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tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:35 pm

par13del wrote:
So the UK can determine what its financial commitment will be but cannot determine what its position will be on legal protection of EU citizens in the UK or what rights and benefits they can receive, what am I missing?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40662740


One is a matter of principle (e.g. common market is an all or nothing deal), the other is in deed a matter of negotiations. If the UK forfeits EU financed, full or in part, projects in the UK and therefore releases other EU members from their commitments, that would lower the bill and so on and so forth..

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:19 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
One is a matter of principle (e.g. common market is an all or nothing deal), the other is in deed a matter of negotiations. If the UK forfeits EU financed, full or in part, projects in the UK and therefore releases other EU members from their commitments, that would lower the bill and so on and so forth..

best regards
Thomas

Have not seen that, all I have seen is the EU stating the Brexit divorce bill is north of 60 billion or higher and that it must be agreed before any substantial trade
negotiations can take place, hence my confusion where they are now saying the UK has to determine the extent of their commitment.
Why would the UK divorce bill include EU payments to fund projects in the UK, or did the EU simply include all existing funding in their bill to determine the amount? Which is also confusing since the UK would know exactly what the EU is presently funding in the UK, maybe that is where the UK is getting
their lower figure.

Hopefully one side will provide more details so that person can have more informed opinions on the scope and scale of the proposed bill.
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:20 pm

Duplicate delete
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:34 pm

par13del wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
One is a matter of principle (e.g. common market is an all or nothing deal), the other is in deed a matter of negotiations. If the UK forfeits EU financed, full or in part, projects in the UK and therefore releases other EU members from their commitments, that would lower the bill and so on and so forth..

best regards
Thomas

Have not seen that, all I have seen is the EU stating the Brexit divorce bill is north of 60 billion or higher and that it must be agreed before any substantial trade
negotiations can take place, hence my confusion where they are now saying the UK has to determine the extent of their commitment.


so? There are different point in it:
a) the EU sees no way to get the divorce bill below 60 billion, no matter what the UK is willing to give up in return, why dance around that subject
b) It still makes no sense to talk about anything else before the invoice can be send.

Why would the UK divorce bill include EU payments to fund projects in the UK, or did the EU simply include all existing funding in their bill to determine the amount?


If the EU has made commitments in the past to invest lets say a billion in an EU project in the UK, and the UK passing on that project, it can of course lower the bill, since the EU just saved a billion form its budget.
They probably included all commitments the UK has made in the sense of "10 Billion project? We like it, we are in with our usual percentage...:"

Which is also confusing since the UK would know exactly what the EU is presently funding in the UK, maybe that is where the UK is getting their lower figure.


The UK government currently brings a notebook to meetings with the EU, the EU brings folders full of paperwork. It is sensible to assume that the UK has no clue regarding regarding its commitments as of yet, or they would have had folders full of paper....

Hopefully one side will provide more details so that person can have more informed opinions on the scope and scale of the proposed bill.


It will be public in due time...

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
LJ
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:53 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
the EU sees no way to get the divorce bill below 60 billion, no matter what the UK is willing to give up in return, why dance around that subject


It will be below the EUR60bln, the question is how much (my prediction is very much). The EU never committed to an actual figure, it committed to the way it's calculated. The rest is trying to influence the negociations.

tommy1808 wrote:
b) It still makes no sense to talk about anything else before the invoice can be send.


Yet the EU will when the UK agrees to pay and the formula which calculates the bill. The actual bill will be send later.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:01 am

LJ wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
the EU sees no way to get the divorce bill below 60 billion, no matter what the UK is willing to give up in return, why dance around that subject


It will be below the EUR60bln, the question is how much (my prediction is very much). The EU never committed to an actual figure, it committed to the way it's calculated. The rest is trying to influence the negociations.


Which makes sense, because that way it boils down to accountant work.

Yet the EU will when the UK agrees to pay and the formula which calculates the bill. The actual bill will be send later.


We, i agree with the EU that the UK is trustworthy enough for that....

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
Arion640
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:07 pm

I think sadly we may have to pay the bill just to get the best terms of trades with the EU.

