Airstud
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Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:14 pm

It's a relief to know this kind of idiocy isn't unique to America:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-immigr ... ng-burqas/
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Tugger
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:23 pm

It basically shows what is already known: That people will see what they want to see and accept that as fact or proof without looking further. And that what we "see" can often be influenced by our bias/prejudices and fears.

This is why eye witness testimony is being proven wrong often enough to be a true concern.

Tugg
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KLDC10
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:51 pm

Tugger wrote:
This is why eye witness testimony is being proven wrong often enough to be a true concern.


Good point. Not to go too far off topic, but quite often when I'm recalling a past trip or event to friends, I turn to my photographs to make sure that I'm getting the details right. Sure, I have a good memory, but I like to be certain.

Also, from what I understand, this picture was posted to "bait" the users into responding. Which goes to show the importance of actually checking what you're looking at before passing comment and not simply trusting that what you have been presented with is true.
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Airstud
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:04 am

Amusingly, a few cagey Muslims have figured out how to turn widespread fear of "muslamic writing" to their advantage:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-40530656
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pvjin
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:08 am

Airstud wrote:
Amusingly, a few cagey Muslims have figured out how to turn widespread fear of "muslamic writing" to their advantage:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-40530656


Good for them. Maybe some day those donuts will give them courage to fight radical elements in European Islamic communities, without terrorist attacks caused by radical Islam and clowns who demand Sharia to Europe nobody would have any rational reason to discriminate, hate or fear Muslims or Islam.

Radical Islam is the problem, islamophobia is a mere symptom of it, a natural consequence of bloodshed. Instead of laughing at those Norwegian islamophobes we should feel compassion.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Tugger
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:22 am

pvjin wrote:
and clowns who demand Sharia to Europe rational reason to discriminate, hate or fear Muslims or Islam.

Demanding sharia shouldn't be an issue or problem. Just only allow what is allowed within the secular law. We have our own religious entities here in the USA that keep wanting their own special laws and practices allowed (simple example fundamentalist Mormons like the FLDS or followers of Santeria). They certain things are allowed and others are not and the law remains the law....

Tugg
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seb146
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:48 am

pvjin wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Amusingly, a few cagey Muslims have figured out how to turn widespread fear of "muslamic writing" to their advantage:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-40530656


Good for them. Maybe some day those donuts will give them courage to fight radical elements in European Islamic communities, without terrorist attacks caused by radical Islam and clowns who demand Sharia to Europe nobody would have any rational reason to discriminate, hate or fear Muslims or Islam.

Radical Islam is the problem, islamophobia is a mere symptom of it, a natural consequence of bloodshed. Instead of laughing at those Norwegian islamophobes we should feel compassion.


And that is because there is the reinforced stereotype that "all Muslims" are violent. For years, the right has perpetuated this stereotype and people believe it. There are violent people who happen to practice Islam. That does not make all Muslims violent. If people want to use that reasoning, all Christians are violent because there are some Christians who are violent. Same logic.
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pvjin
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:15 am

Tugger wrote:
Demanding sharia shouldn't be an issue or problem. Just only allow what is allowed within the secular law. We have our own religious entities here in the USA that keep wanting their own special laws and practices allowed (simple example fundamentalist Mormons like the FLDS or followers of Santeria). They certain things are allowed and others are not and the law remains the law....


I guess demands alone aren't a problem, but the same sects of Islam whose followers demand stuff like this tend to also spawn terrorists. It's hard to fight terrorism effectively if you can't fight the ideology.

seb146 wrote:
And that is because there is the reinforced stereotype that "all Muslims" are violent. For years, the right has perpetuated this stereotype and people believe it. There are violent people who happen to practice Islam. That does not make all Muslims violent. If people want to use that reasoning, all Christians are violent because there are some Christians who are violent. Same logic.


There aren't just violent people who happen to practice Islam, there are some sects of Islam that have a violent ideology and encourage their followers to behave in a violent way.

Currently the west seems to be extremely incompetent at fighting these violent sects of Islam, claiming that they don't even exist and that terrorist attacks have nothing to do with any form of Islam certainly doesn't help.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
tommy1808
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:18 am

pvjin wrote:
There aren't just violent people who happen to practice Islam, there are some sects of Islam that have a violent ideology and encourage their followers to behave in a violent way.

