MSPbrandon
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Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:35 pm

Well this is interesting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcinty ... ad8acb5383

I will stick with my Rock, thank you.

Thoughts?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:16 pm

I'm with you!
 
wingman
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:17 pm

I just started watching The Defiant Ones on HBO last night, it promises to be a fantastic documentary on the rise of this whole genre. The focus is on Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine and no matter what you think of the music itself (and I couldn't tell the difference between any of it) it's a compelling piece of work. I'll always a be a rock and blues guy myself, with periods of jazz and swing thrown into the mix, but this hippy hoppy rap stuff I just don't get. For the life of me I can't decipher the musical talent in 98% of it. But then I'm an aging white dude raised on Bowie and Zeppelin so that probably explains my viewpoint.
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:10 am

This was sort of a foregone conclusion after grunge, alternative, and numetal went through the cycle of being co-opted by the establishment, played out, and abandoned. While there were and are many many great artists in non hip-hop/R&B genres since that time, there's been no huge movement. Hip-hop/R&B just kept producing juggernaut after juggernaut. Five year olds know who Beyonce is, etc.

I take issue with the term "R&B" (rhythm and blues) being used to describe the current so-called R&B you'd hear on the radio, but I also take issue with "country" being used to describe the current so-called country you'd hear on the radio. "Country" is rock informed by Southern culture. "R&B" is pop informed by black culture. (Un?)fortunately, nobody gives a crap what I or other music snobs think, and the genres keep their names.

While hip-hop and R&B (and country, not to be confused with alt-country, which is actually country) are my least favorite genres, there is some amazing amazing talent there. I just personally don't like a good chunk of their art. Give me a steady diet of Warpaint and First Aid Kit and a stable full of singer-songwriters and music geeks who like nothing better to play with a room full of synthesizers and samplers and tape loops and I'll be set for life.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:32 am

treetreeseven wrote:
I take issue with the term "R&B" (rhythm and blues) being used to describe............


Thanks for describing what some of these modern genres might mean.

I didn't think R&B would mean something really good like Rachmaninoff & Beethoven.
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LittleFokker
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:26 am

Eh, this news doesn't register much with me. I listen to some pop songs ever since 2008 when I started listening to FM radio again (my CD collection was stolen out of my truck and I was never inspired to replace them, and I missed out on setting up mp3s and online music accounts). My music tastes have varied greatly over the years, and music genres come and go. Remember, disco was once popular.

I think a more fascinating topic of discussion is how people consume music, how artists get paid, the relevance of agents and managers, and the relevance of even making an album in the age of quickly modernizing technologies. It used to be that a band would start by playing local gigs for next to no money, they get discovered and signed by an agency, an album is made, the hits of that album get pushed to radio, and the band gets popular enough to go on a national tour to make the big bucks. And success was measured in album sales. Now, what is the path to stardom? YouTube? How much money can be made from YouTube hits? Why make an album? Are agents still necessary? Does a band still need to tour to be successful? How relevant is FM radio?
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treetreeseven
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:42 am

BobPatterson wrote:
I didn't think R&B would mean something really good like Rachmaninoff & Beethoven.

Haha. My dad was really into classical and opera, but I was a late baby, he was 20 years before the baby boom. He tried to get me into it but it didn't grab me. I listened to terrible pop music like any kid until about age 12, when I started my journey into whatever you call everything that *isn't* classical or contemporary orchestral music. Though funny enough, it's come around full circle and now some of my favorite pieces of music period are orchestral and from video games. To wit: https://youtu.be/QqNOrfoXWVc

I like a little really good 90s rap and little familiar but not so good 90s rap, but I'm just not motivated to dig into the genre as much as I am into a bunch of subgenres of rock, four or five genres in the electronic orbit, the vast folk rock and folk pop category that differentiates more by decade than by subgenre in my opinion, a few pop genres... they're all more compelling. I have a very very strong preference for melodic music with a lot of concordance and a strong preference for female vocals and a strong anti-preference for f*$@ing Auto-Tune, and I like *singing.* This is true no matter how aggressive or sweet the music is. It's just not the greatest set of seemingly hardwired preferences to match up with hip-hop.

That being said, there are rap songs that are so devastatingly effective they put my hair on end like any good piece of music in another genre. Culture innovates endlessly. You can only pursue the thinnest slice in a lifetime. Go with what you like.
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:04 am

LittleFokker wrote:
I think a more fascinating topic of discussion is how people consume music, how artists get paid, the relevance of agents and managers, and the relevance of even making an album in the age of quickly modernizing technologies. It used to be that a band would start by playing local gigs for next to no money, they get discovered and signed by an agency, an album is made, the hits of that album get pushed to radio, and the band gets popular enough to go on a national tour to make the big bucks. And success was measured in album sales. Now, what is the path to stardom? YouTube? How much money can be made from YouTube hits? Why make an album? Are agents still necessary? Does a band still need to tour to be successful? How relevant is FM radio?