At least the dutch won't be able to nick all our fish from now on.
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LJ
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:30 pm

Arion640 wrote:
At least the dutch won't be able to nick all our fish from now on.


Guess again. The Dutch fishermen are already lobbying extensively to ensure they can fish in UK waters (though losing the 12mile zone is something they can live with). If the UK gets the control over its waters, be assured that the EU want something in return of equal (or more) value. Other possibilities explored are taking over British boats and thus continue the business under an UK flag. As such I wonder if UK fishermen will really benefit as much as they now think.
 
Arion640
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:51 pm

LJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
At least the dutch won't be able to nick all our fish from now on.


Guess again. The Dutch fishermen are already lobbying extensively to ensure they can fish in UK waters (though losing the 12mile zone is something they can live with). If the UK gets the control over its waters, be assured that the EU want something in return of equal (or more) value. Other possibilities explored are taking over British boats and thus continue the business under an UK flag. As such I wonder if UK fishermen will really benefit as much as they now think.


I'm sorry but when we are out there's no way the EU can be allowed to dictate anything about this now. You make it sound like the EU is entitled to British waters.
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:36 pm

Arion640 wrote:
I'm sorry but when we are out there's no way the EU can be allowed to dictate anything about this now. You make it sound like the EU is entitled to British waters.

Now you understand why paying attention to the negotiations is so important, you cannot simply wait for when the full treaty is placed in front of parliament for a vote, which may be just before the end of the two year negotiation period. The Leavers and Remainers would like that time line, for the Leavers it means a hard deadline which they believe will push the vote forward, for the Remainers it will make the push for an extension or lengthy transition period during which the minds of the people may change.
In any event, the issue is what is the UK willing to give up for all the "benefits" the Remainers and their allies are stating are required to avoid an economic collapse.
 
LJ
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:46 pm

Arion640 wrote:
LJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
At least the dutch won't be able to nick all our fish from now on.


Guess again. The Dutch fishermen are already lobbying extensively to ensure they can fish in UK waters (though losing the 12mile zone is something they can live with). If the UK gets the control over its waters, be assured that the EU want something in return of equal (or more) value. Other possibilities explored are taking over British boats and thus continue the business under an UK flag. As such I wonder if UK fishermen will really benefit as much as they now think.


I'm sorry but when we are out there's no way the EU can be allowed to dictate anything about this now. You make it sound like the EU is entitled to British waters.


It all depends on the outcome of the negociations. Only in case of a "no deal" the EU won't have anything to say over the UK waters. Anything else will involve a deal which takes into account the interests of the EU fishermen (a powerful group whether one likes it or not) and UK fishermen (how much power do they have?)..
 
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Aesma
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:59 pm

The negotiation will be simple really : how big a tax on UK fish do you want ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Arion640
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:03 pm

Aesma wrote:
The negotiation will be simple really : how big a tax on UK fish do you want ?


How about the loss of one million EU manufacturing jobs dependant on UK trade.

We produce bugger all fish anyway, because it gets taken by trawlers from the continent. On one hand we are getting shafted by the common fisheries policy in our waters with fish caught heading to other countries. On another hand we're going to get taxed like fun on British fish exports so just shows the bullying agenda of the EU.

So actually, I'd rather go for the getting taxed option. I don't care about exporting fish, it isn't a big export and we'll have enough enough domestic demand for fishermen/women to make a living.
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Aesma
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:25 pm

Arion640 : I have no problem with that option. What UK fishermen were saying during the Brexit campaign was very different, and unacceptable in my opinion : they wanted to fish unabashed, not caring about quotas made to protect the stocks.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
JJJ
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:06 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The negotiation will be simple really : how big a tax on UK fish do you want ?


How about the loss of one million EU manufacturing jobs dependant on UK trade.

We produce bugger all fish anyway, because it gets taken by trawlers from the continent.


