anshabhi
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Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:18 pm

A more serious than you would expect standoff is occurring at India-Bhutan-China triborder, with China issuing numerous blunt threats to India, like:
" India will suffer worse losses than 1962 if it incites border clash"
Visit their state media http://www.globaltimes.cn to know more.

Here is all about the dispute, from an actually trustable source: http://thebhutanese.bt/understanding-th ... der-issue/

Image

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), on 29th June, issued a press release saying that China’s building of a road inside Bhutanese territory is a violation of the 1988 and 1998 written agreements between the two countries to maintain peace and tranquility and the status quo pending a final settlement on the boundary question.

The release said the road building also affects the process of demarcating the boundary between the two countries.

The MFA release was referring to road construction by the Chinese Army which started constructing a motorable road on 16th June 2017 from Dokala in the Doklam area towards the Bhutan army camp in Zompelri.

Earlier Bhutan’s Ambassador to India, Major General V. Namgyel on 20th June had issued a formal ‘demarche’ to the Chinese Embassy in Delhi asking the Chinese side to stop the road construction stating similar points as the above MFA release.

MEA’s position

Meanwhile, India’s Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) which has so far kept silent about the issue came out with a release on 30th June.

The MEA release mentioned the release by the MFA and its salient points mentioned above.

The MEA said that on 16th June, a PLA construction party entered the Doklam area and attempted to construct a road.

“It is our understanding that a Royal Bhutan Army patrol attempted to dissuade them from this unilateral activity. The Ambassador of the Royal Government of Bhutan (RGOB) has publicly stated that it lodged a protest with the Chinese Government through their Embassy in New Delhi on 20 June,” said the MEA release.

The MEA said that in keeping with the tradition of maintaining close consultation on matters of mutual interest, the RGOB and the Government of India (GoI) have been in continuous contact through the unfolding of these developments.

“In coordination with the RGOB, Indian personnel, who were present at general area in Dokala, approached the Chinese construction party and urged them to desist from changing the status quo. These efforts continue,” said the release.

The MEA said that the matter has since then been discussed between the Foreign Ministries of India and China. The release stated that India is deeply concerned at the recent Chinese actions and has conveyed to the Chinese Government that such construction would represent a significant change of status quo with serious security implications for India.

The Indian side underlined that the two Governments had in 2012 reached agreement that the tri-junction boundary points between India, China and third countries will be finalized in consultation with the concerned countries. The release said that any attempt, therefore, to unilaterally determine tri-junction points is in violation of this understanding.

China’s position

Meanwhile, in a 29th June press briefing, when asked about the ‘demarche’ issued by Bhutan’s Ambassador to the Chinese Embassy on the road issue, the spokesperson of the China’s Foreign Ministry in Beijing claimed that its activities in Doklam are ‘justified and lawful’ as the territory ‘belongs’ to China. These claims are not accepted by both Bhutan and India.

The tri-junction of Gyemochen

The Bhutanese has learnt that the incident happened near the tri junction or ‘Gyemochen’ where the borders of the three countries meet with only a few kilometers separating between each country. There has been some confusion as each country calls the general area by its own designated names.

For Bhutan, the larger area where the incident occurred is known as Doklam. The Chinese road building team with its equipment and soldiers was attempting to do some site cutting to extend its road down south towards a Bhutan Army camp at Zompelri.

Some social media followers in Bhutan are currently confusing the road incident with another zig zag road on the Phutegang ridge, which is also disputed with a Chinese military outpost on one side and a Bhutanese outpost one on the other side. However this road points eastwards towards Haa and there has not been any incidents here.

Whenever there have been attempts to change the status quo on the ground in the past Bhutan has protested and brought up the matter with its counterparts on the Chinese side.

As mentioned above the Royal Bhutan Army first tried to dissuade the Chinese road construction team that refused to cooperate. This was soon followed by Indian soldiers who entered the area and halted the construction.
The Chinese soldiers in response came back later and destroyed a couple of small Indian military outposts in the narrow geographical vicinity.

The area through which China is trying to build the road is Bhutanese territory, which is also claimed by the Chinese and is part of the ongoing annual boundary negotiations.

Strategic games

The Chinese side has built a major road till the Yadong town in the Chumbi valley. The attempt by the Chinese is to take as much roads as it can from there to the Indian and Bhutanese borders in the vicinity.

However, especially for India, any roads moving south towards the Chicken neck is seen as being particularly harmful for its security. The chicken neck is a small piece of land that connects mainland India to its seven north eastern states some of which have restive militancy related problems.

In strategic circles the Chumbi Valley is seen by India as a dagger pointing to its chicken neck.

However, for the Chinese side its efforts in the region are hampered by the fact that while it has territory in the Chumbi valley, it lacks the ‘strategic shoulders’ due to the narrowness of the entire area with India and Bhutan one both sides.

This in part explains why China is claiming 269 sq km of Bhutanese territory in the area as it would get the necessary strategic shoulders and space to operate more freely. India on its part sees this as a major threat.

For Bhutan, loss of any territory or incursions into its areas is not welcome as discussed in several past National Assembly sessions with both pre-democracy Chimis (representatives) and also the post democracy MPs from the area bringing up the issue of encroachments from the Chinese side.

Highlighting the strategic importance of the area China in a package deal in 1996 ‘offered’ to ‘give up’ its claims to 495 sq km of land in the Pasamlung and Jakarlung valleys in Bhutan’s north-central sector of Bumthang in return for giving up the 269 sq km in Doklam to China.



Boundary history

Bhutan’s boundary issues with China started from the 1959 onwards with the PLA’s invasion of Tibet and Bhutan’s subsequent closing of its northern borders. Events at the time also drew Bhutan closer to India.

China also refused to recognize the traditional watershed principle that had decided the boundaries between Bhutan and Tibet.

In the 1950’s and 60’s China kept publishing maps that claimed sections of Bhutanese territory with no clear basis.

Initially Bhutan’s boundary issues were handled with the consultation of New Delhi which held talks with China.

From 1984 onwards Bhutan started to directly handle the issue with China culminating in the first boundary talks in the same year.
In 1988 some broad guiding principles of the talks were agreed upon to maintain peace and not use force to change the status quo. This was further elaborated and defined in a more detailed agreement in 1998.

