see it. We have objectively reported stories on EVERY attack whether it was by an ISIS operative or by RSS/KKK member. But yet some sections of the far-right accuse journalists of being selective. Thats not true. Not true at all.

I do question the connection of religion to this a***holery though: Terrorism/Bigotry has no religion. Every religion, and I include the Buddhists have had people go out and behave like a***holes. But why are we so quick to blame Islam for an attack by an ISIS/al-Qaeda operative? Is it right, or useful to use the phrase "Islamic Terrorist" so loosely? Do we do the same when the attacker is your co-religionist?

When the IRA blew up car-bombs at Lisburn or Bristol did we call it a "Christian terror attack"? When some piece of southern white-trash plows his car through a crowded suburb in a fit of insanity, or when a bunch of white boys lynch a black guy did we call them "White Christian Terrorist"? No we didnt. But apparently, we have no problem doing that when the culprit is a Muslim?

We have reported on all acts of terror and bigotry without being selective. But we cannot be Alex Jones or Arnab Goswami - because THAT is not journalism. So please! Dont blame the media for your biases.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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DocLightning
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:57 am

BobPatterson wrote:
There are many people who vote without knowledge of candidates or issues.

The fact that you are aware of what's going on around you does not mean that everyone else is.

I happen to be extremely close to one of those people who goes to vote and only wants to know "who is the Democrat".


Bob, in 2017, in an era that is saturated with media, you would have to make a concerted effort *not* to see this:
Image

You would have to make a concerted effort to avoid hearing anything that Donald Trump said during the campaign. It was literally *everywhere.* You could have hid under a rock and still been bombarded with it. And so if you actually unaware of these issues, then there's a logical paradox because you must have made a concerted effort to be unaware of them and so you must have been aware of them.

I know plenty of people who normally refuse to vote Democrat who either abstained or voted for Johnson (and a few for Hillary). I know a *lot* of people who "don't follow politics" and even they knew Donald Trump was a horrible racist.

I simply refuse to believe that there is any competent adult in this country who voted and yet didn't know anything about Donald Trump.

And I'd be willing to bet you that cup of coffee you just withdrew from pjvin that your "who's the Democrat" friend was at least aware of one racist thing that Donald Trump had said. Remember, the thing about racists (and I am a racist, BTW...I'm trying not to be, but I am a racist) is that most of them don't know that they're racists. But they're still racists, just like me.

Difference is that I know I am one and I work every day to be less of one.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
NoTime
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:59 am

BawliBooch wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Vitriol aside, this is an interesting point.

When there is an Islamic attack (even a car ramming), many on the left and in the media skirt around the issue and debate the possible causes of the violence.


We have reported on all acts of terror and bigotry without being selective.


Complete and utter nonsense. One need only look at the difference in coverage between the UVA killing vs. the terrorist shooting at Ft. Hood (excuse me, the "workplace violence" at Ft. Hood). Or, the ongoing search for the oh-so-mysterious motivation behind the Orlando shooter, and the immediate jump to assumptions regarding the motivation of the UVA driver.
"Anyone who doesn't accept the results of an election is a danger to democracy"- Hillary Clinton
 
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Tugger
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:10 am

NoTime wrote:
and the immediate jump to assumptions regarding the motivation of the UVA driver.


What immediate jump to assumptions has the general media made? I have been watching/reading pretty much all the major news websites and I have not seen someone calling the driver out as something specific.

Can you provide a source?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:21 am

I'm surprised that there has been no thread on the firing of James Damore, the Google employee, for expressing mildly controversial opinions, because I view incidents such as that one as interrelated with the events in Charlottesville. Why? Simple really. For over a decade now, there has been an attempt to harass, to silence, to intimidate, to fire, and to eliminate dissenting viewpoints from the so-called "marketplace of ideas". It started sometime around the lead up to the Iraq War with the Dixie Chicks, quickly escalated to the universities, and now continues to migrate into almost every area of our lives. Predictably, this has been a complete and abyssal failure. Rather than winning debates on the merits, these tactics have only radicalized certain segments of the population, in particular young white males like these idiots in Charlottesville.

James Damore, the author of the Google "manifesto", doesn't particularly strike me as a white nationalist radical, but he was all but portrayed as one in the media this past week, and was subsequently fired. If even honest attempts to debate are met with the intent to destroy one's livelihood, is it really a surprise that this would breed hostility, anger, and radicalism?

Sadly, I've seen little to no attempt by the hard left, which is basically the entire Democratic party these days, to come to grips with their complete intolerance for dissent. Having won the culture war, they've decided to shoot the survivors. For instance, it wasn't enough to shutter a business, a $135K fine HAD to follow for a family with several kids to feed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... orego.html
"The owners of a shuttered Gresham bakery must pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple for refusing to make them a wedding cake, the state's top labor official said Thursday.

State Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian ordered Aaron and Melissa Klein to pay the women for emotional and mental suffering that resulted from the denial of service. The Kleins had cited their Christian beliefs against same-sex marriage in refusing to make the cake."


If rather than using debates and words to settle differences we are now to use blunt force and the ruining of people's livelihoods, then certain unsavory elements of the country will use violence in response. And sadly, I don't expect it to get better - I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. What has not been acknowledged is that we are actually in the midst of a cold Civil War. Do you think this is exaggeration? Consider:

DocLightning wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
No he was a Trump voter, and he hasn't a single racist bone in his body.


