White supremacists march at UVA

Tugger · Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Regarding the statues/monuments:

There is a crucial difference between leaders like Washington and Jefferson, imperfect men who helped create the United States, Ms. Gordon-Reed said, and Confederate generals like Jackson and Lee, whose main historical significance is that they took up arms against it. The comparison, she added, also “misapprehends the moral problem with the Confederacy.”

“This is not about the personality of an individual and his or her flaws,” she said. “This is about men who organized a system of government to maintain a system of slavery and to destroy the American union.”
[...]
Some critics of Confederate monuments have called for them to be moved to museums, rather than destroyed, or even left in place and reinterpreted, to explain the context in which they were created. Mr. Grossman noted that most Confederate monuments were constructed in two periods: the 1890s, as Jim Crow was being established, and in the 1950s, during a period of mass Southern resistance to the civil rights movement.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/arts ... erson.html

Tugg

Osubuckeyes · Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:44 pm

Trump is an effing moron... Everything he is touching is going to complete piss... He surrounded himself with yes men, in which he doesn't even listen to... FFS I hope he resigns because absolutely nothing is gonna get done in the current discourse state that this country in. No government/society can operate in this vile environment where everything devolves into the least common denominator.

Dutchy · Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:48 pm

Trump's presidency is like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BvABn7L_So

Dutchy · Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:02 pm

On a lighter note, international cartoons: http://www.welingelichtekringen.nl/opin ... e-kkk.html

kaitak · Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:03 pm

It's just hard to believe ... If someone wrote a book two or three years ago about an American President who did even a fraction of what Trump has done (and said), it would be laughed out of a publisher's office. It's just frightening that we are in such uncharted territory. And then, after the press conference, he goes on to talk about his property and winery in Charlottesville ... I mean, is he really that unhinged that he sees it as relevant to mention that? Who is he addressing that to?

Again I come back to this question, exactly what does DT have to do or say for the Republicans to summon up the backbone to get rid of him? We're not even eight months into his Presidency and yet, he has achieved absolutely nothing - apart from dragging his office (and America's reputation) into the dirt. What else has to happen; to what further depths must he sink before people will say to him, "Mr. President, it's over; you can't go on; we cannot support you and you must resign"?

He has shown himself, persistently, to be ignorant, rude, dishonest, misogynistic, racist and now, clearly exposed as lacking a moral compass.

salttee · Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:21 pm

Tugger wrote:
Not just her, The Wal-mart CEO also came out challenging him:

But McMillon did not resign from Trump's council.

Tugger · Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:26 pm

salttee wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Not just her, The Wal-mart CEO also came out challenging him:

But McMillon did not resign from Trump's council.

Yes, I know. But I believe that too created a situation where Trump had disband the council(s) because even those that stayed on were also speaking out against his views.

Tugg

salttee · Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:31 pm

They were quitting so fast he had to fire them all.

wingman · Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:21 pm

I hope the Deep State hurries up. The only good that can come of this now is that we get to expose once and for all the white supremacists and KKK and Nazi sympathizers in our midst, even if they are too smart to get in TV with their Walmart tiki torches. There's plenty of 'em here on A.net, fully exposed for what they are right here on this thread. I have to say it also serves as a very helpful reminder that hatred, racism and anti-semitism still runs strong in the blood of many demented people. As sad as it is the exposure of them will help us to know who they are and thus be better prepared protect ourselves, our families and our country/ies against them.

einsteinboricua · Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
Plus, I don't think we should be erasing our past, however bad it was

Germany does a decent job remembering its past, yet you won't find a single public monument devoted to the greatness of Hitler, the SS, or the Nazis for that matter. History belongs in the museum. If we make space to remember history, let us remember those who made life better by advancing civil rights, not those who fought to keep others down.

The Confederacy and its figures are best remembered in museums and history books. The fact that people still, to this day, call themselves patriots by waving the battle flag of what was an act of treason against the Union is laughable. Tell these very same people that several non-Southern states wish to secede (because it's states' rights after all) and they'll have no qualms about the federal government sending their forces to keep the Union intact.

