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salttee
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The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:52 am

The recent broohaha about Trump wanting to fire Robert Muller has brought to light the focus of the Muller investigation and why Trump appears to be troubled to the edge of irrationality over it. One of the more interesting things that I have run across in reading about this subject is the premise that the associates Mr. Muller been hiring are seen by Trump as his enemies.

Today the news comes out that Muller is looking into the intelligence community:

Mr. Mueller wants to question Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence; Adm. Michael S. Rogers, the head of the National Security Agency; and Richard Ledgett, the former N.S.A. deputy director.

So here's where it gives us a path to an almost likely scenario which would be that:

The White House could try to assert executive privilege to keep the intelligence officials from discussing conversations between them and the president with Mr. Mueller. But that could set up a fight in court, where judges have generally held that criminal investigators can demand information that would normally be privileged.

That sounds like a sure thing to me; Trump will try to stop such an investigation into the intelligence community.
As pointed out above: the courts will rule against Trump and will allow Muller access to Coats, Rodgers and Ledgett.
The next logical step would be for Trump to go off the rails.

Because:

A former senior official said Mr. Mueller’s investigation was looking at money laundering by Trump associates. The suspicion is that any cooperation with Russian officials would most likely have been in exchange for some kind of financial payoff, and that there would have been an effort to hide the payments, probably by routing them through offshore banking centers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/p ... ation.html
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:27 am

I think it's time for a follow-up to "House of Cards". How about "Can of Worms"? :smile:
 
salttee
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:50 am

Remember Carter Page and that 19% stake in Rosneft he was supposed to get if Trump was able to remove the sanctions?
Then the later revealed story about a 19.5% stake in Rosneft disappearing into the void when the bulk of Rosneft securities changed hands?

The stake was sold for 10.2 billion euros to a Singapore investment vehicle that Rosneft said was a 50/50 joint venture between Qatar and an Anglo–Swiss multinational commodity trading and mining company with headquarters in Baar, Switzerland (Glencore).

So now Muller is going to attempt to put the pieces of this story together. Or so it seems.

Money Laundering indeed!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:02 am

salttee wrote:
Money Laundering indeed!


This would be a lot more than money laundering... This would be a proof that the Trump campaign did indeed collude with Russia.

As usual in these cases, all they have to do is follow the money.

Let's see if they can bring the tie all the way up to Trump... if the obstruction of justice charges don't get him first.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
salttee
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:29 am

Francoflier wrote:
Let's see if they can bring the tie all the way up to Trump... if the obstruction of justice charges don't get him first.

One way or the other, Trump is going to go down over this.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:52 am

salttee wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Let's see if they can bring the tie all the way up to Trump... if the obstruction of justice charges don't get him first.

One way or the other, Trump is going to go down over this.

I don't know if this will take Trump down but I'm 100% certain he is so stupid that whatever does take him down will be entirely self inflicted
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:31 am

The basic problem with Mr. Trump is that he has no ethics, and knows no responsibility.

Any ethical and responsible person is able to look at a matter from a neutral, outside perspective. What's good for me is good for everybody... and it's clear that a powerful person who knows no such ethics will end up dangling in several laws.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:54 am

Francoflier wrote:
salttee wrote:
Money Laundering indeed!


This would be a lot more than money laundering... This would be a proof that the Trump campaign did indeed collude with Russia.

As usual in these cases, all they have to do is follow the money.

Let's see if they can bring the tie all the way up to Trump... if the obstruction of justice charges don't get him first.


