jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:37 am

And the senior Senator from Arizona votes ... NO

Can't wait for the tweets in the AM
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:41 am

jetero wrote:
And the senior Senator from Arizona votes ... NO

Can't wait for the tweets in the AM

He made WHAT "no" vote?

Link? Explanation?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:44 am

BobPatterson wrote:
jetero wrote:
And the senior Senator from Arizona votes ... NO

Can't wait for the tweets in the AM

He made WHAT "no" vote?

Link? Explanation?


No on "Skinny Repeal" ... bill cannot go to Conference.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:57 am

jetero wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
jetero wrote:
And the senior Senator from Arizona votes ... NO

Can't wait for the tweets in the AM

He made WHAT "no" vote?

Link? Explanation?


No on "Skinny Repeal" ... bill cannot go to Conference.

First news report I've seen: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/p ... -vote.html

I'm surprised that Alaska and Arizona did not each provide two NO votes, just to teach Mr. Trump that political bribery will not work.

Fine move by Senator McCain.

Politico Link: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/2 ... tus-241025
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:04 am

How much do you wanna bet that Alaska and Arizona are going to get their federal funds cut in retaliation ?

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/trump-ad ... -vote.html

Its not as crazy as it sounds....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:10 am

alberchico wrote:
How much do you wanna bet that Alaska and Arizona are going to get their federal funds cut in retaliation ?

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/trump-ad ... -vote.html

Its not as crazy as it sounds....

They would have had lots of health care funds cut. Maybe in Alaska and Arizona they understand that -3 health is more than -2 other stuff.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:09 am

TIMELINE FOR TODAY'S SENATE REJECTION OF ANY HEALTHCARE REPEAL OR REPLACE:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3442 ... ote-a-rama
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
ltbewr
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:34 am

I hope that when all Senators and Congress members go back home they get an earful for their obscene attempts to destroy the ACA and related cuts in access to health care in Medicare and Medicaid. We have dodged a bullet for now, but of course the right wingers will try and try again.

I agree there are serious problems of the ACA, Medicare and Medicaid including access, quality of service and costs. Going to 'single payer' or 'Universal' not-for profit care will not happen easily due to the huge profits to a few who control our politicians. The USA needs to look at other countries and come up with a new healthcare access structure that could work in our country as well as long term improvements in reducing health risks including diet, obesity, encouraging exercise and personal responsibility.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:13 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
I really don't care what the rest of the world does. I want a free market health care system and won't entertain any other alternatives until we try that first. Our healthcare sector today isn't remotely close to a free market. Profit is one of the most powerful incentives for driving cost efficiency, innovation, and quality.


As long as health care companies can literally buy US politicians, you're never going to get anything close to a free market.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:24 am

dragon-wings wrote:
It looks like the Trump administration is blackmailing the state of Alaska and Lisa Murkowski (R) over her No heath care vote.

https://www.adn.com/politics/2017/07/26 ... or-alaska/


The subjects of the blackmail are hair-raising, basically Trump would not allow the destruction of wildlife refuges, how ironic.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:00 pm

Ted Cruz predicts Congress will still repeal ObamaCare

"I believe this Congress will come back and in time we will honor our promises. You know senators are going to come home in the next few weeks," Cruz told reporters early Friday morning. "They're going to go home to their states, and they're going to face our their constituents and they're going to have hard questions."

"I believe we'll come back and we will honor our promise."
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:20 pm

Sure, Ted Cruz predicted that. They had seven plus years to come up with a repeal and replace and they could not do it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:42 pm

Whatever way you look at it, it looks bad for US democracy. Almost a decade of railing against that one single policy, most of it with a high proportion of power, now with all of it, and still nothing happens.

And yet most of these politicos will win elections again and again, while nothing gets done.

This has nothing to do with Trump. Trump being ineffective, on the contrary, proves something is working. He didn't gain enough support to have momentum, and the way he goes at things, he has pretty much all public employees against him.

However, repelling Obamacare was a proposal of every Republican candidate, at all levels. I'm not saying I fault the realists who are now voting against it because they see that following through on their promise will be a disaster, but that nothing was done long before it came to this is appalling. That a brand new proposal about this or that, rushed through, can't get passed is one thing, but this is pretty much the one and only policy being banged about by the GOP for 8 years !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:23 pm

Aesma wrote:
This has nothing to do with Trump. Trump being ineffective, on the contrary, proves something is working. He didn't gain enough support to have momentum, and the way he goes at things, he has pretty much all public employees against him.