So to say that removing statues devoted to Confederate figures is "erasing our past" is utter nonsense. History is still in books, in museums, and in PRIVATE exhibits. If the government truly wanted to erase its past, do you think these statues would remain intact? They're the easiest target for them.

BobPatterson · Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:57 pm

wingman wrote:
I hope the Deep State hurries up. The only good that can come of this now is that we get to expose once and for all the white supremacists and KKK and Nazi sympathizers in our midst, even if they are too smart to get in TV with their Walmart tiki torches. There's plenty of 'em here on A.net, fully exposed for what they are right here on this thread. I have to say it also serves as a very helpful reminder that hatred, racism and anti-semitism still runs strong in the blood of many demented people. As sad as it is the exposure of them will help us to know who they are and thus be better prepared protect ourselves, our families and our country/ies against them.

It is too bad that you are unable to see in your own words the kind of hatred that you impute to others.

WIederling · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:01 pm

Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

BobPatterson · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:06 pm

WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

Sounds like alternate history to me. Did you see the action at Saddam's stature before the tank arrived to help pull it down? Or watch the fellow who smote the fallen leader with his sandal?

lebda · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:20 pm

pvjin wrote:
lebda wrote:
Won't somebody think of the poor knocked over garbage bins?

I'm more worried that some anarchist goes and burns my car as I'm a white man with middle-class parents.

lebda wrote:
The system is broken. The rich get richer and the middle class and poor get poorer. Everything that the upper class takes credit for and gets richer on is built off of the backs of the working class who often times can barely survive off of one job. When the poor, especially poor non-whites, are systematically disenfranchised, we have the right to stand up and tell the people that screw us over every day that we won't take their crap anymore. And yeah actually, some of those successful white men are bad. Not because they're white, but because they use their privilege as a tool to silence those who criticize them, or worse yet, completely turn a blind eye to suffering.

Sure it's broken especially in the US, but I think there are better ways to fix it than blaming white men for everything and destroying property.

lebda wrote:
I responded to somebody else who said something similar earlier, but comparing antifa to Bolsheviks or calling them successors to the Soviets is not only wrong but historically inaccurate. Anarcho-communists do not believe in statism and have long criticized and even fought the USSR.

I'm not exactly convinced that those antifa anarcho-commies wouldn't create a state of their own if they got a chance. Anybody with half a brain knows that you need a state for any stable, safe and successful society. Somebody must have control, somebody must be able to enforce laws as otherwise stronger will always be fully free to take advantage of the weaker.

Either "anarcho-communism" is just a way to create chaos in present state to make it collapse in favour of a new state, or anarcho-commies are even more naive than I thought. Or perhaps there are both kind of people in antifa.

Dude. Can you read?

ThePointblank · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:26 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

Sounds like alternate history to me. Did you see the action at Saddam's stature before the tank arrived to help pull it down? Or watch the fellow who smote the fallen leader with his sandal?

Not really:
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/L ... 115858.php

Shortly after the world was wowed by TV coverage of the toppling of Saddam's statue, doubts were raised. A Reuters photo of the square was circulated showing a much smaller crowd than the close-up TV footage implied. Eyewitness accounts belied the news coverage of a "jubilant" crowd: " ... it happened at only about 300 meters from where I was, and it was a very small crowd. The rest of the square was almost empty, and when we inquired as to where the crowd came from, it was from Saddam City (a poor neighborhood some distance away). In other words, it was a rent-a-crowd" (Rev. Neville Watson, interviewed on SBS-TV, Australia).

British columnist Robert Fisk, writing from Baghdad on April 11 for The Independent, described the statue episode as " ... the most staged photo opportunity since Iwo Jima." And this from David Robie, senior lecturer at Auckland University of Technology: "I watched BBC World in the lead-up to the toppling. The square was largely empty except for three strategically positioned U.S. Abrams tanks and an armored personnel carrier plus a small paltry crowd of 100 or so, many of then apparently journalists. A BBC World news presenter kept asking, 'Where is everybody?' "

Dutchy · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:33 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

Sounds like alternate history to me. Did you see the action at Saddam's stature before the tank arrived to help pull it down? Or watch the fellow who smote the fallen leader with his sandal?