You may want to reconsider that statement.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-pinching-our-fish/

The UK has the second largest allowed catch on the whole EU, so sure they get something. And keep in mind that the whole "gets taken by foreign trawlers" cuts both ways because British trawlers do fish in other EU member waters, too (as well as in countries off Africa and Asia thanks to EU-negotiated deals).
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:57 am

Arion640 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The negotiation will be simple really : how big a tax on UK fish do you want ?


How about the loss of one million EU manufacturing jobs dependant on UK trade.


That is what? 0.4% of the labor force?

We produce bugger all fish anyway, because it gets taken by trawlers from the continent.


and in a free market economy, what exactly is the explanation for that? I give you a little hint, it has something to do with some player being more competitive than others... oh, also that makes "your" fish cheaper for you to buy...

On one hand we are getting shafted by the common fisheries policy in our waters with fish caught heading to other countries. .


ah.. the now classic UK Dualism. "We want access to your markets, but also we want you to stay away from ours" ......

Who do you think is going to buy your fish with your own fishing industry being unable to turn a profit at market prices?

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
olle
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:07 am

Now we soon reaching holiday periods in Europe. I suppose that the negotiation will halt until September. Is this correct?

If yes what has been achieved? As I understand it major part of the negotiations much be concluded pretty soon in order to make the EU parliament accept to open free trade negotiation.

Regarding fish ;-) (Fish has a special position here at A.net!) Is it true that major part of fish from UK is sold on the continent or EU27?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:16 am

There were some vague proposals by the British government, but so far noting detailed.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:23 am

olle wrote:
Now we soon reaching holiday periods in Europe. I suppose that the negotiation will halt until September. Is this correct?

If yes what has been achieved? As I understand it major part of the negotiations much be concluded pretty soon in order to make the EU parliament accept to open free trade negotiation.

Regarding fish ;-) (Fish has a special position here at A.net!) Is it true that major part of fish from UK is sold on the continent or EU27?


Hopefully not, lots of time has been wasted by the UK elections, so I hope they will move on during the holiday season. The parties have been together for two sessions, of which one was procedural.

As for fish, as I understand it yes, many fish is sold within the EU, as is EU27 fish in the UK.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:21 am

The negotiation turn has finished since last week or the week before, yes.

Next one is at the end of August I think.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:41 am

olle wrote:
Now we soon reaching holiday periods in Europe. I suppose that the negotiation will halt until September. Is this correct?

I would think so since it is the UK who is leaving, one cannot expect the EU to come to a standstill to accommodate and change its entire vacation schedule.

On the negotiations, are we just focusing on the major players or also their "underlings"? While the heads are meeting, what are the other 90+ individuals doing, just along for the trip sight seeing, I would assume that their role is to sweat the details where possible, if they are doing nothing why are they there?
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:08 pm

Ref to the fishing....

What is it the EU keep telling the U.K.

Sorry guys, you can't cherry pick the bits of the UK's EU membership you like!

who cares about Dutch fisherman......
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:23 pm

Dano1977 wrote:
who cares about Dutch fisherman......


The Dutch equivalent of whoever cares about British fisherman...

Time to ban freedom of movement for fish!
 
Varsity1
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:41 pm

The EU is a dead man walking. This is a repeat of the United States in 1860.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:58 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
The EU is a dead man walking. This is a repeat of the United States in 1860.


Thank you for your well thought out thoughts and great analysis and the best parallel ever. We are in the present of greatness.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:16 am

Irish want sea border with UK after Brexit
Theresa May is facing a new setback in Brexit negotiations after the government in Dublin said that her proposal for the Irish border was unworkable.

Leo Varadkar, the Republic of Ireland’s prime minister, is pushing for the Irish Sea to become the post-Brexit border with the UK after warning Mrs May that her plan was doomed and would jeopardise the peace process.

British officials were said to be taken aback by Dublin’s change in tone, expressed at a European Union summit in Brussels last week. The DUP said this morning that it would be strongly opposed to the “absurd and unconstitutional” proposals.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -lvb6n35fq

So no resolved issues yet.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:33 am

Varsity1 wrote:
The EU is a dead man walking. This is a repeat of the United States in 1860.