I would think the GOP leadership expected Trump to be a easy to control, since he lacks experience and needs them, useful idiot.

Turns out he isn´t useful.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:12 pm

Aesma wrote:
Whatever way you look at it, it looks bad for US democracy. Almost a decade of railing against that one single policy, most of it with a high proportion of power, now with all of it, and still nothing happens.

And yet most of these politicos will win elections again and again, while nothing gets done.

This has nothing to do with Trump. Trump being ineffective, on the contrary, proves something is working. He didn't gain enough support to have momentum, and the way he goes at things, he has pretty much all public employees against him.

However, repelling Obamacare was a proposal of every Republican candidate, at all levels. I'm not saying I fault the realists who are now voting against it because they see that following through on their promise will be a disaster, but that nothing was done long before it came to this is appalling. That a brand new proposal about this or that, rushed through, can't get passed is one thing, but this is pretty much the one and only policy being banged about by the GOP for 8 years !


There are two scenarios that will happen here (both may happen or either one):
1. GOP lawmakers will be punished in the 2018 elections (I mean...they have ALL the power and still can't get around)?
2. Red-state Democrats will be voted out of office and replaced with Republicans. That may help them get over 50 but it may not be enough to get them over 60.

At this point, anything is possible.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:45 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
TIMELINE FOR TODAY'S SENATE REJECTION OF ANY HEALTHCARE REPEAL OR REPLACE:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3442 ... ote-a-rama


So ... much ... WINNING!!! :butthead:
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:52 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Ted Cruz predicts Congress will still repeal ObamaCare

"I believe this Congress will come back and in time we will honor our promises. You know senators are going to come home in the next few weeks," Cruz told reporters early Friday morning. "They're going to go home to their states, and they're going to face our their constituents and they're going to have hard questions."

"I believe we'll come back and we will honor our promise."


With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.

Who're these guys talking to? If they're so damned interested in winning elections, why not bother looking at the damned polls? Do they have any inkling that a good portion of the country wants them to put up and shut up? The repeal Obamacare crap was nothing more than a vehicle for a lie for a bunch of people to funnel their irrational frustrations with a black president through, fed happily by Republican ideologues and know-nothings. Hell, for Paul Ryan it was a grand circle-jerk experiment to take something away, no matter what the costs! I'm sure the majority had no idea what it even meant, nevermind the real policy implications. Take the black president out of it, and guess what? People suddenly like it and aren't spewing nonsense about "freedom."
Last edited by jetero on Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:02 pm

There are ideals and ideology and then there is serving constituents needs. Unfortunately the conservatives have veered into demagoguery the past few years (decade really) and been so focused on one thing that they couldn't really affect that they did not discuss within their own ranks to truly understand their own differences and goals.

An ideology is great but it cannot be the only thing you measure your needs, tasks, and successes by. There needs to be a balance between reality, what you must do to properly serve your constituents and what an ideology calls for. And that is what has been lacking in politics lately, balance. It is also apparently lacking within the Republican party itself.

And I have said it before, but the desired goal absolutely should not "single party rule" both parties should want to include the other in decisions and legislation and votes. However purity of ideology has been promoted as the highest and best thing. It is not.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
apodino
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:03 pm

I am sick and tired of people saying that they only reason that people want the law repealed was because it was a Black President who signed it into law. I see this point made over and over again, and it makes me sick to my stomach. My issue with the law has nothing to do with Obama being Black. Heck my issues with Obama had nothing to do with him being black. My issues with this law is that since this law went into effect, my premiums have gone up, my coverage has gotten worse, and my wife who is on more drugs than a CVS store carries, has had her drug prices go up. Not all of this is on the law, but a lot this happening as a result of the law. My friend who is a Liberal is even against the law now because she can not find full time work because of the law, and has to buy her own insurance as a result but cant get good coverage because of the premiums. The law is bad, but the swamp has such a handle on it now that we are stuck with it.

As for Obama himself, I think his heart was in the right place but his policies were just bad, and he surrounded himself with bad people. I had high hopes when he came into office that racism was dead in America and that he could unite the country. Unfortunately, an unwillingness to work with all but a few close people to him (I include Democrats and Republicans in that as he didn't even work well with Reid and Pelosi, let alone Republicans), as well some questionable decisions in office really hurt his administration.
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:15 pm

apodino wrote:
I am sick and tired of people saying that they only reason that people want the law repealed was because it was a Black President who signed it into law. I see this point made over and over again, and it makes me sick to my stomach. My issue with the law has nothing to do with Obama being Black. Heck my issues with Obama had nothing to do with him being black. My issues with this law is that since this law went into effect, my premiums have gone up, my coverage has gotten worse, and my wife who is on more drugs than a CVS store carries, has had her drug prices go up. Not all of this is on the law, but a lot this happening as a result of the law. My friend who is a Liberal is even against the law now because she can not find full time work because of the law, and has to buy her own insurance as a result but cant get good coverage because of the premiums. The law is bad, but the swamp has such a handle on it now that we are stuck with it.