The FM radio dial is a wasteland compared to what it used to be, and the worst thing is, after the anti-conglomerate laws were changed and Clear Channel sucked the soul out of radio... they still went friggin bankrupt!! You just can't make money in radio any more, so indie stations are pushed out. Low power FM rules were relaxed a while back but it's not a great solution especially in urban areas. Anyway, Clear Channel (now iHeartRadio) cut costs by switching many stations to remote automated programming. If there were jocks at all they were voicing programming hundreds of miles from where it was being broadcast. This was (and is, though it's not making money) perfectly primed to promote acts that were essentially grown in the pod farms by major labels. And, remote programming means no local music getting airplay in many markets. So radio started to suck badly as the 90s wore on into the 2000s. And then the internet came along.

It's now 2017 and the way the music industry works is still unstable and rapidly evolving. However something remains true now which had really started gathering steam by the mid 2000s. I saw the phenomenon best described as a "musical middle class." Many of the most amazing acts these days are rarely if ever going to play to a stadium. I've stood 10 feet from some of the best women in rock today in a venue that could maybe fit 400. The musical middle class makes enough money to live off their work, maybe reasonably comfortably. They may never sign with a major label. And there is so much demand and so much supply. The major blows delivered to the major-label domination of the music industry by the internet have, while obviously not free of negative side effects, fueled an unparalleled boom in quality and diversity of music available to any consumer with a network connection.

As for the path to stardom, my understanding is biased towards folk/rock/pop acts and until recently I didn't watch a lot of youtube despite having tech in my blood. So I don't know how many bands might come up on youtube. But from what I've seen, artists make albums because they love doing it, and they put them on soundcloud or bandcamp, and then they tour *relentlessly* for essentially no money and just keep winning fans slow but sure if they're good enough. As they hit that middle class they start pulling in money from licensing for TV. I was astounded to hear a song from one of my favorite bands (minus vocals) in a Barack Obama commercial, for example, and the biggest venue I've ever seen them in could fit *maybe* 1500?

Some mid-tier acts interact on social media a lot, some not so much even after getting some PR services, I've seen it work either way. One of my favorite artists who interacts with fans is Imogen Heap, who is ... art pop, kinda, I guess? ... anyway she had fans upload random samples and made songs out of them, and I saw her live and she sampled the audience singing random syllables chosen by somebody in the crowd, and then made a piece of music out of the raw samples right there on stage, and after the show it went up on her web site.

Culture innovates endlessly.
 
Cadet985
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:31 am

Hip hop, r & b, rap...they're all garbage. When I listen to terrestrial radio anymore, it's news, sports, or talk.

For music I have my iPhone which has my library on it, plus Pandora and SiriusXM.

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lugie
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:20 am

I am surprised to hear that, as most people my age group seem to be obsessed with the same type of Techno/House/EDM electronic crap which has lost any resemblance of "music" in my opinion.

I really enjoy listening to Rap, especially American hiphop because to me it is currently the genre that features the best lyricists. Sure, a lot of songs famous are rather stupid but I have yet to come across artists from any other genre that manage to tell incredibly deep and intelligent stories with a smooth flow and artistic rhymes over a catchy beat like Kendrick Lamar, J.Cole or others that really take the art of expressing themselves through rap seriously.

There is a lot of stigma surrounding rap and those who listen to it and I don't want to deny that a lot of crap is being produced but just fyi, for example J.Cole I mentioned above St.John's University in New York magna cum laude...
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:15 pm

There is too much great rock and pop-rock music, old and new, to listen to, for me to get interested in rap and R&B. I've heard the most popular acts of course and can like some of them, but not to the point of going deeper.

I like my techno/dance/electronica when at a club though.
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stratosphere
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:58 pm

Rap is that even music? I laugh when someone says rap "artist" nothing but crap and glorifies violence. Now if you wanna see black talent music wise I really liked 70's funk music. Like others have said there is plenty of great pop and rock music out there. But I guess everyone is entitled to listen to what they want even if it sucks
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:03 am

If that is true then it goes to show all that is wrong with America these days... can't even really call it music.
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tommy1808
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:44 am

stratosphere wrote:
Rap is that even music?


of course, why wouldn´t it be? Because you don´t like it?

I laugh when someone says rap "artist" nothing but crap and glorifies violence.


well, now we know you don´t listen to rap like ever....so, where do you get your talking points from?

But I guess everyone is entitled to listen to what they want even if it sucks


de gustibus non est disputandum....

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Thomas
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Flighty
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:48 am

R&B/soul is a proud genre consisting of live drums, live electric bass, sometimes a guitar, horns and singers, and piano. Consider Marvin Gaye's What's Goin On.

Today's music is usually not R&B, it is amateurish rap/ electronica. It's a young genre that is still just hokey and corny, IMO. It can't compare with the real music of the past. Someday it will, if there is a lot more talent and music development.
Last edited by Flighty on Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:49 am

MSPbrandon wrote:
Thoughts?


its a mood thing. My trip to work this morning had Limp Bizkits "My Gerneration", Martin Gerrix "Wizzard", Dead Can Dance "i am stretched on your grave", Nena "Irgendwie, irgendwo, irgendwann", N.E.R.D. "Lapdance" and Maschine Gun Kelly with Bad things ....
Drive home is very well going to be equally all over the place....