Currently the west seems to be extremely incompetent at fighting these violent sects of Islam, claiming that they don't even exist and that terrorist attacks have nothing to do with any form of Islam certainly doesn't help.


So, again, no difference from Christian groups.

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pvjin
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:25 am

tommy1808 wrote:
pvjin wrote:
There aren't just violent people who happen to practice Islam, there are some sects of Islam that have a violent ideology and encourage their followers to behave in a violent way.

Currently the west seems to be extremely incompetent at fighting these violent sects of Islam, claiming that they don't even exist and that terrorist attacks have nothing to do with any form of Islam certainly doesn't help.


So, again, no difference from Christian groups.

Best regards
Thomas


Sure, radical Christian groups just generally don't seem to think massacring a lot of random civilians will be rewarded in the paradise, which makes them much less of a terror threat globally. And then of course in Europe radical Christian groups with tendency for serious violence are almost non-existent anyway.
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:13 am

Tugger wrote:
. Just only allow what is allowed within the secular law. We have our own religious entities here in the USA that keep wanting their own special laws and practices allowed (simple example fundamentalist Mormons like the FLDS or followers of Santeria). They certain things are allowed and others are not and the law remains the law....

Tugg


Not sure if hardcore Mormons are a good example. They have been happily inbreeding and degenerating DESPITE the law, have they not?
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:14 am

pvjin wrote:
And then of course in Europe radical Christian groups with tendency for serious violence are almost non-existent anyway.


You mean aside of clergy and all those Christian sekts that abuse their children I presume. But yeah, Europe is relatively safe, due to wide spread only cultural Religiosity, agnosticism and atheism.

The last Christian genocide is just 2 decades ago.

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Thomas
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:49 pm

Storm in a tea cup. They DO look like muslim women in burqas (that was my first impression too). What's the big deal?
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:13 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
pvjin wrote:
And then of course in Europe radical Christian groups with tendency for serious violence are almost non-existent anyway.


You mean aside of clergy and all those Christian sekts that abuse their children I presume. But yeah, Europe is relatively safe, due to wide spread only cultural Religiosity, agnosticism and atheism.

The last Christian genocide is just 2 decades ago.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes, all those honour killings committed by christian families are awful...oh wait...

Seriously now, I used to be really religiously tolerant. I'm an atheist, but I didn't mind religions and religious people. I considered it their personal thing (and I still do). I didn't even mind if some religious person tried to persuade me that a religion is a great thing. After all, he or she has a right to religion and an opinion about it.
However, seeing what's going in the world religion seems to me more and more as a mental disease. C'mon now, kids blowing themselves up in name of religion feels normal to anybody? Ireland not allowing an abortion even in the extremely rare case of pregnancy caused by a rape is normal? Or some central american countries imprisoning women for miscarriages? Sorry, I simply can not consider behaviour like this a sign of sound mental health.
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:56 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
pvjin wrote:
And then of course in Europe radical Christian groups with tendency for serious violence are almost non-existent anyway.


You mean aside of clergy and all those Christian sekts that abuse their children I presume. But yeah, Europe is relatively safe, due to wide spread only cultural Religiosity, agnosticism and atheism.

The last Christian genocide is just 2 decades ago.

Best regards
Thomas


Yes, all those honour killings committed by christian families are awful...oh wait...


Yeah, they are rare, but exists as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... a90fd96839

Seriously now, I used to be really religiously tolerant.


me too

but I didn't mind religions


I mind religion the exact same way i mind AIDS and Cancer.

and religious people.


i mind those just as much as people with AIDS or Cancer: Not at all, not really their fault, i´d still rather have an AIDS and Cancer free world.

I considered it their personal thing (and I still do).


Yup, in the same sense Tuberculosis is. That may has a higher lethality if untreated than an infection with religion, but is easier to treat.

However, seeing what's going in the world religion seems to me more and more as a mental disease.


It is not *like* a mental disease, it quickly becomes a real one and does effect logical thinking even in mild forms, you get blind towards inconsistencies in your own religion, while not having any problems spotting those in other religions.

Sorry, I simply can not consider behaviour like this a sign of sound mental health.


