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Channex757
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NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:40 pm

Not just because it saved my life twice either. The US-based Commonwealth Fund studied multiple health systems and the good old NHS came out top, but not without some imperfections being identified either.

I'm one of the proponents of the idea of taking the best and making it better, with additional funding and also keeping privatisation out of front-line functions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40608253
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:23 pm

I'm very proud to work for the NHS. I may only be a fresh, newly qualified pharmacy technician, but when I'm out on those wards I see the difference the whole hospital team makes everyday. I'm glad that this wonderful system have helped you immensely.

Jeremy Hunt can go suck it.
Last edited by BlueberryWheats on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:23 pm

Congrats! The UK health care system always pegged me as good, and I think I can agree with the relative positions.
I do however wonder about the distance between No. 1 and 11, I'd feel that the systems are fairly close to each other. The US has very good health care, their downside is access and, causing it, price. But frinds in the US have usually been well taken care of, only with a MUCH bigger invoice coming.

Best regards
Thomas
Crooked Donald Trump an his team are extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. Not fit! #muchworsethanclinton
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:39 pm

Good job, UK
 
wingman
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:30 pm

Hmm, I bet this Commonwealth Fund just took over the #1 spot on the GOP's shit list. I don't know anything about them but they sound like enemies of freedom!
 
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Channex757
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:03 pm

What I think the NHS excels at is bang for buck. For the money it is allocated, the staff of the NHS do incredible work. They do need more resources especially in frontline locations such as casualty units, but the general practitioners nowadays are light years better than they were forty years ago with speciality sessions and nurse practitioners triageing minor ailments and longterm follow-up.

I'd like to also see the access to novel and new drugs fund made bigger. Doctors need to be able to apply to the fund for those big-ticket rare treatments.
 
Ken777
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:19 pm

Countries who rank highest (like the UK and Australia) have one important factor in common - they have eliminated cost shifting, which is a major inflation factor in the US. Until we address that issue we will continue to suffer premiums that are far higher than private insurance premiums in other countries.

These countries do face similar problems that we face - politicians who are not addressing the need for additional funding. That will be continual in all countries because politicians just will not want to fund health care at the needed levels. That, IMO, is one of the factors that hurt the UK 's lower outcomes in areas like cancer is that the best care starts with early detection and aggressive care when a positive result is found. That costs more money than governments ( AND private insurance companies) don't want to face.
 
bunumuring
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:52 am

Hey guys.
I have extensively used Australia's health care system over the decades and always, always, always had amazing care and treatment using the latest technology. Friends of mine who work in the hospital system say that the public hospitals are nowadays mostly equipped and staffed as well as the private ones. You only have to visit some of the bigger public hospitals like Liverpool and Westmead to see how up to date they are, and appear to be well-designed and functional places. Plans for major new redevelopments of hospitals at Blacktown and Campbelltown are ambitious and cutting-edge,. On the downside however, as always more nurses and doctors are needed to staff these hospitals particularly in rural areas like where I live, and there are some 'bad eggs' amongst hospital staff, like in every industry, but generally things are pretty good here in NSW I believe.
Ambulances however ... now THAT's a different story ... I heard first hand last night from a mate in Sydney that his mother in law waited FOUR hours a couple of days ago for an ambulance to take her from her nursing home to the local hospital after a serious fall (a five minute trip) ... and even then that ambulance came from the other side of Sydney!
Congratulations to all the medical staff who work in the NSW health system - I applaud you!
Cheers
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
PhilBy
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Having experienced both UK and French systems I would say that the French system is much better for those whose employment includes health insurance. For the rest, yes the NHS is better.

I agree with "It is not just low-income earners who receive poor care, the NHS's provision of care is equally poor for everybody, irrespective of income."
 
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OA260
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:07 pm

The NHS has its problems like any other health service but its a wonderful service that is often not appreciated. When you move away from the UK you realise how lucky you were. Take Ireland for instance the healthcare here unless you go private is close to third world. Its actually scary what I see friends and neighbours having to deal with.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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US Healthcare: Meet the New Boss . . . Same as the Old Boss

Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:13 am

US Healthcare: Meet the New Boss . . . Same as the Old Boss

Republicans hammered Democrats seven and a-half years ago for larding Obamacare with state-specific payoffs and sweeteners to secure the last few votes for passage. Who can forget the “Cornhusker Kickback,” which funneled $45 million to Nebraska to nail the support of former Sen. Ben Nelson?