Not alternate history, but controversy, we don't know if it was staged:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Sq ... estruction

pvjin · Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:42 pm

lebda wrote:
Dude. Can you read?

Yes.

GDB · Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:03 pm

SOBHI51 wrote:
I promised myself never to interfere with American politics, but can somebody explain why the white nationalist came armed to the teeth if it was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration?
See minute 19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg

Imagine if the Black Lives Matter or any similar group against racism came along to a demo tooled up?
Trump would be tweeting so hard he'd strain his tiny hands, FOX would have gone mad, then there is a question of if the police would have allowed it. Which seems unlikely.

DIRECTFLT · Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:40 pm

Heather Heyer's Dad Speaks About Forgiveness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFCfoTReF4

DIRECTFLT · Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:45 pm

socalgeo wrote:
This is the reality of the Antifa today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg

There is nothing noble or virtuous about hitting someone in the head with a bike lock.

Tugger · Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:01 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
This is the reality of the Antifa today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg

There is nothing noble or virtuous about hitting someone in the head with a bike lock.

Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

jetero · Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:11 pm

Tugger wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
This is the reality of the Antifa today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg

There is nothing noble or virtuous about hitting someone in the head with a bike lock.

Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

What do you think?

These guys are as transparent as Trump.

CaliAtenza · Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:12 am

WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

That's actually not how it played out; I remember watching that live... the locals got the US forces to help them...

seb146 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:36 am

jetero wrote:
Tugger wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

What do you think?

These guys are as transparent as Trump.

Let's take a look at what both sides stand for. They are the same, after all:

One side wants the wholesale eradication of entire races and cultures because they are inferior. The other side thinks that is a horrible idea.

Yeah, that's the same....

jetero · Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:30 am

seb146 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

What do you think?

These guys are as transparent as Trump.

Let's take a look at what both sides stand for. They are the same, after all:

One side wants the wholesale eradication of entire races and cultures because they are inferior. The other side thinks that is a horrible idea.

Yeah, that's the same....

Indeed.

I guess at least Hillary hasn't come up in this debate. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out that people think she singlehandedly started this antifa, whatever it is.

WarRI1 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:50 am

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/robe ... 34970.html

Above, the words of Robert E. Lee himself. I now agree with him, it was a mistake to perpetuate this horrible era in our history. At one time I was skeptical about removing these monuments to human Monsters. Slave owners and their acolytes and today's believers.
.

MaverickM11 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:20 am

You know when militia groups--who are right wing lunatics to begin with--condemn you for being a nutjob, you have erred.

Militia leaders who descended on Charlottesville condemn 'rightwing lunatics'
Members of armed groups, who decry violence and racism, say they visited Virginia to defend free speech – but white nationalists had ‘come to fight’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... h-violence

Tugger wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
This is the reality of the Antifa today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg

There is nothing noble or virtuous about hitting someone in the head with a bike lock.

Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

Who would the right blame for their nazi/white supremacist friends if they didn't have the fig leaf of Antifa, and of course their favorite scapegoat, black people?

tommy1808 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:38 am

kaitak wrote:
It's just hard to believe ... If someone wrote a book two or three years ago about an American President who did even a fraction of what Trump has done (and said), it would be laughed out of a publisher's office.

Read Stephen Coonts "LIBERTY'S LAST STAND", he made it past the publisher. While just a thinly vailed Obama character assesination, the description of his president in the book is so smack on 1:1 Donald Trump, it is very entertaining.

Best regards
Thomas

socalgeo · Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:02 am

Tugger wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
This is the reality of the Antifa today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg

There is nothing noble or virtuous about hitting someone in the head with a bike lock.

Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

My friend, I've posted multiple times an affirmative response to what you are asking but you don't seem to care. You have also accused me of posting things that I did not post. Its disappointing. I'd ask that you at least make some attempt at fairness in context. My post was in reply to a poster who compared the Antifa movement to the men who stormed Normandy beach in WW2. Which is a totally ridiculous comparison. In no way can that be interpreted as support for supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists or anyone else.

lebda · Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:15 am

jetero wrote:
seb146 wrote:
jetero wrote:

What do you think?

These guys are as transparent as Trump.

Let's take a look at what both sides stand for. They are the same, after all:

One side wants the wholesale eradication of entire races and cultures because they are inferior. The other side thinks that is a horrible idea.

Yeah, that's the same....

Indeed.

I guess at least Hillary hasn't come up in this debate. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out that people think she singlehandedly started this antifa, whatever it is.

That's almost as funny as the 'ol Soros Bucks™ thing.

casinterest · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:15 am

socalgeo wrote:
Tugger wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

My friend, I've posted multiple times an affirmative response to what you are asking but you don't seem to care. You have also accused me of posting things that I did not post. Its disappointing. I'd ask that you at least make some attempt at fairness in context. My post was in reply to a poster who compared the Antifa movement to the men who stormed Normandy beach in WW2. Which is a totally ridiculous comparison. In no way can that be interpreted as support for supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists or anyone else.

Does anyone else see just the slightest ounce of hypocrisy here, or am I just remember things from earlier in the thread wrong?

seahawk · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:16 am

Nothing stops the Trump Train!! It will smash right through the opposition!!

casinterest · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:17 am

casinterest wrote:
socalgeo wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Just when you thought it couldn't get worse. Trump managed to totally outdo himself this evening. He destroyed himself with some very bad moral equivalencies. I am not even sure he actually spoke of infrastructure as he is currently working to divide the country.

So after condemning the white supremacists under no uncertain terms, and calling the murderer a disgrace, he also points out that there was unacceptable violence on both sides and you say that this is a bad thing.

Is this because you condone violence as long as you agree with the perpetrators?

Sickening

Trump said taking these memorials down was revisionist history. No it wasn't. the revisionist history was when these statues were put up in the 1920's at the heyday of the KKK and Jim Crow laws. They sought to intimidate and invoke fear. Their was no honor in states that pushed slavery and broke from the union for it.

The gathering of those that continue to worship the Confederacy and what it stood for are standing up for inequality, the denial of liberty, and the denial of happiness for those of less fortune.

The intiial protest was invoked by people that walked the streets with Torches on Friday night using the slogans of the KKK/White Nationalist/Nazi's and other organizations that sought to deny people's right to life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

What happened on Saturday, was a brawl and a riot, but it happened because people came to spread hate.
If my disgust with a president that says their were good people amongst those spreading a message of hate sickens you, then I hope you are sick to your stomach for a long time.

If you want to take my disgust with a President who compares people looking for acceptance and equality with a bunch of bigots and racists in a brawl and tries to equate them, then I am completely disgusted with him.

But please with your superb intellect, show me where I condoned the violence? Seriously . Show me.

Because all this board see and I see is another gaslighting attempt by a person so wound up in worship for a sick man that he will look for what is not there to defend him.

Oh here it is .

casinterest · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:21 am

seahawk wrote:
Nothing stops the Trump Train!! It will smash right through the opposition!!

This picture is fake news.

Trump can't stay on the tracks even with guidance from his loyal pets.

jetero · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:57 am

casinterest wrote:
casinterest wrote:
socalgeo wrote:

So after condemning the white supremacists under no uncertain terms, and calling the murderer a disgrace, he also points out that there was unacceptable violence on both sides and you say that this is a bad thing.

Is this because you condone violence as long as you agree with the perpetrators?

Sickening

Trump said taking these memorials down was revisionist history. No it wasn't. the revisionist history was when these statues were put up in the 1920's at the heyday of the KKK and Jim Crow laws. They sought to intimidate and invoke fear. Their was no honor in states that pushed slavery and broke from the union for it.

The gathering of those that continue to worship the Confederacy and what it stood for are standing up for inequality, the denial of liberty, and the denial of happiness for those of less fortune.