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Thomas
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seb146
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:55 am

stratosphere wrote:
But I guess everyone is entitled to listen to what they want even if it sucks


I hate zydeco. I don't get it. People enjoy it and I see the pure joy they have in their soul when they hear it.

When I hear people putting down other genres of music, I take it personally. Music is one thing we, as a species, have in common. It can unite us.

If you hate rap, fine. It means something to someone. I listen to a local public radio station that plays electronic music. I like some of the stuff, so I type in the artist name into my music downloading service and come back with some really good rap, hip hop, R&B, pop, country music.

On topic:

Hip Hop and R&B, I think, are speaking to working class and poor people. They see these artists coming from nothing and it gives them something. I am wondering why it took this long for Hip Hop to be the dominant style.
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treetreeseven
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:35 pm

seb146 wrote:
When I hear people putting down other genres of music, I take it personally. Music is one thing we, as a species, have in common. It can unite us.

If you hate rap, fine. It means something to someone.

:checkmark:

Hip Hop and R&B, I think, are speaking to working class and poor people. They see these artists coming from nothing and it gives them something. I am wondering why it took this long for Hip Hop to be the dominant style.

As I mentioned, rap/hip-hop are far from my favorite genres. But I do have favorite rap songs, and most of them either speak directly to the desperation and anger of being stuck at the bottom with few to no options, or are in some way overtly political.
 
coolian2
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:14 am

In this thread: people getting upset about something subjective that nobody is making them listen to.
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seb146
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:06 am

coolian2 wrote:
In this thread: people getting upset about something subjective that nobody is making them listen to.


Music is as emotionally charged as politics. One thing a large majority of people can agree on:

Bieber needs to stop.
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Kno
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:31 am

Hip-hop is my 2nd love after aviation.

I truely believe top tier Hiphop artists such as mos def or common or jayz or nas or groups like wu tang and outkast are the most incredible lyricists of any genre who have ever lived. Their ability to bend words and convey a story with multiple meanings is nothing short of genius when you take the time to appreciate the depth and beauty in their poetry.

Unfortunately many of you dismiss it based on limited knowledge and only note negative stereotypes but I can not blame you as I do the same with genres that don't speak to me.

If you take the time to appreciate the genre you can see the layers and complexities and soulfulness and honestly and power that the beats and lyrics of many artists offer. It is a craft and just as difficult to make as any genre.

Some people don't recognize this because it is a rebellious genre that is based on creating something out of nothing, but that is what is so beautiful about it to me. Hiphop is a rose that grew from concrete.

you won't find amazing rap on the radio or tv aside from maybe, Kendrick Lamar, so don't judge it harshly without doing some digging.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:14 am

Kno wrote:
I truely believe top tier Hiphop artists such as mos def or common or jayz or nas or groups like wu tang and outkast are the most incredible lyricists of any genre who have ever lived. Their ability to bend words and convey a story with multiple meanings is nothing short of genius when you take the time to appreciate the depth and beauty in their poetry.


i love it when i, due to ever improving englisch skills with using it more, discover a new layer of meaning in a song i´ve listened to for 25+ years, just because i didn´t know enough to understand it before.

best regards
Thomas
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BobPatterson
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:44 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Kno wrote:
I truely believe top tier Hiphop artists such as mos def or common or jayz or nas or groups like wu tang and outkast are the most incredible lyricists of any genre who have ever lived. Their ability to bend words and convey a story with multiple meanings is nothing short of genius when you take the time to appreciate the depth and beauty in their poetry.


i love it when i, due to ever improving englisch skills with using it more, discover a new layer of meaning in a song i´ve listened to for 25+ years, just because i didn´t know enough to understand it before.

best regards
Thomas


Tommy, I've wondered for at least 65 years whether the translation into English of the German Christmas Carol Stille Nacht was faithful to the intent/meaning of the lyrics by Joseph Mohr.

Wikipedia gives three of the six verses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Night

What do you think?
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tommy1808
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:55 am

BobPatterson wrote:
[Tommy, I've wondered for at least 65 years whether the translation into English of the German Christmas Carol Stille Nacht was faithful to the intent/meaning of the lyrics by Joseph Mohr.

Wikipedia gives three of the six verses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Night

What do you think?


I think it is a pretty faithful translation, although very different in its wording.

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht, - Silent night, holy night
Alles schläft; einsam wacht - everyone is sleeping, one is keeping watch
Nur das traute hochheilige Paar. - only the [can´t think of a good translation for traute), most holy couple
Holder Knabe im lockigen Haar, - lovely child in curly hair
Schlaf in himmlischer Ruh! - sleep in heavenly tranquility
Schlaf in himmlischer Ruh! - sleep in heavenly tranquility

so yeah... it is very freely translated, but i guess in terms of meaning its all right.

