Iloveboeing
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Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:40 am

https://youtu.be/nAowevJCazY

In the swearing in of Carrie Lam as the new Chief Executive of the Xianggang SAR of the PRC, she kept mispronouncing the name for China. Instead of saying "Zhonghua," (zh in Mandarin is a J, like jump), she said "Zonghua."

Maybe it's a southern Chinese thing but after spending 5 months in Xianggang and 3 months in Qingdao and Beijing, I'd have to say I prefer northern and standard Mandarin better. I've been told my pronunciation is with a northern accent.

Anyone else catch this?
 
BestWestern
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:01 am

You spent 9 months in China and criticise someone's language ability?
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:33 pm

BestWestern wrote:
You spent 9 months in China and criticise someone's language ability?


While I will not claim fluency in Mandarin (still working on it), I know enough of the pronunciation to determine when it is pronounced properly and when it is not. I took a class in Mandarin in Xianggang and was at the top of my class. Most of my fellow Westerners in my class were terrible at pronunciation and many didn't even try to pronounce the words properly. I have also been told that my Mandarin pronunciation is "very standard" and that I speak with a "northern accent." I consider that an accomplishment from someone who lived in Xianggang for 5 months, yet hung out with mostly mainland Chinese students. Most people in Xianggang have a southern accent.

While most Chinese people speak Mandarin, only a minority of them can speak unaccented, standard Mandarin and it's something many Chinese seek but fail due to their regional accents. An exception to this is Chinese President Xi Jinping. He is the first Chinese president to have been born and raised in Beijing and therefore speaks near perfect Mandarin. I like listening to him speak.

Anyway, I know that my Mandarin pronunciation is better than anyone I went to school with, but I've still got a lot to learn. Carrie Lam can speak Mandarin, but she speaks with a strong southern accent. That's all I was trying to say. It's interesting to hear Chinese people speak; that's why I love Mandarin!
 
Flighty
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:10 pm

A southern accent is not "wrong" in China any more than it is wrong in the US. Especially if she is a native speaker, of which there are 100s of millions in south China, Taiwan etc. I guess it boils down to whether she is a native speaker.

This question reminds me of the HK politicians who refused to do their pledge to China's dictators properly. They pronounced something wrong on purpose to upset the owners of the territory. Then the dictators got mad and wouldn't seat them in parliament.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:21 pm

Of all the things that are wrong with HK politics these days and its bleak future prospects, I assure you that Lam's putonghua accent is the least of anyone's worries...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:30 pm

I was wondering why this thread sounded so familiar....

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1357769&p=19409811#p19409811
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:50 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
I was wondering why this thread sounded so familiar....

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1357769&p=19409811#p19409811


I know I'm the OP of both threads; I am just in love with China and Mandarin. I think that Mandarin is the most beautiful language on the face of the earth and that it should be made a global lingua franca. Just because the British Empire and the USA have dominated most of the world through the past 200-300 years, it doesn't necessarily mean that English is the only world language. I think that Mandarin should be co-existing with English on the world stage.

I am just trying to share my passion and love for China. Mandarin is the language that comforts me when I'm alone, it stimulates my mind, and it's the language (besides English) that I can pronounce the best. The U.S. and U.K. have dominated world politics enough; it's China's turn and they should be allowed to continue to rise.

Sorry for the rant; just trying to explain myself. I have Asperger's Syndrome (a form of autism) and I have "special interests" and I can focus on a topic WAAAAAY beyond the attention span of a non-autistic person. My knowledge of China is extensive and I intend to learn Mandarin to fluency and beyond.

Besides, if people here on the non-aviation forum can bash Trump and Republicans day in and day out, I have the right to share my love for Mandarin and express my thoughts on current events in China.
 
Flighty
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:52 pm

There is no problem with you or the topic. Many of us on here fixate on silly things because that is how we cope with life. Plane fans, rail fans, baseball fans. Obsessives are the ones who make breakthroughs, and keep complicated systems running. Obsessed people are part of the village, and it takes a village. You are not alone.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:10 pm

I love Mandarin too. Much nicer and softer language in comparison to Cantonese.

Having worked in southern china for four years, I much prefer the southern accent. The Northern accent, especially beijinghua is very southwestern England for me - country farmer style.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:26 pm

BestWestern wrote:
I love Mandarin too. Much nicer and softer language in comparison to Cantonese.

Having worked in southern china for four years, I much prefer the southern accent. The Northern accent, especially beijinghua is very southwestern England for me - country farmer style.