As for Obama himself, I think his heart was in the right place but his policies were just bad, and he surrounded himself with bad people. I had high hopes when he came into office that racism was dead in America and that he could unite the country. Unfortunately, an unwillingness to work with all but a few close people to him (I include Democrats and Republicans in that as he didn't even work well with Reid and Pelosi, let alone Republicans), as well some questionable decisions in office really hurt his administration.


And do you seriously think premiums wouldn't have been going up (as they've been going up for years and years before), had it not been for Obamacare?

And you seriously think that if it had been repealed premiums would've gone down?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:25 pm

jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Ted Cruz predicts Congress will still repeal ObamaCare

"I believe this Congress will come back and in time we will honor our promises. You know senators are going to come home in the next few weeks," Cruz told reporters early Friday morning. "They're going to go home to their states, and they're going to face our their constituents and they're going to have hard questions."

"I believe we'll come back and we will honor our promise."


With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.



You vastly underestimate Cruz's base of support in his home state of Texas. You know he beat Trump in the Texas Primary, right??
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:33 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Ted Cruz predicts Congress will still repeal ObamaCare

"I believe this Congress will come back and in time we will honor our promises. You know senators are going to come home in the next few weeks," Cruz told reporters early Friday morning. "They're going to go home to their states, and they're going to face our their constituents and they're going to have hard questions."

"I believe we'll come back and we will honor our promise."


With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.



You vastly underestimate Cruz's popularity in his home state of Texas. You know he beat Trump in the Texas Primary, right??


Unfortunately, the a*sbag is my Senator so I'm all too familiar.

And in Texas we don't pay much attention to politics, so I'd say you're wrong if you truly think he's popular. Hopefully if people wake up and vote in 2018 we can send him back to the Addams Family Mansion and his wife back to the median of the MoPac Expressway. The guy's not a real Texan by any stretch of the imagination. Don't much agree with Cornyn most of the time either, but at least he's not a blowhard and has more than an ounce of pragmatism.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... o.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.inside ... erself/amp
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:54 am

jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
jetero wrote:

With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.



You vastly underestimate Cruz's popularity in his home state of Texas. You know he beat Trump in the Texas Primary, right??


Unfortunately, the a*sbag is my Senator so I'm all too familiar.

And in Texas we don't pay much attention to politics, so I'd say you're wrong if you truly think he's popular. Hopefully if people wake up and vote in 2018 we can send him back to the Addams Family Mansion and his wife back to the median of the MoPac Expressway. The guy's not a real Texan by any stretch of the imagination. Don't much agree with Cornyn most of the time either, but at least he's not a blowhard and has more than an ounce of pragmatism.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... o.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.inside ... erself/amp


Okay jetero, I've got you down as a No Vote for Ted's re-election.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:09 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

You vastly underestimate Cruz's popularity in his home state of Texas. You know he beat Trump in the Texas Primary, right??


Unfortunately, the a*sbag is my Senator so I'm all too familiar.

And in Texas we don't pay much attention to politics, so I'd say you're wrong if you truly think he's popular. Hopefully if people wake up and vote in 2018 we can send him back to the Addams Family Mansion and his wife back to the median of the MoPac Expressway. The guy's not a real Texan by any stretch of the imagination. Don't much agree with Cornyn most of the time either, but at least he's not a blowhard and has more than an ounce of pragmatism.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... o.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.inside ... erself/amp


Okay jetero, I've got you down as a No Vote for Ted's re-election.


Well at least your reading comprehension skills are light years ahead of SoCalGeo's. :thumbsup:
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:46 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
You vastly underestimate Cruz's base of support in his home state of Texas. You know he beat Trump in the Texas Primary, right??

