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falstaff
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Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:21 pm

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2017/08/02/ ... -protests/

Apparently protestors persuaded a butcher shop to put up a sign regarding animal rights. The store did it so they would stop protesting and end calls to shut down the business. This group also wants to make Berkeley meat free.

I consider it a shake down because they would continue to cause a scene at a legal business and call for its closure unless they met their demands. Some people may consider this kind of protest the same as those protesting for civil rights and equality of minority groups, but I think it is completely different. People of all kinds eat meat and that activity happens all over the world. For the vast majority of people eating animal products is not controversial. People have been eating animals since before recorded history and a butcher shop is found in found in every corner of the world.

I consider it a huge waste of time because they aren't likely to change the behavior of most people. Don't these people have something else to do besides protest something very few people find objectionable? Don't they have to go to work or school? In the grand scale of things I would think it is difficult to get people on board with this when there are so many other pressing issues regarding people in the world.

Their goal of making Berkeley meat free is really rather militaristic. If they actually accomplished that goal where would they stop? There seems to more and more people who want to tell others what to do and what to think. This behavior appears to be growing on both sided of the political spectrum. However the food issue is unique because both right and left leaning people enjoy meat.
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ChrisKen
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:39 pm

If it wasn't for the naff article 99.9% of people wouldn't know it (the stupid sign) was there. Very few look up.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:50 pm

There are 20 Safeway Supermarkets and about 1,000 grocery stores of all kinds in the Berkeley area (perhaps not all sell fresh meats, but I'd bet that almost all sell canned and frozen meats)..

Why did they prey on this small shop first?
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jetero
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:22 pm

Waste of time? Yes. Just like your post.

Don't you have to go to work or school? Don't you have "something better to do" than to get self-righteously offended by something so idiotic? Do you live in Berkeley? Is that your butcher shop?
 
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pvjin
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:09 pm

jetero wrote:
Waste of time? Yes. Just like your post.

Don't you have to go to work or school? Don't you have "something better to do" than to get self-righteously offended by something so idiotic? Do you live in Berkeley? Is that your butcher shop?


Don't you have something better to do than replying to a thread you consider "waste of time"? Don't you have to go to work or school? Why didn't you just ignore this thread? Shame on you.

As for the original topic, I think local government officials should act and stop those smelly hippies from harassing a legitimate business. Somebody should also tell them that consumerism is much more harmful to all living things on the planet than people eating meat. Instead of telling people not to eat meat they should tell them not to buy new cars, iPhones, clothes and that kind of stuff
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:39 pm

Sounds like the dog gays of August are getting to people, tempers rising with the temperature.

Stop and think. This is Berkeley. It's what people DO there. :-)
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910A
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Quote from a spokesperson for the protest organization:

"Our initial ask was an end to the violence, to sell veggie burgers or something like that," said Johnson, who emphasized that "this is not an agreement we intend to comply with forever" but rather "a temporary understanding." Johnson also called the negotiation "something of a historic first" for animal rights.


http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/B ... o-12988045
 
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falstaff
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:25 am

jetero wrote:
Do you live in Berkeley? Is that your butcher shop?


No, but it could eventually happen in my neighborhood. If one group gets away with that kind of behavior then the agitators move somewhere else.

pvjin wrote:
Somebody should also tell them that consumerism is much more harmful to all living things on the planet than people eating meat. Instead of telling people not to eat meat they should tell them not to buy new cars


That wouldn't be good for automobile industry... Which one of ten jobs in the US is related to. Of course if people were out of work they may not be able to afford meat.

BobPatterson wrote:
Stop and think. This is Berkeley. It's what people DO there

That is true, but Berkeley is not a cheap place to live. Where do all the protestors come from during business hours? Are a lot of these people outsiders? Or are they students who engage in that stuff because they have the time. I remember during the "Occupy" craze. There was a group for Occupy Detroit, near my church. Most of the protestors were homeless to begin with or were Wayne State University students who would come on their off hours during the day and go home at night.

910A wrote:
Quote from a spokesperson for the protest organization:

Wow! He doesn't even know what the business should sell. "They should sell veggie burgers or something like that". What does exactly is "something like that"? If he thinks selling Veggie burgers is a great business model he should go into business selling them, not force another business into.

BobPatterson wrote:
Why did they prey on this small shop first?

It was probably easier to bully a small business than it was to go after Safeway or another large grocery chain.
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seb146
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:48 am

pvjin wrote:
As for the original topic, I think local government officials should act and stop those smelly hippies from harassing a legitimate business. Somebody should also tell them that consumerism is much more harmful to all living things on the planet than people eating meat. Instead of telling people not to eat meat they should tell them not to buy new cars, iPhones, clothes and that kind of stuff.


Berekley is known for its protesting and being offended. I see this as people being late to the party. There are already great alternatives to meat sold on both the local and national level. Maybe the butcher should direct them to the nearest Trader Joe's or Whole Foods...
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Mir
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:07 am

Well we recently learned that plants can tell when they're being eaten, and they don't like it. So perhaps we should be protesting these protestors.

I get that they're into animal rights, which is a cause that I generally support. But going after a butcher shop that tries to source their meat ethically is perhaps the stupidest protest I've ever heard of. That shop should be way, way, WAY down their priority list.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:10 am

I see these people with the same eyes as the socialists/independence advocates from back home: a group that likes to mess around during college years and later abandons their mission.

The Butcher Shop is still in business and protesters got nothing except for a sign that means nothing to either party.

The stupidity...it burns. They don't realize that they fall in the same spectrum as people who want to ban same sex marriage (because it doesn't suit their lifestyle). Don't want meat? Don't eat it. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to my 8oz juicy steak, drenched in garlic.
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Cadet985
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:27 am

Why can't we just start killing these militant vegans for trying to force their views on everybody?

Marc
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:34 am

Marc, are you really 31 years of age?
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Cadet985
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:29 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Marc, are you really 31 years of age?


That's what my birth certificate says, but I feel a lot older than that.
 
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:53 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
...... I'm entitled to my 8oz juicy steak, drenched in garlic.

I knew it. You're one of those half-vegans.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:15 am

BobPatterson wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
...... I'm entitled to my 8oz juicy steak, drenched in garlic.

I knew it. You're one of those half-vegans.


Flexitarian is the en vogue term ....

best regards
Thomas
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B777LRF
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:45 am

Scene from a restaurant

Patron: Hi, we're vegans, lactose intolerant and gluten-free. What do you suggest we order?
Waiter: A taxi
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:53 am

Cadet985 wrote:
Why can't we just start killing these militant vegans for trying to force their views on everybody?

Marc


I'm sure they'd make delicious burgers . . . :D

I've just been reading about Berkeley, and it's platform-denying activists who shut down debate before it's even started. Seems like it's a law onto itself.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:14 am

Meanwhile in Australia......

Image

A Melbourne cafe that caused a social media storm after charging men a tax and seating women first insists it has had a stack of support.

Handsome Her, a vegan cafe in Brunswick, said it was charging men 18 per cent more in a bid to address the gender pay gap. The cafe, which clearly advertises its rules on a chalk board, explained men will be charged the premium - and the gap donated to women's services. However co-owner Alex O'Brien told Seven News the surcharge, which is in place one week out of every month, wasn't compulsory.

She also said none had so far refused to pay it and in a Facebook post overnight said the idea has been well supported overall.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11899675
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:10 am

Cadet985 wrote:
Why can't we just start killing these militant vegans for trying to force their views on everybody?

But liberals are the violent ones, right?

You know, I totally agree with you. Let's start killing people who force down their views on us. We can come up with a hit list of people (most notably, conservatives) that still want to ban same sex marriage and deny us benefits because of a book. These militant conservative Christians won't be standing for long...
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falstaff
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:28 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Scene from a restaurant

Patron: Hi, we're vegans, lactose intolerant and gluten-free. What do you suggest we order?
Waiter: A taxi


I was in a fried chicken restaurant, in St. Louis, a few years ago. A group of young people came in and sat at the table behind me. When they ordered one of the women asked if they had vegan options. The waitress gave her a dirty look and said "French fries". The woman asked if the fries were fried in the same oil as the chicken and the waitress said that they were. She ended up sitting there eating nothing while her friends gobbled up fried chicken.

zkojq wrote:
Meanwhile in Australia......

Is that even legal? It wouldn't be in the US. I guess those people don't know that some women earn a lot of money. I have several friends who wives earn more than they do.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:50 pm

falstaff wrote:
I guess those people don't know that some women earn a lot of money. I have several friends who wives earn more than they do.

False equivalence.

By that logic, the fact that don't have any friends going hungry means these world hunger charities are meaningless.

Not justifying the restaurant's actions (though as a consumer, I'm free to NOT dine there), but it seems your friends' wives are the exception rather than the norm.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Flighty
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:15 pm

If these people are so anti-human nature, they should chain themselves to the bottom of the ocean.

There is also a moral framework to force feed meat to these people. If they can control the diet of butcher customers, then the general public has an equal right to control what they eat, by force if necessary, as well. Their minds may become expanded when they are exposed to high quantities of meat. Perhaps they are just ignorant and in need of community organizing by meat related educators. Then their life could be more meaningful, and they would be more broad minded?
 
N867DA
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:15 pm

Dog burgers and kitten sandwiches for everyone! Ethically raised of course.
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jetero
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:56 am

pvjin wrote:
jetero wrote:
Waste of time? Yes. Just like your post.

Don't you have to go to work or school? Don't you have "something better to do" than to get self-righteously offended by something so idiotic? Do you live in Berkeley? Is that your butcher shop?


Don't you have something better to do than replying to a thread you consider "waste of time"? Don't you have to go to work or school? Why didn't you just ignore this thread? Shame on you.

As for the original topic, I think local government officials should act and stop those smelly hippies from harassing a legitimate business. Somebody should also tell them that consumerism is much more harmful to all living things on the planet than people eating meat. Instead of telling people not to eat meat they should tell them not to buy new cars, iPhones, clothes and that kind of stuff


Why do you think the people who are protesting are smellly?
 
jetero
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:18 am

falstaff wrote:
jetero wrote:
Do you live in Berkeley? Is that your butcher shop?


No, but it could eventually happen in my neighborhood. If one group gets away with that kind of behavior then the agitators move somewhere else.

pvjin wrote:
Somebody should also tell them that consumerism is much more harmful to all living things on the planet than people eating meat. Instead of telling people not to eat meat they should tell them not to buy new cars


That wouldn't be good for automobile industry... Which one of ten jobs in the US is related to. Of course if people were out of work they may not be able to afford meat.

BobPatterson wrote:
Stop and think. This is Berkeley. It's what people DO there

That is true, but Berkeley is not a cheap place to live. Where do all the protestors come from during business hours? Are a lot of these people outsiders? Or are they students who engage in that stuff because they have the time. I remember during the "Occupy" craze. There was a group for Occupy Detroit, near my church. Most of the protestors were homeless to begin with or were Wayne State University students who would come on their off hours during the day and go home at night.

910A wrote:
Quote from a spokesperson for the protest organization:

Wow! He doesn't even know what the business should sell. "They should sell veggie burgers or something like that". What does exactly is "something like that"? If he thinks selling Veggie burgers is a great business model he should go into business selling them, not force another business into.

BobPatterson wrote:
Why did they prey on this small shop first?

It was probably easier to bully a small business than it was to go after Safeway or another large grocery chain.


Falstaff, you've got a great screen name. I think your neighborhood will be OK. And I think you have better things to do than worrying about Berkeley.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:15 am

N867DA wrote:
Dog burgers and kitten sandwiches for everyone! Ethically raised of course.


Funny thing, if you do open a Burger Store serving burgers made from Cats and Dogs, you can be certain that you will have a lot of, likely also some violent among them, protesters camping out in front of it. Some of them after having a McGriddle for breakfast without seeing the hypocrisy.

best regards
Thomas
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WIederling
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:45 am

BobPatterson wrote:
There are 20 Safeway Supermarkets and about 1,000 grocery stores of all kinds in the Berkeley area (perhaps not all sell fresh meats, but I'd bet that almost all sell canned and frozen meats)..

Why did they prey on this small shop first?


Strange that you seem to not understand how bullying works.

You only ever try to beat up those that are (much) weaker than you are.
Never tackle anything well matched or stronger.
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Super80Fan
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:40 pm

Weak cowards targeting someone they know doesn't really have the means to fight back.
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OA412
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:23 pm

Meh I don't see why anyone should worry about this. Vegans represent a tiny fraction of the population, the militant variety are even more rare. Butcher shops aren't about to start shutting down across the country.
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BobPatterson
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:32 pm

Recent news stories report that in the USA, 25%-30% of the environmental impact of meat is due to household pets.

Think of the targets available to the Berkeley hippies and PETA.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americ ... 2017-08-03
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N867DA
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:00 am

tommy1808 wrote:
N867DA wrote:
Dog burgers and kitten sandwiches for everyone! Ethically raised of course.


Funny thing, if you do open a Burger Store serving burgers made from Cats and Dogs, you can be certain that you will have a lot of, likely also some violent among them, protesters camping out in front of it. Some of them after having a McGriddle for breakfast without seeing the hypocrisy.

best regards
Thomas


Yep. People can eat whatever they want, within the limits of society...even when it comes to animals. Open a dog farm that treats the animals a billion times better than a cow and it'd still get shut down. Because the "don't control what people can eat!" folks are also the "eugh, animal cruelty should be banned!" people. I dislike militant veganism as much as the next guy but it seems they're just trying to change society/culture just like people who want to ban abortion or promote unisex bathrooms.
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tommy1808
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:09 am

N867DA wrote:
I dislike militant veganism as much as the next guy but it seems they're just trying to change society/culture just like people who want to ban abortion or promote unisex bathrooms.


I´d say there goal are fine, but forcing people to eat less or no meat is exactly the same as forcing people to adopt a religion. It is wrong. Scientifically they do have a point though, there is not that much reason to ban the killing of humans, but kill animals because they are quite yummy. That is the natural order of things, but so is killing a rival of your own species, even though evolution has taken care that that is rare among higher animals, it still is natural. I guess in that sense they are like the pro-life crowd.

Of course if one argues down the line of what is natural, eating meet as we are hunters and gatherers for example, unisex bathrooms (Doh!) and abortions are also quite natural (Bruce effect).

best regards
Thomas
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Airstud
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:48 am

Mmmmmmmmmmmm... garlic.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
WIederling
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Re: Militant Vegans shake down a butcher in Berkeley. Waste of time?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:15 pm

Airstud wrote:
Mmmmmmmmmmmm... garlic.


silver bullets, ashen stakes , .... :-)
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