And this is why religion and proper education are mortal enemies. One is the vaccine against the other. Big problem is that many parents feed their kids BS before they have a shot at education.

best regards
Thomas
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seb146
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:40 pm

pvjin wrote:
There aren't just violent people who happen to practice Islam, there are some sects of Islam that have a violent ideology and encourage their followers to behave in a violent way.

Currently the west seems to be extremely incompetent at fighting these violent sects of Islam, claiming that they don't even exist and that terrorist attacks have nothing to do with any form of Islam certainly doesn't help.


Just like there are violent sects of Christianity. Therefore, ALL Christians are violent terrorists.

As far as your second statement, that is just wrong. The biggest problem is that "the west" has been conditioned to equate Islam with violence that too many of us can not separate the two. Way too many of us can not make a distinction and just interchange those two terms. The same thing is happening with the terms "Mexican" and "illegal immigrant." They are being used interchangeable and very few people care.

And, yes, it is very hard to fight the violence. Look at the United States. Mass shooters are white men. I fit in that category. Therefore, I have to be suspected in every mass shooting and should never be trusted because mass shooters are white men.

When the victims look the same as the perpetrators, it is hard to find the bad guy.
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Airstud
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:21 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
Storm in a tea cup. They DO look like muslim women in burqas (that was my first impression too). What's the big deal?


I think they look just a tad like storm troopers.
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:41 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Storm in a tea cup. They DO look like muslim women in burqas (that was my first impression too). What's the big deal?


I agree, at first glance, very deceiving in a photo situation. It could also be very clever if not connected to Muslims and their religion in this crazy world these days. No sense of humor left for many people. One has to wonder why?
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:27 am

Airstud wrote:
It's a relief to know this kind of idiocy isn't unique to America:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-immigr ... ng-burqas/


Has anyone ever heard of satire, the original FB posting the guy who posted it was taking the piss, nobody thought they were actual people, the joke really is on all the idiots who thought these people were actually thinking the rather obvious seats were women.
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:46 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Airstud wrote:
It's a relief to know this kind of idiocy isn't unique to America:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-immigr ... ng-burqas/


Has anyone ever heard of satire, the original FB posting the guy who posted it was taking the piss, nobody thought they were actual people, the joke really is on all the idiots who thought these people were actually thinking the rather obvious seats were women.


Gross.
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Amusingly, a few cagey Muslims have figured out how to turn widespread fear of "muslamic writing" to their advantage:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-40530656


Good for them. Maybe some day those donuts will give them courage to fight radical elements in European Islamic communities, without terrorist attacks caused by radical Islam and clowns who demand Sharia to Europe nobody would have any rational reason to discriminate, hate or fear Muslims or Islam.

Radical Islam is the problem, islamophobia is a mere symptom of it, a natural consequence of bloodshed. Instead of laughing at those Norwegian islamophobes we should feel compassion.


And that is because there is the reinforced stereotype that "all Muslims" are violent. For years, the right has perpetuated this stereotype and people believe it. There are violent people who happen to practice Islam. That does not make all Muslims violent. If people want to use that reasoning, all Christians are violent because there are some Christians who are violent. Same logic.


Not all Muslims are violent, but that's no excuse for not giving the ideology the criticism it needs and deserves. 'The right' doesn't need to tell us anything in order to figure that out for ourselves. But it's not a groundless stereotype, Islam is not peaceful. This is why it's helpful to make the distinction between the ideology and people.

The reasoning some of us want to use is 'religion is not really pleasant, so we want to criticise it so it can become less unpleasant'. Simply giving it a free pass because... well just because is not an avenue to better things.
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:09 pm

Tugger wrote:
pvjin wrote:
and clowns who demand Sharia to Europe rational reason to discriminate, hate or fear Muslims or Islam.

Demanding sharia shouldn't be an issue or problem. Just only allow what is allowed within the secular law. We have our own religious entities here in the USA that keep wanting their own special laws and practices allowed (simple example fundamentalist Mormons like the FLDS or followers of Santeria). They certain things are allowed and others are not and the law remains the law....

Tugg


Islamic beliefs are that everyone must convert to Islam. If you don't, you are an infidel. The trouble with your statement is what happens to America if Islam becomes 51% of the population and islamists grab control of the government. You reckon demanding sharia law won't be a problem then? Laws can be changed.
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:51 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
seb146 wrote:
pvjin wrote:

Good for them. Maybe some day those donuts will give them courage to fight radical elements in European Islamic communities, without terrorist attacks caused by radical Islam and clowns who demand Sharia to Europe nobody would have any rational reason to discriminate, hate or fear Muslims or Islam.