So that's the way Trump actually wants to be worth 10bn :D
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flyingturtle
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:00 am

Dutchy wrote:
So that's the way Trump actually wants to be worth 10bn :D


When Trump testifies under oath, I hope somebody asks about his wealth. :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:21 am

flyingturtle wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
So that's the way Trump actually wants to be worth 10bn :D


When Trump testifies under oath, I hope somebody asks about his wealth. :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:


David


They already did...... He sued some because he said Trump wasn't worth 10bn, the court case was brilliant (he lost obviously). :D

Everything is hilarious, your question is answered at 9:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:29 am

Dutchy wrote:
Everything is hilarious, your question is answered at 9:30


Yeah, that's hilarious - and I'm religiously watching John Oliver! :highfive:

But the court case stated that it was reasonable to claim Trump's wealth was 250 million, but it still doesn't give information about what Trump really is worth. My assumption is $0.25. But as a plaintiff or defendant, you aren't strictly obligated to tell the truth - only when called as a witness. That's one reason why Trump testifying would be hilarious, and the TV event of the decade.

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:38 am

flyingturtle wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Everything is hilarious, your question is answered at 9:30


Yeah, that's hilarious - and I'm religiously watching John Oliver! :highfive:

But the court case stated that it was reasonable to claim Trump's wealth was 250 million, but it still doesn't give information about what Trump really is worth. My assumption is $0.25. But as a plaintiff or defendant, you aren't strictly obligated to tell the truth - only when called as a witness. That's one reason why Trump testifying would be hilarious, and the TV event of the decade.

David


That depends whom you ask, I think some have put it at 3bn or something.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ltbewr
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:03 am

From some news reports late Friday, the shift of the investigations by Muller to include Pres. Trump happened after the firing of Comey. This may tie in with the rumors of Trump or of stories put out by extremist right wing media like Infowars of Muller being fired.

Many, and I concur, believe that the real issues for Trump is over loans, other financing and sales of condo and other properties with foreign, and in particular Russian oligarchs. Those Russians and the Russian Government want to launder their money, the USA pushed financial and other sanctions lifted, the USA to reduce their influence in the expansion of NATO or even reduce the number of NATO members of countries bordering Russia. Trump may not be directly involved in Russia's USA elections interference issues, indeed others might take the fall for Trump as Trump arranged some dealings at arms length to keep plausible deniability.

Hopefully the tax returns and other financial info of Trump and his family's businesses will be exposed in this and related investigations or even by some hackers. It is likely they will show the compromised financial situation of Trump and that he cannot continue to serve as President as has serious violations of the Enrollments Clause of the Constitution that can be an Impeachable offense or at the best as with Nixon, to force him to resign.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:00 pm

That moment when we're repeating what candidate Trump insisted on during the campaign.

Marco Rubio speaks the truth. Think of the trauma caused to the country by having a president investigated by the FBI.

Major plot twist: IOKIYAR
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jetwet1
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:48 pm

salttee wrote:


Today the news comes out that Muller is looking into the intelligence community:

Mr. Mueller wants to question Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence; Adm. Michael S. Rogers, the head of the National Security Agency; and Richard Ledgett, the former N.S.A. deputy director.



I wouldn't be so certain that Mr Muller is looking into the intelligence community, I would say it is more like Mr Muller is trying to find out what they know and are they willing to tell.

trump attacked the FBI, CIA and NSA early on, I think, not understanding 100% of the losing fight he was getting himself into, I would say that for a while now there has been parts of each organization looking Trump and digging for whatever they can find.

Francoflier wrote:

Let's see if they can bring the tie all the way up to Trump... if the obstruction of justice charges don't get him first.


Obstruction of justice won't bring him down even if it goes very far, impeaching a sitting President for obstruction is not easy.

MaverickM11 wrote:
I don't know if this will take Trump down but I'm 100% certain he is so stupid that whatever does take him down will be entirely self inflicted


Yep, his tendency to say whatever is on his mind will jackpot him at some point.

ltbewr wrote:
From some news reports late Friday, the shift of the investigations by Muller to include Pres. Trump happened after the firing of Comey. This may tie in with the rumors of Trump or of stories put out by extremist right wing media like Infowars of Muller being fired.

.