Interesting. I've always heard that the northern Mandarin has been encouraged by the Chinese government as Standard Mandarin is based on the Beijing dialect.

I've been told that I speak with a northern accent which makes sense since my first Mandarin class was in Xianggang with a professor who was born in Taiwan but whose father was from Beijing. My second class was in the United States where my professor had studied at the Beijing Foreign Language Institute, so both of my Chinese professors had a connection to Beijing.

When I was in Xianggang (2005), most Xianggang students either could not or were unwilling to speak Mandarin with me. The mainland students were more than willing to converse in Putonghua.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:04 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
I am just trying to share my passion and love for China.


Iloveboeing wrote:
Besides, if people here on the non-aviation forum can bash Trump and Republicans day in and day out, I have the right to share my love for Mandarin and express my thoughts on current events in China.


I'm not saying you don't have a right to express your thoughts. I'm saying that picking on people's pronunciation of words (particularly those who aren't native speakers, as in the first thread) is maybe not the best way to "share your passion and love for China."
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:54 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
I am just trying to share my passion and love for China.


Iloveboeing wrote:
Besides, if people here on the non-aviation forum can bash Trump and Republicans day in and day out, I have the right to share my love for Mandarin and express my thoughts on current events in China.


I'm not saying you don't have a right to express your thoughts. I'm saying that picking on people's pronunciation of words (particularly those who aren't native speakers, as in the first thread) is maybe not the best way to "share your passion and love for China."


It may not be the best and I intend no harm towards anyone; it's just that I've noticed Westerners mispronounce Chinese names all the time and it annoys me. Maybe there's a better way to get the message across.

I just wish people could get the pronunciations of Beijing and Shanghai correctly; BAY-JING and SHAHNG-HAI. It's so simple! There is no French J in Beijing. Mandarin does not have the French J nor does it have the AYNG sound.

Ignorance is one thing; mispronouncing something when you know the correct pronunciation is disrespectful and insulting to the Chinese. They deserve respect.

When foreigners such as myself go to China and attempt to speak in Mandarin to locals, their faces immediately light up and they are instantly appreciative that I am attempting to speak their language. I don't want to be like most Americans who go overseas and demand people speak English. It's ridiculous.

Although I am a white American, the domination of English throughout the world is sickening. Mandarin should be doing what English is doing now.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:12 pm

I'm lucky that my mandarin pronunciation is considered excellent. The problem is that when I hop into a taxi, my vocabulary runs out after 45 seconds chatting with the taxi driver. At that stage, he thinks I'm fluent, and then I'm lost.

I've decided to restart my mandarin classes again.

HKers hate to speak Mandarin.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
bgm
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:10 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
I was wondering why this thread sounded so familiar....

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1357769&p=19409811#p19409811


Yep, the real intention is not about Carrie Lam's Mandarin, but (not so subtly) bragging about the OP's Mandarin abilities.

Circle Jerk, party of one! :duck:
"When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat." -George Carlin
 
wingman
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:15 am

BestWestern wrote:
I'm lucky that my mandarin pronunciation is considered excellent. The problem is that when I hop into a taxi, my vocabulary runs out after 45 seconds chatting with the taxi driver. At that stage, he thinks I'm fluent, and then I'm lost.


I understand your problem. I'm fluent in Castilian Spanish, something Mexicans can never stop laughing at, but one interesting thing about that guttural "from the throat" speech is that I can utter 10 words in Japanese or Korean (in full Samurai movie mode) and the locals think I know my shit. Same as you though, 10 seconds later I have to throw my hands up and admit I have no idea what anyone's talking about. Still works great with the locals here in the US though..counting to 10 in Japanese and they think I'm quoting Meiji era literature..ichi ni.........san, SHI..go roku ..shichi,hachi....kyu..JU!
 
Derico
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:09 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
Just because the British Empire and the USA have dominated most of the world through the past 200-300 years, it doesn't necessarily mean that English is the only world language. I think that Mandarin should be co-existing with English on the world stage.

I am just trying to share my passion and love for China. Mandarin is the language that comforts me when I'm alone, it stimulates my mind, and it's the language (besides English) that I can pronounce the best. The U.S. and U.K. have dominated world politics enough;


Don't worry too much about this part. The US - UK electorate are doing their best, and their political leaders are performing an admirable job, at bringing this stage of history to a speedy and swift conclusion. :scratchchin: :yes:
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
jetero
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:58 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
Besides, if people here on the non-aviation forum can bash Trump and Republicans day in and day out


You should join in--it's a lot of fun!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:12 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
it's just that I've noticed Westerners mispronounce Chinese names all the time and it annoys me. Maybe there's a better way to get the message across.