Radical Islam is the problem, islamophobia is a mere symptom of it, a natural consequence of bloodshed. Instead of laughing at those Norwegian islamophobes we should feel compassion.


And that is because there is the reinforced stereotype that "all Muslims" are violent. For years, the right has perpetuated this stereotype and people believe it. There are violent people who happen to practice Islam. That does not make all Muslims violent. If people want to use that reasoning, all Christians are violent because there are some Christians who are violent. Same logic.


Not all Muslims are violent, but that's no excuse for not giving the ideology the criticism it needs and deserves. 'The right' doesn't need to tell us anything in order to figure that out for ourselves. But it's not a groundless stereotype, Islam is not peaceful. This is why it's helpful to make the distinction between the ideology and people.

The reasoning some of us want to use is 'religion is not really pleasant, so we want to criticise it so it can become less unpleasant'. Simply giving it a free pass because... well just because is not an avenue to better things.


Christianity is not a peaceful religion, either. People use Christianity to beat and kill others all the time. Look at violence and hatred toward LGBTQ+ and the Latino community.

You were actually so close, so let me help you:

It is not religion itself but how people use it to manipulate others.
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
Christianity is not a peaceful religion, either. People use Christianity to beat and kill others all the time. Look at violence and hatred toward LGBTQ+ and the Latino community.


1. I agree. But I never claimed it was.
2. It would be nice if you could actually respond to my point without just saying 'well Christianity is bad as well', you already know I think Christianity is bad, which is why I've turned my back on it. You're not any closer to being able to actually debate my point without just going back to things you're comfortable ranting about. Maybe one day you'll be able to criticise Islam for its homophobic, misogynistic, authoritarian and discriminatory parts, but it appears you're quite happy to let those slide. Shame to see people kowtowing to unpleasant characteristics.

You were actually so close, so let me help you:

It is not religion itself but how people use it to manipulate others.


You're right. Religion itself is just a load of tripe that's best ignored, and the fact that people use it to manipulate is worrying and sad. Either way, criticise religion and things get better, don't and they don't get better.
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:21 pm

Freakysh wrote:
Islamic beliefs are that everyone must convert to Islam. If you don't, you are an infidel. The trouble with your statement is what happens to America if Islam becomes 51% of the population and islamists grab control of the government. You reckon demanding sharia law won't be a problem then? Laws can be changed.

You are making gigantic assumptions and extrapolations without any true basis, just supposition.

The Muslims I know do not believe "everyone must convert" (yes I know it is a stated part of their religion but many distasteful and draconian elements are stated parts of almost all religions yet they overcome that. Most religious people are lousy followers of their religions if you compare their holy texts to their actions.). Second though "laws can be changed" to simply state that as some kind of justification is not an argument with any trust force or validity. I mean if you are following that logic then you can even more easily say that most laws in the USA have moved toward reducing religious influence in society. So that is at least as likely as what you are suggesting and has more evidence to support it.

And as to your "what if 51%"... you do realize the Constitution requires 2/3 of legislatures to begin the process to change it and 3/4 to implement the change.

Tugg
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:53 pm

Tugg, as we have seen recently, even well under 50% of the American people can fully control the country. I think to control Congress, you only need 51% of the vote in 51% of the states... so that is about 25% of the voters can implement their policy in houses of Congress.

The same goes for presidential primaries; even more so. You just have to be the tallest midget in the primary. If you have maybe 30% of your primary, you are likely to win it. Then you have a 50/50 shot at the presidency. So you can win the presidency with only a hard core of 15-20% of the country.
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:30 pm

Tugger wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Islamic beliefs are that everyone must convert to Islam. If you don't, you are an infidel. The trouble with your statement is what happens to America if Islam becomes 51% of the population and islamists grab control of the government. You reckon demanding sharia law won't be a problem then? Laws can be changed.

You are making gigantic assumptions and extrapolations without any true basis, just supposition.