1. Cruz won his Senate seat (well, the primary anyway) through a mix of strange coincidences. The Texas 2012 primaries were to be held on Super Tuesday before Texas moved to the end of the primary season. Of course, by then, Romney had sealed the nomination so going to vote in Texas was, for all intents and purposes, a waste of time. That depressed turnout allowed Cruz to keep the frontrunner, David Dewhurst, below the 50% margin needed for an outright win. The second round was later held at the end of July where people pretty much didn't even bother to vote (a depressed turnout of 200k less than in the first round). After winning the primary, Cruz's seat was his for the taking. It will be interesting to see a 2018 primary where Texans will vote in droves because it's primary day.
2. His numbers are currently underwater if we're to believe this [url=https://texaspolitics.utexas.edu/set/ted-cruz-job-approval-june-2017\]UT poll from June[/url]. While Republicans mostly approve of him, don't be surprised if a better Republican steps forward and gains momentum. Texas has an open primary so independents can swing the election one way or another.
3. Cruz winning Texas is the same as Clinton and Trump winning New York. If in a primary you lose your home state, then get out while you can. It's why Rubio called it quits when he lost Florida.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:17 am

alberchico wrote:
How much do you wanna bet that Alaska and Arizona are going to get their federal funds cut in retaliation ?

"... Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke had delivered a threat against Alaska energy development if Murkowski wouldn't reverse her opposition to the Republicans' repeal of the Affordable Care Act. [...] These kinds of political threats happen, but subtly. When they come out in the open, they backfire. [...] I have no doubt Murkowski was as furious as has been reported. But she didn't blab. She simply froze Interior nominations at the Energy and Natural Resources Committee she chairs — the committee that oversees Zinke's department.

Of course, her spokesperson said that move was unrelated. That's how this is supposed to be done."

https://www.adn.com/opinions/2017/07/29 ... ical-hero/

Welp, that didn't go anywhere :3

Tugger wrote:
And I have said it before, but the desired goal absolutely should not "single party rule" both parties should want to include the other in decisions and legislation and votes. However purity of ideology has been promoted as the highest and best thing. It is not.

The corruption in the state of Massachusetts is a great example of what single-party rule does. In that case, it's Democrats.
 
jetero
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:25 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
It's why Rubio called it quits when he lost Florida.


Yeah, that's right. Didn't he say through tears he was going to return to being a private citizen?

Poor guy.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36310765

I think I ended up disliking Little Marco more than Trump and Cruz.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:38 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
The corruption in the state of Massachusetts is a great example of what single-party rule does. In that case, it's Democrats.

Many blue states are currently split. The so-called trifecta (governorship and executive branch) is more dominant on the Republican side than on the Democrats. People like to say that blue states are all failing (pointing to NY and CA for high prices (though their economies are healthy) and IL and CT for budget issues (rightly so)), but let's not forget the many Southern states under complete Republican control (where Democrats in the minority are powerless to stop anything) and the cream of the crop with Kansas. Single party rule on either side is rough but people seem to love pointing to the other side for faults. In this case, Republicans hold more trifectas so it's easier to judge them on their efforts.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:18 am

I have to confess to a state of gleeful schadenfreude right now watching the GOP get its comeuppance. For seven straight years they have crowed and moaned about how terrible the ACA is, they have vowed to repeal it, and then, when they have majorities in both houses, control of the White House, and control of the Supreme Court, they can't get a repeal. The Obama administration and the DNC pulled off a masterpiece back in 2009, because it basically is like a Chinese finger trap. The more you try to get out of it, the more it tightens its grip.

But then, in an act of utter political bufoonery, the President has said that he and his party will try to steer the entire act into the ground. So when Americans go to sign up for their plans (as they are mandated to do) and find that they only have one option or that their premiums are exorbitant, they'll know exactly who to blame for it.

Now there's this whole Scaramucci farce, and the Donald Junior debacle, Preibus... It makes the GOP look really great.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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BobPatterson
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:14 am

DocLightning wrote:
I have to confess to a state of gleeful schadenfreude right now watching the GOP get its comeuppance. For seven straight years they have crowed and moaned about how terrible the ACA is, they have vowed to repeal it, and then, when they have majorities in both houses, control of the White House, and control of the Supreme Court, they can't get a repeal. The Obama administration and the DNC pulled off a masterpiece back in 2009, because it basically is like a Chinese finger trap. The more you try to get out of it, the more it tightens its grip.

But then, in an act of utter political bufoonery, the President has said that he and his party will try to steer the entire act into the ground. So when Americans go to sign up for their plans (as they are mandated to do) and find that they only have one option or that their premiums are exorbitant, they'll know exactly who to blame for it.

Now there's this whole Scaramucci farce, and the Donald Junior debacle, Preibus... It makes the GOP look really great.

You forgot to mention the President's ever more strident attacks on the do-nothing Republicans in Congress. That man really knows how to lose majorities.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
CPH-R
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:03 pm

Looks like the scramble in back on, this time with the Cassidy-Graham bill. McCain is leaning in favour of voting yes, but would depend on the Governor of Arizona's opinion of it, and Murkowski is as yet undecided.
 
