Fatal blasts at Manchester Arena

BlueberryWheats · Mon May 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Well... this one's rather close to home for me! Large explosion at the Manchester Arena.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886

Confirmed fatalities, details still coming out. And targeting an Ariana Grande show? It's just sick, it'll all be young kids in attendance.

pvjin · Mon May 22, 2017 11:08 pm

RIP to all the victims. Hopefully European leaders will some day start doing something serious to stop the spread of radical Islam.

alberchico · Mon May 22, 2017 11:27 pm

With all the security that these large events have, how the hell would you smuggle bombs in ???

RIP to the poor souls who lost their lives

UltimoTiger777 · Mon May 22, 2017 11:37 pm

One political hack claiming it's a nail bomb:

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/ ... 2389857281

NIKV69 · Mon May 22, 2017 11:46 pm

I am not seeing smoke and injuries so far support stampede injuries and not shrapnel.

UltimoTiger777 · Mon May 22, 2017 11:47 pm

alberchico wrote:
With all the security that these large events have, how the hell would you smuggle bombs in ???

RIP to the poor souls who lost their lives

Reports are claiming the bomb was in the foyer area. I imagine that's before the security screening.

It's been a long time since I've been to the arena so I don't know the arrangements. I was supposed to go to see KISS next Tuesday there. The fact this has happened a week before has really spooked me. (Yes, I know my feelings don't really mean very much compared to the awful things the victims families are going through).

flymia · Mon May 22, 2017 11:50 pm

Just not enough information out right now. I am sure plenty will come in the next couple of hours. What seems clear is that this occurred outside the arena, not inside. Wonder how the timing worked. Was it while the show was letting people out?

Just have to hope for the best, but reports of fatalities already makes it hard to.

NIKV69 · Mon May 22, 2017 11:55 pm

flymia wrote:
Just not enough information out right now. I am sure plenty will come in the next couple of hours. What seems clear is that this occurred outside the arena, not inside. Wonder how the timing worked. Was it while the show was letting people out?

Just have to hope for the best, but reports of fatalities already makes it hard to.

It would be nice for Police to brief us. The photos are showing orthopedic injuries not blast injuries.

alberchico · Tue May 23, 2017 12:05 am

According to a Reddit thread, people who were there are reporting bringing bags in that weren't checked.

Looks like they were doing spot checks, meaning that some people were picked at random and some went on through without anyone inspecting them.

flymia · Tue May 23, 2017 12:06 am

NIKV69 wrote:
flymia wrote:
Just not enough information out right now. I am sure plenty will come in the next couple of hours. What seems clear is that this occurred outside the arena, not inside. Wonder how the timing worked. Was it while the show was letting people out?

Just have to hope for the best, but reports of fatalities already makes it hard to.

It would be nice for Police to brief us. The photos are showing orthopedic injuries not blast injuries.

What photos have you seen. While I don't think its likely, there is always the possibility that something did blast and the panic caused injuries and even deaths. There are some reports have an pretty powerful blast though, that knocked people down, and other reports of shrapnel injuries, which would indicate an actual explosion of something not just a loud bang.

NIKV69 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:14 am

flymia wrote:
What photos have you seen. While I don't think its likely, there is always the possibility that something did blast and the panic caused injuries and even deaths. There are some reports have an pretty powerful blast though, that knocked people down, and other reports of shrapnel injuries, which would indicate an actual explosion of something not just a loud bang.

Whatever the case it didn't happen inside which is confusing as from a terrorist standpoint.

KLDC10 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:18 am

Per Fox News, via Sky News; 19 confirmed dead at this time.

UltimoTiger777 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:18 am

https://twitter.com/gmpolice/status/866 ... 21/photo/1

Channex757 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:19 am

Bit crazy here tonight, blue lights flying about up the main roads. I'm about 2 miles away. The major trauma centres are all on high alert and taking casualties, and the Holiday Inn near the arena has a large number of children separated from their families.

This was an attack on a concert with a lot of Young Adults and accompanied minors. The local info mills are saying up to 23 dead and it was a pressure cooker bomb (like the one in Boston).