Between 1984 and 2016 there have been 24 rounds of boundary talks with the Chinese side.

The 24th boundary meeting held in Beijing endorsed the report of the Joint Technical Field Survey of the disputed areas in the western sector carried out by the expert groups of both sides.

While tensions have been heightened over the issue, diplomatic and strategic experts in several news articles from India ruled out any major escalation of the issue as neither China nor India would want military conflict on its borders.

It has been pointed out that this is also not the first border issue as there have been others in the past usually ending in talks.

The writer is the Editor of The Bhutanese Newspaper
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:36 am

Dont cover defense anymore, but will be starting a blogpost shortly on the topic. Anonymous blog, because reporting the truth has become dangerous vocation in the new fascist India. Sharing some excerpts here.

The Chumbi Valley is a narrow finger of land with the mountain kingdom Bhutan on the east and the (now) Indian state of Sikkim on its west, which cuts pincer like to the border with India, joining up at an area called the "tri-junction" - A point where India-China-Bhutan meet. (Map of area)
Image

The conflict today arises from the differing interpretations by India & China on where this tri-junction should be. The Indian side claims the tri-junction ends at a point around 7.5 kms NORTH of where the Chinese say it should be based on the argument that the Doklam area is disputed between China & Bhutan. The Chinese, who have had possession of the Doklam area before 1889 claims the tri-junction is actually 7 kms SOUTH of where the Indians say it is, citing an 1890 treaty between China and British to back up their claim.

The Indian position on the crisis is that the Doklam area is not Chinese because its "disputed" between China & Bhutan. A claim that can be easily countered with legal evidence. Britain, which was the guarantor of Bhutan had settled the border between Bhutan & China in the 1890 agreement. And both "Survey of India" & Chinese maps even as late as 1995 clearly show Doklam as being Chinese territory, attesting to the settlement of the borders. The Doklam issue was first raised by Bhutan in 2000 after numerous trips by the then Indian NSA to Bhutan. Timing of this is crucial. Around 1998, the Indians discovered a new Chinese airbase at a location called Shigaze, close to the border and on the well-supplied highway from Lhasa to Kashghar. Indian strategic planners deduced that the Chinese could build arterial roads to the border right upto the most vulnerable part of the Indian border: The Siliguri Corridor aka "Chickens Neck" (See map). And this road would have to go through the Doklam area.
Image

The Chickens Neck area is a narrrow corridor between the Indian mainland and the 7 North Eastern states of the Indian Union. This area, barely 17kms N-S and 39 kms E-W, contains a major highway and a Broad Gauge railway line. The Indian planners feared, rightly, that an all-weather road upto this point would enable the Chinese to make an assault & holding operation with heavy artillery into the "Chickens Neck" thus cutting off the North Eastern states from the Indian mainland. An air-bridge could maintain supplies, but this would essentially require Air superiority over the NE region: very difficult to maintain considering the 8 other airbases & airfields in the region the Chinese built up over the past 40 years. This is not counting the Advanced Landing Grounds which are too numerous to count. The Indian Army contingents in the NE would thus be stuck fighting the main thrust of Chinese invasion from the NEFA sector in the north without reliable supply of logistics from the mainland. The same unenviable position that Pakistani troops in 1971 faced in what is now Bangladesh.

All was quiet between 2000 & 2016. The Bhutanese even deactivated a number of bunkers facing the Doklam area in 2007 after a round of talks with China. The situation changed in 2017. A number of provocations on both sides began at this time coinciding with Donald Trumps elevation as President in the US. The Chinese continued to block India's NSG ambitions. India refused to join China's ambitious OBOR (One Belt One Road) project. In March 2017, the Indian troops stationed in Bhutan discovered the Chinese actually building the road they had always feared. In Jun, the Indian Army reactivated the bunkers in the Doklam area which had been deactivated by the Bhutanese in 2007. These bunkers on a ridge above the valley bought the road into the line of fire of Indian troops. 4 days later the Chinese moved in to smash the bunkers to allow road construction to continue marking a real escalation of the conflict.

The problem is, India stands on VERY weak legal ground on this issue. If Indians use one agreement to justify their position on this (the tri-junction issue), it directly makes untenable Indian occupation of "South Tibet" - or Arunachal as the Indians call it. And vice versa. Secondly even if the Doklam border is disputed, it is a dispute between Bhutan and the Chinese making India's position vulnerable.

Whichever way you look at it, the Chinese have played a smart game by basing their position strictly on legal merits and treaties signed between various powers that have ruled in the area. And sheer incompetence of the Indian civilian leadership has seen them walk into a nice little trap set by the Chinese. Both sides have backed themselves into positions where neither can back down. The Chinese President Xi likes to parade his strong man image and any backdown against India would cut into that PR exercise. Its even worse for his Indian counterpart, His Excellency and Dear Dear Dear Leader Narendra Peacock. But while the Chinese can afford to posture based on their military strength and the legal basis to their position, the Indian side will find the going increasingly difficult. The military position on the ground is very bleak for India and the economy is rapidly crashing due to the after effects of the ill conceived Demonetisation exercise and gross mismanagement of the economy. Over 200000 manufacturing jobs were lost in the last quarter alone, compounding by a crashing rupee.

Dear Leader can take heart from the rapturous hug he received from Donald Trump in the US last month. Will Donald Trump commit to rescuing India in the event of war between china & india? Will American troops come to India's aid in the event of war? Perhaps they might?
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
Posts: 1264
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:04 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Dont cover defense anymore, but will be starting a blogpost shortly on the topic. Anonymous blog, because reporting the truth has become dangerous vocation in the new fascist India. Sharing some excerpts here.

The Chumbi Valley is a narrow finger of land with the mountain kingdom Bhutan on the east and the (now) Indian state of Sikkim on its west, which cuts pincer like to the border with India, joining up at an area called the "tri-junction" - A point where India-China-Bhutan meet. (Map of area)
Image

The conflict today arises from the differing interpretations by India & China on where this tri-junction should be. The Indian side claims the tri-junction ends at a point around 7.5 kms NORTH of where the Chinese say it should be based on the argument that the Doklam area is disputed between China & Bhutan. The Chinese, who have had possession of the Doklam area before 1889 claims the tri-junction is actually 7 kms SOUTH of where the Indians say it is, citing an 1890 treaty between China and British to back up their claim.