But the revised Senate Obamacare repeal bill shows Republicans engaged in the same pattern of horse trading as they try to win 50 ayes to advance an unpopular bill.

Leaders are likely to cook up even more deals to entice uncommitted senators. As conservative health policy expert Chris Jacobs points out at The Federalist, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell still has about $200 billion that he can spend on holdouts without breaking Senate budget rules he's using to try to pass the legislation.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/07/14/5-b ... care-bill/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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WarRI1
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:51 am

I read as much as I could about the Snake Oil Salesman Pence asking the Governors to work together with the administration at the Governor's Conference. The right bill at the right time he said. Work together. what a laugh. What a bunch of bullshit. It turned my stomach to be honest. :crazy: :spin:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:09 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I read as much as I could about the Snake Oil Salesman Pence asking the Governors to work together with the administration at the Governor's Conference. The right bill at the right time he said. Work together. what a laugh. What a bunch of bullshit. It turned my stomach to be honest. :crazy: :spin:


Step 1: Repeal Obamacare

Step 2: Take as long as you need to figure out a healthcare plan that includes insurance and prescription drug cost controls. Healthcare costs are out of control. Where federal and state dollars are mandatory involved, then everyone along the chain games "the system", because THEY CAN. Any new healthcare plan should include seriously dealing with waste, fraud, and abuse. Seriously.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:23 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Step 1: Repeal Obamacare

Step 2: Take as long as you need to figure out a healthcare plan that includes insurance and prescription drug cost controls. Healthcare costs are out of control. Where federal and state dollars are mandatory involved, then everyone along the chain games "the system", because THEY CAN. Any new healthcare plan should include seriously dealing with waste, fraud, and abuse. Seriously.


#2 contains worthy goals.

Why can't the current ACA be amended when those items get figured out?

Why create the misery that will result from kicking millions off the health insurance rolls?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Tugger
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:46 am

BobPatterson wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Step 1: Repeal Obamacare

Step 2: Take as long as you need to figure out a healthcare plan that includes insurance and prescription drug cost controls. Healthcare costs are out of control. Where federal and state dollars are mandatory involved, then everyone along the chain games "the system", because THEY CAN. Any new healthcare plan should include seriously dealing with waste, fraud, and abuse. Seriously.


#2 contains worthy goals.

Why can't the current ACA be amended when those items get figured out?

Why create the misery that will result from kicking millions off the health insurance rolls?

Or they could just end Part D coverage plan and save around $1T (as in trillion) over ten years. Seems like a simpler thing to do.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:51 am

BobPatterson wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Step 1: Repeal Obamacare

Step 2: Take as long as you need to figure out a healthcare plan that includes insurance and prescription drug cost controls. Healthcare costs are out of control. Where federal and state dollars are mandatory involved, then everyone along the chain games "the system", because THEY CAN. Any new healthcare plan should include seriously dealing with waste, fraud, and abuse. Seriously.


#2 contains worthy goals.

Why can't the current ACA be amended when those items get figured out?

Why create the misery that will result from kicking millions off the health insurance rolls?


Probably because they don't care, Bob.

In the USA today, we have an average of 45,000 people dying per year due to lack of health coverage or not enough coverage, even with Obamacare. I cannot imagine the suffering if it is replaced with the proposed "Deathcare" plan.
 
apodino
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:31 am

I read the comments about the NHS, and I cant help but think about Charlie Gard, a little boy whos parents are fighting to keep him alive and bring him to the US for treatment, but at the same time the NHS and the Courts are saying his life support must be terminated. While a potential single payer system like the NHS I think could work in this country, cases like Charlie Gard are what really make me worry about such a system in this country.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:06 am

apodino wrote:
I read the comments about the NHS, and I cant help but think about Charlie Gard, a little boy whos parents are fighting to keep him alive and bring him to the US for treatment, but at the same time the NHS and the Courts are saying his life support must be terminated. While a potential single payer system like the NHS I think could work in this country, cases like Charlie Gard are what really make me worry about such a system in this country.