RIP to those who have lost their lives in my home city. Manchester grieves for you tonight.

alberchico · Tue May 23, 2017 12:26 am

Is it possible that a stampede could have caused a great deal of those 19 deaths ?

Channex757 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:35 am

Second explosion just gone off. Could be a controlled explosion as bomb disposal crews were on scene.

Update: seems it was. Explosion went off and the BBC was reporting live down the road. Cathedral Gardens was mentioned.

UltimoTiger777 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:37 am

Channex757 wrote:
Second explosion just gone off. Could be a controlled explosion as bomb disposal crews were on scene.

Controlled explosion according to GMP

https://twitter.com/gmpolice/status/866813662505447424

ltbewr · Tue May 23, 2017 12:39 am

I would note that Ariana Grande is a USA citizen, well known in the USA and Europe, and with Trump in Israel and soon in Europe, this may have been intended to be a targeting a symbol of the USA. It is important to note as others have that many injuries could be from trampling or falls in an escape from the arena. It was apparently a full house in a closed arena, somewhere above 10,000 people.

Channex757 · Tue May 23, 2017 12:57 am

ltbewr wrote:
I would note that Ariana Grande is a USA citizen, well known in the USA and Europe, and with Trump in Israel and soon in Europe, this may have been intended to be a targeting a symbol of the USA. It is important to note as others have that many injuries could be from trampling or falls in an escape from the arena. It was apparently a full house in a closed arena, somewhere above 10,000 people.

That's a bit of a stretch. Trump is thousands of miles away from Manchester and there are a lot more visible American targets that could have been hit. London for instance has huge numbers of US visitors, many high profile.

So far the GMP and British Transport Police (the Arena shares a site with a large railway station) are saying 19 deaths and 50+ injuries. Many injuries will be minor and not counted as yet. Lots of shrapnel injuries reported

afcjets · Tue May 23, 2017 1:26 am

Channex757 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I would note that Ariana Grande is a USA citizen, well known in the USA and Europe, and with Trump in Israel and soon in Europe, this may have been intended to be a targeting a symbol of the USA. It is important to note as others have that many injuries could be from trampling or falls in an escape from the arena. It was apparently a full house in a closed arena, somewhere above 10,000 people.

That's a bit of a stretch. Trump is thousands of miles away from Manchester and there are a lot more visible American targets that could have been hit. London for instance has huge numbers of US visitors, many high profile.

No it's not, nor is it a bit of stretch to say it is radical Islamic terrorism. Trump has already tweeted it is also not a coincidence today is the anniversary of when an Islamic terrorist killed the cop in the streets of London. Since Ariana Grande is an American and since the target was kids, Trump will retaliate in a big way.

johns624 · Tue May 23, 2017 1:41 am

afcjets wrote:
Since Ariana Grande is an American and since the target was kids, Trump will retaliate in a big way.

Against who exactly?

afcjets · Tue May 23, 2017 1:59 am

ISIS if they are behind it. Or just because.

alberchico · Tue May 23, 2017 2:01 am

And take a look at this a$$wipe. No sympathy if he loses his job over this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -show.html

sierrakilo44 · Tue May 23, 2017 2:13 am

afcjets wrote:

No it's not, nor is it a bit of stretch to say it is radical Islamic terrorism. Trump has already tweeted it is also not a coincidence today is the anniversary of when an Islamic terrorist killed the cop in the streets of London. Since Ariana Grande is an American and since the target was kids, Trump will retaliate in a big way.

And it will be a great excuse to deviate attention away from his current domestic scandals. I'd expect an instant increase in bombing in Syria and Iraq, and probably more military spending and an increase in undercover operations. And I wouldn't be surprised if this is used as a pretext to put ground troops into multiple countries.

afcjets · Tue May 23, 2017 2:17 am

you mean domestic like Russia?

WarRI1 · Tue May 23, 2017 2:26 am

Certainly a tragedy, but it happened in Great Britain, I see no valid reason for us to do anything but help with any intel we might have and mourn for our British friends. We are certainly not going to escalate any military actions over this.