The Indian position on the crisis is that the Doklam area is not Chinese because its "disputed" between China & Bhutan. A claim that can be easily countered with legal evidence. Britain, which was the guarantor of Bhutan had settled the border between Bhutan & China in the 1890 agreement. And both "Survey of India" & Chinese maps even as late as 1995 clearly show Doklam as being Chinese territory, attesting to the settlement of the borders. The Doklam issue was first raised by Bhutan in 2000 after numerous trips by the then Indian NSA to Bhutan. Timing of this is crucial. Around 1998, the Indians discovered a new Chinese airbase at a location called Shigaze, close to the border and on the well-supplied highway from Lhasa to Kashghar. Indian strategic planners deduced that the Chinese could build arterial roads to the border right upto the most vulnerable part of the Indian border: The Siliguri Corridor aka "Chickens Neck" (See map). And this road would have to go through the Doklam area.
Image

The Chickens Neck area is a narrrow corridor between the Indian mainland and the 7 North Eastern states of the Indian Union. This area, barely 17kms N-S and 39 kms E-W, contains a major highway and a Broad Gauge railway line. The Indian planners feared, rightly, that an all-weather road upto this point would enable the Chinese to make an assault & holding operation with heavy artillery into the "Chickens Neck" thus cutting off the North Eastern states from the Indian mainland. An air-bridge could maintain supplies, but this would essentially require Air superiority over the NE region: very difficult to maintain considering the 8 other airbases & airfields in the region the Chinese built up over the past 40 years. This is not counting the Advanced Landing Grounds which are too numerous to count. The Indian Army contingents in the NE would thus be stuck fighting the main thrust of Chinese invasion from the NEFA sector in the north without reliable supply of logistics from the mainland. The same unenviable position that Pakistani troops in 1971 faced in what is now Bangladesh.

All was quiet between 2000 & 2016. The Bhutanese even deactivated a number of bunkers facing the Doklam area in 2007 after a round of talks with China. The situation changed in 2017. A number of provocations on both sides began at this time coinciding with Donald Trumps elevation as President in the US. The Chinese continued to block India's NSG ambitions. India refused to join China's ambitious OBOR (One Belt One Road) project. In March 2017, the Indian troops stationed in Bhutan discovered the Chinese actually building the road they had always feared. In Jun, the Indian Army reactivated the bunkers in the Doklam area which had been deactivated by the Bhutanese in 2007. These bunkers on a ridge above the valley bought the road into the line of fire of Indian troops. 4 days later the Chinese moved in to smash the bunkers to allow road construction to continue marking a real escalation of the conflict.

The problem is, India stands on VERY weak legal ground on this issue. If Indians use one agreement to justify their position on this (the tri-junction issue), it directly makes untenable Indian occupation of "South Tibet" - or Arunachal as the Indians call it. And vice versa. Secondly even if the Doklam border is disputed, it is a dispute between Bhutan and the Chinese making India's position vulnerable.

Whichever way you look at it, the Chinese have played a smart game by basing their position strictly on legal merits and treaties signed between various powers that have ruled in the area. And sheer incompetence of the Indian civilian leadership has seen them walk into a nice little trap set by the Chinese. Both sides have backed themselves into positions where neither can back down. The Chinese President Xi likes to parade his strong man image and any backdown against India would cut into that PR exercise. Its even worse for his Indian counterpart, His Excellency and Dear Dear Dear Leader Narendra Peacock. But while the Chinese can afford to posture based on their military strength and the legal basis to their position, the Indian side will find the going increasingly difficult. The military position on the ground is very bleak for India and the economy is rapidly crashing due to the after effects of the ill conceived Demonetisation exercise and gross mismanagement of the economy. Over 200000 manufacturing jobs were lost in the last quarter alone, compounding by a crashing rupee.

Dear Leader can take heart from the rapturous hug he received from Donald Trump in the US last month. Will Donald Trump commit to rescuing India in the event of war between china & india? Will American troops come to India's aid in the event of war? Perhaps they might?


I suspect the blogger to be another one from your Homeland!
Unlike some Cowards, who would back off at mere provocation, we the true Indians and our Army will fight till the last one of us is alive, to defend our homeland.

And yeah I trust the editor of the Bhutanese much more than your "anonymous" source.


And where are your getting your fictious stats like economy crash, loss of 200,000 jobs, crashing of rupee etc from?

Robert Clive's saying is turning out to be true, 2 centuries later "For personal gains, some of your countrymen would sell your nation as well".
Last edited by anshabhi on Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:07 am

anshabhi wrote:
I suspect the blogger to be another one from your Homeland!
Unlike some Cowards, who would back off at mere provocation, we the true Indians and our Army will fight till the last one of us is alive.

And yeah I trust the editor of the Bhutanese much more than your "anonymous" source.


The anonymous blog is my own. Seems you still have that old problem with English Comprehension. I have to blog anonymously because this is the new India where reporting the truth can get you killed. I like my morning walks! :P

BTW did you actually have any facts to counter the points in my post? Or is it just the usual bluster without substance from you?

Was just sharing some excerpts from my notes. Will be publishing the blog later this week.

Coming up later tomorrow: detailed military analysis of the position on both sides.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
anshabhi
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:18 am

BawliBooch wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
I suspect the blogger to be another one from your Homeland!
Unlike some Cowards, who would back off at mere provocation, we the true Indians and our Army will fight till the last one of us is alive.

And yeah I trust the editor of the Bhutanese much more than your "anonymous" source.


The anonymous blog is my own. Seems you still have that old problem with English Comprehension. I have to blog anonymously because this is the new India where reporting the truth can get you killed. I like my morning walks! :P

BTW did you actually have any facts to counter the points in my post? Or is it just the usual bluster without substance from you?

Was just sharing some excerpts from my notes. Will be publishing the blog later this week.

Coming up later tomorrow: detailed military analysis of the position on both sides.



The treaties that you are referring to date even back before 1947, when the nation of India came into existence.
What treaties are there for the following:

1. why on earth China is asserting itself in south China sea.
2. why on earth China is building roads in disputed POK.
3. why on earth China is bullying all its neighbors.
4. why on earth China is blocking entry of India in NSG or designating Azhar masood a global terrorist ?