Charlie Gard's case is quite unique. Look at the other side of the medal. What are the incentives to continue pointless treatment which, according to the British doctors, will result in pain and harm to the child with no reasonable chance for improvement, let alone survive. Sure you want your child to survive, but at what cost?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:24 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Congrats! The UK health care system always pegged me as good, and I think I can agree with the relative positions.
I do however wonder about the distance between No. 1 and 11, I'd feel that the systems are fairly close to each other. The US has very good health care, their downside is access and, causing it, price. But frinds in the US have usually been well taken care of, only with a MUCH bigger invoice coming.

Best regards
Thomas


In the U.S. they do what's called a wallet autopsy, if you have good health insurance, then yes you get good care and a much bigger invoice like you wrote. However, there is something else going on that most people don't want to talk about.

if you don't have health insurance, they will do the bare minimum to get you out the door, they will say things like go home get insurance and come back. hospital are trying to run a business, they are being held accountable by share holders to do the bare minimum when someone has no insurance and no viable means to pay.

i will give you two personal examples of people i personally who died after being given a wallet autopsy at intake.

44 years old, with 3 children. went to the emergency room complaining of chest pains, wallet autopsy found he had no insurance and made 13.00 a hour part-time. . They told him without running any tests, that he was probably having a panic attack and sent him home. The next day he suffered a massive hearth attack and died.

The second victim, was young, just getting out a messy divorce, was planning on going back to school . Which meant she would of qualified to be on her mother's insurance after her divorce was final. However, at the time of the visit to the hospital she had no insurance.

. She went to the hospital complaining of pain in her swollen leg. she had a blood clot in her leg, but they didn't know that, even though she was showing all the signs. The wallet autopsy found out she had no insurance and no job. . They x-ray her leg to see if it was broke. it wasn't. They told her they wouldn't charge her anything if she would leave now. They told her to go home sign up for insurance and come back if the swelling didn't go down. Basically they pushed her out the door doing the bare minimum. She went home the blood clot burst a week later, she ended up
in a coma brain dead. The second hospital staff was furious at the hospital who had sent her home. The mother has decided to sue the first hospital.
 
apodino
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:57 pm

Dutchy wrote:
apodino wrote:
I read the comments about the NHS, and I cant help but think about Charlie Gard, a little boy whos parents are fighting to keep him alive and bring him to the US for treatment, but at the same time the NHS and the Courts are saying his life support must be terminated. While a potential single payer system like the NHS I think could work in this country, cases like Charlie Gard are what really make me worry about such a system in this country.


Charlie Gard's case is quite unique. Look at the other side of the medal. What are the incentives to continue pointless treatment which, according to the British doctors, will result in pain and harm to the child with no reasonable chance for improvement, let alone survive. Sure you want your child to survive, but at what cost?


Point taken, but in this case the parents wanted to bring him to the US for an experimental treatment at their own expense. The British taxpayers would not be on the hook for any of this. Yet decisions are being made by bureaucrats and judges. Decisions on Health should be between a patient and their doctor. Sadly whether its Government Bureaucracy or Insurance Red Tape, this is rarely true anymore. And it goes to show you regardless of who provides health care, whether it be private insurance or a single payer system, decisions seem to be made about the bottom line. No ones life should have a price on it.
 
wingman
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:37 pm

apodino wrote:
No ones life should have a price on it.

This is one of the fundamental issues on the "expense" side of the healthcare dilemma, at least in the US. Patients are kept alive even in the very worst of circumstances with literally zero chance of recovery, at the ages of 1, 101and every number in between. The cost of this is truly extravagant and a massive drain on hospital costs and personal wealth. It's one reason I'm glad to live in Oregon where people can decide their own fates the same way they do with their pets.

There are a lot of other ludicrous costs in our system as well, the most irksome to me being the 12 two page prescription drug ads I wade through in weekly magazines that less than 1/10 of 1% of Americans couldn't decipher if their lives depended on it, and in some cases they must. But end of life care is a massive problem and it demands better communication and choices that you rightly say should be left between doctors and patients. In this case sadly that's not an option and the parents' grief may be causing terrible suffering to their child in addition to the massive cost being borne by the NHS to keep him alive. It sounds to me like even this American doctor concurs that the situation is near hopeless. His magical elixir hasn't even been tested on animals yet from what I've read.