The intiial protest was invoked by people that walked the streets with Torches on Friday night using the slogans of the KKK/White Nationalist/Nazi's and other organizations that sought to deny people's right to life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

What happened on Saturday, was a brawl and a riot, but it happened because people came to spread hate.
If my disgust with a president that says their were good people amongst those spreading a message of hate sickens you, then I hope you are sick to your stomach for a long time.

If you want to take my disgust with a President who compares people looking for acceptance and equality with a bunch of bigots and racists in a brawl and tries to equate them, then I am completely disgusted with him.

But please with your superb intellect, show me where I condoned the violence? Seriously . Show me.

Because all this board see and I see is another gaslighting attempt by a person so wound up in worship for a sick man that he will look for what is not there to defend him.

Oh here it is .

SCG is an idiot of the first class variety, with no moral compass, which makes him prone to making false equivalencies.

He's down in the dumps. Two months ago he was doing a gleeful tea dance (tea party?) about how great Trump was. He's very ugly when on the defensive. Probably no fault of his own. This sort of thing is indefensible so you have to make it up and deflect as you go along. We are in uncharted territory.

DIRECTFLT · Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:08 am

seb146 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Is anybody disagreeing that assaulting someone is wrong and not condoned?

And if this is "the antifa today" (four months ago) then I assume you would state the same and go after every group that attacks or has attacked others with the same gusto? Such as supremists, nazi-wannabes, racsists of all ilks, etc.?

Tugg

What do you think?

These guys are as transparent as Trump.

Let's take a look at what both sides stand for. They are the same, after all:

One side wants the wholesale eradication of entire races and cultures because they are inferior. The other side thinks that is a horrible idea.

Yeah, that's the same....

Where is this one side you speak of???

The Nazis want certain races, ie, the Jewish race, exterminated.

The White Supremacists want all blacks in their domain to be subservient.

And then there's white Nationalists. So what's wrong with being white and a "Nationalist"?

If you're white and a Globalist, is that Okay??

seb146 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:28 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
jetero wrote:

What do you think?

These guys are as transparent as Trump.

Let's take a look at what both sides stand for. They are the same, after all:

One side wants the wholesale eradication of entire races and cultures because they are inferior. The other side thinks that is a horrible idea.

Yeah, that's the same....

Where is this one side you speak of???

The Nazis want certain races, ie, the Jewish race, exterminated.

The White Supremacists want all blacks in their domain to be subservient.

And then there's white Nationalists. So what's wrong with being white and a "Nationalist"?

If you're white and a Globalist, is that Okay??

Thanks for letting us know who you are. That you support segregation and forcing those with different skin colors to be treated as second class citizens.

Because you have not been following the plot line, white nationalists are KKK. And neo-Nazis.

BTW, why were there no tanks and water cannons at the white supremacist/alt-right rallies? Like there are at BLM and Standing Rock?

DocLightning · Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:34 am

BobPatterson wrote:
It is too bad that you are unable to see in your own words the kind of hatred that you impute to others.

"The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi."
-My father, WWII Veteran

If you disagree, you dishonor his memory and the memory of every Allied soldier, living or dead, who fought against their scourge.

As for those who choose to be a Nazis, they made their choices.

Dutchy · Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:41 am

DocLightning wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
It is too bad that you are unable to see in your own words the kind of hatred that you impute to others.

"The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi."
-My father, WWII Veteran

If you disagree, you dishonor his memory and the memory of every Allied soldier, living or dead, who fought against their scourge.

As for those who choose to be a Nazis, they made their choices.

How about the memory of the 10-20 million of people whom were murdered by the NAZI's? Jews, Gipsies, handicapped, gays, people whom opposed them etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

The ideology was that the Germans/whites were a superior race and that stands out.

pvjin · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:39 pm

Dutchy wrote:
How about the memory of the 10-20 million of people whom were murdered by the NAZI's? Jews, Gipsies, handicapped, gays, people whom opposed them etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I think they are remembered rather well compared to all the millions killed by Stalin and Pol Pot in name of Communism. Funny how sickle and hammer aren't treated like Nazi Swastika.