Mir
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:57 pm

CPH-R wrote:
Looks like the scramble in back on, this time with the Cassidy-Graham bill. McCain is leaning in favour of voting yes, but would depend on the Governor of Arizona's opinion of it, and Murkowski is as yet undecided.


They're going to vote on it without a CBO score on what it would do to coverage, because who really needs to know how a healthcare bill is going to affect healthcare coverage before passing it? :sarcastic:

One thing we do know: it will allow insurers to raise premiums on people if they or their children get sick, which literally defeats the purpose of insurance. But hey, healthy people get to pay less, so if you're someone who will 100% never ever get sick, you'll do great with this bill (and if you do get sick it's probably your fault so pay up).
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:22 am

CPH-R wrote:
Looks like the scramble in back on, this time with the Cassidy-Graham bill. McCain is leaning in favour of voting yes, but would depend on the Governor of Arizona's opinion of it, and Murkowski is as yet undecided.

We know of three things here:
1. The Cassidy-Graham bill is merely a rehash of the previous bills, just spaced out further. A rose, by any other name. In such a case, Murkowski and Collins should be firm "No".
2. McCain voted "No" for the previous attempt mostly to make a point on bringing regular order back to the Senate. The fact that this bill is being rammed in the same manner makes me think that if McCain truly sticks to his principles, he should already be a "No". On the other hand, he HAS been known to "express concerns" before ultimately toeing the party line so his vote is definitely a tossup.
3. Rand Paul says he's a "No" vote because the bill is Obamacare Lite in his eyes. Of course, previous attempts were also "Obamacare Lite" and, as any Republican knows, it's better to stick it to Obama than let his legacy live on, even if the alternative is just a smaller version of the ACA or even worse. He says he's a "No", but I'm certain, when it comes down to it, he'll vote "Yes".

Once again, McCain is a swing vote. And it looks like Heller is going all in with this bill. Guess this is his last stand before November 2018 rolls around.

One other thing I find fascinating about Cassidy's logic for the bill: most of the Medicaid money goes to California, New York, Maryland, and Massachusetts, and in his eyes, that's not fair. Well...these four states have decided to expand Medicaid so naturally they'll get more money. But nooooo. The bill essentially penalizes expansion states by requiring them to either pony up the whole cost of expansion eventually or drop it altogether while giving grants to non-expansion states to be used how they deem fit. Talk about redistribution of wealth...
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6083
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:07 am

Mir wrote:
CPH-R wrote:
Looks like the scramble in back on, this time with the Cassidy-Graham bill. McCain is leaning in favour of voting yes, but would depend on the Governor of Arizona's opinion of it, and Murkowski is as yet undecided.


They're going to vote on it without a CBO score on what it would do to coverage, because who really needs to know how a healthcare bill is going to affect healthcare coverage before passing it? :sarcastic:

Not only that, but due to the way they're trying to pass it, they're down to 90 seconds of debating time on the bill. Yes, 90 seconds. On a bill that affects 1/6th of the US economy.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 5892
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:48 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:

One other thing I find fascinating about Cassidy's logic for the bill: most of the Medicaid money goes to California, New York, Maryland, and Massachusetts, and in his eyes, that's not fair. Well...these four states have decided to expand Medicaid so naturally they'll get more money. But nooooo. The bill essentially penalizes expansion states by requiring them to either pony up the whole cost of expansion eventually or drop it altogether while giving grants to non-expansion states to be used how they deem fit. Talk about redistribution of wealth...


This piece right here will never pass a court challenge. This bill is already dead, and the republicans are set to take the complete fall for health care as they have nothing better, and will not do the right thing to shore up the ACA.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 9449
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:51 pm

I'm one of those who are hoping that Senator McCain will yet again save the country, protecting the Average American.

If this bill does pass then the GOP will have one major problem: the abnormal cost increases will be hitting before the 2018 Election, hoping the Democrats. It will be even worse for the 2020 election. When the problems become obvious to the average voter it is going to be very difficult being a politician who actually voted for this abortion.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15965
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:58 pm

Don't worry--we're still able to spend about $700B on the military. And there's always prayer!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
Posts: 15697
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:37 am

casinterest wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:

One other thing I find fascinating about Cassidy's logic for the bill: most of the Medicaid money goes to California, New York, Maryland, and Massachusetts, and in his eyes, that's not fair. Well...these four states have decided to expand Medicaid so naturally they'll get more money. But nooooo. The bill essentially penalizes expansion states by requiring them to either pony up the whole cost of expansion eventually or drop it altogether while giving grants to non-expansion states to be used how they deem fit. Talk about redistribution of wealth...