The maps that you are referring to date over 1000 years back... India can also claim Pakistan to be its own by similar maps.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:59 am

anshabhi wrote:
The treaties that you are referring to date even back before 1947, when the nation of India came into existence.

Because treaties signed between countries are the basis for diplomacy son! India came into existence as a legal entity in 1947 - and became the legal inheritor of what was previously British-India - along with it the treaties signed by the British-India with various parties. If you question the treaties the British signed, then you question India. Because the British-India was the union of over 800+ princely states of various sizes who the british had defeated across 2 centuries between 1740 and 1947 - each of the 800 joined the British-India with a treaty or surrender. Are we going to be selective in which treaty we accept and which we reject? Is that tenable under law?

If we start questioning the treaties, India as we know it would never have existed. In its place would be atleast 12 independent states (assuming the larger states like Hyderabad & Ahom's would subsume the smaller ones). Without treaties "India" would have looked something like this:
Image

anshabhi wrote:
The maps that you are referring to date over 1000 years back... India can also claim Pakistan to be its own by similar maps.

No son. More like 10 years old. The 1st map in my OP is from a CIA fact file. The Survey Maps I use for my research are from India itself. Go get yourself a copy for any year after 1870 or so: Just 175 Rupees each. Avail in scale down to 1km. For 800 rupees they will burn you a DVD.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:38 am

I am relatively free today and in a very good mood after a round of golf! So let me pour my beer and answer your questions son!

anshabhi wrote:
1. why on earth China is asserting itself in south China sea.

China is asserting itself in the South China Sea for the same reason that India is building naval bases 6000 miles away off the African coast - to keep an eye on the naval ships of American and other world powers and for possible power projection. You were not even born then, but in the late 80's, Indian Navy intervened to prevent a coup in Male that would have deposed a pro-India President Gayoom. All world powers do that. The South China Sea is of strategic importance to China so it will project power there. I would be more worried about Chinese submarine bases & listening posts off the Burmese coast in the Andaman Sea. How did these get there? Do read that on my upcoming blog! :)

anshabhi wrote:
2. why on earth China is building roads in disputed POK.

China occupies Aksai Chin (technically Indian territory) since 1951. Their major CH219 highway to the Xinjiang province passes through there. PoK refers to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir - the parts occupied by Pakistan from 1948. The Pakistani's invited/allowed the Chinese to build an extension from their Xinjiang highway to link up with Pakistan which runs through PoK. Perhaps Dear Leader should send a couple of Sukhoi's to bomb this Karakoram Highway. Big nuisance no? What can China/Pakistan do?

anshabhi wrote:
3. why on earth China is bullying all its neighbors.

Bullying neighbors? Boy! Thats a difficult one! All big countries are accused by their smaller neighbors of doing that sort of thing. Big boys are usually bad boys son! That is fact. Perhaps we should ask India's neighbors, all of which have been at the receiving end of India's aggression. Pakistan was invaded and split into 2 - a fate they would like to do to India. Sri Lanka was invaded in the 80's using the excuse of eliminating the LTTE - a terror organisation created by our own intelligence agency RAW.

In the past 2 years since Dear Leader has come to power, how have we behaved with out Neighbors? We pissed Sri Lanka off by firing on their fishermen and playing games with tarriffs. China has 2 bases in Lanka now. Burma should have been India's friend: their president lived and studied in India for most of her life. She was too, until Dear Leader decided the Rohingya issue was too good an opportunity to let pass. China has been allowed by Burma to station submarines & listening posts!

Nepal: the only Hindu republic in the world should have been India's best friend. But Dear Leader pushed Nepal into the Chinese sphere of influence with his ill-considered meddling in the Madhesi issue. I have driven extensively through Nepal, Sri Lanka & Burma. Ask any local what they think of India. Big Bully is usually the first answer.

Again, you weren't even born then, But did you know Sikkim used to be an independent country just like Bhutan is today? Until the King of Sikkim decided he didn't want to be pulled into another India-China spat and asserted his independence. Within days, a Gorkha rebellion was used as an excuse to topple the King and take over the kingdom. That kingdom was the 22nd state in the Indian Union - Sikkim! :)

People in Sikkim and Bhutan are now saying that Modi will do the same thing if the Bhutan King decides to do what the King of Sikkim did in 1975 - stay neutral in this fight between India & China and ask Indian troops to leave his territory. What do you think? Will India topple the Bhutan king and make it an Indian state?

The list is much longer. But my mug is empty and I need to refill.

anshabhi wrote:
4. why on earth China is blocking entry of India in NSG or designating Azhar masood a global terrorist ?

China is an "all weather friend" of our other enemy Pakistan and as such can be expected to stand up for them. Also the Chinese could well ask why India is harboring Tibetan Freedom Fighters who are fighting the Chinese?

These are all big power games son! When you grow up you will understand! Ok?
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
anshabhi
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:42 am

BawliBooch wrote:
I am relatively free today and in a very good mood after a round of golf! So let me pour my beer and answer your questions son!

anshabhi wrote:
1. why on earth China is asserting itself in south China sea.

China is asserting itself in the South China Sea for the same reason that India is building naval bases 6000 miles away off the African coast - to keep an eye on the naval ships of American and other world powers and for possible power projection. You were not even born then, but in the late 80's, Indian Navy intervened to prevent a coup in Male that would have deposed a pro-India President Gayoom. All world powers do that. The South China Sea is of strategic importance to China so it will project power there. I would be more worried about Chinese submarine bases & listening posts off the Burmese coast in the Andaman Sea. How did these get there? Do read that on my upcoming blog! :)

anshabhi wrote:
2. why on earth China is building roads in disputed POK.

China occupies Aksai Chin (technically Indian territory) since 1951. Their major CH219 highway to the Xinjiang province passes through there. PoK refers to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir - the parts occupied by Pakistan from 1948. The Pakistani's invited/allowed the Chinese to build an extension from their Xinjiang highway to link up with Pakistan which runs through PoK. Perhaps Dear Leader should send a couple of Sukhoi's to bomb this Karakoram Highway. Big nuisance no? What can China/Pakistan do?

anshabhi wrote:
3. why on earth China is bullying all its neighbors.