I just wish people could get the pronunciations of Beijing and Shanghai correctly; BAY-JING and SHAHNG-HAI. It's so simple! There is no French J in Beijing. Mandarin does not have the French J nor does it have the AYNG sound.

Ignorance is one thing; mispronouncing something when you know the correct pronunciation is disrespectful and insulting to the Chinese. They deserve respect.

Are you for real? How do you pronounce Paris at home? Or The capitals of Russia or Italy?

Iloveboeing wrote:
Although I am a white American, the domination of English throughout the world is sickening. Mandarin should be doing what English is doing now.


Good luck with that one!
:biggrin:
 
GGtai
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:08 am

Iloveboeing, do not go to Taiwan. You will not be able to handle the Tribal / Taiwanese/ Hakka/ Mandarin mix. GRIN

Carrie Lam is a Cantonese speaker. Cantonese pronunciation always affects ones Mandarin pronunciation.

Romanization (IE. Yale) is good for learning Cantonese but not Mandarin. English letters have too many different ways to pronounce them. And a westerner's Mandarin Chinese pronunciation will always be a little bit odd. GRIN

English is the business language of the world right now and perhaps will be for some time in the future. Chinese with the 4 tones is just too hard for everyone to learn (Cantonese and Hakka have even more).

Jia Yo Jia Yo!!!
 
GGtai
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:29 am

加油! 加油 !
 
tommy1808
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:48 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
It's interesting to hear Chinese people speak; that's why I love Mandarin!


Loving mandarin and learning it where they use simplified writing is somewhat of a contradiction....

Best regards
Thomas
Crooked Donald Trump an his team are extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. Not fit! #muchworsethanclinton
 
Flighty
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:08 pm

AFAIK standard Mandarin spoken is certainly not Taiwan, it is north China, but not the regionalist north, the big cities. Zhang ziyi I remember is pretty close to standard. Just a foreign tourist's opinion. Rural north China has a crazy accent, but not big city girls like her.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:20 pm

Flighty wrote:
close to standard. .


which standard?

best regards
Thomas
Crooked Donald Trump an his team are extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. Not fit! #muchworsethanclinton
 
jbflyguy84
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:45 pm

Give me Cantonese over Mandarin anytime... there aren't enough tones in Mandarin to sound at all pleasant to the ear (even if I know no words of either)
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:31 pm

GGtai wrote:
Iloveboeing, do not go to Taiwan. You will not be able to handle the Tribal / Taiwanese/ Hakka/ Mandarin mix. GRIN

Carrie Lam is a Cantonese speaker. Cantonese pronunciation always affects ones Mandarin pronunciation.

Romanization (IE. Yale) is good for learning Cantonese but not Mandarin. English letters have too many different ways to pronounce them. And a westerner's Mandarin Chinese pronunciation will always be a little bit odd. GRIN

English is the business language of the world right now and perhaps will be for some time in the future. Chinese with the 4 tones is just too hard for everyone to learn (Cantonese and Hakka have even more).

Jia Yo Jia Yo!!!


Mandarin is the official language of China, the largest country in the world by population. That includes mainland China, Xianggang, Aomen and Taiwan. I use Hanyu Pinyin to help me learn Simplified Characters. Simplified Characters and Hanyu Pinyin were introduced during the 1950s under Chairman Mao Zedong in order to make Mandarin simpler to learn for both Chinese and Westerners. I can't imagine learning Traditional Characters. When I was in Xianggang, I learned Simplified Characters in school and not the dated Traditional Characters Cantonese speakers use in Xianggang.

It's time that China moves into the future and everyone should speak standard Mandarin and use Simplified Characters. I love listening to the Beijing News Radio; the Mandarin is so beautiful!
I'm not fluent in Mandarin and I've still got a lot to learn, but I love the language and would love to go back to China one day.

I just wish we could get rid of Tongyong Pinyin. The Taiwan leader's name should be Cai Yingwen; NOT Tsai Ing-wen. I know it's pronounced the same however it needs to be done using Hanyu Pinyin; it's easier for everybody. I don't like seeing Taipei (should be Taibei) or Kaohsiung (should be Gaoxiong). One day Taiwan will reunite with the motherland and Hanyu Pinyin will become standard. I'm also tired of hearing "Hong Kong," which should be Xianggang or Macau which should be Aomen.