Not going to happen, when the rumors started flying around Tuesday morning, Republican leadership made it clear that if Trump fired Muller, they would immediately set up an independent investigation headed by....Muller....That was the parties way of letting Trump know that he has to deal with what is happening and letting the intelligence community know that they want no part of this pissing contest.

ltbewr wrote:

Many, and I concur, believe that the real issues for Trump is over loans, other financing and sales of condo and other properties with foreign, and in particular Russian oligarchs. Those Russians and the Russian Government want to launder their money, the USA pushed financial and other sanctions lifted, the USA to reduce their influence in the expansion of NATO or even reduce the number of NATO members of countries bordering Russia. Trump may not be directly involved in Russia's USA elections interference issues, indeed others might take the fall for Trump as Trump arranged some dealings at arms length to keep plausible deniability.


I tend to agree on parts, time will tell, but I have to wonder if Trump was not facing a liquidity crunch, meaning not enough cash to finance his operations. A lot of what he has been doing so far has poured millions of dollars into the Trump organization.

Laundering large amounts of money through the Trump organization is maybe reaching to far, FinCEN has no issues auditing any company, or person if they even catch a whiff of money laundering, let alone on the scale you are describing.


Trump is not a stupid man, but there are times he makes really bad judgment calls, in the past he has been able to BS his way out of things, or just pay the fines and bury it, I really don't think he thought through the whole process and how he and his companies dealings will come under the microscope.

However, I also have to wonder, does Trump want this over and done with quickly, facing mid terms next year, impeachment by a Republican congress isn't going to happen (unless something extraordinary comes out), with a Dem congress (assuming they win enough seats) who knows.
 
bmacleod
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:59 pm

How about real solid links to Nixon's actions in 1973?

- Oct 1973 Nixon fired special prosecutor Archibald Cox in so-called "Saturday Night Massacre"

Besides James Comey and Sally Yates, there are reports Trump was thinking into firing Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

However unless a "smoking gun" is found - tapes or recordings in Trump's Oval Office - impeachment proceedings are going to be a hard sell.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
jetero
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:40 pm

ltbewr wrote:
From some news reports late Friday, the shift of the investigations by Muller to include Pres. Trump happened after the firing of Comey. This may tie in with the rumors of Trump or of stories put out by extremist right wing media like Infowars of Muller being fired.


Mueller was appointed after Comey's firing.

salttee wrote:
Remember Carter Page and that 19% stake in Rosneft he was supposed to get if Trump was able to remove the sanctions?
Then the later revealed story about a 19.5% stake in Rosneft disappearing into the void when the bulk of Rosneft securities changed hands?

The stake was sold for 10.2 billion euros to a Singapore investment vehicle that Rosneft said was a 50/50 joint venture between Qatar and an Anglo–Swiss multinational commodity trading and mining company with headquarters in Baar, Switzerland (Glencore).

So now Muller is going to attempt to put the pieces of this story together. Or so it seems.

Money Laundering indeed!


I suspect it will come down to something like this and nothing to do with the elections. The Russian government probably lobbied Trump surrogates strongly for the removal of sanctions once they took office (completely rational by Russia). Some of the more shady folks associated with the campaign likely made deals from which they would benefit financially as a result of the sanctions being lifted. Because of Trump's inability to take the higher ground and let things run their course, it's going to end up being a much bigger deal than it otherwise would have been. And this lobbying by Russia will be linked with the election interference, and even if Trump's campaign wasn't involved in the election interference, the two will be linked as some sort of quid pro quo.

(Aside: I really don't understand how his supporters don't acknowledge his behavior--his inability to take any high ground or to apologize--as a tremendous weakness other than it mirrors the anger and resentment that they have, which I also don't understand. I was an Obama supporter and could readily acknowledge that his aloofness and refusal to engage was not doing him any favors.)
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:50 pm

Why wouldn't Mueller look into obstruction of justice angle? That horse left the barn the day special prosecutor was appointed.

This is breaking news because CNN need something bigger than GOP shooting incident.
 
jetero
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:58 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
This is breaking news because CNN need something bigger than GOP shooting incident.