Yeah.. i also wish that the USA was still around....

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
blrsea
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:47 am

Looks like UK is willing to offer up to 40billion Euro for the divorce bill as against demand of 60billion from EU. However, this is conditional on a trade agreement being finalized.

UK ready to pay £36bn Brexit bill, but only if EU talks trade

However, the UK will only agree to pay the sum - equivalent to €40 billion - it if the EU agrees to negotiate the financial settlement as part of a deal on future relations, including a trade deal.


UK ready to pay 40 billion euro Brexit divorce bill: Report

LONDON: Britain is open to paying up to 40 billion euros ($47.1 billion) towards a so-called Brexit divorce bill to the European Union as long as a future UK-EU trade deal can be secured, a media report said on Sunday
...
"We know their position is 60 billion euros, but actual bottom line is 50 billion euros. Ours is closer to 30 billion euros, but the landing zone is 40 billion euros, even if the public and politicians are not all there yet," the official added.
...
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:17 am

blrsea wrote:
Looks like UK is willing to offer up to 40billion Euro for the divorce bill as against demand of 60billion from EU. However, this is conditional on a trade agreement being finalized.


they don´t get the concept of "obligations first" i presume.

they do know how to make negotiations long and drawn out though, by having two moving goal posts...

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:00 pm

In my opinion they would be better off spending that money preparing the country for WTO rules versus giving sure money to the EU when there is no certainty that they will get that past parliament and the EU would already list it as a certainty with no sure way of having all members agree in any timely fashion.
Money has to be spent on securing the borders such as updating facilities, hiring and training staff, those have to be done in any event as it does not appear as if the country will take a Norway style model.
Where I fault the May government is they are putting the country specific items which they have to do on hold pending EU negotiations as if the EU is somehow going to take care of them, are they even designing new government forms, license decals, UK versions of EU documents - stands to reason the EU will not provide for free and when they change....- etc etc etc, there are many things an independent country has to do which for some has to duplicate what the EU does, its what independence is all about.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:30 pm

par13del wrote:
In my opinion they would be better off spending that money preparing the country for WTO rules

The UK is already a WTO member; it's just dually represented through the EU as well. Since both entities are WTO members, there's no need to prepare for WTO rules.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:50 pm

par13del wrote:
In my opinion they would be better off spending that money preparing the country for WTO rules versus giving sure money to the EU when there is no certainty that they will get that past parliament and the EU would already list it as a certainty with no sure way of having all members agree in any timely fashion.
Money has to be spent on securing the borders such as updating facilities, hiring and training staff, those have to be done in any event as it does not appear as if the country will take a Norway style model.
Where I fault the May government is they are putting the country specific items which they have to do on hold pending EU negotiations as if the EU is somehow going to take care of them, are they even designing new government forms, license decals, UK versions of EU documents - stands to reason the EU will not provide for free and when they change....- etc etc etc, there are many things an independent country has to do which for some has to duplicate what the EU does, its what independence is all about.


Sure, UK needs to prepare itself. But also they need to pay their bill what has already been agreed to. And to pay for pension plans of UK nationals and so on.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:22 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
The UK is already a WTO member; it's just dually represented through the EU as well. Since both entities are WTO members, there's no need to prepare for WTO rules.

Key point being through the EU, now they are going to have to do it all themselves, have you seen any talk about such preparation, that's the issue I feel is being sidelined while they talk t the EU, it's like they cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:26 pm

par13del wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
The UK is already a WTO member; it's just dually represented through the EU as well. Since both entities are WTO members, there's no need to prepare for WTO rules.

Key point being through the EU, now they are going to have to do it all themselves


How will that be different? The EU already does all the trade negotiations, without the UK that is not becoming more work, rather less since a compromise has to cover fewer countries.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Sure, UK needs to prepare itself. But also they need to pay their bill what has already been agreed to. And to pay for pension plans of UK nationals and so on.