I agree with the Chinese government's push to promote Mandarin throughout the country. Despite what was said, Mandarin can be the business language of the world; the 4 tones + neutral are simpler than Cantonese and the sounds are easier also. English is so imperialistic and I think that in exchange for Chinese students being taught English, our students should be learning Mandarin. It's not a one way street.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:09 pm

Let me summarize:

You:
1.) have spent 8 months in China.
2.) are not fluent in any Chinese dialect/language.
3.) do not wish to learn Traditional Chinese characters.

Yet you:
1.) Think certain forms of Chinese shouldn't be used by anyone.
2.) Criticize people's pronunciation of Chinese words who may be from different regions of China, or from other countries.
3.) Criticize people's spelling of their own names because they are the "wrong" type of Pinyin.
4.) Think Mandarin should be the standard business language of the world, for no particularly good reason other than you like it.

Look, we're all obsessive about one thing or another, but you don't need to criticize or demean people who feel or act differently. Just like I don't criticize people for using Nikon cameras, or writing pop music.

(unless you're just a mouthpiece for the Chinese government, in which case, go ahead, I guess)
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:33 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
Let me summarize:

You:
1.) have spent 8 months in China.
2.) are not fluent in any Chinese dialect/language.
3.) do not wish to learn Traditional Chinese characters.

Yet you:
1.) Think certain forms of Chinese shouldn't be used by anyone.
2.) Criticize people's pronunciation of Chinese words who may be from different regions of China, or from other countries.
3.) Criticize people's spelling of their own names because they are the "wrong" type of Pinyin.
4.) Think Mandarin should be the standard business language of the world, for no particularly good reason other than you like it.

Look, we're all obsessive about one thing or another, but you don't need to criticize or demean people who feel or act differently. Just like I don't criticize people for using Nikon cameras, or writing pop music.

(unless you're just a mouthpiece for the Chinese government, in which case, go ahead, I guess)


Yet, I witness a.netters continually and consistently "criticize and demean people who act or feel differently," which, in this case would be President Donald Trump and/or anyone in the Republican Party. Some of the criticism may be justified, but it is constant. A lot of the criticism is offensive to a lifelong Republican such as myself, but I don't say anything. However, although I voted for Trump, I regret doing so. I was just making a point about my thoughts on China and I was not intending to be demeaning. If a.netters can criticize Trump and the GOP with such passion, I can express my thoughts about non-Mandarin, Traditional Character-using Chinese people.

Yes, I know that I've only spent 8 months in China and I'm not yet fluent in Mandarin, but Mandarin is a passion that dominates my heart. I listen to the Beijing News Radio most of my time, when I'm driving and when work is slow. I am determined not to be a monolingual American, as is the case with the majority of my country.

Mandarin should be the world language, not just because I like it, but because of China's rise and its influence on global commerce. Chinese people are overjoyed when foreigners attempt to speak Mandarin to them because it shows you care about them and their culture. People do not need to get overwhelmed by characters; that's what Hanyu Pinyin is for; it really helps to pronounce Mandarin and to read the characters. The Chinese government has done everything they can to help Westerners learn Mandarin easier.

I think Mandarin is the most beautiful language in the world and that we should look to Beijing as our example. President Xi Jinping's Mandarin is excellent because he was born and raised in Beijing and his Mandarin is flawless. I love listening to him speak!

I've still got much to learn, however I am getting better everyday. I want Mandarin to be the global lingua franca as much as a.netters want Trump and the GOP forever out of power (unless the GOP moves left to keep up with the socialist Democrats). I have been moving left myself and I admire the Chinese government and political system. Mandarin will be spoken by all one day, mark my words.
 
GGtai
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:33 am

It would seem from a quick look back at history, until China becomes a missionary sending country, Mandarin most likely will not be a world business language.

Simplified and traditional Chinese about the same in difficulty to read and write. IE. If you learned simplified that is what you will use. There several good computer programs out there that will help you learn both systems (Twinbridge, NJ Star, etc.). Hong Kong,( btw that is an okay way for Cantonese spelling) is not the only area in Asia using "traditional".

If you want spend some time with a Chinese character system try using a "written as pronounced" Cantonese Bible or book. Pure Cantonese is not a written language. Have fun.

Hakka and Taiwanese have their own romanization systems and are also not written dialects of Chinese. The Hakka and Taiwanese tone marks are confusing to anyone with Hong Kong Yale romanization background. Taiwan Jyuhim system will help for mandarin and sharpen your pronunciation.

