UltimoTiger777 wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/class-and-race-are-never-an-excuse-to-gloat-over-state-atrocities/

Article about this young mans death pointing out how last year when he was arrested, some people thought it was schadenfreude and seemed to make an issue of him being a white, middle class student.

People in the US get routinely killed without a trial for "driving while black" so I'm not sure I can be upset by this.

I believe that for someone to not get extremely saddened let alone upset by these terrible news would have to be just a piece of excrement with broadband access.
Sadly there are a few of those around.

Aesma wrote:

UltimoTiger777 wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/class-and-race-are-never-an-excuse-to-gloat-over-state-atrocities/

Article about this young mans death pointing out how last year when he was arrested, some people thought it was schadenfreude and seemed to make an issue of him being a white, middle class student.

People in the US get routinely killed without a trial for "driving while black" so I'm not sure I can be upset by this.

Routinely!? That's an outright lie.

Aesma wrote:

UltimoTiger777 wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/class-and-race-are-never-an-excuse-to-gloat-over-state-atrocities/

Article about this young mans death pointing out how last year when he was arrested, some people thought it was schadenfreude and seemed to make an issue of him being a white, middle class student.

People in the US get routinely killed without a trial for "driving while black" so I'm not sure I can be upset by this.

You've just proven the articles point though.

jbflyguy84 wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

It's just hard for Americans to swallow this because NK is a lose cannon and no one knows for sure what little things can get you in trouble and what mood the cop that catches you may be in.

You've touched on an interesting point, and I think it is slightly different for Americans. I had a young guy (just about to enter college) who was a US Citizen and he was certainly treated differently to the rest of us (I am Australian). He was the only US Citizen on the tour actually.

I actually went with YPT, which is the company Warmbier went with, and now they have said they will stop taking Americans as they are the ones that are being watched most closely. They also have more restrictive entrance/exit requirements and can't visit certain parts of the country.

I will agree that now may not be the best time travel, particularly with Trump being as much of a loose cannon as Kim. Although I doubt nothing will happen, its Trump's mouth that will ruin it for most of us.

Kim is blowing up his family members with anti aircraft guns, poisoning his brother in the airport of another country, launching ICBM's and suffocating students to death, yet you're worried about "trumps mouth".

Sounds like you should go back. You've bought what the lunatic is selling, hook line and sinker.

People who visit North Korea and gush over it are boarder line perverse. How many of those people would choose to live like that given education and free will? It's practically a Zoo for humans.

VSMUT wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

What I think will probably happen is that the US will launch a massive number of non-nuke missiles to take out all North Korean missile launch facilities, supply depots, and all artillery having a range capable of reaching Seoul. Also air strikes to knock out all NK air activity.

Good luck with that, the North Koreans are like mole-rats. They could have several missile launch facilities that we don't know about. There is no guarantee that they could hit them all. Same goes for hidden artillery emplacements and supply depots, not to mention the futility of hitting moving targets with cruise-missiles.

You don't have to hit the facilities themselves. Just the communication hubs, NCO's manning the facilities don't have the authority to launch unilaterally. Iraq was the same way (both times).

Varsity1 wrote:

You don't have to hit the facilities themselves. Just the communication hubs, NCO's manning the facilities don't have the authority to launch unilaterally. Iraq was the same way (both times).

While true, that story has been spread all across the internet over the past 25 years. I am pretty sure North Korean intelligence would have picked up such a loudly advertised weakness a long time ago and implemented measures to prevent that from happening again. Old-man Kim paid a lot of attention to the US invasions of Iraq, it's probably the single biggest reason why they embarked on this nuclear project in the first place.

Varsity1 wrote:

Kim is blowing up his family members with anti aircraft guns, poisoning his brother in the airport of another country, launching ICBM's and suffocating students to death, yet you're worried about "trumps mouth".

Sounds like you should go back. You've bought what the lunatic is selling, hook line and sinker.

People who visit North Korea and gush over it are boarder line perverse. How many of those people would choose to live like that given education and free will? It's practically a Zoo for humans.

I never said its some kind of utopia that you are making out that I believe. The poverty is abysmal, the monuments are out of this world and the money poured into those could have certainly should have been spent better, but I was simply saying that media make it out to be something completely different, some true, most false, just to get a headline out there and Trump is a cause of this. his mouth is going to make things worse, not better, and not least for the average citizens on the ground. A child is running the country (for clarity, DPRK, not USA), and doesn't like to be told what to do and that is what Trump thinks he can do that.