ThePointblank · Tue May 23, 2017 3:18 am

alberchico wrote:
According to a Reddit thread, people who were there are reporting bringing bags in that weren't checked.

Looks like they were doing spot checks, meaning that some people were picked at random and some went on through without anyone inspecting them.

That doesn't sound like a good security plan; at my two local arenas (Rogers Arena and BC Place Stadium), we have much more regular and through security screening before one can enter; large bags are banned, smaller bags and purses are checked, and at Rogers Arena, you walk through a metal detector; BC Place has a security guard pat you down. And this is done for every event held, from concerts to sports games.

LAX772LR · Tue May 23, 2017 3:21 am

NIKV69 wrote:
from a terrorist standpoint.

A term that so many media seem to be waiting to use, until apparently whether they figure out if the perpetrator is Islamic or not....

EA CO AS · Tue May 23, 2017 4:11 am

LAX772LR wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
from a terrorist standpoint.

A term that so many media seem to be waiting to use, until apparently whether they figure out if the perpetrator is Islamic or not....

So only Muslims can be terrorists?

LAX772LR · Tue May 23, 2017 4:41 am

EA CO AS wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
from a terrorist standpoint.

A term that so many media seem to be waiting to use, until apparently whether they figure out if the perpetrator is Islamic or not....

So only Muslims can be terrorists?

alberchico · Tue May 23, 2017 4:55 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA4jJqAw7IM

This is an example of what a joke it is to have security procedures and have personnel too lazy to follow them....

JannEejit · Tue May 23, 2017 5:46 am

So sounding like a suicide bomber in the lobby as the concert goers were leaving the show, most of whom were undoubtedly young and teenage girls and their parents or guardians. Some truly despicable people in this world today...

Aesma · Tue May 23, 2017 5:53 am

Condolences to the family and friends of those affected.

I often go to concerts so this is always hard. I went to the Bataclan a few months before the attack there, and went again early this year, in part as my response to the attacks. I invited my siblings and it was a great evening, I just learned that before coming my brother had gone to register himself as the father of his future child (born last week), so I guess we're really changing our way of life because of these attacks.

For the ones who mentioned Trump, he was just in Saudi Arabia kissing asses. Saudi Arabia is the place from which all this Sunni extremism comes from. They live by it and they spread it with unlimited money. But I guess this is a bit too complicated for the man-child.

vrbarreto · Tue May 23, 2017 5:58 am

ThePointblank wrote:
alberchico wrote:
According to a Reddit thread, people who were there are reporting bringing bags in that weren't checked.

Looks like they were doing spot checks, meaning that some people were picked at random and some went on through without anyone inspecting them.

That doesn't sound like a good security plan; at my two local arenas (Rogers Arena and BC Place Stadium), we have much more regular and through security screening before one can enter; large bags are banned, smaller bags and purses are checked, and at Rogers Arena, you walk through a metal detector; BC Place has a security guard pat you down. And this is done for every event held, from concerts to sports games.

It's quite usual.

Latest is that it was a suicide bomber and a man who died in the explosion and is now burning in hell.. Utter wanker. RIP to the victims.

Going back to security checks they are usually just spot checks. Even in high profile targets like the museums in London.

I suspect that this is radical Islam striking again.. Off course we are best friends with its prime sponsor.

There is a lot of cctv in Manchester city Centre so hopefully they will be able to get a better picture.

Again rip to the victims and speedy recovery to the wounded..

Bigger police presence in London today.

DIRECTFLT · Tue May 23, 2017 6:05 am

The suicide bomber did not have to go through any security of any kind. The bomber was waiting in a public space between the Arena and the train station.

Witnesses told of nuts and bolts tearing into young gig-goers when the blast was detonated in the foyer area between the arena and the next-door Victoria station just after the Ariana Grande performance ended.

One image captured bodies of the dead and injured lying in an area between the arena and the next-door Victoria station, which had been packed with people leaving the venue as the gig wound down.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4531940/Emergency-services-rush-Manchester-Arena.html#ixzz4hsWgrJfT

Why can't more be done to not even allow social media on the internet that promotes and glorifys jihad???