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Thomas
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:02 am

seb146 wrote:
Hip Hop and R&B, I think, are speaking to working class and poor people. They see these artists coming from nothing and it gives them something. I am wondering why it took this long for Hip Hop to be the dominant style.

Thanks for your post, it says a lot to me.

Heard a podcast with two GenX'ers whose musical center seemed to be U2, Perl Jam, Dave Matthews, REM, etc who were having a hard time coming to grips with the death of rock and roll, but to me it was/is inevitable. There were decades where most kids dream was to pick up an electric guitar, but those decades are gone. My parents favorite genre "died" as mine kicked in. I think the "death" is hastened because our tech allows us to cling to it as long as we want to. I kinda feel sorry for my parents because they can't seem to get past the tech hurdle and get them the stuff they like the best, no matter how hard I try to help them.

To me, it's pretty clear that most people's musical roots form and grow as they are youngsters and most of us don't stray too far from those roots as we grow. To me when I hear music I don't just hear rhythm / melody / lyrics / etc, if it's something I've heard in the past I get floods of memories of what was happening when I'd heard that song before. It ends up being a much more powerful experience than just listening to the song, and it's one that is really personal and compelling.

This same podcast was also saying the reason aging rock stars can go out on tour is just because aging baby boomers want to be able to show off to their friends by buying them tickets and making selfies and posting to Facebook etc. While there is some truth to that, they totally missed the attraction of the flood of memories I just described. I just was able to see a musician who was one of the first ones I liked when I was a teenager, It was an incredibly personal and powerful experience, and my experience was totally different than the ones sitting around me, but I could see in their faces that it was just as powerful to them. Yes, I paid what many would say was way too much for those tickets but would do it again in a heartbeat.

Same is true for rap artists. The stuff they've been putting out since the 80s has penetrated the souls of their listeners, and will be with them for life.

Same was true with my parents, who loved the crooners of the 50s/60s (Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett, etc) and never did catch on to that rock and roll stuff.

Kno wrote:
Unfortunately many of you dismiss it based on limited knowledge and only note negative stereotypes but I can not blame you as I do the same with genres that don't speak to me.

Some of us gave it a try but what we heard was very provocative themes of violence and glorification of drug dealing and abuse and degradation of women and gave it a pass. As you say, that's what people do with genres that don't speak to them. My parents gave rock and roll a pass because they liked the understated sexuality of the 50s/60s crooners rather than the more overt sexuality of the 70s era rockers.

Feel free to point me to some videos/lyrics that you think I'm missing out on and I'll give them a listen/read. I'm not sure I'll find the multiple meanings but I'm willing to give it a try.
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seb146
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Revelation wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Hip Hop and R&B, I think, are speaking to working class and poor people. They see these artists coming from nothing and it gives them something. I am wondering why it took this long for Hip Hop to be the dominant style.

Thanks for your post, it says a lot to me.

Heard a podcast with two GenX'ers whose musical center seemed to be U2, Perl Jam, Dave Matthews, REM, etc who were having a hard time coming to grips with the death of rock and roll, but to me it was/is inevitable. There were decades where most kids dream was to pick up an electric guitar, but those decades are gone. My parents favorite genre "died" as mine kicked in. I think the "death" is hastened because our tech allows us to cling to it as long as we want to. I kinda feel sorry for my parents because they can't seem to get past the tech hurdle and get them the stuff they like the best, no matter how hard I try to help them.

To me, it's pretty clear that most people's musical roots form and grow as they are youngsters and most of us don't stray too far from those roots as we grow. To me when I hear music I don't just hear rhythm / melody / lyrics / etc, if it's something I've heard in the past I get floods of memories of what was happening when I'd heard that song before. It ends up being a much more powerful experience than just listening to the song, and it's one that is really personal and compelling.

This same podcast was also saying the reason aging rock stars can go out on tour is just because aging baby boomers want to be able to show off to their friends by buying them tickets and making selfies and posting to Facebook etc. While there is some truth to that, they totally missed the attraction of the flood of memories I just described. I just was able to see a musician who was one of the first ones I liked when I was a teenager, It was an incredibly personal and powerful experience, and my experience was totally different than the ones sitting around me, but I could see in their faces that it was just as powerful to them. Yes, I paid what many would say was way too much for those tickets but would do it again in a heartbeat.

Same is true for rap artists. The stuff they've been putting out since the 80s has penetrated the souls of their listeners, and will be with them for life.

Same was true with my parents, who loved the crooners of the 50s/60s (Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett, etc) and never did catch on to that rock and roll stuff.


I guess I am an anomaly. I am GenX and enjoy the current music scene. There are songs and bands that remind me of certain times in my life. There are also current artists that have a good voice and good songs. Including rap and rock. I tend toward electronic music and even that has some good artists.

I don't think rock is dying. I think music is cyclical. Rock is just being played down for a while.
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BobPatterson
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
Same was true with my parents, who loved the crooners of the 50s/60s (Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett, etc) and never did catch on to that rock and roll stuff.