Anyway, it may sound horrible but lives really do carry a price and I wonder if presented with neutral facts how many able-minded patients would opt for treatment costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to remain alive for a limited period of time in a hospital bed.
 
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OA260
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:51 pm

apodino wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
apodino wrote:
I read the comments about the NHS, and I cant help but think about Charlie Gard, a little boy whos parents are fighting to keep him alive and bring him to the US for treatment, but at the same time the NHS and the Courts are saying his life support must be terminated. While a potential single payer system like the NHS I think could work in this country, cases like Charlie Gard are what really make me worry about such a system in this country.


Charlie Gard's case is quite unique. Look at the other side of the medal. What are the incentives to continue pointless treatment which, according to the British doctors, will result in pain and harm to the child with no reasonable chance for improvement, let alone survive. Sure you want your child to survive, but at what cost?


Point taken, but in this case the parents wanted to bring him to the US for an experimental treatment at their own expense. The British taxpayers would not be on the hook for any of this. Yet decisions are being made by bureaucrats and judges. Decisions on Health should be between a patient and their doctor. Sadly whether its Government Bureaucracy or Insurance Red Tape, this is rarely true anymore. And it goes to show you regardless of who provides health care, whether it be private insurance or a single payer system, decisions seem to be made about the bottom line. No ones life should have a price on it.


Very hard to make a judgement either way. The state has an obligation to protect the child and not allow that child to suffer. Experts have already made their views clear and only recently has that view been properly challenged by experts in the US with more information. There are suggestions that the child would not survive the flight so the state has to take into account all these circumstances. Personally if they can prove without doubt that he will not suffer or be in more pain by taking this trip across the Atlantic then I support it but if not then one really must be prepared to take tough decisions. Its not about money as you correctly say but the best interests of the child must come before the parents as hard as it might sound.
 
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Channex757
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:37 pm

apodino wrote:
Point taken, but in this case the parents wanted to bring him to the US for an experimental treatment at their own expense. The British taxpayers would not be on the hook for any of this. Yet decisions are being made by bureaucrats and judges. Decisions on Health should be between a patient and their doctor. Sadly whether its Government Bureaucracy or Insurance Red Tape, this is rarely true anymore. And it goes to show you regardless of who provides health care, whether it be private insurance or a single payer system, decisions seem to be made about the bottom line. No ones life should have a price on it.

Cost has nothing to do with it. The courts get involved when the child needs a strong legal advocate to stop parents like his (who just won't listen to anyone who is not saying what they want to hear, hence their storming out of court on Friday) trying to remove the kid and cause him further harm.

As long as that kid has hope, Great Ormond Street will treat him. All the other specialist kiddy hospitals such as brand-new Manchester Children's Hospital (another world-class facility) have refused to treat the kid as they can't offer anything to him. The doctors are saying that there isn't any way they can agree with his parents as all they can see is the child possibly being put through agony. He isn't a lab rat.

That's why this ended up in court. The kid needs protection from those who just won't accept the facts that he is effectively dead and ain't coming back. What more do you need to know? GOSH just want to move him to palliative care and be allowed the dignity of a painless death, not pumped full of drugs that haven't even been tested on monkeys or rats.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:59 am

Charlie Gard's case has very little to do with the UK having a state funded healthcare system and everything to do with the fact that here in the UK, if doctors and parents disagree with each other then the courts are the ones tasked with making a decision. I don't think it would matter if it was a private hospital. If the doctors and parents disagreed it would still go to the courts.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: NHS rated world's number one health system

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:01 am

apodino wrote:
I read the comments about the NHS, and I cant help but think about Charlie Gard, a little boy whos parents are fighting to keep him alive and bring him to the US for treatment, but at the same time the NHS and the Courts are saying his life support must be terminated. While a potential single payer system like the NHS I think could work in this country, cases like Charlie Gard are what really make me worry about such a system in this country.


Charlie Gard's going to die, his parents just can't see that, and won't accept facts, when they bring up the US reference case, that kid is a sausage short of being a vegetable, that's no life for the child or his carers.I would not put any of my children through this, what they are doing is cruel. It's also an exceptional case, the US and Italy with there experimental treatments should not have gotten involved.

It's nice to see Norwegian and NZ healthcare up right up there, it's nice seeing some worthy benefit from my tax dollars/noks.

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