The Muslims I know do not believe "everyone must convert" (yes I know it is a stated part of their religion but many distasteful and draconian elements are stated parts of almost all religions yet they overcome that. Most religious people are lousy followers of their religions if you compare their holy texts to their actions.). Second though "laws can be changed" to simply state that as some kind of justification is not an argument with any trust force or validity. I mean if you are following that logic then you can even more easily say that most laws in the USA have moved toward reducing religious influence in society. So that is at least as likely as what you are suggesting and has more evidence to support it.

And as to your "what if 51%"... you do realize the Constitution requires 2/3 of legislatures to begin the process to change it and 3/4 to implement the change.

Tugg


Your Muslim friends would turn against you if push came to shove and sharia law was implemented in the US, don't be naive.

Yes religious influence is moving away in politics and society because the modern West has evolved and become more educated. Islam still has a hell of a way to go, if it were to take control, you'll be going backwards 300 years. Islam is not compatible with Western life, that's just the way it is.
 
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:48 pm

Why is anyone even discussing a Muslim majority and the imposition of Sharia law in the US? That's not realistic under any scenario. Muslims comprise just over 1% of the US population, and are projected to grow to 2.1% by 2050. Let's stick to debating what is realistic rather than a fantasy scenario, unlikely to come about in the foreseeable future.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... opulation/
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Tugger
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:16 pm

Flighty wrote:
Tugg, as we have seen recently, even well under 50% of the American people can fully control the country. I think to control Congress, you only need 51% of the vote in 51% of the states... so that is about 25% of the voters can implement their policy in houses of Congress.

The same goes for presidential primaries; even more so. You just have to be the tallest midget in the primary. If you have maybe 30% of your primary, you are likely to win it. Then you have a 50/50 shot at the presidency. So you can win the presidency with only a hard core of 15-20% of the country.

He is talking about dismantling the Constitution and constitutional protections. 51% will not do that. Maybe 51% in 2/3 of the states but that is not a simple barrier nor is it likely nor would it be fast.

Tugg
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:27 pm

Freakysh wrote:
Your Muslim friends would turn against you if push came to shove and sharia law was implemented in the US, don't be naive.

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. (Unless you happen to know "my Muslim friends".) Again sharia law cannot be implemented in the USA in any "easy" or quick way unless there is some type of complete change or failure of the nation (as in the USA is conquered or destroyed etc.). Robust protections against religion becoming law have been ongoing throughout our history. As I said our constitution has time and again done its job.

If I am being naive then you are equally being foolish in your fear mongering: "if push came to shove and sharia law was implemented in the US"... really that is what you are selling as truth and reality? That is what is going to happen today? Or tomorrow? How about in twenty years? Is that what you are stating as fact to base your conjecture/argument? Good 'ol fake news is alive and well and dwelling in the hearts and minds of many Americans these days apparently.

Tugg
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

OA412 wrote:
Why is anyone even discussing a Muslim majority and the imposition of Sharia law in the US? That's not realistic under any scenario. Muslims comprise just over 1% of the US population, and are projected to grow to 2.1% by 2050. Let's stick to debating what is realistic rather than a fantasy scenario, unlikely to come about in the foreseeable future.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... opulation/

:checkmark:

Tugg
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:28 pm

seb146 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Christianity is not a peaceful religion, either. People use Christianity to beat and kill others all the time. Look at violence and hatred toward LGBTQ+ and the Latino community.

You were actually so close, so let me help you:

It is not religion itself but how people use it to manipulate others.


The Latin Americans tend to be Catholics, so I don't see what you mean there.

And to people arguing about the "all muslims are violent," pvijn may have opinions different from yours, but have you read what he's written? Not once did he say that all muslims were violent. His position is that there are violent sects of Islam. All you're doing is overreacting to his statements and making this discussion an annoying thing to read. I'm from Northern Ireland and I know Christians can be violent, don't try to cast me as a bigot. Anyway, most people acknowledge that violent individuals exist in every single group. This shouldn't be a case of "Christians are evil" vs. "Muslims are evil." Try to suppress your passions.
From Co. Down living in PNA.
 