Dahlgardo · Tue May 23, 2017 7:31 am

Business as usual I guess...

The attacker apparently made a short video before the attack explaining why he did it.

Who would have guessed.

https://twitter.com/Nxvxskxt/status/866803708037910529/video/1

vrbarreto · Tue May 23, 2017 9:12 am

It's almost impossible for 'social media' to actively shut down the pages quickly.. Many millions of tweets and facebook posts are done every day.. They rely on people to report things so they can be taken down.. Pretty difficult if there is a closed group.. Also it's no use looking for specific words as these will appear in news posts for example. Also some of the videos on twitter are obviously fake.

GDB · Tue May 23, 2017 10:19 am

22 confirmed dead and some still unaccounted for.
Witnesses say the area after the blast had bolts and similar all over the place, suggestive of a suicide bomber which the police have confirmed. Since 7/7 most attacks, or attempted ones have been low tech and have almost always been prevented. The exception being in London in March, by a man with a history of violence going back way further than his 'conversion' to Islamism. In recent weeks several series of arrests have been made mostly but not exclusively in London, a female suspect being shot and injured during one raid.

This venue in Manchester is the largest of it's kind in Europe, the bomb was not detonated inside but as others have stated, outside in a public space just when large numbers were leaving the concert, in many cases being met by their parents.
You have not been able to take bags into venues without being searched for a very long time, from back when the IRA were letting off bombs, so the 1970's in effect.

The big question now is did the bomber act alone? Once ID'd we'll know more. (One effect of wearing a suicide bomb vest - if that is what he was doing - will have been to remove his head from his body).
If the security services start raids and arrests linked to this awful attack we'll know it wasn't a 'lone wolf'.

But there is only so much you can do with security before you let them win in effect. I mentioned the IRA before, in 1974 they started blowing up pubs on the mainland, 22 killed in Birmingham and another 5 in Guilford, but you couldn't start searching everyone going in and out of a pub.
So the paradox is that big, high profile targets like the Manchester Arena are both easier to protect against someone trying to bring a bomb in but harder outside due to there sheer size and numbers of people involved.

casinterest · Tue May 23, 2017 10:20 am

My condolences to the families and friends of those affected by this tragedy. Their aren't many words to help in their shock and grief over this senseless act that has taken lives and wounded so many.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The suicide bomber did not have to go through any security of any kind. The bomber was waiting in a public space between the Arena and the train station.

This is the part no one can plan for, is that these individuals have learned that they can take advantage of public squeeze points. There is no need to go into a secure location on their part.

I am not sure how you can ever defend against something like this. Everyone will look back and find clues that are obvious in hindsight, but not obvious prior. People that commit these acts that kill multiple people definitely suffer from mental and ideological issues. They all seem to fly under the radar until it is too late. Some do it for religious reasons, some do it for hate, some do it while on drugs. The German wings pilot, Dylan Root, the Paris attacks, the London attacks, the New York driver, the Nice attacker. All of it winds up being the same. Innocent people killed due to deranged people, that just don't really care about others lives.

dtw2hyd · Tue May 23, 2017 10:21 am

What kind of deranged idiot targets young kids.

Channex757 · Tue May 23, 2017 10:33 am

afcjets wrote:
No it's not, nor is it a bit of stretch to say it is radical Islamic terrorism. Trump has already tweeted it is also not a coincidence today is the anniversary of when an Islamic terrorist killed the cop in the streets of London. Since Ariana Grande is an American and since the target was kids, Trump will retaliate in a big way.

Yes it is a stretch. Not everything is about Trump and the USA.

We have our own batch of home-grown nutjobs, and this was probably done by some comedy beard wearing imbecile from Failsworth or Longsight instead of a sword-wielding warrior of Daesh from Syria's battlefield.

Not that there are many of those around Manchester as they tend to come back either dead or with their tail between their legs.

This is likely a lone wolf attack, just as Glasgow Airport was a bungled airport atrocity where the only people who were horribly mutilated were the two would-be bombers.

oly720man · Tue May 23, 2017 10:50 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
What kind of deranged idiot targets young kids.