This piece right here will never pass a court challenge. This bill is already dead, and the republicans are set to take the complete fall for health care as they have nothing better, and will not do the right thing to shore up the ACA.


Republicans, as a whole, will never ever do anything to help out ACA because it was introduced and supported by Democrats. For some reason, Republicans beg and plead for everyone to work with them but refuse to work with everyone else. To make ACA better, or even get Medicare for all, Democrats will have to have a majority in both houses of Congress AND the White House.

BTW:

Medicare For All is opposed by (wait for it....) pharmaceutical companies.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 10401
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:32 am

Ken777 wrote:
I'm one of those who are hoping that Senator McCain will yet again save the country, protecting the Average American.

If this bill does pass then the GOP will have one major problem: the abnormal cost increases will be hitting before the 2018 Election, hoping the Democrats. It will be even worse for the 2020 election. When the problems become obvious to the average voter it is going to be very difficult being a politician who actually voted for this abortion.


I so agree and hope that once again John McCain helps save the day as he did last time. Here is a man once again facing death, let us hope he has it in him one more time to act with bravery against those who would do us harm.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 5892
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Here is a rather detailed run down of the issues with Graham - Cassidy Trumpcare bill.

http://theweek.com/articles/725481/new- ... bill-worst

"All the moderate GOP senators whom Cassidy and Graham are ostensibly trying to woo come from states that would get screwed by their bill. Republican Sens. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine have been the two stalwart "no" votes to date. Alaska and Maine, respectively, would lose $255 million and $115 million annually by 2026. Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, another crucial "no" vote from the last go-around, would see his state lose $1.6 billion a year by 2026. The list goes on."

"As the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities put it, "beginning in 2027, Cassidy-Graham would be virtually identical to a repeal-without-replace bill — except for its additional Medicaid cuts.""


So there we have it folks. To ensure that the Republicans can follow through in their promise to repeal and replace, they will leave everyone in a worse state than prior to Obamacare.

If this thing passes, there will be hell to pay in the next election cycle .
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 4070
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:35 pm

They have shown that this is what they want, everybody worse off except the rich.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6083
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:42 pm

Chuck Grassley has completely lost the plot now. He admits the bill is poor, but says he has to vote for it because Republicans promised to repeal ACA:
Despite many evident shortcomings in a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act health care law, Republicans have a responsibility to pass it, U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley said Wednesday.

In a conference call with Iowa reporters, Grassley expressed support for the Graham-Cassidy health care reform proposal currently before the Senate, arguing that the GOP has pledged to repeal the law known as Obamacare and must seize any opportunity to do so.

“You know, I could maybe give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be considered,” Grassley said. “But Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign. That’s pretty much as much of a reason as the substance of the bill.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... 685674001/
 
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ER757
Posts: 2776
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:28 pm

CPH-R wrote:
Chuck Grassley has completely lost the plot now. He admits the bill is poor, but says he has to vote for it because Republicans promised to repeal ACA:
Despite many evident shortcomings in a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act health care law, Republicans have a responsibility to pass it, U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley said Wednesday.

In a conference call with Iowa reporters, Grassley expressed support for the Graham-Cassidy health care reform proposal currently before the Senate, arguing that the GOP has pledged to repeal the law known as Obamacare and must seize any opportunity to do so.

“You know, I could maybe give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be considered,” Grassley said. “But Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign. That’s pretty much as much of a reason as the substance of the bill.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... 685674001/

And people actually voted for this asshat.........oy veh
 
330west
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:40 pm

ER757 wrote:
CPH-R wrote:
Chuck Grassley has completely lost the plot now. He admits the bill is poor, but says he has to vote for it because Republicans promised to repeal ACA:
Despite many evident shortcomings in a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act health care law, Republicans have a responsibility to pass it, U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley said Wednesday.

In a conference call with Iowa reporters, Grassley expressed support for the Graham-Cassidy health care reform proposal currently before the Senate, arguing that the GOP has pledged to repeal the law known as Obamacare and must seize any opportunity to do so.