Freakysh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:41 pm

Tugger wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Why is anyone even discussing a Muslim majority and the imposition of Sharia law in the US? That's not realistic under any scenario. Muslims comprise just over 1% of the US population, and are projected to grow to 2.1% by 2050. Let's stick to debating what is realistic rather than a fantasy scenario, unlikely to come about in the foreseeable future.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... opulation/

:checkmark:

Tugg


It was in relation to tugg claiming that we needn't worry about demands for sharia law in western countries. Maybe not now, but with the attitudes on here I get the feeling that a Muslim influx would be welcomed with open arms if the situation arised. Lots of apologists here.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:52 pm

Freakysh wrote:
It was in relation to tugg claiming that we needn't worry about demands for sharia law in western countries. Maybe not now, but with the attitudes on here I get the feeling that a Muslim influx would be welcomed with open arms if the situation arised. Lots of apologists here.

1. Precisely what are the attitudes that you see "on here"?

2. A welcoming of influx if WHAT situation(s) arose?

3. Apologists for or of what, precisely?

I look forward to your responses.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
Freakysh
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:38 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
It was in relation to tugg claiming that we needn't worry about demands for sharia law in western countries. Maybe not now, but with the attitudes on here I get the feeling that a Muslim influx would be welcomed with open arms if the situation arised. Lots of apologists here.

1. Precisely what are the attitudes that you see "on here"?

2. A welcoming of influx if WHAT situation(s) arose?

3. Apologists for or of what, precisely?

I look forward to your responses.


Thanks for your questions bob.

1 and 3. Claiming that Christians are somehow comparable to the currently perpetuated Islamic terrorism. That's an absolute joke.

2. Let's say Hillary became president and announced the US would take a massive influx of middle eastern Muslim refugees. My feeling is this would be welcomed and applauded by some on here.

You have a very pleasant forum manner bob.
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 2369
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:57 pm

Freakysh wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
It was in relation to tugg claiming that we needn't worry about demands for sharia law in western countries. Maybe not now, but with the attitudes on here I get the feeling that a Muslim influx would be welcomed with open arms if the situation arised. Lots of apologists here.

1. Precisely what are the attitudes that you see "on here"?

2. A welcoming of influx if WHAT situation(s) arose?

3. Apologists for or of what, precisely?

I look forward to your responses.


Thanks for your questions bob.

1 and 3. Claiming that Christians are somehow comparable to the currently perpetuated Islamic terrorism. That's an absolute joke.

2. Let's say Hillary became president and announced the US would take a massive influx of middle eastern Muslim refugees. My feeling is this would be welcomed and applauded by some on here.

You have a very pleasant forum manner bob.

Thanks for the responses. You didn't really address your previous statement "......we needn't worry about demands for sharia law in western countries. Maybe not now,....."

I suspect that the situation would be very similar in all western countries where refugees who have been welcomed (or normal immigrants) are required to adapt to the laws of their new country. No western country is going to switch their jurisprudence to religious law, no matter what religion we are talking about.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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par13del
Posts: 7025
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Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:02 am

BobPatterson wrote:
I suspect that the situation would be very similar in all western countries where refugees who have been welcomed (or normal immigrants) are required to adapt to the laws of their new country. No western country is going to switch their jurisprudence to religious law, no matter what religion we are talking about.

You might want to check on that thought process, in the UK for example, they are recognizing Sharia for some things, schools are being segregated, mostly countries are accommodating versus migrants adapting.
Let's see how Europe society develops in the next 10 years or so, I suspect the creation of communities for migrants without integrating them into the work force and society will not work as was done previously.
 
seb146
Posts: 15123
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:20 am

hispanola wrote:
seb146 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:


The Latin Americans tend to be Catholics, so I don't see what you mean there.

And to people arguing about the "all muslims are violent," pvijn may have opinions different from yours, but have you read what he's written? Not once did he say that all muslims were violent. His position is that there are violent sects of Islam. All you're doing is overreacting to his statements and making this discussion an annoying thing to read. I'm from Northern Ireland and I know Christians can be violent, don't try to cast me as a bigot. Anyway, most people acknowledge that violent individuals exist in every single group. This shouldn't be a case of "Christians are evil" vs. "Muslims are evil." Try to suppress your passions.


In the United States, the right has been branding Latinos as illegals. Those Spanish speaking people taking jobs away from Americans. That was one point.

On a completely different point: "Christians" who say they are for life and people living peacefully will beat up any LGBTQ+ person or set a mosque on fire or put bacon on chicken because Muslims and demand death and killing on sight.