Sounds like you had the benefit of good parents. I'll bet they told you that sexism is not nice :-)

No mention of Patti Page, Jo Stafford, Andrews Sisters, Fontane Sisters?

Mandatory dancing class in 7th Grade wouldn't have been any fun without Patti Page.
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treetreeseven
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
I guess I am an anomaly. I am GenX and enjoy the current music scene. There are songs and bands that remind me of certain times in my life. There are also current artists that have a good voice and good songs. Including rap and rock. I tend toward electronic music and even that has some good artists.

I don't think rock is dying. I think music is cyclical. Rock is just being played down for a while.

There is also a vast ocean of music of all genres that receives little to no airplay on the wasteland that is the FM dial. Just because the major labels aren't pumping it out doesn't mean it's dead.
 
seb146
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:35 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I guess I am an anomaly. I am GenX and enjoy the current music scene. There are songs and bands that remind me of certain times in my life. There are also current artists that have a good voice and good songs. Including rap and rock. I tend toward electronic music and even that has some good artists.

I don't think rock is dying. I think music is cyclical. Rock is just being played down for a while.

There is also a vast ocean of music of all genres that receives little to no airplay on the wasteland that is the FM dial. Just because the major labels aren't pumping it out doesn't mean it's dead.


I touched a little on this in the "TV Antenna Hack" thread but you bring up an interesting point.

People are probably turning to music sites and listening to more rap and hip hop because commercial radio is so homogenized. We have one commercial station here that literally plays the same song every two hours. That stupid song about "curves like the back of my hand" or whatever. When it first came out, I was okay with it. Nothing that I would go out of my way to listen to. But, now, I want to jam rusty nails in my ears when it comes on. And it has only been like two or three weeks that song has been out.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
I guess I am an anomaly. I am GenX and enjoy the current music scene. There are songs and bands that remind me of certain times in my life. There are also current artists that have a good voice and good songs. Including rap and rock. I tend toward electronic music and even that has some good artists.

When I think of electronic music I think of Emerson, Lake and Palmer, early Genesis, Yes, etc and somehow I doubt you're thinking of those artists! :biggrin:
I'm glad to read that you are what I would call a musical omnivore. I know several people like you, but I'm not one of them. I find it hard to pick up new things, especially ones outside of my core genre. At least I'm still into music. Many of my friends haven't seen a live act in years if not decades, and are totally passive / don't care when it comes to recorded music. It just isn't a "thing" for them.

seb146 wrote:
I don't think rock is dying. I think music is cyclical. Rock is just being played down for a while.

Yet it's well understood electric guitar sales are tanking, kids aren't getting music ed in school any more, the airwaves have been saturated with rap for decades, rock is "dad music", etc.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:37 am

seb146 wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I guess I am an anomaly. I am GenX and enjoy the current music scene. There are songs and bands that remind me of certain times in my life. There are also current artists that have a good voice and good songs. Including rap and rock. I tend toward electronic music and even that has some good artists.

I don't think rock is dying. I think music is cyclical. Rock is just being played down for a while.

There is also a vast ocean of music of all genres that receives little to no airplay on the wasteland that is the FM dial. Just because the major labels aren't pumping it out doesn't mean it's dead.


I touched a little on this in the "TV Antenna Hack" thread but you bring up an interesting point.

People are probably turning to music sites and listening to more rap and hip hop because commercial radio is so homogenized. We have one commercial station here that literally plays the same song every two hours. That stupid song about "curves like the back of my hand" or whatever. When it first came out, I was okay with it. Nothing that I would go out of my way to listen to. But, now, I want to jam rusty nails in my ears when it comes on. And it has only been like two or three weeks that song has been out.

Pretty much. Clear Channel did much of the work destroying FM radio after the antitrust rules about media consolidation were weakened, and still failed to make money off it, but the damage is done and will take a long time to heal if it ever really does.

There's an Entercom station in my city which is the least worst of the high power "alternative" / hot AC stations in the market, and still, if you turn them on and the last digit on your clock is a 0 or a 5, they're playing Red Hot Chili Peppers again (still). :bored:

I was done with FM radio by about 2003. Here's what's brought me back, a little:

* The low power FM revolution. There are now several low power FM stations in my market, and one of them is even good half the time! However, bigger broadcasters fight them tooth and nail, and low power means low power - small range, and staticky. I put up with the static, it even adds a bit of ambiance to some of the shows I like, but it's not great. Fortunately, however, there's ...

* Streaming. Of stations run by humans, not algorithms. Truly good FM stations may be few and far between, but now their reach is global. I stream KCRW-HD2 Santa Monica (aka "eclectic24") and KEXP Seattle a good bit, along with various other online-only stations, some of which are really good quality. The best DJ I've ever heard does a couple shows for SomaFM's Bagel Radio, which is online only.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:54 am

Hip-Hop was, as we all know, born in 1979. I was 12 at the time, and didn't get it. When rap evolved I was in my teens, and still didn't get it. I'm now approaching the 'grumpy old bastard' age, and still don't get it. Chances are, then, that I never will.