Um, OK. There goes that damned media again.

jetero wrote:
(Aside: I really don't understand how his supporters don't acknowledge his behavior--his inability to take any high ground or to apologize--as a tremendous weakness other than it mirrors the anger and resentment that they have, which I also don't understand. I was an Obama supporter and could readily acknowledge that his aloofness and refusal to engage was not doing him any favors.)


On that note, I just read this AM's tweets. Good Lord.

They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice

and

You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people! #MAGA
 
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OA412
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:33 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Let's see if they can bring the tie all the way up to Trump... if the obstruction of justice charges don't get him first.

One way or the other, Trump is going to go down over this.

I don't know if this will take Trump down but I'm 100% certain he is so stupid that whatever does take him down will be entirely self inflicted

This! The man is his own worst enemy. He's too self-absorbed and too stupid to not be the cause of his own demise. He's easily the least intelligent president in recent memory.
flyingturtle wrote:
The basic problem with Mr. Trump is that he has no ethics, and knows no responsibility.

Also this. Many prominent law firms have refused to represent him because he's unable and/or unwilling to keep his mouth shut. You have to be about as unethical as him to continue to represent him with all we now know. Everything I've read and seen of his attorneys suggest they are the bottom of the barrel in terms of personal ethics.
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bhill
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:36 pm

Well, with his bankruptcies and having trouble getting financing from US banks, I sure hope his 1040's get subpoenaed. And we will prolly find out his love for all things Russian....
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wingman
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
This is breaking news because CNN need something bigger than GOP shooting incident.


Are you the guy who claims to have two AI degrees? I really can't see how you're trained in anything remotely connected to scientific theory. I might be mixing people up because the statement above is simply too devoid of rational thought for anyone that made it past pre-school.

If you really are that guy I guess you can take solace in the fact that Fox has the story buried in the classifieds section. And I get it because Presidents being investigated for obstruction of justice is some very routine shit. Happens in every administration.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:44 pm

wingman wrote:
Are you the guy who claims to have two AI degrees? I really can't see how you're trained in anything remotely connected to scientific theory. I might be mixing people up because the statement above is simply too devoid of rational thought for anyone that made it past pre-school.

If you really are that guy I guess you can take solace in the fact that Fox has the story buried in the classifieds section. And I get it because Presidents being investigated for obstruction of justice is some very routine shit. Happens in every administration.


So asking why CNN behaving like Fox News and liberal elites behaving like hill billies wrong? What is the purpose of Ivy League education?

Yesterday by noon CNN headline is back to "WP:Mueller Investigating Trump for possible obstruction of justice". That is so wrong.

Special Prosecutor has no set limits, Mueller will investigate what ever is necessary to get to the bottom. Every day there need not be a leak followed by CNN breaking news.

BTW, AI has no place for emotions, just unadulterated logical reasoning.
 
salttee
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
So asking why CNN behaving like Fox News and liberal elites behaving like hill billies wrong?

If you were a detail oriented person you would recognize that the story about Muller wanting to interview Rodgers et al came from the Washington Post and that the source cited in the OP was the NYT. CNN has had no part in this conversation so far.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Yesterday by noon CNN headline is back to "WP:Mueller Investigating Trump for possible obstruction of justice". That is so wrong.

So your idea of nonbiased coverage is to completely ignore anything going on in the world because a congressman got shot? Seems reminiscent of the days of MH370 when CNN tuned into it for hours "waiting for the information that would be released by Malaysian authorities and went well into the next day".

Fact is: a congressman got shot, he's in critical condition, and until doctors come out with more information that's all we know. Tuning in for 24/7 coverage on this event is not gonna help him recover nor solve any issue (as evidenced by the thread that got shut down). Yes, it's tragic. Yes, it means we as a country need to have a serious discussion about how radicalized people become because of politics (let's not pretend a Republican wouldn't have done the same thing if they could...it's a miracle Obama never had an assassination attempt from someone in this country with all the hateful comments about him). But let's not use that to tune out of much bigger issues. When the time comes, Congressman Scalise will either recover and come back to the House (and kick off a very meaningful debate) or will die (and start a discussion as well).