And, yes, there are violent sects. In Christianity. In Islam. In Sikh. In Judaism. But we, as a society, need to either stop equating ALL Islam with violence or start equating ALL religion with violence.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Freakysh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:39 am

seb146 wrote:
hispanola wrote:
seb146 wrote:


The Latin Americans tend to be Catholics, so I don't see what you mean there.

And to people arguing about the "all muslims are violent," pvijn may have opinions different from yours, but have you read what he's written? Not once did he say that all muslims were violent. His position is that there are violent sects of Islam. All you're doing is overreacting to his statements and making this discussion an annoying thing to read. I'm from Northern Ireland and I know Christians can be violent, don't try to cast me as a bigot. Anyway, most people acknowledge that violent individuals exist in every single group. This shouldn't be a case of "Christians are evil" vs. "Muslims are evil." Try to suppress your passions.


In the United States, the right has been branding Latinos as illegals. Those Spanish speaking people taking jobs away from Americans. That was one point.

On a completely different point: "Christians" who say they are for life and people living peacefully will beat up any LGBTQ+ person or set a mosque on fire or put bacon on chicken because Muslims and demand death and killing on sight.

And, yes, there are violent sects. In Christianity. In Islam. In Sikh. In Judaism. But we, as a society, need to either stop equating ALL Islam with violence or start equating ALL religion with violence.


So which current violent Christian sects recruit and get followers from overseas? Can we have a list of the top three Christian groups and deaths attributable to them in the last 12 months?

Geez if my choice was bacon on chicken or having my head hacked off I know what I'd pick.
 
TheF15Ace
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:25 am

Freakysh wrote:
Your Muslim friends would turn against you if push came to shove and sharia law was implemented in the US, don't be naive.



What a load of shit. Maybe you should leave the trailer park once in a while and see how the world works.
 
seb146
Posts: 15123
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:24 am

Freakysh wrote:
seb146 wrote:
hispanola wrote:

The Latin Americans tend to be Catholics, so I don't see what you mean there.

And to people arguing about the "all muslims are violent," pvijn may have opinions different from yours, but have you read what he's written? Not once did he say that all muslims were violent. His position is that there are violent sects of Islam. All you're doing is overreacting to his statements and making this discussion an annoying thing to read. I'm from Northern Ireland and I know Christians can be violent, don't try to cast me as a bigot. Anyway, most people acknowledge that violent individuals exist in every single group. This shouldn't be a case of "Christians are evil" vs. "Muslims are evil." Try to suppress your passions.


In the United States, the right has been branding Latinos as illegals. Those Spanish speaking people taking jobs away from Americans. That was one point.

On a completely different point: "Christians" who say they are for life and people living peacefully will beat up any LGBTQ+ person or set a mosque on fire or put bacon on chicken because Muslims and demand death and killing on sight.

And, yes, there are violent sects. In Christianity. In Islam. In Sikh. In Judaism. But we, as a society, need to either stop equating ALL Islam with violence or start equating ALL religion with violence.


So which current violent Christian sects recruit and get followers from overseas? Can we have a list of the top three Christian groups and deaths attributable to them in the last 12 months?

Geez if my choice was bacon on chicken or having my head hacked off I know what I'd pick.


They don't need to go overseas. There are plenty of people here in the United States willing to enter paradise in the name of the white skinned, English speaking, blond hair, blue eye God.

Note to self: do not feed the trolls....
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Freakysh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:54 am

seb146 wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
seb146 wrote:

In the United States, the right has been branding Latinos as illegals. Those Spanish speaking people taking jobs away from Americans. That was one point.

On a completely different point: "Christians" who say they are for life and people living peacefully will beat up any LGBTQ+ person or set a mosque on fire or put bacon on chicken because Muslims and demand death and killing on sight.

And, yes, there are violent sects. In Christianity. In Islam. In Sikh. In Judaism. But we, as a society, need to either stop equating ALL Islam with violence or start equating ALL religion with violence.


So which current violent Christian sects recruit and get followers from overseas? Can we have a list of the top three Christian groups and deaths attributable to them in the last 12 months?

Geez if my choice was bacon on chicken or having my head hacked off I know what I'd pick.


They don't need to go overseas. There are plenty of people here in the United States willing to enter paradise in the name of the white skinned, English speaking, blond hair, blue eye God.

Note to self: do not feed the trolls....


I'm not familiar with the white extremist Christian groups in the US. Would you mind listing the ones that are currently the most extreme and concerning and how many they've killed this year.