“You know, I could maybe give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be considered,” Grassley said. “But Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign. That’s pretty much as much of a reason as the substance of the bill.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/ ... 685674001/

And people actually voted for this asshat.........oy veh



To be fair, no one has ever accused Iowa of being an economic, cultural or intellectual powerhouse.
Always fly first class, otherwise your heirs will.
 
wingman
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:57 pm

The medium term upside being a complete GOP drubbing in the midterms and eventually something much leftier like single payer. These Repubs will be rubbing 20M peoples' faces in shit while Trump's co-tenants in the Tower rain laughter at them from their solid gold balconies. It wont end well for these scumabgs and part of me yearns to witness their ultimate defeat. I say fuck it, lets do this thing and then watch their repulsive money grab for the .01% blow up in their fat hanging jowls.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6083
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:22 am

In the eyerolling department, we now have Graham-Cassidy's plan for persuading Senator Murkowski to vote in favour of repealing ACA: Alaska gets to keep ACA :roll:

A Republican Senate aide told Independent Journal Review Thursday that Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Bill Cassidy (R-La.) are attempting to buy Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski's support through new changes to their controversial Obamacare repeal proposal before an expected vote next week.

According to the aide, here is a summary of what the new draft of the bill entails:

"This draft includes 3 separate provisions benefitting Alaska.

Alaska (along with Hawaii) will continue to receive Obamacare’s premium tax credits while they are repealed for all other states. It appears this exemption will not affect Alaska receiving its state allotment under the new block grant in addition to the premium tax credits.
Delays implementation of the Medicaid per capita caps for Alaska and Hawaii for years in which the policy would reduce their funding below what they would have received in 2020 plus CPI-M [Consumer Price Index for Medical Care].
Provides for an increased federal Medicaid matching rate (FMAP) for both Alaska and Hawaii."
The changes aren't final, and it remains to be seen whether they'll be enough to win Murkowski's vote.

http://ijr.com/2017/09/979983-republica ... care-bill/
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 5934
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Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:10 pm

GOP: "Democrats passed the ACA behind closed doors and rammed the bill through (even though the bill was passed in the second session of Congress after several hearings, amendments, and debate). We're angry because this showed poor leadership and it didn't earn our vote. Now please look away and ignore that we're doing it 10x worse. And we'll still blame Democrats for not cooperating in this vote that we don't want their input on anyway."
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:12 pm

jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Ted Cruz predicts Congress will still repeal ObamaCare

"I believe this Congress will come back and in time we will honor our promises. You know senators are going to come home in the next few weeks," Cruz told reporters early Friday morning. "They're going to go home to their states, and they're going to face our their constituents and they're going to have hard questions."

"I believe we'll come back and we will honor our promise."


With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.

Who're these guys talking to? If they're so damned interested in winning elections, why not bother looking at the damned polls? Do they have any inkling that a good portion of the country wants them to put up and shut up? The repeal Obamacare crap was nothing more than a vehicle for a lie for a bunch of people to funnel their irrational frustrations with a black president through, fed happily by Republican ideologues and know-nothings. Hell, for Paul Ryan it was a grand circle-jerk experiment to take something away, no matter what the costs! I'm sure the majority had no idea what it even meant, nevermind the real policy implications. Take the black president out of it, and guess what? People suddenly like it and aren't spewing nonsense about "freedom."


Oh here we Fng go. Yeah we all wanted Obamacare to go because a black president implemented it. How bout it was a sh*tstorm right out of the box. Like anything government tries to do it can't get it right. I will admit our health care system was jacked and it was in need of overhaul but with the exception of the keeping the kids insured a bit longer and pre existing conditions being covered I don't see too much good about it. My doctor even sold his practice to Methodist Health Group because he no longer could run his practice the way he needed to thanks to Obamacare. Now he is an hourly employee with minimal time spent with his patients Plus It certainly is anything but affordable. What good is saying now all these extra people have coverage when their deductibles are sky high. Also those of us who do have good insurance are getting screwed. Thankfully my employer is picking up the extra tab for the so called "Cadillac tax" but a lot of people who did have good coverage got it scaled back to a cheap plan because the employers didn't want to pay the tax. Also the individual mandate now I understand the premise that the heathy have to be in it to keep it funded for the not so healthy. But all that has really happened is that the healthy people just wound up paying the penalty instead of the extra cost of getting insurance. Not to mention forcing someone to buy something they don't want. So how about you liberals stop throwing the race card out there every time anyone disagrees with your views.
 
jetero
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:21 pm

stratosphere wrote:
jetero wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Ted Cruz predicts Congress will still repeal ObamaCare

"I believe this Congress will come back and in time we will honor our promises. You know senators are going to come home in the next few weeks," Cruz told reporters early Friday morning. "They're going to go home to their states, and they're going to face our their constituents and they're going to have hard questions."