Furthermore, this is a thread related to the investigation of Trump, which is also pretty serious. One less Congressman in action (and by this I mean in any aspect: incapacity, resignation, death, etc.) doesn't affect government that much right now; the decisions made by Trump and company are, to me, more serious, especially if he's president through means of collusion.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Okie
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:26 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Furthermore, this is a thread related to the investigation of Trump, which is also pretty serious. One less Congressman in action (and by this I mean in any aspect: incapacity, resignation, death, etc.) doesn't affect government that much right now; the decisions made by Trump and company are, to me, more serious, especially if he's president through means of collusion.


And today Putin offers Comey asylum in Russia. How the hell do you top that?
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Okie
 
wingman
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:46 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
BTW, AI has no place for emotions, just unadulterated logical reasoning.

I know that, and I know that you don't have reasoning of any kind, adulterated or unadulterated. So hence why I keep questioning these degrees of yours.

For example, investigating a president for obstruction of justice is very, very, very big and significant news. It is a rare occurrence in our nation's history. And yet you suggest that a news organization would only report on such a story as one of its leads for the day in order to diminish a story about a mass shooting, an event which occurs at least monthly in this country.

I ask you to apply your learnings in AI and show us how you arrived at such a conclusion so devoid of logical reasoning. Below you hint that you have AI degrees from an Ivy League institution. I'm sorry but I think you're either a liar or you didn't pay any attention in class. You write as if you don't even get basic business rules.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:06 pm

wingman wrote:
For example, investigating a president for obstruction of justice is very, very, very big and significant news.


Only if the balance part of the check and balance system isn't doing its job, then nothing will happen
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:15 pm

wingman wrote:
..For example, investigating a president for obstruction of justice is very, very, very big and significant news. It is a rare occurrence in our nation's history. And yet you suggest that a news organization would only report on such a story as one of its leads for the day in order to diminish a story about a mass shooting, an event which occurs at least monthly in this country.
.


Either you are completely wrong on your assessment of the situation or misunderstood my statement.

Trump, Russia, Collusion, Obstruction of justice and Impeachment will go on until Trump is President. What was the rush to be back on this in couple of hours?

Bill Clinton was tried for perjury and obstruction of justice.

If HRC was elected, Republicans would be trying her for Bengazi and/or E-Mail server.

I don't see an end to this stalemate. My expectation was democrats will follow their slogan "When they go low we go high" and work with elected president, rather they decided to be partisan for entire Trump term. I guess that was just a slogan.
 
salttee
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:54 pm

Okie wrote:
And today Putin offers Comey asylum in Russia. How the hell do you top that?

If you're a person with a great interest in Putin's bullshit, I guess that's hard to top.

For the rest of us it's just some more of Putin's bullshit.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:04 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
My expectation was democrats will follow their slogan "When they go low we go high" and work with elected president, rather they decided to be partisan for entire Trump term.


What do the words work with elected President mean to you?

1. Just go along with the President's program?

2. Sitting down and negotiating with a President who offers to negotiate?

3. Something Else? _______________________________________________
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:49 am

BobPatterson wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
My expectation was democrats will follow their slogan "When they go low we go high" and work with elected president, rather they decided to be partisan for entire Trump term.


What do the words work with elected President mean to you?

1. Just go along with the President's program?

2. Sitting down and negotiating with a President who offers to negotiate?

3. Something Else? _______________________________________________


Option #2 or even Chuck Shumer/Nancy Pelosi can bring his own proposals. For example the House AHCA was just a Saving Paul Ryan bill, now that Trump is on record calling it "mean" Democrats can bring their own suggestions to fix Obamacare. If Obama and Reid were as bold as Pelosi, ACA would have been much better.

BTW, I am not suggesting to cut any deal with Trump on Russia, let it go in parallel,

If both parties in both branches just want to continue to focus on investing each other, may be country should outsource the regular business to lowest bidder.
 