The bill they agreed to pay was as a member of the EU, now that they are leaving are you suggesting the bill is the same?
How much investment will the EU continue to make in the UK, how much subsidies will UK industry continue to receive, funds for such activity is obtained from the EU budget which the UK contributes to, once they leave those contributions will cease as well as all of the benefits that a EU member receives, so if no member no benefit how can you say that they already agreed to pay X amount and leaving makes no difference?
At the date of leaving all funds that the EU sends to the UK in any form will cease, generating a savings which can be reallocated elsewhere, as for Pensions I would assume both sides will function as disbursement centers, the EU will dispense UK pension amount to UK citizens in their jurisdiction and the UK would do the same, that is of course if the UK is still allowed to conduct any such financial activity for the EU.
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:35 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
How will that be different? The EU already does all the trade negotiations, without the UK that is not becoming more work, rather less since a compromise has to cover fewer countries.

Best regards
Thomas

The thread is about the UK, the EU is not disbanding, whatever they were doing before article 50 they will continue to do, the UK on the other hand now has to start preparation to conduct all their trade activities, customs and border controls by themselves, that is what is different.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:44 pm

par13del wrote:
the UK on the other hand now has to start preparation to conduct all their trade activities, customs and border controls by themselves, that is what is different.


Well, I presume that was an informed decision on the side of the UK.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:55 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Looks like UK is willing to offer up to 40billion Euro for the divorce bill as against demand of 60billion from EU. However, this is conditional on a trade agreement being finalized.


they don´t get the concept of "obligations first" i presume.

they do know how to make negotiations long and drawn out though, by having two moving goal posts...

best regards
Thomas


So you would prefer we just walk away and pay nothing?

Of course there are “competing interpretations”.on what is owed. This could be a negotiation opening move. When I make a major purchase I never pay full sticker price. I negotiate and judge the situation and make a move.

I've read reports that when the U.K. finally leaves, the EU budget would be 15% down without the UK's contributions. The pressure isn't on the UK, its on the EU.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:21 pm

So when Poland leaves the EU as well, are they going to have to jump through hoops like we've been made to do?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:54 pm

par13del wrote:
The bill they agreed to pay was as a member of the EU, now that they are leaving are you suggesting the bill is the same?


No, they should pay what they agreed to and after leaving the EU, you could subtract everything which should go to the UK, within the current agreed budget. After that, there are some other cost like pensions.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:06 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
So when Poland leaves the EU as well, are they going to have to jump through hoops like we've been made to do?

Well, Poland is a net receiver of benefits (€) against what it contributes so their departure won't impact the EU in the same way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of ... .282014.29

This table also shows the real issue with the UK leaving as they are a net (large) contributor to the EU, its budget and its functions. The EU literally can't afford too many like the UK departing, they very much need net contributors and large one are critically important.

(I shall now duck and hide awaiting the potential flaming I may endure. :duck: :boxedin: :flamed: )

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Tugger wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
So when Poland leaves the EU as well, are they going to have to jump through hoops like we've been made to do?

Well, Poland is a net receiver of benefits (€) against what it contributes so their departure won't impact the EU in the same way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of ... .282014.29

This table also shows the real issue with the UK leaving as they are a net (large) contributor to the EU, its budget and its functions. The EU literally can't afford too many like the UK departing, they very much need net contributors and large one are critically important.

(I shall now duck and hide awaiting the potential flaming I may endure. :duck: :boxedin: :flamed: )

Tugg


The real issue is that a large country, and permanent member of the UNSC, is leaving, that will weaken the EU and a large economy to trade with. Same goes for the UK.
In the end, the budget is quite small, The Netherlands spends 2,5times as much. So the EU will survive the 4bn of net contribution.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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par13del
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:

No, they should pay what they agreed to and after leaving the EU, you could subtract everything which should go to the UK, within the current agreed budget. After that, there are some other cost like pensions.

We will have to agree to disagree.
The EU budget I believe is multi-year, if so the portion up to the time of departure should be prorated.
If the UK must pay what they agreed then the EU should also pay what they agreed to invest in the UK, if the triggering of Article 50 releases the EU from its obligations to the UK the same should apply in reverse.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:21 am

Dano1977 wrote:
So you would prefer we just walk away and pay nothing?


if getting you to pay requires violating any EU principles, yes. I very much prefer that.