There are some good USA Chinese language schools, but many are not so good. Language exchange is a really good way to get better and is cheap. Check out some Chinese ministries in your area. Remember, that you have to respect your teacher, frist, then accept respect from him!

Have fun with your language learning! The faster you make your million mistakes the better you will get. SNICKER You will need a thick skin. GRIN LOL
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:24 am

vikkyvik wrote:
Let me summarize:

You:
1.) have spent 8 months in China.
2.) are not fluent in any Chinese dialect/language.
3.) do not wish to learn Traditional Chinese characters.

Yet you:
1.) Think certain forms of Chinese shouldn't be used by anyone.
2.) Criticize people's pronunciation of Chinese words who may be from different regions of China, or from other countries.
3.) Criticize people's spelling of their own names because they are the "wrong" type of Pinyin.
4.) Think Mandarin should be the standard business language of the world, for no particularly good reason other than you like it.

Look, we're all obsessive about one thing or another, but you don't need to criticize or demean people who feel or act differently. Just like I don't criticize people for using Nikon cameras, or writing pop music.

(unless you're just a mouthpiece for the Chinese government, in which case, go ahead, I guess)

This is the most bizarre thread; It's brimming with hubris and arrogance, with the odd sprinklings of ignorance and rudeness for good measure. On the plus side, it's quite entertaining . . .

Iloveboeing wrote:
I've still got much to learn

So true, my friend, so very true . . .
 
Flighty
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:49 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
close to standard. .


which standard?

best regards
Thomas


Good point. China likely has multiple widespread and "standardized" official accents. Beijing urban accent is I believe the country's standard accent, with southern accent either constituting an different "standard," or merely a "regional" accent. But it is a big region with 500 million people or something. So it is reasonable to break out a few "standards" there.

And it is the same in the US. Big city people and elite media kind of converge on one accent, but we have multiple regions (like say Texas) with good, authentic accents that are standards of their own. So I agree that people in Texas should not necessarily try to copy Lester Holt's accent on CNN. Almost every state in the USA has a definable "classic" accent. Provinces in China are no doubt similar. But the national media does converge strongly on one accent.
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:48 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
This is the most bizarre thread; It's brimming with hubris and arrogance, with the odd sprinklings of ignorance and rudeness for good measure. On the plus side, it's quite entertaining .


I could say the same thing about a.netters and their anti-Trump / anti-GOP tirade and it is accepted. I am for Chinese unity and linguistic harmonization under Mandarin. The anti-Trump and anti-GOP people are relentless in their attacks and no one says anything, yet when I express my thoughts about Mandarin, I am mocked, ridiculed and criticized. Don't I have the same rights as the leftists?
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:46 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
I could say the same thing about a.netters and their anti-Trump / anti-GOP tirade and it is accepted. I am for Chinese unity and linguistic harmonization under Mandarin. The anti-Trump and anti-GOP people are relentless in their attacks and no one says anything, yet when I express my thoughts about Mandarin, I am mocked, ridiculed and criticized. Don't I have the same rights as the leftists?

I have followed some of the Trump threads and what you're saying is just not true. There are more anti-Trump than pro-Trump posters for sure, but the GOP/Trump supporters are well-albe to fight their corner.

I have no doubt you are sincere in your beliefs -- even if some of them are far fetched -- and you're probably a decent guy, but you put down others whose pronounciation you do not like, whether they be Chinese or American. Can you not see that people will see this as insulting and pick you up on it? Why should any non-Chinese pronounce Mandarin perfectly? No matter what country you go to, the locals will always appreciate you making a stab at their language, and they certainly won't be insulted if you cannot pronounce words properly. Would you expect a Chinese person to speak perfect English in the USA or England, and would it matter if they couldn't?
 
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RoySFlying
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:23 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
Don't I have the same rights as the leftists?

These days I have no idea what "left" and "right" mean in a political sense. But of course you do have a right to express an opinion, just as others have a right to comment.

I can understand your enthusiasm for what is to you a new language. I can understand that you appreciate the purity of it. However, the idea that other speakers in a country, let alone internationally, will share that view is unrealistic. If we look at countries like France and Germany, which have committees established to determine proper terms, spellings and grammar, we see that the actual speakers continue to do their own thing. Even with English, there are so many variants. Just about nobody speaks "the Queen's English", and that's just in England. It's sometimes said that foreigners speak better English than the English do.