I'll then do some reading up on them and educate myself
 
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Tugger
Posts: 6662
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:02 am

Freakysh wrote:
I'm not familiar with the white extremist Christian groups in the US. Would you mind listing the ones that are currently the most extreme and concerning and how many they've killed this year.

I'll then do some reading up on them and educate myself

I'm not familiar with the Muslim extremist groups in the US. Would you mind listing the ones that are currently the most extreme and concerning and how many they've killed this year?

I'll then do some reading up on them and educate myself

Thanks,
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Freakysh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:08 am

Tugger wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
I'm not familiar with the white extremist Christian groups in the US. Would you mind listing the ones that are currently the most extreme and concerning and how many they've killed this year.

I'll then do some reading up on them and educate myself

I'm not familiar with the Muslim extremist groups in the US. Would you mind listing the ones that are currently the most extreme and concerning and how many they've killed this year?

I'll then do some reading up on them and educate myself

Thanks,
Tugg


I never said there were

You obviously can't list any of the claims you've made, probably because they are bogus

Bob, great example here of questioning information you've been given on the internets. Good lesson for the school kids out there.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 6662
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:23 am

Freakysh wrote:
You obviously can't list any of the claims you've made, probably because they are bogus

What claims?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Freakysh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:32 am

Tugger wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
You obviously can't list any of the claims you've made, probably because they are bogus

What claims?

Tugg


My mistake, it was sebs claims.

You jumped in on a question that had nothing to do with you and questioned me on a claim I never made.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 6662
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:37 am

Freakysh wrote:
My mistake, it was sebs claims.

You jumped in on a question that had nothing to do with you and questioned me on a claim I never made.

I simply restated something and reframed it back toward you. One key point you have been making is that the USA is risk to become Muslim and also that "my Muslim friends" will turn on me and attack the values enshrined in the US Constitution. So I simply am asking you: where are you seeing theses dangerous Muslim extremist groups in the USA that lead you to make this claim?

Also I will note:
Freakysh wrote:
The trouble with your statement is what happens to America if Islam becomes 51% of the population and islamists grab control of the government. You reckon demanding sharia law won't be a problem then? Laws can be changed.

Freakysh wrote:
but with the attitudes on here I get the feeling that a Muslim influx would be welcomed with open arms if the situation arised. Lots of apologists here.

Freakysh wrote:
My feeling is this would be welcomed and applauded by some on here.

Your claims are showing to be bogus. interesting how you moved from insinuating that "51%" was possible (likely even?), to "feeling" and "lots", to even more "feeling" and now down to "some".

Interesting critical analysis but I think your sample population is poor to validate your claim.

I'm out. Have a good night.
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Freakysh
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:42 am

Tugger wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
My mistake, it was sebs claims.

You jumped in on a question that had nothing to do with you and questioned me on a claim I never made.

I simply restated something and reframed it back toward you. One key point you have been making is that the USA is risk to become Muslim and also that "my Muslim friends" will turn on me and attack the values enshrined in the US Constitution. So I simply am asking you: where are you seeing theses dangerous Muslim extremist groups in the USA that lead you to make this claim?

Also I will note:
Freakysh wrote:
The trouble with your statement is what happens to America if Islam becomes 51% of the population and islamists grab control of the government. You reckon demanding sharia law won't be a problem then? Laws can be changed.

Freakysh wrote:
but with the attitudes on here I get the feeling that a Muslim influx would be welcomed with open arms if the situation arised. Lots of apologists here.

Freakysh wrote:
My feeling is this would be welcomed and applauded by some on here.

Your claims are showing to be bogus. interesting how you moved from insinuating that "51%" was possible (likely even?), to "feeling" and "lots", to even more "feeling" and now down to "some".

Interesting critical analysis but I think your sample population is poor to validate your claim.

I'm out. Have a good night.
Tugg


So many fake claims here, not surprising though.

I'm done too, have a great night.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 14490
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:01 am

par13del wrote:
in the UK for example, they are recognizing Sharia for some things


Such as? :redflag:

Please don't quote The Daily Mail.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Norway to crack down on Islamic bus seats

Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:07 am

scbriml wrote:
par13del wrote:
in the UK for example, they are recognizing Sharia for some things


Such as? :redflag:

Please don't quote The Daily Mail.


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