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seahawk
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:04 am

It is the deep state vs. the president. Trump wants to clean the swamp in Washington and the alligators are fighting back.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:25 am

seahawk wrote:
It is the deep state vs. the president. Trump wants to clean the swamp in Washington and the alligators are fighting back.


Interesting vote in the Senate, 97-2, to block Mr. Trump from easing sanctions against Russia.

To me, this is a sure sign that when Mr. Trump is proven to have broken the laws and his oath of office, there will be no problem in impeaching him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... 84438b542d
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:42 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
This is breaking news because CNN need something bigger than GOP shooting incident.


This was what? Shooting 175 this year or so? Not many victims. If it hadn´t been the GOP team it would only have made local news and only made it nation wide on a really, really slow newsday.

Even Trump doesn´t manage one scandal per day, so regardless of what it is this time, it is bigger news than a shooting.

best regards
Thomas
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Mir
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:53 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
I don't see an end to this stalemate. My expectation was democrats will follow their slogan "When they go low we go high" and work with elected president, rather they decided to be partisan for entire Trump term. I guess that was just a slogan.


If Trump had been interested in working with them, they might have taken him up on it. But Trump isn't really interested in actual work, so it didn't happen. That's on Trump, not the Democrats.
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BobPatterson
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:10 am

tommy1808 wrote:
If it hadn´t been the GOP team it would only have made local news and only made it nation wide on a really, really slow newsday.


Absolute nonsense. It was an attack on all of us, and big news.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:45 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Option #2 or even Chuck Shumer/Nancy Pelosi can bring his own proposals. For example the House AHCA was just a Saving Paul Ryan bill, now that Trump is on record calling it "mean" Democrats can bring their own suggestions to fix Obamacare. If Obama and Reid were as bold as Pelosi, ACA would have been much better.


Oh, of course... Work with the Republicans...

Except the Republicans and Trump have been saying from day 1 that they want to repeal the ACA, and nothing else. So a proposal from the Democrats to fix it, even if the Republicans were inclined to listen (which they are not) would not do.

But then the Republicans have shown their true colors when, after so many years of screaming at Obamacare, they were given the reigns only to hastily produce and forcefully ram through congress one of the poorest, meanest and least popular bills ever written.
And now, Republicans in the senate are drafting up a final bill, presumably based on that one, in complete secrecy, with no hearings or consultation whatsoever, despite calls from democrats to be included in the process. The excuses coming from republican senators for what has to be one of the most blatantly and viciously partisan move ever, is something to the tune of: "we're not stupid"... which leaves one assuming that the bill is so horrible that it would create a massive backlash if it were revealed early.
Even Obamacare, which the GOP protested so much about being hastily and forcefully passed, only came to be after a multitude of public hearings.

So basically, the GOP healthcare plan is being drafted in secret by a small group of GOP senators, with no hearings or public consultation and while completely ignoring the democrats, into something which will be voted through by 50+1 votes, will be vastly unpopular and will cost millions of Americans their healthcare coverage...
The reason for keeping it secret is obviously to hide a bill so damaging and unpopular that constituents would be calling their senators to not vote for it. And the GOP can only afford to lose 2 republican votes in the senate to pass the bill. this is simply sickening (no bad pun intended).

So, yeah... Why DON'T the democrats try to work with the republicans... I wonder.

:scratchchin:
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6391
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:15 am

BobPatterson wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
If it hadn´t been the GOP team it would only have made local news and only made it nation wide on a really, really slow newsday.


Absolute nonsense.


right.... how many dead and injured? How many of the other shootings had more and where less reported? But right, this time it concerns republicans, so obviously it is bigger news than a bunch of black kids or gays being shot and certainly a bigger story than a traitor in the white house....

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 5497
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:20 am

tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
If it hadn´t been the GOP team it would only have made local news and only made it nation wide on a really, really slow newsday.