I do enjoy bringing up the number '1979' when some dimwitted millenial offers a story of how hip-hop is the latest and greatest. They usually don't believe me, but when I dial up 'rappers delight' on Spotify they all recognise it. When I show them when it was released they nearly all faint, uttering something along the lines of 'OMG, it's older than my dad'.

It is, however, my firm conviction that some of the most overrated 'artists' of today are in the R&B/Hip-hop genre. Kanye West, for one, Jay Z for another. Without autotune neither of them would be able to sell a single album. Compare that, if you will, to R&B artists of old such as Marvin Gaye or Aretha Franklin, who could sing so well it almost made you cry.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:26 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Same was true with my parents, who loved the crooners of the 50s/60s (Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin, Tony Bennett, etc) and never did catch on to that rock and roll stuff.

Sounds like you had the benefit of good parents. I'll bet they told you that sexism is not nice :-)

No mention of Patti Page, Jo Stafford, Andrews Sisters, Fontane Sisters?

Mandatory dancing class in 7th Grade wouldn't have been any fun without Patti Page.

Sexism was alive and well in the "Mad Men" era. I doubt my parents would object to a female singer. It just seemed there were more male recording artists on the radio and in the record stores.

treetreeseven wrote:
There is also a vast ocean of music of all genres that receives little to no airplay on the wasteland that is the FM dial. Just because the major labels aren't pumping it out doesn't mean it's dead.

It's always been in the corporations interest to have as few artists as possible selling as much product as possible. That effect was quite visible even in the pre-internet era. The problem is we like diversity so there's an implicit conflict. Unfortunately corporations always expect "the other guy" to provide the diversity while they cash in selling lowest common denominator dreck to the masses.

It does seem ironic to me that the same technology wave that brought us automated DJs also brought us their antedote, streaming internet radio stations.

The record companies did provide a fairly useful function, which was identifying, developing and promoting talent. They still do, but for a much smaller number of artists.

B777LRF wrote:
Hip-Hop was, as we all know, born in 1979. I was 12 at the time, and didn't get it. When rap evolved I was in my teens, and still didn't get it. I'm now approaching the 'grumpy old bastard' age, and still don't get it. Chances are, then, that I never will.

I do enjoy bringing up the number '1979' when some dimwitted millenial offers a story of how hip-hop is the latest and greatest. They usually don't believe me, but when I dial up 'rappers delight' on Spotify they all recognise it. When I show them when it was released they nearly all faint, uttering something along the lines of 'OMG, it's older than my dad'.

Yep, old school is pretty old. I remember one of my friends (a true musical omnivore) was a boring white intellectual guy but was all in to rap in the 70s. When Blondie's "Rapture" hit the airwaves in 80/81 he said "let me play you the real stuff".

It is, however, my firm conviction that some of the most overrated 'artists' of today are in the R&B/Hip-hop genre. Kanye West, for one, Jay Z for another. Without autotune neither of them would be able to sell a single album. Compare that, if you will, to R&B artists of old such as Marvin Gaye or Aretha Franklin, who could sing so well it almost made you cry.


I suspect we're going to be saying the same thing about great guitar players in the future. Music is so dumbed down and there's so many other compelling things to do that few kids are picking up guitars. Also music ed has been whacked back pretty hard, and the decline of the music industry as a whole means they see fewer working musicians as role models. For example, weddings that used to have a live band now end up having a DJ instead From what I see, music just isn't as impactful to youngsters these days as it was to kids decades ago.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:47 am

Revelation wrote:
Kno wrote:
Unfortunately many of you dismiss it based on limited knowledge and only note negative stereotypes but I can not blame you as I do the same with genres that don't speak to me.

Some of us gave it a try but what we heard was very provocative themes of violence and glorification of drug dealing and abuse and degradation of women and gave it a pass. As you say, that's what people do with genres that don't speak to them. My parents gave rock and roll a pass because they liked the understated sexuality of the 50s/60s crooners rather than the more overt sexuality of the 70s era rockers.

Feel free to point me to some videos/lyrics that you think I'm missing out on and I'll give them a listen/read. I'm not sure I'll find the multiple meanings but I'm willing to give it a try.


Have you tried Chap Hop? ;)

'Dammit It Feels Good To Be A Chap' by Mr.B The Gentleman Rhymer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xj02gt-5Ug
Straight out of Surrey by Mr B the Gentleman Rhymer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj7J7vXCf5w
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:51 am

tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
[Tommy, I've wondered for at least 65 years whether the translation into English of the German Christmas Carol Stille Nacht was faithful to the intent/meaning of the lyrics by Joseph Mohr.

Wikipedia gives three of the six verses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Night

What do you think?


I think it is a pretty faithful translation, although very different in its wording.