I certainly wouldn't gush over it, but isn't this what travel is all about? Seeing different things and broadening ones horizon? Give me DPRK over sitting on some lame cookie cutter beach in the Caribbean... We are never going to agree on this topic, so I'll just leave this here for the moment.

VSMUT wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

You don't have to hit the facilities themselves. Just the communication hubs, NCO's manning the facilities don't have the authority to launch unilaterally. Iraq was the same way (both times).

While true, that story has been spread all across the internet over the past 25 years. I am pretty sure North Korean intelligence would have picked up such a loudly advertised weakness a long time ago and implemented measures to prevent that from happening again. Old-man Kim paid a lot of attention to the US invasions of Iraq, it's probably the single biggest reason why they embarked on this nuclear project in the first place.

Their project began under Grandaddy Kim in the 80's (maybe sensing that their reliance on the USSR might not be forever), as part of the 'Juche' self reliance policy. Which was a catastrophe which led to the mass famines. The nuclear project however carried on through all this, slowly.
But I agree it gained a lot more impetus with Daddy Kim after the fall of Saddam.

US President GW Bush having effectively threatened the DPRK in 'that speech' in 2002, then Iraq in 2003, both would have boosted the nuclear effort.
Bush also said he would not allow 'the world's worst regimes to get the world's worst weapons'. The first DPRK nuclear test was in 2006 in his term. A far more dangerous red line was crossed then than Assad has managed, yet oddly the former seems never to be brought up.
The reason being that there is that there is no easy answer to North Korea.

This is why, I suspect, many in South Korea are not as happy with the US as you think they might be, after all without US forces there the North would not have given up on re-uniting the two into one big gulag.
Even so, they are in the firing line, much of the population within artillery range. Easy to talk tough from 1000's of miles away (again).
Now of course with the DPRK looking for US ranged ICBM's it's a bit closer, in a limited way, to home.

My guess is that the DRPK are seeking a US ranged ICBM capability as a bargaining chip, including the US leaving South Korea.
After all, from their point of view, the US pledged to defend South Vietnam. How did that go?

P1aneMad wrote:

I believe that for someone to not get extremely saddened let alone upset by these terrible news would have to be just a piece of excrement with broadband access.
Sadly there are a few of those around.

When stories get so much push from the press real facts and backstory usually get muted out by agenda.
Same when they mention kids in scope of such articles. Not that kids are not endangered.
But nonetheless they only get mentioned when someone wants to push some hidden agenda
while pushing created to order "facts" in a rather tainted manner.

Remember the "incubator lie" pushed to successfully prepare the US public to accept entering the Gulf War ( II )?

WIederling wrote:

P1aneMad wrote:

I believe that for someone to not get extremely saddened let alone upset by these terrible news would have to be just a piece of excrement with broadband access.
Sadly there are a few of those around.

When stories get so much push from the press real facts and backstory usually get muted out by agenda.
Same when they mention kids in scope of such articles. Not that kids are not endangered.
But nonetheless they only get mentioned when someone wants to push some hidden agenda
while pushing created to order "facts" in a rather tainted manner.

Remember the "incubator lie" pushed to successfully prepare the US public to accept entering the Gulf War ( II )?

When reality does not agree with your ideology do not argue with reality, try instead to re-examine your views.

And please, leave the poor cat out of it!

P1aneMad wrote:

....

I think you can now return to worshiping Fox News

WIederling wrote:

P1aneMad wrote:

....

I think you can now return to worshiping Fox News

Nope, that is for people like you. And infowars and all that conspiracy shit.
Me I prefer not to argue with reality and not to dance on some poor kid's grave blinded by ideological hatred.

P1aneMad wrote:

WIederling wrote:

P1aneMad wrote:

....

I think you can now return to worshiping Fox News

Nope, that is for people like you. And infowars and all that conspiracy shit.

You may not have noticed at the time ( or later ):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_%28testimony%29

Me I prefer not to argue with reality and not to dance on some poor kid's grave blinded by ideological hatred.

Nobody dances.
It is naive to assume that sufficiently balanced information is available.

Finally there is a trend to "wag the dog".

Dogma is $poor_american_soul is a hero bathed in innocence.
The story is expanded from there.
Same goes for soldiers. Because they are defined as HERO
their deeds must be worthy to no end. No fail possible.
( what they really did was probably shooting some kids and/or grandma.)

You have issues that need professional assistance!

P1aneMad wrote:

You have issues that need professional assistance!

Sure, a date with my dentist is coming up next week.

Just make sure he drills deep enough to relieve some pressure of your brain.