I don't no why you should be opposed to English being an international language. Given world history it is unsurprising. But English isn't the only "official" language used in international relations. For example, UN documents are not published until they are available in all six official languages, including Mandarin. Perhaps in time the importance of Mandarin will grow. If it does, you can be almost be guaranteed that people will still have their own ways of speaking it. The only fixed languages are those written on objects displayed in museums and no one speaks them any more.
When I was a boy the world was flat and now, some people still strive to keep it that way.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:50 am

Chinese will never become the global language, simply because of the script. Learning a language without an ability to read it makes it so much more difficult for the other 80% of the population.

Mandarin is a lovely language, but oh so difficult to learn through osmosis because I can't read it. As for traditional script here in HK.... headache inducing.
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vikkyvik
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:35 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
Besides, if people here on the non-aviation forum can bash Trump and Republicans day in and day out

Iloveboeing wrote:
Yet, I witness a.netters continually and consistently "criticize and demean people who act or feel differently," which, in this case would be President Donald Trump and/or anyone in the Republican Party. Some of the criticism may be justified, but it is constant. A lot of the criticism is offensive to a lifelong Republican such as myself, but I don't say anything. However, although I voted for Trump, I regret doing so. I was just making a point about my thoughts on China and I was not intending to be demeaning. If a.netters can criticize Trump and the GOP with such passion, I can express my thoughts about non-Mandarin, Traditional Character-using Chinese people.

Iloveboeing wrote:
I want Mandarin to be the global lingua franca as much as a.netters want Trump and the GOP forever out of power (unless the GOP moves left to keep up with the socialist Democrats).

Iloveboeing wrote:
I could say the same thing about a.netters and their anti-Trump / anti-GOP tirade and it is accepted. I am for Chinese unity and linguistic harmonization under Mandarin. The anti-Trump and anti-GOP people are relentless in their attacks and no one says anything, yet when I express my thoughts about Mandarin, I am mocked, ridiculed and criticized. Don't I have the same rights as the leftists?


The whole Trump thing seems to bother you. You have the same rights as anyone to go into any of those Trump threads and comment on how ridiculous they are.

I have posted in a few Trump threads about how ridiculous they all are, but that was probably ~200 threads ago.

RoySFlying wrote:
Perhaps in time the importance of Mandarin will grow. If it does, you can be almost be guaranteed that people will still have their own ways of speaking it.


Indeed. If Mandarin becomes a global language on par with English, then it will absolutely be spoken quite differently in various areas of the world. Just like English today. Not sure how the OP would handle that.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
jetero
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Re: Carrie Lam's Mandarin

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:39 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
Yet, I witness a.netters continually and consistently "criticize and demean people who act or feel differently," which, in this case would be President Donald Trump and/or anyone in the Republican Party. Some of the criticism may be justified, but it is constant. A lot of the criticism is offensive to a lifelong Republican such as myself, but I don't say anything. However, although I voted for Trump, I regret doing so. I was just making a point about my thoughts on China and I was not intending to be demeaning. If a.netters can criticize Trump and the GOP with such passion, I can express my thoughts about non-Mandarin, Traditional Character-using Chinese people.

Yes, I know that I've only spent 8 months in China and I'm not yet fluent in Mandarin, but Mandarin is a passion that dominates my heart. I listen to the Beijing News Radio most of my time, when I'm driving and when work is slow. I am determined not to be a monolingual American, as is the case with the majority of my country.

Mandarin should be the world language, not just because I like it, but because of China's rise and its influence on global commerce. Chinese people are overjoyed when foreigners attempt to speak Mandarin to them because it shows you care about them and their culture. People do not need to get overwhelmed by characters; that's what Hanyu Pinyin is for; it really helps to pronounce Mandarin and to read the characters. The Chinese government has done everything they can to help Westerners learn Mandarin easier.

I think Mandarin is the most beautiful language in the world and that we should look to Beijing as our example. President Xi Jinping's Mandarin is excellent because he was born and raised in Beijing and his Mandarin is flawless. I love listening to him speak!

I've still got much to learn, however I am getting better everyday. I want Mandarin to be the global lingua franca as much as a.netters want Trump and the GOP forever out of power (unless the GOP moves left to keep up with the socialist Democrats). I have been moving left myself and I admire the Chinese government and political system. Mandarin will be spoken by all one day, mark my words.


What in the hell does Trump have to do with the price of tea in China?

Why are Republicans such whiny, put-upon victims? "If they criticize Trump, I should be able to do whatever I want to."

You guys really have tit-for-tat baked into your genetic code.

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