Bullying neighbors? Boy! Thats a difficult one! All big countries are accused by their smaller neighbors of doing that sort of thing. Big boys are usually bad boys son! That is fact. Perhaps we should ask India's neighbors, all of which have been at the receiving end of India's aggression. Pakistan was invaded and split into 2 - a fate they would like to do to India. Sri Lanka was invaded in the 80's using the excuse of eliminating the LTTE - a terror organisation created by our own intelligence agency RAW.

In the past 2 years since Dear Leader has come to power, how have we behaved with out Neighbors? We pissed Sri Lanka off by firing on their fishermen and playing games with tarriffs. China has 2 bases in Lanka now. Burma should have been India's friend: their president lived and studied in India for most of her life. She was too, until Dear Leader decided the Rohingya issue was too good an opportunity to let pass. China has been allowed by Burma to station submarines & listening posts!

Nepal: the only Hindu republic in the world should have been India's best friend. But Dear Leader pushed Nepal into the Chinese sphere of influence with his ill-considered meddling in the Madhesi issue. I have driven extensively through Nepal, Sri Lanka & Burma. Ask any local what they think of India. Big Bully is usually the first answer.

Again, you weren't even born then, But did you know Sikkim used to be an independent country just like Bhutan is today? Until the King of Sikkim decided he didn't want to be pulled into another India-China spat and asserted his independence. Within days, a Gorkha rebellion was used as an excuse to topple the King and take over the kingdom. That kingdom was the 22nd state in the Indian Union - Sikkim! :)

People in Sikkim and Bhutan are now saying that Modi will do the same thing if the Bhutan King decides to do what the King of Sikkim did in 1975 - stay neutral in this fight between India & China and ask Indian troops to leave his territory. What do you think? Will India topple the Bhutan king and make it an Indian state?

The list is much longer. But my mug is empty and I need to refill.

anshabhi wrote:
4. why on earth China is blocking entry of India in NSG or designating Azhar masood a global terrorist ?

China is an "all weather friend" of our other enemy Pakistan and as such can be expected to stand up for them. Also the Chinese could well ask why India is harboring Tibetan Freedom Fighters who are fighting the Chinese?

These are all big power games son! When you grow up you will understand! Ok?



Your hipocrisy is incredible! Let China do everything because its a "world Power", and if you want to do the same things to China, don't because BB thinks so!!

I don't find any merit in uselessly arguing with you, every other day. Go to any Bhutanese news page on fb to know the views of Bhutanese people and how much afraid of India are they.
Save your taste and innocent souls! http://www.chooseveg.com
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 am

anshabhi wrote:
Your hipocrisy is incredible! Let China do everything because its a "world Power", and if you want to do the same things to China, don't because BB thinks so!!


Hain? Where did I say "dont do the same things to China" son? :? India should absolutely do it!

But go into it with planning & forethought. Right now its a total clusterf**k! Our army is thoroughly unprepared and yet our Govt is biting into every bait the Chinese are throwing at us. It is going to lead to certain disaster.

The Chinese have clearly been planning ahead and planning well at that.

3D Map of Tri-Junction area: Rough cut roads already built upto the Indian border.
Image
3 months ago this was a mountain face! And now you already have a rough road in place. These guys are damn serious! The roads here are not suitable yet for largescale movement of tanks & artillery. But Type-4: so enough to get a couple of Tank regiments across to the Indian side with arty cover from the other side. The first village/town on the Indian side, around 12 kms downhill to the south can be easily held as a "beachhead" and then used as a base to get more troops in down the now open pass.

Noticed another thing: on every potential invasion point, the Chinese have good roads but also have built these strange flat areas at regular intervals uphill. Perfect mounting points for Heavy arty guns? And at the base of the mountain on the Chinese side: a Helipad.
Image


First noticed this when I visited Bum-La in the Arunachal sector. But it is also true in the Ladakh sector. On every potential invasion point, we see a consistent pattern. The Chinese have fantastic all-weather roads coming right up to the border/LoC, while on the Indian side its all rough roads with steep winding curves. When I visited Bum-La: on the Chinese side it was buttery roads on the their side, but on our side it was a steep climb up from Tawang with sharp 180° degree turns. While descending kept sliding even with 4L engaged! I was told it was intentionally done as a defensive feature to prevent any large scale invasion from the Chinese side. I am not too sure this approach really works. It didn't in 1962! If the Chinese do get past Bum-La into Tawang, Arunachal / "South Tibet" is all but lost.

I understand the desire of some "nationalist" Indian's to "take revenge for the 1962 defeat". I dont agree with that, but I understand it. But we need to be prepared for it. Right now we are not. Not even close!
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:16 am

BawliBooch wrote:

Hain? Where did I say "dont do the same things to China" son? :? India should absolutely do it!

But go into it with planning & forethought. Right now its a total clusterf**k! Our army is thoroughly unprepared and yet our Govt is biting into every bait the Chinese are throwing at us. It is going to lead to certain disaster.

The Chinese have clearly been planning ahead and planning well at that.

3D Map of Tri-Junction area: Rough cut roads already built upto the Indian border.
Image
3 months ago this was a mountain face! And now you already have a rough road in place. These guys are damn serious! The roads here are not suitable yet for largescale movement of tanks & artillery. But Type-4: so enough to get a couple of Tank regiments across to the Indian side with arty cover from the other side. The first village/town on the Indian side, around 12 kms downhill to the south can be easily held as a "beachhead" and then used as a base to get more troops in down the now open pass.

Noticed another thing: on every potential invasion point, the Chinese have good roads but also have built these strange flat areas at regular intervals uphill. Perfect mounting points for Heavy arty guns? And at the base of the mountain on the Chinese side: a Helipad.
Image


First noticed this when I visited Bum-La in the Arunachal sector. But it is also true in the Ladakh sector. On every potential invasion point, we see a consistent pattern. The Chinese have fantastic all-weather roads coming right up to the border/LoC, while on the Indian side its all rough roads with steep winding curves. When I visited Bum-La: on the Chinese side it was buttery roads on the their side, but on our side it was a steep climb up from Tawang with sharp 180° degree turns. While descending kept sliding even with 4L engaged! I was told it was intentionally done as a defensive feature to prevent any large scale invasion from the Chinese side. I am not too sure this approach really works. It didn't in 1962! If the Chinese do get past Bum-La into Tawang, Arunachal / "South Tibet" is all but lost.