100.00%, every single Trump voter, without exception, knowingly voted for a man who had said horribly racist things and who had openly courted Neo-Nazis.

That means that every single Trump voter is a racist. No exceptions. #YesAllTrumpers

Sorry if that hurts your feelings (no I'm not), but I just don't care about your feelings.


Here we have someone I'm sure would describe themselves as a "moderate" Democrat declaring that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that voted for Trump is a racist without exception. In other words, nearly half the country. I don't really see how this cycle ends without more violence. When the country decides it is ready to settle its differences with words and debates, then things will cool down. But I don't see that day on the horizon anytime soon, so in the meantime, the violence will continue.

I am not a Trump voter and am happy to condemn this incident, but what does difference does it make? There will be more like it to follow. As long as both sides continue to believe they have a monopoly on reason and virtue, and believe that their political opponents are all evil, nothing will change. When even educated, supposedly "sophisticated" people like Doc fall into the same traps as some redneck yahoos do, it's hard to feel optimistic. Humans are a tribal bunch and social media only encourages further tribalism.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:22 am

NoTime wrote:
Complete and utter nonsense. One need only look at the difference in coverage between the UVA killing vs. the terrorist shooting at Ft. Hood (excuse me, the "workplace violence" at Ft. Hood).


With reference to the 2008 Ft.Hood incident, the media did report on the possible radicalisation angle, so I don't see what got your goat. And AFAIK, It was the pentagon itself that dropped the terror angle in that particular incident? What are you upset about? That the media reported the bit about how the accused avoided targeting civilians? Was that bit incorrect?

As far as UVA is concerned, you have to be more specific. Not once in the multiple cases has the word terrorism ever been used. And thats my point. The terrorism angle did popup in the Ft.Hood incident because of the accused's religion. Is that right?

DocLightning wrote:
I know plenty of people who normally refuse to vote Democrat who either abstained or voted for Johnson (and a few for Hillary). I know a *lot* of people who "don't follow politics" and even they knew Donald Trump was a horrible racist.

But equally, did a lot of people who wanted to vote against Trump chose to vote against the Democrats because of "Voter-Fraud" within the DNC? I remember hearing "Bernie or bust" a lot during the campaign! A lot of people who wanted to vote against Trump found they couldn't because the other choice was "Crooked Hillary" (note the quotes).

Was there fraud in the DNC? Were the primaries fixed to benefit Hillary? The Democrats are equally responsible for Trump no?
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seb146
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:40 am

Mir wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
2. Right wing social media is wondering how this could happen. Really? Are they seriously asking this? After more than a decade of whites being told that whites are oppressed and whites have no voice and whites are always the victims, the right is wondering why the whites are violent?


Look, I think this whole situation is terrible, but the alt-right Nazi wannabe's have just as much right to free speech in this country as everyone. Don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As to the antiFa idiots, they have the right to free speech. But when you put a bunch of jackbooted, professional disturbance makers of antiFa next to the alt right, what do you expect to happen?

Maybe the antiFa idiots should get a job and do something productive, rather than pretending to be social justice warrior snowflakes.


Yes, if only people hadn't shown up to express their anger with Nazis and the KKK marching through their town, everything would have been nice and peaceful. Perhaps we should have let the Nazis and the KKK have their day, granted them some legitimacy. And then, their hunger for attention sated, they would surely have quietly gone away to hibernate until the same time next year as opposed to becoming emboldened to have more, larger, marches.


Here is the problem with the written word: No tone of voice for reference.

The neo Nazis and KKK have a right to march. The anti neo Nazis and anti KKK have a right to march. If something happens, hopefully that is why the police are there.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:50 am

DocLightning wrote:
I know plenty of people who normally refuse to vote Democrat who either abstained or voted for Johnson (and a few for Hillary). I know a *lot* of people who "don't follow politics" and even they knew Donald Trump was a horrible racist.

I simply refuse to believe that there is any competent adult in this country who voted and yet didn't know anything about Donald Trump.

Well, Doc.....you just don't know the same people that I know.

I just interviewed my dear, sweet, "just tell me who is the Democrat" and she certifies that, prior to voting last November, she had no idea that Mr. Trump was a horrible racist.

She also told me that presidential politics was not discussed even at social occasions at her church, and Mr. Trump never came up during the dozens of hours that she spent weekly on the telephone with many friends.

Then she dropped the bombshell when I asked her about a particular friend who thinks that I am a racist, that this friend was a big booster of Trump because she thought the Clintons and Obamas were evil.

I am of course speaking about my wife and her friends who are all Black Baptists.

Believe me, she heard me explode about "that asshole" numerous times during the campaign.

Lots of people blissfully tune out that which they don't want to hear. "Just show me who are the Democrats".
Last edited by BobPatterson on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
LMP737
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Re: White supremacists march at UVA

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:51 am

Dreadnought wrote:
All throughout the era of slavery and Jim Crow, the Black family was intact.


That's almost laughable if it were not so disturbingly inaccurate. During slavery families were broken apart all the time. Either the father was sold off or the mother or the children. During Jim Crow countless families were left without a father or even a child because they were lynched for some transgression.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
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