Past experience would suggest the sort who is brainwashed into believing that is the key to a better next life.

Reports in Manchester are that the perpetrator may be known to the police (11:08) and some arrests have been made this morning (11:36), So he must have been on somebody's radar.

(times) in the timeline here

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... k-13075807

GDB · Tue May 23, 2017 11:03 am

In breaking news Police have sealed off a large shopping centre in Manchester, some reports of people hearing 'shots'. Too early to say if this is linked.
The PM says the identity of the attacker is thought to be known. (Which might mean 'was on the security services radar').

A lone wolf does seem unlikely at this stage, as this report points out;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-40012208

On a hard to find but positive note, in the aftermath of the attack, many who were stranded were taken home by cab drivers who switched their meters off, shelter provided by both hotels and home owners and the call for blood donors was answered so well that people had to be turned away eventually.

I don't think this has anything to do with the election (as in timing) since if this is an attack by a group it would have been in the planning long before the GE announcement.
The 7/7 attackers for over a year in their case.

Channex757 · Tue May 23, 2017 11:12 am

More breaking news...GMP have already made their first arrest in connection with the bombing. A 23 year old man from South Manchester is in custody.

scbriml · Tue May 23, 2017 11:13 am

NIKV69 wrote:
I am not seeing smoke and injuries so far support stampede injuries and not shrapnel.

NIKV69 wrote:
It would be nice for Police to brief us. The photos are showing orthopedic injuries not blast injuries.

Do you need to see the shredded bodies? 22 dead and 59 injured, some very seriously.

So soon after the incident, while the police are still assessing the situation, counting the dead and looking for survivors, you expect a detailed briefing? :banghead:

alberchico wrote:
Is it possible that a stampede could have caused a great deal of those 19 deaths ?

No evidence that any of the deaths were due to anything other than the bomb.

alberchico wrote:
This is an example of what a joke it is to have security procedures and have personnel too lazy to follow them....

We've all seen ineffectual security, but this happened in a public space outside the arena and after the event. He didn't smuggle his bomb into the event.

afcjets wrote:
Since Ariana Grande is an American and since the target was kids, Trump will retaliate in a big way.

At best he'll tweet that this was "one bad hombre". :sarcastic:

dtw2hyd wrote:
What kind of deranged idiot targets young kids.

The aim is to terrorise, they don't think like normal people.

GDB · Tue May 23, 2017 11:20 am

The GMP have re-opened the shopping centre after that alert, an arrest made there is now not thought to be connected with the attack, so unlike the arrest of the 23 year old in another part of the city.

First victim named, a 18 year old girl, who had met the singer, as she was pictured with her on the news.

GDB · Tue May 23, 2017 12:35 pm

That fake tweet wasn't funny, for one the subject does parody all by himself but what Trump did say, while rather 'Trumpish' calling the attacker and those like him 'losers' is often true, when their history is revealed.

In the real world, a second victim named, a girl aged 8.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-40010124

330west · Tue May 23, 2017 12:59 pm

scbriml wrote:
At best he'll tweet that this was "one bad hombre".

Close ... 'evil losers'. He has the the vocabulary of a ninth grader, not a graduate of Penn(or even a Penn State frat bro).

Danfearn77 · Tue May 23, 2017 1:10 pm

Sickening. How anyone can do this is beyond any comprehension. I see IS have claimed responsibility, inevitably I suppose. Almost impossible to stop every attack especially something like this.

casinterest · Tue May 23, 2017 1:18 pm

GDB wrote:
In breaking news Police have sealed off a large shopping centre in Manchester, some reports of people hearing 'shots'. Too early to say if this is linked.
The PM says the identity of the attacker is thought to be known. (Which might mean 'was on the security services radar').

A lone wolf does seem unlikely at this stage, as this report points out;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-40012208

The attack was carried out by one person more than likely. It doesn't mean that their wasn't help in making the bomb or financing it. As ISIS has taken the credit, as they always do, we will have to dig in and see if this was a more organized attack, or a just a lone wolf attack with unaffiliated aid.

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