I understand the desire of some "nationalist" Indian's to "take revenge for the 1962 defeat". I dont agree with that, but I understand it. But we need to be prepared for it. Right now we are not. Not even close!

You only seem to know about the Chinese side. I only know about Indian side.

Indian Army prepared for a two-and-a-half fronts war
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 048582.cms
now please don't complain that you don't know the confidential details of India's preparations.
Last edited by anshabhi on Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:17 am

Bhutan the most peaceful country in the world. Why would China mess with them? And why would China be aggressive towards India? A bit dangerous I would say, India can do some serious damage to China, if they wanted to (and the other way around).
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:32 am

Dutchy wrote:
Bhutan the most peaceful country in the world. Why would China mess with them?

Bhutan is not the one responsible for the stand-off. As an Indian "protecterate" with troops stationed on its territory it has little option but to tow the Indian line. Their King is in the same quandary as the Kingdom of Sikkim was. He is well aware of what happened when Sikkim tried to stay neutral in the Indo-China spat following 1967 Nathu La incident. India had that king deposed and annexed the territory. Little doubt what would happen if the King of Bhutan chose that option again.

Dutchy wrote:
And why would China be aggressive towards India?

As 2 great powers next to each other conflict is inevitable. The British fought the Chinese bitterly till 1889 when some sort of truce was formed. But since then, the British and later Indians have found themselves in conflict again.

The main bone of contention is the area that used to be called "South Tibet" or as India calls it: Arunachal. In the 1890 Anglo-Chinese treaty, this area was acknowledged as Chinese territory. But in 1910, the British with one sweep of the pen started showing the area as part of British-India. Actual control of the area continued to be in Chinese hands till 1949. As the Communists-Nationalist conflict raged in China, India took advantage of the distraction and took control of the area which was called NEFA till 1980's. China still lays claim to this area which is shown as "South Tibet" in their maps. British maps upto 1910 also showed it as such BTW.

anshabhi wrote:
You only seem to know about the Chinese side. I only know about Indian side.

Indian Army prepared for a two-and-a-half fronts war
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 048582.cms
now please don't complain that you don't know the confidential details of India's preparations.


Go easy! No need to shout!

The Indian COAS Gen Rawat is well known for shooting his mouth off. Those who have studied the history of the disastrous 1962 war know better. Indian Army Chief and the head of IB made similar bombastic statements about being able to fight a 2 front war and similar nonsense. Google for BM Kaul to know how his career went.

If Dear Leader is really serious about taking China head on he should make a start by easing back on the rhetoric because we just aren't ready for war with China. Secondly: fire both Gen Rawat and that Doval fellow - these 2 buffoons have been responsible for enough f***ups already from Chumar to Pathankot! And thirdly: prepare for conflict with China but avoid direct conflict till we are ready.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
anshabhi
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:43 am

BawliBooch wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
You only seem to know about the Chinese side. I only know about Indian side.

Indian Army prepared for a two-and-a-half fronts war
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 048582.cms
now please don't complain that you don't know the confidential details of India's preparations.


Go easy! No need to shout!

The Indian COAS Gen Rawat is well known for shooting his mouth off. Those who have studied the history of the disastrous 1962 war know better. Indian Army Chief and the head of IB made similar bombastic statements about being able to fight a 2 front war and similar nonsense. Google for BM Kaul to know how his career went.

If Dear Leader is really serious about taking China head on he should make a start by easing back on the rhetoric because we just aren't ready for war with China. Secondly: fire both Gen Rawat and that Doval fellow - these 2 buffoons have been responsible for enough f***ups already from Chumar to Pathankot! And thirdly: prepare for conflict with China but avoid direct conflict till we are ready.


The larger truth is India and China will only fight in various online games and forums. Even remotely, a real war is impossible.
These issues are just food to satisfy the nationalists on both the sides. Sometimes they win, sometimes we do
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:45 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Bhutan the most peaceful country in the world. Why would China mess with them?

Bhutan is not the one responsible for the stand-off. As an Indian "protecterate" with troops stationed on its territory it has little option but to tow the Indian line. Their King is in the same quandary as the Kingdom of Sikkim was. He is well aware of what happened when Sikkim tried to stay neutral in the Indo-China spat following 1967 Nathu La incident. India had that king deposed and annexed the territory. Little doubt what would happen if the King of Bhutan chose that option again.

Dutchy wrote:
And why would China be aggressive towards India?

As 2 great powers next to each other conflict is inevitable. The British fought the Chinese bitterly till 1889 when some sort of truce was formed. But since then, the British and later Indians have found themselves in conflict again.

The main bone of contention is the area that used to be called "South Tibet" or as India calls it: Arunachal. In the 1890 Anglo-Chinese treaty, this area was acknowledged as Chinese territory. But in 1910, the British with one sweep of the pen started showing the area as part of British-India. Actual control of the area continued to be in Chinese hands till 1949. As the Communists-Nationalist conflict raged in China, India took advantage of the distraction and took control of the area which was called NEFA till 1980's. China still lays claim to this area which is shown as "South Tibet" in their maps. British maps upto 1910 also showed it as such BTW.


Thanks for the inside, so the Brits did it again ;-).
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:06 am

Dutchy wrote:
Thanks for the inside, so the Brits did it again ;-).


As in being the root cause of the conflict? Yeah sure! But then we had a choice not to follow in their footsteps. Sadly, we didn't! The annexation of Sikkim, 30 years after independence for eg is something Lord Dalhousie would have been proud of!!

Check this British "Survey of India" map of Assam province from 1904 - back then Assam encompassed 5 of the 7 current states. But notice how the area north of Lakhimpur in the east & Kamrup on the west formed the international border with Tibet?
Image

Now check the map today. Entire areas like Shunden Gomba and Lakang are now in India.