DocLightning · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:47 pm

pvjin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
How about the memory of the 10-20 million of people whom were murdered by the NAZI's? Jews, Gipsies, handicapped, gays, people whom opposed them etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I think they are remembered rather well compared to all the millions killed by Stalin and Pol Pot in name of Communism. Funny how sickle and hammer aren't treated like Nazi Swastika.

For probably the first and last time in my life, I agree with pjvin.

WIederling · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:49 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

Sounds like alternate history to me. Did you see the action at Saddam's stature before the tank arrived to help pull it down? Or watch the fellow who smote the fallen leader with his sandal?

We could discuss who's history is the alternate one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Sq ... ng_Reports

tommy1808 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:49 pm

pvjin wrote:
Funny how sickle and hammer aren't treated like Nazi Swastika.

which organisations currently trying to subvert their own or other countries constitutions use Sickle and Hammer as a symbol?

best regards
Thomas

WIederling · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 pm

CaliAtenza wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Didn't the US take down statues in Iraq ?

Yup. with staged help from payed locals to give it that "bringing democracy and warm/friendly smells" touch.

That's actually not how it played out; I remember watching that live... the locals got the US forces to help them...

broken record:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Sq ... ng_Reports

What is regularly surprising is that there seems to be zero learning from the past and its information fakes.

Super80Fan · Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:57 pm

My grandfathers, who fought in WWII are rolling in their graves over both sides, one side for advocating the Nazi/racist agenda whom they fought against and also being compared to the Antifa terrorist group. Absolutely revolting times we live in.

tommy1808 · Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:05 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Absolutely revolting times we live in.

Disgusting comes to mind. Well.. it is the head of Gouvernement that wrote into a holocaust memorials guestbook that is was great coming there with his friends, so wonderful and he will never forget......

Given his most recent reactions it makes much more sense. For him the memorial is about those great Nazi and what they accomplished i presume......

best regards
Thomas

aerosreenivas · Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:02 pm

Should the statues of the Confederate leaders be dismantled across the US? By doing this do you guys feel it will reduce the momentum from these Alt-Right protesters?

Dutchy · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:10 pm

pvjin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
How about the memory of the 10-20 million of people whom were murdered by the NAZI's? Jews, Gipsies, handicapped, gays, people whom opposed them etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I think they are remembered rather well compared to all the millions killed by Stalin and Pol Pot in name of Communism. Funny how sickle and hammer aren't treated like Nazi Swastika.

Strange remark. Don't know what you are actually saying? Are you trying to make it into a political issue? The extreme left did it too, so it's a bit more normal?

seahawk · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Dutchy wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
How about the memory of the 10-20 million of people whom were murdered by the NAZI's? Jews, Gipsies, handicapped, gays, people whom opposed them etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I think they are remembered rather well compared to all the millions killed by Stalin and Pol Pot in name of Communism. Funny how sickle and hammer aren't treated like Nazi Swastika.

Strange remark. Don't know what you are actually saying? Are you trying to make it into a political issue? The extreme left did it too, so it's a bit more normal?

It is a fair remark though. In the end what did Nazi Germany do? There were so many good things happening there. They built highways, now who does not like highways, they greatly supported scientific breakthrough especially in the medicine field by giving doctors freedom to experiment, they had the jet engine, people had jobs, they reduced the influence of pan-national capitalists, they supported national freedom and patriotism, they fought the liberal left in Germany. Some of them surely were some really nice people. *

*This post might contain slight doses of sarcasm.

pvjin · Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:35 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
which organisations currently trying to subvert their own or other countries constitutions use Sickle and Hammer as a symbol?

Many communist parties around the western world.

Dutchy wrote:
Strange remark. Don't know what you are actually saying? Are you trying to make it into a political issue? The extreme left did it too, so it's a bit more normal?

What I'm saying is that there are clear double standards in action here. It would be more historically accurate to judge Communism and Nazism to be equally bad ideologies.

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