Absolute nonsense.


right.... how many dead and injured? How many of the other shootings had more and where less reported? But right, this time it concerns republicans, so obviously it is bigger news than a bunch of black kids or gays being shot and certainly a bigger story than a traitor in the white house....

best regards
Thomas


Sure it is different because it is a political figure and therefore it as attack on all values that the Republican party represents. It is an attack of the liberal left on the core values of the USA.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:51 am

seahawk wrote:
It is the deep state vs. the president. Trump wants to clean the swamp in Washington and the alligators are fighting back.


Trump is the headmaster of the swamp....
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:52 am

seahawk wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:

Absolute nonsense.


right.... how many dead and injured? How many of the other shootings had more and where less reported? But right, this time it concerns republicans, so obviously it is bigger news than a bunch of black kids or gays being shot and certainly a bigger story than a traitor in the white house....

best regards
Thomas


Sure it is different because it is a political figure and therefore it as attack on all values that the Republican party represents. It is an attack of the liberal left on the core values of the USA.


The Republican party right now represents nothing but greed, corruption and collusion with Russia in order to get Orange Julius elected. The party is stained for generations now. It must be taken down and rebuilt. St. Ronnie is probably turning in his grave right now.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 4777
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:37 am

Francoflier wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Option #2 or even Chuck Shumer/Nancy Pelosi can bring his own proposals. For example the House AHCA was just a Saving Paul Ryan bill, now that Trump is on record calling it "mean" Democrats can bring their own suggestions to fix Obamacare. If Obama and Reid were as bold as Pelosi, ACA would have been much better.


Oh, of course... Work with the Republicans...


I never said to work with the Republicans, I said work with Trump. Trump is not a Republican in any sense.

Repeal & Replace is history, Repair or Refurbish is the only option left. If Schumer/Pelosi can bring a decent proposal along with all democratic senate/house votes, Trump will bring enough Republican votes in senate/house to push it thru.

Every one claim victory.

But why waste time on regular business, read NYT/WP or watch CNN breaking news and throw tantrum whole day.

BTW, we need another thread for "WP: Mueller investigating Kushner's finances"
 
aviationaware
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 am

Mueller was appointed to investigate the Russia thing. Nothing more, nothing less. His expanding the investigation to Trump for something entirely different is a gross transgression of his authority; he should consequently be fired and be replaced with a special counsel that's not in with the deep state game.

CaliAtenza wrote:
The Democratic party right now represents nothing but greed, corruption and collusion with Hillary in order to get Crooked Hillary elected. The party is stained for generations now. It must be taken down and rebuilt. FDR is probably turning in his grave right now.


Fixed that for you.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:52 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Mueller was appointed to investigate the Russia thing. Nothing more, nothing less. His expanding the investigation to Trump for something entirely different


by attempting to obstuct that investigation, he automatically becomes a subject of that investigation, so it isn´t

a gross transgression of his authority;


, it is simply him doing his job. Getting to the bottom of the "Russia" thing automatically includes probes into possible treason by US citizens.

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
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mbmbos
Posts: 2665
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:05 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Mueller was appointed to investigate the Russia thing. Nothing more, nothing less. His expanding the investigation to Trump for something entirely different is a gross transgression of his authority; he should consequently be fired and be replaced with a special counsel that's not in with the deep state game..


Mueller is well within the scope of the investigation as it was defined. The Justice department gave him fairly wide berth for his investigation, which is the norm. It is broad enough to ensure he can investigate multiple paths that may inform the primary investigation. If he finds wrongdoing along the way, he is entitled, ne, obligated to report it.

As far as the "deep state" goes, there is no such thing. This is a branded term thought up by a K Street think tank, nothing more. You can find any number of fictional, nefarious, conspiratorial shadow governments dreamt by the paranoid over the past many years. "Trilateral Commission" comes to mind.

So, feel free to carry on with your Republican talking point. Feel free to smear Mueller. But it won't amount to much.

Trump is cooked.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6391
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:15 pm

mbmbos wrote:
As far as the "deep state" goes, there is no such thing. This is a branded term thought up by a K Street think tank, nothing more. You can find any number of fictional, nefarious, conspiratorial shadow governments dreamt by the paranoid over the past many years. "Trilateral Commission" comes to mind.