Of course there are “competing interpretations”.on what is owed.


Of course there are, which is fine,. But ultimately that is an accountants job, not a politicians.

When I make a major purchase I never pay full sticker price. I negotiate and judge the situation and make a move.


You do know that sticker prices pretty much only exist to make you feel good about the purchase? You never ever negotiate yourself our of the suppliers pricing rules.

I've read reports that when the U.K. finally leaves, the EU budget would be 15% down without the UK's contributions.


and expenditures would be down 12%. Leaving a delta of about 100 million EUR per EU member country or some 50ct per EU citizen and month. Still sounds like a big problem to you?

The pressure isn't on the UK, its on the EU.


What the UK is saving is probably around 1/3 of the wages of the bankers leaving the city and moving onto the continent, which means they alone will contribute more in taxes to EU countries, than the UK contributed into the EU budget.

I see no pressure on the EU beyond the desire to have a friendly breakup and a smooth transition.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:26 am

The current budget cycle is from 2014 - 2020. So till March 2019 everything is clear, the UK should fulfill their obligation, just ongoing business, they are among the members of the EU after all. For the remainder of the period, you have a discussion about the net contribution. So we agree that the portion going to the UK, should not be paid, but it seems unfair that when a member leaves all the other members should pay more because we are in this cycle which will not be changed. Then you say that the other states must pay for the UK. Same with other costs like pensions. Or do you say that UK citizens aren't entitled to these benefits anymore after the UK leaves? Or do you want other countries to pay for this? And so there are other costs as well, whom is picking up the tab for moving EU institutions from the UK to other countries?
UK decided to leave, why should the rest of the EU pay for it?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:29 am

May should aim for a hard course. Not one penny after the day the UK is out. Not one penny extra. Paying the EU after being no part of it, would be a slap in the face of the people who voted for the Brexit. It would be treason.
 
JJJ
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:31 am

Dano1977 wrote:
I've read reports that when the U.K. finally leaves, the EU budget would be 15% down without the UK's contributions. The pressure isn't on the UK, its on the EU.


No shit. So the UK makes about 15% of the EU economy and when it leaves it will shrink the EU budget by 15%?

Who would have thought that.
 
vc10
Posts: 1396
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:28 am

Dutchy wrote:
And so there are other costs as well, whom is picking up the tab for moving EU institutions from the UK to other countries?
UK decided to leave, why should the rest of the EU pay for it?


Dutchy ----- Using your own logic, the UK is not forcing the EU to move these institutions, but the EU wants to move them therefore the EU should pay

littlevc10
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Theresa May's plans for EU citizens branded a 'damp squib' by the European Parliament

Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:24 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Dano1977 wrote:
So you would prefer we just walk away and pay nothing?


if getting you to pay requires violating any EU principles, yes. I very much prefer that.

Of course there are “competing interpretations”.on what is owed.


Of course there are, which is fine,. But ultimately that is an accountants job, not a politicians.

When I make a major purchase I never pay full sticker price. I negotiate and judge the situation and make a move.


You do know that sticker prices pretty much only exist to make you feel good about the purchase? You never ever negotiate yourself our of the suppliers pricing rules.

I've read reports that when the U.K. finally leaves, the EU budget would be 15% down without the UK's contributions.


and expenditures would be down 12%. Leaving a delta of about 100 million EUR per EU member country or some 50ct per EU citizen and month. Still sounds like a big problem to you?

The pressure isn't on the UK, its on the EU.


What the UK is saving is probably around 1/3 of the wages of the bankers leaving the city and moving onto the continent, which means they alone will contribute more in taxes to EU countries, than the UK contributed into the EU budget.

I see no pressure on the EU beyond the desire to have a friendly breakup and a smooth transition.

best regards
Thomas



As mentioned in a previous post, you expect the UK to meet it's financial obligations it agreed to before A50. Can we expect the EU to keep it's obligations it promised to finance in the UK before A50 was handed over?
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
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