"I believe we'll come back and we will honor our promise."


With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.

Who're these guys talking to? If they're so damned interested in winning elections, why not bother looking at the damned polls? Do they have any inkling that a good portion of the country wants them to put up and shut up? The repeal Obamacare crap was nothing more than a vehicle for a lie for a bunch of people to funnel their irrational frustrations with a black president through, fed happily by Republican ideologues and know-nothings. Hell, for Paul Ryan it was a grand circle-jerk experiment to take something away, no matter what the costs! I'm sure the majority had no idea what it even meant, nevermind the real policy implications. Take the black president out of it, and guess what? People suddenly like it and aren't spewing nonsense about "freedom."


Oh here we Fng go. Yeah we all wanted Obamacare to go because a black president implemented it. How bout it was a sh*tstorm right out of the box. Like anything government tries to do it can't get it right. I will admit our health care system was jacked and it was in need of overhaul but with the exception of the keeping the kids insured a bit longer and pre existing conditions being covered I don't see too much good about it. My doctor even sold his practice to Methodist Health Group because he no longer could run his practice the way he needed to thanks to Obamacare. Now he is an hourly employee with minimal time spent with his patients Plus It certainly is anything but affordable. What good is saying now all these extra people have coverage when their deductibles are sky high. Also those of us who do have good insurance are getting screwed. Thankfully my employer is picking up the extra tab for the so called "Cadillac tax" but a lot of people who did have good coverage got it scaled back to a cheap plan because the employers didn't want to pay the tax. Also the individual mandate now I understand the premise that the heathy have to be in it to keep it funded for the not so healthy. But all that has really happened is that the healthy people just wound up paying the penalty instead of the extra cost of getting insurance. Not to mention forcing someone to buy something they don't want. So how about you liberals stop throwing the race card out there every time anyone disagrees with your views.


Better do away with it all, then, I guess. Blow it all up!

I have noticed ZERO change in my insurance or my healthcare since Obamacare.

I really think a lot of people who argue otherwise are just making it all up.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Here Comes TrumpCare

Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:22 pm

jetero wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
jetero wrote:

With any luck, that self-important blowhard won't be around this time in 2019.

Who're these guys talking to? If they're so damned interested in winning elections, why not bother looking at the damned polls? Do they have any inkling that a good portion of the country wants them to put up and shut up? The repeal Obamacare crap was nothing more than a vehicle for a lie for a bunch of people to funnel their irrational frustrations with a black president through, fed happily by Republican ideologues and know-nothings. Hell, for Paul Ryan it was a grand circle-jerk experiment to take something away, no matter what the costs! I'm sure the majority had no idea what it even meant, nevermind the real policy implications. Take the black president out of it, and guess what? People suddenly like it and aren't spewing nonsense about "freedom."


Oh here we Fng go. Yeah we all wanted Obamacare to go because a black president implemented it. How bout it was a sh*tstorm right out of the box. Like anything government tries to do it can't get it right. I will admit our health care system was jacked and it was in need of overhaul but with the exception of the keeping the kids insured a bit longer and pre existing conditions being covered I don't see too much good about it. My doctor even sold his practice to Methodist Health Group because he no longer could run his practice the way he needed to thanks to Obamacare. Now he is an hourly employee with minimal time spent with his patients Plus It certainly is anything but affordable. What good is saying now all these extra people have coverage when their deductibles are sky high. Also those of us who do have good insurance are getting screwed. Thankfully my employer is picking up the extra tab for the so called "Cadillac tax" but a lot of people who did have good coverage got it scaled back to a cheap plan because the employers didn't want to pay the tax. Also the individual mandate now I understand the premise that the heathy have to be in it to keep it funded for the not so healthy. But all that has really happened is that the healthy people just wound up paying the penalty instead of the extra cost of getting insurance. Not to mention forcing someone to buy something they don't want. So how about you liberals stop throwing the race card out there every time anyone disagrees with your views.


Better do away with it all, then, I guess. Blow it all up!

I have noticed ZERO change in my insurance or my healthcare since Obamacare.

I really think a lot of people who argue otherwise are just making it all up.


Because you have had no change doesn't mean there hasn't been an effect. Maybe your employer is eating the extra cost. I didn't know my employer was doing that until we just had a meeting on open enrollment. Regardless I too would rather at this point repair what Obamacare screwed up rather than scrap it and reinvent the wheel. I agree with Rand Paul that this new version is just moving the deck chairs around for the sake of saying the repealed it. The republicans have the whole show now and I am not liking what I am seeing with them so far either.

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