Just wait... you will see how Obama will declare martial law, have all guns confiscated and put people that speak up in FEMA concentration camps! The deep state is just as real....

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
jetero
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:01 pm

seahawk wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:

Absolute nonsense.


right.... how many dead and injured? How many of the other shootings had more and where less reported? But right, this time it concerns republicans, so obviously it is bigger news than a bunch of black kids or gays being shot and certainly a bigger story than a traitor in the white house....

best regards
Thomas


Sure it is different because it is a political figure and therefore it as attack on all values that the Republican party represents. It is an attack of the liberal left on the core values of the USA.


GD it, I've been a registered bleeding heart for 30 years and I'm consistently left off of these conspiratorial coordination memos.

Mr Hawk, do you think that only Republicans can represent the "core values" of the USA? Do you think that each party can have different perceptions of what the U.S.'s "core values" are? I'd say even being able to acknowledge that is a "core value," given the country's history and the Constitution.
 
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Francoflier
Posts: 4209
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Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:43 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
But why waste time on regular business, read NYT/WP or watch CNN breaking news and throw tantrum whole day.


Funny, you accurately described Trump's behavior.

The multitude of reports leaking from the WH from aides and staff is simply fascinating.

Trump is essentially spending half the day gorging obsessively on cable news, only to lash out randomly on twitter to vent his anger.
He has become completely consumed by the Russian affair. He is described as unstable, prone to fits of rage, and unable to carry out his job.
His lawyers are apparently unable to keep him from making rash public statements, most of which only end up worsening things for him.
He shows all the signs of mental instability and manic depression.

The picture coming out is that of a cornered raccoon.

Not that this would surprise anyone who knew already the kind of person Trump was before he ran for office. It was plain for anyone to see if one had delved into the character a little bit.

On the other side of the equation, the evidence continues to amass against Trump and his clique, and, if you ask me, I have no doubt that Mueller will get to the bottom of the whole affair, and expose the Trump clan for the clear acts of treason they committed in dealing with Russia.
His fate was sealed when, in an outburst of good conscience, Rosenstein appointed Mueller as special prosecutor to the case.

I guess that's one campaign promise Trump did keep... we do have a special prosecutor.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 4777
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: The investigation of Donald Trump

Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:46 pm

Francoflier wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
But why waste time on regular business, read NYT/WP or watch CNN breaking news and throw tantrum whole day.


Funny, you accurately described Trump's behavior.

The multitude of reports leaking from the WH from aides and staff is simply fascinating.

Trump is essentially spending half the day gorging obsessively on cable news, only to lash out randomly on twitter to vent his anger.
He has become completely consumed by the Russian affair. He is described as unstable, prone to fits of rage, and unable to carry out his job.
His lawyers are apparently unable to keep him from making rash public statements, most of which only end up worsening things for him.
He shows all the signs of mental instability and manic depression.

The picture coming out is that of a cornered raccoon.

Not that this would surprise anyone who knew already the kind of person Trump was before he ran for office. It was plain for anyone to see if one had delved into the character a little bit.

On the other side of the equation, the evidence continues to amass against Trump and his clique, and, if you ask me, I have no doubt that Mueller will get to the bottom of the whole affair, and expose the Trump clan for the clear acts of treason they committed in dealing with Russia.
His fate was sealed when, in an outburst of good conscience, Rosenstein appointed Mueller as special prosecutor to the case.

I guess that's one campaign promise Trump did keep... we do have a special prosecutor.


Leaks are coming from Obama era holdovers. Trump's biggest mistake was not firing every one during transition.

Read your own writings. Republicans are doing it by the book. They are the one leading senate/house investigations and Trumps own DOJ appointed Mueller.

Sure Trump is not as slick as Obama when it comes to protocol, but Obama was a lame duck president for seven and one half years.

Even Mueller finds enough evidence, impeachment is a wet dream of HRC supporters.
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