Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
jetero wrote:In the conversation with Australia, he called himself the "world's greatest person."
Tugger wrote:jetero wrote:In the conversation with Australia, he called himself the "world's greatest person."
Apologies but I must nitpick this, it's taken out of context unfairly. When you read the full sentence it is clear that although clumsily stated ("I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country") he is saying that he is "the greatest advocate of not letting people in the country" (and he probably means "bad" people... ).
Tugg
mbmbos wrote:The most shocking thing about the transcripts is incapacity to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with other world leaders.
mbmbos wrote:Dementia. Time for the 25th Amendment.
The most shocking thing about the transcripts is incapacity to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with other world leaders.
seb146 wrote:So are we all just going to gloss over the fact that he basically told the Mexican president to "do what I say or else"? I mean, we do need a translator for what Trump says, which is bad enough, but threatening another world leader for looking out for their country?
Tugger wrote:jetero wrote:In the conversation with Australia, he called himself the "world's greatest person."
Apologies but I must nitpick this, it's taken out of context unfairly. When you read the full sentence it is clear that although clumsily stated ("I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country") he is saying that he is "the greatest advocate of not letting people in the country" (and he probably means "bad" people... ).
BobPatterson wrote:Tugger wrote:jetero wrote:In the conversation with Australia, he called himself the "world's greatest person."
Apologies but I must nitpick this, it's taken out of context unfairly. When you read the full sentence it is clear that although clumsily stated ("I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country") he is saying that he is "the greatest advocate of not letting people in the country" (and he probably means "bad" people... ).
Thanks for speaking our for at least a bit of reason. In our dislike of the man we (and the purveyors of "news") are prone to twisting every quirk of speech in order to present a story in the most negative way possible.
I knew the Washington Post was doing it, and not just in opinion pieces. But I didn't know, until just recently, how bad the situation was generally among online "news" sources and blogs. Straight reporting of Trump-related political news is difficult to find. Mr. Trump's complaints about "fake news" are not totally unwarranted.
Once a feeding frenzy starts it is difficult to stop until the food runs out.
jetero wrote:Well in fairness I read the transcript and didn't come to the same conclusion as Tugger (but will acknowledge there's a good chance he's right). But, at the end of the day, who knows with this guy? Is there a way to read those transcripts objectively and not be appalled (between laughs, mind you)? But sure if you don't want to highlight the "world's greatest person," that's fine. It sure doesn't make a dent in my opinion as to whether he's suited to lead the country.
BobPatterson wrote:Tugger wrote:jetero wrote:In the conversation with Australia, he called himself the "world's greatest person."
Apologies but I must nitpick this, it's taken out of context unfairly. When you read the full sentence it is clear that although clumsily stated ("I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country") he is saying that he is "the greatest advocate of not letting people in the country" (and he probably means "bad" people... ).
Thanks for speaking our for at least a bit of reason. In our dislike of the man we (and the purveyors of "news") are prone to twisting every quirk of speech in order to present a story in the most negative way possible.
Tugger wrote:OMG... I just thought about what the conversations with Putin must have been like. Can you imagine how impressed Putin must have been?
BobPatterson wrote:What I would like to know (haven't seen mention of it) is whether the document/transcript received by the Washington Post bore any notation about the contents being classified.
rfields5421 wrote:Trump is in the same position as Nixon was, trying to control the people he hired who can no longer stand to do his dirty work.
rfields5421 wrote:The release serves no purpose except to embarrass Trump.
BobPatterson wrote:Tugger wrote:jetero wrote:In the conversation with Australia, he called himself the "world's greatest person."
Apologies but I must nitpick this, it's taken out of context unfairly. When you read the full sentence it is clear that although clumsily stated ("I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country") he is saying that he is "the greatest advocate of not letting people in the country" (and he probably means "bad" people... ).
Thanks for speaking our for at least a bit of reason. In our dislike of the man we (and the purveyors of "news") are prone to twisting every quirk of speech in order to present a story in the most negative way possible.
I knew the Washington Post was doing it, and not just in opinion pieces. But I didn't know, until just recently, how bad the situation was generally among online "news" sources and blogs. Straight reporting of Trump-related political news is difficult to find. Mr. Trump's complaints about "fake news" are not totally unwarranted.
Once a feeding frenzy starts it is difficult to stop until the food runs out.
cpd wrote:BobPatterson wrote:Tugger wrote:Apologies but I must nitpick this, it's taken out of context unfairly. When you read the full sentence it is clear that although clumsily stated ("I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country") he is saying that he is "the greatest advocate of not letting people in the country" (and he probably means "bad" people... ).
Thanks for speaking our for at least a bit of reason. In our dislike of the man we (and the purveyors of "news") are prone to twisting every quirk of speech in order to present a story in the most negative way possible.
I knew the Washington Post was doing it, and not just in opinion pieces. But I didn't know, until just recently, how bad the situation was generally among online "news" sources and blogs. Straight reporting of Trump-related political news is difficult to find. Mr. Trump's complaints about "fake news" are not totally unwarranted.
Once a feeding frenzy starts it is difficult to stop until the food runs out.
Are these transcripts fake then?
The conversation with Turnbull doesn't seem fake, it has his conversation and language style.Who in the Trump administration is leaking these? And what is being done about it.
cpd wrote:Are these transcripts fake then?
The conversation with Turnbull doesn't seem fake, it has his conversation and language style.Who in the Trump administration is leaking these? And what is being done about it.
BobPatterson wrote:cpd wrote:Are these transcripts fake then?
The conversation with Turnbull doesn't seem fake, it has his conversation and language style.Who in the Trump administration is leaking these? And what is being done about it.
No. I think the transcript is being quoted correctly. It is the spin put on the news story that leans toward fakery.
Mr. Trump no more means literally that "This will kill me" any more than he means literally that he really is "the world’s greatest person".
He is quoted as having said "I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country". By that he means "No one feels more strongly about that than I do".
Mr. Trump is guilty of using extremely clumsy language. Many in the media are guilty of failure to report on the story with fidelity to the truth.
And, yes, it is perhaps not unreasonable to think that Mr. Trump believes that there is no one in the world greater than him.
Different story.
cpd wrote:BobPatterson wrote:cpd wrote:Are these transcripts fake then?
The conversation with Turnbull doesn't seem fake, it has his conversation and language style.Who in the Trump administration is leaking these? And what is being done about it.
No. I think the transcript is being quoted correctly. It is the spin put on the news story that leans toward fakery.
Mr. Trump no more means literally that "This will kill me" any more than he means literally that he really is "the world’s greatest person".
He is quoted as having said "I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country". By that he means "No one feels more strongly about that than I do".
Mr. Trump is guilty of using extremely clumsy language. Many in the media are guilty of failure to report on the story with fidelity to the truth.
And, yes, it is perhaps not unreasonable to think that Mr. Trump believes that there is no one in the world greater than him.
Different story.
You can't really spin those transcripts, they are there for all to read. And it confirms very clearly the tense mood between the new USA President and our PM. It's very hard to spin that in any direction. And it does confirm that the staff of both leaders at the time of the rumours were indeed trying to do their own spinning (trying to put a positive gloss on this). These transcripts paint it in a different light.
So I wonder, if it's not okay for the media to spin things, then why should the minions of Politicians also be excused for spin?
BobPatterson wrote:cpd wrote:BobPatterson wrote:No. I think the transcript is being quoted correctly. It is the spin put on the news story that leans toward fakery.
Mr. Trump no more means literally that "This will kill me" any more than he means literally that he really is "the world’s greatest person".
He is quoted as having said "I am the world’s greatest person that does not want to let people into the country". By that he means "No one feels more strongly about that than I do".
Mr. Trump is guilty of using extremely clumsy language. Many in the media are guilty of failure to report on the story with fidelity to the truth.
And, yes, it is perhaps not unreasonable to think that Mr. Trump believes that there is no one in the world greater than him.
Different story.
You can't really spin those transcripts, they are there for all to read. And it confirms very clearly the tense mood between the new USA President and our PM. It's very hard to spin that in any direction. And it does confirm that the staff of both leaders at the time of the rumours were indeed trying to do their own spinning (trying to put a positive gloss on this). These transcripts paint it in a different light.
So I wonder, if it's not okay for the media to spin things, then why should the minions of Politicians also be excused for spin?
They should not be. I advocate no spin, just reporting of facts.
I'm not naive enough to think that the spin doctors will ever be put out of work.
But the media can and should report when politicos spin or twist the facts. They should not themselves do so.
jetero wrote:What's been twisted? The "world's greatest person" comment? Tugger presented 1 interpretation, which I understand, but to conclusively and unilaterally decide that's what the guy meant and accuse others of "twisting the facts" has the potential of being as guilty as the party you're criticizing. As you said, it's certainly within character for him to think it, not to mention have a brain fart and go in another direction. There are plenty of historical examples.
BobPatterson wrote:rfields5421 wrote:Trump is in the same position as Nixon was, trying to control the people he hired who can no longer stand to do his dirty work.
Then they should resign with honor rather than to betray with dishonor.
Tugger wrote:OMG... I just thought about what the conversations with Putin must have been like. Can you imagine how impressed Putin must have been?
BobPatterson wrote:What I would like to know (haven't seen mention of it) is whether the document/transcript received by the Washington Post bore any notation about the contents being classified.
scbriml wrote:mbmbos wrote:The most shocking thing about the transcripts is incapacity to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with other world leaders.
Never mind a conversation, Trump can't string a single intellectually cogent sentence together!
cpd wrote:The transcripts also show that Turnbull is nasty. Completely nasty. Will tread on or walk over anyone to get what he wants.
Take his comment about knowing everything about the asylum seekers still locked up. Even Trump was shocked at that point.
mbmbos wrote:Why is that shocking? I don't expect Trump to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with anyone.Dementia. Time for the 25th Amendment.
The most shocking thing about the transcripts is incapacity to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with other world leaders.
cledaybuck wrote:Why is that shocking? I don't expect Trump to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with anyone.
einsteinboricua wrote:Several commentators are suggesting the White House allowed the leaks to happened. WaPo obtained the transcripts, went to the WH and received no pushback from the administration.
Makes you wonder if the transcripts are genuine at all.
Maddow already warned several outlets about publishing things hastily without verifying them.
mbmbos wrote:I don't claim to be wiser or more jaded than others. It's just that we have all watched Trump for long enough now to realize there isn't any more to him than what we see. What you see is what you get. The interviews, press conferences, twitter rants etc. are not some sort of political show. This is who Trump is. I would be shocked if he started acting sophisticated and articulate.cledaybuck wrote:Why is that shocking? I don't expect Trump to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with anyone.
There's nothing more annoying to me than someone who postures they are wiser or more jaded than others. If you're not shocked, then goody for you!
I am fully aware of the President's cognitive failings. But to see them in action, when he's off-camera and articulating not in broad strokes as he would do with a large audience but to a fellow leader...well, that's shocking.
Does that add clarity now?
qf789 wrote:scbriml wrote:mbmbos wrote:The most shocking thing about the transcripts is incapacity to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with other world leaders.
Never mind a conversation, Trump can't string a single intellectually cogent sentence together!
Well Turnbull (Australia's biggest waffler) cant even put 2 words together let alone a sentence with one of those words being 'um' or 'ah'.
rfields5421 wrote:BobPatterson wrote:What I would like to know (haven't seen mention of it) is whether the document/transcript received by the Washington Post bore any notation about the contents being classified.
No idea.
There is a 'kind of classified' category called "For Official Use Only".
If the transcript was classified as 'Confidential' technically the contents could not be disclosed/ discussed with political supporters.
It is normal in the US to have many Confidential documents which have nothing to do with National Security, but are marked as so because they are embarrassing to the government.
It is also normal for many of those documents to be leaked.
Leakers almost always are members of the party in power who either have personal disagreements or policy disagreements with the person whom the documents are about.
Personally I think these probably came from Spicer or Preibus. Maybe even Scaramucci. All would have been ina position to see/ have them.
By now any Obama holdovers are gone from the offices which might have seen the transcripts.
The release serves no purpose except to embarrass Trump. It has no impact on foreign policy. How can anyone say it hurts relationships with Mexico or Australia.
Trump is in the same position as Nixon was, trying to control the people he hired who can no longer stand to do his dirty work.
Dutchy wrote:And that is the reason why he is becoming more and more isolated and thus more irrelevant in the international stage. You can't just threaten another state. Diplomacy isn't the same as getting a project off the ground.
Dano1977 wrote:qf789 wrote:scbriml wrote:
Never mind a conversation, Trump can't string a single intellectually cogent sentence together!
Well Turnbull (Australia's biggest waffler) cant even put 2 words together let alone a sentence with one of those words being 'um' or 'ah'.
Bit like Bob Hawke then?
Dutchy wrote:cpd wrote:The transcripts also show that Turnbull is nasty. Completely nasty. Will tread on or walk over anyone to get what he wants.
Take his comment about knowing everything about the asylum seekers still locked up. Even Trump was shocked at that point.
What do you mean, could you give us a quote from Mr. Turnbull?
scbriml wrote:mbmbos wrote:The most shocking thing about the transcripts is incapacity to hold a intellectually cogent conversation with other world leaders.
Never mind a conversation, Trump can't string a single intellectually cogent sentence together!
qf789 wrote:Dutchy wrote:cpd wrote:The transcripts also show that Turnbull is nasty. Completely nasty. Will tread on or walk over anyone to get what he wants.
Take his comment about knowing everything about the asylum seekers still locked up. Even Trump was shocked at that point.
What do you mean, could you give us a quote from Mr. Turnbull?
Turnbull said a deal is a deal. He also offered to take the 31 Guantanamo prisoners to get Trump to agree with the deal, this is what the 31 in the transcript refers to.
CPD is right, Turnbull will tread on or walk over anyone to get what he wants
Some examples include - he used other MP's to do his dirty work to take down Abbott, those MP's then got the boot last year, Turnbull to this day has stayed silent, didnt thank them for their service or anything. He has also thrown several ministers under the bus, basically he will get them to sell a policy and then if it didnt wash with public he would dump then in a heap. Malcolm Turnbull only cares about Malcolm Turnbull and he always thinks that he is the smartest person in the room. If I were Trump I would not trust Turnbull and I think the transcript shows that
jetero wrote:
Yeah the leaks are definitely the most concerning part of all this.
BobPatterson wrote:rfields5421 wrote:Trump is in the same position as Nixon was, trying to control the people he hired who can no longer stand to do his dirty work.
Then they should resign with honor rather than to betray with dishonor.
LMP737 wrote:BobPatterson wrote:rfields5421 wrote:Trump is in the same position as Nixon was, trying to control the people he hired who can no longer stand to do his dirty work.
Then they should resign with honor rather than to betray with dishonor.
Are you saying the people who "betrayed" Nixon did so dishonorably?
qf789 wrote:
Turnbull is no Bob Hawke