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht, - Silent night, holy night
Alles schläft; einsam wacht - everyone is sleeping, one is keeping watch
Nur das traute hochheilige Paar. - only the [can´t think of a good translation for traute), most holy couple
Holder Knabe im lockigen Haar, - lovely child in curly hair
Schlaf in himmlischer Ruh! - sleep in heavenly tranquility
Schlaf in himmlischer Ruh! - sleep in heavenly tranquility

so yeah... it is very freely translated, but i guess in terms of meaning its all right.

best regards
Thomas


I'm not a native German speaker, but I'd say that traute is an adjectivization of the verb trauen (to believe).
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:49 pm

Bostrom wrote:
Have you tried Chap Hop? ;)

'Dammit It Feels Good To Be A Chap' by Mr.B The Gentleman Rhymer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xj02gt-5Ug
Straight out of Surrey by Mr B the Gentleman Rhymer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj7J7vXCf5w

That sure breaks the mould! :biggrin:
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:11 am

Bostrom wrote:
[I'm not a native German speaker, but I'd say that traute is an adjectivization of the verb trauen (to believe).


good guess, but unfortunately it also means being brave and getting married... there is quite the range ;-)

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:13 pm

As someone who grew up listening to "true" R&B in the 70s,80s and 90s. Heard "true" rap when it had a message not bragging about a rich lifestyle or demeaning women, this stuff today doesn't interest me.

The techno / dance trend of a couple of years ago,......meh,...... Pet Shop Boys,Moby,Dead can Dance, did it twenty years earlier.

Country Rap!!?........The END IS NEAR!!........When I heard Florida/Georgia State line, I took off running in abject fear!!!

With the advent of Pandora , Youtube ( more people hear new music through this than any other medium) and Spotify, and the ability to hear what one wants, I am surprised the music consumer is not more segregated. FM listening for sure must be going down.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:50 pm

william wrote:
As someone who grew up listening to "true" R&B in the 70s,80s and 90s. Heard "true" rap when it had a message not bragging about a rich lifestyle or demeaning women, this stuff today doesn't interest me.

The techno / dance trend of a couple of years ago,......meh,...... Pet Shop Boys,Moby,Dead can Dance, did it twenty years earlier.

Country Rap!!?........The END IS NEAR!!........When I heard Florida/Georgia State line, I took off running in abject fear!!!

With the advent of Pandora , Youtube ( more people hear new music through this than any other medium) and Spotify, and the ability to hear what one wants, I am surprised the music consumer is not more segregated. FM listening for sure must be going down.

Interesting comments on the early days of rap.

I also find the YouTube "loophole" pretty amazing. Indeed you can get everything you ever want to listen to there. And there are plenty of browser extensions one can find to download audio-only versions of the content. If you're moderately tech savvy and diligent you can fill terabytes with as much music as you care to download. On one hand it's amazing that we've ended up at this state of affairs. On the other hand,when you go back through the history of how the record industry reacted to the arrival of internet streaming, it is not.

Same is true for video, but to a lesser degree. Since I'm a history/science buff, almost all of my viewing these days is watching documentaries on YouTube. I find it amazing that in almost all cases the content provider is getting nothing or next to nothing for their work while Google gets richer and richer.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:07 am

Revelation wrote:
william wrote:
As someone who grew up listening to "true" R&B in the 70s,80s and 90s. Heard "true" rap when it had a message not bragging about a rich lifestyle or demeaning women, this stuff today doesn't interest me.

The techno / dance trend of a couple of years ago,......meh,...... Pet Shop Boys,Moby,Dead can Dance, did it twenty years earlier.

Country Rap!!?........The END IS NEAR!!........When I heard Florida/Georgia State line, I took off running in abject fear!!!

With the advent of Pandora , Youtube ( more people hear new music through this than any other medium) and Spotify, and the ability to hear what one wants, I am surprised the music consumer is not more segregated. FM listening for sure must be going down.

Interesting comments on the early days of rap.

I also find the YouTube "loophole" pretty amazing. Indeed you can get everything you ever want to listen to there. And there are plenty of browser extensions one can find to download audio-only versions of the content. If you're moderately tech savvy and diligent you can fill terabytes with as much music as you care to download. On one hand it's amazing that we've ended up at this state of affairs. On the other hand,when you go back through the history of how the record industry reacted to the arrival of internet streaming, it is not.

Same is true for video, but to a lesser degree. Since I'm a history/science buff, almost all of my viewing these days is watching documentaries on YouTube. I find it amazing that in almost all cases the content provider is getting nothing or next to nothing for their work while Google gets richer and richer.


You don't even have to be tech savvy, the audio quality isn't the best though.

Youtube has become the go to place for a artist trying to get notice. Its a go around the big record execs. In a way I feel for artists because the days of living off a gold selling Album are gone. You are right the record execs should have embraced downloaded music better just as Sears should not have shut down their Catalog store a year before Amazon started up, and the rest is history.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:43 am

B777LRF wrote:
It is, however, my firm conviction that some of the most overrated 'artists' of today are in the R&B/Hip-hop genre. Kanye West, for one, Jay Z for another. Without autotune neither of them would be able to sell a single album. Compare that, if you will, to R&B artists of old such as Marvin Gaye or Aretha Franklin, who could sing so well it almost made you cry.