What happened is, post 1910, the British unilaterally updated the map with a new MacMohan line usurping the whole of South Tibet even though the area physically continued to be administered by the Chinese. It wasn't until 1949 that newly independent India evicted the Tibetan administrators from Tawang and bought that area into its control to become the Indian state of Arunachal. And since then the 2 countries have been in a Cold-War!
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:12 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Thanks for the inside, so the Brits did it again ;-).


As in being the root cause of the conflict? Yeah sure! But then we had a choice not to follow in their footsteps. Sadly, we didn't! The annexation of Sikkim, 30 years after independence for eg is something Lord Dalhousie would have been proud of!!

Check this British "Survey of India" map of Assam province from 1904 - back then Assam encompassed 5 of the 7 current states. But notice how the area north of Lakhimpur in the east & Kamrup on the west formed the international border with Tibet?
Image

Now check the map today. Entire areas like Shunden Gomba and Lakang are now in India.

What happened is, post 1910, the British unilaterally updated the map with a new MacMohan line usurping the whole of South Tibet even though the area physically continued to be administered by the Chinese. It wasn't until 1949 that newly independent India evicted the Tibetan administrators from Tawang and bought that area into its control to become the Indian state of Arunachal. And since then the 2 countries have been in a Cold-War!


So the Brits can be proud at this one as well. And yes the Indians (is this how people in India are called?, in Dutch we have two words: Indiaan (native Americans) and Indieër (someone from India)) as well. All those border conflicts are truly amazing.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:
And yes the Indians (is this how people in India are called?, in Dutch we have two words: Indiaan (native Americans) and Indieër (someone from India)) as well.

Ja! Wij zijn Indiërs! Meer Britten dan de Britten! :P
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bunumuring
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Hey guys,
The above posts and opinions have been very educational for me and I appreciate all the posts. This has not made it into the Australian media as far as I am aware yet it does seem to be fairly serious. I hope that a peaceful resolution can be found.
Cheers,
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
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777Jet
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:26 pm

Dutchy wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Bhutan the most peaceful country in the world. Why would China mess with them?

Bhutan is not the one responsible for the stand-off. As an Indian "protecterate" with troops stationed on its territory it has little option but to tow the Indian line. Their King is in the same quandary as the Kingdom of Sikkim was. He is well aware of what happened when Sikkim tried to stay neutral in the Indo-China spat following 1967 Nathu La incident. India had that king deposed and annexed the territory. Little doubt what would happen if the King of Bhutan chose that option again.

Dutchy wrote:
And why would China be aggressive towards India?

As 2 great powers next to each other conflict is inevitable. The British fought the Chinese bitterly till 1889 when some sort of truce was formed. But since then, the British and later Indians have found themselves in conflict again.

The main bone of contention is the area that used to be called "South Tibet" or as India calls it: Arunachal. In the 1890 Anglo-Chinese treaty, this area was acknowledged as Chinese territory. But in 1910, the British with one sweep of the pen started showing the area as part of British-India. Actual control of the area continued to be in Chinese hands till 1949. As the Communists-Nationalist conflict raged in China, India took advantage of the distraction and took control of the area which was called NEFA till 1980's. China still lays claim to this area which is shown as "South Tibet" in their maps. British maps upto 1910 also showed it as such BTW.


Thanks for the inside, so the Brits did it again ;-).


That's just smoke and mirrors. You know as well as other educated posters in non-av that the DVD was behind all of this. If you need more info just ask in the spyhunter thread ;)
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90,717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9,306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So the Brits can be proud at this one as well. And yes the Indians (is this how people in India are called?, in Dutch we have two words: Indiaan (native Americans) and Indieër (someone from India)) as well. All those border conflicts are truly amazing.


They knew very well the empire is not going to last forever and without these conflicts, they cannot collect royalties and sell consultancy services.

One question I never understood. Why are all border conflicts about a mostly useless piece of land?
 
c933103
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:26 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
British-India was the union of over 800+ princely states of various sizes who the british had defeated across 2 centuries between 1740 and 1947 - each of the 800 joined the British-India with a treaty or surrender. Are we going to be selective in which treaty we accept and which we reject? Is that tenable under law?

Not sure about the situation in India, but China have been selectively picking what treaties Qing and RoC signed before 1949 should they accept or reject on the ground that some of them are "unequal treaties", and they have been soing so ever since the creation of PRC.
 
c933103
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:35 pm

By the way, as these conflicts are happening next to Sikkim, is the West Bengal meddling with Sikkim right now and interrupting its transportation?
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:07 am

c933103 wrote:
Not sure about the situation in India, but China have been selectively picking what treaties Qing and RoC signed before 1949 should they accept or reject on the ground that some of them are "unequal treaties", and they have been soing so ever since the creation of PRC.


All "great powers" do that when dealing with smaller states. But when 2 great powers start doing it with each, as in this case, things start to get serious.



c933103 wrote:
By the way, as these conflicts are happening next to Sikkim, is the West Bengal meddling with Sikkim right now and interrupting its transportation?

Thats the worrying flashpoint. With the Bhutan situation hotting up, pent up resentments from 1975 are starting to come out. Was surprised to the see the level of anti-India sentiment in the state when I visited Sikkim last month. From the driver of the Safari I usually hire at Siliguri to local lodge owners at Gurudongmar. Very very worrying. Bengal state govt's behavior are compounding the crisis. Gives china one more stick to beat us with. The forcible annexation of Sikkim in 1975 has left some deep wounds.

dtw2hyd wrote:
One question I never understood. Why are all border conflicts about a mostly useless piece of land?

Well the barren Aksai Chin area in Ladakh is useless for India, but it is very useful for China. The highway to connect their remote province of Xinjiang passes through here as well as the connection to their all-weather friend Pakistan.

I also understand why the British chose to unilaterally indulge in cartographic aggression and claim South Tibet/NEFA. With the border at Lakhimpur, China would have the upper ridges in their hands. Not suitable for a defense of the Assam plains in case the Chinese ever decided to move in to Assam. With the map line moved northwards to BumLa, Britain held the upper ridges looking down on the Tibetan plateau. This is as true today as it was for the British. If the Chinese ever manage to smash through to Tawang, its not just NEFA, but the entire NE area comprising 6 other states is effectively lost. Remember we are dealing with "freedom struggles" in 4 out of those 6 states.

