Francoflier wrote:

"Talley, who is currently a deputy assistant attorney general at the Justice Department, has already sparked controversy with his nomination. He has only practiced law for three years. He has never tried a case in court. And he was deemed “not qualified” to be a judge by the American Bar Association, making him Trump’s fourth judicial nominee to earn the rare and abysmal rating by the nation’s top legal organization."

Not that this should surprise anybody anymore. Almost every person Trump has nominated for government position so far is completely unqualified for the job, or downright incompetent. The only required passing grade for Trump is loyalty to him and adherence to far-right 'values'.

I would not be surprised if Trump nominated a turnip in a KKK robe. It would certainly be smarter than many of his other nominees.

BobPatterson wrote:

Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.

Has it been codified in US Code or interpreted under case law? I don't know the answer to that question, but I would suspect either or both to be true.

OA412 wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.

Has it been codified in US Code or interpreted under case law? I don't know the answer to that question, but I would suspect either or both to be true.

It looks to me like this section of the U.S. Code is what you want:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text ... hapter-115

I don't know how to effectively go about searching for case law which I presume would mean trial records and court decisions.

Wikipedia gives a list of persons who have been tried and convicted of treason in the USA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ted_States

Perhaps searching on those names would turn up case details.

OA412 wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.

Has it been codified in US Code or interpreted under case law? I don't know the answer to that question, but I would suspect either or both to be true.

Why discuss the official legal definition of treason? You will never end this debate in the legal sense because ultimately it will be decided in court if it comes to that.
So can't we use the plain definition of treason by the Oxford / Cambridge dictionary?

The English version: "the committing of a crime that seriously threatens the safety of your country"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... gh-treason

Even the American version: "the crime of making war against the government of your country, or attempting to help an enemy take control of your country" can be eligible in this situation, whom is actually in control of the White House?

But since this an international forum, I suggest we use the English version.

Dutchy wrote:

OA412 wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.

Has it been codified in US Code or interpreted under case law? I don't know the answer to that question, but I would suspect either or both to be true.

Why discuss the official legal definition of treason? You will never end this debate in the legal sense because ultimately it will be decided in court if it comes to that.
So can't we use the plain definition of treason by the Oxford / Cambridge dictionary?

You can use whatever definition you wish.

The question here is whether Donald Trump or his campaign associates or White House operatives have committed and are properly accused of treason.

The answer can be provided only by the definition or definitions applicable under United States law (and the evidence).

Popular usages have nothing to do with the matter. It is entirely possible to hang Mr. Trump for treason in the public square without him being guilty of the crime.

I think he is guilty of a lot of things, some of them possibly being criminal under our laws. I have not yet seen evidence of treason. Maybe Mr. Mueller has.

Another big win for trump. A special counselor for the Clinton crimes is probably coming: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... al-counsel

Put them behind bars!!

And the state visits were another huge victory, the people love and respect Trump and accept him as the leader of the world. It was a glorious success. ....... for China.

seahawk wrote:

It was a glorious success. ....... for China.

Careful... you're showing your true colors there.

I must say german media gave me a laugh this morning:

An article called "How to manipulate Trump in 8 easy steps"

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/art ... itten.html

Step 1:

have a large military parade

Step 2:

golden presents and Golf

Step 3:

Pomp and Circumstance

Step 4:

flattery and giving the impression of giving trump a special courtesy

Step 5:

simple food (Japan served burgers from Kobe beef, China made the Chinese dinner western style)

Step 6:

consider his private business interests

Step 7:

show to be an autocratic leader or express your support for such leadership style by attacking the press

Step 8:

support his election campaign

seahawk wrote:

Another big win for trump. A special counselor for the Clinton crimes is probably coming: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... al-counsel

Put them behind bars!!

And the state visits were another huge victory, the people love and respect Trump and accept him as the leader of the world. It was a glorious success. ....... for China.

You mean the "crime" that had to be approved by several high level government agencies and Hillary was most likely not involved?

http://deadstate.org/shep-smith-debunks ... olleagues/

That "crime"?

And just gloss over the fawning and love fest tRump had with two dictators.

seahawk wrote:

I must say german media gave me a laugh this morning:

An article called "How to manipulate Trump in 8 easy steps"

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/art ... itten.html

Step 1:

have a large military parade

Step 2:

golden presents and Golf

Step 3:

Pomp and Circumstance

Step 4:

flattery and giving the impression of giving trump a special courtesy

Step 5:

simple food (Japan served burgers from Kobe beef, China made the Chinese dinner western style)

Step 6:

consider his private business interests

Step 7:

show to be an autocratic leader or express your support for such leadership style by attacking the press

Step 8:

support his election campaign

Spot on, would say...

BTW, this investigation into the uranium deal, does anyone think the timing of the investigations comes at a strange time? I mean: why weren't they investigated when Republicans had control of both houses of Congress? Why was none of this discussed during the campaign? The timing of bringing this up seems suspicious.

And so it starts. Time for the Republicans to come clean, either to support the president or to impeach him. Interesting times.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 56611.html

seb146 wrote:

The timing of bringing this up seems suspicious.

Isn't this he same argument used by various scumbags such as Moore in Alabama?

BobPatterson wrote:

seb146 wrote:

The timing of bringing this up seems suspicious.

Isn't this he same argument used by various scumbags such as Moore in Alabama?

Oh, the irony...

Shouldn't Sessions be removed from office if he can not remember so much? All his answers are how he can not remember. There are even pictures that show him meeting people he says he does not remember. How is he effective if he can not remember anything important like meeting Russians?

You can say a lot about Trump, but he is a source of endless entertainment.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/9309 ... 48/video/1

https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/sta ... 20/photo/1

What goes around, comes around.

Dutchy wrote:

You can say a lot about Trump, but he is a source of endless entertainment.

I don't like that wee feel of choking that goes with it.

We've been very lucky with Reagan.
I hope we can weather Trump with similar amounts of luck.

WIederling wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

You can say a lot about Trump, but he is a source of endless entertainment.

I don't like that wee feel of choking that goes with it.

We've been very lucky with Reagan.
I hope we can weather Trump with similar amounts of luck.

It is easier when you don't live in America I guess. The rest of the world "only" needs to worry about Trump starting a nuclear war and Trump & co refusal to do something about climate change.

His success got to be in the great improvised speeches he delivers:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jHzv-UDXeC4


No Tax On Rotax

And we can sleep a little better tonight, thanks to John Hyten. Kuddos to him for taking his job seriously.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rike-order

Dutchy wrote:

The rest of the world "only" needs to worry about Trump starting a nuclear war and Trump & co refusal to do something about climate change.

I wouldn't be so sure. It's easy to underestimate the damage his heinousness and stupidity can engender.

Trump's disastrous diplomacy and geopolitical strategy (if one can call it that) is bound to profoundly change the global scene for a long time to come.

He is precipitating the rise of China as a World superpower and the de facto acknowledgement of its undemocratic leadership and lack of respect for human rights.
His natural affinity with autocrats and dictators is empowering other rogue nations in furthering their oppressive regimes, starting with Putin's Russia, and including el-Sisi's Egypt, Duterte's Philippines, Erdogan's Turkey, etc.
The West's values of justice equality, freedom and people's power over their governments are being so severely undermined and deprecated by Trump's 'leadership' that the US is now used by despots as an example of the pointlessness of democracy and as a justification of their amoral behaviors.

Once Trump is done unleashing his ineptitude on the World, the global political landscape will have been turned on its head and a new World order will likely emerge, one in which the US will find itself being a relatively much smaller player in, at the expense of most democratic values.

I wonder if his net worth will also turn out to be inflated by more than an order of magnitude.... and not just his revenue:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... mg00000009

On the bright side: He probably can´t funnel enough tax payer money into his pockets to make up for the freefall in value of his other holdings....

best regards
Thomas

Expect Trumps next Twitter rant:

Michael Flynn May Be Cooperating With Robert Mueller’s Russia Probe: Report
The former national security adviser could be trying to negotiate a deal with the special counsel.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mi ... mg00000009

best regards
Thomas

Mueller's strategy is quite clear.

He knows that he won't be able to get to the top as Trump has been intentionally shielded from all of the shady dealings by an air gap. There won't be a paper trail or anything substantial to incriminate him directly (although there is a sh#t ton of circumstantial evidence).

He is now gathering as much prison-worthy evidence on the main protagonists of the collusion (whether the charges have anything to do with it or not) in order to get them to sing for a deal...
Oldest trick in the FBI manual, I believe. The water's getting warmer.

Two funny stories

Trump hails 'invisible' plane in remarks to coast guard: 'The enemy cannot see it'
Discussing the air force when speaking to a different service, president again praises F-35, which is not invisible and has faced a costly development process

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... guard-f-35

The president of the United States is not on vacation.

That was the White House’s message on Wednesday after President Donald Trump arrived at Mar-a-Lago, his palatial private club in Florida, to celebrate the Thanksgiving holiday with his family.

Trump and his aides insisted that the president would use his time at what they’ve dubbed the “Winter White House” to make progress on tax reform and other top priorities, even as he spent much of his first day back in Florida since April at the nearby Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach.

“Will be having meetings and working the phones from the Winter White House in Florida (Mar-a-Lago),” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning.

And of course, he went on to play golf right after these Tweets


https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/ ... ing-259471

Dutchy wrote:

Two funny stories

Trump hails 'invisible' plane in remarks to coast guard: 'The enemy cannot see it'
Discussing the air force when speaking to a different service, president again praises F-35, which is not invisible and has faced a costly development process

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... guard-f-35

The president of the United States is not on vacation.

That was the White House’s message on Wednesday after President Donald Trump arrived at Mar-a-Lago, his palatial private club in Florida, to celebrate the Thanksgiving holiday with his family.

Trump and his aides insisted that the president would use his time at what they’ve dubbed the “Winter White House” to make progress on tax reform and other top priorities, even as he spent much of his first day back in Florida since April at the nearby Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach.

“Will be having meetings and working the phones from the Winter White House in Florida (Mar-a-Lago),” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning.

And of course, he went on to play golf right after these Tweets


https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/ ... ing-259471

Of course, during his video conference with the troops, he blamed Obama for everything before golfing. Which is so much better than actually going to be with the troops like those loser presidents before him....

Francoflier wrote:

Mueller's strategy is quite clear..

yup, find enough state crimes to get convictions without any pardons getting in the way.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

Mueller's strategy is quite clear..

yup, find enough state crimes to get convictions without any pardons getting in the way.

best regards
Thomas

You mean like a real prosecutor/investigator, no special considerations for the executive branche?

And the wins keep on coming:

Trump FCC chair unveils plan to repeal net neutrality

The days of net neutrality are numbered.
Ajit Pai, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, unveiled his controversial plan to repeal Obama-era protections intended to keep the internet open and fair.
"Under my proposal, the federal government will stop micromanaging the Internet," Pai said in a statement Tuesday. "Instead, the FCC would simply require Internet service providers to be transparent about their practices."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/21/technol ... index.html

Another win for big business.

Dutchy wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/21/technology/fcc-net-neutrality/index.html

Another win for big business.

and finally they have the funds to relocate more jobs to China, Vietnam and the like....

best regards
Thomas

Now we have official word on who is the favored network of tRump, as if we had any doubt

https://latest.com/2017/11/trump-just-d ... -than-cnn/

And now the Tweeter In Chief has appointed to the head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, a man who said the CFPB is a joke and wants it taken away

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-mulvaney

Even though the outgoing chief has already named a successor and the CFPB was created to protect We The People.

They will torpoedo it the way Trump's torpedoed the EPA.
Yet another boon for corporation and other GOP donors in the form of deregulation at the expense of a majority of Americans.

God save the rich!

I'm particularly inclined to mention the GREAT success of TIME calling Trump to tell him he was selected for Person of the Year and how he turned down the offer because he'd have to be at a photoshoot and interviewed. Needless to say, TIME burned him to the ground.

In related news, the Nobel Science Committee decided to name me a Science Laureate but that meant I'd have to travel to Norway and report money as income so I turned them down.

seahawk wrote:

Another big win for trump. A special counselor for the Clinton crimes is probably coming: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... al-counsel

Put them behind bars!!.

no

Are you serious that you think that Hillary under special counsel is a "big win" for Trump? Is his presidency just about election revenge?

You know what, why won't Trump supporters talk about "Crooked Obama"? Because Obama, even though he was too liberal, was CLEAN. No multiple wives, no affair scandals, no boasting of sexual assault, no hitting on married women, no demeaning of immigrants, women, African-Americans or other minorities, no wacky immigrant ban, no Russia connection, no Scaramucci, no Flynn, no Bannon, no crazy threats to North Korea, no belittling of ally leaders, no obsession with Time magazine, no Nazi-good-people. Trump is indeed responsible for some of the lowest moments in recent US history. As President a total and complete disaster, bared by his own writing in Twitter.

The whole Trump election was about revenge. Revenge by the honest conservative majority against the liberal traitors.

seahawk wrote:

The whole Trump election was about revenge. Revenge by the honest conservative majority against the liberal traitors.

Do you understand the meanings of words you use?

Traitor is a word that only fits Donald Trump. He is the only American politician since Benedict Arnold to actually sell out his country to an enemy state.

seahawk wrote:

The whole Trump election was about revenge. Revenge by the honest conservative majority against the liberal traitors.

That's a good way of putting it.

salttee wrote:

seahawk wrote:

The whole Trump election was about revenge. Revenge by the honest conservative majority against the liberal traitors.

Do you understand the meanings of words you use?

Traitor is a word that only fits Donald Trump. He is the only American politician since Benedict Arnold to actually sell out his country to an enemy state.

That would be treason. I doubt the case has been made for that (yet).

But it is indeed traitorous to take the oath to "Preserve and Defend....." and then. almost immediately and consistently violate that oath. And to encourage others to do likewise.

salttee wrote:

seahawk wrote:

The whole Trump election was about revenge. Revenge by the honest conservative majority against the liberal traitors.

Do you understand the meanings of words you use?

Traitor is a word that only fits Donald Trump. He is the only American politician since Benedict Arnold to actually sell out his country to an enemy state.

That might be true, but facts do rarely win elections, feelings do. And as the Trump victory shows, a large part of the US society feels or felt sold out by the previous administration to such an extent that they were willing to vote for Trump. People were generally unhappy with the status quo and Hillary was the personalized status quo. So I guess revenge is a strong feeling and probably suitable to energize the Trump supporters.

And another episode of the fity between Donald Trump - an elected official to the highest office of his country I might add - and CNN:

Donald J. Trump wrote:

@FoxNews is MUCH more important in the United States than CNN, but outside of the U.S., CNN International is still a major source of (Fake) news, and they represent our Nation to the WORLD very poorly. The outside world does not see the truth from them!

CNN Communications wrote:

It's not CNN's job to represent the U.S to the world. That's yours. Our job is to report the news. #FactsFirst

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/934559 ... wsrc%5Etfw

Man oh man.

seahawk wrote:

That might be true, but facts do rarely win elections, feelings do. And as the Trump victory shows, a large part of the US society feels or felt sold out by the previous administration to such an extent that they were willing to vote for Trump. People were generally unhappy with the status quo and Hillary was the personalized status quo. So I guess revenge is a strong feeling and probably suitable to energize the Trump supporters.

That might be the indeed the best analysis, Trump didn't win, the status quo lost. But with this president, the status quo indeed has been changed, but for the vast majority, sadly including the vast majority of the Trump voters, things changed for the worse.

So the question is, what's next? Back to the status quo before the Trump era? Or to something better than the status quo of 2016? More inline of Sanders and the like?

Dutchy wrote:

That might be the indeed the best analysis, Trump didn't win, the status quo lost. But with this president, the status quo indeed has been changed, but for the vast majority, sadly including the vast majority of the Trump voters, things changed for the worse.

Trump won. You are in denial or trying to redefine "win". Face reality.

Dutchy wrote:

So the question is, what's next? Back to the status quo before the Trump era? Or to something better than the status quo of 2016? More inline of Sanders and the like?

The extreme left is no better than the tea party for healing the nation and bringing about compromise (an old norm sadly neglected in recent decades).

Sanders and his ilk are not compromise candidates.

BobPatterson wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

That might be the indeed the best analysis, Trump didn't win, the status quo lost. But with this president, the status quo indeed has been changed, but for the vast majority, sadly including the vast majority of the Trump voters, things changed for the worse.

Trump won. You are in denial or trying to redefine "win". Face reality.

Dutchy wrote:

So the question is, what's next? Back to the status quo before the Trump era? Or to something better than the status quo of 2016? More inline of Sanders and the like?

The extreme left is no better than the tea party for healing the nation and bringing about compromise (an old norm sadly neglected in recent decades).

Sanders and his ilk are not compromise candidates.

Still not reacting to you, no need to try to lure me into reacting to you.

WE WIN ! !

Dutchy wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

That might be the indeed the best analysis, Trump didn't win, the status quo lost. But with this president, the status quo indeed has been changed, but for the vast majority, sadly including the vast majority of the Trump voters, things changed for the worse.

Trump won. You are in denial or trying to redefine "win". Face reality.

Dutchy wrote:

So the question is, what's next? Back to the status quo before the Trump era? Or to something better than the status quo of 2016? More inline of Sanders and the like?

The extreme left is no better than the tea party for healing the nation and bringing about compromise (an old norm sadly neglected in recent decades).

Sanders and his ilk are not compromise candidates.

Still not reacting to you, no need to try to lure me into reacting to you.

You reacted. Or did someone else post this for you?

BobPatterson wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

Still not reacting to you, no need to try to lure me into reacting to you.

You reacted. Or did someone else post this for you?

You two are adorable...

Lilienthal wrote:

You two are adorable...

I'm reacting to your avatar. Wonderful.

US President Donald Trump has mocked a political rival as Pocahontas - as he welcomed Native Americans to the White House.
Addressing Navajo tribe members, the president dropped in his nickname for Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren.
The former Harvard professor was criticised in 2012 when it emerged she had claimed Native American ancestry without offering proof of such lineage.
Pocahontas was the daughter of a 17th Century indigenous chief.
President Trump was hosting an event on Monday for Native American code talkers who used their native language to outwit the enemy in wartime, as the Japanese had no translators that could understand their radio communications.
He said: "You're very, very special people. You were here long before any of us were here.
"Although we have a representative here in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42146195

BobPatterson wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

So the question is, what's next? Back to the status quo before the Trump era? Or to something better than the status quo of 2016? More inline of Sanders and the like?

The extreme left is no better than the tea party for healing the nation and bringing about compromise (an old norm sadly neglected in recent decades).

Sanders and his ilk are not compromise candidates.

So, Bob, it was great and wonderful and patriotic for righties to "make Obama a one term president" and to stall everything in the government under Obama but, suddenly it is bad and wrong and America hating for the far left to do the exact same thing you all just praised the right for doing?????