Although I've been defending modern "R&B" and musical diversity in general here, I will agree with this, but I think it's a function of the very subject of this thread. Hip-hop and R&B are dominating, so it makes sense that the genre would have the biggest and best talent-free hacks.

william wrote:
With the advent of Pandora , Youtube ( more people hear new music through this than any other medium) and Spotify, and the ability to hear what one wants, I am surprised the music consumer is not more segregated. FM listening for sure must be going down.

You know, I ran some searches on this and data is harder to find than I would like.

However, the people most into music are not getting it from FM for the most part, I can assure you of that. The FM dial is nearly all watered-down swill + religioids in all but the mid to large size markets, where it's 90% watered-down swill + religioids and 10% wild card. I live in a pretty good market for independent radio and the only big name stations I ever listen to are my NPR affiliate and an Entercom alternative/hot AC station with local jocks (yay) and a playlist about 30 titles long, 10 of which are Red Hot Chili Peppers. I've had two favorite indie stations over the years, and the number of recording artists I discovered through the tiny indie stations utterly dwarfs what I've discovered through the big players.

Revelation wrote:
It does seem ironic to me that the same technology wave that brought us automated DJs also brought us their antedote, streaming internet radio stations.

The record companies did provide a fairly useful function, which was identifying, developing and promoting talent. They still do, but for a much smaller number of artists.

Computerized networked media is IMO probably the most significant pre-2010-or-so technological advance since the invention of writing, let alone the printing press. It not only disrupted DJing and content delivery, but the identification, development, and promotion of talent as well. This has ushered in an explosion of music the likes of which the world has never seen. And with social media and recommendation algorithms and clicking of "similar artists" links, it's not even difficult to find good stuff.

I also think all but the biggest artists are better off under this system. There are so many people now who would never have been heard outside their hometown in the old system, who can be heard by a small but global audience, and make some side cash licensing for TV and the like. That's good for everyone but the fat cats.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:19 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
I also think all but the biggest artists are better off under this system. There are so many people now who would never have been heard outside their hometown in the old system, who can be heard by a small but global audience, and make some side cash licensing for TV and the like. That's good for everyone but the fat cats.

It'd be interesting to see how many working musicians can support themselves from music, versus the recording studio era, let's call it 50s through 90s.

As above I knew a lot of musicians who could make enough money from things like playing in wedding bands (in the days before DJs took over) and occasional night club / bar gigs without a record contract.

And I know a few that were minor successes in the 70s (headliners in smaller venues, support acts in big stadium gigs) that still support themselves via a trickle of revenue from sales of originals, remasters, digital content, etc.

I personally suspect there were more working musicians per capita back then versus now.

But for sure there's more diversity and selection now than ever.

I just think most of those producing the new stuff need to have serious day jobs or family support to make a music career work out.
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:38 pm

I like all sorts of stuff but do admit the current chart stuff leaves me a bit cold. It's all recycled. Look at Run DMC, doing the same but IMO better all those years ago. A lot of the EDM stuff is also a fairly poor imitation of the mid 90s at best. In fact a good bit of it is just remixes of twenty year old tracks.

So I tend to turn the car radio off and put a CD on, and imagine Freddie Mercury standing majestically at Wembley. No contest, is there? Or Angus Young and Brian Johnson leading AC/DC in front of a 200,000 strong crowd at the River Plate Stadium. That's my tastes summed up.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:37 pm

Modern music now leaves me pretty bored too.

I'm happier listening to Green Day, Bernard Fanning, Chris Cornell (rip), Chester Bennington (rip), Queen, The Cranberries (always liked Dolores O'Riordan).

Silverchair I also listen to, Tenacious D too. But even older stuff like Midnight Oil, Eminem even if I'm in the right mood.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:35 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
Well this is interesting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcinty ... ad8acb5383

I will stick with my Rock, thank you.

Thoughts?


I think it all depends on where you live. The US is not the rest of the world.

Something else I've noticed, my kids 6, 9 and 12 just aren't interested in music, none of there friends are either, watching you tubers and playing video games interests them, music doesn't.
 
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Re: Hip Hop / R&B is now the Dominant Music Genre in America

Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:06 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Something else I've noticed, my kids 6, 9 and 12 just aren't interested in music, none of there friends are either, watching you tubers and playing video games interests them, music doesn't.

Yes, that's a trend I mentioned above. When we were kids, one of the relatively way to stand out amongst peers was to be able to sing or play an instrument. Musical instruments were cheap to rent and most schools had free music programs, whilst computers were simply not accessible till late on one's education. Nowadays one can stand out using social media, without having to do all those tedious music lessons. It serves adults well too, they can just give the kids a few eGadgets which are cheaper than music lessons and keep the kiddos entertained far longer than would a musical instrument, and besides, you don't have to listen to the kiddo's terrible music practice. Also parents can think their taxes are a bit lower because they don't have to fund music programs. Win win, as they say. The sad part is that for centuries now people have realized that music plays a big role in human development. Guess we'll have to do without that now.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!

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