Also the NEFA (as the British called this area) proved to be very useful in World War 2. Airstrips in NEFA & Assam were used as the base for the Anglo-American air supply mission to China called "The Hump". 100's of C46's & Dakotas of the US Army Air Force flew out of airstrips in NEFA like Dimjam & Daporijo keeping the war effort in China alive.
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anshabhi
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:34 am

Dutchy wrote:
Bhutan the most peaceful country in the world. Why would China mess with them? And why would China be aggressive towards India? A bit dangerous I would say, India can do some serious damage to China, if they wanted to (and the other way around).

For the same reason why China is messing with every small country in the region- from SCS to this Bhutan border issue.
China wants India and every other country to become another dumping ground for cheap products, and destroy all of our local manufacturing and exports in the process. We would never let that happen.

Friendship with China is dangerous. You must read about new-East India company aka CPEC.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1333101
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:39 pm

anshabhi wrote:
For the same reason why China is messing with every small country in the region- from SCS to this Bhutan border issue.
China wants India and every other country to become another dumping ground for cheap products, and destroy all of our local manufacturing and exports in the process. We would never let that happen.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1333101


"Because China does it" is no excuse for India to be stationing troops in Bhutan or annexing Sikkim. Just like 1984 riots are not an excuse for another riot supervised by Dear Leader in 2002. And because Aurangzeb behaved like an ass in the 16 century is no excuse for Dear Leader's stormtroopers to lynch Muslims & Christians today.

This kind of Whataboutery is classic BJP! Nobody is buying it.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:41 pm

anshabhi wrote:
For the same reason why China is messing with every small country in the region- from SCS to this Bhutan border issue.
China wants India and every other country to become another dumping ground for cheap products, and destroy all of our local manufacturing and exports in the process. We would never let that happen.

Friendship with China is dangerous. You must read about new-East India company aka CPEC.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1333101


So in a sense, with this kind of whataboutery, this Indian teenager ANSHABHI is basically confirming that the warmongering in Doklam is essentially nothing to do with "Chinese aggression", but an Indian response to China's economic imperialism!

Thank you son! Couldn't have said it better! :D
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anshabhi
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:33 am

BawliBooch wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
For the same reason why China is messing with every small country in the region- from SCS to this Bhutan border issue.
China wants India and every other country to become another dumping ground for cheap products, and destroy all of our local manufacturing and exports in the process. We would never let that happen.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1333101


"Because China does it" is no excuse for India to be stationing troops in Bhutan or annexing Sikkim. Just like 1984 riots are not an excuse for another riot supervised by Dear Leader in 2002. And because Aurangzeb behaved like an ass in the 16 century is no excuse for Dear Leader's stormtroopers to lynch Muslims & Christians today.

This kind of Whataboutery is classic BJP! Nobody is buying it.


*Nobody among Indian liberals is buying it. Everyone else does.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:26 am

anshabhi wrote:
*Nobody among Indian liberals is buying it. Everyone else does.


15 year old kids should not speak for "everyone else". Suggest you stick to the kiddie area son because its clear you have no clue of what you are talking about!

The one problem right now: the relentless barrage of false propaganda by the Right WIng propagandists being spread through Social Media & WhatsApp. And children like anshabhi are falling for this fake news.

A lot of people for eg werent aware of the history of how Sikkim was forcibly annexed into India, or Manipur! Now that they know, they have a fresh perspective on the issue.

That is why I love my job.
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fallap
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:14 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
*Nobody among Indian liberals is buying it. Everyone else does.


15 year old kids should not speak for "everyone else". Suggest you stick to the kiddie area son because its clear you have no clue of what you are talking about!

The one problem right now: the relentless barrage of false propaganda by the Right WIng propagandists being spread through Social Media & WhatsApp. And children like anshabhi are falling for this fake news.

A lot of people for eg werent aware of the history of how Sikkim was forcibly annexed into India, or Manipur! Now that they know, they have a fresh perspective on the issue.

That is why I love my job.


I'm genuinely curious, what is your job?
Grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:33 am

Investigative journalism, it seems.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:13 am

fallap wrote:
I'm genuinely curious, what is your job?

Used to be a journalist: mainly covering Financial Stories. Now a documentary filmmaker. Plan to publish my travel books sometime after I complete my move to Canada.

CanadaFair wrote:
Investigative journalism, it seems.

My job as a journalist is to provide objective perspective on the issue.

People reading are free to investigate each of the points made in the my posts to verify for themselves. Feel free to contradict me with facts. Thats how you debate in a healthy democracy. I will willingly partake in such debate.

Or, like anshabhi and other bhakts, you can choose to descend to abuse and rhetoric. I will keep out of that!

The choice is yours.

Some suggested reading:
Himalayan Blunder

India's China War by Neville Maxwell

JFK's Forgotten Crisis: Tibet, the CIA, and the Sino-Indian War by Bruce Reidel

Britain and Tibet 1765-1947: A Select Annotated Bibliography of British Relations with Tibet and the Himalayan States including Nepal, Sikkim and Bhutan

Smash and Grab: Annexation of Sikkim

Sikkim: Requiem for a Himalayan Kingdom by Andrew Duff
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CanadaFair
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:25 am

I didn't mean it in a negative way, as a matter of fact, I really admire Bhanda Phore people like you.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Standoff at India-Bhutan-China tri-border

Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:18 am

PLA carries out live-fire drill near India border

The People’s Liberation Army has carried out a live-fire, brigade-level military exercise on the Tibet plateau which borders India. The exercise was held last week while troops from India and China remain locked in a standoff in Doklam at the trijunction with Bhutan.
This military exercise on the Tibet plateau comes days after a light battle tank was tested near the Indian border late June. Another live-fire exercise was carried out earlier this month in an unidentified area at an altitude of 5,100 metres.
State-run media reported Monday that the live-fire exercise was conducted by a brigade from the PLA’s Tibet Military Command, one of two mountain brigades in the region. The drill was conducted to “improve troop combat capability on such locations”.
According to CCTV, the “brigade has long been stationed around the middle and lower reaches of the Yarlung Zangbo River and is responsible for frontline combat missions.” Yarlung Zangbo (Tsangpo) is the Tibetan name for the Brahmaputra that flows through India and Bangladesh.
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Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos