Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Pyrex wrote:The good thing about Trump and Brexit is that, as can be seen from this thread, Germans and French lost all shame and no longer try to hide the fact that the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe. Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
seahawk wrote:Pyrex wrote:The good thing about Trump and Brexit is that, as can be seen from this thread, Germans and French lost all shame and no longer try to hide the fact that the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe. Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
Trusting the Germans always worked out great for the French... oh wait...
Pyrex wrote:the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe.
Pyrex wrote:Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
Dutchy wrote:seahawk wrote:Pyrex wrote:The good thing about Trump and Brexit is that, as can be seen from this thread, Germans and French lost all shame and no longer try to hide the fact that the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe. Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
Trusting the Germans always worked out great for the French... oh wait...
And here we go again, trolling away.....
seahawk wrote:Dutchy wrote:seahawk wrote:Trusting the Germans always worked out great for the French... oh wait...
And here we go again, trolling away.....
To be honest a EU dominated by France and Germany is not the answer to the current problems, it is simply the same construction as NATO, just with the centrepiece changed from the USA to those 2 countries. It is positive when the big powers do not hinder the development of an united Europe, but they must not force it on the smaller countries. If they can come up with ideas that are supported by majority of countries in Europe it is good, but they need to include as many countries as possible. A EU based on the shoulders of France and Germany would be dead in case the voters in those countries decide to make a stupid decision and that is not that unlikely when you look at LePen or the success of the AfD.
Pyrex wrote:The good thing about Trump and Brexit is that, as can be seen from this thread, Germans and French lost all shame and no longer try to hide the fact that the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe. Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
B777LRF wrote:I understand Trump finds it 'bad, very bad' that German companies are selling cars in the US. More cars, it would seem, than US companies do in Europe. Apart from the not so insignificant fact, of course, that GM owns Opel, which sell rather a lot of cars in Germany. But, never mind that, something needs to be done to all those Audi's, BMW's, Merc's and Porsche's!
It couldn't possible have anything to do with the fact that the US3 cars are, by and large, utterly inferior in an international competition and that the German autoindustry, on the other hand, produce the finest cars this planet has on offer? I wonder if a ban would be enough, or if another wall is in need of being built?
salttee wrote:Pyrex wrote:the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe.
ummm, the EU is Europe.Pyrex wrote:Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
Exactly how many English speaking countries are there in Europe?
JJJ wrote:salttee wrote:Exactly how many English speaking countries are there in Europe?
Ireland and Malta are both officially English-speaking countries and in the EU. Both Maltese and Irish are also official EU languages.
So nope, not gonna happen.
JJJ wrote:Ireland and Malta are both officially English-speaking countries and in the EU. Both Maltese and Irish are also official EU languages.
So nope, not gonna happen.
Pyrex wrote:JJJ wrote:salttee wrote:Exactly how many English speaking countries are there in Europe?
Ireland and Malta are both officially English-speaking countries and in the EU. Both Maltese and Irish are also official EU languages.
So nope, not gonna happen.
Not to mention that English is the de facto lingua franca in Europe. Heck, even in Belgium, headquarters to the EU, half the country uses it to communicate with the other half.
MaverickM11 wrote:So if Germany is not our ally, then who is at this point? Besides Saudi Arabia, which Trump railed against until he saw what beautiful gold trimmed palaces they had, with subservient women and a non existent press...
Dutchy wrote:MaverickM11 wrote:So if Germany is not our ally, then who is at this point? Besides Saudi Arabia, which Trump railed against until he saw what beautiful gold trimmed palaces they had, with subservient women and a non existent press...
Russia................. Turkey............
At the very least, two strongmen he admires.
Dutchy wrote:MaverickM11 wrote:So if Germany is not our ally, then who is at this point? Besides Saudi Arabia, which Trump railed against until he saw what beautiful gold trimmed palaces they had, with subservient women and a non existent press...
Russia................. Turkey............
At the very least, two strongmen he admires.
Aesma wrote:With Germany it's only high end stuff, expensive, that people buy on quality (or perceived quality), that's what trading is all about.
slider wrote:I must say I'm not surprised at the reaction by our European friends in this forum--as predictable as ever.
slider wrote:But let me ask you all something: when did it become some political blasphemy for a head of state to overtly say they're going to focus on their own national interests first? This should be the primary emphasis for any nation. What George Washington espoused in his Farewell Address remains as pertinent today as it was then. Trump is giving voice to that (although his delivery is horrid, bombastic and retrograde, and his substance isn't tracking fully to the rhetoric).
slider wrote:
But to the OP's point, if you think Europe is on the right track following Merkel and Macron, you're in denial and have your head in the sand. The Islamic hordes have already invaded, the barbarians are PAST the gate and, unlike Vienna, there's no Charles Martel figure to come in and save the day. It's national suicide by demography and it's going to happen without a fight or without y'all firing a shot. Good luck. Enjoy denial and a slide into irrelevancy.
slider wrote:Trump has given voice to what many Americans feel--that while we value allies and those relationships with key partners around the world, we're no longer in a position to (nor should we) continue to be the policeman for the free West. NATO nations have in fact slid by for too long under the shadow of Pax Americana. It's high time we sit out conflicts, stop having entangling alliances (right now the United States has hundreds of treaties and agreements, dozens of which are in conflict with one another, that pledge military support and response to various partners around the globe---that's wholly unsustainable and untenable.
slider wrote:The EU and pan-European utopia is unrealistic and it has always been that way. The ancient rivalries, the petty jealousies and HUMAN NATURE ITSELF dictate this. That's not to say peace is impossible, not at all, but I will tell you that you cannot squelch a nation's pride, its citizens sense of self. Germany is still dealing with the scars from a war that some of us still remember or are one generation removed from.
slider wrote:So bully for Merkel and you who think she's the leader of the free world. She's not even successful in leading her own nation when you contemplate the immigrant invasion which will change the face of Deutschland. The Dutch are the only ones who seem remotely interested in putting up a fight, along with a solid quarter of French. The rest of Europe should start getting used to Sharia. Adios.
slider wrote:The rest of Europe should start getting used to Sharia. Adios.
slider wrote:unlike Vienna, there's no Charles Martel figure to come in and save the day.
I must say I'm not surprised at the reaction by our European friends in this forum--as predictable as ever.
But let me ask you all something: when did it become some political blasphemy for a head of state to overtly say they're going to focus on their own national interests first? This should be the primary emphasis for any nation. What George Washington espoused in his Farewell Address remains as pertinent today as it was then. Trump is giving voice to that (although his delivery is horrid, bombastic and retrograde, and his substance isn't tracking fully to the rhetoric).
But to the OP's point, if you think Europe is on the right track following Merkel and Macron, you're in denial and have your head in the sand. The Islamic hordes have already invaded, the barbarians are PAST the gate and, unlike Vienna, there's no Charles Martel figure to come in and save the day. It's national suicide by demography and it's going to happen without a fight or without y'all firing a shot. Good luck. Enjoy denial and a slide into irrelevancy.
Trump has given voice to what many Americans feel--that while we value allies and those relationships with key partners around the world, we're no longer in a position to (nor should we) continue to be the policeman for the free West. NATO nations have in fact slid by for too long under the shadow of Pax Americana. It's high time we sit out conflicts, stop having entangling alliances (right now the United States has hundreds of treaties and agreements, dozens of which are in conflict with one another, that pledge military support and response to various partners around the globe---that's wholly unsustainable and untenable.
The EU and pan-European utopia is unrealistic and it has always been that way. The ancient rivalries, the petty jealousies and HUMAN NATURE ITSELF dictate this. That's not to say peace is impossible, not at all, but I will tell you that you cannot squelch a nation's pride, its citizens sense of self. Germany is still dealing with the scars from a war that some of us still remember or are one generation removed from.
So bully for Merkel and you who think she's the leader of the free world. She's not even successful in leading her own nation when you contemplate the immigrant invasion which will change the face of Deutschland. The Dutch are the only ones who seem remotely interested in putting up a fight, along with a solid quarter of French. The rest of Europe should start getting used to Sharia. Adios.
When you make posting like this, you should start of with "I have no clue what I am talking about" and safe everybody his time.
I think EU countries should cancel the NNPT and set up its own nuclear deterrent force. Nukes are cheap. Europe could defend itself, Trump his happy, labour force isn't stuck in non-productive jobs (=military).
You're missing the point. Merkel is basically saying that they can no longer TRUST the US,
The good thing about Trump and Brexit is that, as can be seen from this thread, Germans and French lost all shame and no longer try to hide the fact that the EU has all along been about extending their hegemony over Europe. Heck, lapdog Juncker even wants to have English stop being an official language of the EU.
What are you talking about?
LOT767301ER wrote:Regardless of opinion Trump is far less of a danger to the future of Europe than the immigration policies single handedly brewed up by a select few in Western Europe with Germany at the head of it.
Whether Trump decides to close down a base or in some hypothetical world not send a warship to the Med is statistically far and away less probable then a dozen more terrorist attacks in major European cities because of what their own politicians have done.
Just take for example this guy that just posted above me, he actually believes that people directly to the east, NE and SE of his country trust Angela Merkel, who is viewed as a treasonous individual for letting in what equates to an invading force with open arms and the rest of Germany which has pretty much been pillaging half of Europe for the last 1000 years should be trusted. With the French track record of helping countries that it had treaties with in the 20th century and Germanys history I'd rather trust a 7th grade chemistry student in a Tuscaloosa, AL high school to find the cure for cancer than anything coming from Berlin.
Pure comedy.
When you make posting like this, you should start of with "I have no clue what I am talking about" and safe everybody his time.
I think EU countries should cancel the NNPT and set up its own nuclear deterrent force. Nukes are cheap. Europe could defend itself, Trump his happy, labour force isn't stuck in non-productive jobs (=military).
You cant even fly a plane at midnight into your airports
because your fellow citizens care more about some butterfly pollinating a forget-me-not and you think you will be successful in setting up a nuclear deterrent force? You should start your posts with "Forewarning - I live in a Disney movie!"
Whooptie-do dude, Angela has got Donald beat in the trust factor. She is another German leader in a long line since the 1960s, and one of the worst in recent memory
who has brought a security nightmare onto all of Europe.
Watch how my reply just gets derided by the same 6 or 7 people from those countries, it's more predictable than that of a typical co-worker who goes to Subway every day and orders the same exact turkey on white with EZ lettuce.
However, unlike before where the invasion came by force this one was self-invited so the motivation to help will be far less.
But the data suggest that the refugees tend to be better-behaved than the typical German. Even if you presume that refugee-related crime is underreported for political reasons, we could find no evidence in German media reports that the country warrants Trump's riddled-with-crime characterization.
Right, and the US President showing no commitment whatsoever to NATO article 5 isn´t a few orders or magnitude more important than closing down a base or not sending a warship.
LOT767301ER wrote:I dont give a crap about one's words, I care about what someone does. There is far more precedence in the US saying its going to stay out of it and bailing someone in Europe out than the French saying that they will help and yet they sit around and watch whole swathes of Europe fall.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... me-thanks/
OMG.. an Invasion...
Yet, the only time Article 5 was activated all NATO partners followed the US into a mission outside the territory of NATO - aka Afghanistan.
seahawk wrote:Imho the big problem is that Trump things he can order other countries around. The whole defence spending thing was a non topic, as the partners already agreed to spent more and reach 2% GDP by 2024 the latest. Germany just announced to bring back 200 MBTs and a whole heavy division in a bid to improve the security of the Eastern border of NATO.
So instead of supporting the positive steps taken, Trump decides to question the stability and future of NATO. Bullying other states around is rarely working and rarely does it help to have stable relationship. It would be funny to see Germany spending 3% GDP on defence by 2024, but only because NATO is gone and a new EU only organisation has taken over.
seahawk wrote:Imho it is totally correct to single out Germany, as they are unwilling to shoulder their responsibility but are happy exploiting the trade advantage they enjoy.
slider wrote:It's national suicide by demography and it's going to happen without a fight or without y'all firing a shot. Good luck. Enjoy denial and a slide into irrelevancy.
BobPatterson wrote:To see that many people fail to understand that Europe has been and is now being invaded from the south boggles the mind. Europe is now experiencing what the USA has been going through.
LOT767301ER wrote:I dont really want to make sweeping generalizations like that as there are many ways to gauge NATOs importance to the US. What Trump seems to not understand, at least judging by his words is that some dollars need to be spent on allies because they have strategic value. However, where he is right perhaps by chance or not is the fact that a large swathe of NATO members are not spending enough on the military. Whether, or rather how much, the US taxpayer has to pay for those shortfalls is a completely different discussion. What we do know is that the US has to constantly prop up NATOs strategic capabilities either with its own forces or via de-facto donations.
mercure1 wrote:Europe is a sinking ship and leaders like Merkel are pulling at straws to remain relevant on the world stage.
mercure1 wrote:Donald Rumsfeld had it right in 2003 with his remark regarding "old Europe".
mercure1 wrote:The world has moved on, and Europes place is becoming ever diminished politically, economically and morally.
mercure1 wrote:Its almost an echo chamber here already with the Eurocrats talking to themselves in circles.
Europe expands as the old comintern countries gain their footing, while the US declines in significance; that's the reality.
Actually that is the relevant discussion. How much of that 3,something% of the US GDP spent on military spending is America's contribution to a better and more free world and how much is the result of a bloated economic/military complex with an ever growing top brass getting banana republic dictator perks and the revolving door between the military and the Lockheed-Martins of the world.
All over the world militaries are getting leaner and better at specific jobs. Maybe it's time the US learns to take on those challenges like everyone else instead of relying on all those 3star+ generals basically working as full-time lobbyists to keep the money pipeline open.
And I won't get into the partisan discussions on reserve vs National Guard, why doesn't the Navy swallow the Coast Guard or the endless squabbling between army, marines and air force for missions and resources.
Thing with the US is they don't manage anything without foreign "help" ( either war spoils, inducted workforce or spied off IP ).
As a society the system is a third world scavenger culture mixed in with Manchester capitalism...
Fed by fresh still productive foreign educated immigrants and a full size previously "unused" continent that can be robbed of resources.